Stew
Helen Kenyon
haphazard researches into low tech camping and scouting techniques.
Considering that (following Diana Wynne Jones's denunciation of stew in
the _Tough Guide_) many people (including myself, I freely admit) were
sceptical about the practicalities of stew as a dish to be prepared on
the road, it seems that it is feasible after all.
-------------------
HUNTER'S STEW
Cut some lean meat or game into small pieces, brown it with fat in a
frying-pan, shuffling the pan so as to sear, but not burn the surface of
the meat. Then drop the meat into a kettle of boiling water and set it
to one side or hang it high over the fire so as to simmer. Later add
potatoes, onions, rice, and salt and pepper. It is essential that the
water shall not boil hard, but merely simmer after the meat and
vegetables are put in. The time varies according to the materials used;
cook until tender. Do not use any fat meat.
If a thick stew is desired, rub up a little flour into the grease left
in the frying-pan, and add water, stir, and let the mixture boil a
little, then stir this thickening into the stew a short time before it
is ready.
Almost any meat, vegetable, and cereal can be used in the stew.
--------------------
This was in _Scouting For Boys_ by Lord Baden-Powell. So, if our weary
travellers can quickly get a fire going and put a pot of water to boil,
one person can be slicing up the meat and veg while the others sort out
the horses (unsaddling, watering, feeding, tethering for the night) and
digging the latrine. Hopefully, the water will be boiling by the time
the ingredients are prepared, then the stew can simmer for say half an
hour, then have veg added, when it will need simmering again for a
further 20 mins to half an hour. I think the trick to making it edible
is in slicing the meat very small, as in a stir fry. This will enable
it to cook quickly. And people in the past were probably prepared to
chew much tougher meat than today's softies will tolerate.
Helen
--
Helen, Gwynedd, Wales *** http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk
Or try http://blaenau.members.beeb.net and follow the town trail
to see Blaenau Ffestiniog in glorious sunshine.
**Please delete the extra bit from e-mail address if replying by mail**
Brenda
Helen Kenyon wrote:
> -------------------
> HUNTER'S STEW
>
> Cut some lean meat or game into small pieces, brown it with fat in a
> frying-pan, shuffling the pan so as to sear, but not burn the surface of
> the meat. Then drop the meat into a kettle of boiling water and set it
> to one side or hang it high over the fire so as to simmer. Later add
> potatoes, onions, rice, and salt and pepper. It is essential that the
> water shall not boil hard, but merely simmer after the meat and
> vegetables are put in. The time varies according to the materials used;
> cook until tender. Do not use any fat meat.
>
> If a thick stew is desired, rub up a little flour into the grease left
> in the frying-pan, and add water, stir, and let the mixture boil a
> little, then stir this thickening into the stew a short time before it
> is ready.
>
> Almost any meat, vegetable, and cereal can be used in the stew.
> --------------------
I wonder why it says not to use any fatty meat? Fat is both nutritious and
flavorful.
And if you add legumes (chickpeas, lentils, etc.) the stew will thicken up
without further enhancement.
Brenda
---------
Brenda W. Clough, author of DOORS OF DEATH AND LIFE
From Tor Books in May 2000
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Doug Wickstrom
excited the ether to say:
>I wonder why it says not to use any fatty meat? Fat is both nutritious and
>flavorful.
This recipe uses wild game. The fat is what makes it taste
"gamey."
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Honto no ii katana wa saya ni haitteiru." --Tsubaki Sanjuro
Dorothy J Heydt
>
>Helen Kenyon wrote:
>
>I wonder why it says not to use any fatty meat? Fat is both nutritious and
>flavorful.
If the Scouts were bringing it along with them, it might have
gone rancid. If they were hunting wild game and cooking whatever
they caught, very likely the meat would not have much fat on it
in the first place.
Just guessing.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Jo Walton
gra...@dsl.ca "Graydon Saunders" writes:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:03:30 -0400,
> Brenda <clo...@erols.com> scripsit:
> >I wonder why it says not to use any fatty meat? Fat is both nutritious and
> >flavorful.
>
> Because fat effectively raised the boiling point, and gives you
> tougher stew and something fairly disgusting in the way of a
> kettle-cleaning job.
That explains why duck stew, which is by the very nature of it fatty, is
such a pain to simmer, and also so delicious when it works.
--
Jo J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
I kissed a kif at Kefk Take the rasfw pledge!
Poetry, Sulien Map & FAQ & other stuff at: http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk
*THE KING'S PEACE* out now from Tor Books and good bookshops everywhere.
Helen Kenyon
>
>I wonder why it says not to use any fatty meat? Fat is both nutritious and
>flavorful.
>
>without further enhancement.
>
>Brenda
>
greasy food. It makes me feel sick, if not actually be sick. Stew with
globules of grease floating on the top. Eugh! Perhaps this was a
personal foible of BP's too.
As for not adding thickening until the end, that makes a lot of sense as
it will tend to stick and burn. (Especially when using a thin camping
saucepan.) Better to thicken it when almost cooked.
