new FLIGHT stuff: Photos of First Hugo & free poster
AIRAFLIGHT
What's coming up on our Home site.... soon to the Live Dimension:
audio files of Vanna Bonta radio interviews and the song "Home Is You"
(from page 289 of FLIGHT)
Also coming soon, !! pictures of the FIRST Hugo Awards!!,
and new author & fan pics!.
More new stuff: Send in for your Certificate for official membership in
the FLIGHT Association on Nonsleeping Humans. Go to Fan Club for info on
how to do that, and claim your free Flight poster.
* * F LIGHT * * *
Part human Part cosmic
liberating the Earth from the grips of Zzzz Zone *
************Aira Flight**************
http://members.aol.com/airaflight
Scott fan club & earth coordinator
FLIGHT
XNimshubur
Does anyone know what this FLIGHT thingamabob is?
Doug Wickstrom
E-mail: remove the "X" from the addy. If you forget,
your mail won't bounce, but may never be read.
"Farming looks easy when your plow is a pencil and you're
a thousand miles from a cornfield." -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
JamesAB5
xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur) writes:
>Does anyone know what this FLIGHT thingamabob is?
What?! You never heard of "Quantum" Fiction? And you call yourself a
fan?? ;-)
Actually, it's just a cheesy New-Age wannabe SF novel that some people
claim helps them "understand" some new reality or somesuch. While it's
certainly calmed down lately, overzealous promos for the book have annoyed
people on and off AOL for nigh on 2 years or so.
If you are in the mood for some good unintentional laughs, check out Vanna
Bonta's topics under the AOL Authors Spotlight Forum.
And while the original post of THIS thread is kinda sorta appropriate
(I'll leave that up to rasff regulars), the other thread advertizing a chat
on AOL's closed system out here on Usenet doesn't seem to make much sense.
Best,
Jim Bailey (jame...@aol.com)
----------------------------------------------
Short Fiction Roundup with 1996/1997
SF/Fantasy Short Story Author Index
http://www.sff.net/people/jbailey/roundup/
SAGstarpix
>xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur) writes:
>
>>Does anyone know what this FLIGHT thingamabob is?
>
>What?! You never heard of "Quantum" Fiction? And you call yourself a
>fan?? ;-)
; ) cleverJim Bailey!
>
>Actually, it's just a cheesy New-Age wannabe SF novel that some people
>claim helps them "understand" some new reality or somesuch.
Keep your day job, Jim!!
> While it's
>certainly calmed down lately, overzealous promos for the book have annoyed
>people on and off AOL for nigh on 2 years or so.
WHOA WOW!! Millions of people annoyed by rave reviews of a
book! Jim!! Relieved to hear "it's calmed down."
>If you are in the mood for some good unintentional laughs, check out Vanna
>Bonta's topics under the AOL Authors Spotlight Forum.
Unintentional laughs, sure. Always in the mood. They're
always better than intentional laughs. Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Thanks for the tip, will visit the folder for sure. It must be
great if you hate it!
>And while the original post of THIS thread is kinda sorta appropriate
>(I'll leave that up to rasff regulars), the other thread advertizing a
chat on AOL's closed system out here on Usenet doesn't seem to make much sense.
>Best,
>Jim Bailey (jame...@aol.com)
Well, Jim Bailey, try not to ponder too hard. You need that
energy for your wannawrite career. I suggest fiction.
SAGstarpix
"Flight" is a book that hinges its plot and premies on the latest quantum
theory. Bonta has won alot of awards for poetry, works on alot of SF
movies, has been published since age 11, and while alot of SF folks like
the book, it got great reviews, and alot of metaphysically interested folks
do too, it's not a "genre" book at all.
There's a definition of 'quantum fiction' on the web site. It's like the
future now, and reality is a "vritual reality" because intelligence affects
molecular reality.
NOTeeBecca
"Those hated are mirrors. Those loved are windows."
Jim Bailey (jame...@aol.com) writes:
>What?! You never heard of "Quantum" Fiction? And you call yourself a
>fan?? ;-)
>Actually, it's just a cheesy New-Age wannabe SF novel that some people
>claim helps them "understand" some new reality or somesuch.
Keep your day job, Jim!!
> While it's
>certainly calmed down lately, overzealous promos for the book have annoyed
>people on and off AOL for nigh on 2 years or so.
> WHOA WOW!! Millions of people annoyed by rave reviews of a
book! Jim!! Relieved to hear "it's calmed down."
: D <g> big bad book! I've been tracking
it for two years and three days myself :P Wish it would leave me alone.
:P : P
>And while the original post of THIS thread is kinda sorta appropriate
>(I'll leave that up to rasff regulars), the other thread advertizing a
chat on AOL's closed system out here on Usenet doesn't seem to make much sense.
>Best,
>Jim Bailey (jame...@aol.com)
kinda sorta yeah
>SAGst...@aol.com wrote: Well, Jim Bailey, try not to ponder
too hard. You need that energy for your wannawrite career. I suggest
fiction.
People who laughed at me on the playground were..imploding and trying
to escape.
"Those hated are mirrors. Those loved are windows."
Puppy styling, I can coif your pooch.
JamesAB5
sagst...@aol.com (SAGstarpix) writes:
>
>jame...@aol.com (Jim Bailey) writes: <reinsert attribution>
>>fan?? ;-)
>
Why, thankee!
>>Actually, it's just a cheesy New-Age wannabe SF novel that some people
>>claim helps them "understand" some new reality or somesuch.
>
> Keep your day job, Jim!!
Advice noted. I'm touched by your concern. :-)
>> While it's
>>certainly calmed down lately, overzealous promos for the book have annoyed
>>people on and off AOL for nigh on 2 years or so.
>
> WHOA WOW!! Millions of people annoyed by rave reviews of a
>book! Jim!! Relieved to hear "it's calmed down."
Yes, annoying when posting a copyrighted review to several different
topics, many of which were inappropriate in the first place. Also, dumping
such things in the name of blatant promotion is rude, even if "on topic."
And if we're talking about the PW review, IT was just flat out incompetent.
>>If you are in the mood for some good unintentional laughs, check out Vanna
>>Bonta's topics under the AOL Authors Spotlight Forum.
>
> Unintentional laughs, sure. Always in the mood. They're
> always better than intentional laughs. Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
> Thanks for the tip, will visit the folder for sure. It must be
>great if you hate it!
I didn't say that. I LOVE watching other people navel gaze. It's SOOO cute.
<Angst><Angst><Whine>
<Revelation!>
<Whine><Angst><Deep Thought>
<More Angst>
I certainly wouldn't dream of disturbing this process, so I stay out of it
myself -- let them have their fun.
>>And while the original post of THIS thread is kinda sorta appropriate
>>(I'll leave that up to rasff regulars), the other thread advertizing a
>chat on AOL's closed system out here on Usenet doesn't seem to make much
>sense.
>>Best,
>>Jim Bailey (jame...@aol.com)
>
> Well, Jim Bailey, try not to ponder too hard. You need that
>energy for your wannawrite career. I suggest fiction.
I'll try not to confuse my fiction with reality, metaphysical or otherwise.
(Sorry rasffolks, I'll avoid fanning this any further... after *this* of
course. :-)
BorgFreeee
>
>jame...@aol.com (Jim Bailey) wrote:
<And if we're talking about the PW review, IT was just flat out incompetent.>
Thanks for setting us straight on the publishing magazines, Jim. Uh,
I guess all the other incompetent idiots besides Publishers Weekly,
like American Library Association, Booklist etc. who wrote
*extremely* positive reviews
on this book should learn from you too???? :-)
Jim Bailey wrote:
<Angst><Angst><Whine>
<Revelation!>
<Whine><Angst><Deep Thought>
<More Angst>
>I certainly wouldn't dream of disturbing this process, so I stay out of it
>myself -- let them have their fun.
You STAY OUT of that process? Could've fooled me! but please
do indeed let us have our fun! best thing you've said.
Soooo....cool about the news and thanks for the post.
Jen
~~~Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Doesn't it? Make you wonder?
the BEST sex in the world is in the book FLIGHT by Vanna Bonta
join the club http://members.aol.com/airaflight
Resistance is not futile. Borgfreee ~~~~~wavelengths~~~
NOTeeBecca
borgf...@aol.com (BorgFreeee) writes:
> the BEST sex in the world is in the book FLIGHT by Vanna Bonta
From: xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur)
>Date: 14 Sep 1997 21:40:19 GMT
>I would be most surprised if that were true, as would the owners of any
>number of web sites who make this same claim. Perhaps they should join
forces.>As for me, I'd rather have no sex at all than to get it from a
book. (As
>opposed to gender, of course.)
ooogross! those websites aren't sex!. It's the diff between Eros (son
of Venus) and Porn (whore) graphy (writing!)
Doug! You haven't read the book or you'd know...the great thing about
the sex in "Flight" isn't descriptive button-pushing rot, it's that it's
connected to love and soul!
But you sound "integrated" in your eroticism. That's good. You're an
evolved guy.
-Becky
XNimshubur
In article <19970914083...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
borgf...@aol.com (BorgFreeee) writes:
> the BEST sex in the world is in the book FLIGHT by Vanna Bonta
I would be most surprised if that were true, as would the owners of any
number of web sites who make this same claim. Perhaps they should join forces.
As for me, I'd rather have no sex at all than to get it from a book. (As
opposed to gender, of course.)
Doug Wickstrom
E-mail: remove the "X" from the addy. If you forget,
your will bounce from here to Mars.
NOTeeBecca
woops, sorry... meant to post this inside this thread...
From: jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5) Jim Bailey
Date: 14 Sep 1997 01:11:26 GMT
>>If you are in the mood for some good unintentional laughs, check out Vanna
>>Bonta's topics under the AOL Authors Spotlight Forum.
> Thanks for the tip, will visit the folder for sure. It must be
>great if you hate it!
jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5) Jim Bailey
>I LOVE watching other people navel gaze. It's SOOO cute.
navel gazing?? "cute"?? I think he missed something... I
found the folder (thanks for the info!) and found some mensa folks, quantum
physicists, college music major, and overall good conversation. The other
Bonta folders in Fictional Realm Author Spotlight Forum had great poetry by
other writers too, interesting food recipes with stories behind them, and
good information about film and voiceover. Thank U :)
NOTeeBecca
XNimshubur
In article <19970915074...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur) writes:
>Eroticism, me? Gerry, Lydy, ddb, tell this person!
^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, Geri, I can't believe I did that. And twice, too.
Doug Wickstrom
To reply by E-mail, remove the "X" from the addy. If you forget,
your mail will bounce from here to Mars.
XNimshubur
In article <19970914223...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
notee...@aol.com (NOTeeBecca) writes:
>But you sound "integrated" in your eroticism. That's good. You're an
>evolved guy.
I think I've been insulted!
Eroticism, me? Gerry, Lydy, ddb, tell this person!
Me not ero-tic. Me not evol-ved. Me just out of cave, scratching flea.
Me thinking maybe take up ag-ri-cult-ure, but no like work hard. Me like
beer, though. Have di-lem-ma.
Me think go find wo-man, use club, drag to cave, make cook, clean, maybe
make chew hide for new clothing. Old skins stink so bad _me_ can smell me.
Maybe kill goat, wear skin. Maybe not smell so bad. <sniff, sniff>
Whew! Like 10-day dead cave bear. Nope. Not ero-tic. Not evol-ved.
On second thought, maybe Gerry's support isn't what I need here. That
"cute" remark the other day may be indicative of a contrary opinion, for
all that it took me completely aback.
Marilee J. Layman
In <5vhsrd$348...@mrw.panix.com>, awnb...@panix.com (Michael R
Weholt) wrote:
> What the hell is it with this Invasion of the AOL Vanna Bonta
>Fanclub into this newsgroup all of a sudden? Is this under the rubric
>of There Is No Such Thing As Bad Publicity, or what?
