AKICIF: Literary agents
Marty Helgesen
reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
a book and doubted that it existed because I couldn't imagine the market
for it. I looked at Literary Market Place, but, as I expected, it
just listed agents, without identifying their clients. Is there such
a book /a/n/d /i/f /s/o/, /w/h/y? I ask entirely out of idle curiosity.
I have no idea who the caller was, so I couldn't tell her even if someone
identifies it. (I know she was calling from an on-campus phone because
the phones ring with different sounds depending on whether the call is
from on- or off-campus.)
-------
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm Internet: mn...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
"Our scene opens on a police tram steaming through the South China Sea."
Help outlaw spam. For further information see http://www.cauce.org/
Dorothy J Heydt
Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
There is neither such a book nor such a website, for a moderately
obvious reason: it would violate confidentiality.
In most cases who is represented by whom is no big secret, but it
still doesn't get listed in public.
(Besides, a book of that kind would get obsolete awfully quickly.)
A lightning-quick look at www.sfwa.org doesn't mention anything
in particular about agents, but there might be something down in
the sub-pages somewhere. There's undoubtedly good advice on how
to choose one and how to avoid the creeps.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
P Nielsen Hayden
Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
>a book and doubted that it existed because I couldn't imagine the market
>for it. I looked at Literary Market Place, but, as I expected, it
>just listed agents, without identifying their clients. Is there such
>a book /a/n/d /i/f /s/o/, /w/h/y? I ask entirely out of idle curiosity.
>I have no idea who the caller was, so I couldn't tell her even if someone
>identifies it. (I know she was calling from an on-campus phone because
>the phones ring with different sounds depending on whether the call is
>from on- or off-campus.)
I've never heard of such a reference book. If you want to know who
represents an author, ask that author. If you want to know who an
agent represents, ask the agent. Neither party generally has much
interest in concealing this information.
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
P Nielsen Hayden
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <00356.15...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
>Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
>>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
>>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
>>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
>>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
>>a book ...
>
>There is neither such a book nor such a website, for a moderately
>obvious reason: it would violate confidentiality.
Whose confidentiality?
In my experience, "confidentiality" is most often cited by scam
artists posing as real literary agents, as an excuse for not providing
a client list.
It sounds plausible, but think about it: what on earth is the use of a
_secret_ author-agent relationship?
No, I'm not asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
>In most cases who is represented by whom is no big secret, but it
>still doesn't get listed in public.
Author-agent relationships are mentioned _all the time_ in public. In
PUBLISHERS WEEKLY, in LOCUS, in all kinds of industry journals.
>(Besides, a book of that kind would get obsolete awfully quickly.)
That's a good reason such a book would have limitations on its
usefulness. But the idea that author-agent relationships are a big
secret is just silly. If your agent's relationship to you is a
secret, you need a new agent.
Eric Mayer
>
>I've never heard of such a reference book. If you want to know who
>represents an author, ask that author. If you want to know who an
>agent represents, ask the agent. Neither party generally has much
>interest in concealing this information.
>
I've never heard of such a book either but I must say I'm amazed that
Writer's Digest doesn't have such a thing -- years ago a section of
one of their publications listed a bunch of so-called agents. I
suspect legitimate agents tend to be overwhelmed by prospective
clients and don't even want that kind of publicity. I only mention
this because the idea of a book like that reminds me of the sad
thought I often have -- that there seems to be more money to be made
ripping off would-be writers than there is in actually writing.
--
Eric Mayer
Web Site: <http://home.epix.net/~maywrite>
"The map is not the territory." -- Alfred Korzybski
Rob Wynne
> I only mention
>this because the idea of a book like that reminds me of the sad
>thought I often have -- that there seems to be more money to be made
>ripping off would-be writers than there is in actually writing.
There's an Agents FAQ maintained by the Horror Writers Association:
http://www.horror.org/agents.htm
Rob
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
The best original science-fiction and fantasy on the web:
Aphelion Webzine: http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Gafilk 2001: Jan 5-7, 2001, Atlanta, GA -- http://www.gafilk.org
Here among the madness, don't forget it's all for dragons and stars.
--Maureen O'Brien
Irv Koch
<snip>
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >In article <00356.15...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
> >Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
> >>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
> >>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
> >>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
> >>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
> >>a book ...