Sylvia Li
>
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:02:43 GMT,
> Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> scripsit:
> >In article <slrn8uhpgb....@localhost.localdomain>
> > gra...@dsl.ca "Graydon Saunders" writes:
> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:03:30 -0400,
> >> Brenda <clo...@erols.com> scripsit:
> >> >flavorful.
> >>
> >> tougher stew and something fairly disgusting in the way of a
> >> kettle-cleaning job.
> >
> >That explains why duck stew, which is by the very nature of it fatty, is
> >such a pain to simmer, and also so delicious when it works.
>
>
> (roast goose is lovely. But even roasted goose is a no-no for soup.)
>
<grin> Just to disprove the categorical negative:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sdweatherford/Cooking/Recipes/Swwgooss.htm
(Uses goose breasts, and a crock-pot slow cooker.)
A number of traditional soup recipes do call for onions or garlic browned
in goose fat, too, but I suppose those don't count.
--
Sylvia Li
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
<ken...@baradel.demon.co.uk.please.delete.this> wrote:
>In article <39E8CA22...@erols.com>, Brenda <clo...@erols.com>
>writes
>>
>>I wonder why it says not to use any fatty meat? Fat is both nutritious and
>>flavorful.
>>
>>And if you add legumes (chickpeas, lentils, etc.) the stew will thicken up
>>without further enhancement.
>>
><Shrug> I really don't know about the fat, but personally, I can't stand
>greasy food. It makes me feel sick, if not actually be sick. Stew with
>globules of grease floating on the top. Eugh! Perhaps this was a
>personal foible of BP's too.
May I point out that skimming the fat after the stew (sauce, whatever)
is done is quite easy, and even obligatory in some recipes I have?
vlatko
--
vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr
jhe...@my-deja.com
That's for affluent societies. In food-scarce economies, fat is
considered _good_.
(I know my attitude towards greasy food changes radically after a few
days' backpacking and climbing mountains. My wife is a small woman and
generally eats very little, but we came down from a week in the hills
and she _inhaled_ a 16 oz. steak. Then she stared at my plate and
wondered if I planned to eat all those fries....) (Yes, I _did_,
dammit!)
--
Jim
"I am but mad north-northwest: when the wind is southerly I know a
hawk from a handsaw."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
jhe...@my-deja.com
meta...@escape.ca wrote:
>
> <grin> Just to disprove the categorical negative:
>
>
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sdweatherford/Cooking/Recipes/S
wwgooss.htm
>
> (Uses goose breasts, and a crock-pot slow cooker.)
>
> A number of traditional soup recipes do call for onions or garlic
browned
> in goose fat, too, but I suppose those don't count.
>
Goose grease is one of the preferred cooking fats for pastry.
Peter Knutsen
Brenda wrote:
> I wonder why it says not to use any fatty meat? Fat is both nutritious and
> flavorful.
Stuff micronutrituion and aesthetics(sp?), if you've been doing
hard physical labour all day (such as walking through wilderness,
carrying 30 kilograms of gear) you want lots of calories, as fast
as possible. And fat contains more calories per weight unit than
any other type of food.
Not that I like fat, I find most fat-rich food unpleasant, but if
I were a medieval farmer or soldier, instead of a physically lazy
student and amateur author, I know I'd think differently.
Maybe there is a chemical reason for why you can't make stew out
of fat-rich meat (I wondered too)
> And if you add legumes (chickpeas, lentils, etc.) the stew will thicken up
> without further enhancement.
Legumes are good! Lots of protein to go with the fat. They're also
good to grow for the farmer (requires less fertilizer).
> Brenda
--
Peter Knutsen
Jo Walton
gra...@dsl.ca "Graydon Saunders" writes:
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:02:43 GMT,
> Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> scripsit:
> >In article <slrn8uhpgb....@localhost.localdomain>
> > gra...@dsl.ca "Graydon Saunders" writes:
> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:03:30 -0400,
> >> Brenda <clo...@erols.com> scripsit:
> >> >I wonder why it says not to use any fatty meat? Fat is both nutritious and
> >> >flavorful.
> >>
> >> Because fat effectively raised the boiling point, and gives you
> >> tougher stew and something fairly disgusting in the way of a
> >> kettle-cleaning job.
> >
> >That explains why duck stew, which is by the very nature of it fatty, is
> >such a pain to simmer, and also so delicious when it works.
>
> And why no one ever has receipes for goose soup, too.
Errr... if you'd like one, I have one.
> (roast goose is lovely. But even roasted goose is a no-no for soup.)
Roast goose is one of my favourite things.
I have made soup with a roast goose carcase. And my stepmother used to
do it regularly.
The secret is getting rid of as much grease as possible and then pearl
barley, lots and lots of pearl barley straight away to soak up the fat.
Mmmm, goose stew.