It appears to be cyclic -- feel free to use the old database on
Dejanews to look up rasf and Vanna Bonta. While I was just there to
make sure which database it was on, I found a post from LitWitt that
is almost word for word the same as a new one from Ms. Borgfreeee.
They're even recycling their words. I should remind you, Michael,
that on AOL people can have five screennames per account and
occasionally folks will use all five to develop "support" for
themselves or their causes.
--
Marilee J. Layman Co-Leader, The Other*Worlds*Cafe
RELM Mu...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group
**New** Web site: http://home.virtual-pc.com/outland/owc/index.html
AOL keyword: FR > Science Fiction > The Other*Worlds*Cafe (listbox)
SAGstarpix
>> What the hell is it with this Invasion of the AOL Vanna Bonta
>>Fanclub into this newsgroup all of a sudden? Is this under the rubric
>>of There Is No Such Thing As Bad Publicity, or what?
Relax, realx. Don't be so alarmed. Since it's just one person
with 5 screennames as Marilee claims, you can relax. Vanna Bonta will
probably just starve and die and you'll never be ...er...uncomfortable at
the sight of her or her admirers again!
mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) writes:
>It appears to be cyclic -- feel free to use the old database on
>Dejanews to look up rasf and Vanna Bonta. While I was just there to
>make sure which database it was on, I found a post from LitWitt that
>is almost word for word the same as a new one from Ms. Borgfreeee.
Ah Ms. Layman, as your screennames on AOL imply: Patterner, Relm Muse,
Alter Pat etc.
There is some pattern to your avid reactions to Vanna Bonta and any
praise anyone breathes of her or her work. quite interesting. Pet peeve?
You try to make it seem like the *entire SF community* hates her, and
that's just plain... rabid. (besides grossly untrue)
As someone who works in the entertainment industry, and who hires
writers and actors, I know many people in the field personally. I have to
comment that there's alot of this color in Hollywood. Quite frankly, it
just sounds like someone trying to lead a lynching.
An invasion by Bonta's fan club?? ROFLOL!! I just saw a post
about a chat with the author.
Relax guys. And...lady . (I thought filkers were supposed to be
benign?)
marilee says:
>They're even recycling their words. <
Seemswhat you're doing Ms. Layman. Bad publicity is RIGHT, that seems to
be a recurring " pattern", and that's the one that seems organized.
>mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) writes:
> I should remind you, Michael,
>that on AOL people can have five screennames per account and
>occasionally folks will use all five to develop "support" for
>themselves or their causes.
As you do, behind the scenes and on various threads.. casting
your disapproval. (Real friends that don't gossip are hard to find)
> jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5) Jim Bailey writes:
>Yikes! Hope I don't get lumped in as a VB follower/persona. I have
other Evil Plots that I use my 5 screennames for.
: ) Not a chance!! You're obviously a Marilee & "cool people" follower!
Oh, and this one! Ms. Bonta will not get your "patronage"?? Right!
That'll rally people to boycott this book and author for sure!
Lemmings will follow, sure. Oh...and...uh...somnambulists, too.
<g> yep, i read the book.
Chasman
JamesAB5
>Weholt) wrote:
>
>
>> What the hell is it with this Invasion of the AOL Vanna Bonta
>>Fanclub into this newsgroup all of a sudden? Is this under the rubric
>>of There Is No Such Thing As Bad Publicity, or what?
>
>Dejanews to look up rasf and Vanna Bonta. While I was just there to
>make sure which database it was on, I found a post from LitWitt that
>is almost word for word the same as a new one from Ms. Borgfreeee.
>that on AOL people can have five screennames per account and
>occasionally folks will use all five to develop "support" for
>themselves or their causes.
Yikes! Hope I don't get lumped in as a VB follower/persona. I have other
Evil Plots that I use my 5 screennames for.
I justed jumped at this one because I seem to have a button that gets
pushed when people start confusing fiction with reality. The original post
would have probably gone away if I didn't pick at it, but that's me --
pick, pick, pick.
And my original attack was too brutal to be a subtle way of sparking
discussion of something nobody wants to see. If I hadn't responded none of
this would have happened at all... er... I mean, um... defense rests.
DOUG!
It was him! <pointing wildly> He did it! If he wouldn't have asked
about it in the first place, I wouldn't have had a reason to followup.
Yeah, that's it. See? Not My Fault.
Glad I could clear that up. I'll be over in the corner if anybody needs me.
JamesAB5
sagst...@aol.com (SAGstarpix)
>
>mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) writes:
>>It appears to be cyclic -- feel free to use the old database on
>>Dejanews to look up rasf and Vanna Bonta. While I was just there to
>>make sure which database it was on, I found a post from LitWitt that
>>is almost word for word the same as a new one from Ms. Borgfreeee.
>
>Alter Pat etc.
>There is some pattern to your avid reactions to Vanna Bonta and any
>praise anyone breathes of her or her work. quite interesting. Pet peeve?
> You try to make it seem like the *entire SF community* hates her, and
>that's just plain... rabid. (besides grossly untrue)
As is your characterization that she's trying to speak for anybody but herself.
> As someone who works in the entertainment industry, and who hires
>writers and actors, I know many people in the field personally. I have to
>comment that there's alot of this color in Hollywood. Quite frankly, it
>just sounds like someone trying to lead a lynching.
That's me. *I* have issues with this whole phenomenon. I probably
shouldn't, but everyone always has one button that can be pushed. Mine is
rationality. When people confuse reality with fiction, something is wrong.
FLIGHT may be a good book, it may even have a message, but thinking that
it can enhance your life, give insights to the universe, or help you reach
new levels of awareness is just plain wrong.
You'll deny that anybody takes it this far, but I've read VB's message
boards, they do. Either she's taking the marketing concept of this book a
step too far, or she believes the snake-oil she's selling. Either way is
dangerous, because people WILL and DO buy into it. Heaven's Gate is
plentiful proof of that. That she refuses to disabuse her followers of
this notion ratchets my annoyance to disgust.
There is no new "Quantum" reality revealed in FLIGHT. It's an SF device
plain and simple, and I'm sure many of the people here can tell you exactly
how old it is too. A story is a story.
> An invasion by Bonta's fan club?? ROFLOL!! I just saw a post
>about a chat with the author.
Advertising a closed-system chat on Usenet? That's called rude (Oh, we're
having this wonderful chat, but YOU can't go). Posting it to several
different newsgroups is called spamming.
> Relax guys. And...lady . (I thought filkers were supposed to be
>benign?)
And I thought that somebody "evolved" by FLIGHT would have been more mellow.
>marilee says:
>>They're even recycling their words. <
>
>Seemswhat you're doing Ms. Layman. Bad publicity is RIGHT, that seems to
>be a recurring " pattern", and that's the one that seems organized.
People get naturally annoyed at inappropriate promos and that's organized?
Better not complain about the government because that's obviously a plot
to overthrow it.
>> jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5) Jim Bailey writes:
>>Yikes! Hope I don't get lumped in as a VB follower/persona. I have
>other Evil Plots that I use my 5 screennames for.
>
> : ) Not a chance!! You're obviously a Marilee & "cool people"
>follower!
Well, if that means people who know on which side of reality their toast
is buttered, yeah. :-)
Marilee J. Layman
In <19970916103...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, sagst...@aol.com
(SAGstarpix) wrote:
> Ah Ms. Layman, as your screennames on AOL imply: Patterner, Relm Muse,
>Alter Pat etc.
>There is some pattern to your avid reactions to Vanna Bonta and any
>praise anyone breathes of her or her work. quite interesting. Pet peeve?
> You try to make it seem like the *entire SF community* hates her, and
>that's just plain... rabid. (besides grossly untrue)
Your research is inadequate. I have two accounts and 9 names
currently on AOL. :) However, the only names I've ever used to post
to rasf are this one (mjla...@erols.com) and patt...@aol.com. I
stopped using patterner here when the AOL newsgroups started really
screwing up crossposts which drove me to get the Erols account. My
problem with the Bonta fans is that they did indeed use multiple names
to provide support for the book in AOL message boards. Her publicist
used a couple of different names as well and wrote posts as if they
were by a fan. The forum for which I was volunteering then is no
longer on AOL, so I haven't had to read any posts about Bonta for a
while other than these here in rasf. I think any book that requires
that kind of duplicity to be promoted is probably not worth reading
and I'm annoyed that less-aware people are tricked by it.
>>mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) writes:
>> I should remind you, Michael,
>>that on AOL people can have five screennames per account and
>>occasionally folks will use all five to develop "support" for
>>themselves or their causes.
>
> As you do, behind the scenes and on various threads.. casting
>your disapproval. (Real friends that don't gossip are hard to find)
I have no idea what you're talking about here. Please be more
specific.
T Nielsen Hayden
SAGstarpix <sagst...@aol.com> wrote:
> >xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur) writes:
> >
> >>Does anyone know what this FLIGHT thingamabob is?
> >
> >What?! You never heard of "Quantum" Fiction? And you call yourself a
> >fan?? ;-)
> ; ) cleverJim Bailey!
> >
> >Actually, it's just a cheesy New-Age wannabe SF novel that some people
> >claim helps them "understand" some new reality or somesuch.
> Keep your day job, Jim!!
> > While it's
> >certainly calmed down lately, overzealous promos for the book have annoyed
> >people on and off AOL for nigh on 2 years or so.
> WHOA WOW!! Millions of people annoyed by rave reviews of a
> book! Jim!! Relieved to hear "it's calmed down."
> >If you are in the mood for some good unintentional laughs, check out Vanna
> >Bonta's topics under the AOL Authors Spotlight Forum.
> Unintentional laughs, sure. Always in the mood. They're
> always better than intentional laughs. Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
> Thanks for the tip, will visit the folder for sure. It must be
> great if you hate it!
> >And while the original post of THIS thread is kinda sorta appropriate
> >(I'll leave that up to rasff regulars), the other thread advertizing a
> chat on AOL's closed system out here on Usenet doesn't seem to make much sense.
> >Best,
> >Jim Bailey (jame...@aol.com)
> Well, Jim Bailey, try not to ponder too hard. You need that
> energy for your wannawrite career. I suggest fiction.
Oh, go away. You sound like a complete idiot. This is the first I've ever
heard of you, and I'm already annoyed. The only way I'll ever be able to
give =Flight= a dispassionate reading will be if I completely forget that it
has any connection with your posting.
:: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::
:: t...@panix.com ::: fwa ::
T Nielsen Hayden
Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <341d9633...@news.erols.com>,
> >In <5vhsrd$348...@mrw.panix.com>, awnb...@panix.com (Michael R
> >Weholt) wrote:
> >> What the hell is it with this Invasion of the AOL Vanna Bonta
> >>Fanclub into this newsgroup all of a sudden? Is this under the rubric
> >>of There Is No Such Thing As Bad Publicity, or what?
> >
> >Dejanews to look up rasf and Vanna Bonta. While I was just there to
> >make sure which database it was on, I found a post from LitWitt that
> >is almost word for word the same as a new one from Ms. Borgfreeee.
> >that on AOL people can have five screennames per account and
> >occasionally folks will use all five to develop "support" for
> >themselves or their causes.
> Ah.... I *see*. Thanks. Yeah, it reminds me of those
> fraudulent emails I get that have a subject line like: "Here's that
> url you wanted" and then I open it (*knowing* I shouldn't, of course)
> and it turns out to be some spam trying to sell me bulk-email software
> or whatever.
> I'm afraid Ms. Bonta will just have to do without my
> patronage. I'm sure her book would make me just all a-squiggle were I
> to read it, but I see now that I'd sooner squirt milk from my
> eyeballs.