<snip lots of stuff I highly agree with, well put>
> No, I'm not asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
> tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
>
> >In most cases who is represented by whom is no big secret, but it
> >still doesn't get listed in public.
<snip more stuff in which Patrick debunks the above>
<goes to file cabinet>
If someone else already posted the following, I'll blame it on
Earthling/Mindspring/Sprintmail's "missing message" problem. In the
front of the "2000 SFWA DIRECTORY" it states "SFWA distributes the SFWA
Directory to members. ... Those with a professional interest in science
fiction or fantasy (editor, agents, and so forth) may obtain copies for
$60 US from the executive director. ..."
The Directory ALWAYS has a special section on who is represented by whom
and a cross index. I suspect there ARE other sources of "who is
represented by whom" and there are MANY MANY good reasons for such being
compiled.
There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
Knowing such stuff is quite important when one has any thought of doing
an anthology or buying some obscure rights to some obscure story by a
little known author.
Irv Koch
>
> A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
> reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
> caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
> who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
> a book and doubted that it existed because I couldn't imagine the market
> for it. I looked at Literary Market Place, but, as I expected, it
> just listed agents, without identifying their clients. Is there such
> a book /a/n/d /i/f /s/o/, /w/h/y? I ask entirely out of idle curiosity.
Some reasons such a reference source is handy:
(1) OUTSIDE Sf&f, specifically for some big name Mystery writers, you
have to go to the agent to ask them to be a guest at a con. Been there,
done that. MUCH rather be able to look the author and their agent up in
a Sisters In Crime semi-annual publication.
(2) Would be editors about to do an anthology and they don't even know
how to contact the author. Can't just write c/o their last publisher
either as said "last publisher" is NOT on good terms with <take your
pick>.
(3) Variants of item 2 for specialized rights (e.g. games), dead
authors, etc.
(4) Variants of item 1 for speakers at college or other events (e.g.,
keynote speakers at the monthly meeting of the Society For Whateveritis
in Omaha, NB, and they haven't a clue where the out-of-print but
of-interest-to-them author lives). Granted that finding the agent may
not be the best way to go.
(5) Someone is looking for an agent and isn't in sf fandom or a related
field. They want to know what agents specialize in representing writers
of Northwestern Regional Fiction (or some such) ... or nonfiction about
plumbing.
P Nielsen Hayden
Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
>long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
>similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
<strangled sound>
gfa...@savvy.com
> A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
> reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
> caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
> who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
> a book and doubted that it existed because I couldn't imagine the market
> for it. I looked at Literary Market Place, but, as I expected, it
> just listed agents, without identifying their clients. Is there such
> a book /a/n/d /i/f /s/o/, /w/h/y? I ask entirely out of idle curiosity.
> I have no idea who the caller was, so I couldn't tell her even if someone
> identifies it. (I know she was calling from an on-campus phone because
> the phones ring with different sounds depending on whether the call is
> from on- or off-campus.)
The SFWA Directory lists clients of agents, last I looked, but it's not a
"book."
--
Gary Farber New York
gfa...@savvy.com
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
wrote:
>On 21 Dec 2000 21:46:13 GMT, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden) wrote:
>>
>>I've never heard of such a reference book. If you want to know who
>>represents an author, ask that author. If you want to know who an
>>agent represents, ask the agent. Neither party generally has much
>>interest in concealing this information.
>>
> I've never heard of such a book either but I must say I'm amazed that
>Writer's Digest doesn't have such a thing
http://www.writersdigest.com/ probably has their Guide to Literary
Agents for sale there. I don't know whether it's cross-referenced with
writers.
>I only mention
>this because the idea of a book like that reminds me of the sad
>thought I often have -- that there seems to be more money to be made
>ripping off would-be writers than there is in actually writing.
http://www.sfwa.org/ -> Writers Beware and Editors&Preditors.