Brenda
jhe...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <42qjusgghobd13u5d...@news.tel.hr>,
> Vlatko Juric-Kokic <vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr> wrote:
> > On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:51:47 +0100, Helen Kenyon
> > <ken...@baradel.demon.co.uk.please.delete.this> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <39E8CA22...@erols.com>, Brenda <clo...@erols.com>
> > >writes
> > >>
> > >>I wonder why it says not to use any fatty meat? Fat is both
> nutritious and
> > >>flavorful.
> > >>
> > >>And if you add legumes (chickpeas, lentils, etc.) the stew will
> thicken up
> > >>without further enhancement.
> > >>
> > ><Shrug> I really don't know about the fat, but personally, I can't
> stand
> > >greasy food. It makes me feel sick, if not actually be sick. Stew
> with
> > >globules of grease floating on the top. Eugh! Perhaps this was a
> > >personal foible of BP's too.
> >
> > May I point out that skimming the fat after the stew (sauce, whatever)
> > is done is quite easy, and even obligatory in some recipes I have?
> >
>
> That's for affluent societies. In food-scarce economies, fat is
> considered _good_.
>
> (I know my attitude towards greasy food changes radically after a few
> days' backpacking and climbing mountains. My wife is a small woman and
> generally eats very little, but we came down from a week in the hills
> and she _inhaled_ a 16 oz. steak. Then she stared at my plate and
> wondered if I planned to eat all those fries....) (Yes, I _did_,
> dammit!)
Yep, that was my thought. Fat-free is only desireable in a culture where
all the food is loaded with fat, and nobody does anything more energetic
than hitting the 'enter' key. In earlier times everyone knew that fat was
where it was at. In one of the Irish epics the poet dreams about a castle
built of pork. And archaeologists know that human beings have been at the
animal bones in a dig, when they're cracked to extract the fatty marrow.
Brenda
--
Brenda
Peter Knutsen wrote:
> > And if you add legumes (chickpeas, lentils, etc.) the stew will thicken up
> > without further enhancement.
>
> Legumes are good! Lots of protein to go with the fat. They're also
> good to grow for the farmer (requires less fertilizer).
Not to mention cheap, a very important feature. And easy to store and carry.
You can keep a lentil-laden stew from sticking by being sure the broth has enough
water in it -- this also stretches out the potful, and makes for more servings.
I suspect the recipe was making a virtue of a necessity, since most game meat is
nearly fat free.
Thomas Womack
> Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> scripsit:
> >That explains why duck stew, which is by the very nature of it fatty, is
> >such a pain to simmer, and also so delicious when it works.
>
Sulien had goose and turnip soup thickened with barley in chapter 30, though
maybe it helped that those were wild geese.
To find which chapter took me several minutes, even knowing what the
paragraph looked like: visual grepping is not quick, and turning pages
becomes a major factor. Confusticate the non-greppability of this paper
novel, and my ability to remember 'near start of chapter' but not which
chapter ... maybe if I ask Jo really nicely :]
Tom
Jaquandor
chuck roast (that they sell whole for 1.99/lb) and cut it into chunks, which
they then package and sell as "stew meat" for 2.99/lb!!! And amazingly, people
buy it. Is using a knife to cut meat into large chunks that difficult these
days?
--
-Jaq.
"That invisible hand of Adam Smith's seems to offer an extended middle finger
to an awful lot of people." -George Carlin
Brenda
Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> On the other hand there's a French stew whose name escapes me and
> whose primary ingredients are goose and beans. If I could lay
> hand on a recipe I'd look to see if it requires the chill-and-skim
> routine. Maybe it's in M.F.K. Fischer.....
>
Cassoulet. It's in Julia Child. First you pot your goose, cooking it in
fat. Then you put it in with the beans, plus sausage, lamb, pork, tomatoes,
garlic, etc. Bake for several hours. My children will march through the snow
to get it. Not a particularly low-fat dish, but nothing by Julia Child is.
Brenda
Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <39EA5B42...@erols.com>, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >
> >> On the other hand there's a French stew whose ...
> >> primary ingredients are goose and beans.
> >
> >Cassoulet. It's in Julia Child. First you pot your goose, cooking it in
> >fat. Then you put it in with the beans, plus sausage, lamb, pork, tomatoes,
> >garlic, etc. Bake for several hours. My children will march through the snow
> >to get it. Not a particularly low-fat dish, but nothing by Julia Child is.
>
> Oh, dear, it sounds lovely.
>
> I'd better not inquire any further. I am supposed to restrict
> fat to an entirely unfair degree.
>
It is true peasant cuisine, and therefore full of odds and ends, plus a cheap
bulkener (the beans) and laden with fat. I can only assume that hunters do not
carry fat with them on their jaunts, and the game they kill has no fat on it.
Doug Wickstrom
excited the ether to say:
>I can only assume that hunters do not
>carry fat with them on their jaunts, and the game they kill has no fat on it.
You shouldn't assume either.
The fat of game meat is frequently foul tasting, particularly if
it is venison. And yes, hunters will often have either beef suet
or fat pork with them for their beans, and bacon, of course.
