Why superstar food editors should never be allowed near the classics
Laura Burchard
to nab the gingerbread man recipe out of their copy. Someone had given Mom
the newest version last Christmas, so out of curiousity I checked there
first. And stared in faint horror. There was no gingerbread man recipe.
The cookies I had made every Christmas since I was tall enough to manage
the mixing bowl had been replaced by
Gingerbread people (reduced fat)
"Everything wrong with the new edition summed up in one short line", I
thought, and went to get the ancient, beloved, foodstained copy that sat
beside this shiny new one. Started to write down the recipe, stopped,
compared it to the one in the new edition. And began to laugh.
The old recipe had 1/4 cup butter (4 tablespoons) and no egg to 3 1/2 cups
flour. The new, 'reduced fat' recipe? 6 tablespoons butter and an egg to 3
cups flour. I compared the sugar; 1/2 cup sugar and 1/2 cup molasses for
the old, 3/4 cup sugar and 1/2 cup molasses for the new.
So this year, I shall have and give out the same not too sweet, not too
rich, gingerbread men with their red-hots eyes that I have always had. And
laugh and laugh and laugh at the silly people who make their 'diet'
gingerbread people.
Laura
who *must* find the box with Joy of Cooking in it
Aahz Maruch
Laura Burchard <l...@Radix.Net> wrote:
>
>My Joy of Cooking was in storage from a move, so I stopped by my
>parents to nab the gingerbread man recipe out of their copy. Someone
>had given Mom the newest version last Christmas, so out of curiousity I
How many years before the old Joy falls out of copyright?
--
--- Aahz (@netcom.com)
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 <*> -=> http://www.rahul.net/aahz
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het
I don't really mind a person having the last whine, but I do mind
someone else having the last self-righteous whine.
David Goldfarb
)How many years before the old Joy falls out of copyright?
Given current trends in US copyright law, never.
--
David Goldfarb <*>| "No-one in the world ever gets what they want
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | And that is beautiful.
aste...@slip.net | Everybody dies frustrated and sad
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | And that is beautiful." -- TMBG
Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet
>My Joy of Cooking was in storage from a move, so I stopped by my parents
>to nab the gingerbread man recipe out of their copy. Someone had given Mom
>the newest version last Christmas, so out of curiousity I checked there
>first. And stared in faint horror. There was no gingerbread man recipe.
>The cookies I had made every Christmas since I was tall enough to manage
>the mixing bowl had been replaced by
>Gingerbread people (reduced fat)
It's actually quite a good cookbook, but it is *not* THE JOY OF
COOKING. I have in the house no fewer than four editions of THE JOY
OF COOKING precisely because of this pernicious habit of leaving out
beloved recipes when issuing a new edition. The latest one really
does depart so far as to be reasonably considered a new book, though.
I haven't figured out what I think they ought to have called it.
The latest edition of Fowler has lost its last lingering flavor, too.
--
"Moreover, fantasticality does a good deal better than
sham psychology." -- Virginia Woolf
-----------------------------------------------------------
Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet pd...@ddb.com
Ailsa Murphy
aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
> In article <73shq0$6bm$1...@saltmine.radix.net>,
> Laura Burchard <l...@Radix.Net> wrote:
> >
> >parents to nab the gingerbread man recipe out of their copy. Someone
> >had given Mom the newest version last Christmas, so out of curiousity I
>
> How many years before the old Joy falls out of copyright?
*stifled shriek of extreme horror*
Does this mean the real true & proper _Joy of Cooking_ is no longer
available??? Should I head out for the used bookstore _now_ to look for an
old copy? (As if anyone would actually ever sell one off.) I have my copy
that I've had since I was 20 or so, but I want Kathy to have one too.
-Ailsa
--
Foon a kasha shtarbt min nisht | Ailsa N.T. Murphy
From a question you don't die|ailsa....@tfn.co
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Dan Goodman
the new one is yet. If you see a Joy of Cooking paperback in a bookstore,
take a look through it to make sure it's not the "improved" new version.
In article <73usa7$nqi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
--
Dan Goodman
dsg...@visi.com
http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
Dorothy J Heydt
How "old" do you mean? As in, previous edition?
My copy of _The Joy of Cooking_ doesn't say what edition it is,
but it says "Copyright 1931, 1936, 1942, 1943, 1946, 1951, 1951,
1953." Its cover came off a while ago and was rebound in blue
denim by a friend. Many pages are coming loose. I wouldn't
change. I got a look at one of the newer editions one day. The
so-called "pound cake" recipe in that book had *milk* in it.
And yes, it has a recipe for gingerbread *MEN.*
(The real pound cake recipe begins, "Cream thoroughly 2 cups
butter, no substitutes. When you think you have creamed it
enough cream some more."
And then you add a pound of sugar, a pound of eggs, some
flavorings, and a pound of flour. And no milk.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
_A Point of Honor_ is out....
Dan Goodman
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <waJ82.1719$764.6...@ptah.visi.com>,
>Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>>The old Joy of Cooking is still available _in paperback_.
>
>How "old" do you mean? As in, previous edition?
Previous edition.
>My copy of _The Joy of Cooking_ doesn't say what edition it is,
>but it says "Copyright 1931, 1936, 1942, 1943, 1946, 1951, 1951,
>1953." Its cover came off a while ago and was rebound in blue
>denim by a friend. Many pages are coming loose. I wouldn't
>change. I got a look at one of the newer editions one day. The
>so-called "pound cake" recipe in that book had *milk* in it.
>
>And yes, it has a recipe for gingerbread *MEN.*
>
>(The real pound cake recipe begins, "Cream thoroughly 2 cups
>butter, no substitutes. When you think you have creamed it
>enough cream some more."
>
>And then you add a pound of sugar, a pound of eggs, some
>flavorings, and a pound of flour. And no milk.
Aahz Maruch
Ailsa Murphy <ailsa....@tfn.com> wrote:
>In article <aahzF37...@netcom.com>,
> aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
>>
>> How many years before the old Joy falls out of copyright?
>
>
>Does this mean the real true & proper _Joy of Cooking_ is no longer
>available??? Should I head out for the used bookstore _now_ to look for
>an old copy? (As if anyone would actually ever sell one off.) I have
>my copy that I've had since I was 20 or so, but I want Kathy to have
>one too.
Modulo the comment about paperbacks, your observation is essentially
correct. In fact, get two or three copies for when yours falls apart.
--
--- Aahz (@netcom.com)
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 <*> -=> http://www.rahul.net/aahz
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het
"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore." --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_
Evelyn C. Leeper
> flour. The new, 'reduced fat' recipe? 6 tablespoons butter and an egg to 3
> cups flour. I compared the sugar; 1/2 cup sugar and 1/2 cup molasses for
> the old, 3/4 cup sugar and 1/2 cup molasses for the new.
I read this to Mark. He explained that the "reduced fat" was fat
reduced from other recipes and finally used here. :-)
--
Evelyn C. Leeper | ele...@lucent.com
+1 732 957 2070 | http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4824
"Children of the future Age, Reading this indignant page:
Know that in a former time Love! sweet Love! was thought a crime." --Wm Blake
Ailsa Murphy
aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
> In article <73usa7$nqi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> Ailsa Murphy <ailsa....@tfn.com> wrote:
> >In article <aahzF37...@netcom.com>,
> > aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
> >>
> >> How many years before the old Joy falls out of copyright?
> >
> >*stifled shriek of extreme horror*
> >
> >Does this mean the real true & proper _Joy of Cooking_ is no longer
> >available??? Should I head out for the used bookstore _now_ to look for
> >an old copy? (As if anyone would actually ever sell one off.) I have
> >my copy that I've had since I was 20 or so, but I want Kathy to have
> >one too.
>
> Modulo the comment about paperbacks, your observation is essentially
> correct. In fact, get two or three copies for when yours falls apart.
> --
worried. B)
-Ailsa
--
Foon a kasha shtarbt min nisht Ailsa N.T. Murphy
From a question you don't die ailsa....@tfn.com
B. Vermo
|
|Modulo the comment about paperbacks, your observation is essentially
|correct. In fact, get two or three copies for when yours falls apart.
Sounds like good advice. I just got another copy of the 1941 edition of
Schønberg Erken, the cookbook my mother swore by. The one I inherited
from her looks more like a deck of cards.
Luckily, they are still easy to come by. Paper was the only thing they
had enough of during the war, and cookbooks could be published without
being sent to a foreign-run recreation camp. Besides, food pronography
was very popular since the real thing was in such short supply.
I will look for "Joy" the next time I get near a suitable shop. About
how big is it, and what are the good years?
Dorothy J Heydt
>
>I will look for "Joy" the next time I get near a suitable shop. About
>how big is it, and what are the good years?
It's about 4 inches/10 cm* thick, and the 1950s are a good
vintage. (Mine is dated 1953.)
Dorothy J. Heydt
*who is not good at metrics, but learned that particular
equivalency during childbirth preparation classes....
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>It's about 4 inches/10 cm* thick, and the 1950s are a good
>vintage. (Mine is dated 1953.)
I have my mother's Betty Crocker Cookbook from the early 1950's. The
binder is falling apart so I suppose I should save the binder parts
and put a new binder on because I use some of the recipes. What I
really like, though, is the recommendations on how to run your
household, including taking a short nap, changing into a fresh dress,
and reapplying makeup before your husband comes home! And my mother
added some recipes to it, too.
> _A Point of Honor_ is out....
Yes, and I bought it at the new Barnes & Noble this week. I know what
people say about the big chains, but the B&N is the best bookstore in
this end of the county. We never had any independent stores that sold
new books and the two chains that did, Crown (now defunct) and
Waldenbooks had pretty much media SF. B&N has a wonderful SFF section
-- mostly paperback & TPB -- with a lot of "literary" SFF. Not to
mention nice chairs & tables (I don't like coffee).
--
Marilee J. Layman Co-Leader, The Other*Worlds*Cafe
relm...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group
*New* Web site: http://www.webmoose.com/owc/
AOL keyword: BOOKs > Books Community > The Other*Worlds*Cafe (listbox)
Dorothy J Heydt
Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
> [in the 1950s Betty Crocker Cookbook]....What I
>really like, though, is the recommendations on how to run your
>household, including taking a short nap, changing into a fresh dress,
>and reapplying makeup before your husband comes home!
Oh, gosh, yes, those were the days. My copy (about the same
vintage as your mother's, no doubt) was given me by my best
friend when I was about ten, and she has inscribed in the
flyleaf, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach."
(Later to become the motto of the Assassins' Guild.)
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Doug Wickstrom
modulated the bit stream to say:
>In article <366bded4...@news.erols.com>,
>Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>> [in the 1950s Betty Crocker Cookbook]....What I
>>really like, though, is the recommendations on how to run your
>>household, including taking a short nap, changing into a fresh dress,
>>and reapplying makeup before your husband comes home!
>
>Oh, gosh, yes, those were the days. My copy (about the same
>vintage as your mother's, no doubt) was given me by my best
>friend when I was about ten, and she has inscribed in the
>flyleaf, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach."
>
>(Later to become the motto of the Assassins' Guild.)
Simple anatomy, so of course. Strike underhand, if you want to reach
the heart. Overhand blows slide off the ribs, and straight through
gets your knife stuck when the victim collapses.
Personally, though, I think I'd use a Webley-Fosbury automatic
revolver. Enough people are convinced of its non-existence that no
one would ever suspect its use.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Tsuyu to ochi, tsuyu to kienishi. Waga mi ka na?
Naniwa no koto mo, yume mo matayume." --Toyotomi Hideyoshi
B. Vermo
mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) wrote:
|... What I
|really like, though, is the recommendations on how to run your
|household, including taking a short nap, changing into a fresh dress,
|and reapplying makeup before your husband comes home!
