MT VOID, 09/11/20 -- Vol. 39, No. 11, Whole Number 2136

[evelynchim...@gmail.com]

THE MT VOID
Mt. Holz Science Fiction Society
09/11/20 -- Vol. 39, No. 11, Whole Number 2136

Co-Editor: Mark Leeper, mle...@optonline.net
Co-Editor: Evelyn Leeper, ele...@optonline.net
Sending Address: evelynchim...@gmail.com
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Topics:
Apology and Reminder (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
Thirty-Minute Commercials (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
THE AFRICAN QUEEN (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
NASFiC 2020 (con report by Keith F. Lynch)
NASFiC 2020 and Virtual Conventions (letters of comment
by Dorothy J. Heydt, Tim Merrigan, Keith F. Lynch, and
Dan Kimmel)
This Week's Reading (THE DECAMERON and THE CANTERBURY TALES)
(book and film comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

===================================================================

TOPIC: Apology and Reminder (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

Apologies for sending out last week's MT VOID (text version) with
no date in the Subject line.

Also a reminder that you can receive either a text or a PDF version
of the MT VOID (or both, I suppose). [-ecl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: Thirty-Minute Commercials (comments by Mark R. Leeper)

Comment from Mark Leeper's Journal July 6, 1990:

[At the time I wrote this originally this format of commercial
showed up on too many cable stations. Some of these abuses were
creeping into mainstream broadcasting Channels. The game has
shifted a bit but it is all still out there.]

I would like to comment on these delightful half-hour television
commercials that are showing up on cable. One piece of advice:
Don't believe them. While the commercials say at the beginning
that they will teach you in this half-hour something useful, they
give away almost nothing but paid testimonials. There are at least
three different courses on better memory and they each give away
free one memory technique, and each gives pretty much the same
technique. And you could find that same technique free by going to
the library and getting out a book on memory devices. Many of
them, including each of the memory courses, come on cassette. Now
the library book will have about 160 pages of about 300 words each-
-that's about 48,000 words. The cassettes will usually be eight
cassettes, each with a 50-minute lecture filled with music and
pauses for exercises. You will get roughly 6000 words per cassette
or a total of about 48,000 words. You are paying between $50 and
$100 to save yourself the effort of going to the library and
reading one book. But how much money is there is saying you can
change your life by going to the library and reading a book?
Instead, some guy claiming to be from "The Memory Institute"--you
won't find that one in any list of America's learning institutions-
-claims he learned these techniques from a man who went from being
an auto mechanic to a millionaire in two years. (Hey, at the rates
my mechanic charges, he is well on his way without any secrets!)

The one thing these commercials are good for is to get an idea of
what is important to us as Americans. How often have you heard
someone get on television and say for $49.95 he will send you a set
of cassettes that will teach you about national fiscal policy or
particle physics. No, the topics are cellulite, weight loss,
memory, car polishes, paint pads, improving you sex life, being a
supportive wife (hey, Evelyn, you want to take the "Light His Fire"
course? No, I thought not.), over-priced woks, and racks to stuff
into turkeys' rear ends to stand them up in the oven.

And now that this set of articles is over I don't feel I have to
watch another damn one of these stupid programs. [-mrl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: THE AFRICAN QUEEN (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

I noticed for the first time that Huston was showing a musical
contrast at the start. We first see the Africans singing an
English hymn which they appear to be doing because it is required
rather than from enjoyment, and Rose is not pleased with their
singing either. Then we see Charlie Allnut on the African Queen
listening to a boy playing a finger organ, and evidently enjoying
it quite a bit.

It's clear from Samuel's ravings that he was sent to Africa as a
missionary because he was not a good enough student to hold any
position in England. So his (Methodist) church sends the worst of
their ministers as foreign missionaries, implying that the souls of
the English deserve the best and the Africans get the scraps.
Contrast this with the Mormons, who send their best (at least in
terms of languages) as missionaries to other countries and the rest
are missionaries in the United States (or presumably other English-
speaking countries).

The Africans in the village are portrayed fairly well *by the
standards of the time* (thought the whole bit with Allnut throwing
his cigar stub away and several men fighting over it is an example
of a recurring racist trope). But the total ineptitude of the
African soldiers at the fort in handling their rifles (which is
strangely at odds with the fact that they do seem to hit the boat
fairly often) makes one wonder why the Germans even use them as
riflemen.

Charlie would have known better than to anchor near a tree-lined
shore at dusk; that's just where the insects would be.

After the shot of the African Queen stuck on the mud, and then the
rains upstream, I was sure I remembered a shot of the waterline of
the boat showing the rising water lifting it to float free. Of
course, there is no such shot.

Charlie is a Canadian, but he tells the German captain he is
British. That is because before 1946, Canadians were considered
British citizens/subjects. [-ecl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: NASFiC 2020 (con report by Keith F. Lynch)

The 2020 NASFiC is the third virtual con that I've interacted with.
(The first two were this year's Balticon and Newhere.) All three
were free. I won't say I've attended them. By "interacted" I'm
excluding any cons for which I've merely passively viewed events,
such as livestreamed Hugo award ceremonies. I have also attended
108 cons in person (including one NASFiC), starting with the 1980
Disclave and ending with last year's Philcon.

Like Balticon and unlike Newhere, much of the NASFiC's activity was
on Discord. I've been unable to sign up for a Discord account
without it demanding my birthday, which I'm unwilling to give. I'm
also unwilling to lie about it. Since Discord claims that
question's purpose is only to prove I'm over 13, for which my birth
year suffices since it was before 2007, and since nothing prevents
a child from lying about their birthday, they're either lying or
incompetent. It's my hope that all future virtual cons avoid using
Discord until they fix this. And that those cons not encourage
fans to lie to Discord about their birthdays. Or do cons really
want to select for dishonest members?

Other than a brief test to see if I could see and hear panels, the
first thing I viewed was the Prometheus Award ceremony, on
Saturday. It used Vimeo, which is sort of like Zoom's webinar mode
except without any text chat. C. J. Cherryh and Jane S. Fancher
won for ALLIANCE RISING. Poul Anderson won the Hall of Fame award
for "Sam Hall." I don't know why the ceremony was at the NASFiC
rather than at the Worldcon.

Immediately after that ceremony, in the same "room," was "Visions
of SF, Liberty, Human Rights: The Prometheus Awards over Four
Decades, from F. Paul Wilson and Robert Heinlein to Today." As the
panel approached the end of its hour, it was abruptly cut off
without notice as one of the panelists was talking.

My next event, on Sunday, was "Future of Policing: A Journey Planet
Fanzine Workshop." I arrived a little too early, so I got a screen
that said "Our program will begin shortly... Please Stand By!" It
continued to say that until well after the event was due to begin.
Finally, I tried reloading the Vimeo web page, and the program
began in the middle. Not a well-thought-out user interface.