Even hunters won't assume that they will always be successful,
and hunting _can_ be very hard work.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Pardon me while I have a strange interlude." --Groucho Marx
Helen Kenyon
>
>May I point out that skimming the fat after the stew (sauce, whatever)
>is done is quite easy, and even obligatory in some recipes I have?
>
I found (when I used to eat meat) that putting a soup or stew in the
fridge to chill was the best way of getting the maximum amount of fat
out of it.
Lisa A Leutheuser
Jaquandor <jaqu...@aol.comREMOVE> wrote:
>My local supermarket had hit on an interesting way to get more money: they take
>chuck roast (that they sell whole for 1.99/lb) and cut it into chunks, which
>they then package and sell as "stew meat" for 2.99/lb!!! And amazingly, people
>buy it. Is using a knife to cut meat into large chunks that difficult these
>days?
No, but what you do is order a pound of the chuck roast and
ask the guy behind the counter cut it up into chunks for you. :-)
The store I shop at sometimes uses sirloin for their stew meat,
and the sirloin "stew meat" will be less expensive than the
sirloin roast. I always ask what cut they used in their stew
meat that day before choosing what to buy.
--
Lisa Leutheuser - eal (at) umich.edu - http://www.umich.edu/~eal
Any advertising or other links in this post were not inserted by
the poster.
Dorothy J Heydt
Graydon Saunders <gra...@dsl.ca> wrote:
>>
>>That explains why duck stew, which is by the very nature of it fatty, is
>>such a pain to simmer, and also so delicious when it works.
>
>
If I were going to do a soup out of pieces of roast goose, I'd do
it in two stages: simmer the hell out of it, refrigerate it and
skim all the fat off; and then proceed. This is btw a good thing
to do with any kind of stew.
On the other hand there's a French stew whose name escapes me and
whose primary ingredients are goose and beans. If I could lay
hand on a recipe I'd look to see if it requires the chill-and-skim
routine. Maybe it's in M.F.K. Fischer.....
Dorothy J. Heydt
Dorothy J Heydt
Jaquandor <jaqu...@aol.comREMOVE> wrote:
>My local supermarket had hit on an interesting way to get more money: they take
>chuck roast (that they sell whole for 1.99/lb) and cut it into chunks, which
>they then package and sell as "stew meat" for 2.99/lb!!! And amazingly, people
>buy it. Is using a knife to cut meat into large chunks that difficult these
>days?
Sometimes it is. I'm not very strong and not very dextrous, and
I frequently find it easier to let "them" cut up the beef for me.
I just wish they would cut it a little smaller, like into
one-inch rather than two-inch pieces.
Rachel Brown
> On the other hand there's a French stew whose name escapes me and
> whose primary ingredients are goose and beans.
Cassoulet?
Rachel
Jaquandor
>Jaquandor <jaqu...@aol.comREMOVE> wrote:
>>My local supermarket had hit on an interesting way to get more money: they
>take
>>chuck roast (that they sell whole for 1.99/lb) and cut it into chunks, which
>>they then package and sell as "stew meat" for 2.99/lb!!! And amazingly,
>people
>>buy it. Is using a knife to cut meat into large chunks that difficult these
>>days?
>
>Sometimes it is. I'm not very strong and not very dextrous, and
>I frequently find it easier to let "them" cut up the beef for me.
Maybe your knives aren't sharp enough? A properly sharpened knife requires far
less strength; the act of moving the knife back and forth should provide enough
cutting power to move through the meat.
>I just wish they would cut it a little smaller, like into
>one-inch rather than two-inch pieces.
That's another reason I do it myself. When I make a stew I like to be able to
get a piece of meat into my mouth along with a veggie or two.
Dorothy J Heydt
>> primary ingredients are goose and beans.
>
>fat. Then you put it in with the beans, plus sausage, lamb, pork, tomatoes,
>garlic, etc. Bake for several hours. My children will march through the snow
>to get it. Not a particularly low-fat dish, but nothing by Julia Child is.
Oh, dear, it sounds lovely.
I'd better not inquire any further. I am supposed to restrict
fat to an entirely unfair degree.
Dorothy J. Heydt
jhe...@my-deja.com
Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> It is true peasant cuisine, and therefore full of odds and ends, plus
a cheap
hunters do not
> carry fat with them on their jaunts, and the game they kill has no
fat on it.
>
Depends on the season. Many game animals, even small game like rabbits
and woodchucks, are quite fat in the fall. However, a lot of game fat
has a strong flavor and a consistency more like tallow than, say,
lard. One exception is bear fat. That was highly prized by
subsistence hunters.
Peter Knutsen
Doug Wickstrom wrote:
>
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:47:56 -0400, Brenda <clo...@erols.com>
> excited the ether to say:
>
> >I can only assume that hunters do not
> >carry fat with them on their jaunts, and the game they kill has no fat on it.
>
> You shouldn't assume either.
>
> The fat of game meat is frequently foul tasting, particularly if
> it is venison. And yes, hunters will often have either beef suet
Do you know why this is so?
