A Meta Thought about G*ne, and Vanna Bonta too
Brenda
that marketing is not rational. People
do not always buy things just because it
makes sense. They also make a decision
not to buy things, upon grounds that are
not coldly logical. (This is the reason
why marketeers and advertising execs
spend days tinkering with the color on
detergent boxes.)
It is entirely possible to inspire
people with a burning and unswerving
desire never to buy your product. The
way to do this is traditionally by
spamming, but starting flamewars, being
horridly obnoxious, and in general
acting like a dickweed also works fine.
You don't even have to be on line --
have a look at the latest issue of
NEWSWEEK for the review of Joe
Esterhazy's latest novel about Bill
Clinton. The author sounds so
repellent, I won't touch his book
without gloves. Or consider the fate of
1945 -- Newt Gingrich may be a great
novelist, but I will always pass his
book by.
Once you ignite this irrational
prejudice, it is difficult to change.
(Will anyone ever believe OJ Simpson,
ever again? Sure, and the real killer
of Nicole must be hiding out at golf
clubhouses.) If you wish to sell your
product, it is therefore only sensible
to not force people to loathe and abhor
you.
But, you say, my book is so dynamite,
even my admittedly difficult personality
should not dim its glory. (And look at
other notable curmudgeons in the field.
Albert Terhune used to sic his collies
on visitors; Harlan Ellison is
notoriously volatile. If they can do it,
I can do it.) Will you deliberately pass
up on my glorious novel, simply because
I'm a raging prick?
Surely, says I. Remember, it's not
rational. Furthermore, there are an
awful lot of mid-tier and lower-level
books out there. I don't need you.
There are plenty more authors out there
just like you, only they haven't drawn
my attention in a negative way and
become a stench in the nostrils.
The sales are not yours to win. They're
yours to lose. We vote with our
dollars. A word to the wise.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough, author of DOORS OF
DEATH AND LIFE
From Tor Books in May 2000
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Marilee J. Layman
>The sales are not yours to win. They're
>yours to lose. We vote with our
>dollars. A word to the wise.
Speaking of which, the SFBC version of your Suburban Gods duo arrived
yesterday.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc
Ayende Rahien
> even my admittedly difficult personality
> should not dim its glory. (And look at
> other notable curmudgeons in the field.
> Albert Terhune used to sic his collies
> on visitors; Harlan Ellison is
> notoriously volatile. If they can do it,
> I can do it.) Will you deliberately pass
> up on my glorious novel, simply because
> I'm a raging prick?
Exactly how many abnoxious people do you know that managed to be famous
writers while being abnoxious all the way?
Once you are famous, you *may* be able to get away with it, but not when you
are starting. And even famous writers can lose a lot of their audiance
because they say things that their fans don't like.
> Surely, says I. Remember, it's not
> rational. Furthermore, there are an
> awful lot of mid-tier and lower-level
> books out there. I don't need you.
> There are plenty more authors out there
> just like you, only they haven't drawn
> my attention in a negative way and
> become a stench in the nostrils.
>
> The sales are not yours to win. They're
> yours to lose. We vote with our
> dollars. A word to the wise.
Um, Brenda, you've read and responded to G*ne before, I think you should
consider avoiding phrases such as "A word to the wise"
Brenda
Marilee J. Layman wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:45:57 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >The sales are not yours to win. They're
> >yours to lose. We vote with our
> >dollars. A word to the wise.
>
> Speaking of which, the SFBC version of your Suburban Gods duo arrived
> yesterday.
>
Argh, really?!? I haven't seen it! Perhaps someday the unfortunate and
miserable author will lay eyes on a copy. I thought it wasn't due out
for ages!
Thomas Womack
> Or consider the fate of
> 1945 -- Newt Gingrich may be a great
> novelist, but I will always pass his
> book by.
He's not a great novelist - the book feels like mediocre Harry Turtledove.
Though I suppose the reputation of Newt Gingrich is less significant if I'm
3000 miles East of his sphere of influence, and reading the book after his
influence has flamed and faded and is gone.
Tom
James Nicoll
William Forschen's. My god, his Magic: The Addiction book was bad.
--
"Sure, Len, just because something is old doesn't mean it's
engraved in stone. We know a lot more about entertainment now than they
did back then. Look at Lawrence Olivier! You think he was in any of
Shakespeare's original productions? No! They added him years later!"
Cornell
>way to do this is traditionally by
>spamming, but starting flamewars, being
>horridly obnoxious, and in general
>acting like a dickweed also works fine.
As you've included Bonta in this post I'd like you to direct me to instances of
the beefs you state. Speaking of marketing, would you agree that mudslinging
other writers does not reflect well?
>Surely, says I. Remember, it's not
>rational. Furthermore, there are an
>awful lot of mid-tier and lower-level
>books out there. I don't need you.
>There are plenty more authors out there
>just like you, only they haven't drawn
>my attention in a negative way and
>become a stench in the nostrils.
>
>The sales are not yours to win. They're
>yours to lose. We vote with our
>dollars. A word to the wise.
>
>
>Brenda
>
>
>--
>---------
>Brenda W. Clough, author of DOORS OF
>DEATH AND LIFE
>From Tor Books in May 2000
>http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda
>
Not rational, I agree with you. Good thing you're not the only one buying books
out there. Vanna Bonta and Newt Gingrich. :) Congratulations on your novel and
let's hope others buy or don't buy you for the work not your personality.
John Kensmark
>
> In article <8l2i45$4r4$6...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> Thomas Womack <t...@womack.net> wrote:
>> "Brenda" <clo...@erols.com> wrote
>>
>>> Or consider the fate of
>>> 1945 -- Newt Gingrich may be a great
>>> novelist, but I will always pass his
>>> book by.
>>
>> He's not a great novelist - the book feels like mediocre
>> Harry Turtledove. Though I suppose the reputation of Newt
>> Gingrich is less significant if I'm 3000 miles East of his
>> sphere of influence, and reading the book after his influence
>> has flamed and faded and is gone.
>>
> The name that kept me away from 1945 wasn't
> Gingrinch's but William Forschen's. My god, his Magic: The
> Addiction book was bad.
Gingrich's non-fiction is more entertaining, I think. He explains
that women have a place in the military (despite their little
problem of monthly "infections") because they're good at sitting in
one place for a long time, whereas, he explains, men have an urge to
go hunt giraffes.
He also talks about his support for the space program, which is
apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with a
tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
John Kensmark
kensmark#hotmail.com
Dogma does not mean the absence of thought, but the end of thought.
-- Chesterton
John Hua
Ayende Rahien <Aye...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:8l1qi3$6ir$1...@feedme.surfree.net.il...
> > Gingrich's non-fiction is more entertaining, I think. He explains
> > that women have a place in the military (despite their little
> > problem of monthly "infections") because they're good at sitting in
> > one place for a long time, whereas, he explains, men have an urge to
> > go hunt giraffes.
>
Yes, Giraffes!! No, I'm kinda miffed that he bases his opinion on a typical
stereo-type of gender differences;basically, men - hunters, women-
gatherers. That's a load of crap. Wanna see men sitting still? Go to a
modern day office, and see a bunch of people sitting in their cubes working
all day. Wanna see women moving around? Same office, about the same amount
of men AND women would do the prairie dog (you know, pop their head above
the cubes and look around for friends to chitter to).
Men hunting giraffes, what a git.
>
> > He also talks about his support for the space program, which is
> > apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with a
> > tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
>
> Okay, this I can understand. Zero G sex is certainly going to be worth its
> while (do you know if anyone tried it?)
Yep, NASA, if you believe the rumors and Conen O'Brien. I don't remember
the results of the experiements, but I do remember a lot of the positions
involved big rubberbands.
John
Brenda
Cornell wrote:
> >The
> >way to do this is traditionally by
> >spamming, but starting flamewars, being
> >horridly obnoxious, and in general
> >acting like a dickweed also works fine.
>
> As you've included Bonta in this post I'd like you to direct me to instances of
> the beefs you state. Speaking of marketing, would you agree that mudslinging
> other writers does not reflect well?
>
<sigh> You don't get it. Once more into the breach, dear friends, and this time
I'll be more obvious.
Dear Cornell, I am offering you an opportunity. We stand here, ready to be
persuaded. Do so. Don't yap about flamewars of the past, idiocies of the present,
or moronities yet unborn in future time. Speak now, of Vanna Bonta and her work.
Tell us all about it, how wonderful it is. Kindle in us the desire. Describe the
neatnesses of the work in such glowing and intelligent terms that we can't wait to
read the book. (You think it cannot be done? Go down to rec.arts.sf.written, and
wade through the thousands of messages about Lois McMaster Bujold's books, or Neal
Stephenson.) Keep it brief, because long screens full of stuff are offputting;
keep it sweet, because you catch more flies with sugar than honey; keep it on the
subject, because we don't care about side issues.
