Usenet providers

Gary McGath

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Nov 7, 2023, 6:25:11 AM11/7/23

to

I've been using Eternal September as my Usenet provider out of sheer
inertia. It's clearly dying, though, becoming more like Eternal Wait.
Sometimes it takes several tries to load a message.

Eternal September relies on donations (and I send it money
occasionally), so it's probably starved for cash. I've looked at
various paid Usenet providers, with an eye to a low price since I don't
use Usenet all that much and never download big attachments. Pure
Usenet, a Netherlands-based service, looks the best from a pricing
standpoint, and it gets decent reviews.

https://www.pureusenet.nl

I'm open to other suggestions. I connect to the Internet through
T-Mobile, which apparently has never heard of Usenet.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

Lee Gold

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Nov 7, 2023, 6:39:06 AM11/7/23

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On 11/7/2023 3:24 AM, Gary McGath wrote:
> I've been using Eternal September as my Usenet provider out of sheer
> inertia. It's clearly dying, though, becoming more like Eternal Wait.
> Sometimes it takes several tries to load a message.

I haven't had problems using it to load a new message from me, but I
do have to click an old message to get it to show new messages.

>
> Eternal September relies on donations (and I send it money
> occasionally), so it's probably starved for cash. I've looked at
> various paid Usenet providers, with an eye to a low price since I don't
> use Usenet all that much and never download big attachments. Pure
> Usenet, a Netherlands-based service, looks the best from a pricing
> standpoint, and it gets decent reviews.
>
> https://www.pureusenet.nl
>
> I'm open to other suggestions. I connect to the Internet through
> T-Mobile, which apparently has never heard of Usenet.
>

Thanks for the information.

--Lee

Blueshirt

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Nov 7, 2023, 10:29:34 AM11/7/23

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https://news.individual.net/

€10 for the year

The Doctor

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Nov 7, 2023, 10:52:13 AM11/7/23

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In article <uid6qk$vplf$1...@dont-email.me>,

Have a llok at nk.ca . The only caveat is that you have to VPN here.

>--
>Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nk.ca Ici doc...@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Suffering will continue until we stop believing lies. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

Arthur T.

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Nov 7, 2023, 11:43:17 AM11/7/23

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In Message-ID:<uid6qk$vplf$1...@dont-email.me>,

Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:

>use Usenet all that much and never download big attachments. Pure
>Usenet, a Netherlands-based service, looks the best from a pricing
>standpoint, and it gets decent reviews.
>
>https://www.pureusenet.nl
>
>I'm open to other suggestions.

I've been happy with Astraweb <https://www.astraweb.com/>. They have
block accounts. 10+ years ago I paid $25 for 180 GB. I recently had
to buy another block. But that one-time fee of $25 was all I paid
them for those 10 years. You could also go cheaper and pay only $10
for 25GB.

They have good retention, and I don't see some of the spam others do,
though some does get through their filters.

Note: You can't sign up without allowing scripting and some cookies.

--
Arthur T. - ar23hur "at" pobox "dot" com

Jay E. Morris

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Nov 7, 2023, 11:46:45 AM11/7/23

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That's strange. I've had absolutely no problem with ES. I know Ray has
updated hardware this year and recently split it between two servers,
one for peering and the other for users IIRC. Evidently it developed
there was some problem with running both on one. He his also working
hard on spam filtering.

I was having some problems some months back but I discovered it was TB
related.

Gary McGath

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Nov 7, 2023, 1:15:40 PM11/7/23

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On 11/7/23 11:43 AM, Arthur T. wrote:

> I've been happy with Astraweb <https://www.astraweb.com/>. They have
> block accounts. 10+ years ago I paid $25 for 180 GB. I recently had
> to buy another block. But that one-time fee of $25 was all I paid
> them for those 10 years. You could also go cheaper and pay only $10
> for 25GB.

I'm afraid I don't understand block accounts. 25GB of what?

> They have good retention, and I don't see some of the spam others do,
> though some does get through their filters.
>
> Note: You can't sign up without allowing scripting and some cookies.

I've always accessed Usenet through a client app, currently Thunderbird.
Does that mean Astraweb allows only Web access?

Jay E. Morris

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Nov 7, 2023, 1:27:05 PM11/7/23

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The block is the amount of data passed. If you do only text based groups
then, as Arthur said, 180 GB should last for a considerable time. 25 GB
a few years maybe.

You need scripting and cookies on just to sign up through a web browser.

Arthur T.

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Nov 7, 2023, 9:45:02 PM11/7/23

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In Message-ID:<uidvhm$14gn2$1...@epsilon3.eternal-september.org>,

Jay interpreted what I said correctly. But for just text, 25 GB is
likely to last a lifetime.

And, as my headers show, I access Usenet via Forte Agent. I shudder
at the idea of a Web interface.

Blueshirt

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Nov 8, 2023, 9:19:29 AM11/8/23

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Arthur T. wrote:

> In Message-ID:<uidvhm$14gn2$1...@epsilon3.eternal-september.org>,
> "Jay E. Morris" <mor...@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:
> >
> > The block is the amount of data passed. If you do only text based
> > groups then, as Arthur said, 180 GB should last for a considerable
> > time. 25 GB a few years maybe.
> >
> > You need scripting and cookies on just to sign up through a web
> > browser.
>
> Jay interpreted what I said correctly. But for just text, 25 GB is
> likely to last a lifetime.

If you are just using Usenet for text newsgroups something like a 100 GB
block could even outlive the Usenet provider!

> And, as my headers show, I access Usenet via Forte Agent. I shudder
> at the idea of a Web interface.

The Devil's own invention!

Keith F. Lynch

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Nov 8, 2023, 9:24:44 PM11/8/23

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Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:

> Arthur T. wrote:
>> And, as my headers show, I access Usenet via Forte Agent.
>> I shudder at the idea of a Web interface.

> The Devil's own invention!

The Web is an important app on the Internet. But it's true that it's
far from the whole of the net. I'm annoyed when people use the words
"Internet" and "Web" interchangably. And baffled when more and more
non-Web parts of the Internet are shoehorned into the Web. It's like
figuring out how to abandon most of your house and do everything in
the bathroom. Why?
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Jay E. Morris

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Nov 8, 2023, 10:29:20 PM11/8/23

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Yeah, don't know what I was thinking there.