Heh! Reminds me of my mother's 1925 'Cookbook for Common Households',
which has some chapters on how a young wife should run her house.
It dwells a lot on how important it is to have a good, diligent and
honest kitchen maid. A failure there could easily ruin the household
budget for a young family of small means...
Karen E Cooper
I have a lot of this sort of thing, such as Mrs. Child's "American Frugal
Housewife"; my 12th edition reprint is from 1832. The baking advice --
one can hardly call them recipes -- recommends using "pearlash" to make
things rise. Had to look that one up. It's "potassium carbonate" and
sesm to have been used in places where we now use baking soda. Anybody
know more than that?
I had thought Mrs. Child gave advice on how to capture wild yeast, but on
checking, I find she only tells how to increase the supply one has.
In a more modern vein is the pinky new cookbook that came in the mail
today: Edouard de Pomiane's "French Cooking in Ten Minutes" (reprinted
with woodcut illustrations from the 1930 original). I have already
learned what was that extraordinary dessert we found all over Hungary --
chestnut puree.
His kitchen is limited to an icebox and a 2-burner stove. Canned goods
(and the corner charcuterie) are the only available convenience foods.
I've not yet made anything from this cookbook, but have read most of the
recipes and they are all plausible. They're quite heavy on what we
lightly refer to as "variety meats," though.
My absolute fave in the genre of a limited kitchen is Katherine
Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter," which teaches us how to make dinner
with no refrigerator, no counterspace, no microwave, and running water
down the hall.
Karen.
--
new address: <ka...@counterpane.com>
Dorothy J Heydt
Karen E Cooper <keco...@garnet.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>
>I have a lot of this sort of thing, such as Mrs. Child's "American Frugal
>Housewife"; my 12th edition reprint is from 1832. The baking advice --
>one can hardly call them recipes -- recommends using "pearlash" to make
>things rise. Had to look that one up. It's "potassium carbonate" and
>sesm to have been used in places where we now use baking soda. Anybody
>know more than that?
That particular one is new to me, though even older than that is
"hartshorn," ammonium carbonate, which used really to be made of
ground-up antlers. It breaks down into ammonia and carbon
dioxide under quite a low oven, 200 Fahrenheit or thereabouts. I
used to have a cookie recipe that used it.
After that baking soda was invented, and shortly after that (1850
or so) "saleratus," or baking powder. My 1953 Joy of Cooking (q.v.)
makes reference to "phosphate or tartrate baking powders" as
distinguised from "combination" or "double-acting" ones, so the
single varieties must still have been in use.
>My absolute fave in the genre of a limited kitchen is Katherine
>Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter," which teaches us how to make dinner
>with no refrigerator, no counterspace, no microwave, and running water
>down the hall.
Hmmm! References, please? (Another reason for amazon.com, you
see....)
Have you read M. F. K. Fischer's _How to Cook a Wolf_ (that is,
how to cook under World War II rationing)?
And I've already mentioned Sheila Kaye-Smith's _Kitchen Fugue,_
the British version of the above.
Karen E Cooper
>In article <kecooper....@garnet.tc.umn.edu>,
>Karen E Cooper <keco...@garnet.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>>
[19th century baking]
>>recommends using "pearlash" to make
>>things rise. Had to look that one up. It's "potassium carbonate" and
>>sesm to have been used in places where we now use baking soda. Anybody
>>know more than that?
>That particular one is new to me, though even older than that is
>"hartshorn," ammonium carbonate, which used really to be made of
>ground-up antlers. It breaks down into ammonia and carbon
>dioxide under quite a low oven, 200 Fahrenheit or thereabouts. I
>used to have a cookie recipe that used it.
Fascinating. Do the antlers have to be fresh? How do you grind up
antlers, anyway? How can ammonia be good in cookies (I assume the C02
bubbles away)?
>After that baking soda was invented, and shortly after that (1850
>or so) "saleratus," or baking powder. My 1953 Joy of Cooking (q.v.)
>makes reference to "phosphate or tartrate baking powders" as
>distinguised from "combination" or "double-acting" ones, so the
>single varieties must still have been in use.
Jeff Schalles has a whole rap he does about aluminum in baking powders. I
don't know how the single- or double-acting are different, though.
>>My absolute fave in the genre of a limited kitchen is Katherine
>>Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter," which teaches us how to make dinner
>>with no refrigerator, no counterspace, no microwave, and running water
>>down the hall.
>Hmmm! References, please? (Another reason for amazon.com, you
>see....)
Amazon doesn't seem to be aware of it. I bought my copy in the UK. I
have the revised edition, published by Penguin. I recall Chuch
recognizing it last time I mentioned it here, so it's not unheardof in UK
fandom.
>Have you read M. F. K. Fischer's _How to Cook a Wolf_ (that is,
>how to cook under World War II rationing)?
No, but I shall have to seek it out now. I did just by a marvelous little
pamphlet in an eBay auction: "Wartime Suggestions to help you get the most
out of your Refrigerator." (Basically tips on using leftovers, along with
lists of things one need not, or must, refrigerate.)
>And I've already mentioned Sheila Kaye-Smith's _Kitchen Fugue,_
>the British version of the above.
Ah, but I haven't read the whole thread! Woe.
Karen.
Dorothy J Heydt
Karen E Cooper <keco...@garnet.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>Fascinating. Do the antlers have to be fresh?
I don't know. You can get ammonium carbonate in drugstores, or
you could last time I tried it. (It's all same "smelling salts,"
since it slowly breaks down even without being baked and if you
open up the jar and incautiously take a sniff it'll open up your
sinuses real good.)
How do you grind up
>antlers, anyway?
With a mortar and pestle, I presume.
How can ammonia be good in cookies (I assume the C02
>bubbles away)?
The ammonia is a gas--not dissolved in water like household
ammonia. It and the CO2 both evaporate. You do get this
noticeable ammonia smell in the kitchen while the cookies are
baking, but you can't taste it afterwards.
(Wonder if I've still got the recipe. They were Swedish cookies
called _Droemmer,_ "Dreams," and it was like unto a buttery
shortbread dough with hartshorn in it. I bet I could reconstruct
it with a little experimentation....)
Beth Friedman
<F3pM...@kithrup.com>...
> That particular one is new to me, though even older than that is
> "hartshorn," ammonium carbonate, which used really to be made of
> ground-up antlers. It breaks down into ammonia and carbon
> dioxide under quite a low oven, 200 Fahrenheit or thereabouts. I
> used to have a cookie recipe that used it.
My only acquaintance with hartshorn is in Regency romances, where ladies
who are about to faint call for their hartshort.
> After that baking soda was invented, and shortly after that (1850
> or so) "saleratus," or baking powder. My 1953 Joy of Cooking (q.v.)
> makes reference to "phosphate or tartrate baking powders" as
> distinguised from "combination" or "double-acting" ones, so the
> single varieties must still have been in use.
In 1987, Pamela, Pamela's mother, DD-B, and I were staying in a flat in
Honor Oak Park in England. Pamela had offered to bake biscuits for
breakfast if we would provide the ingredients. I ventured out on a Sunday
morning to see if any grocery was open. The usual one, a couple of blocks
away, was closed, but one a mile or so in the other direction was open. I
was able to find all the ingredients I needed except for baking powder. I
asked the person working there, and she directed me to a shelf near the
exit. "Single-acting baking powder," it said on the container. I tried to
find another grocery, but it being Sunday morning, it was Hobson's choice
and I took what they had.
I seem to recall that Pamela used more baking soda than she normally would
have for her recipe. There was even more uncertainty, because the stove
somehow had lost its regular settings, and would only cook on "broil."
Despite all this, the biscuits turned out just fine, and it was a lovely
Sunday brunch.
> Have you read M. F. K. Fischer's _How to Cook a Wolf_ (that is,
> how to cook under World War II rationing)?
I have that in her omnibus volume _The Art of Eating_. The recipes daunt
me (especially the gingerbread), but I love reading the books. IIRC, _How
to Cook a Wolf_ also describes how to eat (and stay healthy) on almost no
money at all.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Bernard Peek
>>>My absolute fave in the genre of a limited kitchen is Katherine
>>>Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter," which teaches us how to make dinner
>>>with no refrigerator, no counterspace, no microwave, and running water
>>>down the hall.
>
>>Hmmm! References, please? (Another reason for amazon.com, you
>>see....)
>
>Amazon doesn't seem to be aware of it. I bought my copy in the UK. I
>have the revised edition, published by Penguin. I recall Chuch
>recognizing it last time I mentioned it here, so it's not unheardof in UK
>fandom.
It's been available continuously for many years. I recently gave a copy
to someone leaving home for the first time.
I also recommended a book called _Pots and Pants_ by Donald Kilbourn.
It's a genuine beginners cookbook. It's aimed at men who are suddenly
faced with the task of feeding an entire family when their wife goes
away to minister to an elderly aunt or somesuch. Mr Kilbourn was a
journalist who had to fend for himself in various foreign parts.
The book is illustrated by Larry, which will tell those that recognise
the name that the book doesn't take itself excessively seriously.
It starts by explaining things like teaspoons and desertspoons, and has
a helpful diagram showing the size of each. If in doubt you can compare
your spoon to what the author thinks is a teaspoon, desertspoon etc.
If I recall correctly, the first recipe in the book is tea. Not the
light meal with cucumber sandwiches but the brown dead-leaf infusion.
It doesn't give the original english-language instructions for how long
to let it brew, "Say the paternoster thrice at a leisy
>
>>Have you read M. F. K. Fischer's _How to Cook a Wolf_ (that is,
>>how to cook under World War II rationing)?
>
>No, but I shall have to seek it out now. I did just by a marvelous little
>pamphlet in an eBay auction: "Wartime Suggestions to help you get the most
>out of your Refrigerator." (Basically tips on using leftovers, along with
>lists of things one need not, or must, refrigerate.)
I've read my mother's copy of the _Stork Cookbook_, which was produced
during the war and has various strategies for coping with rationing. I
have my own copy of a later edition. It's invaluable because in several
yards of cookbooks on the shelf it's the only one that has lists
cooking-times for meat.
--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
Kate Schaefer
Organization: Seattle Community Network
In a previous article, keco...@garnet.tc.umn.edu (Karen E Cooper) says:
[snippage]
>
>In a more modern vein is the pinky new cookbook that came in the mail
>today: Edouard de Pomiane's "French Cooking in Ten Minutes" (reprinted
>with woodcut illustrations from the 1930 original). I have already
>learned what was that extraordinary dessert we found all over Hungary --
>chestnut puree.
>
>His kitchen is limited to an icebox and a 2-burner stove. Canned goods
>(and the corner charcuterie) are the only available convenience foods.
>I've not yet made anything from this cookbook, but have read most of the
>recipes and they are all plausible. They're quite heavy on what we
>lightly refer to as "variety meats," though.
I like to take de Pomiane out and read him when I'm feeling beaten down
by the demands of modern life. I haven't cooked from his book either,
but it does seem as though I could. I am happy that we think differently
about vegetables than he did.
>My absolute fave in the genre of a limited kitchen is Katherine
>Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter," which teaches us how to make dinner
>with no refrigerator, no counterspace, no microwave, and running water
>down the hall.
--
Kate Schaefer
ka...@scn.org
Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet
"Beth Friedman" <b...@wavefront.com> writes:
>In 1987, Pamela, Pamela's mother, DD-B, and I were staying in a flat in
>Honor Oak Park in England. Pamela had offered to bake biscuits for
>breakfast if we would provide the ingredients. I ventured out on a Sunday
>morning to see if any grocery was open. The usual one, a couple of blocks
>away, was closed, but one a mile or so in the other direction was open. I
>was able to find all the ingredients I needed except for baking powder. I
>asked the person working there, and she directed me to a shelf near the
>exit. "Single-acting baking powder," it said on the container. I tried to
>find another grocery, but it being Sunday morning, it was Hobson's choice
>and I took what they had.