My vague hypopthesis is that a wild animal eats all sorts of
stuff, and unpleasant fat-soluble chemicals builds up in the fatty
tissue, creating a nasty taste.
A farm animal, on the other hand, gets a controlled diet, and the
farmer can ensure that the diet contains little that makes the
fat in the meat taste unpleasant.
> --
> Doug Wickstrom
--
Peter Knutsen
Jo Walton
t...@womack.net "Thomas Womack" writes:
> "Graydon Saunders" <gra...@dsl.ca> wrote
> > Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> scripsit:
> > >That explains why duck stew, which is by the very nature of it fatty, is
> > >such a pain to simmer, and also so delicious when it works.
> >
> > And why no one ever has recipes for goose soup, too.
>
> Sulien had goose and turnip soup thickened with barley in chapter 30, though
> maybe it helped that those were wild geese.
Wild geese are much less fatty. I have a recipe for an apple stuffing for
wild goose which I've never had the chance to make.
When I make goose stew, I use swede (rutabaga) and carrots and potatoes as
well as turnips, and leeks, also red lentils, oat flakes and did I mention
the pearl barley? _Lots_ of pearl barley. This is pretty much the same as
the way I do it for duck and chicken, except with more pearl barley.
Stew can be food for writers who forget to eat, even though it isn't
quick to make, because once you have made it all you have to do is boil
it up. When I am on my own and writing, in winter, I will sometimes eat
stew and bread every day quite happily, I don't get bored with it and
I don't have to make decisions about what I want to eat.
I can't do that at the moment because I don't have a good enough big pan.
> To find which chapter took me several minutes, even knowing what the
> paragraph looked like: visual grepping is not quick, and turning pages
> becomes a major factor. Confusticate the non-greppability of this paper
> novel, and my ability to remember 'near start of chapter' but not which
> chapter ... maybe if I ask Jo really nicely :]
If you'd asked me, I could have told you which chapter it was, yes. :]
Dorothy J Heydt
>
>Depends on the season. Many game animals, even small game like rabbits
>and woodchucks, are quite fat in the fall. However, a lot of game fat
>has a strong flavor and a consistency more like tallow than, say,
>lard. One exception is bear fat. That was highly prized by
>subsistence hunters.
Lewis has a line in one of the Narnia books: ~"Bear that has lived
mostly off other animals doesn't taste good, but bear that has
fed all summer on fruit and honey is excellent, and this happened
to be that kind of bear." Mind you, I do NOT know where he got
that information. (And yes, they have already determined that it
wasn't a Talking bear.)
Peter Knutsen
Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> Lewis has a line in one of the Narnia books: ~"Bear that has lived
> mostly off other animals doesn't taste good, but bear that has
> fed all summer on fruit and honey is excellent, and this happened
> to be that kind of bear." Mind you, I do NOT know where he got
> that information. (And yes, they have already determined that it
> wasn't a Talking bear.)
It could be a question of the buildup of chemicals in the fatty
tissue of the bear.
Thethe higher up in the food-chain, the more these fat-soluble
chemicals builds up. So if the bear eats from low in the food
chain (fruits and honey), it gets little of this. If it eats
from high in the food chain (animal), it gets more of these
chemicals.
I don't know of the chemicals are flushed out of the body as the
bear burns fat during hibernation. If this does not happen, then
Lewis is incorrect, since an older bear who had dined on meat
in previous years, but fruits and honey this year, would still
taste bad.
And keep in mind, we're not talking seriously toxic chemicals.
Just unpleasantly tasting ones. Except Vitamin A, which does
build up to lethal (for humans) concentration in the livers of
polar bears (because they are carnivores, not omnivores like
the other types of bear)
> Dorothy J. Heydt
--
Peter Knutsen
Jaquandor
I've got some recipes that look awesome, but I've only made one thus far (and I
haven't even made that one right, because I lack the preserved lemons). But
I've eaten some at Moroccan restaurants. I've really come to adore Middle
Eastern food in recent years. Wonderful colors and spices, nifty textures like
couscous, oh, wow!
Helen Kenyon
<pe...@knutsen.dk> writes
>
>A farm animal, on the other hand, gets a controlled diet, and the
>farmer can ensure that the diet contains little that makes the
>fat in the meat taste unpleasant.
>
>> --
>> Doug Wickstrom
>
Jaquandor
><pe...@knutsen.dk> writes
>>
>>A farm animal, on the other hand, gets a controlled diet, and the
>>farmer can ensure that the diet contains little that makes the
>>fat in the meat taste unpleasant.
>>
>>> --
>>> Doug Wickstrom
>>
>Or perhaps we domesticated the animals that tasted nicest?
I can't help picturing the installment of "The Far Side" that had a cow taking
a bite of steak and saying, "Oh my God, we taste like chicken!"
Deirdre Saoirse Moen
: My local supermarket had hit on an interesting way to get more money: they take
: chuck roast (that they sell whole for 1.99/lb) and cut it into chunks, which
: they then package and sell as "stew meat" for 2.99/lb!!! And amazingly, people
: buy it. Is using a knife to cut meat into large chunks that difficult these
: days?
