Finding a ghost-co-writer for my technothriller
Gilad Maayan
of about 400 pages. Everyone who's read it says it's a real
page-turner, and I think it's fairly innovative in the genre. The
problem is, I'm not capable of finishing it. I've finally come to
terms with the fact that I may be a writer, but I'm not an expert on
military harware, tactics and strategy, nor am I intimately familiar
with politics and day-to-day operations at various agencies and in the
corridors of power. All the research I did couldn't make up for this,
and the book, as a result, is not believable.
It will be a great shame to throw away years of work, and what is
essentially a good book. So I've decided to look for a ghost-writer
(or a co-author, depending how you look at it) who can help me finish
it. I've been advised that the best way to do this is to find a good
writer in the genre who is published, but not hugely successful, and
contact him through his agent.
This is where I turn to you. Can anyone think of a writer of
geo-political technothrillers, similar to the work of Tom Clancy, who
is good but not hugely successful? Someone who writes well, but may be
"hungry" enough to consider working on someone else's book (mine)?
I should mention that my novel is set in the future (although I
wouldn't call it SF), has a strong mafia element, and is stylistically
close to film-noir and cyberpunk. You might say, a cross between Tom
Clancy, Mario Puzo and William Gibson (or in an earlier incarnation,
Raymond Chandler). There is also a sprinkling of intelligence,
terrorism, and urban warfare.
Your help will be much appreciated!
Best regards,
Gilad Maayan
steve miller
wrotD:
>Hi everyone. I spent several years writing a political techno-thriller
>of about 400 pages. Everyone who's read it says it's a real
>page-turner, and I think it's fairly innovative in the genre. The
>problem is, I'm not capable of finishing it. I've finally come to
>terms with the fact that I may be a writer, but I'm not an expert on
>military harware, tactics and strategy, nor am I intimately familiar
>with politics and day-to-day operations at various agencies and in the
>corridors of power. All the research I did couldn't make up for this,
>and the book, as a result, is not believable.
Unless you have the cash on hand to pay a writer for a year of work --
upfront -- you aren't looking for a ghost. You're looking for a
co-author -- someone willing to spend time on a project that might or
might not pay off. In fact, if they've got publication credits
already, you may need to cede first position on the book to them.
Otherwise what you have is just another unpublishable pile of paper,
of which the world has many already.
Steve
PS -- a lot of what you're describing as needing done might have been
better addressed by research during the draft. Many people sucessfully
write books dealing fairly accurately with places and things they
haven't experienced. Librariesd are our friends, as are
willing-to-talk experts.
Balance of Trade -- A Locus "New and Notable" Book
http://locusmag.com/2004/Monitor/Books03a.html
"Striking characters, adventure, and the business of trading mix for
great fun in this nicely self-contained novel..." CC
Gilad Maayan
> Unless you have the cash on hand to pay a writer for a year of work --
> upfront --
I have the cash. I'm hoping the writer sees the potential of the book
and will accept less cash in exchange for a share of the earnings. But
I'm not counting on it.
>You're looking for a co-author. ... you may need to cede first
position on the book to them.
You're right, I think that's a better description of the work, and I
am willing to consider ceding the first position, under certain
conditions.
> PS -- a lot of what you're describing as needing done might have been
> better addressed by research during the draft.
I spent three years in the library, but I just couldn't get it
right...
So do you have any potential co-authors in mind?
--Gilad
Mary Gentle
gdma...@hotmail.com (Gilad Maayan) wrote:
> Hi Steve, thanks for your reply.
>
> > Unless you have the cash on hand to pay a writer for a year of work --
> > upfront --
>
> I have the cash. I'm hoping the writer sees the potential of the book
> and will accept less cash in exchange for a share of the earnings. But
> I'm not counting on it.
I wouldn't. Most writers are going to look at the proposition, realise
that chances of publication aren't that terrific -- and will in any case
take quite a while to materialise -- and want the money upfront.
> >You're looking for a co-author. ... you may need to cede first
> position on the book to them.
>
> You're right, I think that's a better description of the work, and I
> am willing to consider ceding the first position, under certain
> conditions.
>
> > PS -- a lot of what you're describing as needing done might have been
> > better addressed by research during the draft.
>
> I spent three years in the library, but I just couldn't get it
> right...
[...]
Not to be funny, or anything, but... if you're doing techno-thrillers and
you can't fake the tech stuff after three years in the library, are you
sure this is the genre you actually want to be working in?
Bearing in mind that you're not actually supposed to be _qualified_ in the
technological fields, just knowledgeable enough about them that the
informed reader can read the novel without going "well, that's a load of
rubbish".
What is it that attracts you to that field in particular?
> So do you have any potential co-authors in mind?
There are people who do set up as fiction 'assistants' in a particular
field - Jack Cohen for alien biology, frex - and who have no wish to write
novels themselves. So it's not impossible that there are tech-people who
do the same, but I'm not sure where you'd find them, or go about checking
their credentials.
Mary
Eric Jarvis
>
> There are people who do set up as fiction 'assistants' in a particular
> field - Jack Cohen for alien biology, frex - and who have no wish to write
> novels themselves. So it's not impossible that there are tech-people who
> do the same, but I'm not sure where you'd find them, or go about checking
> their credentials.
>
I assume that the easiest way would be to look at the dedications and
acknowledgements in a range of books in that field and see who is being
credited with giving technical help.
--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
steve miller
wrotD:
>So do you have any potential co-authors in mind?
Most of the people I know who might be able to do it already have
work.
Perhaps your bet is to put a classified ad in Locus.
Steve
Mary Gentle
w...@ericjarvis.co.uk (Eric Jarvis) wrote:
> Mary Gentle mary_...@cix.co.uk wrote:
> >
> > There are people who do set up as fiction 'assistants' in a
> > particular field - Jack Cohen for alien biology, frex - and who have
> > no wish to write novels themselves. So it's not impossible that
> > there are tech-people who do the same, but I'm not sure where you'd
> > find them, or go about checking their credentials.
> >
>
> I assume that the easiest way would be to look at the dedications and
> acknowledgements in a range of books in that field and see who is being
> credited with giving technical help.
That's a good idea; didn't think of that.
Except I can see a sort of Catch-22, in that you need enough of a layman's
knowledge of the subject to know which acknowledgements are in good books,
and which ones are in lemons. (And then again, you don't know whether
that was the fault of the writer or the researcher.)
Mary
John Dallman
> day-to-day operations at various agencies and in the corridors of power.
> This is where I turn to you. Can anyone think of a writer of
> geo-political technothrillers, similar to the work of Tom Clancy, who
> is good but not hugely successful? Someone who writes well, but may be
> "hungry" enough to consider working on someone else's book (mine)?
Having a known writer will help you get published. But given the current
success of the genre, and the appalling quality of much of the stuff that
gets published, I think you're unlikely to find anyone with any reputation
who wants the work.
It doesn't seem to be strictly needed for the problem you describe,
though. You reckon you can write, but you can't be convincing on some
subjects. I can do the hardware/tactics/strategy bit to a moderate
standard, but I don't really want to be a full-time writer. Mail me one of
your problem bits plus some context, and I'll see what I can make of it?
Your postings are literate enough that you have to be better than the last
unpublished writer I tried reading.
---
John Dallman, j...@cix.co.uk, HTML mail is treated as probable spam.
Gilad Maayan
> you can't fake the tech stuff after three years in the library, are you
> sure this is the genre you actually want to be working in?
:) Actually, I'm sure it's not my genre. I gave up techno-thrillers,
and novels, long ago and I'm now a fairly successful Hebrew poet
(seriously). I also own a technical writing firm, which doesn't leave
me time to write big works of fiction. But I spent a large portion of
my life writing this book, and I don't want to throw it away.
Can't you think of anyone who would want to partner with me on this
project? I simply don't have the time to fix the novel on my own, but
it really is promising. I'm convinced it's a bestseller,
notwithstanding its large, but hopefully repairable, flaws. And I'm
prepared to pay for the help.
Silvasurfa
> This is where I turn to you. Can anyone think of a writer of
> geo-political technothrillers, similar to the work of Tom Clancy, who
> is good but not hugely successful? Someone who writes well, but may be
> "hungry" enough to consider working on someone else's book (mine)?
If I were in your situation and I was silly enough to be determined to
pay for the manuscript to be whipped into shape, I'd be contacting
reputable agents to see if any of their writers would be willing to do
the job for adequate recompense. Mid-list writers aren't always proud
and are easy to procure if you go to their agents. To misquote a
memorable movie line, for $50,000 we love your book long time baby!
A better idea would be writing about topics that don't make you look
like an idiot in the first place.
Harry Erwin
>
> Not to be funny, or anything, but... if you're doing techno-thrillers and
> you can't fake the tech stuff after three years in the library, are you
> sure this is the genre you actually want to be working in?
>
> Bearing in mind that you're not actually supposed to be _qualified_ in the
> technological fields, just knowledgeable enough about them that the
> informed reader can read the novel without going "well, that's a load of
> rubbish".
>
> What is it that attracts you to that field in particular?
>
> > So do you have any potential co-authors in mind?
>
> There are people who do set up as fiction 'assistants' in a particular
> field - Jack Cohen for alien biology, frex - and who have no wish to write
> novels themselves. So it's not impossible that there are tech-people who
> do the same, but I'm not sure where you'd find them, or go about checking
> their credentials.
>
> Mary
I consult on bats (see .sig for details).
--
Harry Erwin <http://www.theworld.com/~herwin/>
Tim S
> In article <MPG.1af9b7e68...@news.individual.net>,
> w...@ericjarvis.co.uk (Eric Jarvis) wrote:
>
>> Mary Gentle mary_...@cix.co.uk wrote:
>>>
>>> There are people who do set up as fiction 'assistants' in a
>>> particular field - Jack Cohen for alien biology, frex - and who have
>>> no wish to write novels themselves. So it's not impossible that
>>> there are tech-people who do the same, but I'm not sure where you'd
>>> find them, or go about checking their credentials.
>>>
>>
>> I assume that the easiest way would be to look at the dedications and
>> acknowledgements in a range of books in that field and see who is being
>> credited with giving technical help.
>
> That's a good idea; didn't think of that.
>
> Except I can see a sort of Catch-22, in that you need enough of a layman's
> knowledge of the subject to know which acknowledgements are in good books,
> and which ones are in lemons.
And you have to know you need to heat the lemon juice to make it visible, or
you won't be able to read the acknowledgements at all!
Tim
Mary Gentle
> > Not to be funny, or anything, but... if you're doing techno-thrillers
> > and you can't fake the tech stuff after three years in the library,
> > are you sure this is the genre you actually want to be working in?
>
> :) Actually, I'm sure it's not my genre. I gave up techno-thrillers,
> and novels, long ago and I'm now a fairly successful Hebrew poet
> (seriously).
Cool.
>I also own a technical writing firm, which doesn't leave
> me time to write big works of fiction.
Well, we could have the 'there's always time to write if you want to'
discussion, but consider it read. :)
>But I spent a large portion of
> my life writing this book, and I don't want to throw it away.
That's understandable, I think.
> Can't you think of anyone who would want to partner with me on this
> project? I simply don't have the time to fix the novel on my own, but
> it really is promising. I'm convinced it's a bestseller,
> notwithstanding its large, but hopefully repairable, flaws. And I'm
> prepared to pay for the help.
Well, not to be pessimistic, but everybody's convinced their book is a
potential bestseller. Then again, _somebody_ has to be right. And I
think the fact that you're prepared to pay for the research help will
stand in your favour.
You could do worse than take up John Dallman's offer further down-thread
-- John's capable of explaining techie stuff to /me/ so that I can
understand it, and I'm about as technological as a breeze block. :) So
I'd think he could phrase things in a way that the lay reader would find
accessible.
Mary
Most recently published:
1610: A SUNDIAL IN A GRAVE, novel, Orion UK, hc & tpb
CARTOMANCY, short story collection, Orion UK, pb
Gilad Maayan
> like an idiot in the first place.
Well, I gave it one big try and then admitted failure and moved on.
It's not like I've been writing idiotic techno-thrillers for twenty
years.
As for agents, can you give me some names? None of the directories
seem to refer to the genres I'm after.
Catja Pafort
> I have the cash. I'm hoping the writer sees the potential of the book
> and will accept less cash in exchange for a share of the earnings. But
> I'm not counting on it.
Cash is good. Shares in cloud-cuckoo-land aren't.
If I am to see potential in a book, and invest a lot of time and sweat
in it, and push it to my agent, then, sorry, I'm going to pick a topic
and characters and a story that *I* am interested in and into which I
can invest 150%.
I can see why someone would be ghost-writing your book for payment. I
fail to see why someone competent would do it for love and the vague
hope that it might be published and earn out its advance.
Catja
Mary Gentle
I'd be inclined to look through The Writers & Artists Yearbook, or The
Writers Handbook - the first has been issued yearly since god-knows-when,
and the second is a newer and slightly more chatty version of the same
thing. They both cover international listings (although they cover UK,
Commonwealth, and USA in more detail).
Oddly enough, Amazon appears to be selling them as a pair...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0713666595/026-4847226-3729259
...although I would have thought you really only needed one.
But they have agent listings, as well as publishers, and the usual gubbins
about how to submit a manuscript, legal stuff, and taxes - and it wouldn't
surprise me if they had a bit about hiring research help or co-writers,
though I've never looked to see.
Gilad Maayan
> > seem to refer to the genres I'm after.
> >
>
> I'd be inclined to look through The Writers & Artists Yearbook
Thanks for the tip, I've ordered it. But still, I'm sure some of you
are familiar with agents who are particularly active in this field. It
will be difficult for me to single them out in a directory without
inside knowledge.
Can anyone give me the name of an agency specializing in
technothrillers?
Gilad Maayan
very helpful. But for some reason none of you (with the exception of
John Dallman, who graciously offered his own assistance) are willing
to give me actual names of writers or agencies. Even if someone
"already has work" they might be willing to help me, now or in the
future. Are you afraid I'll spam these authors with unsolicited copies
of my novel? That's exactly what I was hoping to avoid by asking you.
By the way, I slightly resent the patronising tone of some of your
posts. I think you should have a look at my novel before you call my
efforts "silly" or "an unpublishable pile of paper".
Mary Gentle
gdma...@hotmail.com (Gilad Maayan) wrote:
> > > As for agents, can you give me some names? None of the directories
> > > seem to refer to the genres I'm after.
> > >
> >
> > I'd be inclined to look through The Writers & Artists Yearbook
>
> Thanks for the tip, I've ordered it. But still, I'm sure some of you
> are familiar with agents who are particularly active in this field. It
> will be difficult for me to single them out in a directory without
> inside knowledge.
Actually, it won't - AFAIK, they all list their areas of particular
interest, so it's just a matter of tracking through and noting the ones
that say they're interested in technothrillers.
> Can anyone give me the name of an agency specializing in
> technothrillers?
>
There probably isn't one that's solely devoted to that; most agents have a
number of areas of specialisation.
Mary Gentle
> My sincere thanks for all your comments and advice, much of which was
> very helpful. But for some reason none of you (with the exception of
> John Dallman, who graciously offered his own assistance) are willing
> to give me actual names of writers or agencies. Even if someone
> "already has work" they might be willing to help me, now or in the
> future. Are you afraid I'll spam these authors with unsolicited copies
> of my novel? That's exactly what I was hoping to avoid by asking you.
Um, have you considered "we don't know" as a possible reason for that?
There's only a small overlap between sf and technothrillers, and it
wouldn't hugely surprise me if somebody did know - but OTOH, it doesn't in
the least surprise me that nobody seems to.
Personally, I've read three-quarters of a Tom Clancy(TM) hackwriter, and
not much else within the last decade, and all the agents I know tend to
work in sf/children's/TV/mainstream. This really isn't going to help you.
As far as _writers_ go, you're in the same position as the rest of us - go
look at the bookshelves, see who's writing the sort of thing you're
thinking of, and look up details of their publisher, and agent if you can
find it. (Possibly an author's web site will mention their agent, or an
agent's listing will mention their big name clients.)
If there's a group for technothriller writers, you'd be better off asking
there. You might even get more of an overlap in the sf science newsgroup,
on account of there's probably a crossover readership who posts there.
But at the moment, you're standing in the greengrocers and loudly
complaining that they don't sell bread...
> By the way, I slightly resent the patronising tone of some of your
> posts. I think you should have a look at my novel before you call my
> efforts "silly" or "an unpublishable pile of paper".
_Everybody_ thinks that people should "have a look" -- but if you have
acquaintance with publisher's slush piles, you know that statistics
suggest you won't be as good a writer as you think you are.
OTOH, every so often, somebody's correct and they _are_ a good writer.
It's not a 50:50 chance, so you can't be surprised if there's a certain
amount of natural cynicism around. And it probably doesn't help that
you're in the position of needing a technical advisor -- there being a
popular perception that you're supposed to be able to fudge it all on your
own.
I don't think there's anything wrong in using technical advisors,
personally; I've had some who were invaluable. I _can_ see why people
find it a bit head-scratching that someone should start writing in a genre
in which they can't fudge the basics -- but then again, I've had stories
that took me out of my areas of knowledge, so I know what it's like to be
led down those roads...
If you do find any good sources on agents for technothrillers, I do hope
you'll mention them here -- it never hurts to have this kind of
information squirrelled away.
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> _Everybody_ thinks that people should "have a look" -- but if you have
> acquaintance with publisher's slush piles, you know that statistics
> suggest you won't be as good a writer as you think you are.
>
> OTOH, every so often, somebody's correct and they _are_ a good writer.
Yes, if you've written a good book, it's just a matter of waiting until
it takes its turn on the slushreader's desk, where it will basically
jump around shining. The trick is writing the good book, of course.
--
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan - ada...@spamcop.net - this is a valid address
homepage: http://www.fantascienza.net/sfpeople/elethiomel
English blog: http://annafdd.blogspot.com/
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/annafdd/
Julia Jones
Dal Dan <ada...@spamcop.net> writes
>Mary Gentle <mary_...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> _Everybody_ thinks that people should "have a look" -- but if you have
>> acquaintance with publisher's slush piles, you know that statistics
>> suggest you won't be as good a writer as you think you are.
>>
>> OTOH, every so often, somebody's correct and they _are_ a good writer.
>
>Yes, if you've written a good book, it's just a matter of waiting until
>it takes its turn on the slushreader's desk, where it will basically
>jump around shining. The trick is writing the good book, of course.
The voice of painful experience... What was your score in the end? I
vaguely recall you saying that you'd seen at least one thing that didn't
sear the eyeballs.
--
Julia Jones
"We are English of Borg. Your language will be assimilated."
Patricia C. Wrede
news:memo.2004050...@roxanne.morgan.ntlworld.com...
> In article <50f45bed.04050...@posting.google.com>,
> gdma...@hotmail.com (Gilad Maayan) wrote:
>
> > My sincere thanks for all your comments and advice, much of which was
> > very helpful. But for some reason none of you (with the exception of
> > John Dallman, who graciously offered his own assistance) are willing
> > to give me actual names of writers or agencies. Even if someone
> > "already has work" they might be willing to help me, now or in the
> > future. Are you afraid I'll spam these authors with unsolicited copies
> > of my novel? That's exactly what I was hoping to avoid by asking you.
>
> Um, have you considered "we don't know" as a possible reason for that?
>
> There's only a small overlap between sf and technothrillers, and it
> wouldn't hugely surprise me if somebody did know - but OTOH, it doesn't in
> the least surprise me that nobody seems to.
>
> Personally, I've read three-quarters of a Tom Clancy(TM) hackwriter, and
> not much else within the last decade, and all the agents I know tend to
> work in sf/children's/TV/mainstream. This really isn't going to help you.
What you said. Except that I don't know any TV/mainstream agents that I can
think of.
All the writers I know a) don't write that kind of stuff, b) don't do this
kind of collaboration, and c) are all busy with current projects, with more
stacked up waiting to land, like airplanes circling a fogged-in airport that
are starting to run out of fuel.
And if I *did* know somebody who had time, energy, and ability for this
(note hypothetical, please), I wouldn't hand out his/her name unless I was
fairly sure the project was something that would appeal to him/her, which I
couldn't do without looking at it myself. Which *I* don't have time for.
I'm coming in late on this thread, but...does this writer intend to be a
one-book wonder, or does he/she actually want to have a career in writing?
If he/she wants a career, do they want it specifically in writing
technothrillers, or would some other type of book be OK? Because if they
want a career, they're either looking for a really long-term collaborator,
or else they're going to have to learn how to do the research/tech stuff
themselves (or fake it), or else they're going to have to write something
that doesn't *need* the research and techie stuff. I expect somebody has
already pointed this out...
Patricia C. Wrede
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
It wasn't the kind of stuff we would publish, though.
Two days ago I passed the fiction editor's desk and she sighed: "We must
find some other way to get new writers, I've read 25 manuscripts
yesterday and there wasn't even one decent novel."
David Friedman
ada...@spamcop.net (Anna Feruglio Dal Dan) wrote:
> Julia Jones <julia...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
>
...
> > >Yes, if you've written a good book, it's just a matter of waiting until
> > >it takes its turn on the slushreader's desk, where it will basically
> > >jump around shining. The trick is writing the good book, of course.
Is it that simple?
There are successful books that I don't like--and probably some I
wouldn't recognize as likely to succeed. Editors are presumably better
at it than I am, but I would still think that, even for a good book, it
would take several tries to be reasonably sure of hitting at least one
reader who liked the kind of book you wanted to write.
--
Remove NOSPAM to email
Also remove .invalid
www.daviddfriedman.com
James A. Donald
Dal Dan <ada...@spamcop.net> writes
> Yes, if you've written a good book, it's just a matter of
> waiting until it takes its turn on the slushreader's desk,
> where it will basically jump around shining. The trick is
> writing the good book, of course.
I don't think so.
Writers write for essentially non monetary reasons, and the
financial rewards are pitiful. Thus there is no reason to
expect supply to equal demand -- rather, one would expect that
the supply of good fiction books to be published far exceeds
the number that can be published, and that most of the
slushpile goes uninspected, or is ruthlessly winnowed on the
basis of criteria far more restrictive than "is this a good
book"
This conjecture is confirmed by reading self published comics
and web comics. It is clear that the supply of good comics far
exceeds the number of published comics, which suggests that the
same may well be true of fiction books
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
PWoA/wANQnGeklem/m/7iQntnfKPUDV+uF79QI8d
4kTeT7Y7VlResrC0dcSChEZqlui7U0xwtFfuh3maV
Gilad Maayan
> one-book wonder, or does he/she actually want to have a career in writing?
Erm, since I only have one techno-thriller, and will probably never
have the time to write another, one-book-wonder it is. I'm a poet now.
Gilad Maayan
Guess not... [Tried and failed to conjure up an embarrassed-smile
emoticon.] I figured everyone posting on this thread was in the
"technothriller bunch." The reason I posted here in the first place
was that, when I searched for the term "technothriller" in Google
groups, this one had by far the highest occurrence of the term (and
many actual posts on the subject, as far as I could tell). Thanks for
trying to help anyway :)
> If there's a group for technothriller writers, you'd be better off asking
> there.
I wasn't able to find one, but if anyone can point me in its
direction, that would be nice..
> But at the moment, you're standing in the greengrocers and loudly
> complaining that they don't sell bread...
Some broccoli will do. Thanks.
> _Everybody_ thinks that people should "have a look" -- but if you have
> acquaintance with publisher's slush piles, you know that statistics
> suggest you won't be as good a writer as you think you are.
This is where I shout out the perfunctory "but you don't understand, I
really am good," right?
> If you do find any good sources on agents for technothrillers, I do hope
> you'll mention them here -- it never hurts to have this kind of
> information squirrelled away.
I surely will.
Gilad Maayan
> financial rewards are pitiful. Thus there is no reason to
> expect supply to equal demand -- rather, one would expect that
> the supply of good fiction books to be published far exceeds
> the number that can be published, and that most of the
> slushpile goes uninspected, or is ruthlessly winnowed on the
> basis of criteria far more restrictive than "is this a good
> book"
I suspect that the biggest hurdle in fiction is basic writing ability.
Publishers throw out most manuscripts because they're poorly written
all round (and thus uneditable), not because the book is "good" or
"bad." I'm in the business of recruiting writers for work far less
lofty and less demanding than full-length novels (technical writing
and the like), and I'm forced to throw out 95% of candidates - many of
them with experience - because they can't form a sentence.
Eric Jarvis
> > Um, have you considered "we don't know" as a possible reason for that?
>
> Guess not... [Tried and failed to conjure up an embarrassed-smile
> emoticon.] I figured everyone posting on this thread was in the
> "technothriller bunch." The reason I posted here in the first place
> was that, when I searched for the term "technothriller" in Google
> groups, this one had by far the highest occurrence of the term (and
> many actual posts on the subject, as far as I could tell). Thanks for
> trying to help anyway :)
>
I suspect that's largely because this group is fairly high traffic as
writing newsgroups go. It's also likely that in a group where a lot of the
writers actually create technothrillers the word "technothriller" will
almost never be used. They will have a range of far more precise terms to
differentiate between, what to the rest of us are indistinguishable,
categories of story.
Patricia C. Wrede
"Gilad Maayan" <gdma...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:50f45bed.04050...@posting.google.com...
OK -- next question is, do you really want to make money on it, or just get
it in good enough shape to publish and get out of your hair? Because if you
want to actually make some minimal amount of cash, you probably need a
co-author, and as you've discovered, they're kind of hard to find,
especially for a one-shot project. But if you don't care so much about
actually earning anything, you *might* try hiring a book doctor.
Usually, this is a bad idea for a would-be author, for a number of reasons
(starting with the fact that you'll probably have to pay a decent book
doctor as much as you're likely to get back as an advance...and you'll have
to pay it up front, with no guarantee that the book will actually sell and
you'll get the money back). Working with a book doctor doesn't teach you
any of the writing skills you need to write your next book...but if you
don't *want* to write a next book, that doesn't matter. And you do have to
be quite careful of scams.
Unfortunately, I still can't recommend anybody, as the very few legit book
doctors I know do SF/F, not technothrillers. You might have to resort to
looking at ads in the writing magazines and checking references (and if you
do this, BE SURE you get and check references -- see above comment about
scams).
Sorry not to be of more help.
Patricia C. wrede
Brenda W. Clough
>
>Unfortunately, I still can't recommend anybody, as the very few legit book
>doctors I know do SF/F, not technothrillers.
>
>
>
I could possibly find a few people who would do it. Gilad, go back and
re-read every word of Patricia's posting. Consider carefully if a book
doctor is really what you want. If the answer is yes, email me.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Recent short fiction: PARADOX, Autumn 2003
http://home.nyc.rr.com/paradoxmag//index.html
Upcoming short fiction in FIRST HEROES (TOR, May '04)
http://members.aol.com/wenamun/firstheroes.html
David Friedman
Frost comments somewhere that, relative to the demand, there is more
poetry produced than anything else. A different version of a point made
a little up thread for fiction.
James A. Donald
James A. Donald:
> > Writers write for essentially non monetary reasons, and the
> > financial rewards are pitiful. Thus there is no reason to
> > expect supply to equal demand -- rather, one would expect
> > that the supply of good fiction books to be published far
> > exceeds the number that can be published, and that most of
> > the slushpile goes uninspected, or is ruthlessly winnowed
> > on the basis of criteria far more restrictive than "is this
> > a good book"
Gilad Maayan
> I suspect that the biggest hurdle in fiction is basic writing
> ability.
Doubtless it is true that most manuscripts are thrown out for
basic bad writing, but the converse does not follow: It does
not follow that most well written manuscripts, or even many
well written manuscripts, will be published rather than thrown
out - merely that their publication rate will be higher - near
zero, rather than as close to zero.as makes no difference.
> I'm in the business of recruiting writers for work far less
> lofty and less demanding than full-length novels (technical
> writing and the like), and I'm forced to throw out 95% of
> candidates - many of them with experience - because they
> can't form a sentence.
I do technical writing, and I do not believe it is "less
demanding that full length novels. I think it is considerably
more demanding.
Rather, most technical writing is shit, but gets published
anyway. It is not that technical writing is less demanding, it
is that publishers of technical writing are less demanding -
they are not bombarded with submissions from eager writers
begging on bended knee that their novels be published.
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
4ijz7qKNrvBO1Bjs0fKBBB3nVRDfg2MpWCxhPXm
4B+f4z8S6uQBgG/gqfSbKYnbA8aqVKEdK/vdIegDd
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> I suspect that the biggest hurdle in fiction is basic writing ability.
> Publishers throw out most manuscripts because they're poorly written
> all round (and thus uneditable), not because the book is "good" or
> "bad."
"Poorly written" is one of the several reasons we think a book is "bad".
Others include, but are not limited to: the author is so much in love
with their prose they don't let you see the plot, or don't have one; the
author is telling in excruciating detail either the story of his life
and his group of friends', or illustrating his new exiting cosmological
vision, or reinventing the wheel.
Mary K. Kuhner
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>"Poorly written" is one of the several reasons we think a book is "bad".
>Others include, but are not limited to: the author is so much in love
>with their prose they don't let you see the plot, or don't have one; the
>author is telling in excruciating detail either the story of his life
>and his group of friends', or illustrating his new exiting cosmological
>vision, or reinventing the wheel.
I have the impression that in US slushpiles "playing in someone
else's sandbox" is also a major cause for rejection. There is no
way that most publishers can buy a Star Trek novel, a Star
Wars novel, or a Forgotten Realms novel; but writers keep sending them
anyway.
"Reinventing the wheel" was a big one on Critters. I was particularly
struck by the number of iterations of "The nice-looking alien is Evil
and the ugly one is Good"--a story that could still work but you'd
need to do something pretty good with it, because that surprise ending
is not going to be enough.
Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> "Reinventing the wheel" was a big one on Critters. I was particularly
> struck by the number of iterations of "The nice-looking alien is Evil
> and the ugly one is Good"--a story that could still work but you'd
> need to do something pretty good with it, because that surprise ending
> is not going to be enough.
Strange Horizons has a page about it that's worth reading:
http://www.strangehorizons.com/guidelines/fiction-common.shtml
Patricia C. Wrede
news:c7md8n$gv4$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
> "Reinventing the wheel" was a big one on Critters. I was particularly
> struck by the number of iterations of "The nice-looking alien is Evil
> and the ugly one is Good"--a story that could still work but you'd
> need to do something pretty good with it, because that surprise ending
> is not going to be enough.
My favorite twist on that is the James White story in which the aliens
resembled teddy bears, and human beings resembled a vicious, repulsive
predator that had a taste for the aliens' infants. The mistaken
first-impressions and assumptions end up causing a war.
Patricia C. Wrede
Brian Pickrell
> Mary Gentle <mary_...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > _Everybody_ thinks that people should "have a look" -- but if you have
> > acquaintance with publisher's slush piles, you know that statistics
> > suggest you won't be as good a writer as you think you are.
> >
> > OTOH, every so often, somebody's correct and they _are_ a good writer.
>
> Yes, if you've written a good book, it's just a matter of waiting until
> it takes its turn on the slushreader's desk, where it will basically
> jump around shining.
Like an anchovy on the deck of a fishing boat? They never come to any good end.
Catja Pafort
> "Reinventing the wheel" was a big one on Critters. I was particularly
> struck by the number of iterations of "The nice-looking alien is Evil
> and the ugly one is Good"--a story that could still work but you'd
> need to do something pretty good with it, because that surprise ending
> is not going to be enough.
Well, formulaic does not stop a book from being published, but I suppose
as time goes on, and the bar gets nudged ever so slightly higher, it
will make matters worse.
I am currently reading a very disappointing book by Andre Norton. It is
so formulaic that every time something 'unexpected' happens, I yawn -
you've got the foundling thrown out of his family group by the evil
priest, you've got the unexpected magical help he gets, you've got a
couple of McGuffins, you've got the wise (and rich!) scholar who gives
his life purpose, said scholar is misunderstood in his quest for
knowledge, and so far I don't care one iota for any of the characters
because I've seen them before. Many times.
Yet such a novel could work if the tropes weren't as obvious, the
writing is superb rather than adequate, and there are not just new
twists to the story, (it's a fantasy in space - you get both mysterious
inner powers and spaceships), but genuinely new insights into the
characters' minds.
I'm not holding my breath; and I would hope that publishers don't,
either.
Catja
R. L. Delamancha
wrote:
I bet he doesn't know he has 2.4 children, either.
R.L.
--
at houseboatonthestyx
Julian Flood
"Anna Feruglio Dal Dan" wrote
> Strange Horizons has a page about it that's worth reading:
>
> http://www.strangehorizons.com/guidelines/fiction-common.shtml
Sort of on topic: there is the chance to co-author a short story by...
lessee... Weldon, Rankin, some more, at END OF STORY on the BBC website. Two
of them are fantasy, one is horror.
JF
Eric Jarvis
...and one is a bizarre comedy. Guess which I've gone for. :)