They were apparently taking questions from the audience via
Discord. I think they want audience members to contribute articles
on the subject of policing to their fanzine. If so, I certainly
plan to submit one, as I have strong opinions, based on personal
experience and lots of reading on the topic.

Vimeo, unlike Zoom, cuts off the beginnings of the names of
panelists who are on the left edge of the screen. Also, it has
automatically generated captioning which is distracting and
inaccurate, hides the names of the panelists who are on the bottom
of the screen, and apparently can't be turned off.

Two hours ahead of time, I signed up via the website for the
kaffeeklatsch with Eric Flint. I got no immediate indication or
feedback as to whether there was an opening or whether the event
was already full. A few minutes before the event was to begin I
got two emails, from two different people, providing the Zoom URL
for the event. This was my first truly interactive event at the
con. It went well. The author had a video background which I
recognized as GRRM's Hugo presentation from last month.

I logged into the dead dog party, another Zoom event, as soon as it
was scheduled to start at 4 pm. Except for a four-hour gap when I
went to my brother's house for dinner and video watching, I
remained until the event ended more than twelve hours later, at
4:20 am. It had multiple breakout rooms, and fans were free to
move among them at will. It was nice being able to catch up with
people I hadn't seen in years. I told Brad Templeton that he's
prominently mentioned in a history of Google that I recently read,
and Kevin Standlee that his election work was mentioned in The
Washington Post. (I'm a fairly extreme extrovert. If interesting
people are around, I can stay up all weekend. If I'm alone, I'm
likely to fall asleep at any hour.)

In retrospect, I see that the NASFiC had other Zoom parties I could
have also attended.

To get online I use an Apple laptop which I place on my bare chest
as I recline on my chaise. The screen is at the best distance for
my eyes, the keyboard is at an acceptable distance for my hands,
and I act as a human heat sink, since Zoom gets the computer hot,
and it was already quite warm in my room. The only disadvantage is
that the bottom half of my face isn't visible in the video, since
the built-in camera is at the top of the screen, and if I angle the
screen down to compensate I can't see the screen clearly. Also, if
I'm back-lit that annoys other viewers, and if I'm front-lit the
resulting glare annoys me. Maybe I should instead set up in the
basement, where I'd have my thousands of books as a backdrop.

Later I read in the Washington Post that Zoom had a several-hour
total failure on the east coast later on Monday morning. So
perhaps it would be best if virtual cons had backup plans in case
of Zoom, Vimeo, or Google Hangouts failures.

I've heard that the NASFiC plans to put videos of its events
online. [-kfl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: NASFiC 2020 and Virtual Conventions (letters of comment by
Dorothy J. Heydt, Tim Merrigan, Keith F. Lynch, and Dan Kimmel)

In response to Evelyn's comments on NASFiC 2020 and virtual
conventions in the 09/04/20 issue of the MT VOID, Dorothy J. Heydt
writes:

[Evelyn wrote,] "After I posted the first part of this, Dorothy
J. Heydt asked whether the problem of time conflicts was true of
all conventions." [-ecl]

Actually, I don't remember *asking*, but rather stating a firm
conviction that this is a characteristic of all conventions, since
I can't remember a con I ever attended that didn't have at least
one. [-djh]

Regarding Dorothy's suggestion that recording the panels for later
viewing avoids some of the problems, Keith had said, "I can view
the panels, but can't ask questions of them...."

Dorothy responds:

Well, that's a him problem. I seldom have the audacity to ask
questions in the middle of a panel, or even after. [-djh]

Tim Merrigan writes regarding programming conflicts:

Mind you, I thought Con Jose back in 2002 were taking the piss when
they scheduled two panels about Buffy in consecutive timeslots--at
opposite ends of a very large convention centre. [-tm]

Keith F. Lynch responds:

At least they weren't simultaneous.

Maybe it was their way to encourage people to have broader
interests, rather than some fans spending the whole con in the
Buffy track, others spending the whole con in the art show, yet
others entirely in gaming, etc. [-kfl]

Dan Kimmel writes:

I was a panelist at the online NASFIC. It was my third online
convention. No, it's not like the real thing, and I very much
missed the social interaction, but I did enjoy doing the panels and
my readings were well-received. When we get to the other side of
the pandemic--where there's a vaccine Dr. Fauci approves of and not
simply Trump--I can foresee future conventions being a mix. People
unable to travel for whatever reason could also "attend," including
panelists. It might even get people to "try out" a con online and
then decide to attend in reality the next year. [-dmk]

===================================================================

TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

I have slacked off my reading of THE DECAMERON because the stories
had a certain sameness to them, especially since each day had a
theme (virtue rewarded or some such), so all that day's stories
were similar. (Does this sound like science fiction theme
anthologies?)

However, I recently watched Piers Paolo Pasolini's 1971 film THE
DECAMERON. It is 111 minutes long and has nine of the stories, so
none gets much time, especially given that the opening credits and
first film together take up 23 minutes.

The stories (in Boccaccio's order) are I-1 (deathbed confession),
II-5 (fake sister), III-1 (deaf-mute gardener), artist, IV-5
(brothers' revenge), V-4 (sleeping on the balcony), VI-5 (artist's
inspiration), VII-2 (oil jar), VII-10 (ghost says fornication not a
sin), and IX-10 (attempted seduction of friend's wife).

The artist looking at ordinary people and everyday goings-on to use
in his fresco gives Pasolini an excuse to have the camera linger on
people's faces. Pasolini's faces are like Jean-Jacques Annaud's in
THE NAME OF THE ROSE, distinctive and evocative of the time and
place of the film. (Or maybe the credit should go to Annaud's
casting crew: Gianni Arduini, Dominique Besnehard, Celestia Fox,
David Rubin, and Sabine Schroth. Usually there is a single casting
director--Pasolini's was Alberto De Stefanis--but Annaud had a
whole team.)

The story of the artist is split up as interstitial bits between
the stories of the second half of the film; I have no idea why,
since it is not as if it ties in to them in any way. At the end,
the artist asks why paint the scenes when the dreaming of them is
what is beautiful. This sounded a bit like Alfred Hitchcock's
claim that the actual filming was a bit of an anticlimax because
after he finished his (extensive) storyboarding, he already had
seen the whole film in his head.

There is plenty of sex and nudity (both sexes and all angles);
Pasolini did not have to worry about the MPA ratings for his
audience, which not surprisingly gave this film an X. Even today
this would probably end up NC-17, or (more likely) not submitted
for a rating at all.