>I seem to recall that Pamela used more baking soda than she normally would
>have for her recipe.
Powder. But yes. I didn't quite double it; I got intuitive. Low
blood sugar, no doubt.
>There was even more uncertainty, because the stove
>somehow had lost its regular settings, and would only cook on "broil."
Oh, wow, yes. I remember the biscuits' being very crispy, but not why.
>Despite all this, the biscuits turned out just fine, and it was a lovely
>Sunday brunch.
David has a picture of me rolling out the dough with an empty cider
bottle. The kitchen was not equipped with a rolling pin.
What I really remember cooking in that kitchen is lots and lots and
lots of apple crisp, because our landlord kept bringing us his
Braeburn apples.
Doug Wickstrom
Cooper) modulated the bit stream to say:
>I have a lot of this sort of thing, such as Mrs. Child's "American Frugal
>Housewife"; my 12th edition reprint is from 1832. The baking advice --
>one can hardly call them recipes -- recommends using "pearlash" to make
>things rise. Had to look that one up. It's "potassium carbonate" and
>sesm to have been used in places where we now use baking soda. Anybody
>know more than that?
Not specifically, but I have a few old Swedish cookie recipes that
call for hartshorn salt, aka ammonium carbonate. These days you have
to get it in drugstores, so I usually substitute baking powder.
Doesn't smell all that good while baking, either, which is another
argument in favor of substitution. :)
mike weber
on 9 Dec 1998 13:49:14 -0600,
>>In article <kecooper....@garnet.tc.umn.edu>,
>>Karen E Cooper <keco...@garnet.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>>>My absolute fave in the genre of a limited kitchen is Katherine
>>>Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter," which teaches us how to make dinner
>>>with no refrigerator, no counterspace, no microwave, and running water
>>>down the hall.
>
>>Hmmm! References, please? (Another reason for amazon.com, you
>>see....)
>
>Amazon doesn't seem to be aware of it. I bought my copy in the UK. I
>have the revised edition, published by Penguin. I recall Chuch
>recognizing it last time I mentioned it here, so it's not unheardof in UK
>fandom.
>
>>Have you read M. F. K. Fischer's _How to Cook a Wolf_ (that is,
>>how to cook under World War II rationing)?
My mother has that one.
>
>No, but I shall have to seek it out now. I did just by a marvelous little
>pamphlet in an eBay auction: "Wartime Suggestions to help you get the most
>out of your Refrigerator." (Basically tips on using leftovers, along with
>lists of things one need not, or must, refrigerate.)
>
>>And I've already mentioned Sheila Kaye-Smith's _Kitchen Fugue,_
>>the British version of the above.
>
>Ah, but I haven't read the whole thread! Woe.
>
Another book i can highly recommend is -The Foodstamp Gourmet-,
published in the Seventies by Bellerophon Press ((along with Chaucer
colouring biooks)); great rexcipes for wonderful food Dirt Cheap with
illos by Shelton, Irons and other underground artists ((Fat Freddy on
the cover...))
--
"...no use looking for the answers when the questions are in
doubt..." F.LeBlanc
<mike weber> <emsh...@aol.com>
Adina Adler
> On 9 Dec 1998 11:52:23 -0600, keco...@garnet.tc.umn.edu (Karen E
> Cooper) modulated the bit stream to say:
>
> >I have a lot of this sort of thing, such as Mrs. Child's "American Frugal
> >Housewife"; my 12th edition reprint is from 1832. The baking advice --
> >one can hardly call them recipes -- recommends using "pearlash" to make
> >things rise. Had to look that one up. It's "potassium carbonate" and
> >sesm to have been used in places where we now use baking soda. Anybody
> >know more than that?
>
> Not specifically, but I have a few old Swedish cookie recipes that
> call for hartshorn salt, aka ammonium carbonate. These days you have
> to get it in drugstores, so I usually substitute baking powder.
>
> Doesn't smell all that good while baking, either, which is another
> argument in favor of substitution. :)
From what I've read, it will produce very crisp cookies, which might
be a reason to try, if you've got a well-ventilated kitchen.
--
Adina Adler
Visit the Readercon web page at http://www.mit.edu/~zeno/readercon.html
Jo Walton
Ber...@shrdlu.com "Bernard Peek" writes:
> I've read my mother's copy of the _Stork Cookbook_, which was produced
> during the war and has various strategies for coping with rationing. I
> have my own copy of a later edition. It's invaluable because in several
> yards of cookbooks on the shelf it's the only one that has lists
> cooking-times for meat.
I have my grandmother's :Cookery Year: which has a really useful page
of cooking times for meat, as well as really good definitions of how
to do things that other recipe books airily assume you already know.
It also has some excellent recipes, though whenever I check one of them
to give to someone I always find that I've started making it differently
myself, without ever noticing.
--
Jo - - I kissed a kif at Kefk - - J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk - Blood of Kings Poetry; rasfw FAQ;
Reviews; Interstichia; Momentum - a paying market for real poetry.
Dorothy J Heydt
Adina Adler <ad...@shell3.shore.net> wrote:
[hartshorn]
>>
>> Doesn't smell all that good while baking, either, which is another
>> argument in favor of substitution. :)
>
>From what I've read, it will produce very crisp cookies, which might
>be a reason to try, if you've got a well-ventilated kitchen.
I think I need to clarify something here. You don't use much
hartshorn and you get a *noticeable smell* of ammonia while the
cookies are baking. A smell, not a roomful of suffocating gas.
About as if you'd just mopped the floor in ammonia water. Not
enough to need to open the window for.
Beth Friedman
<pddb.91...@gw.ddb.com>...
> David has a picture of me rolling out the dough with an empty cider
> bottle. The kitchen was not equipped with a rolling pin.
Oh, right. I'd forgotten that bit. It was a remarkably eclectic kitchen.
A fair amount of non-standard stuff, and no decent knives to speak of. Jim
and Pat Wrede, who shared the place with me the first month, bought a
couple of serrated knives. Those suited my needs just fine, but David
sneered at them.
> What I really remember cooking in that kitchen is lots and lots and
> lots of apple crisp, because our landlord kept bringing us his
> Braeburn apples.
Rather like the cherries in _The Family Nobody Wanted_. (If anyone but me
has read that.)
"Braeburn" doesn't sound quite right, but there were indeed a great number
of them. Large, green, and lumpy. "Bramley," maybe? It's probably in my
trip journal, if I can ever find that. And the apples weren't suitable for
eating, only for cooking, Mr. Payne (the landlord) said; I never quite
dared test that.
We managed to go through quite a lot of the apple crisp, though it was more
like apple sog the second day. Of course, it gets soggy in any case if you
put cream on it, and we had some really fine cream in England.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
<b...@wavefront.com> writes:
>
>Rather like the cherries in _The Family Nobody Wanted_. (If anyone but me
>has read that.)
Well, yes, but it was a long time ago. (Not long enough that I've
misremembered Harry Harrison as the author, but long enough that I got it
from Scholastic Book Service.) I remember the basic premise -- it's a
memoir written by the wife of a couple that end up adopting something like
nine chldren of assorted races and disabilities -- but not too many
details, and I'm not sure whether the one scene I associate with it --
they're so broke that they eat a very old can of rattlesnake meat kept as a
souvenir; a frequent visitor picks up the can, finds it empty, and
realizes their dire straits -- actually comes from there or not.
-- Alan
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WIN...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210
===============================================================================
Doug Wickstrom
modulated the bit stream to say:
>xnims...@aol.com (Doug Wickstrom) writes:
>
>> On 9 Dec 1998 11:52:23 -0600, keco...@garnet.tc.umn.edu (Karen E
>> Cooper) modulated the bit stream to say:
>>
>> >I have a lot of this sort of thing, such as Mrs. Child's "American Frugal
>> >Housewife"; my 12th edition reprint is from 1832. The baking advice --
>> >one can hardly call them recipes -- recommends using "pearlash" to make
>> >things rise. Had to look that one up. It's "potassium carbonate" and
>> >sesm to have been used in places where we now use baking soda. Anybody
>> >know more than that?
>>
>> Not specifically, but I have a few old Swedish cookie recipes that
>> call for hartshorn salt, aka ammonium carbonate. These days you have
>> to get it in drugstores, so I usually substitute baking powder.
>>
>> Doesn't smell all that good while baking, either, which is another
>> argument in favor of substitution. :)
>
>From what I've read, it will produce very crisp cookies, which might
>be a reason to try, if you've got a well-ventilated kitchen.
It's not _that_ bad, it just doesn't smell like cookies baking.
Jo Walton
b...@wavefront.com "Beth Friedman" writes:
> "Braeburn" doesn't sound quite right, but there were indeed a great number
> of them. Large, green, and lumpy. "Bramley," maybe? It's probably in my
> trip journal, if I can ever find that. And the apples weren't suitable for
> eating, only for cooking, Mr. Payne (the landlord) said; I never quite
> dared test that.
Cooking apples. You wouldn't want to eat cooking apples. It would give
you stomach ache.
Around Halloween I went to the greengrocer and asked for advice about
apples - I wanted some to bake, cored with raisins and brown sugar, and
I wasn't sure which kind would be best. As I explained to the woman
in the shop, whenever I'd done it before it had been with the sort
of apples that grow on trees.
Yes, I know. But I meant as opposed to the sort in shops which have
names.
I have a friend in Cambridge who has an orchard of old types of
apples, and she knows their names and very often the names of all
their friends and relations as well. She grows one kind which come
ripe in early August and are about the size of large strawberries,
and about that sweet as well. They're a cousin of the Pippins, but
you'd never guess it. Nobody grows them commercially but they're
the best apples I've ever had.
Ailsa Murphy
"Beth Friedman" <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>
> Rather like the cherries in _The Family Nobody Wanted_. (If anyone but me
> has read that.)
Yes. A zillion times, all of which were when I was in sixth and seventh
grade, I believe. Must see if that's still in print. I bet Kathy would like
it...
Ailsa Murphy
win...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:
> In article <01be24d4$3f806b80$bfd0...@bjf.wavefront.com>, "Beth Friedman"
>
> >
> >Rather like the cherries in _The Family Nobody Wanted_. (If anyone but me
> >has read that.)
>
> misremembered Harry Harrison as the author, but long enough that I got it
> from Scholastic Book Service.) I remember the basic premise -- it's a
> memoir written by the wife of a couple that end up adopting something like
> nine chldren of assorted races and disabilities -- but not too many
> details, and I'm not sure whether the one scene I associate with it --
> they're so broke that they eat a very old can of rattlesnake meat kept as a
> souvenir; a frequent visitor picks up the can, finds it empty, and
> realizes their dire straits -- actually comes from there or not.
>
And of course Harry Harrison was the author. Wasn't the sequel _The Stainless
Steel Family_?
Beth Friedman
wrote in article <009D082D...@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...
> In article <01be24d4$3f806b80$bfd0...@bjf.wavefront.com>, "Beth
> Friedman" <b...@wavefront.com> writes:
>
> >Rather like the cherries in _The Family Nobody Wanted_. (If anyone
> >but me has read that.)
>
> something like nine chldren of assorted races and disabilities -- but not
> too many details, and I'm not sure whether the one scene I associate
> with it -- they're so broke that they eat a very old can of rattlesnake
> meat kept as a souvenir; a frequent visitor picks up the can, finds it
> empty, and realizes their dire straits -- actually comes from there or
not.
Yes, that's the one. A round dozen children, I think. And the bit with
the cherries was that a well-intentioned neighbor kept delivering more and
more baskets of cherries -- except that they were sour ones that couldn't
be eaten plain, but had to be pitted and canned first. She eventually
ended up canning them pits and all.