Association of Authors' Representatives, http://wwwbookwire.com/AAR/
has general info about agents. Writer's Digest site probably has
something, too. They had a feature on writer-agent relationship in
their July 1999 issue.
vlatko
--
_Neither Fish Nor Fowl_
http://www.webart.hr/~jkv/eng/index.htm
Interviews: Jo Walton, David Langford, Ken Macleod
vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr
P Nielsen Hayden
It's also technically not supposed to be distributed to non-members --
a lot of the personal-address and phone-number info in there is
arguably more legitimately "confidential" than public relationships
between authors and agents are. Not that this is widely respected;
SFWA directories get handed around anyway.
Irv Koch
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 03:50:33 GMT,
> Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
> >There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
> >long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
> >similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
>
> <strangled sound>
Oh my. </humor on> Patrick at a loss for words and using
quasi-emoticons. <while I laugh myself silly> I can think of any number
of reasons, and am, after all, only reporting the facts, so the poor
librarian can get some idea of the situation.
Who better to represent dead authors than a person so close to the
grave.
</humor off>
Of course outside SF&F, it's not that easy to find information when it's
needed. And, as far as the SFWA Directory goes, many authors shift to
PO Boxes and don't give sensitive phone numbers, if they have problems.
Patrick Connors
: It sounds plausible, but think about it: what on earth is the use of a
: _secret_ author-agent relationship?
: No, I'm not asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
: tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
Phooey. You're no fun.
And I feel obligated as a punster to point out that Ian Fleming
obviously had an author-secret agent relationship with James Bond.
--
Patrick Connors |
| Smile! The fresh air's good for your teeth.
| -- Jack Bogut, KDKA Radio, 1970s
|
Patrick Connors
: Whose confidentiality?
A book would have limitations on its usefulness just due to the
publishing cycle, of course. But I'm surprised such a website doesn't
exist already - it would be relatively easy to implement. Perhaps
there's no money in it. H'mmm...
Joel Rosenberg
Last I heard, the Directory was officially for sale for $25 to anybody
who could persuade the SFWA Secretary that they had a legitimate
reason for having it. During the Pautz secretaryship, I suspect that
few, if any, copies were bought; the secretary apparently had more
pressing matters to deal with than handling routine mail.
gfa...@savvy.com
> P Nielsen Hayden wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 03:50:33 GMT,
>> Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>> >There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
>> >long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
>> >similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
>>
>> <strangled sound>
> Oh my. </humor on> Patrick at a loss for words and using
> quasi-emoticons. <while I laugh myself silly> I can think of any number
> of reasons, and am, after all, only reporting the facts, so the poor
> librarian can get some idea of the situation.
I wasn't aware that "words" were "quasi-emoticons."
More to the point, Forry is not universally known as a hero amongst those
who have had professional acquaintanceship with his dealings. Though it's
possible that one might note that his interest in ghouls has often been
admiring, and beneficial, in more than one way.
[. . . .]
Marty Helgesen
<SNIP>
>Some reasons such a reference source is handy:
>(1) OUTSIDE Sf&f, specifically for some big name Mystery writers, you
>have to go to the agent to ask them to be a guest at a con. Been there,
>done that. MUCH rather be able to look the author and their agent up in
>a Sisters In Crime semi-annual publication.
>(2) Would be editors about to do an anthology and they don't even know
>how to contact the author. Can't just write c/o their last publisher
>either as said "last publisher" is NOT on good terms with <take your
>pick>.
>(3) Variants of item 2 for specialized rights (e.g. games), dead
>authors, etc.
>(4) Variants of item 1 for speakers at college or other events (e.g.,
>keynote speakers at the monthly meeting of the Society For Whateveritis
>in Omaha, NB, and they haven't a clue where the out-of-print but
>of-interest-to-them author lives). Granted that finding the agent may
>not be the best way to go.
>
>(5) Someone is looking for an agent and isn't in sf fandom or a related
>field. They want to know what agents specialize in representing writers
>of Northwestern Regional Fiction (or some such) ... or nonfiction about
>plumbing.
some people. One question is whether there are enough people who
would want to use it to provide an adequate market for it, either
directly or through libraries that would think it would be useful
for their patrons. As someone else suggested, a web site might be
more feasible, but a web site still would involve a lot of work.
Ed Dravecky III
> P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> : It sounds plausible, but think about it: what on earth is the
> : asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
> : tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
>
> Phooey. You're no fun.
> And I feel obligated as a punster to point out that Ian Fleming
> obviously had an author-secret agent relationship with James Bond.