Amen, Michael, amen. If ever there were bad publicity, this is it. I loathe
the book already, and I've never even seen a copy. But I believe from the
bottom of my heart that it is stupid, misleading, marginally literate, and a
waste of time. I further believe that all of its fans/promoters are idiots,
and I want them to GO AWAY GO AWAY GO AWAY AND DON'T COME BACK.
All this from just a handful of postings. Really, I'm surprised at myself.
::tnh::
::fwa::
Barnaby
NOTeeBecca wrote in article <19970914223...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
...
>But you sound "integrated" in your eroticism. That's good. You're an
>evolved guy.
You sound like a Wookie porn star.
Barnaby Rapoport
Ray Radlein
T Nielsen Hayden wrote:
>
> Amen, Michael, amen. If ever there were bad publicity, this is it. I
> loathe the book already, and I've never even seen a copy. But I
> believe from the bottom of my heart that it is stupid, misleading,
> marginally literate, and a waste of time. I further believe that all
> of its fans/promoters are idiots, and I want them to GO AWAY GO AWAY
> GO AWAY AND DON'T COME BACK.
>
> All this from just a handful of postings. Really, I'm surprised at
> myself.
Welcome to the Information Stuporhighway.
- Ray R.
--
*********************************************************************
"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?"
"The same thing we do every night, Pinky - try to RULE THE SEVAGRAM!"
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
*********************************************************************
Emshandar
>From: jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5)
> I probably
>shouldn't, but everyone always has one button that can be pushed. Mine is
>rationality. When people confuse reality with fiction, something is wrong.
> FLIGHT may be a good book, it may even have a message, but thinking that
>it can enhance your life, give insights to the universe, or help you reach
>new levels of awareness is just plain wrong.
Stranger in a Strange Land comes to mind in this context...
--
...johnny ace spun the chamber of his cowboy gun -- he was tired o'
waitin' for the beatin of the texas sun --
stuck it in his eye -- didn't even cry -- pulled the trigger and
he said "bye-bye"!...
mike weber <emsh...@aol.com>
AIRAFLIGHT
I wrote: >>There is some pattern to your avid reactions to Vanna
Bonta and any
>>praise anyone breathes of her or her work. quite interesting. Pet peeve?
>> You try to make it seem like the *entire SF community* hates her, and
>>that's just plain... rabid. (besides grossly untrue)
mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman):
>Your research is inadequate. I have two accounts and 9 names
>currently on AOL. :) However, the only names I've ever used to post
>to rasf are this one (mjla...@erols.com) and patt...@aol.com. I
>stopped using patterner here when the AOL newsgroups started really
>screwing up crossposts which drove me to get the Erols account. My
>problem with the Bonta fans is that they did indeed use multiple names
>to provide support for the book in AOL message boards. Her publicist
>used a couple of different names as well and wrote posts as if they
>were by a fan.
Tis is total froth. Her publicist WAS a fan! At least one I
knew of a couple of years ago. A lot of people really love VB.
>>>mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) writes:
> The forum for which I was volunteering then is no
>longer on AOL, so I haven't had to read any posts about Bonta for a
>while other than these here in rasf.
Sure, I recall this chant of yours! When you were "Omni Muse". I
recall you were reprimanded by AOL by trying to act as though you knew the
"real identities" of people posting!! When, of course, there is NO WAY
you could.
>>>mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) writes:
I think any book that requires
>that kind of duplicity to be promoted is probably not worth reading
>and I'm annoyed that less-aware people are tricked by it.
You don't have to worry about the awareness of many of the people
who write in abotu FLIGHT. The only duplicity I smell is your attempt to
discredit something which is fun and, uplifting.
Your posts are not only totally off-topic to this thread, which I posted
about having pictures of the first Hugo going up on the website, etc., but
they are also transparent. I'm sorry, even if a couple of people did
post under two or three screennames, I can't see that as something to get
so worked up over! ESPECIALLY in the balance of the perspective of
everything else.
in context to Ms. Layman's comment:
>>> I should remind you, Michael,
>>>that on AOL people can have five screennames per account and
>>>occasionally folks will use all five to develop "support" for
>>>themselves or their causes.
SAG STARpix wrote:
>> As you do, behind the scenes and on various threads.. casting
>>your disapproval. (Real friends that don't gossip are hard to find)
>
>I have no idea what you're talking about here. Please be more
>specific.
>
Well, I'd be interested in hearing about this, too SAGstarpix, but maybe
in another thread. I DO remember that Marileee Layman used to work for the
government, something dealing with bombs, and I wonder how responsibiliy
NOTeeBecca
(Marilee J. Layman)
> My
>problem with the Bonta fans is that they did indeed use multiple names
>to provide support for the book in AOL message boards.
Wow, Omni Muse? Wasn't that section in AOL a couple of years ago?
It sounds as if you should be worried about your OWN unawareness if you
think you can judge "Bonta fans" by a couple the posts that have been
haunting you all this time! You ignore and discredit the many sources who
welcomed the book, and the many people who love it, and their intelligence
by making it seem that only a "duplicitous publicist" and "stupid fans"
promoted the book....gezz lady, I first read about it in the fanzine
Sorcerer's Scroll, and look at the pages of great reviews all over the
cover, from the American Libr Association to Publishers Weekly to Gene
Roddenberry who have @@@@@glowing@@@ things to say about "Flight".
What's REALLY weird is hating a book you haven't even read (as a couple of
'brilliant mensa's' have mentioned in here!!) This sounds "cyclic",
misdirected and uniform in tone to me! Perhaps you should start your own
fan club Marilee? <g>
But then again....some people on the planet devote their creative energies
to creating bombs (were you really thrown off the Tomahawk Missile Project???)
so go figure!!!!!!
NOTeeBecca
Hey Scott (or Butch) whoever, thanks for the post on the free posters:)
It came today.
NOTeeBecca
>From: jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5)
> I probably
>shouldn't, but everyone always has one button that can be pushed. Mine is
>rationality. When people confuse reality with fiction, something is wrong.
James Jimbo ::affectionately tugging sleeve:: <g> that's one of the
themes of the book, the relationship of reality with fiction. SF itself
has MOLDED the reality in which we live.
>From: jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5)
> FLIGHT may be a good book, it may even have a message, but thinking that
>it can enhance your life, give insights to the universe, or help you reach
>new levels of awareness is just plain wrong.
I disagree. I think it's one of the main fucntions of art in
society...or should be.
From: emsh...@aol.com (Emshandar)
Stranger in a Strange Land comes to mind in this context...
-
mike weber <emsh...@aol.com>
NOTeeBecca
mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman): <<The forum for which I was
volunteering then is no
longer on AOL, so I haven't had to read any posts about Bonta for a
while other than these here in rasf. <<
You haven't HAD to read any posts about Bonta???
Still don't HAVE to ! <g> : D Be well.
Marilee J. Layman
In <19970917080...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, airaf...@aol.com
(AIRAFLIGHT) wrote:
>
>I wrote: >>There is some pattern to your avid reactions to Vanna
>Bonta and any
>>>praise anyone breathes of her or her work. quite interesting. Pet peeve?
>>> You try to make it seem like the *entire SF community* hates her, and
>>>that's just plain... rabid. (besides grossly untrue)
Actually, SAGstarpix wrote that. So you're both SAGstarpix and
AIRAFLIGHT?
<snip>
>>>>mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) writes:
>> The forum for which I was volunteering then is no
>>longer on AOL, so I haven't had to read any posts about Bonta for a
>>while other than these here in rasf.
>
>Sure, I recall this chant of yours! When you were "Omni Muse". I
>recall you were reprimanded by AOL by trying to act as though you knew the
>"real identities" of people posting!! When, of course, there is NO WAY
>you could.
Nope, this is not true. First of all, that was my GMI Muse name, and
secondly I have never been reprimanded by AOL. And although I may not
know all the actual identities, it's fairly easy to determine that
certain names belong to the same individual, as you agree below.
<snip>
> You don't have to worry about the awareness of many of the people
>who write in abotu FLIGHT. The only duplicity I smell is your attempt to
>discredit something which is fun and, uplifting.
>Your posts are not only totally off-topic to this thread, which I posted
>about having pictures of the first Hugo going up on the website, etc., but
>they are also transparent. I'm sorry, even if a couple of people did
>post under two or three screennames, I can't see that as something to get
>so worked up over! ESPECIALLY in the balance of the perspective of
>everything else.
Actually, the thread almost immediately became about your overzealous
promoting of FLIGHT. I was posting in response to other posts about
that. This kind of promotion is inappropriate in r.a.sf.fandom anyway
-- this is about fandom, not about books or authors. So you think
it's fine that folks pretended to be several different people to make
FLIGHT look better?
<snip>
>SAG STARpix wrote:
>>> As you do, behind the scenes and on various threads.. casting
>>>your disapproval. (Real friends that don't gossip are hard to find)
>>
>>I have no idea what you're talking about here. Please be more
>>specific.
>>
>
>Well, I'd be interested in hearing about this, too SAGstarpix, but maybe
>in another thread. I DO remember that Marileee Layman used to work for the
>government, something dealing with bombs, and I wonder how responsibiliy
Do you address yourself by other names often? Since you can't provide
any proof to your accusation, I suppose we'll have to consider it a
lie. Ah, I love the innuendo in the last sentence. Let's see --
you're the FLIGHT fan club president and you charge money for that
membership -- I wonder how responsibly you handle the money?
Marilee J. Layman
In <19970917095...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, notee...@aol.com
(NOTeeBecca) wrote:
>
>(Marilee J. Layman)
>mjla...@erols.com wrote:
>> My
>>problem with the Bonta fans is that they did indeed use multiple names
>>to provide support for the book in AOL message boards.
>
>Wow, Omni Muse? Wasn't that section in AOL a couple of years ago?
Nope, that was GMI Muse. You guys have really bad sources.
>It sounds as if you should be worried about your OWN unawareness if you
>think you can judge "Bonta fans" by a couple the posts that have been
>haunting you all this time! You ignore and discredit the many sources who
>welcomed the book, and the many people who love it, and their intelligence
>by making it seem that only a "duplicitous publicist" and "stupid fans"
>promoted the book....gezz lady, I first read about it in the fanzine
>Sorcerer's Scroll, and look at the pages of great reviews all over the
>cover, from the American Libr Association to Publishers Weekly to Gene
>Roddenberry who have @@@@@glowing@@@ things to say about "Flight".
Yes, you, and LitWitt and BorgFreeee keep mentioning these reviews.
This is a mistake in a newsgroup inhabited by people who know the
publishing business. I didn't make either of the quotes you have
above, you're making them up. Not above sneakiness here, are you.
>But then again....some people on the planet devote their creative energies
>to creating bombs (were you really thrown off the Tomahawk Missile Project???)
> so go figure!!!!!!
Cruise missiles are not bombs. And no, I wasn't thrown off the
project. I became seriously ill and retired on disability. I am
still technically employed by that company and receive most of my
income from them.
Dave Locke
On 17 Sep 1997 08:04:46 GMT AIRAFLIGHT <airaf...@aol.com>
phosphorized about Marilee J. Layman:
>Well, I'd be interested in hearing about this, too SAGstarpix, but maybe
>in another thread. I DO remember that Marileee Layman used to work for the
>government, something dealing with bombs, and I wonder how responsibiliy
On 17 Sep 1997 09:52:18 GMT NOTeeBecca <notee...@aol.com>
phosphorized about Marilee J. Layman:
>But then again....some people on the planet devote their creative energies
>to creating bombs (were you really thrown off the Tomahawk Missile Project???)
> so go figure!!!!!!
Two more of your five AOL non-personalities heard from with more
garbage and illiterate crap. It's obvious that during evolution your
ancestors were all in the control group.
airaf...@aol.com (AIRAFLIGHT)
sagst...@aol.com (SAGstarpix)
All four of your alternate personalities are idiots. Go away.
Tell your fifth personality to stay away because of guilt by
association.