So then I decided to watch Pasolini's THE CANTERBURY TALES as well.
(Given that I bought the two as a set on eBay, because it was only
marginally more expensive than buying THE DECAMERON alone, that's
not too surprising.) This is eight tales and is also 111 minutes
long.

The stories (in film order) are "The Merchant's Tale", "The Friar's
Tale", "The Cook's Tale", "The Miller's Tale", "The Wife of Bath's
Prologue", "The Reeve's Tale", "The Pardoner's Tale", and "The
Summoner's Tale".

This claimed to be "the original English-language version" though
the credits were in Italian. Also, it starts with a straight
credits sequence rather than showing credits over activity the way
THE DECAMERON does.

Pasolini had fewer stories to choose from for this film, but a
wider variety of plots and themes. He filmed a few brief framing
sequences with himself as Geoffrey Chaucer writing the tale, and in
one he is shown reading THE DECAMERON (a small in-joke).

In "The Merchant's Tale", the old man (played by the irrepressible
Hugh Griffith) is named Sir January and the young bride May as a
reference to the phrase "January and May marriage" (which seems to
be the same thing as a "May-December marriage"). In either case.
one person is in the spring of their life, while the other is in
their winter. Recall also that in Chaucer's time, the year started
in March, so both December and January came after May. When the
calendar changed, May-January gave way to May-December.

"The Cook's Tale" is quite strange: the main character is dressed
like the Little Tramp and is a Chaplin-esque fool, there are a
couple of Keystone Cops, and the whole story is very slapstick.

"The Miller's Tale" is "The Miller's Tale", and other stories have
fart jokes as well. Just so you know. (And there's lots of sex
and nudity in this film, just as in THE DECAMERON.) [-ecl]

===================================================================

Mark Leeper
mle...@optonline.net

Problematic elitist caste bullshit is implicit in
any superhero narrative that ascribes genetic origins
to the protags paranormal abilities--barely removed
from racism. (I vastly prefer activation-event
narratives that can randomly happen to anyone.)
--Charles Stross

[Paul Dormer]

In article <e97d95c8-abeb-4345...@googlegroups.com>,

evelynchim...@gmail.com () wrote:

>
> Tim Merrigan writes regarding programming conflicts:
>
> Mind you, I thought Con Jose back in 2002 were taking the piss when
> they scheduled two panels about Buffy in consecutive timeslots--at
> opposite ends of a very large convention centre. [-tm]

That was me, responding to Tim.

[Paul Dormer]

In article <e97d95c8-abeb-4345...@googlegroups.com>,
evelynchim...@gmail.com () wrote:

>
>

> So then I decided to watch Pasolini's THE CANTERBURY TALES

Incidentally, have you ever seen the film A Canterbury Tale? It's very
little to do with Chaucer, a wartime piece from Powell and Pressburger
about three people thrown together by circumstance on the way to
Canterbury, and a man who puts glue in women's hair. A curious film, but
worth watching. It was on TV recently and I saw it again.

[Scott Dorsey]

ele...@optonline.net <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:
>TOPIC: Thirty-Minute Commercials (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
>
>Comment from Mark Leeper's Journal July 6, 1990:
>
>[At the time I wrote this originally this format of commercial
>showed up on too many cable stations. Some of these abuses were
>creeping into mainstream broadcasting Channels. The game has
>shifted a bit but it is all still out there.]

Infomercials were more than half a century old back in 1990, and are
rapidly approaching the century mark. Here is an exciting radio
program from 1933:

http://www.panix.com/~kludge/radio17.mp3

Fidelity here is not great, and the band is a little bit on the loose side,
but the product does exactly what they claim.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Tim Merrigan]

Until sometime in the late 50s or early 60s it was not uncommon for
variety and similar shows to incorporate commercials into the
programming. That sounds like this is more of that than that the
programming is specifically designed to promote the product. So, I'm
not sure it qualifies as an infomercial. If this is an infomercial,
so was the Texaco Star Theater.
--

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation, from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Kevrob]

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 3:48:21 PM UTC-4, Tim Merrigan wrote:
> On 13 Sep 2020 19:18:05 -0000, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> >ele...@optonline.net <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>TOPIC: Thirty-Minute Commercials (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
> >>
> >>Comment from Mark Leeper's Journal July 6, 1990:
> >>
> >>[At the time I wrote this originally this format of commercial
> >>showed up on too many cable stations. Some of these abuses were
> >>creeping into mainstream broadcasting Channels. The game has
> >>shifted a bit but it is all still out there.]
> >
> >Infomercials were more than half a century old back in 1990, and are
> >rapidly approaching the century mark. Here is an exciting radio
> >program from 1933:
> >
> >http://www.panix.com/~kludge/radio17.mp3
> >
> >Fidelity here is not great, and the band is a little bit on the loose side,
> >but the product does exactly what they claim.
> >--scott
>
> Until sometime in the late 50s or early 60s it was not uncommon for
> variety and similar shows to incorporate commercials into the
> programming. That sounds like this is more of that than that the
> programming is specifically designed to promote the product. So, I'm
> not sure it qualifies as an infomercial. If this is an infomercial,
> so was the Texaco Star Theater.
> --
>

I remember the cast of "The Beverly Hillbillies" appearing in
Kellogg's Corn Flakes spots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqgrlpYxYF4

The SUPERMAN TV cast flogged them, too. Of course,
on the radio, The Man of Tomorrow was sponsored
by Kellogg's Pep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQYmqYC2sjY

...and introducing Sugar Smacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfbeXrLzZW8

Captain Marvel hung out with Mr Tawny, but Kal-El
was pals with Tony!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHqzDQLT-iY

--
Kevin R

--
Kevin R

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <ef434506-22a7-476b...@googlegroups.com>,

And I remember whoeveritwas played Tom Corbett, Space Cadet,
flogging Wheaties.

Also, meeting the studio audience after the show (which was
broadcast live), and answering questions about space and science
and stuff. Which the actor could not have been expected to know;
so they stood him in front of a curtain with a plug in his ear,
and Willy Ley on the other side with a microphone.

/google

Frankie Thomas was his name.

.... and IMDB also had a line with the same series title and "in
development." No other information. Dear me.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

[Paul Dormer]

In article <actslft6jjm8g23qs...@4ax.com>, tp...@ca.rr.com

(Tim Merrigan) wrote:

>
> Until sometime in the late 50s or early 60s it was not uncommon for
> variety and similar shows to incorporate commercials into the
> programming.

I watch live baseball on BT Sports in the UK and it would appear that
baseball coverage still does incorporate commercials into the commentary.
But it seems BT are not allowed to show these. So you hear a couple of
words of the ad and then suddenly the screen blanks to the BT Sports logo,
hold music is played, and then they cut back to the game.