Bad Patrick! I'm giving you a number and taking away your name.
--
Ed Dravecky III
(ed3 at panix.com)
gfa...@savvy.com
> In article <00356.15...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
> Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
>>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
>>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
>>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
>>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
>>a book ...
> There is neither such a book nor such a website, for a moderately
> obvious reason: it would violate confidentiality.
Um, what?
I don't think I've ever encountered a writer who wouldn't say who their
agent is, or a legitimate agent who wouldn't list their clients. Um,
respectfully, what are you talking about, Dorothy?
> In most cases who is represented by whom is no big secret, but it
> still doesn't get listed in public.
> (Besides, a book of that kind would get obsolete awfully quickly.)
Well, mostly folks keep their agent for a few years, actually. It's no less
frequent a turnover in topic than that for *many* books.
> A lightning-quick look at www.sfwa.org doesn't mention anything
> in particular about agents, but there might be something down in
> the sub-pages somewhere. There's undoubtedly good advice on how
> to choose one and how to avoid the creeps.
And there's the Directory, which probably has a couple of thousand bootleg
photocopies.
Joel Rosenberg
> In article <G5xt6...@kithrup.com> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> > In article <00356.15...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
> > Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
> >>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
> >>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
> >>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
> >>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
> >>a book ...
>
> > There is neither such a book nor such a website, for a moderately
> > obvious reason: it would violate confidentiality.
>
> Um, what?
>
> I don't think I've ever encountered a writer who wouldn't say who their
> agent is, or a legitimate agent who wouldn't list their clients. Um,
> respectfully, what are you talking about, Dorothy?
>
I know of at least two agents who, at some point, would not have wanted
a list of his and/or her clients a matter of public record, as the list
was shrinking fairly dramatically, fairly quickly.
Other than that sort of thing, I can't think of an example.
P Nielsen Hayden
Okay, fair point. However, this is not an argument for the assertion
that "confidentiality" is an "obvious" reason for most authors and
agents to be opposed to people knowing who is whose agent.
That it's _public_ is part of the essence of the author-agent
relationship; it provides the author with someone separate to whom
business dealings can be referred, and thus creates for the author a
zone of privacy around their everyday life.
Joel Rosenberg
Sure.
That said, I've heard -- over and over again -- that in Hollywood, who
one's agent is something that many (most? I dunno) writers don't want
bruited about. I've heard explanations as to why, but they made so
little sense that I can't remember them.
Hollywood is, IMHO, on another planet, and they don't speak Earth.
Erik V. Olson
Can we give him a 67 Telecaster Standard and a 69 Fender Deluxe Reverb Amp,
so he can play his own theme song as well?
--
Erik V. Olson: er...@mo.net : http://walden.mo.net/~eriko/
Erik V. Olson
>
>That it's _public_ is part of the essence of the author-agent
>relationship; it provides the author with someone separate to whom
>business dealings can be referred, and thus creates for the author a
>zone of privacy around their everyday life.
>
I'd never thought of that. I thought authors, like athletes, had agents
because knowing how to write (or hit a curveball) doesn't mean you know how
to negotiate contracts or find markets.
Joel Rosenberg
> On 23 Dec 2000 16:27:04 GMT, P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> >That it's _public_ is part of the essence of the author-agent
> >relationship; it provides the author with someone separate to whom
> >business dealings can be referred, and thus creates for the author a
> >zone of privacy around their everyday life.
> >
>
> I'd never thought of that. I thought authors, like athletes, had agents
> because knowing how to write (or hit a curveball) doesn't mean you know how
> to negotiate contracts or find markets.
>
Many people do things for multiple reasons. Having had a good
relationship with just about every editor I've had, I attribute part
of it to leaving the fighting over the size of the pie stuff to
another party.
P Nielsen Hayden
Erik V. Olson <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote:
>On 23 Dec 2000 16:27:04 GMT, P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>That it's _public_ is part of the essence of the author-agent
>>relationship; it provides the author with someone separate to whom
>>business dealings can be referred, and thus creates for the author a
>>zone of privacy around their everyday life.
>>
>
>I'd never thought of that. I thought authors, like athletes, had agents
>because knowing how to write (or hit a curveball) doesn't mean you know how
>to negotiate contracts or find markets.