Vanna Bonta, "Flight":
_______________
Mendle paused to surmount a ridge of annoyance that was
densifying. He breathed deep again, stared at the rug. Finally he
said, "The girl."
Dr. Kaufkiff was perching over his glasses again, this time in
an unspoken question.
Mendle rubbed the inside of his palm with his thumb, alternating
between each hand as he spoke.
_______________
Tell her to stay away, too. She's as much an idiot and as poor a
writer as her fans are.
---
Dave | dave...@bigfoot.com
"I'm astounded by people who want to 'know' the universe when it's
hard enough to find your way around Chinatown." - Woody Allen
Loren MacGregor
In article <19970917100...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, notee...@aol.com
says...
>
> mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman): <<The forum for which I was
>volunteering then is no
>longer on AOL, so I haven't had to read any posts about Bonta for a
>while other than these here in rasf. <<
>
> You haven't HAD to read any posts about Bonta???
Well, yes. If you're moderating a forum, you are pretty much obliged
to read it.
-- LJM
T Nielsen Hayden
Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
> In <19970917080...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, airaf...@aol.com
> (AIRAFLIGHT) wrote:
> >I wrote: >>There is some pattern to your avid reactions to Vanna
> >Bonta and any
> >>>praise anyone breathes of her or her work. quite interesting. Pet peeve?
> >>> You try to make it seem like the *entire SF community* hates her, and
> >>>that's just plain... rabid. (besides grossly untrue)
> Actually, SAGstarpix wrote that. So you're both SAGstarpix and
> AIRAFLIGHT?
Of course s/he/it is; and NOTeeBecca as well. All their posts are obviously
being typed by the same person.
Marilee, if it's any comfort to you, <their> tone is instantly recognizable
to anyone who reads slush. We see these sometimes: impossibly high praise
for a weak book from mysterious third parties no one's ever heard of before.
Generally it means the writer's so tin-eared that they can't see any
difference between their own work and the kind of books reviewers genuinely
praise; and it follows that they don't imagine we'll be able to see any
difference either, or that we'll take their home-grown raves at anything but
face value.
::tnh::
::fwa::
XNimshubur
In article <19970917100...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
notee...@aol.com (NOTeeBecca) writes:
>>From: jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5)
>
>> I probably
>>shouldn't, but everyone always has one button that can be pushed. Mine is
>>rationality. When people confuse reality with fiction, something is wrong.
>
> James Jimbo ::affectionately tugging sleeve:: <g> that's one of the
>themes of the book, the relationship of reality with fiction. SF itself
>has MOLDED the reality in which we live.
>
>
<Snarf!> <Snurkle!>
--
XNimshubur
In article <19970917080...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
airaf...@aol.com (AIRAFLIGHT) writes:
>Your posts are not only totally off-topic to this thread, which I posted
>about having pictures of the first Hugo going up on the website, etc., but
>they are also transparent. I'm sorry, even if a couple of people did
>post under two or three screennames, I can't see that as something to get
>so worked up over! ESPECIALLY in the balance of the perspective of
>everything else.
>
OK. Here's the deal. This _thread_ is off-topic in this newsgroup, got
it? It _might_ have been appropriate in rec.arts.sf.written, but one free
kl00, for you only, special today: SF Fandom is _not_ about SF. SF Fandom
is about the interaction of those who _read_ SF have with each other.
Around these parts we rub blue mud in our navels, and you don't seem to
like blue mud.
>Well, I'd be interested in hearing about this, too SAGstarpix, but maybe
>in another thread. I DO remember that Marileee Layman used to work for the
>government, something dealing with bombs, and I wonder how responsibiliy
>
You heard incorrectly and partially, but in response to your snarky
question, a damned sight better than you could, I imagine.
Feel free to have the last word.
<Plonk!>
XNimshubur
In article <5vp2lh$e...@drn.zippo.com>, lmac...@efn.org (Loren MacGregor)
writes:
>In article <19970917100...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>notee...@aol.com
>says...
>>
>> mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman): <<The forum for which I was
>>volunteering then is no
>>longer on AOL, so I haven't had to read any posts about Bonta for a
>>while other than these here in rasf. <<
>>
>> You haven't HAD to read any posts about Bonta???
>
>Well, yes. If you're moderating a forum, you are pretty much obliged
>to read it.
Just as I _have_ to read posts about Animorphs and Space Cases, which,
BTW, are pretty similar to the contents of the Bonta folders, only
generally more coherent.
Marilee J. Layman
In <5vpqsb$n...@news1.panix.com>, T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com>
wrote:
>Marilee, if it's any comfort to you, <their> tone is instantly recognizable
>to anyone who reads slush. We see these sometimes: impossibly high praise
>for a weak book from mysterious third parties no one's ever heard of before.
>Generally it means the writer's so tin-eared that they can't see any
>difference between their own work and the kind of books reviewers genuinely
>praise; and it follows that they don't imagine we'll be able to see any
>difference either, or that we'll take their home-grown raves at anything but
>face value.
Well, it's the lying attacks that tickle at me, but you guys do know
me and these folks are making their own reputations. I do want to say
a bit about recognizing people in alternate screennames before I stop
answering these folks. When I signed on to AOL, the only SF area was
Asimov's/Analog. Ian Randall Strock used to post every now and then
that he was too busy to maintain the area and that was the full extent
of A/A action there. When I read the boards, I saw that the
discussion broke along gender lines -- men disregarded women, women
disregarded men. It was as if there were two simultaneous
discussions. So I decided to make what I thought was an androgynous
name. After some thought, I chose Patterner. I didn't choose it
lightly -- I score quite highly on pattern recognition and people
frequently insist I'm psychic when I've really just been patterning.
(I found out later that most people assume a name is male unless it's
markedly female.)
In any case, with the departure of Analog/Asimov's, the SF area on AOL
grew up into a large diverse megaforum and things are quite different
there now. When our forum has a "costume" night (Halloween,
particularly), I'm the one who can guess who everybody is. Most
people are not sufficiently aware of their mannerisms in typing,
spelling, punctuation, word choice, etc., to be able to alter them in
such a way as to hide their identity from someone who pays attention
to those details. Changing screennames is easy; changing identity is
hard.
XNimshubur
In article <19970917095...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
notee...@aol.com (NOTeeBecca) writes:
>But then again....some people on the planet devote their creative energies
>to creating bombs (were you really thrown off the Tomahawk Missile
>Project???)
> so go figure!!!!!!
And what have you accomplished in your short little life?
BTW, cruise missiles are not bombs.
Your ignorance is amazing.
And you are welcome to have the last word.
<Plonk!>
BorgFreeee
>In article <19970917100...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>notee...@aol.com
>says...
>>
>> mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman): <<The forum for which I was
>>volunteering then is no
>>longer on AOL, so I haven't had to read any posts about Bonta for a
>>while other than these here in rasf. <<
>>
>> You haven't HAD to read any posts about Bonta???
>
>Well, yes. If you're moderating a forum, you are pretty much obliged
>to read it.
She also said "other than these here in rasf"
...does she *have * to read these here? I mean, she's not moderating
here, is she?
~~~Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Doesn't it? Make you wonder?
the BEST sex in the world is in the book FLIGHT by Vanna Bonta
join the club http://members.aol.com/airaflight
Resistance is not futile. Borgfreee ~~~~~wavelengths~~~
BorgFreeee
DouWickstrom wrote:
<Around these parts we rub blue mud in our navels, and you don't seem to
like blue mud.>
No, it isn't that. We don't have navels! <g>
BorgFreeee
From: mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:24:41 GMT
>> Let's see --
you're the FLIGHT fan club president and you charge money for that
membership -- I wonder how responsibly you handle the money?<<
Could you explain this? What are you talking about? He doesn't
charge money! The Fan Club is free.
From: mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:24:41 GMT
> So you think
>it's fine that folks pretended to be several different people to make
>FLIGHT look better?
I think you're obsessed by this. You made a mention that I was a
"LitWitt" too ? Sorry. Wrong on that one. As for someone else, you didn't
ask me this, but I will say it's kind of silly to get *so* twisted up
about. If someone was doing that, I doubt it's those two or three
"screennames" that created the success and international recognition this
book and writer have acheived. I doubt one or two screen-names influenced
any of the super reviews the book received, since they were before the book
was even published. I am very perplexed by your obsession. I mean, for
that matter, Walt Whitman used to WROTE HIS OWN REVIEWS for newspapers!
Hailing *himself* as a great poet and philosopher.
Q! Where are you?? I think it's time for a trial. For the
crimes against humanity.
Vbonbon123
From: xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur)
>Just as I _have_ to read posts about Animorphs and Space Cases, which,
>BTW, are pretty similar to the contents of the Bonta folders, only
>generally more coherent.
>--
>Doug Wickstrom
I don't _think_ so. Not by a long shot.
BorgFreeee
From: dave...@bigfoot.com (Dave Locke)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:19:03 GMT
>>>"I'm astounded by people who want to 'know' the universe when it's
hard enough to find your way around Chinatown." - Woody Allen<<
This explains it. Well, Dave, for starters there's a website
where you can get a map to Chinatown.
Dave | dave...@bigfoot.com
>Go away<
Ouch. That hurt. :-(( Don't understand. 'Cept, you're not a
fan, you're stepping on our thread.
(Has it been too long since their college years?)
Loren MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom on 18 Sep 1997 05:41:35 GMT, borgf...@aol.com
(BorgFreeee) said:
>I mean, for that matter, Walt Whitman used to WROTE HIS OWN REVIEWS
'nuff said.
-- LJM
Loren MacGregor
lmac...@efn.org
Vbonbon123
>From: xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur)
>Date: 9 Sep 1997 20:35:06 GMT
>
>Does anyone know what this FLIGHT thingamabob is?
>
>Doug Wickstrom
It would seem, by your question at the beginning of this thread, that you
didn't know.
Your subsequent posts evidence it to be just a troll & set up for some
bad publicity by you & pals.
Somehow, the tone is reminiscent of the scene in the Wizard of Oz when
water gets on the witch.
Emshandar
From: book...@aol.com (Book Magic)
>Vbonbon123 <vbonb...@aol.com>:
>>> Are you referring to the TYPO? "o" is adjacent to "i" on the
>> keyboard.
>>> Or are you concurring with the point of this person's post, that the
>>> hooplah and case a couple of people are making out of some fan supposedly
>>> posting under two screennames, shall we say, lacks _humor_ and
>perspective?
>>> I read that about Walt Whitman, in National Geographic. Kudos to him!!
>
>
>T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com replies to
>>>Make that: AIRAFLIGHT,
> SAGstarpix,
> NOTeeBecca, and
> Vbonbon123
> are all the same person. I suspect the full list reads:
> >AIRAFLIGHT
> > SAGstarpix
> >NOTeeBecca
> >Vbonbon123
> > VannaBonta.
>
> Interesting theory, Sherlock, but that still leaves hundreds of other
>names I've read posting love for this book, not all from those "nasty
>AOLers" either. Think the conspiracy and delusion might have spread that
>much?
>
>Better get on the stick. There are only a couple of you trying to
>spray-paint it black. The people fooled into thinking they really were
>moved to tears or entertained by this is countless now. Louder, louder,
>hurl more mud! Ridicule more fans!
Damn! How dare we make fun of der feuhrer!?!
Emshandar
From: vbonb...@aol.com (Vbonbon123)
I, on the other hand, without even seeing the non-Bonta posts referred to
DO think so.
BTW -- not everyone on AOL is totally braindead... some of us can
actually LEARN something... However, if THIS stuff was yer only contact
with AOL, i can see why you might apply even less complimentary terms than
"braindead" to AOL.
However, i think THIS one (or five, or whatever) was braindead before ever
encountering AOL...
Book Magic
jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5)
> I probably shouldn't, but everyone always has one button that can be
pushed. Mine is rationality. When people confuse reality with fiction,
something is wrong.