The bit I particularly remembered in a later reading was the author trying
to carry off something that just doesn't work in a first-person narrative.
She described a sandwich that one of the children (Donny?) made for her,
that had random ingredients and was delicious. Then she tried to recreate
the sandwich later, but something was missing. Reading the description of
the first sandwich, it's clear that the missing ingredient is almond paste.
And if the author knew, how could the viewpoint character, who is the
author, not know?
I could continue to a more general commentary, but I'll do so in a new
message, I think.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet
"Beth Friedman" <b...@wavefront.com> writes:
>Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet <pd...@ddb.com> wrote in article
><pddb.91...@gw.ddb.com>...
>> What I really remember cooking in that kitchen is lots and lots and
>> lots of apple crisp, because our landlord kept bringing us his
>> Braeburn apples.
>Rather like the cherries in _The Family Nobody Wanted_. (If anyone but me
>has read that.)
It's a very familiar title, but I can't remember actually reading it.
>"Braeburn" doesn't sound quite right, but there were indeed a great number
>of them. Large, green, and lumpy. "Bramley," maybe? It's probably in my
>trip journal, if I can ever find that. And the apples weren't suitable for
>eating, only for cooking, Mr. Payne (the landlord) said; I never quite
>dared test that.
You're right, it was more like Bramley.
They were VERY sour. Good and crisp, though. The real obstacle to
just eating one was that they had a lot of bruises and insect damage.
Which actually reassured me -- oh, good, probably he didn't spray them.
It wasn't really a problem if you were cutting them up anyway but just
chomping one would have been vaguely alarming.
He brought us a whole apple pie once, too, or what he called an apple
pie. It was so nice of him, but far too sweet -- a rich sweet
shortbread crust, but then the apples were so sweet they might as well
have been Delicious, and all cooked to mush. A very tart crisp
filling for that shell would have been lovely.
Doug Wickstrom
modulated the bit stream to say:
>The bit I particularly remembered in a later reading was the author trying
>to carry off something that just doesn't work in a first-person narrative.
>She described a sandwich that one of the children (Donny?) made for her,
>that had random ingredients and was delicious. Then she tried to recreate
>the sandwich later, but something was missing. Reading the description of
>the first sandwich, it's clear that the missing ingredient is almond paste.
> And if the author knew, how could the viewpoint character, who is the
>author, not know?
I think it's rather like Vlad not knowing as much about the
Dragheira(sp?) as he thinks.
Authors are allowed to describe their younger selves as not knowing as
much as they do now. I think it's called "imparting a feeling of
versimilitude," or some such.
Morgan
Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> said:
>
>> too many details, and I'm not sure whether the one scene I associate
>> with it -- they're so broke that they eat a very old can of rattlesnake
>> meat kept as a souvenir; a frequent visitor picks up the can, finds it
>> empty, and realizes their dire straits
I remember that so vividly.
>-- actually comes from there or
>not.
>
>Yes, that's the one. A round dozen children, I think
The part that really stuck in my mind from that book was where 'he' was
describing how one of the kids had fallen off their bike and were being
brave and not crying. And someone standing next to him said it was
because they were from an inferior race and their nerve endings didn't
grow to their skin therefore they didn't feel pain like white kids. I
ws so _shocked_ that people could think such a thing, it stuck in my
mind and has never left .
--
Morgan
"Nunc demum intellego," dixit Winnie ille Pu. "Stultus et
delusus fui," dixit "et ursus sine ullo cerebro sum."
Beth Friedman
<uvOfKMAy...@sidhen.demon.co.uk>...
> The part that really stuck in my mind from that book was where 'he' was
> describing how one of the kids had fallen off their bike and were being
> brave and not crying. And someone standing next to him said it was
> because they were from an inferior race and their nerve endings didn't
> grow to their skin therefore they didn't feel pain like white kids. I
> ws so _shocked_ that people could think such a thing, it stuck in my
> mind and has never left .
Yup, I remember that bit.
The one that stuck in my mind, even when I first read it, was the girl who
was getting radium treatments to remove a birthmark on her face. And the
other girl who had a birthmark on her arm, who was getting radium
treatments to remove that as well, mostly to keep her company.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Avedon Carol
wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:09:38 GMT, "Beth Friedman" <b...@wavefront.com>
>modulated the bit stream to say:
>
>>The bit I particularly remembered in a later reading was the author trying
>>to carry off something that just doesn't work in a first-person narrative.
>>She described a sandwich that one of the children (Donny?) made for her,
>>that had random ingredients and was delicious. Then she tried to recreate
>>the sandwich later, but something was missing. Reading the description of
>>the first sandwich, it's clear that the missing ingredient is almond paste.
>> And if the author knew, how could the viewpoint character, who is the
>>author, not know?
>
>I think it's rather like Vlad not knowing as much about the
>Dragheira(sp?) as he thinks.
>
>Authors are allowed to describe their younger selves as not knowing as
>much as they do now. I think it's called "imparting a feeling of
>versimilitude," or some such.
I thought it was a technique that worked very well in _To Kill A
Mockingbird_, and helps to convey the feeling that the author is
talking about growing up, in the emotional sense - which is, of
course, very much what the book is about.
Avedon
ave...@cix.co.uk
"You can learn a lot about people from what they're like." - Harry Hill
Kathy Routliffe
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:
>
> In article <01be24d4$3f806b80$bfd0...@bjf.wavefront.com>, "Beth Friedman"
> <b...@wavefront.com> writes:
>
> >
> >Rather like the cherries in _The Family Nobody Wanted_. (If anyone but me
> >has read that.)
>
> Well, yes, but it was a long time ago. (Not long enough that I've
> misremembered Harry Harrison as the author, but long enough that I got it
> from Scholastic Book Service.) I remember the basic premise -- it's a
> memoir written by the wife of a couple that end up adopting something like
> nine chldren of assorted races and disabilities -- but not too many
> details, and I'm not sure whether the one scene I associate with it --
> they're so broke that they eat a very old can of rattlesnake meat kept as a
> souvenir; a frequent visitor picks up the can, finds it empty, and
> realizes their dire straits -- actually comes from there or not.
My copy was Scholastic as well. And the rattle-snake tin scene, which
I've remembered for years, *does* come from the book. One of my favorite
memories is of mom coming into each of the bedrooms and describing the
way the hair of her children flows out differently across each pillow:
jet black, curly blonde, deep brown, etc.
And cherry story was apiece with the story of wallpapering, while trying
to keep at least a couple of kids clean in the days of old-fashioned
diapers. It was my idea of pure hell for some time after reading the
book, although the end, when she and her husband just get struck by the
hilarity of it all, is wonderful.
Kathy
--
Now that you mention it, it *is* a great day!
Alison Scott
(quoting someone)
>>My absolute fave in the genre of a limited kitchen is Katherine
>>Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter," which teaches us how to make dinner
>>with no refrigerator, no counterspace, no microwave, and running water
>>down the hall.
>
>Hmmm! References, please? (Another reason for amazon.com, you
>see....)
"Cooking in a Bedsitter" is *the* classic UK
student-and-young-unmarried cookbook. In a weird sort of retro
censorship, you need to get the original version - when it was revised
and updated, some of the funniest bits were taken out. In particular,
the chapter entitled "The Third Paw", about cooking for a member of
the opposite sex visiting your bedsitter, had its name changed and
various innuendos removed. The original title came from the notion
that a dog has four thoughts, one for each paw - food, food, sex and
food.
It has loads of brilliant and foolproof recipes which are totally
unsuitable for anyone with an educated palate. But it is most useful
for its philosophy (don't think little me all on my lonesome, think me
on my own with nothing but my enormous appetite. Buy the largest
saucepan you can find) and its recipe segregation, which is into,
basically, "coming home after work and wanting something you can eat
quickly", "cooking something a bit harder for you and a fellow bedsit
inhabitant", "cooking something to convince your parents, when they
visit, that you're feeding yourself all right" and "cooking something
when you're trying to seduce someone" which is further divided into
men (give them good cheese and beer) and women (don't whatever you do
expect her to do the washing up, or worse, the cooking).
I used to have another Katherine Whitehorn cookbook, which was another
'abandoned man' cookbook, again with illustrations of a medium onion
and so on. This worked on the premise that the abandoned man was
cooking for a fortnight for himself and children while his wife was in
hospital with a new baby. At least part of the reason for a lengthy
lying in is clear from this book - if women were sent home with their
babies after 24 hours or less, they'd have been cooking the family
dinner that night.
But it has two critically useful tips for worried cooks - the first is
that you can produce a perfectly acceptable meal without cooking at
all (something which is a lot less surprising to people in these days
of pre-packaged meals), and the second is that it is perfectly
reasonable to have a takeaway on Friday night if you've struggled
through the rest of the week. Everyone will like fish & chips, and no
cooking.
--
Alison Scott ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk
Now with added cobwebs: www.fuggles.demon.co.uk
Dorothy J Heydt
Alison Scott <ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Cooking in a Bedsitter" is *the* classic UK
>student-and-young-unmarried cookbook. In a weird sort of retro
>
>It has loads of brilliant and foolproof recipes which are totally
>unsuitable for anyone with an educated palate. But it is most useful
>for its philosophy (don't think little me all on my lonesome, think me
>on my own with nothing but my enormous appetite. Buy the largest
>saucepan you can find) and its recipe segregation, which is into,
>basically, "coming home after work and wanting something you can eat
>quickly", "cooking something a bit harder for you and a fellow bedsit
>inhabitant", "cooking something to convince your parents, when they
>visit, that you're feeding yourself all right" and "cooking something
>when you're trying to seduce someone" which is further divided into
>men (give them good cheese and beer) and women (don't whatever you do
>expect her to do the washing up, or worse, the cooking).
Hmmm. This begins to sound rather like a wonderful pamphlet-sized
cookbook called "The Improverished Student's Guide to Cookery,
Drinkery, and Housekeepery", published by some students at
Reed College (Oregon) in the 1960s. It begins by telling you how
to get your minimal pots and pans at the thrift store, what to do
with rice, how to make an infinite variety of casseroles, what to
do if Faculty are coming to dinner, how to budget ... and how to
make beer, which was illegal to do at home at that time, so after
telling you all about how-to in the conditional mode, it ended,
"That's how you'd make beer. Isn't it a pity it's illegal?"
(It's legal now.)
Julie Stampnitzky
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> >>My absolute fave in the genre of a limited kitchen is Katherine
> >>Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter," which teaches us how to make dinner
> >>with no refrigerator, no counterspace, no microwave, and running water
> >>down the hall.
Sounds like a book I could use. I recently became the proud purchaser of
one pot and one frying pan. (I already had an electric kettle, essential
for instant soup and jello.)
> >Hmmm! References, please? (Another reason for amazon.com, you
> >see....)
>
> Amazon doesn't seem to be aware of it. I bought my copy in the UK. I
Try amazon.co.uk :-) Another book in this genre is Grub on a Grant.
Anyway, since it's Chanukah, here's my recipe for latkes, which I worked
out the first year I lived on my own:
3 potatoes
1 small onion (or half a large one)
1 egg
small handful of matza meal
salt and pepper to taste
Grate the vegetables. Mix in the other ingredients. Heat some oil in a
frying pan and drop in spoonfuls of the mixture. (What do you mean, you're
on a diet? Oil is the theme of the holiday!)
--
Julie Stampnitzky Rechovot, Israel
homepage: http://www.yucs.org/~jules
Darkover site: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/8275
Dorothy J Heydt
Julie Stampnitzky <jsta...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
>Anyway, since it's Chanukah, here's my recipe for latkes, which I worked
>out the first year I lived on my own:
>3 potatoes
>1 small onion (or half a large one)
>1 egg
>small handful of matza meal
>salt and pepper to taste
>
>Grate the vegetables. Mix in the other ingredients. Heat some oil in a
>frying pan and drop in spoonfuls of the mixture. (What do you mean, you're
>on a diet? Oil is the theme of the holiday!)