I always use flank steak myself. Worth the extra $ imho.
--
_Deirdre * http://www.sfknit.org * http://www.deirdre.net
"You had thesaurus flakes for breakfast again, didn't you?"
-- Eric Williams
Zeborah
> My local supermarket had hit on an interesting way to get more money: they
> take chuck roast (that they sell whole for 1.99/lb) and cut it into
> chunks, which they then package and sell as "stew meat" for 2.99/lb!!! And
> amazingly, people buy it. Is using a knife to cut meat into large chunks
> that difficult these days?
Oh my, meat in New Caledonia *is* expensive. Not sure quite how
expensive as I've lost track of the US dollar. Assuming a dollar is 150
Pacific francs, which should be the tops, mince at the supermarket is
about 3.50/lb. Brains and such tend to be cheaper, but wouldn't you
know, I don't have any good recipes for brains.
And I don't need any, before anyone thinks to take that as a serious
request; I'm leaving in a week.
Ate at the school canteen today, in order to use up my canteen card, and
had some sort of fatty meat chunks drowned in fatty sauce. Not too bad,
with bread in between the chunks of meat to compensate for the richness.
(<blink> I'm taking bread for granted in that context, now. How
weird.) The meat could definitely have been chopped up a bit more,
though.
Zeborah (not ashamed to be counting the days)
--
http://www.crosswinds.net/~zeborahnz
Gravity is no joke.
Karen E. Leonard
If you used a Dutch oven, couldn't you brown the meat in the same pan
you stew it in?
1. Roll chunks of meat in flour, heat oil or grease in pot.
2. Brown meat. Add onions if you got'em.
3. Add water, bring to a boil.
4. Cover pan, lower heat. This is where you drop in the other
veggies. (Potato, turnip, carrot, whatever. Root chunks go in long
before greenery.)
5. Try to locate another Dutch oven to make pan de campo in.
6. Ask fellow campers if there's a third one, to make cobbler. (Can
of pie filling, cake mix.)
7. Hope there's somebody else tending the fire while you cook.
8. While eating, use the pan de campo pan to heat dishwater.
This meal uses 3 cast-iron lidded Dutch ovens, but it'll feed hungry
males. It also requires some long-handled utensils to work with the
coals (remember when you lowered the heat?) and stir the stew. The
eaters will need some kind of mess kits or bowls and spoons.
I think our fantasy travelers are going to have one of the group be
the cook, another light and tend the fire, and possibly some
meat-getting specialist or veggie-gathering specialist. Plus at least
1 sturdy pack animal to tote the heavy pots and the flour and grease.
If there are roads or level country, the chuck wagon returns again.
Aside from misidentified "foods" that get cooked, there's a possible
mishap in the fire-tending job. Young people are much more excited
about making BIG fires with leaping flames, which are pretty useless
for cooking with. And the possible character exposition in deciding
who gets to wash up and whether it rotates are also good. Possible
recipe fights, too.
Book to read: _Voices from the Wild Horse Desert_, collected stuff
from the vaqueros of the King and Kenedy ranches, who called
themselves kinenos. Some of the interviewees were cooks. UT Press, I
think. (Copy not in sight just now.)
Karen
Karen E. Leonard
I always thought it was the result of a farm family with a load of
harvesters to feed and about 3 days worth of leftover meats to put
with the veggies. (Those aren't leftovers, they're raw materials!)
Karen
Manny Olds
> If you used a Dutch oven, couldn't you brown the meat in the same pan
> you stew it in?
You get better results if you alter the steps a bit:
1) Caramelize an assortment of minced vegetables and herbs in a moderate
amount of fat or oil. Scrape them out of the pot as much as possible.
(The lid is a very handy receptacle.) Brown is good; burned is BAD.
2) Dredge and brown meat. You want more brown stuff sticking to the pan.
Brown is good; burned is BAD.
3) Add a bit of liquid (beer/ale) and ease the brown stuff off the pan.
Add more liquid and the caramelized vegetables; stir until the brown
stuff is in solution. (Most of the flavor of the dish comes from what
you do up to this point.)
Add whatever spices, herbs, etc. you have handy. Bring to gentle boil.
> 4. Cover pan, lower heat. This is where you drop in the other
> veggies. (Potato, turnip, carrot, whatever. Root chunks go in long
> before greenery.)
Then stew until the minced bits you started with are completely dissolved
and the connective material in the meat softens.
I have done this basic stew more than once on a backpacking stove. It is
important to start early enough that you will be able to see the
difference between "nicely caramelizing" and "starting to burn". By the
time you can smell, it is already too late.
> Aside from misidentified "foods" that get cooked, there's a possible
> mishap in the fire-tending job. Young people are much more excited
> about making BIG fires with leaping flames, which are pretty useless
> for cooking with. And the possible character exposition in deciding
> who gets to wash up and whether it rotates are also good. Possible
> recipe fights, too.
_The Wizard of the Supply Train_?
