A curious difference.
Martha Adams
Kennedy several times in recent years, but this
underwear bomber guy walked in after serious warning
from his father (and I think, also from others).
Titeotwawki -- mha [2010 Jan 08]
Paul Ciszek
In article <op.u568w...@your-vs85n1xobx.myhome.westell.com>,
Martha Adams <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
>I think it's interesting that the TSA stopped Edward
>Kennedy several times in recent years, but this
>underwear bomber guy walked in after serious warning
> from his father (and I think, also from others).
Well, his father was a Nigerian businessman, and people have taken to
ignoring urgent messages from them.
--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |
Philip Chee
> I think it's interesting that the TSA stopped Edward
> Kennedy several times in recent years, but this
> underwear bomber guy walked in after serious warning
> from his father (and I think, also from others).
The story I heard is that after repeated complaints by Ted Kennedy (he
got around it by buying tickets in the name of "Edward Kennedy") and
other Congresscritters who were on the no-fly list, the TSA decided to
cut down the number of people on the list. It was this abbreviated list
that allowed wossame Farouk to walk through security. On the old omnibus
list he would have been stopped (it was claimed).
Phil
--
Philip Chee <phi...@aleytys.pc.my>, <phili...@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
[ ]Its my tagline! I stole it first.
* TagZilla 0.066.6
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
>I think it's interesting that the TSA stopped Edward
>Kennedy several times in recent years, but this
>underwear bomber guy walked in after serious warning
> from his father (and I think, also from others).
Abdulmutallab flew in from Amsterdam. I don't think the TSA has
jurisdiction there.
--
"Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of."
- David Moser
David V. Loewe, Jr
wrote:
>On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 05:44:57 -0000, Martha Adams wrote:
>> I think it's interesting that the TSA stopped Edward
>> Kennedy several times in recent years, but this
>> underwear bomber guy walked in after serious warning
>> from his father (and I think, also from others).
>
>The story I heard is that after repeated complaints by Ted Kennedy (he
>got around it by buying tickets in the name of "Edward Kennedy") and
>other Congresscritters who were on the no-fly list, the TSA decided to
>cut down the number of people on the list. It was this abbreviated list
>that allowed wossame Farouk to walk through security. On the old omnibus
>list he would have been stopped (it was claimed).
Got a link, Philip? I'd be interested in looking at a full account of
that if you do.
--
"Many receive advice, few profit by it."
Publius Syrus
raymond larsson
dlo...@mindspring.com says...
> Abdulmutallab flew in from Amsterdam. I don't think the TSA has
> jurisdiction there.
It doesn't but it can prevent a plane containing undesirables from
landing in the USA. For this purpose it can require preflight passenger
list for planes flying over US airspace.
Jette Goldie
Indeed, we're told that the aforementioned list is transmitted to the
US before the plane takes off.
--
Jette Goldie
jette....@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfette/
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)
Petrea Mitchell
Martha Adams <mh...@verizon.net> strode forth and proclaimed:
> I think it's interesting that the TSA stopped Edward
> Kennedy several times in recent years, but this
> underwear bomber guy walked in after serious warning
> from his father (and I think, also from others).
Well, the father said (according to public reports, anyhow) something
along the lines of "My son is hanging out with a dangerous crowd", but
didn't have any specific plot details. The day that someone can be banned
from air travel indefinitely on the strength of a vague denouncement from
a relative or neighbor, we are in big trouble.
The agency taking that report did exactly the right thing in putting him on
the "huh, let's see if his name comes up in some other context" sort of
list. This is not a failure of the system; a failure would have been a
crashed airplane.
The person named or using the alias "Ted Kennedy" got on the no-fly list
because some agency felt it had actual evidence of terrorist involvement.
--
/ <pr...@bidalaka.com>
Petrea Mitchell <|> <|> <petrea....@evrazincna.com>
"Every decade is a source of embarrassment for people who were young then."
---"T-Bone" Burton
Keith F. Lynch
> The person named or using the alias "Ted Kennedy" got on the no-fly
> list because some agency felt it had actual evidence of terrorist
> involvement.
He crashed cars, not planes.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Keith F. Lynch
> I think it's interesting that the TSA stopped Edward Kennedy several
> times in recent years, but this underwear bomber guy walked in after
> serious warning from his father (and I think, also from others).
It's part of government, what do you expect?