Aren't you supposed to drain the potato shreds on a towel (paper
or other) so they don't ooze so much?
(not that I'm an expert. Not being Jewish, I've encountered the
things about twice--cooked superbly by others--and once cooked
badly by me.)
Beth Friedman
<F40zn...@kithrup.com>...
> Aren't you supposed to drain the potato shreds on a towel (paper
> or other) so they don't ooze so much?
Well, it's a good idea to get the potato water out somehow. Karen
Cooper puts them in a cheesecloth and squeezes the water out, I think.
My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.) I let the
grated stuff sit in a bowl for a while, then take a spoon and remove
the potato water that's separated out.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Julie Stampnitzky
[Re: recipe for potato latkes]
> Aren't you supposed to drain the potato shreds on a towel (paper
> or other) so they don't ooze so much?
It might depend on the type of potatoes you use, and whether you grate
them into shreds or into sizable slivers. If it looks to oozy, I just
tilt the bowl and let some of the liquid drain out, or I spoon away some
of the liquid.
--
Julie Stampnitzky Rehovot, Israel
Ailsa Murphy
> Julie Stampnitzky <jsta...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
>
> >Anyway, since it's Chanukah, here's my recipe for latkes, which I worked
> >out the first year I lived on my own:
> >3 potatoes
> >1 small onion (or half a large one)
> >1 egg
> >small handful of matza meal
> >salt and pepper to taste
> >
> >Grate the vegetables. Mix in the other ingredients. Heat some oil in a
> >frying pan and drop in spoonfuls of the mixture. (What do you mean, you're
> >on a diet? Oil is the theme of the holiday!)
>
> or other) so they don't ooze so much?
>
> things about twice--cooked superbly by others--and once cooked
> badly by me.)
>
The way I know to do it is to wrap them all in a towel and wring the whoel
mess out. I have one towel that's the latke towel, cos they're never quite
white again after that...
-Ailsa
--
But to explicitly advocate cultural relativism ailsa....@tfn.com
on the grounds that it promotes tolerance is to Ailsa N.T. Murphy
implicitly assume that tolerance is an absolute value. If there are any
absolute values, however, cultural relativism is false. -Theodore Schick
Karen E Cooper
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in article
><F40zn...@kithrup.com>...
>> Aren't you supposed to drain the potato shreds on a towel (paper
>> or other) so they don't ooze so much?
>Well, it's a good idea to get the potato water out somehow. Karen
>Cooper puts them in a cheesecloth and squeezes the water out, I think.
No, actually I use a tea towel, the kind which I wash in hottest water
with bleach, and use for everything from a strainer to a hot pad to wiping
away tears. I can never find cheesecloth at the stores. I use tea towels
for everything in the kitchen except greasing baking pans and cleaning up
after the cat.
>My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
>into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
>potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.) I let the
>grated stuff sit in a bowl for a while, then take a spoon and remove
>the potato water that's separated out.
And I shall attempt to duplicate these when I make latkes.
Rubber gloves, eh? I cannot bear them.
Karen. [also finds gardening with gloves on impossible]
Aahz Maruch
Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>
>My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
>into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
>potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
Thus my question a while back about whether blood is kosher. It is.
--
--- Aahz (@netcom.com)
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 <*> -=> http://www.rahul.net/aahz
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het
"Just because I'm selling you into slavery doesn't mean we can't be
friends." B-movie cliche Hall of Fame (_Bounty Hunter: 2002_)
Adina Adler
> "Beth Friedman" <b...@wavefront.com> writes:
>
> >Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in article
> ><F40zn...@kithrup.com>...
> >> Aren't you supposed to drain the potato shreds on a towel (paper
> >> or other) so they don't ooze so much?
>
> >Well, it's a good idea to get the potato water out somehow. Karen
> >Cooper puts them in a cheesecloth and squeezes the water out, I think.
>
> No, actually I use a tea towel, the kind which I wash in hottest water
> with bleach, and use for everything from a strainer to a hot pad to wiping
> away tears. I can never find cheesecloth at the stores. I use tea towels
> for everything in the kitchen except greasing baking pans and cleaning up
> after the cat.
>
> >My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
> >into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
> >potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.) I let the
> >grated stuff sit in a bowl for a while, then take a spoon and remove
> >the potato water that's separated out.
If you have the appropriate tools, you can avoid shedding blood. My
mother used to have an electric sort of grinder thing, in which you
used a wooden pestle to force the potato pieces down a funnel onto a
large metal screw which then pushed the potato through one of several
grating screens. I think there's something similar you can get as an
attachment to a Kitchen Aid mixer. Alternatively, you can use a food
processor with a grating blade.
> And I shall attempt to duplicate these when I make latkes.
>
> Rubber gloves, eh? I cannot bear them.
>
> Karen. [also finds gardening with gloves on impossible]
--
Aahz Maruch
Adina Adler <ad...@shell3.shore.net> wrote:
>
>If you have the appropriate tools, you can avoid shedding blood. My
>mother used to have an electric sort of grinder thing, in which you
>used a wooden pestle to force the potato pieces down a funnel onto a
>large metal screw which then pushed the potato through one of several
>grating screens. I think there's something similar you can get as an
>attachment to a Kitchen Aid mixer. Alternatively, you can use a food
>processor with a grating blade.
Potato ricer. So many catalogs, so little money.
Marilee J. Layman
(Karen E Cooper) wrote:
>No, actually I use a tea towel, the kind which I wash in hottest water
>with bleach, and use for everything from a strainer to a hot pad to wiping
>away tears. I can never find cheesecloth at the stores. I use tea towels
>for everything in the kitchen except greasing baking pans and cleaning up
>after the cat.
Yep, me too, the uppity kind with Linen in red on the sides. They're
the only things I wash in hot with bleach. (I wash the hand towels in
the bathrooms in hot water with non-chlorine bleach.)
>Rubber gloves, eh? I cannot bear them.
My problem with rubber gloves is that I have very small hands, but
large wrists and even larger forearms. If I buy medium rubber gloves,
they fit my wrists and forearms okay, but I have about an inch and a
half of glove finger beyond each of my real fingers and that's really
impossible to work in. If I buy small gloves, there's only a tiny bit
of glove finger beyond my fingers, but the openings are bunched up at
my wrist. I haven't tried transplantation yet.
--
Marilee J. Layman Co-Leader, The Other*Worlds*Cafe
relm...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group
*New* Web site: http://www.webmoose.com/owc/
AOL keyword: BOOKs > Books Community > The Other*Worlds*Cafe (listbox)
Cally Soukup
> In article <30pk8zr...@shell3.shore.net>,
> Adina Adler <ad...@shell3.shore.net> wrote:
>>
>>If you have the appropriate tools, you can avoid shedding blood. My
>>mother used to have an electric sort of grinder thing, in which you
>>used a wooden pestle to force the potato pieces down a funnel onto a
>>large metal screw which then pushed the potato through one of several
>>grating screens. I think there's something similar you can get as an
>>attachment to a Kitchen Aid mixer. Alternatively, you can use a food
>>processor with a grating blade.
> Potato ricer. So many catalogs, so little money.
I don't think a potato ricer would work on a raw potato. At least
the manual potato ricer that I have wouldn't. Perhaps an electric
ricer would, if such a thing exists.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Beth Friedman
<kecooper....@garnet.tc.umn.edu>...
> "Beth Friedman" <b...@wavefront.com> writes:
> >My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
> >into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
> >potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.) I let the
> >grated stuff sit in a bowl for a while, then take a spoon and remove
> >the potato water that's separated out.
>
And I am exceedingly grateful.
> Rubber gloves, eh? I cannot bear them.
I don't like them much, either, but they made grating potatoes much
easier for me. Of course, in these wondrous days, the Cuisinart can
replace the grater, making the gloves and blood superfluous.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Alter S. Reiss
> In article <F40zn...@kithrup.com>,
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> > In article <Pine.A41.4.05.981215...@acis.mc.yu.edu>,
> > Julie Stampnitzky <jsta...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
> >
> > >Anyway, since it's Chanukah, here's my recipe for latkes, which I worked
> > >out the first year I lived on my own:
> > >3 potatoes
> > >1 small onion (or half a large one)
> > >1 egg
> > >small handful of matza meal
> > >salt and pepper to taste
> > >
> > >Grate the vegetables. Mix in the other ingredients. Heat some oil in a
> > >frying pan and drop in spoonfuls of the mixture. (What do you mean, you're
> > >on a diet? Oil is the theme of the holiday!)
> >
> > or other) so they don't ooze so much?
> >
> > things about twice--cooked superbly by others--and once cooked
> > badly by me.)
> >
>
> The way I know to do it is to wrap them all in a towel and wring the whoel
> mess out. I have one towel that's the latke towel, cos they're never quite
> white again after that...
While I'm not that huge a fan of latkes, I do rather like using
the oil they've been fried in to dip fresh rye bread into, and eat. This
was another pointless insight into my personal universe.
--
Alter S. Reiss --- www.geocities.com/Area51/2129 --- asr...@ymail.yu.edu
"Allright, I think I've figured it out. It can go up
or down, but not side-to-side or backwards in time."
Alter S. Reiss
> In article <01be28c1$14e4f120$b9d0...@bjf.wavefront.com>,
> Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
> >
> >into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
> >potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
>
Er. Um. Well, I, er. That is to say, not to the best of my
knowledge.
Aahz Maruch
Alter S. Reiss <asr...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Aahz Maruch wrote:
>> In article <01be28c1$14e4f120$b9d0...@bjf.wavefront.com>,
>> Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
>> >into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
>> >potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
>>
>> Thus my question a while back about whether blood is kosher. It is.
>
> Er. Um. Well, I, er. That is to say, not to the best of my
>knowledge.
So putting a bit of elbow grease into latkes makes 'em treif? Or is
there a bracha to excuse it?
Ailsa Murphy
"Beth Friedman" <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
> My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
> into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
> potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.) [...]
>
I prefer a food processor for the potentially injurous parts.
Adina Adler
> In article <30pk8zr...@shell3.shore.net>,
> Adina Adler <ad...@shell3.shore.net> wrote:
> >
> >If you have the appropriate tools, you can avoid shedding blood. My
> >mother used to have an electric sort of grinder thing, in which you
> >used a wooden pestle to force the potato pieces down a funnel onto a
> >large metal screw which then pushed the potato through one of several
> >grating screens. I think there's something similar you can get as an
> >attachment to a Kitchen Aid mixer. Alternatively, you can use a food
> >processor with a grating blade.
>
> Potato ricer. So many catalogs, so little money.
I don't think so. From what I've read, a potato ricer is for making
mashed potatoes, and the potato needs to be cooked first. I suppose
you could make latkes from cooked potatoes, but they'd be very
different from the ones my mother made...
From the Epicurious Dictionary (http://epicurious.com):
*ricer* Also called a potato ricer, this kitchen utensil resembles a
large garlic press. Cooked food such as potatoes, carrots or turnips
is placed in the container. A lever-operated plunger is pushed down
into the food, forcing it out through numerous tiny holes in the
bottom of the container. The result is food that (vaguely) resembles
grains of rice. Ricers come in a variety of shapes, the most common
being a 3- to 4-inch round basket or a V-shaped bucket. They're
generally made of chromed steel or cast aluminum and can be found in
specialty cookware shops.
Janice Gelb
>In article <01be28c1$14e4f120$b9d0...@bjf.wavefront.com>,
>Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>>
>>My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
>>into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
>>potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
>
>
Huh? Blood is definitely not kosher, thus all the hassle about
salting meat. Where did you get the impression that it is?