I lead you to the altar, swept and garnished, where I've laid out the kindling and
the sacrifice and the drink offering. Put your hands on the cold stone, and do it
now. Call down the fire from heaven, because love is a fire. Pass it from your
burning heart to ours, because the ardent heart can only catch love by contagion,
from candle to candle in the dark.
Call down the divine fire, and we will hail you as a true prophet of your god. Or
don't, and let your diety be revealed as a false baal, mere stone and wood.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough, author of DOORS OF DEATH AND LIFE
From Tor Books in May 2000
Richard Horton
On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:25:18 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
>Marilee J. Layman wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:45:57 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The sales are not yours to win. They're
>> >yours to lose. We vote with our
>> >dollars. A word to the wise.
>>
>> Speaking of which, the SFBC version of your Suburban Gods duo arrived
>> yesterday.
>>
>
>Argh, really?!? I haven't seen it! Perhaps someday the unfortunate and
>miserable author will lay eyes on a copy. I thought it wasn't due out
>for ages!
Mine came, too. Yesterday as well.
I think the cover is derived from the _How Like a God_ cover.
--
Rich Horton | Stable Email: mailto://richard...@sff.net
Home Page: http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton
Also visit SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com) and Tangent Online (http://www.sfsite.com/tangent)
Ayende Rahien
> that women have a place in the military (despite their little
> problem of monthly "infections") because they're good at sitting in
> one place for a long time, whereas, he explains, men have an urge to
> go hunt giraffes.
Giraffes???
> He also talks about his support for the space program, which is
> apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with a
> tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
Okay, this I can understand. Zero G sex is certainly going to be worth its
while (do you know if anyone tried it?)
But, somehow, although it goes against most of what I believe in, I feel
that there other reasons to get to space than to have zero g sex.
Jim Bailey
>>The
>>way to do this is traditionally by
>>spamming, but starting flamewars, being
>>horridly obnoxious, and in general
>>acting like a dickweed also works fine.
>
>As you've included Bonta in this post I'd like you to direct me
>to instances of the beefs you state.
I can testify to 2 separate incidents on AOL where her publicity agent posted
fake, off-topic posts of praise, that when criticized, caused a swarm of
followers to jump in to flame the regulars of that message board. There is
also a record of several dozen such fake posts of praise by people with NO
other usenet history to several ngs, several by somebody claiming to be a
teacher using F*light as educational material. It's kinda hard to imagine she
didn't know about any of this.
She DID know about the rasff flame war, but absolutely refused to step in to
"protect" her followers, just let them make fools of themselves repeatedly on
her behalf. She also refused to apologize on behalf of her PR man who started
the fracas in the first place with yet another spam.
>Speaking of marketing,
>would you agree that mudslinging other writers does not reflect well?
It does if they're assholes.
>Not rational, I agree with you. Good thing you're not the only
>one buying books out there. Vanna Bonta and Newt Gingrich. :)
>Congratulations on your novel and let's hope others buy or don't
>buy you for the work not your personality.
Brenda scores points in both categories there. A damn fine writer, and a
sweetie to boot! :-)
Best,
Jim Bailey
Jim Bailey (jame...@aol.com)
http://www.sff.net/people/jbailey/
Web Assistant: The Market List -- http://www.marketlist.com/
SF/F/H short-story market listings and more.
Ayende Rahien
> news:8l1qi3$6ir$1...@feedme.surfree.net.il...
> > > that women have a place in the military (despite their little
> > > problem of monthly "infections") because they're good at sitting in
> > > one place for a long time, whereas, he explains, men have an urge to
> > > go hunt giraffes.
> >
> > Giraffes???
>
typical
> stereo-type of gender differences;basically, men - hunters, women-
> gatherers. That's a load of crap. Wanna see men sitting still? Go to a
> modern day office, and see a bunch of people sitting in their cubes
working
> all day. Wanna see women moving around? Same office, about the same
amount
> of men AND women would do the prairie dog (you know, pop their head above
> the cubes and look around for friends to chitter to).
> Men hunting giraffes, what a git.
Actually, I'm not objecting to the hunting part, I'm objecting to hunting
giraffes parts.
A deer, I can understand, a bull as well, it doesn't wieght that much and in
general isn't very dangerous unless you are in its path and keep yourself
out of it.
A giraffe can kill a lion with a single kick, and is *much* too big to do
anything useful with.
On the normal course of things, I don't think giraffes would be a prefered
prey.
Another big differance that I notice between men & women in general but
especially in office enviroments is that men are usually openly hostile,
women rarely so. (Apologies in advance, ladies)
I can't count the times I've seen two women that seem to get along fine, and
the moment woman #1of them leave, woman #2 would say some of the most
vicious things I've ever heard.
And the moment woman #1 return, then it's all nice converation again.
> > > He also talks about his support for the space program, which is
> > > apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with a
> > > tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
> >
> > Okay, this I can understand. Zero G sex is certainly going to be worth
its
> > while (do you know if anyone tried it?)
>
> Yep, NASA, if you believe the rumors and Conen O'Brien. I don't remember
> the results of the experiements, but I do remember a lot of the positions
> involved big rubberbands.
What was the *purpose* of those experiements, is a better question.
To find out if it was *possible*?
LOL
Ayende Rahien
be
> persuaded. Do so. Don't yap about flamewars of the past, idiocies of the
present,
> or moronities yet unborn in future time. Speak now, of Vanna Bonta and her
work.
> Tell us all about it, how wonderful it is. Kindle in us the desire.
Describe the
> neatnesses of the work in such glowing and intelligent terms that we can't
wait to
> read the book. (You think it cannot be done? Go down to
rec.arts.sf.written, and
> wade through the thousands of messages about Lois McMaster Bujold's books,
or Neal
> Stephenson.) Keep it brief, because long screens full of stuff are
offputting;
> keep it sweet, because you catch more flies with sugar than honey; keep it
on the
> subject, because we don't care about side issues.
Who want to attract flies anyway?
> I lead you to the altar, swept and garnished, where I've laid out the
kindling and
> the sacrifice and the drink offering. Put your hands on the cold stone,
and do it
> now. Call down the fire from heaven, because love is a fire. Pass it
from your
> burning heart to ours, because the ardent heart can only catch love by
contagion,
> from candle to candle in the dark.
>
> Call down the divine fire, and we will hail you as a true prophet of your
god. Or
> don't, and let your diety be revealed as a false baal, mere stone and
wood.
>
Easy to see why you can make a living out of writing.
John Kensmark
>
> Ayende Rahien <Aye...@softhome.net> wrote in message
> news:8l1qi3$6ir$1...@feedme.surfree.net.il...
>>> He also talks about his support for the space program, which
>>> is apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession
>>> with a tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
>>
>> Okay, this I can understand. Zero G sex is certainly going to
>> be worth its while (do you know if anyone tried it?)
>
> Yep, NASA, if you believe the rumors and Conen O'Brien. I
> don't remember the results of the experiements, but I do
> remember a lot of the positions involved big rubberbands.
The issue of whether or not anyone has had two-person sex in space
comes up a lot. No definitive answers yet. No offense to Conan,
but I can't accept him as a rigorous source on this.
The major problems with Newt's vision are these:
-- most people throw up quite a bit upon experiencing free-fall.
Among folks accustomed to lots of acceleration changes, which
includes most astronaut trainees, this number drops to about one out
of four. Apparently, most people can get used to free-fall, but it
can take a while. Vomit in low-gee is not romantic.
-- certainly for the rest of Newt's lifetime and probably for a
considerably longer time, space travel will remain exceedingly
expensive. Free-fall sex tourism is not likely going to pay for
itself any time soon, as there are probably a very limited number of
millionaires who want to pay, say, $50 million for the treat (and
that might be *per person*). For a two-day trip, say. And how many
of them would pay that much to go back up *again*?
Still, this does suggest a fine film premise--"Indecent
Proposal in Space". "I'll pay you $100 million dollars for one
night with your wife . . . in space."
-- let's face it, how many people are really up to mere
*terrestrial* acrobatic sex? Put folks in free-fall, and we're
talking heart attacks, concussions, black eyes, sprains, and
excuses. ("This has never happened to me before. In fact, I've
never been off of Earth before.")
Besides, the tendency of bodies in free-fall is to drift away
from one another. That's also not super-romantic. There are ways
around it (rubber bands, per se, wouldn't've been my choice, but I
haven't been consulted yet), but it's a serious issue. So is, as I
hinted a moment ago, bumping into things when you least expect it.
-- novel sex environments aren't a really big business now, and they
have much lower start-up costs. Yes, there's money in 'exotic'
hotels and whatnot in the US, but not as much as you might think.
(Compare this to the ubiquitous 'love hotel' of urban Japan.) Hotel
rooms with hot tubs are about as far as the mainstream has gotten in
the US. Newt is fooling himself.
-- and, anyway, how 'family values' is this idea? Newt should be
ashamed. Well, for a lot of reasons, but this isn't the least of
them. Bad Republican! Bad!
John Kensmark
kensmark#hotmail.com
Have an affair. It'll help break up the monogamy.
Steve Taylor
> -- novel sex environments aren't a really big business now, and they
> have much lower start-up costs. Yes, there's money in 'exotic'
> hotels and whatnot in the US, but not as much as you might think.
> (Compare this to the ubiquitous 'love hotel' of urban Japan.)
And in fact 'Love Motels' exist for social reasons not related to
novelty. Their major feature is that at last you've got a bit of
privacy. Red satin heart shaped vibrating waterbeds are more or less an
afterthought.
> John Kensmark
Steve
James Nicoll
John Kensmark <kens...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>He also talks about his support for the space program, which is
>apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with a
>tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
Makes sense: every other technology which can be applied to
sex seems to grow quickly: phones, computers, washing machines...
Steve Taylor
research, and now I know *why* I haven't heard of her. Example quotes:
"Let us cleanse the agony of eons and weep ourselves back into
children."
"Thought is where realities begin."
"Perhaps the only impossibility for those who love is to be apart."
"Only imperfections make someone imperfect; take them away and no one is
imperfect."
I feel like my brain just had an enema.
Steve
Alex Jay Berman
<Aye...@softhome.net> wrote:
>> Gingrich's non-fiction is more entertaining, I think. He explains
>> that women have a place in the military (despite their little
>> problem of monthly "infections") because they're good at sitting in
>> one place for a long time, whereas, he explains, men have an urge to
>> go hunt giraffes.
>
>Giraffes???
>
>> He also talks about his support for the space program, which is
>> apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with a
>> tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
>
>Okay, this I can understand. Zero G sex is certainly going to be worth its
>while (do you know if anyone tried it?)
>But, somehow, although it goes against most of what I believe in, I feel
>that there other reasons to get to space than to have zero g sex.
Arthur C. Clarke has written at length about the financial
possibilities of sex tourism being a drawing factior for the private
space race.
Alex Jay Berman
"I like criticism, but it must be my way."--Mark Twain
Ayende Rahien
"Steve Taylor" <st...@tarms.com> wrote in message
news:39753866...@tarms.com...
> Until yesterday I'd never heard of Vanna Bonta. I just did a little web
> research, and now I know *why* I haven't heard of her. Example quotes:
>
> "Let us cleanse the agony of eons and weep ourselves back into
> children."
weep ourself back into children? shouldn't it be childhood? And would anyone
want to cry oneself to childhood?
> "Thought is where realities begin."
Shouldn't it be where reality bgein?
> "Perhaps the only impossibility for those who love is to be apart."
This it nice.
> "Only imperfections make someone imperfect; take them away and no one is
> imperfect."
In all the admirable style of Dan Qouyle.
> I feel like my brain just had an enema.
LOL
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>"Brenda" <clo...@erols.com> wrote
>
>> Or consider the fate of
>> 1945 -- Newt Gingrich may be a great
>> novelist, but I will always pass his
>> book by.
>
>He's not a great novelist - the book feels like mediocre Harry Turtledove.
>Though I suppose the reputation of Newt Gingrich is less significant if I'm
>3000 miles East of his sphere of influence, and reading the book after his
>influence has flamed and faded and is gone.
As long as Newt's come up, I'll pass on something from the WashPost
gossip column today. Remember how he divorced his first wife when she
was sick? Turns out the just-divorced/divorcing wife was diagnosed
with MS a year and a half ago and has had it much longer. The new
Mrs. better make sure she never gets seriously ill.
Marilee J. Layman
>
>
>Cornell wrote:
>
>> >The
>> >way to do this is traditionally by
>> >spamming, but starting flamewars, being
>> >horridly obnoxious, and in general
>> >acting like a dickweed also works fine.
>>
>> As you've included Bonta in this post I'd like you to direct me to instances of
>> the beefs you state. Speaking of marketing, would you agree that mudslinging
>> other writers does not reflect well?
>>
>
>
>
><sigh> You don't get it. Once more into the breach, dear friends, and this time
>I'll be more obvious.
>
>Dear Cornell, I am offering you an opportunity. We stand here, ready to be
>persuaded. Do so. Don't yap about flamewars of the past, idiocies of the present,
>or moronities yet unborn in future time. Speak now, of Vanna Bonta and her work.
>Tell us all about it, how wonderful it is. Kindle in us the desire. Describe the
>neatnesses of the work in such glowing and intelligent terms that we can't wait to
>read the book. (You think it cannot be done? Go down to rec.arts.sf.written, and
>wade through the thousands of messages about Lois McMaster Bujold's books, or Neal
>Stephenson.) Keep it brief, because long screens full of stuff are offputting;
>keep it sweet, because you catch more flies with sugar than honey; keep it on the
>subject, because we don't care about side issues.
>
>I lead you to the altar, swept and garnished, where I've laid out the kindling and
>the sacrifice and the drink offering. Put your hands on the cold stone, and do it
>now. Call down the fire from heaven, because love is a fire. Pass it from your
>burning heart to ours, because the ardent heart can only catch love by contagion,
>from candle to candle in the dark.
>
>Call down the divine fire, and we will hail you as a true prophet of your god. Or
>don't, and let your diety be revealed as a false baal, mere stone and wood.
Do y'all give rasfc awards?
Marilee J. Layman
>
>
>Marilee J. Layman wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:45:57 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The sales are not yours to win. They're
>> >yours to lose. We vote with our
>> >dollars. A word to the wise.
>>
>> Speaking of which, the SFBC version of your Suburban Gods duo arrived
>> yesterday.
>>
>
>Argh, really?!? I haven't seen it! Perhaps someday the unfortunate and
>miserable author will lay eyes on a copy. I thought it wasn't due out
>for ages!
It was in the last flyer; I ordered it from the website (saves me a
stamp). You would think you'd get a copy, though!
Chad Ryan Thomas
"Ayende Rahien" <Aye...@softhome.net> wrote:
> A giraffe can kill a lion with a single kick, and is *much* too big
to do
> anything useful with.
> On the normal course of things, I don't think giraffes would be a
prefered
> prey.
Hunter-gatherers in southern Africa do hunt giraffes. They're high-
prestige, high-return game that groups of up-and-coming men go after
for several days at a time. When a kill is made, the men butcher the
giraffe on site, gorge themselves on site, and take some of the
biggest, meatiest parts back to the main camp.
Even before Europeanization in southern Africa it didn't happen too
often, though.
--
****** Chad Ryan Thomas *********** crth...@asu.edu ******
/ "I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be\
\ content." -- St. Paul (Phil. 4:11, KJV) /
*********** http://www.public.asu.edu/~crthomas ***********
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John Kensmark
>
> In article <3974EB8F...@my-deja.com>,
> John Kensmark <kens...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> is apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with
>> a tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
>
> to sex seems to grow quickly: phones, computers, washing
> machines...
Sure, but it becomes a *public*, or common, sex toy really only
after the technology--or its appropriate fruits--becomes fairly
commonly available. No one I've ever heard of ran out to spend $50
million on a washing machine because they wanted to have sex on top
of it.
I realize the Gutenberg press was used, early on, to produce
pornography, but he wasn't charging anything like $50 megabills, I'm
sure. And I'm not saying sex in space won't happen, or that it
won't be popular. I'm just saying it won't become public
recreation--or a major form of tourism--until prices come down
rather significantly, and that won't likely be for a while yet.
I will always cherish the initial | John Kensmark
misconceptions I had about you. | kensmark#hotmail.com
Brenda
Marilee J. Layman wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:25:18 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Marilee J. Layman wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:45:57 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The sales are not yours to win. They're
> >> >yours to lose. We vote with our
> >> >dollars. A word to the wise.
> >>
> >> Speaking of which, the SFBC version of your Suburban Gods duo arrived
> >> yesterday.
> >>
> >
> >Argh, really?!? I haven't seen it! Perhaps someday the unfortunate and
> >miserable author will lay eyes on a copy. I thought it wasn't due out
> >for ages!
>
> It was in the last flyer; I ordered it from the website (saves me a
> stamp). You would think you'd get a copy, though!
>
> --
Probably one will show up sooner or later. I'm just impatient.
Keith Morrison
> He also talks about his support for the space program, which is
> apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with a
> tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
Based on the observation that many new technologies get off the
ground due, in part, to their adoption by the sex industry, I
don't think he's that far out in left field. I mean, some guy
offered a lot of cash to Britney Spears for a romp in the sack.
Don't you think someone like that would jump at the chance to
do some nubile young woman in orbit?
And once a fair number of people start staying in orbit, how
long do you think it will be before zero-g porn becomes
available?
--
Keith
Brenda
Marilee J. Layman wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:17:17 +0100, "Thomas Womack" <t...@womack.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"Brenda" <clo...@erols.com> wrote
> >
> >> Or consider the fate of
> >> 1945 -- Newt Gingrich may be a great
> >> novelist, but I will always pass his
> >> book by.
> >
> >He's not a great novelist - the book feels like mediocre Harry Turtledove.
> >Though I suppose the reputation of Newt Gingrich is less significant if I'm
> >3000 miles East of his sphere of influence, and reading the book after his
> >influence has flamed and faded and is gone.
>
> As long as Newt's come up, I'll pass on something from the WashPost
> gossip column today. Remember how he divorced his first wife when she
> was sick? Turns out the just-divorced/divorcing wife was diagnosed
> with MS a year and a half ago and has had it much longer. The new
> Mrs. better make sure she never gets seriously ill.
>
> --
Yes, isn't he a charmer? It quite makes me despair of my fellow females. (And
OJ Simpson has actually found another blonde to date! She must have lint for
brains.)
Jonathan W Hendry
Also, the availability of 'pay by the hour' rates is important.
Ayende Rahien
> long do you think it will be before zero-g porn becomes
> available?
Was there ever porn movies with 100$ millions budget?
Jonathan W Hendry
> John Kensmark wrote:
>> He also talks about his support for the space program, which is
>> apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with a
>> tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
> Based on the observation that many new technologies get off the
> ground due, in part, to their adoption by the sex industry, I
> don't think he's that far out in left field. I mean, some guy
> offered a lot of cash to Britney Spears for a romp in the sack.
> Don't you think someone like that would jump at the chance to
> do some nubile young woman in orbit?
> And once a fair number of people start staying in orbit, how
> long do you think it will be before zero-g porn becomes
> available?
Actually, zero-g porn producers would no doubt be the paying market
for zero-g sex, at least at first.
Jonathan W Hendry
>> And once a fair number of people start staying in orbit, how
>> long do you think it will be before zero-g porn becomes
>> available?
> Was there ever porn movies with 100$ millions budget?
Probably not, but you could film a *lot* of porn during a week
in space. The budget would be amortized over a bunch of movies.
Plus they'd undoubtedly do a pay-per-view special, 'the making-of'
videos, etc.
Pete McCutchen
wrote:
>> Yep, NASA, if you believe the rumors and Conen O'Brien. I
>> don't remember the results of the experiements, but I do
>> remember a lot of the positions involved big rubberbands.
>
>The issue of whether or not anyone has had two-person sex in space
>comes up a lot. No definitive answers yet. No offense to Conan,
>but I can't accept him as a rigorous source on this.
This came up on rec.arts.sf.written a while back, and somebody claimed
that a couple of astronauts had gotten married, just before leaving on
an already-scheduled mission. NASA supposedly jiggered with their
work schedules, so they couldn't do it in space. (Only NASA would be
so prudish as to worry about a *married couple* having sex in space.)
However, apparently they finished their assigned tasks early, and
there was some relatively brief period when they were alone together
in a part of the shuttle. Whether they had sex is anybody's guess.
But wouldn't you?
--
Pete McCutchen
Pete McCutchen
<kei...@polarnet.ca> wrote:
>I mean, some guy
>offered a lot of cash to Britney Spears for a romp in the sack.
How much was "a lot"?
What did she say?
And did he specify any conditions? Did he want her to wear here
Catholic schoolgirl outfit, let him spank her/have her spank him, or
anything similar? Or did he just want to "do it" with Brittney
Spears?
--
Pete McCutchen
Anncrispin
gee "cum shot."
Sounds messy.
(And no, I didn't see it.)
-Ann C. Crispin
Keith Morrison
>
> This came up on rec.arts.sf.written a while back, and somebody claimed
> that a couple of astronauts had gotten married, just before leaving on
> an already-scheduled mission. NASA supposedly jiggered with their
> work schedules, so they couldn't do it in space. (Only NASA would be
> so prudish as to worry about a *married couple* having sex in space.)
STS-47 on Endeavour, Mark Lee (Payload Commander) and Jan Davis
(Mission Specialist). Endeavour was flying with the Spacelab, so
the crew was divided into two teams to work alternating shifts.
> However, apparently they finished their assigned tasks early, and
> there was some relatively brief period when they were alone together
> in a part of the shuttle. Whether they had sex is anybody's guess.
>
> But wouldn't you?
And they had a fair bit of room, with Spacelab in the cargo bay.
Just shut the door for a few minutes.
--
Keith
Pete McCutchen
>Dear Cornell, I am offering you an opportunity. We stand here, ready to be
>persuaded. Do so. Don't yap about flamewars of the past, idiocies of the present,
>or moronities yet unborn in future time. Speak now, of Vanna Bonta and her work.
Who is Vanna Bonta?
--
Pete McCutchen
Keith Morrison
> >I mean, some guy
> >offered a lot of cash to Britney Spears for a romp in the sack.
>
> How much was "a lot"?
>
> What did she say?
>
> And did he specify any conditions? Did he want her to wear here
> Catholic schoolgirl outfit, let him spank her/have her spank him, or
> anything similar? Or did he just want to "do it" with Brittney
> Spears?
What am I, omniscient?
What happened is that she's said she wants to remain a virgin
until her wedding night. There was a report that some guy in
the States offered $17 million to, ah, skip the preliminaries.
--
Keith
Pete McCutchen
<kei...@polarnet.ca> wrote:
>> And did he specify any conditions? Did he want her to wear here
>> Catholic schoolgirl outfit, let him spank her/have her spank him, or
>> anything similar? Or did he just want to "do it" with Brittney
>> Spears?
>
>What am I, omniscient?
I think you know the answer to that question.
>
>What happened is that she's said she wants to remain a virgin
>until her wedding night. There was a report that some guy in
>the States offered $17 million to, ah, skip the preliminaries.
Wow. Tell me this guy's phone number -- I'll have sex with him for
$17 million.
--
Pete McCutchen
John Kensmark
>
> Pete McCutchen wrote:
>>
>> This came up on rec.arts.sf.written a while back, and somebody
>> claimed that a couple of astronauts had gotten married, just
>> before leaving on an already-scheduled mission. NASA
>> supposedly jiggered with their work schedules, so they
>> couldn't do it in space. (Only NASA would be so prudish as to
>> worry about a *married couple* having sex in space.)
>
> STS-47 on Endeavour, Mark Lee (Payload Commander) and Jan Davis
> (Mission Specialist). Endeavour was flying with the Spacelab, so
> the crew was divided into two teams to work alternating shifts.
Life is definitely more contrived than most good fiction. If I were
running NASA, though, I might worry about it, too. Not so much for
"prudish" reasons as legal and ethical ones. Suppose they did have
sex, and became pregnant, and there was something horribly wrong
with the baby?
Organizations like NASA do have to be paranoid about what may come
up down the line. So to speak. Or what if there were some kind of
accident. Embarrassing publicity aside, NASA is responsible for
those people. Space missions are still basically military missions,
and you don't want tank crews having sex while on duty, either.
I'm not saying I'd be outraged if NASA bent a rule or two to *allow*
astronauts to have sex, either. I'm just not surprised if NASA
doesn't.
>> However, apparently they finished their assigned tasks early,
>> and there was some relatively brief period when they were alone
>> together in a part of the shuttle. Whether they had sex is
>> anybody's guess.
>>
>> But wouldn't you?
I think I'd at least be mighty tempted.
> And they had a fair bit of room, with Spacelab in the cargo
> bay. Just shut the door for a few minutes.
Is the cargo bay pressurized and heated and whatnot? I have no
idea; it never occurred to me to wonder before.
God made everything out of nothing, | John Kensmark
but the nothing shows through. | kensmark#hotmail.com
John Kensmark
>
> John Kensmark wrote:
>
>> He also talks about his support for the space program, which is
>> apparently based entirely on his oft-repeated obsession with a
>> tourism program based on zero-g sex. No, seriously.
>
> Based on the observation that many new technologies get off the
> ground due, in part, to their adoption by the sex industry, I
> don't think he's that far out in left field.