_The King's Chuck Wagon_?
_Happy Hula Meatballs_?
--
Manny Olds <old...@clark.net> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA
Sometimes you give a guy a fish, sometimes you teach him to fish,
sometimes you establish a fisherman training school, and sometimes you
have to let him find his own solution.
Dorothy J Heydt
Karen E. Leonard <kleo...@hiline.net> wrote:
>
>
>If you used a Dutch oven, couldn't you brown the meat in the same pan
>you stew it in?
>
>2. Brown meat. Add onions if you got'em.
>veggies. (Potato, turnip, carrot, whatever. Root chunks go in long
>before greenery.)
Actually, you can spend a little time browning the carrots and/or
parsnips before you add the water, and you really should brown
the onions before that. I don't know whether turnips would
benefit by a little browning; I have never been able to stand
'em.
>5. Try to locate another Dutch oven to make pan de campo in.
Recipe? Does it use yeast?
>6. Ask fellow campers if there's a third one, to make cobbler. (Can
>of pie filling, cake mix.)
The only problem with this is that Dutch ovens are *heavy*. We
used to take one or two Dutch ovens and one or two aebleskiver
pans to overnight tourneys... but we had a van. Do your packers
have a pack mule? If not, they will not want to carry that much
cast iron.
>7. Hope there's somebody else tending the fire while you cook.
Right.
>8. While eating, use the pan de campo pan to heat dishwater.
You'll take all the seasoning out of it!
...
>I think our fantasy travelers are going to have one of the group be
>the cook, another light and tend the fire, and possibly some
>meat-getting specialist or veggie-gathering specialist. Plus at least
>1 sturdy pack animal to tote the heavy pots and the flour and grease.
OK, you do have one.
>If there are roads or level country, the chuck wagon returns again.
These go back at least to Carolingian times, and in fact those
weird guys who spoke Proto-Indo-European four thousand years ago
had wagons of some kind, you can reconstruct the word for
"wheel". So you can get away with wagons at any comparable
technological period, if you've got something to run them over.
Dan Krashin
Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> jhe...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > That's for affluent societies. In food-scarce economies, fat is
> > considered _good_.
[snip]
> Yep, that was my thought. Fat-free is only desireable in a culture
>where
> all the food is loaded with fat, and nobody does anything more
>energetic
> than hitting the 'enter' key. In earlier times everyone knew that
>fat was
> where it was at. In one of the Irish epics the poet dreams about a
>castle
> built of pork. And archaeologists know that human beings have been
>at the
> animal bones in a dig, when they're cracked to extract the fatty
>marrow.
Of course, in the old days, few people lived long enough to pay the
price for a high-fat diet.
I can imagine the scene in a fantasy novel:
"With the new healing spells, and the herbs from across the sea, there
is very little sickness that I cannot help, Your Grace. But if you
will keep on feasting and drinking the nut-brown ale at every meal...
well, the Queen and I have come up a plan of diet and exercise that --"
"Guards! Arrest this man! And saddle my horse. There is doubtless
a bandit at loose in the wine country, and I will scour the vineyards
for him."
Danny
Brenda
Manny Olds wrote:
> _The Wizard of the Supply Train_?
> _The King's Chuck Wagon_?
> _Happy Hula Meatballs_?
>
Oh, now there's a gem. Quick, Robin! To the Bat-wordprocessor!
Dan Krashin
> Manny Olds wrote:
>
> > _The Wizard of the Supply Train_?
> > _The King's Chuck Wagon_?
> > _Happy Hula Meatballs_?
Not to mention _The King's Pizza._
(sorry, Jo)
Karen E. Leonard
Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
> (snip)
> >5. Try to locate another Dutch oven to make pan de campo in.
>
> Recipe? Does it use yeast?
>
Just thinking...the ccanned pie filling wsn't exactly medieval,
either, nor the cake mix.
Pan de campo as prepared in S. Texas can be described (cynically) as
"Bisquick and water."
The time I made it, I used flour, baking powder, salt, and water.
(You see why the cynics said Bisquick.) Rolled the dough out on a
freshly-cleaned picnic table. Sprinkled with dried garlic. Put in
Dutch oven (already on coals) and put coals on the lid, too. Check in
8-10 minutes to see if it needs to be turned.
It's possible that this is what 19th century chemical leavenings did
to flat breads. ("Saleratus," etc.)
Karen
(Chickened out from fixing boiled cattail roots. Too much yuck in the
ditches, didn't want to sicken the victims. And heaven only knows how
to tell if it's done right.)
Brian Pickrell
>I just thought I'd post this recipe which I discovered during my
>haphazard researches into low tech camping and scouting techniques.
>Considering that (following Diana Wynne Jones's denunciation of stew in
>the _Tough Guide_) many people (including myself, I freely admit)
I think your first instinct was right.
>were
>sceptical about the practicalities of stew as a dish to be prepared on
>the road, it seems that it is feasible after all.[...]