***********************************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janic...@marvin.eng.sun.com | this message is the return address.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8018/index.html
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain"
-- Lily Tomlin
Karen E Cooper
>In article B...@netcom.com, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>>In article <01be28c1$14e4f120$b9d0...@bjf.wavefront.com>,
>>Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
>>>into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
>>>potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
>>
>>Thus my question a while back about whether blood is kosher. It is.
>>
>Huh? Blood is definitely not kosher, thus all the hassle about
>salting meat. Where did you get the impression that it is?
Just for the record, and not that it matters, I'll be making these with a
food processor.
Karen.
Karen E Cooper
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>(quoting someone)
(That'd be me, actually.)
>>>My absolute fave in the genre of a limited kitchen is Katherine
>>>Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter," which teaches us how to make dinner
>>>with no refrigerator, no counterspace, no microwave, and running water
>>>down the hall.
>"Cooking in a Bedsitter" is *the* classic UK
>student-and-young-unmarried cookbook.
[...]
>But it is most useful
>for its philosophy (don't think little me all on my lonesome, think me
>on my own with nothing but my enormous appetite. Buy the largest
>saucepan you can find)
[...]
I don't know of any accomodations of any kind in the US wherein one would
have a single burner stove *and nothing else* for kitchen equipment, yet
this seems to be the standard situation for which Whitehorn provides
useful and entertaining work-arounds. (I was particularily charmed by
"Marinade -- the Poor Man's Refrigerator.")
Karen. [not college dorms (at least the ones I've been in); even the
shabby apartment my son lived in with the shared bath had a
private full kitchen]
Julie Stampnitzky
> In article B...@netcom.com, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
> >In article <01be28c1$14e4f120$b9d0...@bjf.wavefront.com>,
> >Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
> >>into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
> >>potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
> >
> >Thus my question a while back about whether blood is kosher. It is.
> >
>
> Huh? Blood is definitely not kosher, thus all the hassle about
> salting meat. Where did you get the impression that it is?
I think he was joking. That is, I think he realizes that Beth's family
recipe =/= the laws of kashrut.
(This example would be forbidden on three counts: blood isn't kosher,
humans aren't kosher, and and blood/flesh taken from a living being isn't
kosher. Just to get the ObJewishMinutia straight.)
Ed Dravecky III
> In article B...@netcom.com, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
> >Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
> >>My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
> >>into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
> >>potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
> >Thus my question a while back about whether blood is kosher. It is.
> Huh? Blood is definitely not kosher, thus all the hassle about
> salting meat. Where did you get the impression that it is?
Not to reopen the "Kosher" debate that never actually ended but
I thought we'd learned that minute amounts of *human* flesh and
blood entering the food as a result of the preparation of said
food did not render that food treif/non-kosher.
I can't imagine that Aahz was proposing a tall glass of "human
blood" as an excellent way to wash down your latkes. (Yuck!)
--
Ed Dravecky III <*> dshe...@netcom.com
"Due South" fans, please visit http://www.rcw139.org/
Adina Adler
Well, when I was in college (20 years ago), there was one kitchen in
my dormitory. I've just checked the dorm's web page, and there's now
one kitchen per floor, which means they've gone up to 10
kitchens. But that's for 440 residents. The newer dorms have more
kitchens, though.
Aahz Maruch
Janice Gelb <jan...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
>In article B...@netcom.com, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>>Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
>>>into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
>>>potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
>>
>>Thus my question a while back about whether blood is kosher. It is.
>
>Huh? Blood is definitely not kosher, thus all the hassle about
>salting meat. Where did you get the impression that it is?
From Debra Fran Baker last year. Note that we're specifically talking
about human blood -- do a DejaNews search on "blood latkes" if you don't
believe me.
Karen E Cooper
Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. Let me try again.
Neither of the dorms on the two campuses I have been to (and those within
the last 12 months -- I never lived in dorms myself) have have a single
burner stove *and nothing else* for kitchen equipment; each case had a
full, though shared, kitchen. The other LCD of housing I have recently
seen (my son's apartment with the shared bathroom) had a full private
kitchen.
Katherine Whitehorn's book, "Cooking in a Bedsitter," is full of advice
for people who have no refrigerator, nor counterspace, and running water
only down the hall in the shared bath. The cooking arrangements in the
living quarters she describes are a "gas ring" (or two) and nothing else.
I do not know of any living quarters in the US where one would expect to
find the cooking arrangements Whitehorn has written a cookbook about.
Such undoubtedly exists, but I do not know of any low-end housing (not,
for instance the local residence hotels) that fits my understanding of a
"bedsitter."
Karen. [would be interested in being proved wrong]
Dorothy J Heydt
Julie Stampnitzky <jsta...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
>I think he was joking. That is, I think he realizes that Beth's family
>recipe =/= the laws of kashrut.
>(This example would be forbidden on three counts: blood isn't kosher,
>humans aren't kosher, and and blood/flesh taken from a living being isn't
>kosher. Just to get the ObJewishMinutia straight.)
And besides, even if it were, you couldn't put sour cream on the
latkes, could you?
Dorothy J Heydt
Karen E Cooper <keco...@garnet.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>I don't know of any accomodations of any kind in the US wherein one would
>have a single burner stove *and nothing else* for kitchen equipment, yet
>this seems to be the standard situation for which Whitehorn provides
>useful and entertaining work-arounds. (I was particularily charmed by
>"Marinade -- the Poor Man's Refrigerator.")
What is the date of publication of _KiaB_? I've read about
"furnished rooms" in the US where you "didn't have kitchen
privileges" and cooked whatever you cooked on one burner which
was officially forbidden and hidden from the landlady's gaze
in a closet between uses. But I think they were mostly a while
back (I know of one in 1950).
Kate Schaefer
In a previous article, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) says:
>In article <Pine.A41.4.05.981217...@acis.mc.yu.edu>,
>Alter S. Reiss <asr...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
>>On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Aahz Maruch wrote:
>>> In article <01be28c1$14e4f120$b9d0...@bjf.wavefront.com>,
>>> Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
>>> >into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
>>> >potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
>>>
>>> Thus my question a while back about whether blood is kosher. It is.
>>
>> Er. Um. Well, I, er. That is to say, not to the best of my
>>knowledge.
>
>So putting a bit of elbow grease into latkes makes 'em treif? Or is
>there a bracha to excuse it?
We did this already, as Beth says. Deborah and Zev agreed that the human
blood incidentally grated into potato latkes is kosher, although human
blood consumed on purpose would not be. Next!
--
Kate Schaefer
ka...@scn.org
Bernard Peek
>
>I don't know of any accomodations of any kind in the US wherein one would
>have a single burner stove *and nothing else* for kitchen equipment, yet
>this seems to be the standard situation for which Whitehorn provides
>useful and entertaining work-arounds. (I was particularily charmed by
>"Marinade -- the Poor Man's Refrigerator.")
In the mid-seventies I lived in a bedsit where the only cooking
equipment provided in the room was a single electric heating ring. There
was a kitchen too, but the cooker there was always dirty. I never used
it.
It was more common to have a "Baby Belling" which is a small electric
cooker. It has two heating rings and an oven/grill about the size of a
microwave. Because of power limitations you can't use two rings and the
oven simultaneously. They are still on sale.
IIRC Archie and Beryl Mercer did all of their cooking on one of those.
When they got a little more money they decided to splash out, they
bought a second one.
I've now bought a new cooker, which is scheduled to be installed on
Tuesday. It would have been fitted today but we had a power-cut and they
couldn't drill the holes for the gas piping. Tuesday is cutting it a
little fine for cooking the Christmas Dinner. But it looks as if I'll
have heating again by then.
I knew things were going too well with the move to the new house.
Something *had* to go wrong. How could I hold my head up in the company
of other homebuyers without having my own share of disaster stories.
--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
Michael T Pins
>I don't know of any accomodations of any kind in the US wherein one would
>have a single burner stove *and nothing else* for kitchen equipment, yet
>this seems to be the standard situation for which Whitehorn provides
>useful and entertaining work-arounds. (I was particularily charmed by
>"Marinade -- the Poor Man's Refrigerator.")
>Karen. [not college dorms (at least the ones I've been in); even the
> shabby apartment my son lived in with the shared bath had a
> private full kitchen]
Most college dorms have no kitchen at all. Students who live there are
expected to buy a board plan and eat in the cafeteria. However, an
electric single-element stove is (or at least used to be) cheap, and
before microwaves became cheap were often owned by college students.
This will give you the situation described by Whitehorn. As recently
as ten years ago both electric stoves and microwaves were banned in many
dorms, but that never stopped people from having them anyway.
--
**************************************************************************
* Michael T Pins | mtp...@visi.com *
* keeper of the nn sources | mtp...@isca.uiowa.edu *
* ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/mtpins | #include <std.disclaimer> *
Janice Gelb
>Janice Gelb (jan...@eng.sun.com) wrote:
>> In article B...@netcom.com, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>> >>My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
>> >>into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
>> >>potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
>> >Thus my question a while back about whether blood is kosher. It is.
>> salting meat. Where did you get the impression that it is?
>
>I thought we'd learned that minute amounts of *human* flesh and
>blood entering the food as a result of the preparation of said
>food did not render that food treif/non-kosher.
>
Ah... Missed that discussion so I didn't get the reference.
However, there's a difference between saying, as Aahz did, that
blood is kosher, and saying that minute amounts of blood entering
food as a result of preparation does not render the food treyf.
Beth Friedman
<kecooper....@garnet.tc.umn.edu>...
> Neither of the dorms on the two campuses I have been to (and those
a
> single burner stove *and nothing else* for kitchen equipment;
My first year at college, that's essentially what I had. There was no
kitchen (therefore no kitchen equipment), but one of the students down
the hall from me had a single-burner stove. And some people had itty
bitty refrigerators in their rooms, but I didn't.
My second year, I lived in a more modern dorm, and it had a kitchen on
each floor.
On the other hand, dorm students were all on full board; there was no
reason to cook unless you wanted to for some special occasion.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Zev Sero
>Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>>My family recipe involves grating the potatoes not into shreds, but
>>into potato mush. (This usually involves a bit of blood in the
>>potatoes, and at least one ruined pair of rubber gloves.)
>Thus my question a while back about whether blood is kosher. It is.
Well, no, it isn't; but human blood doesn't contaminate a food into
which it was accidentally mixed, and make it treif, so the latkes are
OK unless the blood is more than 50% of the mixture (in which case it
isn't blood that got mixed into food, it's food that got mixed into
blood, and it's treif).
--
Zev Sero Vote Libertarian and WIN a FREE country
zs...@bigfoot.com
Zev Sero
>In article <Pine.A41.4.05.981217...@acis.mc.yu.edu>,
>Julie Stampnitzky <jsta...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
>>I think he was joking. That is, I think he realizes that Beth's family
>>recipe =/= the laws of kashrut.
>>(This example would be forbidden on three counts: blood isn't kosher,
>>humans aren't kosher, and and blood/flesh taken from a living being isn't
>>kosher. Just to get the ObJewishMinutia straight.)
Human blood is in the same category as fish blood, i.e. it doesn't
inherently count as blood for the purpose of the Biblical prohibition,
but it's forbidden by Rabbinic law because it could be confused with
animal and poultry blood. This prohibition doesn't extend to food
in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
>And besides, even if it were, you couldn't put sour cream on the
>latkes, could you?
Well, yes, you could, actually.
Jason Stokes
<zs...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Human blood is in the same category as fish blood, i.e. it doesn't
>inherently count as blood for the purpose of the Biblical prohibition,
>but it's forbidden by Rabbinic law because it could be confused with
>animal and poultry blood. This prohibition doesn't extend to food
>in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
>blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
>food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
>eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
If I do a DNA test on the blood, can I use it then? Such are the stuff
of rabinnical legalisms... it really is beyond satire.