Of course. That's why I said "part of the essence."
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
writes:
>
>That said, I've heard -- over and over again -- that in Hollywood, who
>one's agent is something that many (most? I dunno) writers don't want
>bruited about. I've heard explanations as to why, but they made so
>little sense that I can't remember them.
>
>Hollywood is, IMHO, on another planet, and they don't speak Earth.
I've never heard this. I don't claim any special knowledge about this -
my time in the movie/tv industry was spent in computer programming, and
I dealt with finance people, not writers - but it really doesn't make
any sense.
(With the tendency of agents to move into packaging - CAA puts together a
script and stars and a director and shops the project to studios - it
became very important who your agent was, since you were likelier to get in
a package, and get your script sold, if your agent was one of the
packagers. There was a big public kerfuffle when Joe Eszterhas left CAA;
Mike Ovitz got really mad at him.)
-- Alan
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WIN...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210
===============================================================================
Joel Rosenberg
> In article <wk1yuzj...@winternet.com>, Joel Rosenberg <jo...@winternet.com>
> writes:
>
> >
> >That said, I've heard -- over and over again -- that in Hollywood, who
> >one's agent is something that many (most? I dunno) writers don't want
> >bruited about. I've heard explanations as to why, but they made so
> >little sense that I can't remember them.
> >
> >Hollywood is, IMHO, on another planet, and they don't speak Earth.
>
> I've never heard this. I don't claim any special knowledge about this -
> my time in the movie/tv industry was spent in computer programming, and
> I dealt with finance people, not writers - but it really doesn't make
> any sense.
I agree that it doesn't make sense, but I've had the experience when
talking with at least half a dozen (relatively small-time, in terms of
commercial success, if not necessarily talent) H'wood writers.
Kip Williams
> I wasn't aware that "words" were "quasi-emoticons."
An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
--
--Kip (Williams)
amusing the world at http://members.home.net/kipw/
Ray Radlein
>
> That's a good reason such a book would have limitations on its
> usefulness. But the idea that author-agent relationships are a
> big secret is just silly. If your agent's relationship to you
> is a secret, you need a new agent.
Maybe she likes having a Secret Agent Man.
- Ray R.
--
**********************************************************************
"Monday, May 7. The weather was warm. I was working the day watch
out of Robbery-Homicide with my partner, Frank Gannon. The Boss
had just complimented me, and my nipples crinkled with delight."
-- Robert A. Heinlein's "Dragnet"
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
**********************************************************************
Bob Webber
> > I wasn't aware that "words" were "quasi-emoticons."
> An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
:-) when you say that, podnuh!
--
Corflu 18 -- The Original Fanzine Fans' Convention -- Boston, Massachusetts
30 March to 1 April 2001 -- <http://world.std.com/~webber/Corflu18>
Patrick Connors
Patrick Connors
Sure, if you want to. But if I have to play it -soon-, there's a too-large
number of mandolins of varying shapes, sizes and tunings in the next room.
Loren MacGregor
>
> Ed Dravecky III <e...@panix.com> wrote:
> : Patrick Connors <p...@primenet.com> wrote:
> : > P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> : > : It sounds plausible, but think about it: what on earth is the
> : > : _use of a secret_ author-agent relationship? No, I'm not
> : > : asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
> : > : tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
> : >
> : > Phooey. You're no fun.
> : > And I feel obligated as a punster to point out that Ian Fleming
> : > obviously had an author-secret agent relationship with James Bond.
>
> : Bad Patrick! I'm giving you a number and taking away your name.
>
> I get a new number the 26th. Forty.
Infink.
-- LJM
T Nielsen Hayden
> Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
>>There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
>>long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
>>similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
>
>
><strangled sound>
Funny, I made exactly the same noise when I read that. Wish I'd been reading
this thread earlier.
-tnh
T Nielsen Hayden
Eric Mayer <emay...@epix.net> wrote:
>On 21 Dec 2000 21:46:13 GMT, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden) wrote:
>
>>I've never heard of such a reference book. If you want to know who
>>represents an author, ask that author. If you want to know who an agent
>>represents, ask the agent. Neither party generally has much interest in
>>concealing this information.