Three weeks after the big snowfall here, many sidewalks are still
impassible, due to snow plows having moved snow from the roads to the
sidewalks. It's hard to say what's more characteristic of government:
Making things better for some by making them worse for others, or
sheer random incompetence.
Martha Adams
>
> In article <op.u568w...@your-vs85n1xobx.myhome.westell.com>,
> Martha Adams <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> I think it's interesting that the TSA stopped Edward
>> Kennedy several times in recent years, but this
>> underwear bomber guy walked in after serious warning
>> from his father (and I think, also from others).
>
> Well, his father was a Nigerian businessman, and people have taken to
> ignoring urgent messages from them.
==========================================
I think you mean those emails referring to urgent business and
a chance at a pile of money if you just.... I've heard some
people took those so seriously they actually went over to
Nigeria, where they then vanished. But that's another topic.
*Could it be* some key people said, "There it is, that's
another Nigeria scam," and simply ignored it? *This fits.*
And seems to me, it's a kind of thing that would not find
its way into the news.
Titeotwawki -- mha [2010 Jan 09]
Bob Johanson
> I think it's interesting that the TSA stopped Edward
> Kennedy several times in recent years, but this
> underwear bomber guy walked in after serious warning
> from his father (and I think, also from others).
It's like coming to a fork in the road all over again.
http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/5349-more-behind-the-underpants-bomber-whos-your-daddy.html
Bob Johnson
Kip Williams
> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:45:52 -0000, Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> In article <op.u568w...@your-vs85n1xobx.myhome.westell.com>,
>> Martha Adams <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> I think it's interesting that the TSA stopped Edward
>>> Kennedy several times in recent years, but this
>>> underwear bomber guy walked in after serious warning
>>> from his father (and I think, also from others).
>>
>> Well, his father was a Nigerian businessman, and people have taken to
>> ignoring urgent messages from them.
>
> ==========================================
>
> I think you mean those emails referring to urgent business and
> a chance at a pile of money if you just....
Glad you got the joke!
Kip W
David Wolff
I think everyone should make a concerted effort to *always* refer to the
Al Qaeda crotch bomber as "the Al Qaeda crotch bomber". My theory is
that no one in Al Qaeda wants to become known as a "crotch bomber".
Martyrdom is one thing, ridicule is unbearable.
Thanks --
David
(Remove "xx" to reply.)
Petrea Mitchell
David Wolff <dwol...@panix.com> strode forth and proclaimed:
> I think everyone should make a concerted effort to *always* refer to the
> Al Qaeda crotch bomber as "the Al Qaeda crotch bomber". My theory is
> that no one in Al Qaeda wants to become known as a "crotch bomber".
>
> Martyrdom is one thing, ridicule is unbearable.
Someone in Bruce Schneier's comments dubbed him "Captain Underpants", which
has become my preferred term, but maybe that sounds too cool.
(And does this mean that Dick Cheney is Dr. Diaper?)
--
/ <pr...@bidalaka.com>
Petrea Mitchell <|> <|> <petrea....@evrazincna.com>
"You behold the interface of convergent virtual realities. It looks a bit
grubby and the floor in here could do with a wash." ---CardiffMOO
Martha Adams
==========================================
Hi, David. There's good points in discussion; *really* good
points, and then the point you just made. Seems to me, like
the local christian evangelicals, these muslim extremists
have extreme hangups about sex. Look at this idea of female
circumcision, for instance. So if some Washington people and
a few others pulled their heads together, and every time a
terror strike happened, there followed a regular storm of
jokes and ridicule based largely upon (perverted) human
sexuality, extremisms would become *much* less attractive
to those who are their natural ...utilities.
There's some colonial American folk saying to effect the
devil can't abide laughter. I think the same applies to
major degree here. The usual response to terror suicides
of horror and fear is the best PR the terrorists could want.
(I think Guantanomo is excellent terrorist PR, too; and I
understand it's brought them many energized recruits.)
Crotch bomber! This idea makes so good sense I'd be very
surprised to see it actually put to use.
Tietotwawki -- mha [2010 Jan 11]
Kip Williams
> I think everyone should make a concerted effort to *always* refer to the
> Al Qaeda crotch bomber as "the Al Qaeda crotch bomber". My theory is
> that no one in Al Qaeda wants to become known as a "crotch bomber".
Or the Undiebomber.
Kip W
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
I've seen that one around. I've also seen Pantiebomber and Johnson
Bomber (as in burned off his ...).