Not sure why they have to do this. It's not as if I'm like to try and
buy something being advertised when the nearest place I could is over
3000 miles away.

[Jay E. Morris]

I know sports commentators will often be hyping other network shows
during the game. Perhaps it's BT not wanting to have mentioned shows not
available? Or on another network?

[Paul Dormer]

In article <rjo0g2$17n$1...@dont-email.me>, mor...@epsilon3.com (Jay E.

Morris) wrote:

>
>
> I know sports commentators will often be hyping other network shows
> during the game. Perhaps it's BT not wanting to have mentioned shows
> not available? Or on another network?

I recorded last night's Sunday night game and I've just been watching it.
It's not the commentators doing it, it's an actual short ad interpolated
in the middle of the commentary - not a full ad break. They didn't cut
away in time for a couple, so I did see the start of an ad for Grubhub,
who I don't believe deliver round my way. The other was for some offer
with T-Mobile.

Certainly on the NFL coverage on Sky, you're always getting ads for
upcoming shows, some of which are even shown over here (but not at the
time and day advertised).

[Jay E. Morris]

Oh, those. I think it's because they don't want to go to a full
commercial break but it's time to earn some money. No idea on those.

[Kevrob]

Other live broadcasts have done this. As early as 1926, Bulova
produced its first radio commercial. "At the tone, its 8 PM,
B-U-L-O-V-A Bulova watch time." I used to hear a version of this
on New York radio decades later. That was likely all-news WCBS
(880 AM) or WINS (1010 wins New York!)

The in-game, mid-commentary ad is known as a "drop-in." Baseball
and other live sports don't have "hard breaks" requiring action to
stop and ads shown. A baseball half inning can have a side set
down in as little as three pitches, or the team at the plate could
"bat around." The NY Times explained the drop-in, here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/sports/baseball/radio-broadcasts-balance-baseball-with-advertising.html

[Two years ago the Mets moved to WCBS radio, when the Yankees
took over WFAN (formerly WNBC)]

--
Kevin R

[Paul Dormer]

In article <1f3757d5-abd2-419f...@googlegroups.com>,

kev...@my-deja.com (Kevrob) wrote:

>
> The in-game, mid-commentary ad is known as a "drop-in." Baseball
> and other live sports don't have "hard breaks" requiring action to
> stop and ads shown. A baseball half inning can have a side set
> down in as little as three pitches, or the team at the plate could
> "bat around." The NY Times explained the drop-in, here:
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/sports/baseball/radio-broadcasts-ba
> lance-baseball-with-advertising.html

Although in the cases I saw yesterday, it wasn't a case of "The Dodgers
opening line-up is sponsored by..." it was a short ad with visuals in
between pitches. Obviously, BT get no warning of these, so you get the
first 10 seconds or more before they can cut away.

Cricket doesn't have this problem, as every six deliveries the bowling
changes end requiring some re-organisation of the fielders, so there's
enough time to fit in a full break.

Football, on the other hand (association, that is), I gather that fans
would get very disgruntled if the 45 minutes of each half were ever
interrupted by adverts, even on channels which do have ads. I don't
watch it myself, but I've heard stories about games being broadcast from
the US (perhaps when they hosted the World Cup) where they cut away for
an ad break, only to miss a goal.

The other thing is, it looks like more ad time is allowed on US TV
compared to the UK. NFL coverage on Sky, they fill in with pundits in a
studio in London discussing the game, other games going on, and talking
via video with further pundits in the US. MLB on BT, they don't have
this and the ad breaks are filled with programme trailers (that don't
count as ads) and just the BT Sports logo.

The NFL makes the Super Bowl available each year to the BBC who otherwise
don't do much live coverage and the BBC has no adverts whatsoever. Lots
of studio discussions for that.

[Kevrob]

On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 11:22:50 AM UTC-4, Paul Dormer wrote:
> In article <1f3757d5-abd2-419f...@googlegroups.com>,
> kev...@my-deja.com (Kevrob) wrote:
>
> >
> > The in-game, mid-commentary ad is known as a "drop-in." Baseball
> > and other live sports don't have "hard breaks" requiring action to
> > stop and ads shown. A baseball half inning can have a side set
> > down in as little as three pitches, or the team at the plate could
> > "bat around." The NY Times explained the drop-in, here:
> >
> > https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/sports/baseball/radio-broadcasts-ba
> > lance-baseball-with-advertising.html
>
> Although in the cases I saw yesterday, it wasn't a case of "The Dodgers
> opening line-up is sponsored by..." it was a short ad with visuals in
> between pitches. Obviously, BT get no warning of these, so you get the
> first 10 seconds or more before they can cut away.
>
> Cricket doesn't have this problem, as every six deliveries the bowling
> changes end requiring some re-organisation of the fielders, so there's
> enough time to fit in a full break.
>

We get that when a new pitcher is brought in, but only sometimes.
When the team that had been fielding comes to bat, by rule, the
broadcasters are allowed 2 minutes to sell stuff.

> Football, on the other hand (association, that is), I gather that fans
> would get very disgruntled if the 45 minutes of each half were ever
> interrupted by adverts, even on channels which do have ads. I don't
> watch it myself, but I've heard stories about games being broadcast from
> the US (perhaps when they hosted the World Cup) where they cut away for
> an ad break, only to miss a goal.
>
> The other thing is, it looks like more ad time is allowed on US TV
> compared to the UK. NFL coverage on Sky, they fill in with pundits in a
> studio in London discussing the game, other games going on, and talking
> via video with further pundits in the US. MLB on BT, they don't have
> this and the ad breaks are filled with programme trailers (that don't
> count as ads) and just the BT Sports logo.
>
> The NFL makes the Super Bowl available each year to the BBC who otherwise
> don't do much live coverage and the BBC has no adverts whatsoever. Lots
> of studio discussions for that.

I've seen parts of soccer football games* where the network
shrinks the image and runs a short ad, sometimes graphics only,
in a separate "box" - not unlike a pop-up on a computer screen.
Audio usually remains sounds from the playing field plus the
commentators. NHL hockey games do this sometimes during face-
offs, as the players arrange themselves. The image expands
to full-size, ideally just before the linesman or ref drops
the puck. There's also putting the graphical ad in a frame
around the picture. CGI allows TV to show different ads
on the walls bounding the playing field: 1 ad if you are
watching the game in person, another in the home-team TV
market and yet another in the visiting team's video feed!
This can bother traditionalists. I think it's charming if
I see an ad for local or regional businesses I don't shop at
when I watch a game from behind "enemy territory." :)

* I may watch an entire match, rarely: if a US National
Team is in either of the world cups, for example, and the
game isn't on opposite a baseball, hockey, basketball or
gridiron football contest of some interest. I may have
attended more live soccer matches than watched televised
ones, as that sport was one of many my Dad coached at the high
school level (13-18 year-olds.) When I was a lad, Dad would
often bring my brothers and I along to games and track meets
on a Saturday. I barely played it as a kid, though, and our
family was unusual in 1960s USA in that we actually _owned_
a soccer ball, and knew about most of the rules! [Understanding
them was another thing....]