>>
> I've never heard of such a book either but I must say I'm amazed that
>Writer's Digest doesn't have such a thing -- years ago a section of one of
>their publications listed a bunch of so-called agents.
That's an accurate description of many of the entrepreneurs who advertise
their services in Writer's Digest.
>I suspect legitimate agents tend to be overwhelmed by prospective clients
>and don't even want that kind of publicity. I only mention this because
>the idea of a book like that reminds me of the sad thought I often have --
>that there seems to be more money to be made ripping off would-be writers
>than there is in actually writing.
For many people that is quite true. Moreover, the Internet and the Web have
provided a perfect environment for the proliferation of literary scammers. I
know a fair amount about this because I sometimes run with an informal group
of SFWA scamhunters. The best single information source I know of on matters
like getting an agent, avoiding ripoffs, manuscript submission formats, etc.
etc. etc., is the SFWA website at <http://www.sfwa.org/>. One of its most
useful features is its link to the "Writer Beware" website, run by the very
excellent Victoria Strauss. Writers could do far worse than to go there and
read =everything=.
By the way, when we're scamhunting, we pretty much take it as =prima facie=
evidence that we're dealing with a scammer if an agent claims his or her
client list is confidential. Acting as an author's public representative is
one of the core functions of agenting. It's possible to be the agent for a
pseudonymous author, but you're still the public representative of that
pseudonym. There's neither reason nor excuse for an agent to keep their
client list secret. Real agents will give you their list at the drop of a
hat.
I've explained this one online before. Let me see if I can remember my
standard examples for why confidential agent relationships are an absurd
concept:
"You want to make a movie from a novel we published? Great! Sorry, I can't
tell you who the author's agent is -- that's confidential."
"Hiya, I'm Stephen King's new agent. I know, you thought it was Ralph
Vicinanza. It's me now. No, I can't show you an agenting agreement -- that's
confidential. Now, about those checks that'll be coming to me ..."
"Tell Sylvia down in Accounting that I'm sorry she can't mail out royalty
checks, but I can't give her names or addresses for those agents -- it's
confidential information."
I trust you can see the problem. And by the way, and apropos of =absolutely
nothing= that's been said in this thread, there's no such thing as a
"default agent" for old authors.
-tnh
Mitch Wagner
<slrn94lp2...@panix2.panix.com>:
Sounds to me like there's a story here.
--
Mitch Wagner
Mitch Wagner
>By the way, when we're scamhunting, we pretty much take it as =prima
>facie= evidence that we're dealing with a scammer if an agent claims his
>or her client list is confidential.
I'm told that you can also take it as pretty much prima facie evidence of a
scam if someone demands money FROM the writer. Money flows only one way, TO
the writer. Not very much, and not very often for most writers, but that's
the way it flows.
>"Tell Sylvia down in Accounting that I'm sorry she can't mail out
>royalty checks, but I can't give her names or addresses for those agents
>-- it's confidential information."
>
Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
>I trust you can see the problem. And by the way, and apropos of
>=absolutely nothing= that's been said in this thread, there's no such
>thing as a "default agent" for old authors.
Sounds like there's a story there.
--
Mitch Wagner
James Nicoll
Mitch Wagner <mit...@sff.net> wrote:
>t...@panix.com (T Nielsen Hayden) wrote in
><slrn94lrn...@panix2.panix.com>:
>
>>By the way, when we're scamhunting, we pretty much take it as =prima
>>facie= evidence that we're dealing with a scammer if an agent claims his
>>or her client list is confidential.
>
>I'm told that you can also take it as pretty much prima facie evidence of a
>scam if someone demands money FROM the writer. Money flows only one way, TO
>the writer. Not very much, and not very often for most writers, but that's
>the way it flows.
>
>>"Tell Sylvia down in Accounting that I'm sorry she can't mail out
>>royalty checks, but I can't give her names or addresses for those agents
>>-- it's confidential information."
>>
>
>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
>there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
>
how old she is, I think.
Marcus L. Rowland
<t...@panix.com> writes
>
>I trust you can see the problem. And by the way, and apropos of =absolutely
>nothing= that's been said in this thread, there's no such thing as a
>"default agent" for old authors.
I wish there was...