--
Jason Stokes: js...@bluedog.apana.org.au
Joel Rosenberg
Karen E Cooper wrote in message ...
>I don't know of any accomodations of any kind in the US wherein one would
>have a single burner stove *and nothing else* for kitchen equipment, yet
>this seems to be the standard situation for which Whitehorn provides
>useful and entertaining work-arounds. (I was particularily charmed by
>"Marinade -- the Poor Man's Refrigerator.")
>
>Karen. [not college dorms (at least the ones I've been in); even the
> shabby apartment my son lived in with the shared bath had a
> private full kitchen]
That was the case in most -- not all -- undergraduate college dorms at UConn
during my years there, and in fact hotplates were prohibited, although
common. It encouraged a certain amount of creativity.
>
Geri Sullivan
>
> Karen E Cooper wrote in message ...
>
> >I don't know of any accomodations of any kind in the US wherein one would
> >have a single burner stove *and nothing else* for kitchen equipment, yet
<snip>
> That was the case in most -- not all -- undergraduate college dorms at UConn
> during my years there, and in fact hotplates were prohibited, although
> common. It encouraged a certain amount of creativity.
You've just reminded me of the joys of making Pillsbury slice'n'bake
chocolate chip cookies in an electric frying pan, something that the
rest of this thread hadn't yet managed to do. Thank you!
Geri [it's a toss-up between the dough and still-warm cookies for me;
the dough wins with ease over cooled cookies]
--
Geri Sullivan g...@toad-hall.com
==============================
"These shoes are not a cookie jar."
Doug Wickstrom
modulated the bit stream to say:
>aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>
>> In article <30pk8zr...@shell3.shore.net>,
>> Adina Adler <ad...@shell3.shore.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >If you have the appropriate tools, you can avoid shedding blood. My
>> >mother used to have an electric sort of grinder thing, in which you
>> >used a wooden pestle to force the potato pieces down a funnel onto a
>> >large metal screw which then pushed the potato through one of several
>> >grating screens. I think there's something similar you can get as an
>> >attachment to a Kitchen Aid mixer. Alternatively, you can use a food
>> >processor with a grating blade.
>>
>> Potato ricer. So many catalogs, so little money.
>
>I don't think so. From what I've read, a potato ricer is for making
>mashed potatoes, and the potato needs to be cooked first. I suppose
>you could make latkes from cooked potatoes, but they'd be very
>different from the ones my mother made...
A ricer is used for making riced potatoes; the potatoes are steamed
first. It's not necessary to rice potatoes before mashing them, of
course, and mashed potatoes that have been riced first don't have the
right texture, IMNSHO.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Tsuyu to ochi, tsuyu to kienishi. Waga mi ka na?
Naniwa no koto mo, yume mo matayume." --Toyotomi Hideyoshi
Doug Wickstrom
Cooper) modulated the bit stream to say:
>Katherine Whitehorn's book, "Cooking in a Bedsitter," is full of advice
>for people who have no refrigerator, nor counterspace, and running water
>only down the hall in the shared bath. The cooking arrangements in the
>living quarters she describes are a "gas ring" (or two) and nothing else.
>
>I do not know of any living quarters in the US where one would expect to
>find the cooking arrangements Whitehorn has written a cookbook about.
>Such undoubtedly exists, but I do not know of any low-end housing (not,
>for instance the local residence hotels) that fits my understanding of a
>"bedsitter."
It describes a barracks room quite well, except you have to hide your
hot plate, as you're not supposed to cook in the room at _all_.
Alter S. Reiss
> On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> >In article <Pine.A41.4.05.981217...@acis.mc.yu.edu>,
> >Julie Stampnitzky <jsta...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
>
> >>I think he was joking. That is, I think he realizes that Beth's family
> >>recipe =/= the laws of kashrut.
> >>(This example would be forbidden on three counts: blood isn't kosher,
> >>humans aren't kosher, and and blood/flesh taken from a living being isn't
> >>kosher. Just to get the ObJewishMinutia straight.)
>
> inherently count as blood for the purpose of the Biblical prohibition,
> but it's forbidden by Rabbinic law because it could be confused with
> animal and poultry blood.
I have no idea what you are talking about here. Fish blood from
kosher fishes is considered honest to goodness kosher, and fish blood from
non-kosher fishes is prohibited, not because it is essentially non-kosher,
but for the same reason that milk from non-kosher animals is prohibited,
as it is stuff which comes from a non-kosher animal.
To get this whole human blood thing straight, human flesh is
generally considered to be prohibited because of a negative injunction
that stems from a positive injunction; "these thou shalt eat", while
phrased in the positive is considered to be the source for the injunction
against eating human flesh (Nahmanidies may say that it's a rabbinical
injunction; I haven't been able to track that down).
For Jews, at least, the prohibition on eating from live animals
only applies to kosher animals. People aren't kosher.
Because humans aren't considered to be in the catagories of "wild
animals, domesticated animals, and birds", on which (both kosher and non
kosher here) the prohibition on eating blood is made, human blood is not
considered non-kosher by biblical law. However, a rabbinic enactment was
made, to make human blood non-kosher. This only applies when the blood is
separate from the body, it ought be noted; a person with a cut in their
mouth is not in violation.
> This prohibition doesn't extend to food
> in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
> blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
> food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
> eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
If the blood, or bits with blood in, are easily seperable, mixing
them in more is a clear violation of the law, and I believe that the whole
thing is then considered non-kosher.
And while I'm pretty sure that you're right about it requiring a
majority of blood to make a mixture non-kosher, it may be that it is one
of those one part in sixty things; for those that are troubled by
questions of this sort, asking a legitimate authority is probably a better
course than listening to some yahoos on Usenet.
>
> >And besides, even if it were, you couldn't put sour cream on the
> >latkes, could you?
>
> Well, yes, you could, actually.
There is that "if" there. If human flesh were kosher, then if you
got a sufficient quantity of blood into your latkes, no sour cream would
be permitted. Being as it's not, the milk and meat thing doesn't matter,
as that only applies to kosher meat.
--
Alter S. Reiss --- www.geocities.com/Area51/2129 --- asr...@ymail.yu.edu
"Allright, I think I've figured it out. It can go up
or down, but not side-to-side or backwards in time."
Zev Sero
> Zev Sero <zs...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>Human blood is in the same category as fish blood, i.e. it doesn't
>>inherently count as blood for the purpose of the Biblical prohibition,
>>but it's forbidden by Rabbinic law because it could be confused with
>>animal and poultry blood. This prohibition doesn't extend to food
>>in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
>>blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
>>food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
>>eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
>If I do a DNA test on the blood, can I use it then? Such are the stuff
>of rabinnical legalisms... it really is beyond satire.
Eh?
Julie Stampnitzky
> This prohibition doesn't extend to food
> in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
> blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
> food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
> eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
I asked a knowledgeable friend, and he said that you would only be
permitted to eat this mixture if the blood was less than 1/60th of it, AND
the blood could not be tasted. (If you want the references in the Gemara
and Shulchan Aruch, email me.)
Ulrika
In article <367ae28f...@news.idt.net>, zs...@bigfoot.com (Zev Sero)
writes:
>This prohibition doesn't extend to food
>in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
>blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
>food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
>eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
It's not that big an assumption. I might want to, for
instance. Black pudding, and Swedish blood pudding, and undoubtedly lots of
other variants, are mostly blood. Pig's blood usually, I think, so treif for
other reasons anyway, but quite nice
with a bit of lingonberry preserves.
"Yes, indeed, the Lord is a shoving leopard." -- Rev. W.A. Spooner
** Ulrika O'Brien-...@aol.com**
Julie Stampnitzky
> In article <367ae28f...@news.idt.net>, zs...@bigfoot.com (Zev Sero)
> writes:
>
> >This prohibition doesn't extend to food
> >in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
> >blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
> >food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
> >eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
>
> It's not that big an assumption. I might want to, for
> instance. Black pudding, and Swedish blood pudding, and undoubtedly lots of
> other variants, are mostly blood. Pig's blood usually, I think, so treif for
> other reasons anyway, but quite nice with a bit of lingonberry
> preserves.
Yes, but would you want to if it were human blood?
--
Julie Stampnitzky Rechovot, Israel
homepage: http://www.yucs.org/~jules
Darkover site: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/8275
"From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way."
Jonathan J. Baker
>If you have the appropriate tools, you can avoid shedding blood. My
>mother used to have an electric sort of grinder thing, in which you
>used a wooden pestle to force the potato pieces down a funnel onto a
>large metal screw which then pushed the potato through one of several
>grating screens. I think there's something similar you can get as an
>attachment to a Kitchen Aid mixer. Alternatively, you can use a food
>processor with a grating blade.
My mother used to use such a thing (made by Hamilton Beach, I believe),
for making chopped liver. For all I know she still does, althought
she tends to get very strong food-processors. I think she uses the food
processor for her low-fat part-potato, part-zucchini, low oil (yes, I
know the point is the oil, just try telling her) latkes.
--
Jonathan Baker | @ Happy Hanucca!
jjb...@panix.com | @ @ @ @ U @ @ @ @
Zev Sero
>On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Zev Sero wrote:
>> Human blood is in the same category as fish blood, i.e. it doesn't
>> inherently count as blood for the purpose of the Biblical prohibition,
>> but it's forbidden by Rabbinic law because it could be confused with
>> animal and poultry blood.
> I have no idea what you are talking about here.
See Shulchan Aruch (the most authoritative code of Jewish law),
CM 66:9-10
9. Fish blood, even though it is [ZS: inherently] permitted, if it
was gathered in a container it's forbidden, because of giving the
wrong appearance. Therefore, if it's obvious that it's from fish,
e.g. there are scales floating in it, then it's permitted.
10. Human blood, if it has separated from the person, is forbidden
because of giving the wrong appearance. Therefore, if one bit a
loaf with ones teeth, and blood came out of ones teeth onto the
loaf, then one must scrape it off, but that which remains between
the teeth may be sucked. (Note: All fish and human blood, since
it's permitted by the underlying law, doesn't make a mixture
containing it forbidden.)
Note especially the note on para 10, which explicitly equates fish and
human blood.
> Fish blood from kosher fishes is considered honest to goodness kosher
Not if it's in a bowl on its own.
>However, a rabbinic enactment was made, to make human blood non-kosher.
As the piece I quoted above shows, it's the same sort of prohibition,
for the same reason, as that on fish blood.
>If the blood, or bits with blood in, are easily seperable, mixing
>them in more is a clear violation of the law, and I believe that the whole
>thing is then considered non-kosher.
I think I agree with this. As I said, the mixture must be accidental.
> And while I'm pretty sure that you're right about it requiring a
>majority of blood to make a mixture non-kosher, it may be that it is one
>of those one part in sixty things;
See the note on para 10 above; any mixture is sufficient to permit it.
It's a general rule, however, that when a substance is described as
`permitted in a mixture', that doesn't apply if it's more than 50% of
the mixture, as then it's not considered to be `in' a mixture, but
rather it's the other stuff that's mixed into it. Another example of
something that's `permitted in a mixture', meaning any mixture in which
it constitutes less than 50%, is those legumes and other plants that
are forbidden to Ashkenazim on Passover; for instance, corn oil can
be used for the festival lights on the Seder table, and if some of
the oil gets into the food, that's OK (note on Shulchan Aruch OC 453:1).
> for those that are troubled by
>questions of this sort, asking a legitimate authority is probably a better
>course than listening to some yahoos on Usenet.
Good advice on any question that one considers important. All Knowledge
Is Contained On The Net, but Sturgeon's Law applies as well.