I do, and I know he's not the only one who has this idea. There are
technologies that first become profitable through the sex industry,
but they generally don't have anything approaching such a high
per-customer cost. By several orders of magnitude.
> I mean, some guy offered a lot of cash to Britney Spears for a
> romp in the sack. Don't you think someone like that would jump
> at the chance to do some nubile young woman in orbit?
That's *one* guy, and, from what I heard, he didn't offer half as
much as what private trips to orbit are currently going for. If you
want the nubile young woman, too, you have to get her to agree (in
this case, he apparently didn't offer enough, if enough was
possible) and then pay *her* way into orbit, too.
> And once a fair number of people start staying in orbit, how
> long do you think it will be before zero-g porn becomes
> available?
I don't pretend to have any great familiarity with the porn
industry, but I strongly doubt that free-fall porn will be common
until it's either (A) faked on a regular basis or (B) of trivial
cost. Hard core porn is not generally a high-budget affair.
With those delicate features of his, he | John Kensmark
would have made a pretty woman, and he | kensmark#hotmail.com
probably never has.
John Kensmark
>
> Ayende Rahien <Aye...@softhome.net> wrote:
>
>>> And once a fair number of people start staying in orbit, how
>>> long do you think it will be before zero-g porn becomes
>>> available?
>
>
> Probably not, but you could film a *lot* of porn during a week
> in space. The budget would be amortized over a bunch of movies.
> Plus they'd undoubtedly do a pay-per-view special, 'the
> making-of' videos, etc.
$10,000 is a reasonable budget for a popular (as these things go)
hard core porn film today. Let's say we're talking $50 million per
person going up to orbit and further say that we only need two
principals, one additional director / cameraman, and the video
eqipment will be a camcorder and not cost extra. And we'll give
them a full week.
That's $150 million, anyway. If a porn film lasts one hour and they
manage to somehow film, continuously, 12 hours a day, with no
editing, re-shooting, or mistakes, they can produce 12 films a day.
(Perhaps free-fall has the effect on male anatomy that some ascribe
to it.)
That makes 84 films by the end of the week. The per-film cost is
more than one and three-quarter million dollars.
Much more realistically--especially considering that these folks
will be unfamiliar with the difficulties of making porn films in
free-fall (these are extremely non-trivial, I might add)--they might
be able to make three or four films (or none, if, frex, any one of
the three of them is sick the whole time). That's a per-film cost
of $40-50 million per.
Who knows? They might just be able to make money with the combined
video, web, and pay-per-view markets, especially if the films are
made properly so they can later be edited into hard and soft core
forms. But few, if any, porn empires are going to risk that kind of
capital. Or even could.
"No one can earn a million dollars | John Kensmark
honestly." | kensmark#hotmail.com
-- William Jennings Bryan
Ayende Rahien
> Life is definitely more contrived than most good fiction. If I were
> running NASA, though, I might worry about it, too. Not so much for
> "prudish" reasons as legal and ethical ones. Suppose they did have
> sex, and became pregnant, and there was something horribly wrong
> with the baby?
What can go wrong? I can see several problems in having a baby that was
convinced and borned in free fall, but those missions weren't that long.
Ayende Rahien
> > romp in the sack. Don't you think someone like that would jump
> > at the chance to do some nubile young woman in orbit?
>
> That's *one* guy, and, from what I heard, he didn't offer half as
> much as what private trips to orbit are currently going for. If you
> want the nubile young woman, too, you have to get her to agree (in
> this case, he apparently didn't offer enough, if enough was
> possible) and then pay *her* way into orbit, too.
AND, she didn't agree.
Although, when you think about it, if he want a young nubile virgin women,
he could have as much as he wanted in 17$ millions.
> > And once a fair number of people start staying in orbit, how
> > long do you think it will be before zero-g porn becomes
> > available?
>
> I don't pretend to have any great familiarity with the porn
> industry, but I strongly doubt that free-fall porn will be common
> until it's either (A) faked on a regular basis or (B) of trivial
> cost. Hard core porn is not generally a high-budget affair.
I think it would be far easier to just fake the scenes then send them up.
Jonathan W Hendry
>> > I mean, some guy offered a lot of cash to Britney Spears for a
>> > romp in the sack. Don't you think someone like that would jump
>> > at the chance to do some nubile young woman in orbit?
>>
>> That's *one* guy, and, from what I heard, he didn't offer half as
>> much as what private trips to orbit are currently going for. If you
>> want the nubile young woman, too, you have to get her to agree (in
>> this case, he apparently didn't offer enough, if enough was
>> possible) and then pay *her* way into orbit, too.
> AND, she didn't agree.
> Although, when you think about it, if he want a young nubile virgin women,
> he could have as much as he wanted in 17$ millions.
I thought the 'indecent proposal' thing was fake? Or maybe
I'm confusing it with her non-engagement to the N'Sync guy,
or something involving British royalty.
Jonathan W Hendry
> Jonathan W Hendry wrote:
>>
>> Ayende Rahien <Aye...@softhome.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> long do you think it will be before zero-g porn becomes
>>>> available?
>>
>>
>> Probably not, but you could film a *lot* of porn during a week
>> in space. The budget would be amortized over a bunch of movies.
>> Plus they'd undoubtedly do a pay-per-view special, 'the
>> making-of' videos, etc.
> $10,000 is a reasonable budget for a popular (as these things go)
> hard core porn film today. Let's say we're talking $50 million per
> person going up to orbit and further say that we only need two
> principals, one additional director / cameraman, and the video
> eqipment will be a camcorder and not cost extra. And we'll give
> them a full week.
Hm. You'd probably want two women and one guy. If each person
could wear multiple hats, that'd help.
> That's $150 million, anyway. If a porn film lasts one hour and they
> manage to somehow film, continuously, 12 hours a day, with no
> editing, re-shooting, or mistakes, they can produce 12 films a day.
> (Perhaps free-fall has the effect on male anatomy that some ascribe
> to it.)
One hour is probably longer than average. Also, lesbian segments
wouldn't be a problem.
Most likely, they'd film a large number of scenes. Those scenes
could be edited and rearranged and repackaged. So, 84 hours of
film could produce an enormous number of products.
> That makes 84 films by the end of the week. The per-film cost is
> more than one and three-quarter million dollars.
> Much more realistically--especially considering that these folks
> will be unfamiliar with the difficulties of making porn films in
> free-fall (these are extremely non-trivial, I might add)--they might
> be able to make three or four films (or none, if, frex, any one of
> the three of them is sick the whole time). That's a per-film cost
> of $40-50 million per.
> Who knows? They might just be able to make money with the combined
> video, web, and pay-per-view markets, especially if the films are
> made properly so they can later be edited into hard and soft core
> forms. But few, if any, porn empires are going to risk that kind of
> capital. Or even could.
$150 million would be a large portion of Playboy's market cap.
They'd probably make more money if they landed the right stars:
Pamela Anderson, say.
It'd probably be cheaper to rent the vomit comet.
Keith Morrison
> >What am I, omniscient?
>
> I think you know the answer to that question.
Of course I do. I had to ask just to be polite.
> >What happened is that she's said she wants to remain a virgin
> >until her wedding night. There was a report that some guy in
> >the States offered $17 million to, ah, skip the preliminaries.
>
> Wow. Tell me this guy's phone number -- I'll have sex with him for
> $17 million.
Yeah, but you aren't a famous nubile 18 year old virgin.
--
Keith
Joe Mason
Boggle. How'd they film it?
Joe
Marilee J. Layman
Noooooo! Look up rasff and the woman from about 1997.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc
Marilee J. Layman
A friend passed this on to me today:
http://www.exosci.com/main/news/shownews/?id=1992http://www.exosci.com/main/news/shownews/?id=1992
Brenda
Pete McCutchen wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:32:45 -0600, Keith Morrison
> <kei...@polarnet.ca> wrote:
>
> >> And did he specify any conditions? Did he want her to wear here
> >> Catholic schoolgirl outfit, let him spank her/have her spank him, or
> >> anything similar? Or did he just want to "do it" with Brittney
> >> Spears?
> >
> >What am I, omniscient?
>
> I think you know the answer to that question.
>
> >
> >What happened is that she's said she wants to remain a virgin
> >until her wedding night. There was a report that some guy in
> >the States offered $17 million to, ah, skip the preliminaries.
>
> Wow. Tell me this guy's phone number -- I'll have sex with him for
> $17 million.
Do you really look like Britney Spears, Pete?
Keith Morrison
> > And they had a fair bit of room, with Spacelab in the cargo
> > bay. Just shut the door for a few minutes.
>
> Is the cargo bay pressurized and heated and whatnot? I have no
> idea; it never occurred to me to wonder before.
No. Spacelab is, essentially, a space-station module that
stays in the cargo bay and is connected to the shuttle's
airlock.
--
Keith
John Kensmark
>
>> Life is definitely more contrived than most good fiction. If
>> I were running NASA, though, I might worry about it, too. Not
>> so much for "prudish" reasons as legal and ethical ones.
>> Suppose they did have sex, and became pregnant, and there was
>> something horribly wrong with the baby?
>
> What can go wrong? I can see several problems in having a baby
> that was convinced and borned in free fall, but those missions
> weren't that long.
Ah, but you're missing the point--it's not about science, or
probability. It's about liability. Liability means that if
something *could be blamed on you*, then you have to watch out for
it. That's not the same as if something could actually be your
fault.
It's an ethical issue, yes, but much more than that it's a legal
issue. If the baby was abnormal, even if it had nothing to do with
conception in free-fall, it'd be hard to *prove* in court that it
had nothing to do with it. And if you were the one who said it
would be okay, you might always wonder, yourself, too.
In the state of Washington, there is a | John Kensmark
law against having sex with a virgin | kensmark#hotmail.com
under any circumstances.
Pete McCutchen
>> Wow. Tell me this guy's phone number -- I'll have sex with him for
>> $17 million.
>
>
>
>Do you really look like Britney Spears, Pete?
Alas, no.
--
Pete McCutchen
Richard Horton
On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:19:19 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>Do you really look like Britney Spears, Pete?
I have no idea what Pete looks like, though I gather he's not a tall
redhead, but geez, there are tons and tons of women who are much
better looking than Britney Spears.
I'll bet lots of them come cheaper than $17 mil, too.
--
Rich Horton | Stable Email: mailto://richard...@sff.net
Home Page: http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton
Also visit SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com) and Tangent Online (http://www.sfsite.com/tangent)
William R Ward
> It'd probably be cheaper to rent the vomit comet.
Actually ... there is a company that has a Boeing 727 outfitted like
the famous NASA 707 vomit comit, that does the same thing, in exchange
for some hefty bucks. I saw it on TLC or Discovery or one of those
channels.
--Bill.
--
William R Ward her...@bayview.com http://www.bayview.com/~hermit/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Richard Horton
On 19 Jul 2000 16:39:34 GMT, anncr...@aol.com (Anncrispin) wrote:
>A porn film called The Uranus Experiment featured some zero gee sex and a zero
>gee "cum shot."
>
>Sounds messy.
>
>(And no, I didn't see it.)
Wasn't that film a Nebula nominee? (ducking and running)
Morgan E. Smith
On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Richard Horton wrote:
>
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:19:19 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >Do you really look like Britney Spears, Pete?
>
> I have no idea what Pete looks like, though I gather he's not a tall
> redhead, but geez, there are tons and tons of women who are much
> better looking than Britney Spears.
>
> I'll bet lots of them come cheaper than $17 mil, too.
God knows I would - and right now, with the weirdness I call "work"
plummetting to an undreamed of low, I could be gotten for the price of a
bus ticket to Schenectady.
Morgan
Ayende Rahien
"Marilee J. Layman" <mjla...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:7t6cnsg1k2okif3su...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:54:37 GMT, Pete McCutchen
> <p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:33:18 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Dear Cornell, I am offering you an opportunity. We stand here, ready to
be
> >>persuaded. Do so. Don't yap about flamewars of the past, idiocies of
the present,
> >>or moronities yet unborn in future time. Speak now, of Vanna Bonta and
her work.
> >
> >Who is Vanna Bonta?
>
> Noooooo! Look up rasff and the woman from about 1997.
>
Ayende Rahien
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:39:22 +0200, "Ayende Rahien"
>
> >
> >> Life is definitely more contrived than most good fiction. If I were
> >> running NASA, though, I might worry about it, too. Not so much for
> >> "prudish" reasons as legal and ethical ones. Suppose they did have
> >> sex, and became pregnant, and there was something horribly wrong
> >> with the baby?
> >
> >What can go wrong? I can see several problems in having a baby that was
> >convinced and borned in free fall, but those missions weren't that long.
>
>
>
http://www.exosci.com/main/news/shownews/?id=1992http://www.exosci.com/main/
news/shownews/?id=1992
>
I see two problems with this.
A> People had spent long times in space, and they had survived it. No
reason an embryo would be differant, if it just spent the few days/weeks of
its life in free fall.
B> Wombs don't just let anything go out, if it's outside certain parameters,
it's out. (Very incensitive way of putting it, I know.)
Ayende Rahien
"Brenda" <clo...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:39762967...@erols.com...
>
>
> Pete McCutchen wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:32:45 -0600, Keith Morrison
> > <kei...@polarnet.ca> wrote:
> >
> > >> And did he specify any conditions? Did he want her to wear here
> > >> Catholic schoolgirl outfit, let him spank her/have her spank him, or
> > >> anything similar? Or did he just want to "do it" with Brittney
> > >> Spears?
> > >
> > >What am I, omniscient?
> >
> > I think you know the answer to that question.
> >
> > >
> > >What happened is that she's said she wants to remain a virgin
> > >until her wedding night. There was a report that some guy in
> > >the States offered $17 million to, ah, skip the preliminaries.
> >
> > Wow. Tell me this guy's phone number -- I'll have sex with him for
> > $17 million.
>
>
>
> Do you really look like Britney Spears, Pete?
>
Ayende Rahien
invested time.
Personally, if I'd 17 millions, I wouldn't bother.
I would pass around cards saying:
Ayende Rahien
Phone: 01-2345678
Bank acount: 17,000,000 $
Call at any time.
Or:
Ayende Rahien
Adress: Phony adress 12, Tel Aviv
Bank Acount: 69,751,000 NIS (New Israelian Shekels.)
Drop in anytime, cloths are optional.
I think that will do the job.
"Richard Horton" <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:8l5it9$3el8$5...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
>
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:19:19 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >Do you really look like Britney Spears, Pete?
>
> I have no idea what Pete looks like, though I gather he's not a tall
> redhead, but geez, there are tons and tons of women who are much
> better looking than Britney Spears.
>
> I'll bet lots of them come cheaper than $17 mil, too.
>
>
Steve Taylor
>>A porn film called The Uranus Experiment featured some zero gee sex and a zero
>>gee "cum shot."
>>Sounds messy.
>>
>>(And no, I didn't see it.)
> Boggle. How'd they film it?
In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long dive during
which the interior is effectively zero-g.
I'm not even sure I *like* the idea of zero-g sex. After all, gravity is
pretty handy for keeping you both stuck to the same surface...
> Joe
Steve
Katy Mulvey
>Anncrispin <anncr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>A porn film called The Uranus Experiment featured some zero gee sex and a zero
>>gee "cum shot."
>>
>>Sounds messy.
>>
>>(And no, I didn't see it.)
>
>Boggle. How'd they film it?
Apparently on the so-called "Vomit Comet". Second link on a google search
for "zero g sex" yields a press release:
http://www.flashnews.com/news/3vpl6vx4.htm
[...]
The film ū titled The Uranus Experiment ū was filmed on a plane
travelling at 11,000 feet which rapidly dives and generates about
20 seconds of zero gravity.
Producer Ola Nicolausson says he could afford only one take for
the history-making flick
[...]
FWIW, a sequel apparently got enough votes to get on the 1999 Nebula
ballot.
- Katy
Ayende Rahien
and sex in 0G.
You've a lot of positions you can't do on Earth, you can both use both
hands, and so on.
"Steve Taylor" <st...@tarms.com> wrote in message
news:39765A2D...@tarms.com...
> Joe Mason wrote:
>
> >>A porn film called The Uranus Experiment featured some zero gee sex and
a zero
> >>gee "cum shot."
>
> >>Sounds messy.
> >>
> >>(And no, I didn't see it.)
>
> > Boggle. How'd they film it?
>
Marilee J. Layman
<p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:19:19 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>>> Wow. Tell me this guy's phone number -- I'll have sex with him for
>>> $17 million.
>>
>>
>>
>>Do you really look like Britney Spears, Pete?
>
>Alas, no.
For $17 million, he could try.
Ayende Rahien
"Marilee J. Layman" <mjla...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:8evcnsoepehfejti4...@4ax.com...
Julian Flood
> If the baby was abnormal
<thinking hard> The cytoskeleton* of dividing cells may be dependent on
gravity to produce correct alignment. Thus even the first cell division
after conception might produce problems.
*those little rod things which line up and pull the cell apart. I think
that's the right name.
--
Julian Flood
Life, the Universe and Climbing Plants at www.argonet.co.uk/users/julesf.
John Hua
Steve Taylor <st...@tarms.com> wrote in message
news:39765A2D...@tarms.com...
> Joe Mason wrote:
>
> >>A porn film called The Uranus Experiment featured some zero gee sex and
a zero
> >>gee "cum shot."
>
> >>Sounds messy.
> >>
> >>(And no, I didn't see it.)
>
> > Boggle. How'd they film it?
>
> In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long dive during
> which the interior is effectively zero-g.
Sounds really expensive. How did a porn company afford this? Their usual
budget is around 50K (sorry, was crying over Asia Carrera's lifestory a few
weeks ago), that doesn't even pay for the crew much less flying time.
And isn't the plane only able to maintain zero-g for less than a minute?
How do you time the "shot?" Must be why they're the pros.
John
John Hua
John
Katy Mulvey <kmulvey1...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:slrn8ncnsa.3vubqh1...@teleman.aa2ys.ampr.org...
> Joe Mason <jcm...@uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> >Anncrispin <anncr...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>A porn film called The Uranus Experiment featured some zero gee sex and
a zero
> >>gee "cum shot."
> >>
> >>Sounds messy.
> >>
> >>(And no, I didn't see it.)
> >
> >Boggle. How'd they film it?
>
> Apparently on the so-called "Vomit Comet". Second link on a google search
> for "zero g sex" yields a press release:
>
> http://www.flashnews.com/news/3vpl6vx4.htm
> [...]
> The film û titled The Uranus Experiment û was filmed on a plane
Thomas Womack
> It'd probably be cheaper to rent the vomit comet.
Ann Crispin wrote
>A porn film called The Uranus Experiment featured some zero gee sex and a
>zero gee "cum shot."
And I recall reading a while back that some porn producers *had* rented the
vomit comet.
Tom
Thomas Lynch
Julian Flood <jul...@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:na.40e13649e0...@argonet.co.uk...
> John Kensmark wrote:
> > If the baby was abnormal
>
> <thinking hard> The cytoskeleton* of dividing cells may be dependent on
> gravity to produce correct alignment. Thus even the first cell division
> after conception might produce problems.
>
> *those little rod things which line up and pull the cell apart. I think
> that's the right name.
Is this what happened to your diddly skiffle folk?
Pete McCutchen
wrote:
>In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long dive during
>which the interior is effectively zero-g.
Am I the only person who would, like, pay good money to ride in that
plane?
--
Pete McCutchen
Pete McCutchen
<pat...@ix.spamblock.netcom.com> wrote:
>> In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long dive during
>> which the interior is effectively zero-g.
>
>Sounds really expensive. How did a porn company afford this? Their usual
>budget is around 50K (sorry, was crying over Asia Carrera's lifestory a few
>weeks ago), that doesn't even pay for the crew much less flying time.
Not to mention the fact that this particular plane is owned by NASA,
and that Opie had to pull out all the stops to get them to let him use
it for Apollo 13.
Btw, who is "Asia Carrera," and what's so interesting about her life
story?
--
Pete McCutchen
mary_...@cix.compulink.co.uk
p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net (Pete McCutchen) wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:47:25 +1000, Steve Taylor
><st...@tarms.com> wrote:
>
> >In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long
>dive during which the interior is effectively zero-g.
>
> Am I the only person who would, like, pay good money to
>ride in that plane?
No -- I can see a good few people in the queue ahead of you.
I'm probably one of them; I'm just remembering quite how
little I enjoy throwing up...
Mary
Beth Friedman
<p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:47:25 +1000, Steve Taylor <st...@tarms.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long dive during
>>which the interior is effectively zero-g.
>
>Am I the only person who would, like, pay good money to ride in that
>plane?
Well, it depends what you mean. I believe you can do it for about
$5,000. While I do have at least $5,000 in savings, I don't intend to
spend my money that way, though I would desperately love a chance to
experience free fall.
For $100, I'd do it without a thought. Anything in between that comes
down to negotiating, I guess.
On the other hand, I'm the one who pays good money to ride the
"adventure rides" at the State Fair that other people say they'd have
to be _paid_ large amounts of money to even consider. And Geri
Sullivan has the videotapes to prove it.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Pete McCutchen
>In article <f86ens0k5ucbhsv07...@4ax.com>,
>p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net (Pete McCutchen) wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:47:25 +1000, Steve Taylor
>><st...@tarms.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long
>>dive during which the interior is effectively zero-g.
>>
>> Am I the only person who would, like, pay good money to
>>ride in that plane?
>
>No -- I can see a good few people in the queue ahead of you.
>
>I'm probably one of them; I'm just remembering quite how
>little I enjoy throwing up...
I don't think I would throw up, to be honest.
I'm not at all prone to seasickness, and I've ridden both coasters and
spinny-rides immediately after eating, with no ill effect whatsoever.
There might very well be something, other than illness or extreme
drunkenness, that could make me throw up, but I've certainly never
experienced it.
--
Pete McCutchen
Jonathan W Hendry
>>On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:47:25 +1000, Steve Taylor <st...@tarms.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long dive during
>>>which the interior is effectively zero-g.
>>
>>Am I the only person who would, like, pay good money to ride in that
>>plane?
> Well, it depends what you mean. I believe you can do it for about
> $5,000. While I do have at least $5,000 in savings, I don't intend to
> spend my money that way, though I would desperately love a chance to
> experience free fall.
> For $100, I'd do it without a thought. Anything in between that comes
> down to negotiating, I guess.
> On the other hand, I'm the one who pays good money to ride the
> "adventure rides" at the State Fair that other people say they'd have
> to be _paid_ large amounts of money to even consider. And Geri
> Sullivan has the videotapes to prove it.
A long time ago I saw footage of indoor skydiving facilities,
basically a silo with a huge upward-blowing fan in the bottom.
Are such places still around?
Ayende Rahien
20 Minutes, now, is another thing.
"Beth Friedman" <b...@wavefront.com> wrote in message
news:j9genskl9d7kv3tbv...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:12:58 GMT, Pete McCutchen
> <p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:47:25 +1000, Steve Taylor <st...@tarms.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long dive during
> >>which the interior is effectively zero-g.
> >
> >Am I the only person who would, like, pay good money to ride in that
> >plane?
>
> Well, it depends what you mean. I believe you can do it for about
> $5,000. While I do have at least $5,000 in savings, I don't intend to
> spend my money that way, though I would desperately love a chance to
> experience free fall.
>
> For $100, I'd do it without a thought. Anything in between that comes
> down to negotiating, I guess.
>
> On the other hand, I'm the one who pays good money to ride the
> "adventure rides" at the State Fair that other people say they'd have
> to be _paid_ large amounts of money to even consider. And Geri
> Sullivan has the videotapes to prove it.
>
> --
> Beth Friedman
> b...@wavefront.com
Pete McCutchen
wrote:
>On the other hand, I'm the one who pays good money to ride the
>"adventure rides" at the State Fair that other people say they'd have
>to be _paid_ large amounts of money to even consider.
I'll ride pretty much anything at a *fixed site* amusement park, but
anything mobile scares me.
--
Pete McCutchen
John Hua
Pete McCutchen <p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:6a6ens86do2vqlld9...@4ax.com...
Asia is an Amer-asian porn star, her site is asiacarrera.com, that's where I
read about average producion costs for porn movies. Basically, she's had a
pretty crappy childhood which lead to her getting into porn to support
herself when she was in college. I guess most porn stars would have the
same kind of story, but Asia's the only one I know of that belongs to MENSA,
and her lifestory is really well written.
What really got to me was when she had to bum Fritos from her friends to
keep from starving. Heh, sounds funny when I write it out of context like
this, but its not really.
John
Keith Morrison
> Btw, who is "Asia Carrera," and what's so interesting about her life
> story?
Name sounds familiar, just let me check...ah, thought I recognized
the name.
Porn star. She was born in New York City, her father's German, mother
Japanese. She was a child prodigy; New Jersey state spelling champ,
mathematics and Spanish awards, National Geography, Language and Math
Olympiads. Played classical piano at Carnegie Hall when she was 13,
taught English at a College in Japan when she was 16. She was a
National Merit Scholar because of the 1440 she had on her SATs and
attended Rutgers on a full scholarship, double majoring in Japanese
and Business. Currently a computer geek, does her own website and
is a member of MENSA. Why anyone would want to join that club except
for bragging rights, I have no idea.
Anyway, what makes her story interesting is how she got into the
porn industry. Obviously a gifted child, she was apparently pushed
hard by her parents (her father went to Caltech on a full scholarship
for math and physics and her mother was an overacheiver as well).
According to her, she was grounded for anything less than an "A"
in scholl and physically struck for a "B-" or lower. Her parents
didn't ket her socialize and smacked her around when she was caught
sneaking out. She attempted suicide several times.
Running away from home at 17, she was forced to have sex now and
then in exchange for a place to sleep or even a meal, which she
ould rather do than go back to her parents. She was picked up
and placed in a foster home, her foster parents as strict as her
natural ones. She finished high school and was accepted at Rutgers
but ran away for the summer to get away from everyone until school
started and says she only really went to university because she knew
she could at least get meals and a bed there.
She started bartending in the evenings at a strip club and was
asked to serve drinks topless. She agreed, got buzzed on vodka
and found herself dancing on the bar hauling in tons of tips.
Realizing there was money to be had, she started dancing, let the
university slide and became on of the highest paid dancers in the
state. The money she made went into things normally associated
with the skin trade...mutual funds.
Long story short, she was trying to find out how to make more money
and decided to go into magazines and movies. She found she liked
the adult movie scene, left university and appears to be satisfied
with her life.
--
Keith
Katy Mulvey
>A long time ago I saw footage of indoor skydiving facilities,
>basically a silo with a huge upward-blowing fan in the bottom.
>
>Are such places still around?
I found one with a web search:
http://www.flyawayindoorskydiving.com/
- Katy
Beth Friedman
The ones at the State Fair are mobile, but their safety record looks
pretty impressive.
They cost $25 to $35, which is a lot of money for a minute or less,
but it is a lot of fun. (They have three different ones at the State
Fair, and we have videos of two of them (not for me, for Geri). Mike
Pins and I are planning on collecting the third one this year.)
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Thomas Womack
> > If the baby was abnormal
>
> <thinking hard> The cytoskeleton* of dividing cells may be dependent on
> gravity to produce correct alignment. Thus even the first cell division
> after conception might produce problems.
I think that's now definite, with experiments about solutions of purified
microtubules on Earth and in the Shuttle -- the announcement was on
news.bbc.co.uk within the last fortnight.
But I'm fairly sure there have been mammals conceived during experiments on
the Space Shuttle, and that two generations of fruit-flies passed there.
Tom
Cornell
>Tell us all about it, how wonderful it is. Kindle in us the desire.
>Describe the
>neatnesses of the work in such glowing and intelligent terms that we can't
>wait to
>read the book. (You think it cannot be done? Go down to
>rec.arts.sf.written, and
>wade through the thousands of messages about Lois McMaster Bujold's books, or
>Neal
>Stephenson.) Keep it brief, because long screens full of stuff are
>offputting;
>keep it sweet, because you catch more flies with sugar than honey; keep it on
>the
>subject, because we don't care about side issues.
>
>I lead you to the altar, swept and garnished, where I've laid out the
>kindling and
>the sacrifice and the drink offering. Put your hands on the cold stone, and
>do it
>now. Call down the fire from heaven, because love is a fire. Pass it from
>your
>burning heart to ours, because the ardent heart can only catch love by
>contagion,
>from candle to candle in the dark.
>
>Call down the divine fire, and we will hail you as a true prophet of your
>god. Or
>don't, and let your diety be revealed as a false baal, mere stone and wood.
>
>Brenda
Flowery. But what did you just say? As you haven't noticed, I'm not here
speaking about Vanna Bonta. I'm here discussing the use of ridicule, slander
and fabrications to affect clique opinion.
Cornell
>
Ayende,
Fortunately there are more reliable reference sources always available. It's a
big world.
jtooly
Cornell
>>Who is Vanna Bonta?
>
>Noooooo! Look up rasff and the woman from about 1997.
That's worse than buying the National Enquirer. As much as Marilee Layman tries
to pose as *the* definitive authority on Vanna Bonta (who isn't per se a genre
writer anyway) and all things and people SF, she obviously can't be relied upon
due to a little bugaboo she has with personal dislikes affecting her judgement.
There are several sources of info about her and her work, just do a search with
the name.
Ms. Layman your <<Noooooo!>> is probably the most accurate and truthful
statement you've made about the artist.
Marilee J. Layman
Where the heck did I say any of that? I've never claimed to be the
authority on V@nn@ B*ont@, or of all things and people SF. In fact,
on this group, I quite specifically stated I wasn't an SF
professional. There are lots of authors I don't like to read --
Anthony, Jordan, Eddings, etc. -- but I don't think they're frauds
like B*ont@.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
Marilee J. Layman
>Flowery. But what did you just say? As you haven't noticed, I'm not here
>speaking about Vanna Bonta. I'm here discussing the use of ridicule, slander
>and fabrications to affect clique opinion.
Ah, so you were trying some of it in your last post. Trust me, it
won't affect how people think of me.
Cornell
>How do you time the "shot?" Must be why they're the pros.
>
>John
>
<VBG> !
jtooly
Keith Morrison
> >There might very well be something, other than illness or extreme
> >drunkenness, that could make me throw up, but I've certainly never
> >experienced it.
>
> A ride in a 15-foot boat on 5-foot waves made by a southern wind on
> the Adriatic.
That's supposed to be rough?
Ten foot waves in an 18 foot boat. And the outboard runs out of
gas. And you're close to the rocks. In a nor'east gale with water
running just a few degrees above freezing.
--
Keith
Morgan E. Smith
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000, Steve Taylor wrote:
> Joe Mason wrote:
>
> >>A porn film called The Uranus Experiment featured some zero gee sex and a zero
> >>gee "cum shot."
>
> >>Sounds messy.
> >>
> >>(And no, I didn't see it.)
>
> > Boggle. How'd they film it?
>
> In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long dive during
> which the interior is effectively zero-g.
>
> I'm not even sure I *like* the idea of zero-g sex. After all, gravity is
> pretty handy for keeping you both stuck to the same surface...
I warn you all now, if this discussion goes on much longer, I will
subject you all to my reminiscence of my experience as a fifteen-year-old
at my first science-fiction convention - otherwise known as "The first
time I Heard the Words 'Sex in Zero-G' ".
Morgan Smith
Morgan E. Smith
On 21 Jul 2000, Cornell wrote:
> Brenda W. Clough, author of DOORS OF DEATH AND LIFE wrote:
> >> Call down the divine fire, and we will hail you as a true prophet of your
> >god. Or
> >> don't, and let your diety be revealed as a false baal, mere stone and
> >wood.
> >>
> >
> >Easy to see why you can make a living out of writing.
> >
>
> How much does she pull in a year?
There we have it, folks: the unmistakable marking of the commonplace mind.
Morgan Smith
Marilee J. Layman
>There is more than one teacher uses/ has used Flight as curriculum.
Names and school districts, please.
Brenda
Morgan E. Smith wrote:
Amen. And no true prophet, but merely a sounding cymbal. Doubtless the diety is
deep in thought, or engaged, or on a journey.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough, author of DOORS OF DEATH AND LIFE
From Tor Books in May 2000
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
<p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On 20 Jul 2000 16:28:34 GMT, mary_...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>
>>In article <f86ens0k5ucbhsv07...@4ax.com>,
>>p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net (Pete McCutchen) wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:47:25 +1000, Steve Taylor
>>><st...@tarms.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >In a plane doing the 'Vomit Comet' trick - i.e. - a long
>>>dive during which the interior is effectively zero-g.
>>>
>>> Am I the only person who would, like, pay good money to
>>>ride in that plane?
>>
>>No -- I can see a good few people in the queue ahead of you.
>>
>>I'm probably one of them; I'm just remembering quite how
>>little I enjoy throwing up...
>
>I don't think I would throw up, to be honest.
>
>I'm not at all prone to seasickness, and I've ridden both coasters and
>spinny-rides immediately after eating, with no ill effect whatsoever.
>
>There might very well be something, other than illness or extreme
>drunkenness, that could make me throw up, but I've certainly never
>experienced it.
A ride in a 15-foot boat on 5-foot waves made by a southern wind on
the Adriatic.
vlatko
--
vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr
Ayende Rahien
"Cornell" <tool...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20000720190120...@ng-fe1.aol.com...
And I would love to know about them.
Who are the generous services that gather as contensive archives as
Deja and offer access for free?
Cornell
>>Speaking of marketing,
>>would you agree that mudslinging other writers does not reflect well?
>
>It does if they're assholes.
Assholes sling something else:)
I wrote:
>>Not rational, I agree with you. Good thing you're not the only
>>one buying books out there. Vanna Bonta and Newt Gingrich. :)
>>Congratulations on your novel and let's hope others buy or don't
>>buy you for the work not your personality.
>
>Brenda scores points in both categories there. A damn fine writer, and a
>sweetie to boot! :-)
A sweetie would imply you know one another. Does that discount your praise for
her damn fine work?