--
"Oh a sleeping drunkard up in Central Park
Or the lion hunter in the jungle dark
Or the chinese dentist or the British Queen
They all fit together in the same machine"
-Vonnegut, Pack, Puerta, Drummond & North
Jette Goldie
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:52:10 -0500, Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> David Wolff wrote:
>>
>>> I think everyone should make a concerted effort to *always* refer to the
>>> Al Qaeda crotch bomber as "the Al Qaeda crotch bomber". My theory is
>>> that no one in Al Qaeda wants to become known as a "crotch bomber".
>> Or the Undiebomber.
>
> I've seen that one around. I've also seen Pantiebomber and Johnson
> Bomber (as in burned off his ...).
I've usually heard him referred to as "the Pants Bomber" in the UK.
Remembering that to say something is "pants" in UK speak means that it
is .... crap.
David V. Loewe, Jr
<jgold...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>David Loewe, Jr. wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:52:10 -0500, Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>> David Wolff wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think everyone should make a concerted effort to *always* refer to the
>>>> Al Qaeda crotch bomber as "the Al Qaeda crotch bomber". My theory is
>>>> that no one in Al Qaeda wants to become known as a "crotch bomber".
>>> Or the Undiebomber.
>>
>> I've seen that one around. I've also seen Pantiebomber and Johnson
>> Bomber (as in burned off his ...).
>
>I've usually heard him referred to as "the Pants Bomber" in the UK.
>Remembering that to say something is "pants" in UK speak means that it
>is .... crap.
So...
The ritual mocking is proceeding apace?
--
"My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four.
Unless there are three other people."
- Orson Welles
Keith F. Lynch
> Seems to me, like the local christian evangelicals, these muslim
> extremists have extreme hangups about sex. Look at this idea of
> female circumcision, for instance. So if some Washington people
> and a few others pulled their heads together, and every time a
> terror strike happened, there followed a regular storm of jokes and
> ridicule based largely upon (perverted) human sexuality, extremisms
> would become *much* less attractive to those who are their natural
> ...utilities.
Indeed. Also, since terrorists hate freedom, how about responding to
terrorist attacks by *increasing* freedom instead of decreasing it.
Instead of spending billions of dollars to make war and make more
martyrs, why not spend the money to bring anyone in the terrorist
countries to the US and make them a US citizen if they publicly
repudiate Islam?
Also, the remains of any Muslim suicide terrorist should be buried
face down in a pig skin, and everyone should be made aware that this
is being done.
Martha Adams
wrote:
======================================================
Good thinking! Too bad nobody in Washington is thinking like
that. Maybe their definition of war is too narrow. "...Everyone
should be made aware," today's cyberspace said to be useful
to terrorists, is also ideal for circulating that PR, "face
down in a pig skin." *Good* idea.
Titeotwawki -- mha [2010 Jan 11]
cryptoguy
It's pretty much what General Pershing's forces did in the
Phillipines, circa 1912, to the Moslem Moro guerillas. It was
reportedly quite effective. They also greased their ammo with pig fat
for the same effect.
pt
David Loewe, Jr.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.asp
--
"Before the Gulf War started, the Iraqi Army was the the fourth
largest in the world. Now, its the second largest army in Iraq."
- Wall Street Journal, 15 March 1991
Cryptoengineer
Thanks.
pt
David Loewe, Jr.
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Thanks.
You're welcome.
William December Starr
"David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> said:
> Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Or the Undiebomber.
>
> I've seen that one around. I've also seen Pantiebomber and
> Johnson Bomber (as in burned off his ...).
I liked Abdulpantsonfire. Can't remember where I saw it though.
-- wds
William December Starr
"Martha Adams" <mh...@verizon.net> said:
> So if some Washington people and a few others pulled their heads
> together, and every time a terror strike happened, there followed
> a regular storm of jokes and ridicule based largely upon
> (perverted) human sexuality, extremisms would become *much* less
> attractive to those who are their natural ...utilities.
>
> There's some colonial American folk saying to effect the devil
> can't abide laughter. I think the same applies to major degree
> here. The usual response to terror suicides of horror and fear is
> the best PR the terrorists could want.
Not quite the same thing, but in Dean Ing's SOFT TARGETS there
was a U.S. government-led campaign to get the news media to mock
terrorists rather than paint them as big bad wolves. When this
was published in 1979 control of the news media was a lot more
concentrated than it is today, of course.
-- wds
Martha Adams
<dave...@charter.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:29:08 +0000, Jette Goldie
> <jgold...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> David Loewe, Jr. wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:52:10 -0500, Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> David Wolff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think everyone should make a concerted effort to *always* refer to
>>>>> the
>>>>> Al Qaeda crotch bomber as "the Al Qaeda crotch bomber". My theory is
>>>>> that no one in Al Qaeda wants to become known as a "crotch bomber".
>>>> Or the Undiebomber.
>>>
>>> I've seen that one around. I've also seen Pantiebomber and Johnson
>>> Bomber (as in burned off his ...).
>>
>> I've usually heard him referred to as "the Pants Bomber" in the UK.
>> Remembering that to say something is "pants" in UK speak means that it
>> is .... crap.
>
> So...
>
> The ritual mocking is proceeding apace?
==============================================
David, I can't see 'ritual mocking' here. I think this is
deadly serious business and I think this thread is on to
something very good. Why terrorists think attacks against
uninvolved and random people serves the terrorists objective
is not apparent to me. Because the attack is so unfocussed,
it is among other things, a problem to respond to it. Here
is a response that sort of auto-focusses, *where it's
needed.* I think I see in this thread a well defined and
appropriate solution to a hard problem; and why can't those
Washington types figure out basics and *do this*? ??
Titeotwawki -- mha [2010 Jan 13]
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:21:24 -0000, David V. Loewe, Jr
><dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:29:08 +0000, Jette Goldie
>> <jgold...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> David Loewe, Jr. wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:52:10 -0500, Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> David Wolff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think everyone should make a concerted effort to *always* refer to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Al Qaeda crotch bomber as "the Al Qaeda crotch bomber". My theory is
>>>>>> that no one in Al Qaeda wants to become known as a "crotch bomber".
>>>>> Or the Undiebomber.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen that one around. I've also seen Pantiebomber and Johnson
>>>> Bomber (as in burned off his ...).
>>>
>>> I've usually heard him referred to as "the Pants Bomber" in the UK.
>>> Remembering that to say something is "pants" in UK speak means that it
>>> is .... crap.
>>
>> So...
>>
>> The ritual mocking is proceeding apace?
>
>==============================================
>David, I can't see 'ritual mocking' here.
You've missed something here. The mocking is the ritual. When someone
does something that is so stupid that there is nothing left to do other
than mock them (for, say, blowing up their underwear and their "private
parts" with them), then I call it "ritual mocking" - as in "Let the
ritual of mocking of the miscreant begin!"
>I think this is
>deadly serious business and I think this thread is on to
>something very good. Why terrorists think attacks against
>uninvolved and random people serves the terrorists objective
>is not apparent to me. Because the attack is so unfocussed,
>it is among other things, a problem to respond to it. Here
>is a response that sort of auto-focusses, *where it's
>needed.* I think I see in this thread a well defined and
>appropriate solution
I wouldn't call it a solution so much as I would believe that it might
be a damper.
>to a hard problem; and why can't those
>Washington types figure out basics and *do this*? ??
--
"In matters of principle, stand like a rock; in matters of taste,
swim with the current."
- Thomas Jefferson
David Friedman
"David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I think I see in this thread a well defined and
> >appropriate solution
>
> I wouldn't call it a solution so much as I would believe that it might
> be a damper.
I'm afraid most of what I see is people taking pleasure in imagining a
triumphant solution to a problem which they can't actually do much about.
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of
_Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_,
Cambridge University Press.
Robin Johnson
> In article <op.u6deyqbtkuh...@your-vs85n1xobx.myhome.westell.com>,
> "Martha Adams" <mh...@verizon.net> said:
>
> > So if some Washington people and a few others pulled their heads
> > together, and every time a terror strike happened, there followed
> > a regular storm of jokes and ridicule based largely upon
> > (perverted) human sexuality, extremisms would become *much* less
> > attractive to those who are their natural ...utilities.
>
> > There's some colonial American folk saying to effect the devil
> > can't abide laughter. I think the same applies to major degree
> > here. The usual response to terror suicides of horror and fear is
> > the best PR the terrorists could want.
I have seen Abdul of the cunning stunt referred to as the bum-bomber:
here's a reference that uses the term butt-bomber (surprise: it's
USAn, from the US Naval Institute), and is referring to a blog
www.political-warfare.org
http://blog.usni.org/2009/09/29/how-to-counter-al-qaedas-butt-bombs/
(The comments are good reading too!)
I suspect this was originally in response to the attempt on the Saudi
Royal by the successful suicider who merely sprayed those nearby
with his own internal organs.