The stuff I use is generally just out of copyright, and in a couple of
cases I've run into problems where I couldn't determine categorically
that the author was safely 70 years dead, or where stuff went back into
copyright when European copyright changed from 50 to 70 years. It'd be
great if I could contact a "default agent" who could check his books and
see if he represented such authors, or put me in touch with the real
copyright holder if such exists.
Artists too - for example, my next project is going to be based on E.
Nesbit's fantasy, and while she is safely out of copyright, her artist
isn't. His name was H.R. Millar, he illustrated most of the children's
fiction published in the Strand Magazine (and I think several others)
over at least 15 years, and his work is absolutely gorgeous. But he died
in 1940, and there seems to be no way to contact his heirs. So I'm
currently scouring dozens of old magazines for illustrations I can adapt
to the "Psammead" novels and several short stories, and there is no way
they'll be anything like as good as his work...
--
Marcus L. Rowland
Forgotten Futures - The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game
http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/ http://www.forgottenfutures.com/
"We are all victims of this slime. They... ...fill our mailboxes with gibberish
that would get them indicted if people had time to press charges"
[Hunter S. Thompson predicts junk e-mail, 1985 (from Generation of Swine)]
Irv Koch
> know a fair amount about this because I sometimes run with an informal group
> of SFWA scamhunters. The best single information source I know of on matters
> like getting an agent, avoiding ripoffs, manuscript submission formats, etc.
> etc. etc., is the SFWA website at <http://www.sfwa.org/>. One of its most
> useful features is its link to the "Writer Beware" website, run by the very
> excellent Victoria Strauss. Writers could do far worse than to go there and
> read =everything=.
(/Humor on) It's starting to look like the scam artists should demand
EXTRA, hazarous duty, pay when attempting to prey on SF&F authors or
their friends. It's like thinking you're going to feed on a swarm of
guppies and they turn out to be pirhana.
Happy hunting. <G>
Irv Koch
Yes, yes ("humor NOT on"). I have been informed, and also seen at least
one post, here, after mine, that explained, accurately, that actually
dealing with ANY such "default" agent, might produce monstrous horror
stories not fit for publication.
Joel Rosenberg
It might. But, while I can't see any possible legal justification for
it, it does seem to serve to get stories into print that would
otherwise likely languish out of print until copyright expired. It's
the sort of small-town type of arrangement that would probably work,
in practice, just fine until somebody feels ripped off, and then have
dramatic repercussions.
(Which, of course, may already have happened without me being aware of
it. I've got okays to use the stories that I want for anthology that
I keep trying to peddle -- "Science Fiction By a Bunch of Guys Named
Dave" -- despite the lack of interest among publishers, who, alas,
don't see the title as a pretty likely ticket onto the Letterman show,
and fairly good cheap publicity.)
Del Cotter
Mitch Wagner <mit...@sff.net> wrote:
>t...@panix.com (T Nielsen Hayden) wrote in
>>P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
>>>>long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
>>>>similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
>>>
>>><strangled sound>
>>
>>Funny, I made exactly the same noise when I read that. Wish I'd been
>>reading this thread earlier.
>
>Sounds to me like there's a story here.
"The Invisible Strangler Is Loose In The Nielsen Hayden's Flat"
--
. . . . Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk . . . .
JustRead:enBaxterSilverhair:KSRobinsonTheGoldCoast:IainMBanksLookToWindward:
ToRead:DorothyDunnettQueen'sPlay:DodieSmithICaptureTheCastle:JackWomackAmbie
Kip Williams
>
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
> Mitch Wagner <mit...@sff.net> wrote:
>
> >t...@panix.com (T Nielsen Hayden) wrote in
> >>P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>>>There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
> >>>>long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
> >>>>similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
> >>>
> >>><strangled sound>
> >>
> >>Funny, I made exactly the same noise when I read that. Wish I'd been
> >>reading this thread earlier.
> >
> >Sounds to me like there's a story here.
>
> "The Invisible Strangler Is Loose In The Nielsen Hayden's Flat"
"Ack!"
"Extry! Acker Man Claims Another Victim!"
Marilee J. Layman
>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
>there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
I have two friends named Sylvia who are in their mid-thirties. Also a
Sylvie, same general age.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc