News flash -- I'm a Bengali!
Karen Lofstrom
Wikipedia, and one of them got so angry he said something like, "A Bengali
living in Hawai'i has no right to say anything about Iran; go back to
writing articles about Hindi movies."
This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. Perhaps because of
my Wikipedia username, Zora? or because I tend to work on Islamic and
Bollywood articles? Anyhoo, I'm just tickled pink to be pegged as such a
cultural chameleon.
I need to buy the right sort of sari, and the proper jewelry for a Bengali
lady of a certain age ...
--
Karen Lofstrom lofs...@lava.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Cthulhu vs. a bunch of Nazis? Oh, I am sure *our* side would win hands
down!" -- Ahasuerus the Wandering Jew
Chris Krolczyk
Karen Lofstrom wrote:
>
> This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. Perhaps
because of
> my Wikipedia username, Zora? or because I tend to work on Islamic and
> Bollywood articles?
That, or someone saw that you were being stalked/pestered
by J** M*h*r*j and ended up Very Confused as a result.
Either way, go figure.
-Chris Krolczyk
Mark Atwood
Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
culture or nationality.
--
Mark Atwood When you do things right, people won't be sure
m...@mark.atwood.name you've done anything at all.
http://mark.atwood.name/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus
Kate Schaefer
news:m23bt3z...@amsu.fallenpegasus.com...
> lofs...@lava.net (Karen Lofstrom) writes:
>>
>> I need to buy the right sort of sari
>
> Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
> culture or nationality.
We all look even better in salwar kameez, and we don't need to learn how to
wrap them to wear them.
That is, I have some of each, and I know which one I'm more likely to have
the sartorial skill to wear out of the house, even though the sari fabrics
are far more impressive.
Dan Goodman
> I'm engaged in a fierce online argument with some Iranian nationalists on
> Wikipedia, and one of them got so angry he said something like, "A Bengali
> living in Hawai'i has no right to say anything about Iran; go back to
> writing articles about Hindi movies."
>
> This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. Perhaps because of
> my Wikipedia username, Zora? or because I tend to work on Islamic and
> Bollywood articles? Anyhoo, I'm just tickled pink to be pegged as such a
> cultural chameleon.
>
> I need to buy the right sort of sari, and the proper jewelry for a Bengali
> lady of a certain age ...
I'm jealous! All I've gotten along those lines is a Canadian in
soc.politics explaining that I'm a typical American who gets all his
opinions from television and knows nothing else about politics. (I don't
own a tv. Three of my grandparents were Marxists, and the fourth an
anarchist.)
--
Dan Goodman
Journal http://www.livejournal.com/users/dsgood/
Decluttering: http://decluttering.blogspot.com
Predictions and Politics http://dsgood.blogspot.com
All political parties die at last of swallowing their own lies.
John Arbuthnot (1667-1735), Scottish writer, physician.
Dorothy J Heydt
I suppose there's nothing to prevent you from buying a sari and
using it as yard goods in the construction of a salwar kameez.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Karen Lofstrom
> I suppose there's nothing to prevent you from buying a sari and
> using it as yard goods in the construction of a salwar kameez.
I've got a cheap cotton sari that I plan to use for *exactly* that purpose
-- I've got my salwar kameez pattern tweaked to perfection. I don't think
I'd want to wear the sari as a sari because the "pallu", the fancy draped
end, is not very nice.
The problem with sewing with sari fabric is that it's usually quite THIN.
A sari is worn over a choli and a petticoat, which do the serious
coverage, and functions basically as the decorative part of the costume.
It's a long, voluminous scarf. I'm going to have to sew my sari-fabric
kameez with a self lining.
I've been drooling over a website in Chennai (Madras),
<http://www.chennaiplaza.com/>, which features thousands of lovely saris.
I don't know what kind of service they offer, or if the saris are indeed
as gorgeous as they seem in the pictures -- if I get a job, maybe I'll be
able to afford to find out.
--
Karen Lofstrom lofs...@lava.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you ever come within a mile of our house, will you stay there all
night?" -- Sir Boyle Roche
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:117g520...@corp.supernews.com:
> I'm engaged in a fierce online argument with some Iranian nationalists
> on Wikipedia, and one of them got so angry he said something like, "A
> Bengali living in Hawai'i has no right to say anything about Iran; go
> back to writing articles about Hindi movies."
>
> This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. Perhaps because
> of my Wikipedia username, Zora? or because I tend to work on Islamic and
> Bollywood articles? Anyhoo, I'm just tickled pink to be pegged as such a
> cultural chameleon.
>
> I need to buy the right sort of sari, and the proper jewelry for a
> Bengali lady of a certain age ...
But.... In Bengal, to move at all, is seldom, if ever, done.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Daniel R. Reitman
wrote:
>I'm engaged in a fierce online argument with some Iranian nationalists on
>Wikipedia, and one of them got so angry he said something like, "A Bengali
>living in Hawai'i has no right to say anything about Iran; go back to
>writing articles about Hindi movies."
>This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. . . .
>. . . .
I know your brother, and, personally, I don't think he got any of the
genes. :-)
Dan, ad nauseam
Ulrika O'Brien
says...
I've seen one vendor on eBay who sometimes sells salwar kamiz cut from
sari fabrics. Yummy. Based in Oregon, of all things.
I've also seen a demonstration of wrapping a sari once, the main trick
seemed to be starting the tucking at the right point near the hip where
the last bit will then be brought up to the shoulder from, once you have
done the full lap around. Although I have vague recollections that
there may be a fiddly thing about when and how one does fold over the
top as well, so, um, never mind. I definitely have enough sartorial
skill to put on the salwar kamiz, and it doesn't leave me fretting about
how unhappy I am with my own midriff.
--Ulrika, who hasn't done her crunches yet tonight...
Ulrika O'Brien
says...
> lofs...@lava.net (Karen Lofstrom) writes:
> >
> > I need to buy the right sort of sari
>
> Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
> culture or nationality.
Being argumentative for politeness sake: Shaq would not look good in a
sari. Orson Welles in later years would not look good in a sari. Roll
your own, kids. Anyone can play.
And, in general, I agree with Kate: salwar kamiz are even better for
looking good on [sufficiently small values of] anyone. I'm thrilled to
pieces with two (of three) I bought bespoke via eBay, and am now having
a devilish time restraining myself from buying more. After all, the two
I have are winter weight. Clearly, I need some in summer weight
fabrics. (I'm guessing it will be harder to successfully lobby for
spring-weight, fall-weight, hey-my-birthday-is-coming-up-weight, and
mid-June-weight outfits, but I'm a stalwart girl, and I shall give it a
go...)
Ulrika, dreaming of the tissue silk ones in the color they're calling
water lily
Lee Ratner
Karen Lofstrom wrote:
> I'm engaged in a fierce online argument with some Iranian
nationalists on
> Wikipedia, and one of them got so angry he said something like, "A
Bengali
> living in Hawai'i has no right to say anything about Iran; go back to
> writing articles about Hindi movies."
Getting into fights with patriots of various stripes seems to a
hobby of yours.
> This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. Perhaps
because of
> my Wikipedia username, Zora? or because I tend to work on Islamic and
> Bollywood articles? Anyhoo, I'm just tickled pink to be pegged as
such a
> cultural chameleon.
>
> I need to buy the right sort of sari, and the proper jewelry for a
Bengali
> lady of a certain age ...
In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
Arabs or Turks at least three times. I Pakistani street vendor I
purchased a muffin from once called me "brother". I never tell these
people that I'm actually a Jew, I fear the consequences.
Daniel Silevitch
> On Wed, 04 May 2005 00:16:00 -0000, Karen Lofstrom wrote:
>
>> I'm engaged in a fierce online argument with some Iranian nationalists on
>> Wikipedia, and one of them got so angry he said something like, "A Bengali
>> living in Hawai'i has no right to say anything about Iran; go back to
>> writing articles about Hindi movies."
>>
>> This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. Perhaps because of
>> my Wikipedia username, Zora? or because I tend to work on Islamic and
>> Bollywood articles? Anyhoo, I'm just tickled pink to be pegged as such a
>> cultural chameleon.
>>
>> I need to buy the right sort of sari, and the proper jewelry for a Bengali
>> lady of a certain age ...
>
> I'm jealous! All I've gotten along those lines is a Canadian in
> soc.politics explaining that I'm a typical American who gets all his
> opinions from television and knows nothing else about politics. (I don't
> own a tv. Three of my grandparents were Marxists, and the fourth an
> anarchist.)
I was once in a debate with someone over nuclear power, and when I said I
thought it was a good idea, he called me a 'propagandizing tool of the
moneyed interests'.
To which I responded that ever since the last check from The Jewish
Conspiracy bounced, I've been a free agent.
-dms
Paul Dormer
LBRa...@gmail.com (Lee Ratner) wrote:
> In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
> Arabs or Turks at least three times. I Pakistani street vendor I
> purchased a muffin from once called me "brother". I never tell these
> people that I'm actually a Jew, I fear the consequences.
Back in 1981, flying back from the Denver Worldcon to get a connection
back to the UK from New York, I got chatting with the woman sitting next
to me. After a while, she asked me what part of France I came from.
This surprised me, as I have London accent. It was only later that I
realised she had been confused by the book I was reading.
Back in the seventies, there were news reports about the French clamping
down of "Franglais", the use of English words in French. The humorist
Miles Kington wrote a spoof column in Franglais, which proved so popular
that it ran for several years, and about four collections were published
in book form. It was one of these books I was reading.
Gordon Dundas
of making a Hotel reservation .They did get my telephone number right
however.
This led to one of the worst conventions experiances I have ever
had.First 10 mins with the hotel clerk from hell( I had the staff
apolgising for her all weekend.) then 45 mins waiting gor the concom
staff to go thru the list of reservations at the Sofitel .
What really made it difficult was the fact that my girlfreinds purse
had been stolen two weeks before.So we could'nt even find either credit
card number or confirmation number.
Andrew Stephenson
m...@mark.atwood.name "Mark Atwood" writes:
> lofs...@lava.net (Karen Lofstrom) writes:
> >
> > I need to buy the right sort of sari
>
> Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
> culture or nationality.
Pass.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Robert Sneddon
<dsg...@iphouse.com> writes
>I'm jealous! All I've gotten along those lines is a Canadian in
>soc.politics explaining that I'm a typical American who gets all his
>opinions from television and knows nothing else about politics.
Heh. Dave Langford was accused of being English by Harlan *ll*son, no
less, and on this very newsgroup too!
--
Email me via robert (at) nojay (dot) org (new email address)
This address no longer accepts HTML posts.
Robert Sneddon
Ghod
: >
: > I need to buy the right sort of sari
:
: Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
: culture or nationality.
I can just picture me in a sari now.......sure. I've been known to
wear a great kilt on occasion, but somehow, a sari just doesn't fit my
self-image.
Dorothy J Heydt
Robert Sneddon <no...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <1mntiim9gxguv.1...@40tude.net>, Dan Goodman
><dsg...@iphouse.com> writes
>
>>I'm jealous! All I've gotten along those lines is a Canadian in
>>soc.politics explaining that I'm a typical American who gets all his
>>opinions from television and knows nothing else about politics.
>
> Heh. Dave Langford was accused of being English by Harlan *ll*son, no
>less, and on this very newsgroup too!
Harlan used to post on this group?????
That must've been before my time. Thank $DIETY.
Kate Schaefer
news:117glkj...@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <IFy6q...@kithrup.com>, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> I suppose there's nothing to prevent you from buying a sari and
>> using it as yard goods in the construction of a salwar kameez.
>
> I've got a cheap cotton sari that I plan to use for *exactly* that purpose
> -- I've got my salwar kameez pattern tweaked to perfection. I don't think
> I'd want to wear the sari as a sari because the "pallu", the fancy draped
> end, is not very nice.
>
> The problem with sewing with sari fabric is that it's usually quite THIN.
> A sari is worn over a choli and a petticoat, which do the serious
> coverage, and functions basically as the decorative part of the costume.
> It's a long, voluminous scarf. I'm going to have to sew my sari-fabric
> kameez with a self lining.
My plan exactly, for one sari I have. I'm planning to use another as lining
for a black jacket, so the bright sari silk can flash out and catch the eye
at unexpected moments.
Cally Soukup
> Karen Lofstrom wrote:
> > This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. Perhaps
> > because of my Wikipedia username, Zora? or because I tend to work
> > on Islamic and Bollywood articles? Anyhoo, I'm just tickled pink to
> In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
> Arabs or Turks at least three times. I Pakistani street vendor I
> purchased a muffin from once called me "brother". I never tell these
> people that I'm actually a Jew, I fear the consequences.
I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the waitress.
I'm still trying to figure that one out.
--
"I disapprove of what you have to say, but I will defend to the death
your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Dorothy J Heydt
Kate Schaefer <ka...@oz.net> wrote:
>>
>.... I'm planning to use another [sari] as lining
>at unexpected moments.
Ah, the Chanel touch. If you have enough fabric, you can do what
Chanel usually did in such cases: make a blouse of the same
fabric to wear with it. If you have enough more fabric than
that, you can do what Chanel didn't do: make more than one blouse
so that the blouse supply will last as long as the jacket.
Dorothy J Heydt
Karen Cooper <kar...@visi.com> wrote:
>appropriate to dress like it is"?
>
>I'd no more wear Subcontinental Indian clothing than I would buckskin and
>feathers or a Mao suit. Unless I lived there, and that's all there was.
In other words, everyone looks good in a sari (subject to
limitations discussed upthread) but not everyone feels good in
one.
Del Cotter
Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> said:
>Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote
>> > This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali.
>> In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
>> Arabs or Turks at least three times.
>I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the waitress.
>I'm still trying to figure that one out.
A friend was mistaken for someone of mixed Thailand-Wales extraction
once, because he was wearing a Thai Dai T-Shirt.
--
Del Cotter
Thanks to the recent increase in UBE, I will soon be ignoring email
sent to d...@branta.demon.co.uk. Please send your email to del2 instead.
Kate Schaefer
news:117hvjv...@corp.supernews.com...
> appropriate to dress like it is"?
>
> I'd no more wear Subcontinental Indian clothing than I would buckskin and
> feathers or a Mao suit. Unless I lived there, and that's all there was.
>
> lovely]
Well, as with so much of the rest of life, it depends. I'd wear buckskin but
probably not feathers; I'd wear a Mao jacket with jeans, but without the
hat.
I don't wear saris, though I intend to sew with them as yardage. I don't
wear palla and stola (ancient Roman women's clothing), either, though
they're Mark's equivalent, and much easier for me to manage, because I don't
want anyone chanting, "Toga! Toga! Toga!" as I walk around in daily life. I
do wear kimono without worrying that anyone will think that I'm claiming
Japanese culture as my own, but I don't wear full formal kimono with all the
trimmings, and I don't wear Regency costume, either (I could wear any of
these at any time at the right party, but not in daily life).
Human clothing is infinitely variable, and continually repeated. There
aren't very many different shapes for clothes to be made in, though there
are enough shapes and enough fabrics that the human desire for newness can
always be satisfied. Salwar kameez seem to me to be pantsuits done right, or
at least done considerably better than the way pantsuits were originally
introduced in the US. I like the fabrics, the length and the loose fit of
the tunic, and the way the tunic combines with the trousers. I like the many
allowable shapes of trousers.
I was mystified when I first shopped in an Indian fabric store, in
Vancouver, because the fabrics were offered in suits (three lengths of
coordinated fabrics) rather than by the yard. The last time I was there,
both options were available, suggesting that cultural cross-pollination has
taken place in a big way. The option of buying coordinated fabrics and
making whatever one wants, rather than having to search for fabrics that go
together, is appealing (not that I want to lose the option of searching for
fabrics that go together, you understand; I want both).
Kate Schaefer
news:IFz63...@kithrup.com...
Hadn't thought of that. Now I probably will make a matching top, since the
sari is about 5 yards. Thanks.
The blouse will last as long as the jacket lining, but neither is likely to
live as long as the jacket itself, since it's a leather jacket which has
already outlived one thin silk lining.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:UscCGx2k...@branta.demon.co.uk:
> On Wed, 4 May 2005, in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
> Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> said:
>
>> Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> > This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali.
>>> In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
>>> Arabs or Turks at least three times.
>
>> I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the waitress.
>> I'm still trying to figure that one out.
>
> A friend was mistaken for someone of mixed Thailand-Wales extraction
> once, because he was wearing a Thai Dai T-Shirt.
An ex-girlfriend, who was one-quarter Chinese and who wore her dark brown
hair back in a ponytail, used to have people walk up to her at bus stops here
in L.A. and speak to her in Spanish. She was irritated at this because it
suggested that they automatically assumed that she was Mestiza.
Matthew B. Tepper
The name "Miles" there reminds me of Art Buchwald's Franglais version of the
traditional story of Miles Standish, John Alden, and Priscilla Mullens:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~pm9k/Writings/artrech.html
Dorothy J Heydt
Matthew B. Tepper <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>An ex-girlfriend, who was one-quarter Chinese and who wore her dark brown
>hair back in a ponytail, used to have people walk up to her at bus stops here
>in L.A. and speak to her in Spanish. She was irritated at this because it
>suggested that they automatically assumed that she was Mestiza.
There was a letter to Miss Manners once upon a time in which a US
resident of Sri Lankan ancestry complained that people kept
taking her for an African American, and the part that bugged her
was that African-Americans made the mistake too, and would come
up to her in the hallways of the very large building they all
worked in and say, "Hi, how are ya?" even if they didn't know
her, and this bugged her because she didn't like to talk to
people she didn't know. Miss M. gently counseled her to take it
with a grain of salt, saying "Hi" (could it kill her?) and moving
on.
Mark Atwood
>
> Am I the only person who feels like, "Hey... not my culture, not
> appropriate to dress like it is"?
I'm sure you're not, but it sounds horribly confining.
Do you have the same attitude in re food?
--
Mark Atwood When you do things right, people won't be sure
m...@mark.atwood.name you've done anything at all.
http://mark.atwood.name/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
>appropriate to dress like it is"?
Well, yes and no. (I mean, I'm not about to wear either a sari or a salwar
kameez, but I don't have a big problem if other people want to wear 'em.)
For me, there's a huge gray area. I don't want to seem to be playing
dress-up, unless I actually _am_ playing dressup. (I do various historical
dance activities, so I'm able to dress for mid-1700s to mid-1900s, but in a
style like a white European or American. I find that I'm not really
willing to put on period military uniform; I don't feel like I'm entitled.
Some of those late-1700s and on through the mid-1800s outfits look really
terrific, too. Okay with me if other people want to do it.) But I don't
have a problem, hanging out in the folk world, with seeing people wear
ethnic clothing from other ethnicities than their own.
(Is it cultural appropriation when (for random example) Poles sell Polish
folk clothing to non-Poles? What if the non-Poles want to enjoy doing
Polish folk dance? What if Polish folk dance would die out altogether if
it weren't for non-Polish hobbyists, since most Polish-Americans get
subsumed into the dominant culture and think folk dance isn't cool?)
>I'd no more wear Subcontinental Indian clothing than I would buckskin and
>feathers or a Mao suit. Unless I lived there, and that's all there was.
Certainly your right as an individual. Part of the blurriness here for me
is that salwar kameez is enough like, y'know, clothes rather than costume
that it doesn't look, to me, like playing dress-up.
Did you have an opinion on dashikis? Nehru jackets? How about clothing
details on American clothes that are, um, inspired by ethnic originals?
What do you think about women in Victorian England getting Japanese kimonos
(some of them antique even at the time) and making dresses out of the fabric?
[I hope it's clear that I'm pointing out blurry cases and why I'm giving a
blurry answer; I don't mean to cross-examine you.]
Good to see you back in the newsgroup, by the way.
-- Alan
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
>Del Cotter <d...@branta.demon.co.uk> appears to have caused the following
>letters to be typed in news:UscCGx2k...@branta.demon.co.uk:
>
>> On Wed, 4 May 2005, in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
>> Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> said:
>>
>>> Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> > This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali.
>>>> In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
>>>> Arabs or Turks at least three times.
>>
>>> I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the waitress.
>>> I'm still trying to figure that one out.
>>
>> A friend was mistaken for someone of mixed Thailand-Wales extraction
>> once, because he was wearing a Thai Dai T-Shirt.
>
>An ex-girlfriend, who was one-quarter Chinese and who wore her dark brown
>hair back in a ponytail, used to have people walk up to her at bus stops here
>in L.A. and speak to her in Spanish. She was irritated at this because it
>suggested that they automatically assumed that she was Mestiza.
She could probably have foiled that by dressing as though she had money.
-- Alan
Rob Hansen
> In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
>Arabs or Turks at least three times. I Pakistani street vendor I
>purchased a muffin from once called me "brother". I never tell these
>people that I'm actually a Jew, I fear the consequences.
At various points I've been asked if I was a) Canadian, and b) Irish.
The Cardiff accent is sufficiently distinct from other Welsh accents
that I can see it causing some confusion, but I've never thought I
sounded either Canadian or Irish. (Such Irish ancestry as I have is
far enough back that it would have left no trace in my accent.)
--
Rob Hansen
www.fiawol.demon.co.uk
David Dyer-Bennet
> Am I the only person who feels like, "Hey... not my culture, not
> appropriate to dress like it is"?
No. Well, sort-of. I'd wonder if the people from that culture would
mind. If they didn't, then I might be too chicken, or not think it
worth the trouble, but I wouldn't have *that* kind of objections to
wearing the clothing.
Lydy has reported considerable *support* from the people of the
culture at work when she wears her Indian outfits.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
Lee Ratner
Cally Soukup wrote:
> Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in article
<1115202718.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>:
> > Karen Lofstrom wrote:
>
> > > This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. Perhaps
> > > because of my Wikipedia username, Zora? or because I tend to work
> > > on Islamic and Bollywood articles? Anyhoo, I'm just tickled pink
to
>
> > In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
> > Arabs or Turks at least three times. I Pakistani street vendor I
> > purchased a muffin from once called me "brother". I never tell
these
> > people that I'm actually a Jew, I fear the consequences.
>
> I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the
waitress.
> I'm still trying to figure that one out.
>
asked if I was part Chinese, I can understand being mistaken for a
Mediteranean type but part-Chinese by a Chinese person, I don't look
vaguely Chinese.
Mark Atwood
>
> I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the waitress.
> I'm still trying to figure that one out.
One of my sisters did kind of the opposite once.
She and I were out together at a new (to us) Mexican restaurant, and a
teenage Latina-appearing girl came to take our order. My (very gringa
appearing) sister rattled off her order in perfect Spanish, at which
point the waitress, blinked and then replied, in unaccented American
English, "I'm sorry, I don't understand Spanish.".
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>I'm engaged in a fierce online argument with some Iranian nationalists on
>Wikipedia, and one of them got so angry he said something like, "A Bengali
>living in Hawai'i has no right to say anything about Iran; go back to
>writing articles about Hindi movies."
>
>This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali. Perhaps because of
>my Wikipedia username, Zora? or because I tend to work on Islamic and
>Bollywood articles? Anyhoo, I'm just tickled pink to be pegged as such a
>cultural chameleon.
>
>I need to buy the right sort of sari, and the proper jewelry for a Bengali
>lady of a certain age ...
TNH has a thread on how to buy salwar kameez from eBay.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Kate Nepveu
>She and I were out together at a new (to us) Mexican restaurant, and a
>teenage Latina-appearing girl came to take our order. My (very gringa
>appearing) sister rattled off her order in perfect Spanish, at which
>point the waitress, blinked and then replied, in unaccented American
>English, "I'm sorry, I don't understand Spanish.".
Another reason for me not to work in an Asian restaurant: I get most
annoyed when people assume I speak an Asian language. (While they'd
have more reason than usual to make that assumption if I was, I think
the instinctive dislike would end up grating on the nerves.)
--
Kate Nepveu
E-mail: kne...@steelypips.org
Home: http://www.steelypips.org/
Book log: http://www.steelypips.org/weblog/
Dan Goodman
> Mark Atwood <m...@mark.atwood.name> wrote:
>
>>She and I were out together at a new (to us) Mexican restaurant, and a
>>teenage Latina-appearing girl came to take our order. My (very gringa
>>appearing) sister rattled off her order in perfect Spanish, at which
>>point the waitress, blinked and then replied, in unaccented American
>>English, "I'm sorry, I don't understand Spanish.".
>
> Another reason for me not to work in an Asian restaurant: I get most
> annoyed when people assume I speak an Asian language. (While they'd
> have more reason than usual to make that assumption if I was, I think
> the instinctive dislike would end up grating on the nerves.)
Looping around again: Once during the early 1970s, while I was on a bus in
Los Angeles, someone addressed me in a language I didn't know -- though I
could tell that it was an Indo-European one.
I said "Excuse me?"
He apologized, and explained he'd thought I was Bengali.
There are a number of people in India who look like me, except that they
tend to be darker-skinned. And I was as tanned as I'd ever been in my life
-- I'd been travelling in Italy and Yugoslavia, and I'd gotten: sunburn;
deep tan; more sunburn; deeper tan.
--
Dan Goodman
Journal http://www.livejournal.com/users/dsgood/
Decluttering: http://decluttering.blogspot.com
Predictions and Politics http://dsgood.blogspot.com
All political parties die at last of swallowing their own lies.
John Arbuthnot (1667-1735), Scottish writer, physician.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:IFzD9...@kithrup.com:
I suggested that she answer them in French or German.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:m2acna8...@amsu.fallenpegasus.com:
> Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> writes:
>>
>> I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the waitress.
>> I'm still trying to figure that one out.
>
> One of my sisters did kind of the opposite once.
>
> She and I were out together at a new (to us) Mexican restaurant, and a
> teenage Latina-appearing girl came to take our order. My (very gringa
> appearing) sister rattled off her order in perfect Spanish, at which
> point the waitress, blinked and then replied, in unaccented American
> English, "I'm sorry, I don't understand Spanish.".
In 1990 my then-girlfriend (different from the quarter-Chinese one) and I
were travelling around before going to the Worldcon in Den Haag. We were
in Paris for a few days, and when we got to the hotel I told her I'd take
care of things. The counter clerk was a Frenchwoman, who was humming "La
vie en rose" when we came in. I greeted her and then handled all of our
check-in information in French. Finally, gf and I got into the elevator,
and I evidently appeared to be having a hard time with it. The counter
clerk called to us, "You haff to pool eet to cloze eet."
Matthew B. Tepper
appears to have caused the following letters to be typed in
She didn't, because she didn't. Unfortunately, she had a terrible allergy.
And what was she allergic to? Work.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:1115247770.175572.252710
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
You and that ex- of mine should have traded places, at least in this
respect.
Lee Ratner
Mark Atwood wrote:
> Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> writes:
> >
> > I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the
waitress.
> > I'm still trying to figure that one out.
>
> One of my sisters did kind of the opposite once.
>
> She and I were out together at a new (to us) Mexican restaurant, and
a
> teenage Latina-appearing girl came to take our order. My (very
gringa
> appearing) sister rattled off her order in perfect Spanish, at which
> point the waitress, blinked and then replied, in unaccented American
> English, "I'm sorry, I don't understand Spanish.".
>
in a Japanese restaurant. The waitress was from Korea.
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
>win...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes:
>
>>In article <117hvjv...@corp.supernews.com>, Karen Cooper <kar...@visi.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>In article <m23bt3z...@amsu.fallenpegasus.com>
>>>> m...@mark.atwood.name "Mark Atwood" writes:
>>>>> Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
>>>>> culture or nationality.
>>>
>>>appropriate to dress like it is"?
>
>>Well, yes and no. (I mean, I'm not about to wear either a sari or a salwar
>>kameez, but I don't have a big problem if other people want to wear 'em.)
>
>on the latest craze and don't want to be. I see little explicit room for
>that in fandom. Riding the cresting wave of whatever is fannishly in
>vogue isn't required to be a fan, says me.
I am _so_ not up on the latest crazes in fandom.
>
>>[I hope it's clear that I'm pointing out blurry cases and why I'm giving a
>>blurry answer; I don't mean to cross-examine you.]
>
>Well, no, but thanks for saying.
Sorry it wasn't clear.
>
>>Good to see you back in the newsgroup, by the way.
>
>That's kind of you to say. Would you possibly continue the kindness a bit
>more and tell me who you are?
I'm this guy who's still in rassef since the last time you were posting.
I'm not sure what more to say about that - I don't think we've met or anything.
>
>Karen. [I see I should have been more clear in my original post and said
> that I don't care what other people wear, so there is no need
> whatsoever for anyone to explain or defend their choices. I also
> have asked for the experience of people wearing Indian clothing to
> events with Indian attendees]
Well, you didn't trigger _my_ defensometer.
-- Alan
Paul Dormer
> In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
> Arabs or Turks at least three times. I Pakistani street vendor I
> purchased a muffin from once called me "brother". I never tell these
> people that I'm actually a Jew, I fear the consequences.
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown is a Kenyan Asian who writes for the Independent.
(The British Empire transferred a large number of Asian workers from India
to east Africa. In the sixties and seventies, the new African governments
kicked them out, and many ended up in Britain, as they had British
passports. During my thirty years of work, I had one Uganda Asian manager
and two Kenyan Asians.)
She wrote an article about how she is treated when travelling around
Europe. So, in France, she's assumed to be Algerian. In Germany,
Turkish. In Italy, they assume she's Italian, but with bad dress sense.
Alan Braggins
>Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> writes:
>>
>> I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the waitress.
>> I'm still trying to figure that one out.
>
>One of my sisters did kind of the opposite once.
>
>She and I were out together at a new (to us) Mexican restaurant, and a
>teenage Latina-appearing girl came to take our order. My (very gringa
>appearing) sister rattled off her order in perfect Spanish, at which
>point the waitress, blinked and then replied, in unaccented American
>English, "I'm sorry, I don't understand Spanish.".
At college I knew someone who was studying (classical) Greek, and
tried using it in a local restaurant. The owner explained what while
it was nominally a Greek restaurant, he was actually Turkish Cypriot,
but thanked her for making the effort.
(Turkish and Greek Cypriots in the UK seem to get on better than
they do in Cyprus.)
Ulrika O'Brien
win...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says...
> >>Good to see you back in the newsgroup, by the way.
> >
> >That's kind of you to say. Would you possibly continue the kindness a bit
> >more and tell me who you are?
>
> I'm this guy who's still in rassef since the last time you were posting.
> I'm not sure what more to say about that - I don't think we've met or anything.
Karen, meet Alan. Alan, meet Karen.
Karen, just in case you're looking for his fannish credentials, or
summat, I will point out that Alan has a faannish pedigree as long as my
arm. I met him when I first joined LASFS, or thenabouts, back in 1981.
He was one of the few LASFS Scribes in my experience to take the
tradition that the Minutes are supposed to be funny as an opportunity to
actually make the Minutes funny.
He's been in LASFAPA that entire time, then 'til now, continuously, god
help us all, but has for yonks been living in the Bay Area, where his
primary fanac that I'm aware of is said APA, Regency Dancing (among the
many sorts of dancing things he does), and his steady, low volume (in
several senses) participation in rasseff. If you don't remember him
from your previous occasions in the group it may be because he wasn't
posting a whole lot back then and you probably had no other context from
which to recognize his name. For all that, he's much like me-- circa
1994 -- in having been long term in and of faannish fandom without
hitting the radar screens of many other folks like you: he's likely to
be one handshake away from you several different ways. He's a fine and
dryly witty writer, and I have at least once coaxed something out of him
for a fanzine.
And for invisibility, he's certainly much better than *some* former Hugo
administrators and SFPA editors I could name, who read the group
seemingly constantly and e-mail me little notes of comment when
something I say catches their eye but never trouble themselves to post,
and thus remain entirely anonymous to most of rasseff.
--Ulrika, who's mostly using this post to point out that it isn't
actually that weird to be of (or at least closely related to) faanish
fandom and yet unknown to most of it, anyway. There's nothing like
dredging up ten-year-old arguments...
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:117jq66...@corp.supernews.com:
> Mark Atwood <m...@mark.atwood.name> writes:
>
>>Karen Cooper <kar...@visi.com> writes:
>>>
>>> Am I the only person who feels like, "Hey... not my culture, not
>>> appropriate to dress like it is"?
>
>>I'm sure you're not, but it sounds horribly confining.
>
> Hey, thanks. And I even said that.
>
>>Do you have the same attitude in re food?
>
> No. How small does a town in America have to be before it has no Chinese
> restaurant?
Small enough to have no Jews.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> --Ulrika, who's mostly using this post to point out that it isn't
> actually that weird to be of (or at least closely related to) faanish
> fandom and yet unknown to most of it, anyway. There's nothing like
> dredging up ten-year-old arguments...
There are some fans (none that I am aware of in this newsgroup, though) who
still contemn me for the way I was in the early 1970s.
Ulrika O'Brien
> am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) writes:
>
> >In article <m23bt3z...@amsu.fallenpegasus.com>
> > m...@mark.atwood.name "Mark Atwood" writes:
>
> >> culture or nationality.
>
>
> Am I the only person who feels like, "Hey... not my culture, not
> appropriate to dress like it is"?
I am not a demographer, but I doubt you're the only one. On the other
hand, I've never been very attuned to that sort of sensibility, myself.
I am a cultural magpie, since a very early age, listening to my mother's
old LPs of Miriam Makeba singing in Portugese, and Ran and Nama singing
in folksongs in Hebrew. Also, as someone who was forced at an equally
early age to adopt someone else's culture, I find a certain amount of
cultural relativism habitual.
The times I've worn the salwar kamiz as street clothes (or rather, every
time I've worn them: street clothes is, after all, what they are) I've
had lots and lots of positive response, including from Indian women, and
no negative response at all, at least that anyone has felt like sharing
with me. This pleases me enormously because they are comfortable and
flattering outfits, and as TNH points out over at Making Light, there
are a number of pretty sound reasons why buying directly from merchants
in India and Pakistan is the sort of practice that is just A Good Idea.
> I'd no more wear Subcontinental Indian clothing than I would buckskin and
> feathers or a Mao suit. Unless I lived there, and that's all there was.
I used to borrow my brother's buckskin shirt (a holdover from black
powder days) over a miniskirt at Bay Cons (and would have worn it more
often, but I could only borrow it when I was in San Jose), though not, I
admit, with feathers. The response to that was pretty positive, too,
though I can't say I remember anyone explicitly of First Nations descent
hitting on me...
> Karen. [which is quite self-limiting, I understand, and the fabrics can be
> lovely]
Chacun and their gout, to be sure. (I don't, actually, see the wearing
of salwar kamiz as anything like a full blown fannish fad, by the bye,
and certainly not something I've seen anyone act as if it were
obligatory to be fannish. On the other hand, I have not been in
Minneapolis in sadly much too long, so I can't speak to your experience
there.)
Ulrika, who is currently learning ethnically correct dancing and is not
in the least offended by the non-Scandinavian class participants, though
she considers it quite charming that the Schottis --the Swedish version,
of a Viennese dance, interpreting what Scottish dancing looks like-- is
very much of the repertoire of Scandinavian dance...
David Dyer-Bennet
> Mark Atwood <m...@mark.atwood.name> writes:
>
>>Karen Cooper <kar...@visi.com> writes:
>>>
>>> Am I the only person who feels like, "Hey... not my culture, not
>>> appropriate to dress like it is"?
>
>>I'm sure you're not, but it sounds horribly confining.
>
> Hey, thanks. And I even said that.
>
>>Do you have the same attitude in re food?
>
> No. How small does a town in America have to be before it has no Chinese
> restaurant?
I think Northfield still doesn't have one, so apparently 17,000 is
possible. Maybe one has appeared that my mother hasn't mentioned, but
if so it's probably because it's no good.
David Dyer-Bennet
> win...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes:
>
>>In article <117hvjv...@corp.supernews.com>, Karen Cooper <kar...@visi.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>In article <m23bt3z...@amsu.fallenpegasus.com>
>>>> m...@mark.atwood.name "Mark Atwood" writes:
> [...]
>>>>> Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
>>>>> culture or nationality.
>>>
>>>Am I the only person who feels like, "Hey... not my culture, not
>>>appropriate to dress like it is"?
>
>>Well, yes and no. (I mean, I'm not about to wear either a sari or a salwar
>>kameez, but I don't have a big problem if other people want to wear 'em.)
>
> I don't either. I guess I was just making allowance for people who aren't
> on the latest craze and don't want to be. I see little explicit room for
> that in fandom. Riding the cresting wave of whatever is fannishly in
> vogue isn't required to be a fan, says me.
Individualism has been the cresting wave of what's fannishly in vogue
since, oh, 1975 or so; maybe earlier, I wasn't really here to check.
Most people I know didn't wear hall costumes when that was hot, most
people I know didn't do Goth/vampire stuff when that was hot, most
peole I know didn't wear caftans when that was hot, etc. While those
things were enough of a trend to be clearly visible. And they're all
*still* present.
joy beeson
(Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
> In article <m23bt3z...@amsu.fallenpegasus.com>
> m...@mark.atwood.name "Mark Atwood" writes:
[snip]
> > Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
> > culture or nationality.
>
> Pass.
How about a plaid or a toga?
Joy Beeson
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ -- needlework
http://home.earthlink.net/~dbeeson594/ROUGHSEW/ROUGH.HTM
http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ -- Writers' Exchange
joy beeson at earthlink dot net
Ulrika O'Brien
joy beeson wrote:
> On Wed, 04 May 2005 15:09:33 GMT, am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk
> (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
>
>
> > In article <m23bt3z...@amsu.fallenpegasus.com>
> > m...@mark.atwood.name "Mark Atwood" writes:
>
> [snip]
>
> > > Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
> > > culture or nationality.
> >
> > Pass.
>
> How about a plaid or a toga?
Just as long as it isn't a plaid [obBrit:tartan] toga, that's all I'm
sayin'.
--Ulrika
Mark Atwood
> still contemn me for the way I was in the early 1970s.
How were you then?
Andrew Stephenson
xbe...@invalid.net.invalid "joy beeson " writes:
> On Wed, 04 May 2005 15:09:33 GMT, am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk
> (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
>
> > In article <m23bt3z...@amsu.fallenpegasus.com>
> > m...@mark.atwood.name "Mark Atwood" writes:
>
> [snip]
>
> > > Everyone looks good in a sari (or equivalent), no matter their
> > > culture or nationality.
> >
> > Pass.
>
> How about a plaid or a toga?
I don't wear them much, either. They just don't look good on me.
With the possible exception of a full-blown Imperial toga, purple
'n' that with usual accessories: gold trim, laurel crown, lyre...
But plaid? I'd seem ridiculous.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Andrew Stephenson
oy兀earthlink.net "Matthew B. Tepper" writes:
> There are some fans (none that I am aware of in this newsgroup,
> though) who still contemn me for the way I was in the early
> 1970s.
Relax -- we're working up some brand-new material.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Dan Goodman
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> writes:
>>
>> There are some fans (none that I am aware of in this newsgroup, though) who
>> still contemn me for the way I was in the early 1970s.
>
> How were you then?
Short answer: Very annoying, and very easily annoyed.
And deficient in social skills compared to the average fan.
Mark Atwood
> On Thu, 05 May 2005 17:44:54 GMT, Mark Atwood wrote:
>> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> writes:
>>> There are some fans (none that I am aware of in this newsgroup,
>>> though) who still contemn me for the way I was in the early
>>> 1970s.
>> How were you then?
> Short answer: Very annoying, and very easily annoyed.
> And deficient in social skills compared to the average fan.
That is... impressive.
Jeffrey L. Copeland
Ulrika O'Brien <uaob...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>....
>And for invisibility, he's certainly much better than *some* former Hugo
>administrators and SFPA editors I could name, who read the group
>seemingly constantly and e-mail me little notes of comment when
>something I say catches their eye but never trouble themselves to post,
>and thus remain entirely anonymous to most of rasseff.
Since the intersection of the sets {former Hugo administrators} and
{former SFPA official editors} is exactly two -- and the one of them
who occupies the other side of my bed completely ignores RASFF -- I
make the noise that happens when you put your tongue between your
lips and push air past it.
Unless, of course, my ego has gotten the better of me and you were
speaking about the union of the sets, in which case I apologize,
and put my tongue back where it belongs.
(And to be pedantic in a way I learned during my days in Pasadena, I
do *not* read the group. I read the posts of selected individuals.
To do otherwise would occupy the parts of the day during which I need
to like, y'know, work. Posting on a regular basis not only takes
further time, but seems to cause spam pain, and occasional annoying
arguments, and I always seem to shoot from the hip rather than taking
time for thoughtful consideration as I do when writing fanzines. It
also seems to lead to sins like <slashout>onanism</slashout>
blogging.)
(However, that said, it is a cause for great joy that people who are
in my anti-killfile are reappearing in this corner of the metaverse
this week. Especially including auburned-haired Swedish ones who
live in the next town over but I don't see often enough.)
Jeff "counter-examples ya us" Copeland
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:111531...@deltrak.demon.co.uk:
Seen it.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:8pave4swxoa.hxe97lpkkwug$.d...@40tude.net:
> On Thu, 05 May 2005 17:44:54 GMT, Mark Atwood wrote:
>
>> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> writes:
>>>
>>> There are some fans (none that I am aware of in this newsgroup,
>>> though) who still contemn me for the way I was in the early 1970s.
>>
>> How were you then?
>
> Short answer: Very annoying, and very easily annoyed.
>
> And deficient in social skills compared to the average fan.
I believe your assessment is correct. I also believe that I have changed
considerably in thirty years. Some people appear to agree with me about that
change. Some do not, and while I've tried to show them I've changed, they're
just having none of it. To which I say, oh well, I've tried.
Vicki Rosenzweig
19:25:18 GMT:
>Del Cotter <d...@branta.demon.co.uk> appears to have caused the following
>letters to be typed in news:UscCGx2k...@branta.demon.co.uk:
>
>> On Wed, 4 May 2005, in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
>> Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> said:
>>
>>> Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> > This is just so cool. I've been mistaken for a Bengali.
>>>> In my life I have been mistaken for an Arab or Turk by actual
>>>> Arabs or Turks at least three times.
>>
>>> I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the waitress.
>>> I'm still trying to figure that one out.
>>
>> A friend was mistaken for someone of mixed Thailand-Wales extraction
>> once, because he was wearing a Thai Dai T-Shirt.
>
>An ex-girlfriend, who was one-quarter Chinese and who wore her dark brown
>hair back in a ponytail, used to have people walk up to her at bus stops here
>in L.A. and speak to her in Spanish. She was irritated at this because it
>suggested that they automatically assumed that she was Mestiza.
I'd probably assume it was just part of the usual thing of random
strangers asking me for information, and do my best to answer, in my
poor Spanish.
Then again, while I'd be startled if anyone thought I was mestiza, I
wouldn't be irritated.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Ulrika O'Brien
Karen Cooper wrote:
> Ulrika O'Brien <uaob...@earthlink.net> writes about Alan Winston:
> >He's been in LASFAPA that entire time, then 'til now, continuously,
god
> >help us all,
>
memory
> any more.
Erm. LAFAPA is not APA-L. I don't think LASFAPA ever had a
relationship with Minneapa the way 'L did. (Though, for that matter, I
think APW must have spent some time in APA-L as well, possibly
overlapping with mine.) Does make me wonder if *I* should remember
*you* from Minneapa, or vice versa, but in fact the only person whom I
distinctly remembered from that time when I materialized here was Dan
Goodman. I also managed not to put the Jenny Glover I knew in 'L
together with her actual self in Edinburgh until well after I had
stayed under her roof. "It was so dark; there were so many..."
Or, "Yeah, I have no memory either."
> >--Ulrika, who's mostly using this post to point out that it isn't
> >actually that weird to be of (or at least closely related to)
faanish
> >fandom and yet unknown to most of it, anyway. There's nothing like
> >dredging up ten-year-old arguments...
>
> I'm afraid whatever fannish fandom credentials I may ever have had
(none,
> by many counts) are pale and withered to transparency.
>
> Karen. [show of hands: who here has been told they weren't welcome at
> Corflu?]
Not that I know of. In fact, rich brown very kindly granted me
permission to go to my first Corflu, though I did at times feel a bit
like a sideshow freak until folks generally decided that after all I
walked on my hind legs and ate with cutlery and lost at poker like a
good fish. And folks like Tom Whitmore and Geri Sullivan already knew
me, which helped. Though the surprised cries of, "Hey, she fits right
in!" were only flattering if one didn't think about it too hard...
Ulrika, still wondering who the other woman rich brown first pointed
out as "Ulrika O'Brien" could have been
Kate Schaefer
news:117l0gk...@corp.supernews.com...
> win...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)
> writes:
>
>>In article <117jqpp...@corp.supernews.com>, Karen Cooper
>><kar...@visi.com> writes:
>>>Karen. [I see I should have been more clear in my original post and said
>>> that I don't care what other people wear, so there is no need
>>> whatsoever for anyone to explain or defend their choices. I also
>>> have asked for the experience of people wearing Indian clothing to
>>> events with Indian attendees]
>
>>Well, you didn't trigger _my_ defensometer.
>
> I don't know if I triggered anybody's exactly. Fans do so love to explain
> themselves and their experiences.
Yes, yes: we're alike in this way, and different in that way, and would you
just look at that thing over there?
I think of you every time I order eggs in an unfamiliar restaurant.
Sometimes I take your advice, sometimes I don't, but I always think about
it.
I don't think you and I have met, either, but we may have been in the same
place at the same time. It's traditional to confuse me with Karen Schaffer,
but since I know she isn't me, I used to confuse her with you until I got to
know her too well to be able to confuse her with anyone.
Ulrika O'Brien
> In article <MPG.1ce3cc816...@news.west.earthlink.net>,
> Ulrika O'Brien <uaob...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >....
> >And for invisibility, he's certainly much better than *some* former
Hugo
> >administrators and SFPA editors I could name, who read the group
> >seemingly constantly and e-mail me little notes of comment when
> >something I say catches their eye but never trouble themselves to
post,
> >and thus remain entirely anonymous to most of rasseff.
>
> Since the intersection of the sets {former Hugo administrators} and
> {former SFPA official editors} is exactly two -- and the one of them
> who occupies the other side of my bed completely ignores RASFF -- I
> make the noise that happens when you put your tongue between your
> lips and push air past it.
Raspberry all you like, fanboy. I win, I win. [Insert Weasel War
Dance here.] If I can prod you into posting to rasseff, truly I am
mighty and full of stars. I must come up with a way to use this power
for good...
> Unless, of course, my ego has gotten the better of me and you were
> speaking about the union of the sets, in which case I apologize,
> and put my tongue back where it belongs.
[mpmpfff. mpmprrmfflllmff. nnnnngggggrrrmmmffflmmmflllrrrmf.]
> (And to be pedantic in a way I learned during my days in Pasadena, I
> do *not* read the group. I read the posts of selected individuals.
> To do otherwise would occupy the parts of the day during which I need
> to like, y'know, work.
Ah. Good point. I'll take leave to be flattered, then. Grepped, at
the very least. But with pedantry like that, you'd fit right in around
if you were inclined to stay you know...
> Posting on a regular basis not only takes
> further time, but seems to cause spam pain, and occasional annoying
> arguments, and I always seem to shoot from the hip rather than taking
> time for thoughtful consideration as I do when writing fanzines. It
> also seems to lead to sins like <slashout>onanism</slashout>
> blogging.)
Hey, I washed my hands! Oh, okay, fine -- it's a fair cop -- have it
your own way and go back to lurking, then.
> (However, that said, it is a cause for great joy that people who are
> in my anti-killfile are reappearing in this corner of the metaverse
> this week. Especially including auburned-haired Swedish ones who
> live in the next town over but I don't see often enough.)
Oh, goody. I won't say my work here is done, but at least it's got off
to a good start.
> Jeff "counter-examples ya us" Copeland
Ulrika "still gloating" O'Brien
Andrew Plotkin
> [Insert Weasel War Dance here.]
Good grief, I take a look at RASFF and suddenly it's *good*. Is it
time for me to start paying attention again?
> If I can prod you into posting to rasseff, truly I am mighty and
> full of stars.
I know that wasn't aimed at me, but I'll take the sentiment.
So, tomorrow is my last day of work in the exciting world of networked
data storage. I am (voluntarily!) taking some time off to work on the
projects I *want* to work on. I have money to last a while, and after
that, we'll see what the hell is going to happen.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
I'm still thinking about what to put in this space.
Ulrika O'Brien
Andrew Plotkin wrote:
> Here, Ulrika O'Brien <ulr...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
> > [Insert Weasel War Dance here.]
>
> Good grief, I take a look at RASFF and suddenly it's *good*. Is it
> time for me to start paying attention again?
That is certainly the Sekrit Plan, yes. I can't promise it will work
out like that, but it's what we're working toward that end, we
Prodigals of the First Reformed Church...
> > If I can prod you into posting to rasseff, truly I am mighty and
> > full of stars.
>
> I know that wasn't aimed at me, but I'll take the sentiment.
The law of unintended consequences seems to blowing entirely my way
lately, so mazel tov.
> So, tomorrow is my last day of work in the exciting world of
networked
> data storage. I am (voluntarily!) taking some time off to work on the
> projects I *want* to work on. I have money to last a while, and after
> that, we'll see what the hell is going to happen.
Wow, good luck with that. Maybe this isn't such a good time for a
rasseffarian renaissance, then. I'd hate to be an enabler to
inappropriate time-sinkage.
Ulrika, who knows too well what that's like
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
to Karen Cooper:
>I think of you every time I order eggs in an unfamiliar restaurant.
>Sometimes I take your advice, sometimes I don't, but I always think about
>it.
I don't like eggs, but things like how to order them in unfamiliar
restaurants is interesting. Will someone explain?
--
Marilee J. Layman
Dan Goodman
> Dan Goodman <dsg...@iphouse.com> appears to have caused the following
=>
>> On Thu, 05 May 2005 17:44:54 GMT, Mark Atwood wrote:
>>> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyţ@earthlink.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>> There are some fans (none that I am aware of in this newsgroup,
>>>> though) who still contemn me for the way I was in the early 1970s.
>>>
>>> How were you then?
>>
>> Short answer: Very annoying, and very easily annoyed.
>>
>> And deficient in social skills compared to the average fan.
>
> I believe your assessment is correct. I also believe that I have changed
> considerably in thirty years. Some people appear to agree with me about that
> change. Some do not, and while I've tried to show them I've changed, they're
> just having none of it. To which I say, oh well, I've tried.
There are some people who think I'm exactly the same as I was _forty_ years
ago.
They appear not to have changed. Or rather, the main change I see is that
they're much less likely to try anything new.
Marilee J. Layman
>
>Mark Atwood wrote:
>> Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> writes:
>> >
>> > I was mistaken for a Thai once. In a Thai restaurant, by the
>waitress.
>> > I'm still trying to figure that one out.
>>
>> One of my sisters did kind of the opposite once.
>>
>> She and I were out together at a new (to us) Mexican restaurant, and
>a
>> teenage Latina-appearing girl came to take our order. My (very
>gringa
>> appearing) sister rattled off her order in perfect Spanish, at which
>> point the waitress, blinked and then replied, in unaccented American
>> English, "I'm sorry, I don't understand Spanish.".
>>
> Something similar happened to me when I tried to use my Japanese
>in a Japanese restaurant. The waitress was from Korea.
I ate at a new Japanese restaurant today and, well, it wasn't *awful*.
It was very Americanized, nothing had enough taste, and the stuff in
the steam table could have come from a school cafeteria. The sushi
was better than that so I had more of that. All you can eat for $13,
but a sign says to only take as much as you can eat because if there's
anything left on your plate, you're charged double. I wonder if that
would hold up in court. They have teriyaki tables, but apparently
don't actually fire them up at lunch. I suppose I should try dinner
there sometime.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Kip Williams
> Karen, just in case you're looking for his fannish credentials, or
> summat, I will point out that Alan has a faannish pedigree as long as my
> arm. I met him when I first joined LASFS, or thenabouts, back in 1981.
And I was happy when I found he was here because he was in AZAPA with
me, some time between 1976 and 1978. Not for a long time, but enough for
me to remember him. During the time I've been lurking here instead of
posting, I've always made sure I look at his posts.
Kip
hard worker, loyal husband, all-around fine person (me, I mean)
Kip Williams
> There are some fans (none that I am aware of in this newsgroup, though) who
> still contemn me for the way I was in the early 1970s.
Yeah, when are you going to clean up your early 1970s act, man? I'm
losing patience. You have until 1974.
Kip
checking watch
Kip Williams
> Since the intersection of the sets {former Hugo administrators} and
> {former SFPA official editors} is exactly two -- and the one of them
> who occupies the other side of my bed completely ignores RASFF -- I
> make the noise that happens when you put your tongue between your
> lips and push air past it.
Bi-labial lingual forced fricative.
Kip
just saying, not doing
Kip Williams
> Dan Goodman <dsg...@iphouse.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:8pave4swxoa.hxe97lpkkwug$.d...@40tude.net:
>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 17:44:54 GMT, Mark Atwood wrote:
>>>"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> writes:
>>>
>>>>There are some fans (none that I am aware of in this newsgroup,
>>>>though) who still contemn me for the way I was in the early 1970s.
>>>
>>>How were you then?
>>
>>Short answer: Very annoying, and very easily annoyed.
>>
>>And deficient in social skills compared to the average fan.
>
> I believe your assessment is correct. I also believe that I have changed
> considerably in thirty years. Some people appear to agree with me about that
> change. Some do not, and while I've tried to show them I've changed, they're
> just having none of it. To which I say, oh well, I've tried.
No, we're talking about the early 70s, not 30 years ago. See, that would
be...
...
...oh my GOD, I'm OLD!
Kip
old
Kip Williams
> Ulrika, still wondering who the other woman rich brown first pointed
> out as "Ulrika O'Brien" could have been
"Ulrika O'Brien is what I’m pointing to when I point at something and
say 'That’s Ulrika O'Brien.'"
Kip
definin' fool
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
>In article <00A434AB...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,
>win...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says...>> >>Good to see you back in the newsgroup, by the way.
>> >
>> >That's kind of you to say. Would you possibly continue the kindness a bit
>> >more and tell me who you are?
>>
>> I'm this guy who's still in rassef since the last time you were posting.
>> I'm not sure what more to say about that - I don't think we've met or anything.
>
>Karen, meet Alan. Alan, meet Karen.
>Karen, just in case you're looking for his fannish credentials, or
>summat, I will point out that Alan has a faannish pedigree as long as my
>arm. I met him when I first joined LASFS, or thenabouts, back in 1981.
>tradition that the Minutes are supposed to be funny as an opportunity to
>actually make the Minutes funny.
>
>He's been in LASFAPA that entire time, then 'til now, continuously, god
>primary fanac that I'm aware of is said APA, Regency Dancing (among the
>many sorts of dancing things he does), and his steady, low volume (in
>several senses) participation in rasseff. If you don't remember him
>from your previous occasions in the group it may be because he wasn't
>posting a whole lot back then and you probably had no other context from
>which to recognize his name. For all that, he's much like me-- circa
>1994 -- in having been long term in and of faannish fandom without
>hitting the radar screens of many other folks like you: he's likely to
>be one handshake away from you several different ways. He's a fine and
>dryly witty writer, and I have at least once coaxed something out of him
>for a fanzine.
Shucks, ma'am. That's awfully nice of you to say.
(I suppose I'll add my desiccated convention-fandom credentials: first con was
LAcon I in 1972 (age 12), chaired of Loscon VI in 1979, film program for
varions Loscons, the 1980 Westercon, the 1984 Worldcon; bid committee and
sadly-ineffective program co-chair for 1989 Westercon (the work got done, but
it generally wasn't done by me), daily newszine editor/publisher for
ConFrancisco, Ops rover for Denvention, etc. Committee secretary of the first
L-5 con. Worked on a couple of Bouchercons. Haven't done anything for
conventions except Regency dancing since 1993, though; done it for BayCon,
Loscon, Silicon in multiple incarnations, Mythcon, etc.)
>And for invisibility, he's certainly much better than *some* former Hugo
>administrators and SFPA editors I could name, who read the group
>seemingly constantly and e-mail me little notes of comment when
>something I say catches their eye but never trouble themselves to post,
>and thus remain entirely anonymous to most of rasseff.
>
>--Ulrika, who's mostly using this post to point out that it isn't
>actually that weird to be of (or at least closely related to) faanish
>fandom and yet unknown to most of it, anyway. There's nothing like
>dredging up ten-year-old arguments...
Oh, let's not.
-- Alan
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
>Ulrika O'Brien <uaob...@earthlink.net> writes about Alan Winston:
>
>>Karen, meet Alan. Alan, meet Karen.
>
>>Karen, just in case you're looking for his fannish credentials, or
>>summat, I will point out that Alan has a faannish pedigree as long as my
>
>Hadn't occurred to me to wonder, but thanks for the info!
>
>>He's been in LASFAPA that entire time, then 'til now, continuously, god
>>help us all,
>
>any more.
Nope. Minneapa coexisted with APA-L, and that happened long after my year in
APA-L. LASFAPA's a different apa.
>
>>--Ulrika, who's mostly using this post to point out that it isn't
>>actually that weird to be of (or at least closely related to) faanish
>>fandom and yet unknown to most of it, anyway. There's nothing like
>>dredging up ten-year-old arguments...
>
>I'm afraid whatever fannish fandom credentials I may ever have had (none,
>by many counts) are pale and withered to transparency.
>
>Karen. [show of hands: who here has been told they weren't welcome at
> Corflu?]
Not me; I've attended one. (I didn't feel all that generally welcome, but had
some friends who were much more in the mainstream at the con. One died four
days later.)
-- Alan
Dark Victory
>
> (snip) I guess I was just making allowance for people who aren't
> on the latest craze and don't want to be. I see little explicit room for
> that in fandom. Riding the cresting wave of whatever is fannishly in
> vogue isn't required to be a fan, says me.
>
I'm very much with you on this one. As a relative newcomer to fandom,
I've been amused that many fans embrace nonconformity in personal
presentation, provided it fits within The Guidelines.
Vanessa
who has no fannish credentials whatsoever, and is unlikely to acquire any
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
>win...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes:
>
>>>win...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Am I the only person who feels like, "Hey... not my culture, not
>>>>>appropriate to dress like it is"?
>>>
>>>>Well, yes and no. (I mean, I'm not about to wear either a sari or a salwar
>>>>kameez, but I don't have a big problem if other people want to wear 'em.)
>>>
>>>I don't either. I guess I was just making allowance for people who aren't
>>>that in fandom. Riding the cresting wave of whatever is fannishly in
>>>vogue isn't required to be a fan, says me.
>
>
>Hmmm.
>
>>>>[I hope it's clear that I'm pointing out blurry cases and why I'm giving a
>>>>blurry answer; I don't mean to cross-examine you.]
>>>
>>>Well, no, but thanks for saying.
>
>>Sorry it wasn't clear.
>
>Quite all right.
>
>>>>Good to see you back in the newsgroup, by the way.
>>>
>>>That's kind of you to say. Would you possibly continue the kindness a bit
>>>more and tell me who you are?
>
>>I'm this guy who's still in rassef since the last time you were posting.
>>I'm not sure what more to say about that - I don't think we've met or anything.
>
>
>>>Karen. [I see I should have been more clear in my original post and said
>>> that I don't care what other people wear, so there is no need
>>> whatsoever for anyone to explain or defend their choices. I also
>>> have asked for the experience of people wearing Indian clothing to
>>> events with Indian attendees]
>
>>Well, you didn't trigger _my_ defensometer.
>
>I don't know if I triggered anybody's exactly. Fans do so love to explain
>themselves and their experiences.
>
>out?]
Pretty much steadily here since 1993 or thereabouts. Occasionally I pass
through periods where I can't think of anything funny to say and have nothing
that seems useful either, and I try not to post when that's happening.
-- Alan
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
[snippage of the entire post in order to respond to the postscript]
>
>Ulrika, who is currently learning ethnically correct dancing and is not
>in the least offended by the non-Scandinavian class participants, though
>she considers it quite charming that the Schottis --the Swedish version,
>of a Viennese dance, interpreting what Scottish dancing looks like-- is
>very much of the repertoire of Scandinavian dance...
A Viennese dance? I'm a little blurry about where the schottische/schottis
etc actually comes from. Frantisek Bonus had the (it seemed to me charmingly
naive view) that it was what happened when the Scots got hold of the polka
(which was, as he pointed out repeatedly, not a Polish dance but a Bohemian
one; if you want a Polish dance you should do the mazur).
They certainly did polkas in Vienna; they did them pretty much everywhere in
Europe and the US after 1844, but I wouldn't have called it a Viennese dance
in the sense that the Viennese Waltz is Viennese.
And they did schottisches (sometimes called "Barn Dances") in the
English-speaking countries in, at least, the 1880s. No visible sign in the
"Military Schottische", etc, of attempted Scottishness, but here was something
called the "Highland Schottische", which has some mock-Highland setting steps
in it.
-- Alan
Doug Wickstrom
<MPG.1ce3d085a...@news.west.earthlink.net>
Ulrika O'Brien <uaob...@earthlink.net> caused electrons to
dance and photons to travel coherently in saying:
>Ulrika, who is currently learning ethnically correct dancing and is not
>in the least offended by the non-Scandinavian class participants, though
>she considers it quite charming that the Schottis --the Swedish version,
>of a Viennese dance, interpreting what Scottish dancing looks like-- is
>very much of the repertoire of Scandinavian dance...
The Engleska is the Swedish interpretation of the same dance from
a different direction. But the polska. What about the polska?
Doug, who for some number of years now has been playing
ethnically correct Rättvik-dialect Dalarna folkmusik, and having
a blast with his fiddle, and is off to go fiddle in a few minutes
on his fiol made by Daniel Wickström of Stockholm in 1818.
--
Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net>
"I don't want to belong to a club that would accept me as a member."
--Groucho Marx
Now filtering out all cross-posted messages and everything posted
through Google News.
Kate Schaefer
news:u1al71p00j4oat38f...@4ax.com...
You want this:
http://www.mnstf.org/minicon34/restaurant-guide/m34_restaurant_guide_improved.pdf
Page 82. You (Marilee, that is, as opposed to the generic newsgroup reader)
probably have a physical copy of the Minicon Restaurant Guide, so you can
carry it around your condo as you read it and laugh, instead of standing at
the computer keyboard as you read it and laugh.
Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
I think that would be an excellent muttered string of curses, the sound
you sometimes hear as "mutter mutter ratzen fratzen datzen".
Although there's some charm to
"Yes, old chum, the Raspberry Terror is on the loose again."
"Holy bi-labial lingual forced fricatives, Batman!"
-- Alan (glad to see you posting again)
Kip Williams
> In article <JSxee.2069$sy6.371@lakeread04>, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> writes:
>
>>Jeffrey L. Copeland wrote:
>>
>>>Since the intersection of the sets {former Hugo administrators} and
>>>{former SFPA official editors} is exactly two -- and the one of them
>>>who occupies the other side of my bed completely ignores RASFF -- I
>>>make the noise that happens when you put your tongue between your
>>>lips and push air past it.
>>
>>Bi-labial lingual forced fricative.
>
> I think that would be an excellent muttered string of curses, the sound
> you sometimes hear as "mutter mutter ratzen fratzen datzen".
I've always found it handy in print as well. As to the quoted bits, the
sequence I use -- based on the dog in old Hanna-Barbera cartoons -- is
"rass'n frack'n bats'n bazzle..."
> Although there's some charm to
>
> "Yes, old chum, the Raspberry Terror is on the loose again."
>
> "Holy bi-labial lingual forced fricatives, Batman!"
>
>
> -- Alan (glad to see you posting again)
Glad to be back.
Kip
yes
Nels Satterlund
Nels
--
Nels E Satterlund I don't speak for the company
Ne...@Starstream.net <-- Use this address please,
My Lurkers motto: I read much better than I type.
Keith F. Lynch
> All you can eat for $13, but a sign says to only take as much as
> you can eat because if there's anything left on your plate, you're
> charged double.
Sounds like a good way to encourage unwanted food on the floor, in the
chairs, in the potted plants, etc.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Cally Soukup
> Vanessa
> who has no fannish credentials whatsoever, and is unlikely to acquire any
Well, posting to Rasseff can be fannish credentials, if you want them
to be. Just sayin'.
--
"I disapprove of what you have to say, but I will defend to the death
your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Keith F. Lynch
> I simply cannnot state enough times that I think everybody should
> wear what they like.
It would be -- interesting -- if anyone and everyone could dress as a
policeman, military officer, etc.
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:TQxee.2068$sy6.1961@lakeread04:
Give me until 2074 and I think I'll have it worked out.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:d5eja5$1c3$1...@panix3.panix.com:
> Karen Cooper <kar...@visi.com> wrote:
>> I simply cannnot state enough times that I think everybody should
>> wear what they like.
>
> It would be -- interesting -- if anyone and everyone could dress as a
> policeman, military officer, etc.
I want to wear tan shoes, pink shoelaces, a polka-dot vest, a big Panama
with a purple hatband, and appropriate shirt, trousers, underwear, etc.