--
Kevin R

[Keith F. Lynch]

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> CGI allows TV to show different ads on the walls bounding the
> playing field: 1 ad if you are watching the game in person, another
> in the home-team TV market and yet another in the visiting team's
> video feed! This can bother traditionalists.

What about other sports? In auto racing, it's common to plaster the
cars with ads. Would the advertisers get angry if the TV networks
were to use CGI to replace those ads with a different set of ads?

Getting back to ball games, CGI could be used to turn the players'
uniforms into ads, or to put an ad on the ball.

Okay, the ball would be too small for any ads on it to be visible to
TV viewers. But what about to a live audience? It's possible to
project an image onto a ball in motion. See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuSUHuSceYc
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

[Kevrob]

On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 8:17:49 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > CGI allows TV to show different ads on the walls bounding the
> > playing field: 1 ad if you are watching the game in person, another
> > in the home-team TV market and yet another in the visiting team's
> > video feed! This can bother traditionalists.
>
> What about other sports? In auto racing, it's common to plaster the
> cars with ads. Would the advertisers get angry if the TV networks
> were to use CGI to replace those ads with a different set of ads?
>

I bet they would! So would the owners of the cars. Sponsors of
racing teams would not pay anywhere near what they do to have
primary placement on cars and/or the drivers' suits, and secondary
placement fees would also drop, if the networks could replace
the images.

> Getting back to ball games, CGI could be used to turn the players'
> uniforms into ads, or to put an ad on the ball.
>

Association footballers have long worn company logos on their "kit"
much more prominently than the club crest. I know Arsenal, in England's
Premier League, mostly from reading "Fever Pitch." But it's easy to
recognize one of their game day shirts, as on its chest is written in
cruel runes, "Fly Emirates" - at a cost of 200m in sterling over 5 years.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43113951

This "player as walking billboard" (or hoarding) has infected the
NBA, although the team logos and sigils are still larger than the
ads. Not so women's league, which earns much less money. Major
League Baseball allows such patches on practice clothing, but not
yet on the game-worn uniforms, save for the logos of the athletic
wear companies. The Mets wear a Nike "swoosh."

> Okay, the ball would be too small for any ads on it to be visible to
> TV viewers. But what about to a live audience? It's possible to
> project an image onto a ball in motion. See
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuSUHuSceYc
> --

There's the old joke about good hitters who can pick up the
stitching on a pitched ball, usually used for the likes of Ty
Cobb, Ted Williams or Pete Rose. One version is "Rose not
only could tell what you had pitched him before he hit it,
he could tell you if it was a Rawlings or a Spalding."

I have heard very fast fastballs won't show the red color of the
fastball. By very fast, I mean the 95-100 mph range. Breaking
balls and change-ups thrown 15-20 mph slower will show a bit of
the red seams. I've heard it explained that the NL Cy Young award
winner of the last two seasons, NY Met Jacob deGrom, throws even
his change-up too fast for batters to pick up the spin by this
method.

ObSF/Comics parody:

The changing symbols on the chest of "SUPERDUPERMAN" as
drawn by Wally Wood for MAD.

http://whatwoodwallydo.blogspot.com/2009/02/superduperman.html

The film based on the comics series, MYSTERY MEN, had
Captain Amazing covered in decals like a NASCAR Chevy.

https://yearwithkinnear.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/captain-amazing-mystery-men-movie-h1.jpg

--
Kevin R

[Paul Dormer]

In article <rjrlja$dp5$1...@reader1.panix.com>, k...@KeithLynch.net (Keith F.

Lynch) wrote:

>
> What about other sports? In auto racing, it's common to plaster the
> cars with ads. Would the advertisers get angry if the TV networks
> were to use CGI to replace those ads with a different set of ads?

I've noticed in baseball that there is usually an ad on the wall behind
the catcher, and it changes during the game. I finally worked out that
it wasn't a physical ad at the stadium but a green screen. When they
play a pitch back in slo-mo, the ad disappears.

Conversely, in cricket, there is often a company logo painted on the
grass beyond the batting area. This has been painted in false
perspective to give the appearance of the logo standing up on the grass
behind the players. This is not CGI. When they change to a different
camera you can see the logo distorted. (And my brother has been to some
games and confirmed this is the case.)

[Paul Dormer]

In article <fdbd4959-c80b-47fa...@googlegroups.com>,

kev...@my-deja.com (Kevrob) wrote:

>
> This "player as walking billboard" (or hoarding) has infected the
> NBA,

I remember a sketch from a TV show many years ago. I don't know how well
snooker is known in the US but it's a popular TV sport in the UK.
Traditionally players wear somewhat formal clothes, often a dinner
jacket/tuxedo or a waistcoat. Often they wear bow ties. See this
picture of six-time world champion Steve Davis:

https://i.eurosport.com/2016/04/17/1837960-38756431-2560-1440.jpg

Nowadays, company logos are sewn onto their jackets and waistcoats. In
the sketch I remember, a snooker player is being interviewed about this
and he says the logos must be done tastefully. He then turns to play a
shot and as he bends over, you can see the logo for a haemorrhoid
preparation on the seat of his trousers.

[Tim Merrigan]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 16:22 +0100 (BST), p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul
Dormer) wrote:

>The NFL makes the Super Bowl available each year to the BBC who otherwise
>don't do much live coverage and the BBC has no adverts whatsoever. Lots
>of studio discussions for that.

But the ads are the only reason to watch the Super Bowl.

[Peter Trei]

Robert Sheckley wrote a story in which part of the disbelief that had to be
suspended was that people would willingly wear clothes which had the
maker's labels and logo on the *outside*.

At the time of writing, it was unbelievable that manufacturers would be
that crass, or that people would have such poor taste as to buy
such things.

pt

[Kevrob]

I wore that sort of thing in the early 60s, but only because
my Dad was a high school coach and later district athletic
director, and companies like champion would send him free
samples. The samples wound up on the backs of his 9 kids!
Some of them used the names of client universities, so I
might get asked "Oh, does someone in your family go to Indiana
University," and I'd shrug and point out that it was just
a "cool shirt."

Rene Lacoste's crocodile logo had emerged before Sheckley was
born. The Lacoste/Izod polo shirts became iconic, and later
much imitated.

https://www.lacoste.com/gb/lacoste-inside/story.html

--
Kevin R

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <c1a83ca9-9a85-4081...@googlegroups.com>,

Yes, but the crocodile logo (which I have seen) is very small.
Almost tasteful. Unlike some of the other visible trademarks
we've been discussing.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <pqj4mfhh31skd0gla...@4ax.com>,

Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 16:22 +0100 (BST), p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul
>Dormer) wrote:
>
>>The NFL makes the Super Bowl available each year to the BBC who otherwise
>>don't do much live coverage and the BBC has no adverts whatsoever. Lots
>>of studio discussions for that.
>
>But the ads are the only reason to watch the Super Bowl.

I wouldn't even go that far. Various online newssites (I usually
look at Slate) will replay the best (and worst) of the ads the
day after.

[Gary McGath]

On 9/16/20 1:48 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
> Robert Sheckley wrote a story in which part of the disbelief that had to be
> suspended was that people would willingly wear clothes which had the
> maker's labels and logo on the *outside*.
>
> At the time of writing, it was unbelievable that manufacturers would be
> that crass, or that people would have such poor taste as to buy
> such things.

It's gotten seriously hard to avoid underwear that has the logo on the
outside. I thank eBay for keeping it possible.

What I hate most is the implied assumption that I'm going to wear my
pants low with my underwear showing so that people can see the advertising.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
The Magic Battery: A tale of magic and change in Reformation Germany
https://garymcgath.com/TMB

[Keith F. Lynch]

Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
> It's gotten seriously hard to avoid underwear that has the logo on
> the outside. I thank eBay for keeping it possible.

I've always simply assumed that the side with the label is intended to
be the inside and the back. Similarly with shirts.

[Peter Trei]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 9:32:45 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > It's gotten seriously hard to avoid underwear that has the logo on
> > the outside. I thank eBay for keeping it possible.
> I've always simply assumed that the side with the label is intended to
> be the inside and the back. Similarly with shirts.

Keith has no idea what I'm talking about.
Example:

https://us.louisvuitton.com/eng-us/products/lv-leaf-discharge-t-shirt-nvprod2220146v

Pt

[Keith F. Lynch]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

> Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>> But the ads are the only reason to watch the Super Bowl.

Agreed. I'm curious what people are willing to spend millions of
dollars to be seen just once for 30 seconds. But I never watch them,
as they're always intersersed with a very boring ball game.

> I wouldn't even go that far. Various online newssites (I usually
> look at Slate) will replay the best (and worst) of the ads the
> day after.

Interesting. Thanks.

[Keith F. Lynch]

Paul Dormer <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
> I've noticed in baseball that there is usually an ad on the wall
> behind the catcher, and it changes during the game. I finally
> worked out that it wasn't a physical ad at the stadium but a
> green screen.

If it's literally a green screen, what keeps the ad from overflowing
into other green areas, such as the real or fake grass?

I thought it *was* a physical ad, intended to be seen by the live
audience. And by the athletes and employees. CGI lets physical
ads be overwritten with other ads by TV networks.

If it is literally a green screen, I guess Fenway Park was prescient,
being equipped with a very large one since 1947.

> When they play a pitch back in slo-mo, the ad disappears.

What's there instead?

> Conversely, in cricket, there is often a company logo painted on
> the grass beyond the batting area. This has been painted in false
> perspective to give the appearance of the logo standing up on the
> grass behind the players. This is not CGI.

I'm reminded of this classic photo of a Windows error message in the
sky. "Proof" that we're in a (badly written) simulation.
https://geekologie.com/2020/01/a-glitch-in-the-matrix-floating-error-me.php

[Keith F. Lynch]

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:

> Peter Trei wrote:
>> Robert Sheckley wrote a story in which part of the disbelief that
>> had to be suspended was that people would willingly wear clothes
>> which had the maker's labels and logo on the *outside*.

>> At the time of writing, it was unbelievable that manufacturers would
>> be that crass, or that people would have such poor taste as to buy
>> such things.

> I wore that sort of thing in the early 60s, but only because my Dad
> was a high school coach and later district athletic director, and
> companies like champion would send him free samples. The samples
> wound up on the backs of his 9 kids!

I've read that souvenir "champion" t-shirts are printed ahead of large
sporting events, with equal numbers declaring that each team won. The
incorrect half of them are sold for pennies in the third world.

So if you ever see a photo in National Geographic of some native tribe
who are all dressed in clothes celebrating the winner of some year's
Super Bowl or World Series or something, don't rely on those clothes
to be accurate.

[Keith F. Lynch]

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> I have heard very fast fastballs won't show the red color of the
> fastball. By very fast, I mean the 95-100 mph range

You call that fast? Here's what it looks like a baseball is thrown
at 1050 mph: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqidD7kVnxY

[Kevrob]

This is all true.

When I typed "champion" I should have capitalized it.
It is a ~90-year-old athletic wear brand. Their trademark
is "Champion" with a stylized "C," or just the "C."

--
Kevin R

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 02:04:17 GMT, Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com>
wrote:

$930.00

for a T-shirt? Wow!


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Paul Dormer]

In article <pqj4mfhh31skd0gla...@4ax.com>, tp...@ca.rr.com

(Tim Merrigan) wrote:

>
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 16:22 +0100 (BST), p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul
> Dormer) wrote:
>
> >The NFL makes the Super Bowl available each year to the BBC who
otherwise
> >don't do much live coverage and the BBC has no adverts whatsoever.
Lots
> >of studio discussions for that.
>
> But the ads are the only reason to watch the Super Bowl.

:-)

Of course, we don't get your ads over here, anyway. I tend to watch the
Super Bowl on Sky, not the BBC, because it's the same group of presenters
I've been watching through the season, and Sky does have ads. But I'm
not sure how much a slot would be worth in those ad breaks as the NFL is
still fairly niche, and the game usually ends at about four in the
morning.

[Paul Dormer]

In article <rju8tu$m0o$1...@dont-email.me>, ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com

(Gary McGath) wrote:

>
> It's gotten seriously hard to avoid underwear that has the logo on the
> outside. I thank eBay for keeping it possible.

No such problem over here. I always buy my vests and pants :-) from
Marks and Spencers. There is a small tag on both with washing
instructions that have M&S on them, and that's it.

[Paul Dormer]

In article <rjuj2l$2ik$2...@reader1.panix.com>, k...@KeithLynch.net (Keith F.

Lynch) wrote:

>
> I've read that souvenir "champion" t-shirts are printed ahead of large
> sporting events, with equal numbers declaring that each team won. The
> incorrect half of them are sold for pennies in the third world.

This was alluded to in an episode of the TV show Preacher where someone
in a third-world country is wearing a Super Bowl winner tee-shirt for
which ever team it was had lost the previous year. (It was an Atlanta
Falcons shirt in the episode Pig, according to the IMDb.)

[Paul Dormer]

In article <rjuio7$2ik$1...@reader1.panix.com>, k...@KeithLynch.net (Keith F.

Lynch) wrote:

>
> > When they play a pitch back in slo-mo, the ad disappears.
>
> What's there instead?

A blank green area.

[Peter Trei]

Understand that the main purpose of this shirt is to imply "I *really* want you to think I'm rich." That's
why mid-level luxury goods such as Gucci, LV, etc, have prominent logos.

When you get to the *really* high end stuff, the wearers usually don't give a damn, and the logos become
far more subdued, if they are present at all. Such people are more comfortable with their wealth, and don't
need to flaunt it.

Example: Hermes.
https://www.hermes.com/us/en/product/v-neck-jacket-HP20LKD15BHOMME/

pt

[Gary McGath]

On 9/16/20 10:04 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 9:32:45 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>>> It's gotten seriously hard to avoid underwear that has the logo on
>>> the outside. I thank eBay for keeping it possible.
>> I've always simply assumed that the side with the label is intended to
>> be the inside and the back. Similarly with shirts.
>
> Keith has no idea what I'm talking about.

He was replying to me. You weren't talking about anything.

[Gary McGath]

On 9/16/20 10:53 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

> I've read that souvenir "champion" t-shirts are printed ahead of large
> sporting events, with equal numbers declaring that each team won. The
> incorrect half of them are sold for pennies in the third world.
>
> So if you ever see a photo in National Geographic of some native tribe
> who are all dressed in clothes celebrating the winner of some year's
> Super Bowl or World Series or something, don't rely on those clothes
> to be accurate.

In 1960, Mad Magazine printed an issue with two covers, one on the back
and upside-down relative to the other. One congratulated Kennedy for
winning the election, the other congratulated Nixon.

[Peter Trei]

On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 9:05:58 AM UTC-4, Gary McGath wrote:
> On 9/16/20 10:04 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 9:32:45 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> >> Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >>> It's gotten seriously hard to avoid underwear that has the logo on
> >>> the outside. I thank eBay for keeping it possible.
> >> I've always simply assumed that the side with the label is intended to
> >> be the inside and the back. Similarly with shirts.
> >
> > Keith has no idea what I'm talking about.
> He was replying to me. You weren't talking about anything.

You were replying to me, and Keith chimed in.

I'm in Keith's killfile; he never replies directly to me, though he'll often
respond at second hand, as he did here.

pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <XnsAC3B606644...@144.76.35.198>,

But not only is LV advertising, the wearer is advertising that he
can afford a 950-clams T-shirt.

[Tim Merrigan]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 06:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei

At those prices ($14,045 for the pictured outfit, excluding shoes),
one hopes they're, at least, tailored or bespoke.

[Peter Trei]

That outfit was from the 'Off the rack' section, so, nope.
I do confess I picked a more expensive than usual outfit, to make the point.

Even on Saville Row, a bespoke suit is 'only' 3k-10k UKP.

Women's one-off designer gowns can reach $20k
(and you probably will be dissed if you wear it twice)

But generally, once you pass a certain point, logos and labels are subdued or
absent.

Myself, most of my wardrobe is from Sears. I do splurge on shoes at >$200.

pt

[Paul Dormer]

In article <rjvn5k$1qj$2...@dont-email.me>, ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com

(Gary McGath) wrote:

>
> In 1960, Mad Magazine printed an issue with two covers, one on the back
> and upside-down relative to the other. One congratulated Kennedy for
> winning the election, the other congratulated Nixon.

In Citizen Kane, there's a scene after Kane loses an election where one
of his newspapers are shown to have two headlines prepared, one something
like "Kane victory" the other "Fraud at the polls".

I re-watched last year a 1961 British SF film The Day the Earth Caught
Fire. A rather good film despite its dodgy premise that simultaneous
nuclear test explosions could knock the Earth out of its orbit. (And
even if it did, that it could cause an eclipse of the sun to be several
days early.) Michael Caine has a bit part as a policeman.

At the end, there's an attempt to use further explosions to correct
things. The film is centred around a newspaper - the real Daily Express,
with the real editor playing the editor - and at the end they've prepared
two headlines: World Doomed and World Saved. Then the film cuts to a
view of the skyline of London and The End. It was supposed to be
ambiguous, but for US distribution they added the sound of church bells,
suggesting the world has indeed been saved.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <memo.20200917...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,

Or else, as in WWII, the ringing of church bells was designated
as a signal of emergency (i.e., German invasion) and forbidden
for ordinary use.

If the producer/scriptwriter/director/studio boss wants a
lady-and-the-tiger ending, they can have one.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <trr6mfdn5i9boank5...@4ax.com>,

Probably not. They expect you, if a man, to find a tailor after
purchase, or, if a woman, to do it yourself.

[rksh...@rosettacondot.com]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

I would venture that it's been some decades since anyone expected a woman to
alter their own clothes as a matter of course, especially for someone with
income or wealth that allows them to regularly spend a year's minimum wage on
a single outfit. The (very) few people I've known that were in that range had
at least one person employed to handle their day-to-day needs (shopping,
scheduling various appointments, paying bills, etc.). They'd be more likely to
have the necessary measurements taken and the garment show up when alterations
were complete. If they were sewing it would be because it was a hobby.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

[Mike Van Pelt]

In article <qGt2I...@kithrup.com>,

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

And advertising that he's stupid enough to spend $950 on
a T-shirt.

"A fool and his money are soon parted... But how did they
ever get together in the first place?"

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

[Keith F. Lynch]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

> Paul Dormer <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
>> ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com (Gary McGath) wrote:
>>> In 1960, Mad Magazine printed an issue with two covers, one on the
>>> back and upside-down relative to the other. One congratulated
>>> Kennedy for winning the election, the other congratulated Nixon.

ObFandom: In 1992, The WSFA Journal printed three near-identical
issues, one congratulating each of the major presidential candidates
for winning. (The third was Ross Perot, not the Libertarian candidate,
Andre Marrou.) It's online at http://wsfa.org/journal/j92/b1/

>> In Citizen Kane, there's a scene after Kane loses an election where
>> one of his newspapers are shown to have two headlines prepared, one
>> something like "Kane victory" the other "Fraud at the polls".

The current president has already said if he doesn't win re-election,
that will be proof of massive fraud at the polls.

>> I re-watched last year a 1961 British SF film The Day the Earth
>> Caught Fire. A rather good film despite its dodgy premise that
>> simultaneous nuclear test explosions could knock the Earth out
>> of its orbit.

Lots of people have no sense of scale. Nukes are good at knocking
down buildings and setting things on fire several miles away in all
directions. But on an astronomical scale, they're puny. A one
megaton nuke could just barely heat one cubic kilometer of seawater
by one degree Celsius. A nuke *could* deflect a large asteroid that
was due to strike Earth, but only if it's detonated years before
the predicted impact, as it could change the asteroid's velocity by
less than one centimeter per second.

>> At the end, there's an attempt to use further explosions to correct
>> things. The film is centred around a newspaper - the real Daily
>> Express, with the real editor playing the editor - and at the end
>> they've prepared two headlines: World Doomed and World Saved.
>> Then the film cuts to a view of the skyline of London and The End.
>> It was supposed to be ambiguous, but for US distribution they added
>> the sound of church bells, suggesting the world has indeed been saved.

In the 1951 The Day the Earth Stood Still, a real newscaster at a real
DC TV station plays himself.

> Or else, as in WWII, the ringing of church bells was designated as
> a signal of emergency (i.e., German invasion) and forbidden for
> ordinary use.

What would be the point in such a warning in case of literal doomsday?
So people can hide from the end of the world in underground shelters?

[Keith F. Lynch]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

> But not only is LV advertising, the wearer is advertising that he
> can afford a 950-clams T-shirt.

Some people like to boast of how much money they spent for how little.
I prefer to boast of how much stuff I get for how little money.

There's supposedly someone who traded a paperclip for a house (in
multiple transactions with multiple people).

[Keith F. Lynch]

Paul Dormer <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
> ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com (Gary McGath) wrote:
>> It's gotten seriously hard to avoid underwear that has the logo on
>> the outside. I thank eBay for keeping it possible.

> No such problem over here. I always buy my vests and pants :-)
> from Marks and Spencers. There is a small tag on both with washing
> instructions that have M&S on them, and that's it.

I usually buy clothes at Target. I've never seen underwear with the
logo on the outside there. But then I focus only on solid whites,
i.e. if I'm looking for underpants I don't approach shelves full of
colorful clothes to see what they are.

[Tim Merrigan]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:11:17 -0000 (UTC), m...@shell.calweb.com (Mike
Van Pelt) wrote:

>In article <qGt2I...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>In article <XnsAC3B606644...@144.76.35.198>,
>>Kerr-Mudd,John <nots...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>>$930.00
>>>
>>>for a T-shirt? Wow!
>>
>>But not only is LV advertising, the wearer is advertising that he
>>can afford a 950-clams T-shirt.
>
>And advertising that he's stupid enough to spend $950 on
>a T-shirt.
>
>"A fool and his money are soon parted... But how did they
>ever get together in the first place?"

Won the lottery. Inherited it. Two options.

[Scott Dorsey]

<rksh...@rosettacondot.com> wrote:
>I would venture that it's been some decades since anyone expected a woman to
>alter their own clothes as a matter of course, especially for someone with
>income or wealth that allows them to regularly spend a year's minimum wage on
>a single outfit. The (very) few people I've known that were in that range had
>at least one person employed to handle their day-to-day needs (shopping,
>scheduling various appointments, paying bills, etc.). They'd be more likely to
>have the necessary measurements taken and the garment show up when alterations
>were complete. If they were sewing it would be because it was a hobby.

I was in Bangkok many years ago, and I saw a guy who had absolutely the best
tailored suit ever. It was as if it was part of his body, it was perfectly
fit. There was no extra fabric anywhere, but neither was it tight in any place
and it had proper cuffs and vents like it is supposed to. So I asked him
where he got his suit and he said, "Do you like it? My mother made it for me."
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Gary McGath]

On 9/17/20 8:03 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

> What would be the point in such a warning in case of literal doomsday?
> So people can hide from the end of the world in underground shelters?
>

People are addicted to rituals. If it were discovered and announced that
a world-destroying asteroid was going to hit us, millions of people
would fight to get into shelters, even though it would do no good.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <rk1v1h$pdu$1...@dont-email.me>,

Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>On 9/17/20 8:03 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>
>> What would be the point in such a warning in case of literal doomsday?
>> So people can hide from the end of the world in underground shelters?
>>
>
>People are addicted to rituals. If it were discovered and announced that
>a world-destroying asteroid was going to hit us, millions of people
>would fight to get into shelters, even though it would do no good.
>

"The time was the 19th of May, 1780. The place was Hartford,
Connecticut. The day has gone down in New England history as a
terrible foretaste of Judgement Day. For at noon the skies
turned from blue to grey and by mid-afternoon had blackened over
so densely that, in that religious age, men fell on their knees
and begged a final blessing before the end came. The Connecticut
House of Representatives was in session. And, as some of the men
fell down and others clamored for an immediate adjournment, the
Speaker of the House, one Col. Davenport, came to his feet. He
silenced them and said these words: 'The day of judgment is
either approaching or it is not. If it is not, there is no cause
for adjournment. If it is, I choose to be found doing my duty.
I wish therefore that candles may be brought.'"
-- Alistair Cooke

[Kevrob]

[quote]

....Harvard professor Samuel Williams studied weather data and
collected personal accounts of the Dark Day. Along with discovering
that it was limited to New England, he also ran across reports of
massive forest fires tearing their way through parts of the Northeast.
Witnesses in some locales had noted that the Dark Day was accompanied
by "thick, dark and sooty" rain and the smell of burnt leaves. Could
the shadow have been a cloud of ash and smoke from distant wildfires?
Williams and a few others suggested it was possible, but their thesis
was dismissed as "simple and absurd" in the papers.

It would take several decades — and several more smoke-induced
"dark days" - before the forest fire theory won wide acceptance.

[/quote]

https://www.history.com/news/remembering-new-englands-dark-day

The current conflagrations in the American West have been yielding
significant smoke, which has reached us on the East Coast.


[headline]

Western wildfire smoke causes East Coast haze, vivid sunsets
By Susan Montoya Bryan September 17, 2020

[/h]

https://apnews.com/f36aead1c4117fb54f2b821bcb29ee8a

History, not repeating, but rhyming?

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/01/12/history-rhymes/

The history.com article mentions people heading to churches
to pray, and to taverns to drink. Neither choice is available
to me right now , due to pandemic rules.

--
Kevin R

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <a70c6d00-38ae-44fe...@googlegroups.com>,

Whereas in the West we've had to stay indoors for additional
reasons.

I do miss going to church. I don't drink, so that's no problem.

[Keith F. Lynch]

Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> What would be the point in such a warning in case of literal
>> doomsday? So people can hide from the end of the world in
>> underground shelters?

> People are addicted to rituals. If it were discovered and announced
> that a world-destroying asteroid was going to hit us, millions of
> people would fight to get into shelters, even though it would do no
> good.

To be fair, it's always possible that there's been a mistake
somewhere, and maybe survival would be possible to the well-protected.