Unless there's a screw up on their spam filters and they let Google
Groups postings through. Then 180GB is about 2 days.

Paul Rubin

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Nov 8, 2023, 10:29:23 PM11/8/23

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Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> writes:
> I'm afraid I don't understand block accounts. 25GB of what?

25GB of total data transferred. The main body of Usenet traffic these
days, unfortunately, is broadcasted warez, pirated movies, and pr0n. So
you can burn up a lot of transit that way. For text newsgroups 25GB is
nearly infinite.

Charles Packer

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Nov 9, 2023, 3:15:59 AM11/9/23

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On Thu, 09 Nov 2023 02:24:41 +0000, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Arthur T. wrote:
>>> And, as my headers show, I access Usenet via Forte Agent.
>>> I shudder at the idea of a Web interface.
>
>> The Devil's own invention!
>
> The Web is an important app on the Internet. But it's true that it's
> far from the whole of the net. I'm annoyed when people use the words
> "Internet" and "Web" interchangably. And baffled when more and more
> non-Web parts of the Internet are shoehorned into the Web. It's like
> figuring out how to abandon most of your house and do everything in the
> bathroom. Why?

Journalists equate social media with the internet, which is just
about as bad.

Gary McGath

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Nov 9, 2023, 12:22:37 PM11/9/23

to

On 11/8/23 9:24 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Arthur T. wrote:
>>> And, as my headers show, I access Usenet via Forte Agent.
>>> I shudder at the idea of a Web interface.
>
>> The Devil's own invention!
>
> The Web is an important app on the Internet. But it's true that it's
> far from the whole of the net. I'm annoyed when people use the words
> "Internet" and "Web" interchangably. And baffled when more and more
> non-Web parts of the Internet are shoehorned into the Web. It's like
> figuring out how to abandon most of your house and do everything in
> the bathroom. Why?

On mobile devices, we have the opposite trend, where you're supposed to
get a separate app for every business you deal with. That's worse, since
you don't know whether they're competently written or bother with secure
connections. I'm aware of your complaints about constant bug fix
releases, but I'd much rather rely on any major Web browser than on an
application which some retailer hired a random developer to write and
never gets its bugs fixed at all.

Jay E. Morris

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Nov 9, 2023, 4:16:00 PM11/9/23

to

On 11/8/2023 8:24 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Arthur T. wrote:
>>> And, as my headers show, I access Usenet via Forte Agent.
>>> I shudder at the idea of a Web interface.
>
>> The Devil's own invention!
>
> The Web is an important app on the Internet. But it's true that it's
> far from the whole of the net. I'm annoyed when people use the words
> "Internet" and "Web" interchangably. And baffled when more and more
> non-Web parts of the Internet are shoehorned into the Web. It's like
> figuring out how to abandon most of your house and do everything in
> the bathroom. Why?

I'm surprised anymore when anyone (under, say, 50) even references the
internet. The younglings grew up only knowing the web and if they even
think about the internet they think it's some small, vague part of the web.

There are exceptions of course.

Keith F. Lynch

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Nov 9, 2023, 7:47:39 PM11/9/23

to

Jay E. Morris <mor...@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:

> I'm surprised anymore when anyone (under, say, 50) even references
> the internet. The younglings grew up only knowing the web and if
> they even think about the internet they think it's some small, vague
> part of the web.

Change 50 to 30 or 40 and you may be right. The Web only became a
sigfificant part of the Internet in 1993. So someone who is 50 now
was 20 then.

Keith F. Lynch

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Nov 9, 2023, 8:22:10 PM11/9/23

to

Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
> On mobile devices, we have the opposite trend, where you're supposed
> to get a separate app for every business you deal with. That's
> worse, since you don't know whether they're competently written or
> bother with secure connections.

If that's a requirement, it sounds like it's guaranteed to drive away
at least half the potential customers.

> I'm aware of your complaints about constant bug fix releases, but
> I'd much rather rely on any major Web browser than on an application
> which some retailer hired a random developer to write and never gets
> its bugs fixed at all.

I'd much rather rely on code that's written to be free of security
bugs in the first place. After the tenth urgent security update to
a piece of software, I lose all confidence that there won't be an
eleventh, i.e. that *this* time they finally found and fixed all
the bugs. That would be like thinking that the lastest exoneration
https://wtop.com/national/2023/11/california-man-whos-spent-25-years-in-prison-for-murder-he-didnt-commit-has-conviction-overturned/
means that every innocent person in prison has finally been freed.

If I was found to have written something with multiple security bugs,
I would have concluded that I was in the wrong line of work, and left
software development to people who were more competent.

Keith F. Lynch

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Nov 9, 2023, 10:07:09 PM11/9/23

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Charles Packer <mai...@cpacker.org> wrote:

> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> I'm annoyed when people use the words "Internet" and "Web"
>> interchangably. And baffled when more and more non-Web parts of
>> the Internet are shoehorned into the Web. It's like figuring
>> out how to abandon most of your house and do everything in the
>> bathroom. Why?

> Journalists equate social media with the internet, which is just
> about as bad.

That's even worse. If someone wants to argue that they prefer the
return of walled gardens to the brief golden age of the open (no
censorship) Internet, I'll listen. But when Usenet, email lists,
etc., are just down the memory hole...

Which reminds me that I sometimes run into someone in person who used
to be active in rasff, but suddenly disappeared one day. When I ask
them why they left, they express surprise that Usenet is still around.
They used Usenet every day, but one day they suddenly just assumed it
had ceased to exist?

Maybe so. After all, there are TV ads for beef (or were last time I
watched over-the-air TV, which has been a while). Forgetting that
Usenet exists is no stranger than forgetting that beef exists. Or,
in both cases, that it once existed but had suddenly and inexplicably
ceased to exist.

Andy Leighton

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Nov 10, 2023, 4:37:41 AM11/10/23

to

Another thing that is annoying is adverts claiming to have the fastest
wifi speeds when what I think they mean is uplink bandwidth? I know
there are different generations of the 802.11 standard and some
providers may provide older routers than others. Also there is some
variance between routers with signal strength etc. But I don't think
ISPs are trying to get you to buy their service on that.

I think that is catching on, as I've definitely heard younger, and less
technical, people ask "do you have wifi?" when what they want to know is
"can I access the web here?" and what they should ask "is there internet
access available?".

--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

Gary McGath

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Nov 10, 2023, 10:04:41 AM11/10/23

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On 11/9/23 10:07 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Which reminds me that I sometimes run into someone in person who used
> to be active in rasff, but suddenly disappeared one day. When I ask
> them why they left, they express surprise that Usenet is still around.
> They used Usenet every day, but one day they suddenly just assumed it
> had ceased to exist?

I'm sure you remember how Andrew Cuomo launched his political career
with a smear campaign against Usenet. A bunch of providers reacted by
dropping Usenet service, which was no longer a money-maker for them
anyway. Maybe these people lost their Usenet connection during that time
and assumed it was gone completely?

When Google dropped its RSS reader, a lot of pundits said RSS was now
dead. Some people must have believed it.

Gary McGath

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Nov 10, 2023, 10:14:43 AM11/10/23

to

On 11/10/23 4:37 AM, Andy Leighton wrote:
> Another thing that is annoying is adverts claiming to have the fastest
> wifi speeds when what I think they mean is uplink bandwidth? I know
> there are different generations of the 802.11 standard and some
> providers may provide older routers than others. Also there is some
> variance between routers with signal strength etc. But I don't think
> ISPs are trying to get you to buy their service on that.

It seems reasonable to me that they're referring to their router speed.
Wi-Fi speed is rarely the bottleneck, but probably their market research
tells them that touting their Wi-Fi speed sells better than touting
their Internet access speed.

> I think that is catching on, as I've definitely heard younger, and less
> technical, people ask "do you have wifi?" when what they want to know is
> "can I access the web here?" and what they should ask "is there internet
> access available?".

I don't normally carry an Ethernet cable with me, so when I'm looking
for an Internet connection away from home, I'm specifically interested
in Wi-Fi. An RJ45 connector doesn't do me much good.

Tangentially related: Yesterday I gave a presentation at the local
library on Wi-Fi safety. I talked about protocols on a simple technical
level, pointed out the risks of apps of unknown quality, and recommended
using a VPN. Only three people showed up. My previous presentation, on
scams, drew 7 (the maximum number I allow for these things). I guess
"scams" sounds like a more exciting topic.

Tim Merrigan

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Nov 10, 2023, 1:18:03 PM11/10/23

to

They will never find and fix all the bugs, because they're not
omniscient, and can only fix the bugs they find, often by end users
reporting them, (possibly introducing new bugs in the process, being
fellable humans, and all).

Same for false convictions (leaving aside cases where people are
deliberately framed).
--

Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

Mike Van Pelt

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Nov 10, 2023, 2:09:59 PM11/10/23

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In article <5atlkidednam3dmps...@4ax.com>,

Arthur T. <art...@munged.invalid> wrote:
>And, as my headers show, I access Usenet via Forte Agent. I shudder
>at the idea of a Web interface.

Ditto.

I'm still using trn 4.0. I've found that it's installable
in Windows Subsystem for Linux. I *love* its kill file
feature, though I don't use it all that much. And it's
pure text; I defy anything short of The Blight to infect
my computer through that.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

Gary McGath

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Nov 10, 2023, 4:04:17 PM11/10/23

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On 11/10/23 2:09 PM, Mike Van Pelt wrote:

> I'm still using trn 4.0. I've found that it's installable
> in Windows Subsystem for Linux. I *love* its kill file
> feature, though I don't use it all that much. And it's
> pure text; I defy anything short of The Blight to infect
> my computer through that.
>

Can trn access the Known Net?

Jay E. Morris

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Nov 10, 2023, 10:52:43 PM11/10/23

to

On 11/9/2023 6:47 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Jay E. Morris <mor...@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:
>> I'm surprised anymore when anyone (under, say, 50) even references
>> the internet. The younglings grew up only knowing the web and if
>> they even think about the internet they think it's some small, vague
>> part of the web.
>
> Change 50 to 30 or 40 and you may be right. The Web only became a
> sigfificant part of the Internet in 1993. So someone who is 50 now
> was 20 then.

Oops. I hit 70 in less than two months. 93 feels 50 years away.

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Nov 11, 2023, 3:59:16 PM11/11/23

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Mike Van Pelt <use...@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
> I'm still using trn 4.0.

Likewise. It's far from perfect, but it's a great improvement over
its many successors.

Whatever happened to the newsreader that Eric Raymond was working on?

> I've found that it's installable in Windows Subsystem for Linux.

I use it on Panix.

> I *love* its kill file feature, though I don't use it all that much.

Likewise. There are just three people in my killfile (not counting
those who haven't posted to rasff at all this year).

> And it's pure text; I defy anything short of The Blight to infect my
> computer through that.

Right. I still do most of my Internet access through my Panix shell
account. I've always been wary of direct access to the net. It's
convenient, like moving into a Metrorail station rather than having
to walk home from one. But would my stuff still be there when I
got "home"?

The back story of Adrian Tchaikovsky's Hugo-winning Children of Time
series involves malware which completely wrecked civilization on Earth
-- it partially recovered only after the next ice age -- and killed
everyone who was off Earth (except for two people who were no longer
quite human). I doubt that could happen. The likely worst case is
that someone could turn your home computer into a child porn server
without your noticing. You're arrested and offered a five-year prison
sentence followed by a lifetime on the sex-offender list if you
plead guilty. You refuse and go to trial. You're convicted, as
the prosecutor depicts you as a computer expert who must have known,
and sentenced to life without parole. Exactly that has happened to
hundreds of people (unless they're all lying, which seems unlikely).

Keith F. Lynch

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Nov 11, 2023, 4:19:14 PM11/11/23

to

Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> I'd much rather rely on code that's written to be free of security
>> bugs in the first place.

> They will never find and fix all the bugs, because they're not
> omniscient, and can only fix the bugs they find, often by end users
> reporting them, (possibly introducing new bugs in the process, being
> fellable humans, and all).

Code is made of basically the same stuff as mathematical theorems.
Do you also believe that there are undetected bugs in all theorems,
i.e. that there's nothing we know for certain about math? Flaws are
sometimes found in theorems, but it's very rare (not counting theorems
"proven" by crackpots).

The "millennium problems" each offer a million-dollar reward for
proofs or disproofs of various conjectures (e.g. the Riemann
Hypothesis). To avoid risk, they require that the work be published
in a reputable peer-reviewed journal, and that nobody finds a flaw in
the first two years after publication.

> Same for false convictions (leaving aside cases where people are
> deliberately framed).

True, since history, even very recent history, isn't made of the same
platonic substance as code or theorems. It's impossible to absolutely
prove or disprove that you robbed a bank last Tuesday after lunch.
Even time-stamped video could be faked. (Maybe if someone were to
invent a time viewer...)

It could, however, be improved by several orders of magnitude, given
that the most common methods currently used to convict people in the
US have very little correlation with guilt. (Details on request.)
Of course fixing it would result in a few more guilty people getting
away with their crimes, barring universal surveillance.

Keith F. Lynch

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Nov 11, 2023, 4:25:12 PM11/11/23

to

Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
> I don't normally carry an Ethernet cable with me, so when I'm
> looking for an Internet connection away from home, I'm specifically
> interested in Wi-Fi. An RJ45 connector doesn't do me much good.

Do most hotels, etc., even offer Ethernet connection? The last time I
used the Net away from home (or my brother's house) was at last year's
Worldcon in Chicago. The public Wi-Fi speed was indeed quite marginal
in most of the hotel. And I didn't see any Ethernet outlets.

The Wi-Fi has since stopped working in that laptop. (Net access still
works via Ethernet.) So I will no longer bring it to conventions.

Peter Trei

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Nov 11, 2023, 5:05:10 PM11/11/23

to

On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 2:44:25 PM UTC-5, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
> In article <uim5sc$30tl9$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
> >On 11/10/23 2:09 PM, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
> >
> >> I'm still using trn 4.0. I've found that it's installable
> >> in Windows Subsystem for Linux. I *love* its kill file
> >> feature, though I don't use it all that much. And it's
> >> pure text; I defy anything short of The Blight to infect
> >> my computer through that.
> >>
> >
> >Can trn access the Known Net?
> Maybe, if we can gateway nntp out of the Slow Zone.

I could see malware written as a bash script or .bat getting
saved and run by a user who was misled as to what they did.

By far the most common route for starting APT attacks are
email attachments which employees are persuaded to open.
(Defending against these is what I'm paid for.)

Pt

Peter Trei

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Nov 11, 2023, 5:08:50 PM11/11/23

to

On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 4:25:12 PM UTC-5, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
> > I don't normally carry an Ethernet cable with me, so when I'm
> > looking for an Internet connection away from home, I'm specifically
> > interested in Wi-Fi. An RJ45 connector doesn't do me much good.
> Do most hotels, etc., even offer Ethernet connection? The last time I
> used the Net away from home (or my brother's house) was at last year's
> Worldcon in Chicago. The public Wi-Fi speed was indeed quite marginal
> in most of the hotel. And I didn't see any Ethernet outlets.
>
> The Wi-Fi has since stopped working in that laptop. (Net access still
> works via Ethernet.) So I will no longer bring it to conventions.

WiFi USB dongles are under $10 these days, so Keith could easily
fix that.

Pt

Scott Dorsey

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Nov 11, 2023, 9:17:44 PM11/11/23

to

Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

>Mike Van Pelt <use...@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>> I'm still using trn 4.0.
>
>Likewise. It's far from perfect, but it's a great improvement over
>its many successors.
>
>Whatever happened to the newsreader that Eric Raymond was working on?

Whatever happens to anything that he works on?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Robert Woodward

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Nov 12, 2023, 12:44:39 AM11/12/23

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In article <b4da759b-726c-4454...@googlegroups.com>,
"ele...@optonline.net" <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:

Was it Earthlink? (which dropped Usenet late September 2020).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

evelynchim...@gmail.com

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Nov 12, 2023, 9:21:06 AM11/12/23

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On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 12:44:39 AM UTC-5, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <b4da759b-726c-4454...@googlegroups.com>,
> "ele...@optonline.net" <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 10:07:09?PM UTC-5, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> > > Which reminds me that I sometimes run into someone in person who used
> > > to be active in rasff, but suddenly disappeared one day. When I ask
> > > them why they left, they express surprise that Usenet is still around.
> > > They used Usenet every day, but one day they suddenly just assumed it
> > > had ceased to exist?
> >
> > In my case, when I retired, I switched to Usenet from my ISP, and then one
> > day
> > it seemed to disappear. AT some point they finally admitted they had
> > dropped it,
> > rather than it being a temporary glitch, and I had to find a new Usenet
> > provider.
> > But I could see how someone might think it had ceased to exist.
> >
> Was it Earthlink? (which dropped Usenet late September 2020).

No, Optimum (a.k.a. Cablevision), and it was several years ago.

Gary McGath

unread,

Nov 12, 2023, 4:49:56 PM11/12/23

to

On 11/11/23 4:16 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>> I'd much rather rely on code that's written to be free of security
>>> bugs in the first place.
>
>> They will never find and fix all the bugs, because they're not
>> omniscient, and can only fix the bugs they find, often by end users
>> reporting them, (possibly introducing new bugs in the process, being
>> fellable humans, and all).
>
> Code is made of basically the same stuff as mathematical theorems.
> Do you also believe that there are undetected bugs in all theorems,
> i.e. that there's nothing we know for certain about math? Flaws are
> sometimes found in theorems, but it's very rare (not counting theorems
> "proven" by crackpots).
>
> The "millennium problems" each offer a million-dollar reward for
> proofs or disproofs of various conjectures (e.g. the Riemann
> Hypothesis). To avoid risk, they require that the work be published
> in a reputable peer-reviewed journal, and that nobody finds a flaw in
> the first two years after publication.

An application to perform a real-world task has little similarity to a
mathematical theorem. "Proving the correctness of a browser" is a
meaningless phrase. A complex application with a user interface deals
with an open-ended set of user inputs, third-party code, and system
services.

Any key-based encryption system is, from a theoretical standpoint,
already defective. Given infinite computing resources and time, you can
break it. Whether something is a bug or not is often a question of
whether it's good enough. This changes over time. Encryption that was
effectively unbreakable in 1995 may be hopelessly weak now.

The number of combinations of inputs, data, and environmental factors is
too large for any mathematical demonstration the they're all bug-free.

This isn't to deny that a lot of code is much sloppier than it has any
right to be. The main reason is feature bloat. Browsers would be much
more secure than they are if they just didn't support JavaScript. Giving
anyone in the world the power to run code on your computer created a
minefield that can never be fully cleaned up. But people want all those
features.

rksh...@rosettacondot.com

unread,

Nov 12, 2023, 4:53:04 PM11/12/23

to

Keith F. Lynch <k...@keithlynch.net> wrote:
> ele...@optonline.net <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>> They used Usenet every day, but one day they suddenly just assumed
>>> it had ceased to exist?
>
>> In my case, when I retired, I switched to Usenet from my ISP, and
>> then one day it seemed to disappear. AT some point they finally
>> admitted they had dropped it, rather than it being a temporary
>> glitch, and I had to find a new Usenet provider. But I could
>> see how someone might think it had ceased to exist.
>
> I'd think almost everyone would check on it, rather than just assuming
> that. The same as if their paycheck had suddenly gotten a lot smaller
> even though they were still working the same number of hours at the
> same job.

It's closer to having your employer get rid of a benefit that almost nobody
uses. I've worked in IT for almost 40 years, starting at a university, and
I've seen Usenet go from something most of the Engineering College used to "Is
that still around?" and then to "What's that?".
The cost (and incovenience) of finding a Usenet feed is so small as to be
negligible unless you're into massive binaries. I think I paid $10 for a 10 GB
"block" (body only) at least 15 years ago and haven't had to think about it
since.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

rksh...@rosettacondot.com

unread,

Nov 12, 2023, 5:08:05 PM11/12/23

to

Keith F. Lynch <k...@keithlynch.net> wrote:

> Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
>> I don't normally carry an Ethernet cable with me, so when I'm
>> looking for an Internet connection away from home, I'm specifically
>> interested in Wi-Fi. An RJ45 connector doesn't do me much good.
>
> Do most hotels, etc., even offer Ethernet connection? The last time I
> used the Net away from home (or my brother's house) was at last year's
> Worldcon in Chicago. The public Wi-Fi speed was indeed quite marginal
> in most of the hotel. And I didn't see any Ethernet outlets.

Very few in my experience, and the few that do haven't updated the equipment
in years.

> The Wi-Fi has since stopped working in that laptop. (Net access still
> works via Ethernet.) So I will no longer bring it to conventions.

I carry an OpenWrt-based travel router with me that can connect Ethernet and
Wi-Fi in either direction (including Wi-Fi to Wi-Fi) and also supports OpenVPN
and WireGuard.
The primary reason is so that we don't have to configure (worst case) five
laptops, four phones, three Kindles and a streaming device whenever we go to a
new hotel. The router has the SSID and key that we use at home so everything
automagically works.

Lowell Gilbert

unread,

Nov 12, 2023, 10:31:33 PM11/12/23

to

"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:

> Code is made of basically the same stuff as mathematical theorems.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.

evelynchim...@gmail.com

unread,

Nov 12, 2023, 10:32:18 PM11/12/23

to

On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 5:08:05 PM UTC-5, rksh...@rosettacondot.com wrote:
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@keithlynch.net> wrote:
> > Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
> >> I don't normally carry an Ethernet cable with me, so when I'm
> >> looking for an Internet connection away from home, I'm specifically
> >> interested in Wi-Fi. An RJ45 connector doesn't do me much good.
> >
> > Do most hotels, etc., even offer Ethernet connection? The last time I
> > used the Net away from home (or my brother's house) was at last year's
> > Worldcon in Chicago. The public Wi-Fi speed was indeed quite marginal
> > in most of the hotel. And I didn't see any Ethernet outlets.
> Very few in my experience, and the few that do haven't updated the equipment
> in years.

The last time I used an Ethernet connection in a hotel was in Newfoundland in 2009.
I suppose that was yet another anomaly: Newfoundland is by any standards different.
It, along with Labrador, was an independent country until 1949. Its time zone is a *half*
hour out from adjacent time zones. Its cell phone service was (at least then) not shared
by any other company. Part of it is covered by a piece of the European tectonic plate.
And its provincial flower is carnivorous. The fact that the hotel guests used Ethernet
connection was just one more quirk.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper

unread,

Nov 14, 2023, 3:12:41 PM11/14/23

to

My screw up there. I posted that 50 year olds might not even reference
the internet and Kieth rightly pointed out that the web came about in
1993 so maybe 30 or 40 year olds wouldn't. In my reply I should have
said that to me 1993 feels a lot farther away than 50 years.

Jay E. Morris

unread,

Nov 14, 2023, 4:32:23 PM11/14/23

to

On 11/11/2023 1:49 PM, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
> In article <b4da759b-726c-4454...@googlegroups.com>,
> ele...@optonline.net <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In my case, when I retired, I switched to Usenet from my ISP, and then one day
>> it seemed to disappear. AT some point they finally admitted they had dropped it,
>> rather than it being a temporary glitch, and I had to find a new Usenet provider.
>> But I could see how someone might think it had ceased to exist.
>
> Calweb did the same thing. "Oh, you're still using that fossil?
> I didn't think anyone did any more." So I changed my nntp server
> to Eternal September.
>
> Then they sold out, and the new owners quit supporting shell
> access. Fortunately, I discovered that it's possible to
> install trn (The One True Newsreader) in Windows Subsystem
> for Linux. I was considering just going all Linux, but I
> still run a few software packages that are Windows only.
>

Let's see. Ray stood up Motzarella around 2005, renamed it Eternal
September in 2008. Still running it today. What gave you the idea he'd
sold it?

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,

Nov 14, 2023, 6:36:26 PM11/14/23

to

In article <uiolss$3jfa6$2...@dont-email.me>,

Mike Van Pelt <use...@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:

>In article <b4da759b-726c-4454...@googlegroups.com>,
>ele...@optonline.net <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>In my case, when I retired, I switched to Usenet from my ISP, and then one day
>> it seemed to disappear. AT some point they finally admitted they had
>dropped it,
>>rather than it being a temporary glitch, and I had to find a new
>Usenet provider.
>>But I could see how someone might think it had ceased to exist.
>
>Calweb did the same thing. "Oh, you're still using that fossil?
>I didn't think anyone did any more." So I changed my nntp server
>to Eternal September.
>
>Then they sold out, and the new owners quit supporting shell
>access. Fortunately, I discovered that it's possible to
>install trn (The One True Newsreader) in Windows Subsystem
>for Linux. I was considering just going all Linux, but I
>still run a few software packages that are Windows only.

[Hal Heydt]
Alternatively, an inexpensive SBC running Linux and use either a
KVM switch or VNC access to it.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,

Nov 14, 2023, 6:38:46 PM11/14/23

to

Jay E. Morris <mor...@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:

> Mike Van Pelt wrote:
>> Calweb did the same thing. "Oh, you're still using that fossil? I
>> didn't think anyone did any more." So I changed my nntp server to
>> Eternal September.

>> Then they sold out, and the new owners quit supporting shell
>> access. Fortunately, I discovered that it's possible to
>> install trn (The One True Newsreader) in Windows Subsystem
>> for Linux. I was considering just going all Linux, but I
>> still run a few software packages that are Windows only.

> Let's see. Ray stood up Motzarella around 2005, renamed it Eternal
> September in 2008. Still running it today. What gave you the idea
> he'd sold it?

From context, I interpreted him as saying that *Calweb* sold out, not
that Eternal September did.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,

Nov 14, 2023, 6:46:25 PM11/14/23

to

In article <uiorfl$jqv$2...@reader2.panix.com>,

Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

>Do most hotels, etc., even offer Ethernet connection?

[Hal Heydt]
Yes and no. In normal hotel rooms, I haven't seen an RJ-45 jack
in years. But if you're *running* a convention function you may
have access to hotel areas that do have wired connections. At
that point, making sure they're active is a matter of either
quiet negotiation or a contracted service the con pays for.

I've been running ConReg for DunDraCon for a fair number of years
now. In our current hotel, there are a pair of RJ-45 jacks in
the counter where the reg data entry stations are set up. The
hotel engineer kindly leaves a CAT-5 cable plugged into the
active one for me. That lets me put a wireless (travel) router
in place to connect the tablets plus PayPal B/T card readers to
accept payments.

In turn, I connect a wired port to the router supplying LAN
services the the actual reg systems. (And, no, I'm not
double-NATting. I use different IP ranges for each router.) That
permits the data entry systems (Raspberry Pis) to get NTP
services and be firewalled off from causal access/contagion.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,

Nov 14, 2023, 6:51:25 PM11/14/23

to

In article <uiri7s$gou5$2...@memoryalpha.rosettacon.com>,

<rksh...@rosettacondot.com> wrote:
>I carry an OpenWrt-based travel router with me that can connect Ethernet and
>Wi-Fi in either direction (including Wi-Fi to Wi-Fi) and also supports OpenVPN
>and WireGuard.
>The primary reason is so that we don't have to configure (worst case) five
>laptops, four phones, three Kindles and a streaming device whenever we go to a
>new hotel. The router has the SSID and key that we use at home so everything
>automagically works.

[Hal Heydt]
Same here. I actually have two travel routers, as I use one to
support payment processiing for ConReg at DunDraCon. The other
one goes in my room, used the same way yours is.

Kevrob

unread,

Nov 15, 2023, 12:57:21 PM11/15/23

to

On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 9:24:44 PM UTC-5, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> > Arthur T. wrote:
> >> And, as my headers show, I access Usenet via Forte Agent.
> >> I shudder at the idea of a Web interface.
>
> > The Devil's own invention!
> The Web is an important app on the Internet. But it's true that it's
> far from the whole of the net. I'm annoyed when people use the words
> "Internet" and "Web" interchangably. And baffled when more and more
> non-Web parts of the Internet are shoehorned into the Web. It's like
> figuring out how to abandon most of your house and do everything in
> the bathroom. Why?
> --

Severe incontinence?

Horrible agoraphobia?

I started using deja when I had yet to buy my own computer.

--
Kevin R

Kevrob

unread,

Nov 15, 2023, 1:01:45 PM11/15/23

to

On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 1:18:03 PM UTC-5, Tim Merrigan wrote:

[snip]

> fellable humans, and all).

I see what you did there! :)

--
Kevin R

Tim Merrigan

unread,

Nov 15, 2023, 3:48:42 PM11/15/23

to

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 10:01:43 -0800 (PST), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 1:18:03?PM UTC-5, Tim Merrigan wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> fellable humans, and all).
>
>I see what you did there! :)

I didn't till now.

fallible
--

Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

Keith F. Lynch

unread,

Nov 15, 2023, 8:59:52 PM11/15/23

to

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> I started using deja when I had yet to buy my own computer.

I still use my computers mostly as terminals to access a shell
on remote computers.

Mike Van Pelt

unread,

Nov 15, 2023, 9:45:40 PM11/15/23

to

In article <uj10e4$ccg$1...@reader2.panix.com>,

Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

>Jay E. Morris <mor...@epsilon3.comcon> wrote:
>> Mike Van Pelt wrote:
>>> Calweb did the same thing. "Oh, you're still using that fossil? I
>>> didn't think anyone did any more." So I changed my nntp server to
>>> Eternal September.
>
>>> Then they sold out, and the new owners quit supporting shell
>>> access. Fortunately, I discovered that it's possible to
>>> install trn (The One True Newsreader) in Windows Subsystem
>>> for Linux. I was considering just going all Linux, but I
>>> still run a few software packages that are Windows only.
>
>> Let's see. Ray stood up Motzarella around 2005, renamed it Eternal
>> September in 2008. Still running it today. What gave you the idea
>> he'd sold it?
>
>From context, I interpreted him as saying that *Calweb* sold out, not
>that Eternal September did.

Correct. I'm still using Eternal September.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

unread,

Nov 17, 2023, 12:16:41 PM11/17/23

to

In article <uj7uag$2r66r$1...@dont-email.me>,

Mine is easy. Get a VPN subscription and

At least you can access our USenet server.

>--
>Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nk.ca Ici doc...@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Lest we forget 11 Nov 2023 Beware https://mindspring.com

Blueshirt

unread,

Nov 17, 2023, 2:56:25 PM11/17/23

to

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <uj7uag$2r66r$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
> >
> > Pureusenet was no better. Again, I couldn't post. I contacted support
> > and was told I had to select a deeply-buried option to be able to
> > post. I went to the indicated page and was told I couldn't enable
> > posting because I didn't have a paid account, although I had signed up
> > and given my credit card information. I replied to the support email
> > explaining this problem. It's been 24 hours with no response. I
> > cancelled the account. So far I haven't seen a charge from Pureusenet
> > on my credit card.
> >
> > This is very disturbing. How can two providers that come with
> > recommendations stay in business offering a service whose restrictions
> > make it completely worthless?
>
> Mine is easy. Get a VPN subscription and

Doesn't everyone use a VPN these days?

It should be the first rule of using the internet.

> At least you can access our USenet server.

Nah... there are better Usenet services out there. 'NetKnow IS' propagates
spam to newsgroups I frequent and the news admin doesn't seem to want to
do anything about it!

Paul Rubin

unread,

Nov 17, 2023, 3:15:44 PM11/17/23

to

Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> writes:
> It appeared to work anyway. However, I got errors trying to post,
> saying posting wasn't allowed on my server.

Lots of those providers have separate servers for reading and posting.
Maybe you needed to use a different server from them? Yeah they do
sound lame.

I think those companies' customers mostly want bulk download feeds for
binaries, rather than wanting to post.

IIRC when I first enrolled with eternal september, I wasn't allowed to
post, and I had to apply for posting privileges separately. Or that
might have been on Octanews, which I used before Eternal September.
Octanews was pretty good until it went out of business N years ago.

Blueshirt

unread,

Nov 17, 2023, 3:35:05 PM11/17/23

to

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> writes:
> > It appeared to work anyway. However, I got errors trying to post,
> > saying posting wasn't allowed on my server.
>
> Lots of those providers have separate servers for reading and posting.
> Maybe you needed to use a different server from them? Yeah they do
> sound lame.
>
> I think those companies' customers mostly want bulk download feeds for
> binaries, rather than wanting to post.

Yes. When I used Newshosting you had to request the ability to post to
text newsgroups as it wasn't enabled by default. IIRC, back then you had
to have had a Newshosting account for a month as well, so you couldn't
just sign-up and post to text groups. Not that too many people who paid
for their service required that anyway, as it was all about binaries and
searching NZB's, etc.

Scott Dorsey

unread,

Nov 17, 2023, 4:01:26 PM11/17/23

to

Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
>
>This is very disturbing. How can two providers that come with
>recommendations stay in business offering a service whose restrictions
>make it completely worthless?

The vast majority of Usenet users today want to download warez from binary
groups and care nothing at all about discussion groups or text. You picked
two servers that cater to them.

The Doctor

unread,

Nov 17, 2023, 6:07:53 PM11/17/23

to

In article <nnd$7bc8ec37$42bf54b5@0aa4687090104251>,

Drunk as ususal Blueshirt.

--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nk.ca Ici doc...@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen

Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

Blueshirt

unread,

Nov 17, 2023, 6:15:23 PM11/17/23

to

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <nnd$7bc8ec37$42bf54b5@0aa4687090104251>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> > The Doctor wrote:
> >
> >> At least you can access our USenet server.
> >
> > Nah... there are better Usenet services out there. 'NetKnow IS'
> > propagates spam to newsgroups I frequent and the news admin doesn't
> > seem to want to do anything about it!
>
> Drunk as ususal Blueshirt.

When you stop spamming newsgroups I will stop criticising your Usenet
service... as an admin you should - and do - know better!

Arthur T.

unread,

Nov 17, 2023, 8:18:11 PM11/17/23

to

In Message-ID:<uj8kb3$4s1$1...@panix2.panix.com>,

klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
>>
>>This is very disturbing. How can two providers that come with
>>recommendations stay in business offering a service whose restrictions
>>make it completely worthless?
>
>The vast majority of Usenet users today want to download warez from binary
>groups and care nothing at all about discussion groups or text. You picked
>two servers that cater to them.

I don't know why he had a problem with Astraweb, but, as you can see
from my headers, I'm posting from there. I've been doing so for over
10 years.

I won't suggest he try again. But whatever the problem was, I don't
think it's as simple as you're suggesting.

--
Arthur T. - ar23hur "at" pobox "dot" com

Gary R. Schmidt

unread,

Nov 17, 2023, 9:44:07 PM11/17/23

to

If you just want text newsgroups, use news.individual.net, 10 Euros a
year, and they do try to filter SPAM.

I've been using them since 2001(!!), when it was news.cis.dfn.de. :-)

Cheers,
Gary B-)

Gary McGath

unread,

Nov 18, 2023, 7:38:04 AM11/18/23

to

I got another email from Astraweb this morning saying my account was
cancelled on November 14, which was the day before I opened it. At least
they're providing documentation if they don't reverse the credit card
charge and I need to dispute it.

I strongly recommend avoiding Astraweb and Pureusenet. Maybe they still
give legacy service to older customers, but they're totally worthless,
verging on scam, as far as I'm concerned.

Gary McGath

unread,

Nov 18, 2023, 7:47:25 AM11/18/23

to

On 11/17/23 9:41 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
> If you just want text newsgroups, use news.individual.net, 10 Euros a
> year, and they do try to filter SPAM.
>
> I've been using them since 2001(!!), when it was news.cis.dfn.de. :-)

I thought earlier that I'd seen a statement that people registering
needed a German connection, but I can't find that now. I may have
misread it. One of the payment options requires a German bank account,
but PayPal is also an option.

However, I've been burned twice and may be out almost $100 if I can't
get Astraweb's credit card charge voided. For now, Eternal September is
still sometimes slow but good enough. I don't feel like taking more
chances at the moment.

Gary R. Schmidt

unread,

Nov 18, 2023, 8:54:07 AM11/18/23

to

On 18/11/2023 23:47, Gary McGath wrote:
> On 11/17/23 9:41 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>> If you just want text newsgroups, use news.individual.net, 10 Euros a
>> year, and they do try to filter SPAM.
>>
>> I've been using them since 2001(!!), when it was news.cis.dfn.de. :-)
>
> I thought earlier that I'd seen a statement that people registering
> needed a German connection, but I can't find that now. I may have
> misread it. One of the payment options requires a German bank account,
> but PayPal is also an option.
>

Ah, way back when they were the Free University site - around 2003 IIRC
- there was a bit of a kerfuffle about free use by non-Germans, which
went away when they said, "Well, we'll charge 'em 10 Euros".

I'm not German, although my surname is, (and my father was), they were
amused when I registered. :-)

> However, I've been burned twice and may be out almost $100 if I can't
> get Astraweb's credit card charge voided. For now, Eternal September is
> still sometimes slow but good enough. I don't feel like taking more
> chances at the moment.

Fair enough.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

Bernard Peek

unread,

Nov 18, 2023, 3:43:08 PM11/18/23

to

On 2023-11-18, Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/23 9:41 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>> If you just want text newsgroups, use news.individual.net, 10 Euros a
>> year, and they do try to filter SPAM.
>>
>> I've been using them since 2001(!!), when it was news.cis.dfn.de. :-)
>
> I thought earlier that I'd seen a statement that people registering
> needed a German connection, but I can't find that now. I may have
> misread it. One of the payment options requires a German bank account,
> but PayPal is also an option.

That requirement went away when the service was no longer free, funded by
the university. When it was renamed anyone could sign up. It's the system
I have used for years without any significant issues. Customer-service (in
English) is excellent during office hours, I don't think it's 24Hr. Their
timezone is an hour ahead of the UK.

--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
Wigan

Gary McGath

unread,

Nov 18, 2023, 5:30:52 PM11/18/23

to

On 11/18/23 7:47 AM, Gary McGath wrote:

> However, I've been burned twice and may be out almost $100 if I can't
> get Astraweb's credit card charge voided. For now, Eternal September is
> still sometimes slow but good enough. I don't feel like taking more
> chances at the moment.

Update: Astraweb has agreed to refund my money. Of course, that's not
the same as seeing the refund on my credit card statement, but I'm hopeful.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,

Nov 18, 2023, 9:26:26 PM11/18/23

to

In article <r3sm2k-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,

Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
>I'm not German, although my surname is, (and my father was), they were
>amused when I registered. :-)

[Hal Heydt]
For me, that'd have to go back to a great-grandfather, Carl Otto
Heydt. Apparently he left because he didn't want to get drafted
to fight in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.

rksh...@rosettacondot.com

unread,

Nov 28, 2023, 4:18:05 PM11/28/23

to

I've had no issues with Astraweb.
I also use https://usenet-news.net/
I bought blocks on each over 10 years ago and haven't had to add since then.
I can't comment on either's responsiveness...I'm using INN and pullnews on a
local Linux server.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

Joe Kesselman

unread,

Feb 3, 2024, 3:51:22 PMFeb 3

to

Eternal September is working for me (now that I got reconnected).

On the other hand, recent versions of Thunderbird have been shredding
entirely too much of my mail, including entangling messages and headers.
I'm seeing that behavior in Lee's response in this thread. So if you're
using T'bird, it may be time to give up on it.

I haven't quite pulled the plug on that yet. Close, though.

Gary McGath

unread,

Feb 3, 2024, 4:38:17 PMFeb 3

to

I haven't had any problems with Thunderbird email. If you favor plain
text email (which I know you, Joe, do), what might be an alternative?

D

unread,

Feb 4, 2024, 6:16:16 AMFeb 4

to

I recommend alpine for email and news. For only news tin looks quite
alright.

Joe Kesselman

unread,

Feb 15, 2024, 11:44:12 PMFeb 15

to

On 11/16/2023 6:24 AM, Rafe Culpin wrote:
> My search hasn't been going well, but just this morning I changed the
> server I'm using on Eternal September to news.eternal-september.org ,
> and it's working much better. I hadn't updated the server name in years,
> so I was probably accessing some old machine of theirs which they'd
> nearly forgotten they still have.

Moving to reader.eternal-september.org did it for me. YMMV....

John Davis

unread,

Feb 21, 2024, 1:50:57 PMFeb 21

to

I am now using the PAN usenet news reader.. If you read this it's working
on Windows 10.... Used to use Google Groups but alas they Discontinued
Usenet.

--
There is no life Before Coffee

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Tim Merrigan

unread,

Feb 21, 2024, 3:32:14 PMFeb 21

to

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 18:50:55 -0000 (UTC), John Davis <wa8...@arrl.net>
wrote:

>If you read this it's working
>on Windows 10.

It seems to be working.
--

Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

Scott Dorsey

unread,

Feb 21, 2024, 4:42:22 PMFeb 21

to

In article <ur5gmf$3adi4$1...@dont-email.me>, John Davis <wa8...@arrl.net> wrote:
>I am now using the PAN usenet news reader.. If you read this it's working
>on Windows 10.... Used to use Google Groups but alas they Discontinued
>Usenet.

Looks just fine. Notice how much less spam there is!

The Doctor

unread,

Feb 21, 2024, 6:20:28 PMFeb 21

to

In article <ur5gmf$3adi4$1...@dont-email.me>, John Davis <wa8...@arrl.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Feb 2024 12:16:08 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024, Joe Kesselman wrote:
>>
>>> Eternal September is working for me (now that I got reconnected).
>>>
>>> On the other hand, recent versions of Thunderbird have been shredding
>>> entirely too much of my mail, including entangling messages and
>>> headers. I'm seeing that behavior in Lee's response in this thread. So
>>> if you're using T'bird, it may be time to give up on it.
>>>
>>> I haven't quite pulled the plug on that yet. Close, though.
>>>
>>>
>> I recommend alpine for email and news. For only news tin looks quite
>> alright.
>
>I am now using the PAN usenet news reader.. If you read this it's working
>on Windows 10.... Used to use Google Groups but alas they Discontinued
>Usenet.
>

Yay!

>
>
>--
>There is no life Before Coffee
>
>--
>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>www.avast.com

--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nk.ca Ici doc...@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen

What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

The Doctor

unread,

Feb 21, 2024, 6:21:06 PMFeb 21

to

In article <cdncti5d66vhl2h76...@4ax.com>,

Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 18:50:55 -0000 (UTC), John Davis <wa8...@arrl.net>
>wrote:
>
>>If you read this it's working
>>on Windows 10.
>
>It seems to be working.

Yay!

>--
>
>Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.
>
>Tim Merrigan
>
>--
>This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
>www.avg.com

The Doctor

unread,

Feb 21, 2024, 6:21:25 PMFeb 21

to

In article <ur5qns$3kt$1...@panix2.panix.com>,

Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <ur5gmf$3adi4$1...@dont-email.me>, John Davis <wa8...@arrl.net> wrote:
>>I am now using the PAN usenet news reader.. If you read this it's working
>>on Windows 10.... Used to use Google Groups but alas they Discontinued
>>Usenet.
>
>Looks just fine. Notice how much less spam there is!
>--scott

YaY!!

>--
>"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."