>> >And besides, even if it were, you couldn't put sour cream on the
>> >latkes, could you?
>> Well, yes, you could, actually.
> There is that "if" there. If human flesh were kosher, then if you
>got a sufficient quantity of blood into your latkes, no sour cream would
>be permitted. Being as it's not, the milk and meat thing doesn't matter,
>as that only applies to kosher meat.
Well, no, I don't agree with this analysis. If human blood were kosher,
it would be because it doesn't come from the sort of animals whose blood
is considered forbidden, and therefore it doesn't count as `blood'. For
exactly the same reason, it wouldn't count as `meat' for the purpose of
being forbidden with milk.
Zev Sero
>On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Zev Sero wrote:
>> This prohibition doesn't extend to food
>> in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
>> blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
>> food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
>> eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
>I asked a knowledgeable friend, and he said that you would only be
>permitted to eat this mixture if the blood was less than 1/60th of it, AND
>the blood could not be tasted. (If you want the references in the Gemara
>and Shulchan Aruch, email me.)
Ask your friend to look at the note on Shulchan Aruch CM 66:10.
Zev Sero
> zs...@bigfoot.com (Zev Sero) writes:
>>This prohibition doesn't extend to food
>>in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
>>blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
>>food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
>>eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
>It's not that big an assumption. I might want to, for instance.
Human blood? Really?
Doug Wickstrom
modulated the bit stream to say:
>On 20 Dec 1998 17:26:58 GMT, ulr...@aol.com (Ulrika) wrote:
>> zs...@bigfoot.com (Zev Sero) writes:
>
>>>This prohibition doesn't extend to food
>>>in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
>>>blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
>>>food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
>>>eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
>
>>It's not that big an assumption. I might want to, for instance.
>
>Human blood? Really?
See what happens when Luther's heresies get translated into English?
Alter S. Reiss
> On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, "Alter S. Reiss" <asr...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
> >On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Zev Sero wrote:
>
> >> inherently count as blood for the purpose of the Biblical prohibition,
> >> but it's forbidden by Rabbinic law because it could be confused with
> >> animal and poultry blood.
>
> > I have no idea what you are talking about here.
>
> See Shulchan Aruch (the most authoritative code of Jewish law),
> CM 66:9-10
That's what I get for cheating; I stopped with Maimonidies,
because it was late, I was tired, and couldn't find anything in the
SA. It should be noted that there are those that there are those that
practice on the rulings of Maimonidies, rather than the SA. It also
should be noted that there are those that disagree with the SA on matters
of logic, even if they agree with him on a psak level.
>
> 9. Fish blood, even though it is [ZS: inherently] permitted, if it
> was gathered in a container it's forbidden, because of giving the
> wrong appearance. Therefore, if it's obvious that it's from fish,
> e.g. there are scales floating in it, then it's permitted.
This is slightly different from what you said.
> 10. Human blood, if it has separated from the person, is forbidden
> because of giving the wrong appearance. Therefore, if one bit a
> loaf with ones teeth, and blood came out of ones teeth onto the
> loaf, then one must scrape it off, but that which remains between
> the teeth may be sucked. (Note: All fish and human blood, since
> it's permitted by the underlying law, doesn't make a mixture
> containing it forbidden.)
While this appears to be the same as the above, actually isn't.
For one thing, if you have a cup of human blood, even if you have bits of
human flesh floating about in it, it probably would be prohibited; while
the logic behind the enactment is the same, the nature of the enactment is
different.
>
> Note especially the note on para 10, which explicitly equates fish and
> human blood.
The example with the loaf (taken from Maimonidies, it should be
noted) is rather instructive. Even if you assume that the two enactments
are the same, it gives a fairly straightfoward procedure for when you
accidentally bleed into your food; you have to cut out the bit with blood
in it.
Now, in that loaf, there is more bread than blood. In all
probability, the area of the loaf which has to be scraped off has more
bread than blood in it. However, because of the differing natures of the
enactments, I wouldn't think that this is true of fish blood.
Mixtures in which one portion is wet and one portion is dry
usually work that way; if you spill milk on meat, you have to cut out the
bit which came into contact, and you can use the rest (if you let it sit
for a while, that's another story, of course). This applies even when the
mixture would permitted by a majority of kosher stuff.
Now, the thing is, fish blood is kosher, but cannot be eaten
because of creating a bad impression; it's not tha the rabbis made an
enactment against eating fish blood, they made an enactment against eating
fish blood in such a manner that it looks like you're drinking blood.
The enactment against drinking human blood looks to have been made in such
a manner that any consumption of human blood, in a flagrant or
non-flagrant manner is prohibited. Most authorities will say that licking
dried blood next to a cut is prohibited; that's obviously not pig's blood,
there.
While I'm not the sort of person to answer these questions, I
would say that if you cut yourself making latkes, the thing to do would be
to discard the bits which have obviously been stained by blood, and go on.
If you poured fish blood into it, that's a different story; there, you'd
probably just have to mix it in, so it isn't a flagrant consumption of
fish blood.
> > Fish blood from kosher fishes is considered honest to goodness kosher
>
> Not if it's in a bowl on its own.
That's not right. It is kosher, you just can't consume it because
of giving a bad impression. If you put some scales in the bowl, then you
can drink it. Thinds which aren't kosher can't generally be made kosher.
> >However, a rabbinic enactment was made, to make human blood non-kosher.
>
> As the piece I quoted above shows, it's the same sort of prohibition,
> for the same reason, as that on fish blood.
It's similar, but not the same.
>
> >If the blood, or bits with blood in, are easily seperable, mixing
> >them in more is a clear violation of the law, and I believe that the whole
> >thing is then considered non-kosher.
>
> I think I agree with this. As I said, the mixture must be accidental.
>
>
> > And while I'm pretty sure that you're right about it requiring a
> >majority of blood to make a mixture non-kosher, it may be that it is one
> >of those one part in sixty things;
>
> See the note on para 10 above; any mixture is sufficient to permit it.
> It's a general rule, however, that when a substance is described as
> `permitted in a mixture', that doesn't apply if it's more than 50% of
> the mixture, as then it's not considered to be `in' a mixture, but
> rather it's the other stuff that's mixed into it. Another example of
> something that's `permitted in a mixture', meaning any mixture in which
> it constitutes less than 50%, is those legumes and other plants that
> are forbidden to Ashkenazim on Passover; for instance, corn oil can
> be used for the festival lights on the Seder table, and if some of
> the oil gets into the food, that's OK (note on Shulchan Aruch OC 453:1).
Like I said, I was pretty sure that you were right about it being
a majority thing. But note, that it wasn't the SA who said that it was a
Rov thing; that was the person who wrote the notes, the Ramah; while
Askenazim generally rely on the Ramah, Sfardim don't. (I personally
happen to be an Ashkenazik Jew; I have no idea who's reading this,
though.)
> > for those that are troubled by
> >questions of this sort, asking a legitimate authority is probably a better
> >course than listening to some yahoos on Usenet.
>
> Good advice on any question that one considers important. All Knowledge
> Is Contained On The Net, but Sturgeon's Law applies as well.
Yes. I just wanted to keep myself covered from the whole "Leading
others astray" thing.
>
> >> >And besides, even if it were, you couldn't put sour cream on the
> >> >latkes, could you?
>
> >> Well, yes, you could, actually.
>
> > There is that "if" there. If human flesh were kosher, then if you
> >got a sufficient quantity of blood into your latkes, no sour cream would
> >be permitted. Being as it's not, the milk and meat thing doesn't matter,
> >as that only applies to kosher meat.
>
> Well, no, I don't agree with this analysis. If human blood were kosher,
> it would be because it doesn't come from the sort of animals whose blood
> is considered forbidden, and therefore it doesn't count as `blood'. For
> exactly the same reason, it wouldn't count as `meat' for the purpose of
> being forbidden with milk.
Well, it's a hypothetical; even though my version is what some
might call wrong, one could come up with versions in which it is right.
(postulate a verse: "But thou shalt eat of the blood of man, for it is
like unto the flesh of the beasts of the field, or of the pasture, for
eating.")
Cally Soukup
> Now, the thing is, fish blood is kosher, but cannot be eaten
> because of creating a bad impression; it's not tha the rabbis made an
> enactment against eating fish blood, they made an enactment against eating
> fish blood in such a manner that it looks like you're drinking blood.
Does this mean that it's possible to make a kosher black pudding, as
long as its principal ingrediant is (a permitted) fish blood? As I
understand black pudding it does not give the appearance of blood,
though its main ingrediant is blood.
(Personally, I find the concept of black pudding repulsive, but then
I used to think the idea of sushi was repulsive too, and now I'm
addicted <grin>.)
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Bob Webber
: On 20 Dec 1998 17:26:58 GMT, ulr...@aol.com (Ulrika) wrote:
: > zs...@bigfoot.com (Zev Sero) writes:
: >>This prohibition doesn't extend to food
: >>in which human blood has accidentally been mixed (of course, if the
: >>blood constitutes more than 50% of the mixture, then it's no longer
: >>food with some blood in, it's blood with some food in, and it can't be
: >>eaten, even assuming that someone would want to.
: >It's not that big an assumption. I might want to, for instance.
: Human blood? Really?
Might depend upon the identity of the source it was bled from.
Avram Grumer
> Does this mean that it's possible to make a kosher black pudding,
> as long as its principal ingrediant is (a permitted) fish blood?
According to my copy of _The Monster Manual_, black puddings crawl along
on the floor, but can also scamper along walls and ceilings. This makes
them either land animals (without hooves, therefore not kosher), or things
that crawl about on all fours (not beetles, locusts, or grasshoppers, and
therefore not kosher).
I like the idea of an RPG in which each monster is rated, along with its
various magical abilities and combat values, as to whether it's kosher.
Though I think killing them in combat would disqualify them.
--
Avram Grumer | av...@bigfoot.com | http://www.bigfoot.com/~avram/
If music be the food of love, then some of it be the Twinkies of
dysfunctional relationships.
Julie Stampnitzky
> >Karen E Cooper <keco...@garnet.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
> >>
> [19th century baking]
> >>recommends using "pearlash" to make
> >>things rise. Had to look that one up. It's "potassium carbonate" and
> >>sesm to have been used in places where we now use baking soda. Anybody
> >>know more than that?
>
> >That particular one is new to me, though even older than that is
> >"hartshorn," ammonium carbonate, which used really to be made of
> >ground-up antlers. It breaks down into ammonia and carbon
> >dioxide under quite a low oven, 200 Fahrenheit or thereabouts. I
> >used to have a cookie recipe that used it.
Speaking of which, in L. M. Montgomery's _The Golden Road_, one of the
characters makes "rusks" (biscuits?) and by mistake puts tooth powder in
them instead of baking powder. (Someone left the tooth powder in the
baking powder container- sound familiar?) The rusks turn out just fine
though. So I was wondering what the "tooth powder" would have been. Was it
in fact baking soda, which is the major ingredient in my toothpaste? Did
the author have reason to know it would be a good substitute for baking
powder?
Alter S. Reiss
> Alter S. Reiss <asr...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Now, the thing is, fish blood is kosher, but cannot be eaten
> > because of creating a bad impression; it's not tha the rabbis made an
> > enactment against eating fish blood, they made an enactment against eating
> > fish blood in such a manner that it looks like you're drinking blood.
>
> understand black pudding it does not give the appearance of blood,
Well, assuming that people wouldn't look at it and say something
like, "oh, that's black pudding -- if you're eating that, it must mean
that blood is kosher", then I would probably say that it is okay, and Zev
would probably say that it isn't. Being as I'm not a religious authority
of any sort, and being as I don't think that Zev is, this probably ought
not be viewed as anything like an answer to that question.