>it can enhance your life, give insights to the universe, or help you reach
>new levels of awareness is just plain wrong.
emsh...@aol.com (Emshandar) replies:
>Stranger in a Strange Land comes to mind in this context...
Interesting you should mention that. It's unforgivable among certain
"want to get published" writers that Vanna Bonta was compared to Robert
Heinlein in a major trade literary review. Many reviews are posted on a
fan website for the book, maintained by Butch and Scott (AIRAFLIGHTaol.com).
There has been a chasm in the publishing business between "literature" and
"SF", science fiction (mistakenly so in my personal opinion) being
considered "less than literature." I think the gap is narrowing. Bonta's
book is not on SF shelves, but on "Literature" shelves.
I have met Vanna Bonta (Westercon), and have heard her speak on two
occasions. I have also had the great pleasure of working with her. Having
had this experience, it's particularly amazing to come upon the stragglers
in this thread going nuts like this. It's like watching people jumping up
and down on a rose, or trying to spray-paint a butterfly different colors.
I find it particularly disturbing coming from Marilee Layman as the "Co
Leader" of AOL's "Other Worlds Cafe" as it seems to violate the spirit of
this forum to bash people that express genuine enthusiasm for a new book
and writer. If not to fans, she should at least have the respect in mere
acknowledgement to professionals around the world with whom Bonta has
genuinely earned her accolades. It seems a violation of her position as a
leader in a fiction forum to insitigate and solicit support for petty attacks.
Everyone has the right to make fun, have fun, and dislike, but not at the
expense of truth, with allegations and accusations based on a "psychic
ability to know" who a screenname is, or with attempts to silence people
who facts in rebuttal. The book and the author have earned their place and
respect in many circles, communities, and countries. That may be,
ironically, the very reason they are up for pot shots.
Where is the true spirit of fandom and SF? Decayed into bitterness and
cynicism?
Having put on my asbestos suit, at least I've said my piece. Peace.
E.J.
Emshandar
From: T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com>
>David Langford <ans...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:19:03 GMT, dave...@bigfoot.com (Dave Locke) wrote
>> ... or rather, quoted:
>
>> >Vanna Bonta, "Flight":
>> > _______________
>> > Mendle paused to surmount a ridge of annoyance that was
>> >densifying. He breathed deep again, stared at the rug. Finally he
>> >said, "The girl."
>> > Dr. Kaufkiff was perching over his glasses again, this time in
>> >an unspoken question.
>> > Mendle rubbed the inside of his palm with his thumb, alternating
>> >between each hand as he spoke.
>
>> Thog like! Thog want copy!
>
>
>
>One foresees =Flight= achieving a certain immortality in the SF community.
>
>
However, Some People will NEVER admit that it's worse than THE CLONES or
WEREWOLF VS. THE VAMPIRE WOMAN (which does have the advantage of being a
bad English translation of a bad German novelisation of an AWFUL Mexican
movie...)
Emshandar
From: vbonb...@aol.com (Vbonbon123)
>>I mean, for that matter, Walt Whitman used to WROTE HIS OWN REVIEWS
>
>'nuff said.
>
>-- LJM
>
>Loren MacGregor
>lmac...@efn.org
>
>
> Are you referring to the TYPO? "o" is adjacent to "i" on the
>keyboard.
> Or are you concurring with the point of this person's post, that the
>hooplah and case a couple of people are making out of some fan supposedly
>posting under two screennames, shall we say, lacks _humor_ and perspective?
> I read that about Walt Whitman, in National Geographic. Kudos to him!!
>
>
what was that phrase someone just used in a slightly different context --
oh, yes -- "Thick as two short planks"
Or, possibly, slightly more dense than neutronium...
Vbonbon123
Book Magic
Make no mistake, rasf is not ***"the SF community."***
Immortality, maybe.
From: emsh...@aol.com (Emshandar) replied
>However, Some People will NEVER admit that it's worse than THE CLONES or
>WEREWOLF VS. THE VAMPIRE WOMAN (which does have the advantage of >being a
>bad English translation of a bad German novelisation of an AWFUL Mexican
>movie...)
ROFLOLOLOLOL!!!
Book Magic
Vbonbon123 <vbonb...@aol.com>:
>> Are you referring to the TYPO? "o" is adjacent to "i" on the
> keyboard.
>> Or are you concurring with the point of this person's post, that the
>> hooplah and case a couple of people are making out of some fan supposedly
>> posting under two screennames, shall we say, lacks _humor_ and perspective?
>> I read that about Walt Whitman, in National Geographic. Kudos to him!!
Loren MacGregor
In article <19970918170...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, book...@aol.com
says...
>
>Better get on the stick. There are only a couple of you trying to
>spray-paint it black. The people fooled into thinking they really were
>moved to tears or entertained by this is countless now. Louder, louder,
>hurl more mud! Ridicule more fans!
Gary, have you been playing with your Mac programs on line again?
I am rather stunned that, in an era when people are seriously
working on creation of AI programs, someone took the time out
to create an Artificial Unintelligibility program.
-- LJM
David G. Bell
In article <34214856...@news.erols.com>
mjla...@erols.com "Marilee J. Layman" writes:
> Actually, the thread almost immediately became about your overzealous
> promoting of FLIGHT. I was posting in response to other posts about
> that. This kind of promotion is inappropriate in r.a.sf.fandom anyway
> -- this is about fandom, not about books or authors. So you think
> it's fine that folks pretended to be several different people to make
> FLIGHT look better?
Let me work this out for a moment.
Assume that _some_ of the zealous promotion is by disinterested parties
who have read and enjoyed the book.
Along come a person or persons unknown who exploit the 'screen-name'
feature of AOL to do the same, and do so in a manner clumsy enough to
make obvious that they're pulling the trick.
This immediately raises doubts about any genuine praise, and
incidentally revives the general doubt about the intelligence,
integrity, and social cluefulness of AOL subscribers. In fact, this
deception may even damage sales of the book.
Now, a critic, writing under their own name or a consistent pen-name,
can do as much harm, and get away with it. But, because these unknown
people are obviously hiding their identity, the whole process starts to
look to be on dodgy legal ground. One might imagine a lawyer contacting
the author and offering to bring a case for defamation (on a contingency
fee) against these people who make it look as if the author is an anti-
social low-life who is faking praise for the book.
Unfortunately, this case is likely to fail on some rather obvious
grounds. But the real people, who genuinely like the book, and the AOL
users, who all feel that their collective reputation has been damaged by
this business, would at least avoid the risk of seeing somebody trying
to bting suit against themselves.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Kate Schaefer
In a previous article, notee...@aol.com (NOTeeBecca) says:
[a certain amount of vitriol snipped]
>What's REALLY weird is hating a book you haven't even read (as a couple of
> 'brilliant mensa's' have mentioned in here!!) This sounds "cyclic",
>misdirected and uniform in tone to me! Perhaps you should start your own
>fan club Marilee? <g>
I, myself, do not hate Bonta's book. Were I stuck in a waiting room with
some year-old _People_ magazines and _Flight_, I'd probably read _Flight_
in preference to the magazines.
The tone and content of your postings, however, make me think that I'm
much more likely to find this particular book in such a setting than on
the shelves of anyone whose literary taste I know and respect. If you
like the book and think others would benefit from reading it, say so and
move on, perhaps using language, structure, and punctuation which might
move others to take your opinions seriously. When you encounter a number
of people who don't take your opinions seriously -- and in this case, you
have encountered a large number of such people, I assure you -- then
consider whether there may be a problem with the way in which you've
presented your opinions, or if you've found the wrong audience for your
presentation.
--
Kate Schaefer
ka...@scn.org
Barnaby
Kate Schaefer wrote in article ...
>
> Were I stuck in a waiting room with
>some year-old _People_ magazines and _Flight_, I'd probably read _Flight_
>in preference to the magazines.
This reminds me of my all-time-worst waiting room reading experience. I was
getting my car fixed and didn't have a ride, so I had to wait for a few
hours. The only book in the waiting room? The Reader's Digest condensed
version of By Love Possessed by James Gould Cozzens.
>The tone and content of your postings, however, make me think that I'm
>much more likely to find this particular book in such a setting than on
>the shelves of anyone whose literary taste I know and respect.
LOL
Barnaby Rapoport
Barnaby
Kate Schaefer wrote in article ...I'm not quoting or replying to Kate, but
this bit is now No Longer Available To My Server:
>
>In a previous article, notee...@aol.com (NOTeeBecca) says:
>[a certain amount of vitriol snipped]
>
>>What's REALLY weird is hating a book you haven't even read (as a couple
of
>> 'brilliant mensa's' have mentioned in here!!) This sounds "cyclic",
>>misdirected and uniform in tone to me! Perhaps you should start your
own
>>fan club Marilee? <g>
Attention Teresa! Our quantum brain scanner has detected "cyclic" thoughts!
Report to the conditioning pod for "linearization" immediately!
David E Romm
In article <5vtv9b$1...@news1.panix.com>, T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> beep beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeep nnnnnnnNNNnnnnnNNNnnnnnNNNnnnnnNNNnnnnn
>
> nnnnnNNNnnnnnNNNnnnSPROING doo-wop-doo-wop KA-BLOOEY! chunk doink punt
>
> CRASH clunk clunk cla-clunk clunk oo-ah-ah thump thump thump CLOMP
>
> thump thump ting-tang walla-walla BING BANG ow-ow-ow AH-OOGA AH-OOGA
>
> ouch! sproink bloop fwee-fweee-fweeee-fweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
I took this to the experts, and the Car Guys say: You have an elephant in
your glove compartment.
HTH
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact/Weirdness Unbound
http://www.visi.com/~romm
"It's not a beverage, it's a changeling." -- Odo to Worf, DS9
T Nielsen Hayden
Emshandar <emsh...@aol.com> wrote:
> From: T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com>
> >David Langford <ans...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:19:03 GMT, dave...@bigfoot.com (Dave Locke) wrote
> >> ... or rather, quoted:
> >
> >> >Vanna Bonta, "Flight":
> >> > _______________
> >> > Mendle paused to surmount a ridge of annoyance that was
> >> >densifying. He breathed deep again, stared at the rug. Finally he
> >> >said, "The girl."
> >> > Dr. Kaufkiff was perching over his glasses again, this time in
> >> >an unspoken question.
> >> > Mendle rubbed the inside of his palm with his thumb, alternating
> >> >between each hand as he spoke.
> >
> >> Thog like! Thog want copy!
> >
> >
> >
> >One foresees =Flight= achieving a certain immortality in the SF community.
> >
> >
> However, Some People will NEVER admit that it's worse than THE CLONES or
> WEREWOLF VS. THE VAMPIRE WOMAN (which does have the advantage of being a
> bad English translation of a bad German novelisation of an AWFUL Mexican
> movie...)
Cor! Is it worse than H. C. Turk's =Ether Ore= and =Black Body=?
:tnh
XNimshubur
In article <19970918175...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
book...@aol.com (Book Magic) writes:
> It's like watching people jumping up
>and down on a rose, or trying to spray-paint a butterfly different colors.
>
>I find it particularly disturbing coming from Marilee Layman as the "Co
>Leader" of AOL's "Other Worlds Cafe" as it seems to violate the spirit of
>this forum to bash people that express genuine enthusiasm for a new book
>and writer.
[Jumping up and down on roses whilst geefully wielding sparycan of Day-Glo
Orange paint]
This "forum," rec.arts.sf.fandom, IS NOT ABOUT BOOKS AND WRITERS!
Get it?
Loren MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom on Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:17:24 GMT,
mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) said:
>In any case, with the departure of Analog/Asimov's, the SF area on AOL
>grew up into a large diverse megaforum and things are quite different
>there now. When our forum has a "costume" night (Halloween,
>particularly), I'm the one who can guess who everybody is. Most
>people are not sufficiently aware of their mannerisms in typing,
>spelling, punctuation, word choice, etc., to be able to alter them in
>such a way as to hide their identity from someone who pays attention
>to those details. Changing screennames is easy; changing identity is
>hard.
I agree with this quite a bit. When I was on SFNet (_not_ SFFNet) in
San Francisco, I was consistently able to guess who was behind a new
handle in a very short period of time; as you say, most people aren't
aware of their typing mannerisms. On the other hand, I was able to
create handles for myself which people could *not* guess, because my
typing speed is such that I could see and correct my mistakes fast
enough that I could catch a particular mannerism and type over it
before I pressed the enter key. Actually, even so, I thought it would
be obvious why "I" was, because I was the only one on line who could
type anywhere near that fast -- I could send two or three paragraphs
in the time it took others to send a sentence.
But it is quite true that patterns of typing -- word usage,
typographical errors, word omission, errors in grammar -- are usually
consistent from screen name to screen name. I would think that people
who use multiple names to post would notice this consistency, but
perhaps, as Teresa suggests, they have a tin ear for style.
XNimshubur
In article <19970918083...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
vbonb...@aol.com (Vbonbon123) writes:
You really _are_ an idiot, aren't you?
Some free kl00s for you, too.
You may note that I have a real name. I use this real name. People here
know me. Some have actually _met_ me. I _care_ about the good opinion of
the people here. If I were to _ever_ troll a group, it would _not_ be this one.
Now. Just who the fuck are _you_? Got a name? Didn't think so. It
seems that none of the Vanna Bonta Fan Club do.
<Plonk!>
XNimshubur
In article <19970918051...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
borgf...@aol.com (BorgFreeee) writes:
>DouWickstrom wrote:
><Around these parts we rub blue mud in our navels, and you don't seem to
>like blue mud.>
>
> No, it isn't that. We don't have navels! <g>
>
>
And you don't seem to able to attribute or quote properly, either.
Loren MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom on 19 Sep 1997 01:52:39 GMT, T Nielsen Hayden
<t...@panix.com> said:
>Cor! Is it worse than H. C. Turk's =Ether Ore= and =Black Body=?
H.C. Turk sold *two* novels?
I may kill myself. It seems the only solution.
T Nielsen Hayden
Book Magic <book...@aol.com> wrote:
> Vbonbon123 <vbonb...@aol.com>:
> >> Are you referring to the TYPO? "o" is adjacent to "i" on the
> > keyboard.
> >> Or are you concurring with the point of this person's post, that the
> >> hooplah and case a couple of people are making out of some fan supposedly
> >> posting under two screennames, shall we say, lacks _humor_ and perspective?
> >> I read that about Walt Whitman, in National Geographic. Kudos to him!!
> T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com replies to
> >>Make that: AIRAFLIGHT,
> SAGstarpix,
> NOTeeBecca, and
> Vbonbon123
> are all the same person. I suspect the full list reads:
> >AIRAFLIGHT
> > SAGstarpix
> >NOTeeBecca
> >Vbonbon123
> > VannaBonta.
How the hell did you manage to mess up my format like that? It should run:
Make that: AIRAFLIGHT,
SAGstarpix,
NOTeeBecca, and
Vbonbon123
are all the same person. I suspect the full list reads:
AIRAFLIGHT
SAGstarpix
NOTeeBecca
Vbonbon123
VannaBonta
and, I do not doubt,
Book Magic.
> Interesting theory, Sherlock, but that still leaves hundreds of other
> names I've read posting love for this book, not all from those "nasty
> AOLers" either. Think the conspiracy and delusion might have spread that much?
> Better get on the stick. There are only a couple of you trying to
> spray-paint it black. The people fooled into thinking they really were
> moved to tears or entertained by this is countless now. Louder, louder,
> hurl more mud! Ridicule more fans!
I think readers aren't easily fooled. It's obvious you don't agree. In the
meantime, if you'll be so kind as to mail Dave Langford a copy of =Flight=,
I'm sure he'll be both entertained and moved to tears. You're sure to get
lots of publicity out of it.
::tnh::
::fwa::
Ben Yalow
In article <3421e49a....@news.efn.org>,
lmac...@efn.org (Loren MacGregor) wrote:
>
>In rec.arts.sf.fandom on 19 Sep 1997 01:52:39 GMT, T Nielsen Hayden
><t...@panix.com> said:
>
>>Cor! Is it worse than H. C. Turk's =Ether Ore= and =Black Body=?
>
>H.C. Turk sold *two* novels?
_Ether Ore_ is merely one of the worst books the genre has even seen published
professionally.
_Black Body_ is an Evil book. I kept wanting to wash up after reading any
short passage, and couldn't read more than that.
On the other hand, it was one of the nicest packages I've seen -- somebody
with a brilliant design sense put a lot of effort into that hardcover.
>
>I may kill myself. It seems the only solution.
>
I felt that way after reading _Black Body_. A world in which that book
remains unburned is one that I wasn't sure I wanted to live in.
>-- LJM
>
>Loren MacGregor
>lmac...@efn.org
Ben
------
Ben Yalow yb...@panix.com
Not speaking for anybody
Loren MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom on Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:49:25 GMT,
ans...@cix.co.uk (David Langford) said:
>On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:19:03 GMT, dave...@bigfoot.com (Dave Locke) wrote
>... or rather, quoted:
>
>>Vanna Bonta, "Flight":
>> _______________
>> Mendle paused to surmount a ridge of annoyance that was
>>densifying. He breathed deep again, stared at the rug. Finally he
>>said, "The girl."
>> Dr. Kaufkiff was perching over his glasses again, this time in
>>an unspoken question.
>> Mendle rubbed the inside of his palm with his thumb, alternating
>>between each hand as he spoke.
>
>Thog like! Thog want copy!
There, there, Thog. I know you were lamenting the lack of good
material recently. By the power of my fannish presence, I have
created for you this joy and this marvel. Think nothing of it; I
would hate to see an empty, forlorn Master Class.
XNimshubur
In article <19970918082...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
vbonb...@aol.com (Vbonbon123) writes:
>
>From: xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur)
>
>>Just as I _have_ to read posts about Animorphs and Space Cases, which,
>>BTW, are pretty similar to the contents of the Bonta folders, only
>>generally more coherent.
>>--
>>Doug Wickstrom
>
>
> I don't _think_ so. Not by a long shot.
Dot's right. You don' tink.
XNimshubur
In article <19970918180...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
book...@aol.com (Book Magic) writes:
>T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com> wrote:
>>One foresees =Flight= achieving a certain immortality in the SF community.
>
>Make no mistake, rasf is not ***"the SF community."***
It's a pretty fair approximation. Do you have _any_ idea who these people
here _are_? Or is it that you don't care?
BTW, learn to use your software. You'd be much more coherent. Or maybe not.
Avram Grumer
In article <19970918175...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
book...@aol.com (Book Magic) wrote:
>I have met Vanna Bonta (Westercon), and have heard her speak on two
>occasions. I have also had the great pleasure of working with her. Having
>had this experience, it's particularly amazing to come upon the stragglers
>in this thread going nuts like this. It's like watching people jumping up
>and down on a rose, or trying to spray-paint a butterfly different colors.
That's right, folks. How dare you make fun of Vanna, considering all
she's accomplished. As far as I can tell from her website, she's not just
an author, but a publisher as well.
--
Avram Grumer Home: av...@interport.net
http://www.crossover.com/agrumer/ Work: agr...@crossover.com
In the future, everyone's web server will be down for fifteen minutes.
Loren MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom on Fri, 19 Sep 1997 03:04:35 GMT,
awnb...@panix.com (Michael R Weholt) said:
>In article <19970918175...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> book...@aol.com (Book Magic) wrote:
>>I find it particularly disturbing coming from Marilee Layman as the "Co
>>Leader" of AOL's "Other Worlds Cafe" as it seems to violate the spirit of
>>this forum to bash people that express genuine enthusiasm for a new book
>>and writer.
>
> Oh, lay off Marilee, will you? She happens to be a known and
>appreciated member of this little community. You aren't. I know it
>fits the delusion to believe that all of this is the Work of the Evil
>Marilee, but it isn't.
Moreover, we are not "bashing" people who "express genuine enthusiasm
for a new book and writer," but rather, being bashed because we
*aren't* expressing genuine etc.
XNimshubur
In article <19970918170...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
book...@aol.com (Book Magic) writes:
>
>
>Vbonbon123 <vbonb...@aol.com>:
>>> Are you referring to the TYPO? "o" is adjacent to "i" on the
>> keyboard.
>>> Or are you concurring with the point of this person's post, that the
>>> hooplah and case a couple of people are making out of some fan supposedly
>>> posting under two screennames, shall we say, lacks _humor_ and
>perspective?
>>> I read that about Walt Whitman, in National Geographic. Kudos to him!!
>
>
>T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com replies to
>>>Make that: AIRAFLIGHT,
> SAGstarpix,
> NOTeeBecca, and
> Vbonbon123
> are all the same person. I suspect the full list reads:
> >AIRAFLIGHT
> > SAGstarpix
> >NOTeeBecca
> >Vbonbon123
> > VannaBonta.
>
> Interesting theory, Sherlock, but that still leaves hundreds of other
>names I've read posting love for this book, not all from those "nasty
>AOLers" either. Think the conspiracy and delusion might have spread that
>much?
And where did you read these phantom posts. Certainly not _here_.
>
>Better get on the stick. There are only a couple of you trying to
>spray-paint it black. The people fooled into thinking they really were
>moved to tears or entertained by this is countless now. Louder, louder,
>hurl more mud! Ridicule more fans!
>
The VB booster club does an excellent job on it's own. It needs no help
from us.
Ray Radlein
Loren MacGregor wrote:
>
> Gary, have you been playing with your Mac programs on line again?
>
> I am rather stunned that, in an era when people are seriously
> working on creation of AI programs, someone took the time out
> to create an Artificial Unintelligibility program.
"Artificial Inellegance," I've always called it.
- Ray R.
--
*********************************************************************
"Well, before my sword can pass all the way through your neck, it has
to pass *half way* through your neck. But before it can do *that*, it
has to first pass *one-fourth* of the way through your neck. And
before it can do *that*...." - Zeno, Warrior Princess
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
*********************************************************************
Emshandar
From: T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com>
>Emshandar <emsh...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> From: T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com>
>
>> >David Langford <ans...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:19:03 GMT, dave...@bigfoot.com (Dave Locke)
>wrote
>> >> ... or rather, quoted:
>> >
>> >> >Vanna Bonta, "Flight":
>> >> > _______________
>> >> > Mendle paused to surmount a ridge of annoyance that was
>> >> >densifying. He breathed deep again, stared at the rug. Finally he
>> >> >said, "The girl."
>> >> > Dr. Kaufkiff was perching over his glasses again, this time in
>> >> >an unspoken question.
>> >> > Mendle rubbed the inside of his palm with his thumb, alternating
>> >> >between each hand as he spoke.
>> >
>> >> Thog like! Thog want copy!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >One foresees =Flight= achieving a certain immortality in the SF community.
>> >
>> >
>
>> However, Some People will NEVER admit that it's worse than THE CLONES or
>> WEREWOLF VS. THE VAMPIRE WOMAN (which does have the advantage of being a
>> bad English translation of a bad German novelisation of an AWFUL Mexican
>> movie...)
>
>Cor! Is it worse than H. C. Turk's =Ether Ore= and =Black Body=?
Dunno -- but they sure SOUND like they'd be in the running...
Emshandar
From: T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com>
>I think readers aren't easily fooled. It's obvious you don't agree. In the
>meantime, if you'll be so kind as to mail Dave Langford a copy of =Flight=,
>I'm sure he'll be both entertained and moved to tears. You're sure to get
>lots of publicity out of it.
Don't do it BookMagic! It's a Trick!!
Emshandar
From: db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk ("David G. Bell")
>Along come a person or persons unknown who exploit the 'screen-name'
>feature of AOL to do the same, and do so in a manner clumsy enough to
>make obvious that they're pulling the trick.
>
>This immediately raises doubts about any genuine praise, and
>incidentally revives the general doubt about the intelligence,
>integrity, and social cluefulness of AOL subscribers. In fact, this
>deception may even damage sales of the book.
>
>Now, a critic, writing under their own name or a consistent pen-name,
>can do as much harm, and get away with it. But, because these unknown
>people are obviously hiding their identity, the whole process starts to
>look to be on dodgy legal ground. One might imagine a lawyer contacting
>the author and offering to bring a case for defamation (on a contingency
>fee) against these people who make it look as if the author is an anti-
>social low-life who is faking praise for the book.
Please note the (actually rather plausible) theory that the multiple
screen names all belong to one person whose initials are V.B....
--
mike weber <emsh...@aol.com>
Emshandar
From: av...@interport.net (Avram Grumer)
>That's right, folks. How dare you make fun of Vanna, considering all
>she's accomplished. As far as I can tell from her website, she's not just
>an author, but a publisher as well.
I'd been meaning to ask how this apparent pile of steaming cow-flop got
published...
--
mike weber <emsh...@aol.com>
Emshandar
From: book...@aol.com (Book Magic)
>jame...@aol.com (JamesAB5)
> When people confuse reality with fiction,
>something is wrong.
>> FLIGHT may be a good book, it may even have a message, but thinking that
>>it can enhance your life, give insights to the universe, or help you reach
>>new levels of awareness is just plain wrong.
>
> emsh...@aol.com (Emshandar) replies:
> >Stranger in a Strange Land comes to mind in this context...
>
>Interesting you should mention that. It's unforgivable among certain
>"want to get published" writers that Vanna Bonta was compared to Robert
>Heinlein in a major trade literary review. Many reviews are posted on a
>fan website for the book, maintained by Butch and Scott (AIRAFLIGHTaol.com).
Let's get one thing straight here -- i was NOT comparing Vanna Bonta
(whatever a "Vanna Bonta" IS when it's up and dressed) to Heinlein in any
way shape or form, having never read Bonta to know whether there could
POSSIBLY be any reality to such a comparison (tho intuition and a personal
BS detector suggest NOT, after reading all of these posts).
What i WAS doing was expanding on JamesAB5's statements by suggesting
STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND as an example of a book that was below-par
(compared to RAH's usual work -- up to that time, "after" is another
subject entirely) and, in fact, didn't even make sense internally, but was
uncritically adopted by a large fringe audience (most of whom had no idea
or basis for comparison to know what "good" or "bad" SF was or could be).
A fringe audience who, with an almost religious fervour, attempted to live
the totally-bogus lifestyle Heinlein created for the book (which is SO
bogus that one of his own viewpoint characters sees through it...)
Your comments, your attitudes as expressed in posts, and your personal ad
hominem attacks on anyone who dares to suggest that, just possibly, the
Empress is standing around in her bare nakeds ((thank you, W.Kelly)), plus
an apparent predeliction on your part for arguments built around straw men
and/or specious comparisons and unsupported assertions lead me to suspect
that, indeed, as has been asserted in this newsgroup -- and confirmed by
that ghod-awful excerpt -- this book is almost certainly BEYOND GHOD-AWFUL.
Do NOT quote me in support of your position. I am not -- possibly you've
noticed that?
((Quoting me in support of this position reminds me of the time the Reagan
campaign [i believe it was] told Springsteen that they wanted to use "Born
in the USA" in their campaign ads. In his letter refusing permission,
Brooce asked them if they had listened to any more of the lyric than the
first line of the chorus...))
--
mike weber <emsh...@aol.com>
AIRAFLIGHT
>In article <19970918180...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
>>
>
From: xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur)
>It's a pretty fair approximation. Do you have _any_ idea who these people
>here _are_? Or is it that you don't care?
I do care and did care, Doug. That's why I posted here in the first
place. I thought they were friends. ::hanging head and walking away
sadly::
* * F LIGHT * * *
Part human Part cosmic
liberating the Earth from the grips of Zzzz Zone *
************Aira Flight**************
http://members.aol.com/airaflight
Scott fan club & earth coordinator
FLIGHT
Alison Scott
book...@aol.com (Book Magic) wrote:
> Interesting theory, Sherlock, but that still leaves hundreds of other
>names I've read posting love for this book, not all from those "nasty
>AOLers" either. Think the conspiracy and delusion might have spread that much?
OK, so Vanna Bonta has a Whole Bunch of "10 hours free on AOL" CDs.
--
Alison Scott ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk
Now with added cobwebs: www.fuggles.demon.co.uk
AIRAFLIGHT
Vlma...@efn.org (Loren MacGregor):
>Moreover, we are not "bashing" people who "express genuine enthusiasm
>for a new book and writer," but rather, being bashed because we
>*aren't* expressing genuine etc.
>
>-- LJM
Come on, these statements ("lay off!" & "we are not 'bashing'")
look pretty silly with all of you holding spray paint cans in hand (I
liked that EJ!) If only it WERE as asimple as your "not expressing
genuine etc" I post something at Chasman's suggestion for those of us who
are interested and you and afew others descend like locusts. Obviously
something fascinates you about it, if it's not genuine enthusiasm, it's
genuine obsession.
"Flight"t isn't a "hardware" story. Bonta's fans in the SF community are
mostly people into and up on = modern science=, i.e. quantum theory &
quantum physics. The world of science has entered into the realm of theory,
and it might be more interesting to dsicuss the evolution of the genre from
"empirical provable scientific premise" to "quantum theory". Many of the
people who post in Fictional Realm author Spotlights Flight Board are
physicists, physics students, etc. These are the posts that
xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur) refers to as "Space Case". (Sure now, go
pick some inane line said among friends out of context, and post it here
for a good ' ho ho ho').
To reply to one of many of Ms. Layman's and Doug's false accusations that
I'm charging people for the fan club, for the record: it's free. (Nah,
please don't go there, that you wouldn't join even if it's free. Let's
stop children.)
Arthur Hlavaty
AIRAFLIGHT (airaf...@aol.com) wrote:
: Vlma...@efn.org (Loren MacGregor):
: >Moreover, we are not "bashing" people who "express genuine enthusiasm
: >for a new book and writer," but rather, being bashed because we
: >*aren't* expressing genuine etc.
: >
: >-- LJM
: Come on, these statements ("lay off!" & "we are not 'bashing'")
: look pretty silly with all of you holding spray paint cans in hand (I
: liked that EJ!) If only it WERE as asimple as your "not expressing
: genuine etc"
You think it's _easy_to type while holding a spray can?
: I post something at Chasman's suggestion for those of us who
: are interested and you and afew others descend like locusts. Obviously
: something fascinates you about it, if it's not genuine enthusiasm, it's
: genuine obsession.
: "Flight"t isn't a "hardware" story. Bonta's fans in the SF community are
: mostly people into and up on = modern science=, i.e. quantum theory &
: quantum physics. The world of science has entered into the realm of theory,
: and it might be more interesting to dsicuss the evolution of the genre from
: "empirical provable scientific premise" to "quantum theory". Many of the
: people who post in Fictional Realm author Spotlights Flight Board are
: physicists, physics students, etc. These are the posts that
: xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur) refers to as "Space Case". (Sure now, go
: pick some inane line said among friends out of context, and post it here
: for a good ' ho ho ho').
Maybe Vanna Bonta writes about this new-fangled "quantum theory" stuff,
but good old Newtonian physics is good enough for the rest of the field.
: To reply to one of many of Ms. Layman's and Doug's false accusations that
: I'm charging people for the fan club, for the record: it's free. (Nah,
: please don't go there, that you wouldn't join even if it's free. Let's
: stop children.)
--
Arthur D. Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius In Wile E. We Trust
\\\ E-zine available on request. ///
Arthur Hlavaty
AIRAFLIGHT (airaf...@aol.com) wrote:
: >From: xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur)
: >>>Just as I _have_ to read posts about Animorphs and Space Cases, which,
: >>>BTW, are pretty similar to the contents of the Bonta folders, only
: >>>generally more coherent.
: >>>--
: >>>Doug Wickstrom
: >>
: Doug, I have you and the rest of the folks here to thank. Damn that Vanna
: Bonta. She's a stinking writer,an illiterate idiot, who made me up, made
: everyone up, (you better check she might have made you up too), just like
: in the book, damn it, I knew it. All that intertwining reality,
: "manifesting" and all that garbage, spilling out into the real world, then
: the real world only being an illusion of some other dimension, something
: was bugging me I tell you. Now I know. Thanks to you guys. I don't exist.
: I'm an "alternative personality." A stroke of the pen. A whim of some
: demented creton. Have to admit, this has been fun. But what now? Should
: I fall to my knees in supplication. Is this really Vanna Bonta reading all
: of this, and writing the replies? What would you have me do to continue?
: I've kind of liked this, existing and all. These other people, you made me
: believe they were all real too. The reviews, everything. I took a lot of
: heat for you. Damn, I came in here with an asbestos suit to let people know
: what was coming up next.
: Okay everybody. I know it. YOU CAN'T FOOL ME.
: It's you Vanna! Vanna come out here this instant. She TOLD me to say
: this, right now, it's HER, it's HER. ::dropping head and covering face
: with hands:: ::removing hand, feebly struggling to add :: : We
: HAVE been known to get a life of our own, you know....you dirty rotten
: stinking poet excuse for a f---ing artist!
So _that's_ what Phil Dick's been doing since he died.
ANNEMAR221
airaf...@aol.com (airaflight) rants
>>Doug, I have you and the rest of the folks here to thank. Damn that Vanna
>Bonta. She's a stinking writer,an illiterate idiot, who made me up, made
everyone up, (you better check she might have made you up too), just like
in the book, damn it, I knew it. All that intertwining reality,
"manifesting" and all that garbage, spilling out into the real world, then
the real world only being an illusion of some other dimension, something
was bugging me I tell you. Now I know. Thanks to you guys. I don't exist.
I'm an "alternative personality." A stroke of the pen. A whim of some
demented creton. Have to admit, this has been fun. But what now? Should
I fall to my knees in supplication. Is this really Vanna Bonta reading all
of this, and writing the replies? What would you have me do to continue?
I've kind of liked this, existing and all. These other people, you made me
believe they were all real too. The reviews, everything. I took a lot of
heat for you. Damn, I came in here with an asbestos suit to let people know
what was coming up next.
Okay everybody. I know it. YOU CAN'T FOOL ME.
It's you Vanna! Vanna come out here this instant. She TOLD me to say
this, right now, it's HER, it's HER. ::dropping head and covering face
with hands:: ::removing hand, feebly struggling to add :: : We
HAVE been known to get a life of our own, you know....you dirty rotten
stinking poet excuse for a f---ing artist!
* * F LIGHT * * *
Part human Part cosmic
liberating the Earth from the grips of Zzzz Zone *
************Aira Flight**************
http://members.aol.com/airaflight
Scott fan club & earth coordinator
FLIGHT<<<
:D
I have not seen so many people get so excited about something in a long time!
I guess this is a book you either love or hate. I'm guilty. I love this
book. Best thing I've read in a long time.
Spare the flames and insults about my intelligence or moral fiber, please.
It's too painful to watch your attempts to modify people's opinions by
attacking them.
::Schroedenger's hydrogen atom: A pattern of probability::
: . ..... One electron is everywhere in the atom ....
.:
ANNEMAR221
>>Tell her to stay away, too. She's as much an idiot and as poor a
writer as her fans are.
---
>>Dave | dave...@bigfoot.com
"I'm astounded by people who want to 'know' the universe when it's
hard enough to find your way around Chinatown." - Woody Allen
I'm going to tell her to wear garlic around her neck, carry a wooden stake
and a pack a silver bullet ; )
John Richards
AIRAFLIGHT wrote:
> The world of science has entered into the realm of theory,
Hmm, I wasn't aware that it had ever left it.
--
JFW Richards South Hants Science Fiction Group
Portsmouth, Hants 2nd and 4th Tuesdays
England. UK. The Magpie, Fratton Road, Portsmouth
It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it is.
If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's. It isn't
our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
---Oxford University Press, Edpress News
ANNEMAR221
I'd been meaning to ask how this apparent pile of steaming cow-flop got
published...
-- mike weber <emsh...@aol.com>
Good boy, Mike. You had the honesty to qualify your witty original review
("steaming cow-flop") with "apparent". Admit it. You don't know first hand.
That could be why you all need some fresh air, new ideas. You've been too
symbiotic in your opinions, let alone story ideas. Stale. You may "hate
and villify Bonta and her fans" but, admit it, eh? ;) It's been a
thrill in this hum drum same ol, hasn't it. Aw, admit it, you might even
like her a little. Poor lass. G'day.
P Nielsen Hayden
In article <3421e49a....@news.efn.org>, lmac...@efn.org wrote:
>
>In rec.arts.sf.fandom on 19 Sep 1997 01:52:39 GMT, T Nielsen Hayden
><t...@panix.com> said:
>
>>Cor! Is it worse than H. C. Turk's =Ether Ore= and =Black Body=?
>
>H.C. Turk sold *two* novels?
>
>I may kill myself. It seems the only solution.
One ("Ether Ore") to Tor via Ben Bova, for his "Ben Bova Presents" line, which
also published some good books. And a second novel to Villard, a literary
imprint of Random House. Nothing, to my knowledge, in the last eight years.
One understands the appeal of your contemplated solution.
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
Arthur Hlavaty
AIRAFLIGHT (airaf...@aol.com) wrote:
: Book Magic <book...@aol.com> wrote:
: >> Interesting theory, Sherlock, but that still leaves hundreds of other
: >> names I've read posting love for this book, not all from those "nasty
: >> AOLers" either. Think the conspiracy and delusion might have spread that
: >much?
: >
: >> Better get on the stick. There are only a couple of you trying to
: >> spray-paint it black. The people fooled into thinking they really were
: moved to tears or entertained by this is countless now. Louder, louder,
: >> hurl more mud! Ridicule more fans!
: >
: Book. EJ! I knew it. You're not real. Neither am I. It's just like in
: the book. We've been created. No! How do we know that EVERY ONE IN HERE
: ISN'T VANNA BONTA? Yes, that's it. That's IT! Not only everyone in
: this thread, but, maybe the newsgroup, the server, the ...Hollywood? No!
: New York too?
: Tell me it isn't true. I thought this was MY life.
: All these people, they're just pretending. That's it. It's her. Even the
: ones hating her. It's HER. The damn writer. She probably wrote in the
: reviews, the fans, she made it all up. She made me up. Put me here to get
: crapped on. EJ, tell me it isn't so. Anyone out there? anyone out there
: who is ------real????????????
Okay, all the folks on the FLIGHT deck are real, and all your enemies are
fake. You can tell by those ridiculous names like emshandar, xnimshibur,
and hlavaty.
T Nielsen Hayden
ANNEMAR221 <annem...@aol.com> wrote:
> I'd been meaning to ask how this apparent pile of steaming cow-flop got
> published...
> -- mike weber <emsh...@aol.com>
> Good boy, Mike. You had the honesty to qualify your witty original review
> ("steaming cow-flop") with "apparent". Admit it. You don't know first hand.
> That could be why you all need some fresh air, new ideas. You've been too
> symbiotic in your opinions, let alone story ideas. Stale. You may "hate
> and villify Bonta and her fans" but, admit it, eh? ;) It's been a
> thrill in this hum drum same ol, hasn't it. Aw, admit it, you might even
> like her a little. Poor lass. G'day.
Make that: AIRAFLIGHT
SAGstarpix
NOTeeBecca
Vbonbon123
VannaBonta
Book Magic
ANNEMAR221 and still counting...
::tnh::
::fwa::
ANNEMAR221
>>In article <19970917100...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>notee...@aol.com
>says...
>>
>> mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman): <<The forum for which I was
>>volunteering then is no
>>longer on AOL, so I haven't had to read any posts about Bonta for a
>>while other than these here in rasf. <<
>>
>> You haven't HAD to read any posts about Bonta???
>
>Well, yes. If you're moderating a forum, you are pretty much obliged
>to read it.
borgf...@aol.com (BorgFreeee)-
She also said "other than these here in rasf"
...does she *have * to read these here? I mean, she's not moderating
here, is she?
There is a little button, "Mark Read", which would, with the click of a
mouse, avoid reading posts about "the Empress" or her god-awful book. For
the anathema she is purported as being, Bonta evidently holds quite a bit
of fascination. (Because she's so terrible, of course, of course...)
T Nielsen Hayden
Barnaby <hra...@ibm.net> wrote:
> Kate Schaefer wrote in article ...I'm not quoting or replying to Kate, but
> this bit is now No Longer Available To My Server:
> >
> >In a previous article, notee...@aol.com (NOTeeBecca) says:
> >[a certain amount of vitriol snipped]
> >
> >>What's REALLY weird is hating a book you haven't even read (as a couple
> of
> >> 'brilliant mensa's' have mentioned in here!!) This sounds "cyclic",
> >>misdirected and uniform in tone to me! Perhaps you should start your
> own
> >>fan club Marilee? <g>
> Attention Teresa! Our quantum brain scanner has detected "cyclic" thoughts!
> Report to the conditioning pod for "linearization" immediately!
beep beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeep nnnnnnnNNNnnnnnNNNnnnnnNNNnnnnnNNNnnnnn
nnnnnNNNnnnnnNNNnnnSPROING doo-wop-doo-wop KA-BLOOEY! chunk doink punt
CRASH clunk clunk cla-clunk clunk oo-ah-ah thump thump thump CLOMP
thump thump ting-tang walla-walla BING BANG ow-ow-ow AH-OOGA AH-OOGA
ouch! sproink bloop fwee-fweee-fweeee-fweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
:tnh
T Nielsen Hayden
AIRAFLIGHT <airaf...@aol.com> wrote:
> >In article <19970918180...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> >book...@aol.com (Book Magic) writes:
> >
> >>T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>>One foresees =Flight= achieving a certain immortality in the SF community.
> >>
> >>Make no mistake, rasf is not ***"the SF community."***
> >
> From: xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur)
> >It's a pretty fair approximation. Do you have _any_ idea who these people
> >here _are_? Or is it that you don't care?
> I do care and did care, Doug. That's why I posted here in the first
> place. I thought they were friends. ::hanging head and walking away
> sadly::
You forgot to put in the "big sad eyes" and "quivering lower lip" emoticons.
::tnh::
::fwa::
T Nielsen Hayden
Arthur Hlavaty <hla...@panix.com> wrote:
> So _that's_ what Phil Dick's been doing since he died.
Now they're forevermore going to claim that a major reviewer compared Vanna
Bonta to PKD.
::tnh::
::fwa::
AIRAFLIGHT
emsh...@aol.com (Emshandar)
in comment
>From: book...@aol.com (Book Magic)
>
>>Vbonbon123 <vbonb...@aol.com>:
>>>> Are you referring to the TYPO? "o" is adjacent to "i" on the
>>> keyboard.
>>>> Or are you concurring with the point of this person's post, that the
>>>> hooplah and case a couple of people are making out of some fan supposedly
>
>>>> posting under two screennames, shall we say, lacks _humor_ and
>>perspective?
>>>> I read that about Walt Whitman, in National Geographic. Kudos to him!!
>>
>>
>>T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com replies to
>>>>Make that: AIRAFLIGHT,
>> SAGstarpix,
>> NOTeeBecca, and
>> Vbonbon123
>> are all the same person. I suspect the full list reads:
>> >AIRAFLIGHT
>> > SAGstarpix
>> >NOTeeBecca
>> >Vbonbon123
>> > VannaBonta.
>>
>> Interesting theory, Sherlock, but that still leaves hundreds of other
>>names I've read posting love for this book, not all from those "nasty
>>AOLers" either. Think the conspiracy and delusion might have spread that
>>much?
>>
>>Better get on the stick. There are only a couple of you trying to
>>spray-paint it black. The people fooled into thinking they really were
>>moved to tears or entertained by this is countless now. Louder, louder,
>>hurl more mud! Ridicule more fans!
emsh...@aol.com (Emshandar)
in comment
>Damn! How dare we make fun of der feuhrer!?!
>
Yeah. What a dolt, and I thought this was one newsgroup where fandom
lived. Seems like a regime.
Emshandar
From: vbonb...@aol.com (Vbonbon123)
>>From: xnims...@aol.com (XNimshubur)
>>Date: 9 Sep 1997 20:35:06 GMT
>>
>>Does anyone know what this FLIGHT thingamabob is?
>>
>
>>Doug Wickstrom
>
>It would seem, by your question at the beginning of this thread, that you
>didn't know.
>
>Your subsequent posts evidence it to be just a troll & set up for some
>bad publicity by you & pals.
>
>Somehow, the tone is reminiscent of the scene in the Wizard of Oz when
>water gets on the witch.
>
>
Huh?
AIRAFLIGHT
>> T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com replies to
>> >>Make that: AIRAFLIGHT,
>> SAGstarpix,
>> NOTeeBecca, and
>> Vbonbon123
>> are all the same person. I suspect the full list reads:
>> >AIRAFLIGHT
>> > SAGstarpix
>> >NOTeeBecca
>> >Vbonbon123
>> > VannaBonta.
>
>
>Make that: AIRAFLIGHT,
> SAGstarpix,
> NOTeeBecca, and
> Vbonbon123
>
> are all the same person. I suspect the full list reads:
>
> AIRAFLIGHT
> SAGstarpix
> NOTeeBecca
> Vbonbon123
> VannaBonta
> Book Magic.
>
Book Magic <book...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Interesting theory, Sherlock, but that still leaves hundreds of other
>> names I've read posting love for this book, not all from those "nasty
>> AOLers" either. Think the conspiracy and delusion might have spread that
>much?
>
>> Better get on the stick. There are only a couple of you trying to
>> spray-paint it black. The people fooled into thinking they really were
moved to tears or entertained by this is countless now. Louder, louder,
>> hurl more mud! Ridicule more fans!
>
Book. EJ! I knew it. You're not real. Neither am I. It's just like in
the book. We've been created. No! How do we know that EVERY ONE IN HERE
ISN'T VANNA BONTA? Yes, that's it. That's IT! Not only everyone in
this thread, but, maybe the newsgroup, the server, the ...Hollywood? No!
New York too?
Tell me it isn't true. I thought this was MY life.
All these people, they're just pretending. That's it. It's her. Even the
ones hating her. It's HER. The damn writer. She probably wrote in the
reviews, the fans, she made it all up. She made me up. Put me here to get
crapped on. EJ, tell me it isn't so. Anyone out there? anyone out there
who is ------real????????????
Barnaby
P Nielsen Hayden wrote in article <5vtmk7$s...@news1.panix.com>...
>In article <3421e49a....@news.efn.org>, lmac...@efn.org wrote:
>>H.C. Turk sold *two* novels?
>>
>>I may kill myself. It seems the only solution.
>
>One ("Ether Ore") to Tor via Ben Bova, for his "Ben Bova Presents" line,
which
>also published some good books.
Yes. All praise to "Ben Bova Presents" for publishing Cortez on Jupiter and
High Aztech by Ernest Hogan.
Barnaby Rapoport