So much for the 6-2-1 rule's 6
Tom Galloway
The 6-2-1 rule for cons, of course, is each day you should get a minimum
of 6 hours of sleep, 2 meals, and 1 shower. The above referenced article
is about a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other effects,
at least in the short term. Long term effects are unknown. But it appears
to be being prescribed in amounts much larger than are accountable by the
number of narcoleptics in the US.
tyg t...@panix.com
Dorothy J Heydt
I think it would be good for tnh to have this if it will
do her good. I think it would not be good for Joe
average Fan to have it, and even more so it would not be
good for the average DunDraCon attendee to have it, they
tend to stay up and game for 72 hours straight anyway.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Joel Rosenberg
But doing so, now, without the drug, has some serious -- albeit
apparently temporary -- deleterious effects. If -- and it is, at this
point, entirely an if -- the drug doesn't have unknown bad
side-effects, it sounds to me like a good thing. (If it's just a
matter of having to grab a couple of extra hours of sleep every night
over the next couple of weeks, as is possible, that would be a
wonderful thing.)
Even now, if I could pull the occasional all-nighter without feeling
like warmed over spit for a couple of days, I'd love to.
--
Christine Hanson will never be three, and I feel sad about that. But I
did not know her, love her, cherish her; I do not feel her loss, her
absence in my life. I have no reason to hold hands in a "healing
circle" for her. All I can do for Christine Hanson is insist that the
terrorist movement which killed her is hunted down and prevented from
deliberately targeting any more two-year olds. We honour Christine
Hanson's memory by righting the great wrong done to her, not by ersatz
grief-mongering.
-- Mark Steyn
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Keith F. Lynch
> ... a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
> allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other
> effects, at least in the short term.
I can stay up 40 hours without any drugs. Is that unusual?
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.
Joel Rosenberg
> Tom Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
>> ... a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
>> allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other
>> effects, at least in the short term.
>
> I can stay up 40 hours without any drugs. Is that unusual?
> --
Short answer: yes, I think, although certainly many people have done
it under various forms of duress.
Depends, I think, on how difficult it is for you, and what your level
of functioning at the end of the time. The 36-hour stints on duty
that are often part of MD training are known to cause distinct
lowering of function; the first reports on this drug is that that
doesn't happen.
--
I can imagine a commando-type raid to capture Bin Laden,
then a trial, with evidence, before the world court. But
that would not address the vast global inequalities in which
terrorism is ultimately rooted. What is so heartbreaking to
me as a feminist is that the strongest response to corporate
globalization and U.S. military domination is based on such
a violent and misogynist ideology."
-- Barbara Ehrenreich
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Ed Dravecky III
> Tom Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> > ... a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
> > allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other
> > effects, at least in the short term.
>
> I can stay up 40 hours without any drugs. Is that unusual?
I have stayed up for 40+ hours without any drugs (beyond the
caffeine found in Diet Mountain Dew) but 1) my second air shift
was not of the same quality as the one the day before, 2) I was
starting to hallucinate a bit in quiet moments, and 3) the crash
afterwards discouraged that behavior to some extent.
I find that I can function after even two hours of sleep much
more normally than I can on no sleep and the after-effects are
seldom worse than an increased "sleep deficit" and dry eyes.
--
Ed Dravecky III - Addison, Texas
Kids, please don't try this at home.
Ray Radlein
Yeah, we've talked about Provigil a couple of times before here. My
doctor prescribed it for me with an unusual degree of optimism; but
while I didn't notice any adverse side effects, it also didn't really
help me very much (after all, my problem wasn't one of falling asleep at
work; and the mornings when it *might* have helped keep me awake were
the mornings when I couldn't wake up and get out of bed to take it
anyway).
Since I still have a few of them left, I did try taking them during
Dragon*Con, as an experiment in using them for something like their
*designed* purpose; and they seemed to work perfectly in that regard. I
had no trouble staying awake until 6:00 AM or so over Sunday night,
hanging out at the drum circle, limbo contest, rap circle, and so forth
-- and then driving everyone home (on the other hand, we *all* overslept
our alarms on Monday, missed the Iron Artist contest, and decided to
just skip D*C's last day).
I also discovered, during D*C, what I can best describe as an odd new
kind of stamina: During the hectic days of the con, walking all over
from panel to panel to dealer room to bar to food court to panel to art
show to bar to wherever, and staying up all night, I felt really sore
and tired and fatigued and crappy. On the other hand, that's the way I
*always* feel, so it wasn't that big a deal. In ways, I handled the
physical demands of the con better than my wife and our friends. I don't
think the Provigil had anything to do with *that*, though.
- Ray R.
--
***********************************************************************
"Nero? Galba? Otho? Vitellius? All jerks. 'Nuff said."
- Taciturn, "Histories" 1:1
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
***********************************************************************
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Tom Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
>> ... a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
>> allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other
>> effects, at least in the short term.
>
>I can stay up 40 hours without any drugs. Is that unusual?
I used to be able to do that when I was about 17.
Still can, maybe, if I force myself (and start out well rested) but
*not* with "minimal other effects".
--
Leif Kj{\o}nn{\o}y | "Its habit of getting up late you'll agree
www.pvv.org/~leifmk| That it carries too far, when I say
Math geek and gamer| That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea,
GURPS, Harn, CORPS | And dines on the following day." (Carroll)
Michalak
I read about this a while ago and I did look into if I could get the
drug in a legally grey way, such as buying it in another country and
bringing it back for my own use. However in doing my research about
modafinil I discovered something that would put a cramp in the use by
many con goers. Big ol' warnings about "Do Not Use in combination
with Alcohol". I don't feel like making an experiment of myself, so
that killed my brief thought of getting some and staying up for a
couple days at WorldCon.
Mishalak
Andrew Plotkin
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>> Tom Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> ... a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
>>> allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other
>>> effects, at least in the short term.
>>
>> I can stay up 40 hours without any drugs. Is that unusual?
> Short answer: yes, I think, although certainly many people have done
> it under various forms of duress.
> Depends, I think, on how difficult it is for you, and what your level
> of functioning at the end of the time. The 36-hour stints on duty
> that are often part of MD training are known to cause distinct
> lowering of function
And, I understand, the same is true of long stints with traditional
stimulants. Just as a drunk full of coffee is a wide-awake drunk, a
half-asleep person full of coffee is a wide-awake half-asleep person.
> the first reports on this drug is that that doesn't happen.
Indeed.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
David Dyer-Bennet
> Tom Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> > ... a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
> > allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other
> > effects, at least in the short term.
>
> I can stay up 40 hours without any drugs. Is that unusual?
40 is about my comfortable limit (getting up one morning, up all night
and all day, getting to bed a bit early the next night).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
Bernard Peek
<mich...@diac.com> writes
>I read about this a while ago and I did look into if I could get the
>drug in a legally grey way, such as buying it in another country and
>bringing it back for my own use. However in doing my research about
>modafinil I discovered something that would put a cramp in the use by
>many con goers. Big ol' warnings about "Do Not Use in combination
>with Alcohol". I don't feel like making an experiment of myself, so
>that killed my brief thought of getting some and staying up for a
>couple days at WorldCon.
Another thing that contra-indicates it for use at conventions is that it
reduces the effectiveness of oral contraceptives.
--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
www.diversebooks.com: SF & Computing book reviews and more.....
In search of cognoscenti
Joel Rosenberg
> In message <859bef64.02092...@posting.google.com>, Michalak
> <mich...@diac.com> writes
>
>>I read about this a while ago and I did look into if I could get the
>>drug in a legally grey way, such as buying it in another country and
>>bringing it back for my own use. However in doing my research about
>>modafinil I discovered something that would put a cramp in the use by
>>many con goers. Big ol' warnings about "Do Not Use in combination
>>with Alcohol". I don't feel like making an experiment of myself, so
>>that killed my brief thought of getting some and staying up for a
>>couple days at WorldCon.
>
> Another thing that contra-indicates it for use at conventions is that
> it reduces the effectiveness of oral contraceptives.
Well, for women, anyway. Men could still stay -- oh, nevermind.
--
Muslim American people are praying to the almighty God to grant
victory to Iraq.
-- Louis Farrakhan
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Timothy McDaniel
In article <m4tIFyHB...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>,
Bernard Peek <b...@shrdlu.com> wrote:
>Another thing that contra-indicates it for use at conventions is that
>it reduces the effectiveness of oral contraceptives.
So don't come in her mouth. Duh.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com; tm...@us.ibm.com is my work address
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>Tom Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
>> ... a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
>> allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other
>> effects, at least in the short term.
>
>I can stay up 40 hours without any drugs. Is that unusual?
At our age, yes. I frequently stayed up more than two days when I was
younger, then I could sleep six hours and be back up. Even if I
wasn't sick, I couldn't stay away that long again.
We've talked about this new med, in case my sleeping so much doesn't
turn out to be connected to anything (had 12 vials of blood drawn this
morning, not the record, that's 14, plus the 24-hour urines), but I
hope things get figured out soon.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Dale Farmer
Andrew Plotkin wrote:
> Here, Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote:
> > "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>
> >> Tom Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>> ... a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
> >>> allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other
> >>> effects, at least in the short term.
> >>
> >> I can stay up 40 hours without any drugs. Is that unusual?
>
> > Short answer: yes, I think, although certainly many people have done
> > it under various forms of duress.
>
> > Depends, I think, on how difficult it is for you, and what your level
> > of functioning at the end of the time. The 36-hour stints on duty
> > that are often part of MD training are known to cause distinct
> > lowering of function
>
> And, I understand, the same is true of long stints with traditional
> stimulants. Just as a drunk full of coffee is a wide-awake drunk, a
> half-asleep person full of coffee is a wide-awake half-asleep person.
>
> > the first reports on this drug is that that doesn't happen.
>
> Indeed.
Color me extremely skeptical about the ability of a drug that will
let someone stay awake and functional at a competent level for 40
hours straight. The military has been searching for that sort of stuff
since they first discovered caffinated beverages.
I've done the forty hours up and on the job straight before. The
drive home was interesting, and I was lucky that it was a sunday
afternoon and the roads were relatively empty. I cannot imagine
a convention that is so interesting for all 24 hours of the day that I
am willing to pay the price of much lesser enjoyment of the second
and third or fourth day of the convention.
Even 6:2:1 has it limits. After about 14 days straight of that, you
need a day of R&R to recover.
--Dale
Kevin J. Maroney
wrote:
> Color me extremely skeptical about the ability of a drug that will
>let someone stay awake and functional at a competent level for 40
>hours straight. The military has been searching for that sort of stuff
>since they first discovered caffinated beverages.
Just out of curiosity, have you read the article cited earlier in this
thread? You might have missed this passage from it:
The military, too, has added to the attention paid modafinil by
reporting publicly that it has been testing the drug as
''performance enhancement'' for combatants who must stay awake for
days. It turned out that they could function well for 40 hours,
sleep eight hours, and then get up and go another 40 hours before
needing rest.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com
Games are my entire waking life.
Dave O'Neill
"Bernard Peek" <b...@shrdlu.com> wrote in message
news:m4tIFyHB...@diamond9.demon.co.uk...
> In message <859bef64.02092...@posting.google.com>, Michalak
> <mich...@diac.com> writes
>
> >I read about this a while ago and I did look into if I could get the
> >drug in a legally grey way, such as buying it in another country and
> >bringing it back for my own use. However in doing my research about
> >modafinil I discovered something that would put a cramp in the use by
> >many con goers. Big ol' warnings about "Do Not Use in combination
> >with Alcohol". I don't feel like making an experiment of myself, so
> >that killed my brief thought of getting some and staying up for a
> >couple days at WorldCon.
>
> Another thing that contra-indicates it for use at conventions is that it
> reduces the effectiveness of oral contraceptives.
And this is relevent to most fans how?
;-)
Dave
David Dyer-Bennet
> On 23 Sep 2002 00:37:53 -0400, "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Tom Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> ... a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
> >> allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other
> >> effects, at least in the short term.
> >
> >I can stay up 40 hours without any drugs. Is that unusual?
>
> At our age, yes. I frequently stayed up more than two days when I was
> younger, then I could sleep six hours and be back up. Even if I
> wasn't sick, I couldn't stay away that long again.
I could never do that when I was young, either. It was about 40 hours
for me then, too.
David G. Bell
<m4tIFyHB...@diamond9.demon.co.uk> b...@shrdlu.com
"Bernard Peek" wrote:
> In message <859bef64.02092...@posting.google.com>, Michalak
> <mich...@diac.com> writes
>
> >I read about this a while ago and I did look into if I could get the
> >drug in a legally grey way, such as buying it in another country and
> >bringing it back for my own use. However in doing my research about
> >modafinil I discovered something that would put a cramp in the use by
> >many con goers. Big ol' warnings about "Do Not Use in combination
> >with Alcohol". I don't feel like making an experiment of myself, so
> >that killed my brief thought of getting some and staying up for a
> >couple days at WorldCon.
>
> Another thing that contra-indicates it for use at conventions is that it
> reduces the effectiveness of oral contraceptives.
At which point, some of the audience mutter "Not my problem", which is
probably why it never will be a problem for them.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"Let me get this straight. You're the KGB's core AI, but you're afraid
of a copyright infringement lawsuit over your translator semiotics?"
From "Lobsters" by Charles Stross.
Ivana Marinkovic
"Marilee J. Layman" <mjla...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:tgnvouggdauqn1i16...@4ax.com...
When I was a kid I waited for the promised age (of about 18 years) when I
will need only 8 hours of sleep. And waited. And waited. Nowdays I managed
to cut it down to about 9 (from the 10 it used to take). On my first
Worldcon I went with about 10 hours thursday to tuesday. The result? In the
next couple of months I played 4 chess games for my club and managed to lose
every each one, against much weaker opponents (that I used to wipe
previously). My brain felt like being back after that, but it did not help
my club, which missed the placing in the higher league by just one half of a
point. It later dispersed, very much because of this flop.
Dale Farmer
"Kevin J. Maroney" wrote:
Nope. Don't recall seeing the link. Just the discussion here.
--Dale
Adina Adler
> "Kevin J. Maroney" wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:35:24 -0400, Dale Farmer <Da...@cybercom.net>
> > wrote:
> > > Color me extremely skeptical about the ability of a drug that will
> > >let someone stay awake and functional at a competent level for 40
> > >hours straight. The military has been searching for that sort of stuff
> > >since they first discovered caffinated beverages.
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, have you read the article cited earlier in this
> > thread? You might have missed this passage from it:
> >
> > The military, too, has added to the attention paid modafinil by
> > reporting publicly that it has been testing the drug as
> > ''performance enhancement'' for combatants who must stay awake for
> > days. It turned out that they could function well for 40 hours,
> > sleep eight hours, and then get up and go another 40 hours before
> > needing rest.
> >
>
> Nope. Don't recall seeing the link. Just the discussion here.
Here you go:
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/265/nation/Who_needs_sleep_New_pill_hits_scene+.shtml
--
Adina
Marilee J. Layman
I'm routinely sleeping 12-15 hours a day, where I used to sleep 8 or
9. On Tuesday, I slept from noon to 8pm, then slept again from 11pm
to 4am -- 13 hours.
Dale Farmer
Adina Adler wrote:
Thanks. Interesting. But I notice that it is only reporting subjective experiences
of the users. Not objective measures of performance and judgment of the
users while doing tasks. That's exactly what amphetamine users reported
under the influence. They felt alert and attentive and normal. But they were
hyperactive, distractible, and tasks requiring reasoned judgment were poorly
done. I remain unconvinced.
--Dale
Kevin J. Maroney
wrote:
>> > "Kevin J. Maroney" wrote:
>> > > The military, too, has added to the attention paid modafinil by
>> > > reporting publicly that it has been testing the drug as
>> > > ''performance enhancement'' for combatants who must stay awake for
>> > > days. It turned out that they could function well for 40 hours,
>> > > sleep eight hours, and then get up and go another 40 hours before
>> > > needing rest.
>
>of the users. Not objective measures of performance and judgment of the
>users while doing tasks. That's exactly what amphetamine users reported
>under the influence. They felt alert and attentive and normal. But they were
>hyperactive, distractible, and tasks requiring reasoned judgment were poorly
>done. I remain unconvinced.
The paragraph I quoted does not, in fact, say that the testing is
based on self-reporting, and I'm not sure what part of the originally
quoted article leads you to believe it does. The only reference to
self-reporting was one sentence about a reporter praising the drug:
But then, he wrote that story during a 40-hour period of
modafinil-enhanced wakefulness, so his judgment may have been
affected.
Here's another source:
<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA011203Stay_awake_pill.html>
Modafinil (sold under the name Provigil) has been found to increase
both wakefulness and what researchers call "vigilance," the ability
to stay on task, thinking clearly and functioning normally.
...
Most studies of "normal" volunteers have used military recruits,
and the maximum they've kept them up is about four days, with
nearly normal performance on mental tasks, he said.
...
The volunteer subjects who had taken the modafinil sustained their
alertness and the capacity to perform well on a variety of tests,
while those who had taken the placebo had a significantly higher
error rate.
So at least some of the testing is *not* based on self-reporting.
Vicki Rosenzweig
It's very useful for people with physiological sleep disorders. It works
well for many narcoleptics, and in some cases of MS fatigue.
That doesn't prove--or disprove--that it will be good for people who
don't have abnormal sleep patterns or fatigue that isn't curable by a
couple of good night's sleep.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Miche
Kettir <ket...@checkmysig.com> wrote:
> On 22 Sep 2002 20:43:14 -0400, t...@panix.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
>
> >http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/265/nation/Who_needs_sleep_New_pill_hits_sc
> >ene+.shtml
> >
> >The 6-2-1 rule for cons, of course, is each day you should get a minimum
> >of 6 hours of sleep, 2 meals, and 1 shower. The above referenced article
> >is about a prescription drug, intended for narcoleptics, that seems to
> >allow folk to stay awake for 40 hours or so with minimal other effects,
> >at least in the short term. Long term effects are unknown. But it appears
> >to be being prescribed in amounts much larger than are accountable by the
> >number of narcoleptics in the US.
>
> According to the information, it doesn't avoid the secondary effects
> of not getting enough sleep, which I believe would include things like
> your memory being affected. When I don't get enough sleep I get that
> "I know that word but I can't bring it to mind" thing going, and I
> forget to do things I've been asked to do, etc. I wonder exactly what
> it is the body is doing while we sleep that "refreshes" your brain.
I think of sleep as a "reset" button for my brain. When I stop being
able to think properly (including the "I know that word, what is it
again" syndrome you mention), a nap usually fixes it.
Miche
--
So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered
by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm
going to brush its teeth. So there.
-- Rob Landley