>This was in _Scouting For Boys_ by Lord Baden-Powell. So, if our weary
>travellers can quickly get a fire going and put a pot of water to boil,
This sounds like hours of work to me: find firewood, get the fire
started, boil the water in an iron kettle which will take considerable
time itself to heat up, then wait for it to cook - simmering by its
nature is slow - and of course cleaning everything up and packing it
when you're ready to move again.
>one person can be slicing up the meat and veg while the others sort out
>the horses (unsaddling, watering, feeding, tethering for the night) and
>digging the latrine. Hopefully, the water will be boiling by the time
>the ingredients are prepared, then the stew can simmer for say half an
>hour, then have veg added, when it will need simmering again for a
>further 20 mins to half an hour. I think the trick to making it edible
>is in slicing the meat very small, as in a stir fry. This will enable
>it to cook quickly. And people in the past were probably prepared to
>chew much tougher meat than today's softies will tolerate.
You seem to be thinking about this in the terms of modern backpackers,
who expect to spend as many hours walking as they can, and as little
time making camp. That just wasn't possible in the days of iron cook
pots and wood fires. Gear was heavy, and by necessity people hauled
a lot of stuff with them by mule or wagon and moved slow. You don't
tote a canvas tent and a bushel of vegetables in your backpack. This
applies to the old Boy Scout type of camping, too--they had, I
believe, very overequipped campsites by today's standards. The sort
of ultra-light travel you see in Lord of the Rings et. al. would have
been very very rough living, and people would soon be worn out by
eating the meager food, if nothing else. Time to stop and cook up a
nice pot of stew.
Picture a nomadic tribe on the move, now: they had to bring along
wives, babies, furniture and everything else. The menfolk could roam
freely during the day, perhaps, but there would always be a camp for
them to come back to at night. The women would be busy most of the
time tending that camp.
>Helen
--------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Pickrell
http://www.worldfront.com/home/everyone/
Dorothy J Heydt
Brian Pickrell <bobth...@brandx.net> wrote:
>....The sort
>of ultra-light travel you see in Lord of the Rings et. al. would have
>been very very rough living, and people would soon be worn out by
>eating the meager food, if nothing else. Time to stop and cook up a
>nice pot of stew.
Assuming you're in that part of _LotR where you dare to light a
fire at all.
Karen E. Leonard
and that it worked out to around 20 miles distance.
I think people only traveled until about 2 pm or so, then they found a
campsite, scrounged up some wood, and so on.
There wasn't much of that go-until-you-drop bit that men are alleged
to be so fond of these days. (Note weasel word. DH likes to drive
until his back gets tired...and he's got the steering wheel to hold
his arms up.) There wasn't much instant food, either, so cook as you
go was almost the only choice people had. Besides, the transport
needed to eat, drink, and rest as well. Horses aren't Corvettes.
Neither are mules and donkeys. Oxen, said to be the most popular
critter for towing the famous covered wagons west, are even slower.
Best,
Karen Leonard
Dorothy J Heydt
>and that it worked out to around 20 miles distance.
That's right. The pilgrimage inns (mostly monasteries) along
the road to Compostela are about the same distance apart, for
the same reason.
Helen Kenyon
>
>This sounds like hours of work to me: find firewood, get the fire
>started, boil the water in an iron kettle which will take considerable
>time itself to heat up, then wait for it to cook - simmering by its
>nature is slow - and of course cleaning everything up and packing it
>when you're ready to move again.
>
during and after the Boer war. He was in the 13th Hussars, did
reconnaissance work, often went out with just a couple of native guides
to sketch wildlife and generally had lots of experience of travelling
light and living comfortably with the minimum of equipment through later
campaigns as well.
>
>You seem to be thinking about this in the terms of modern backpackers,
>who expect to spend as many hours walking as they can, and as little
>time making camp. That just wasn't possible in the days of iron cook
>pots and wood fires. Gear was heavy, and by necessity people hauled
>a lot of stuff with them by mule or wagon and moved slow. You don't
>tote a canvas tent and a bushel of vegetables in your backpack.
>This
>applies to the old Boy Scout type of camping, too--they had, I
>of ultra-light travel you see in Lord of the Rings et. al. would have
>been very very rough living, and people would soon be worn out by
>eating the meager food, if nothing else. Time to stop and cook up a
>nice pot of stew.
>
different requirement for tents for a standing camp or for what he calls
a "tramping camp".
>Picture a nomadic tribe on the move, now: they had to bring along
>wives, babies, furniture and everything else. The menfolk could roam
>freely during the day, perhaps, but there would always be a camp for
>them to come back to at night. The women would be busy most of the
>time tending that camp.
>
I have actually camped the old fashioned Girl Guide way and you *don't*
spend all day tending the camp. Even allowing for time spent making
camp gadgets, we spent most of our time playing games, going for walks
and doing work to improve the campsite etc. Admittedly, we weren't
hunting our food; we'd either brought it with us or the Guiders bought
it from the local shop, but the food was cooked on a fire. The trick is
to spread out the chores, some to chop wood, some to peel potatoes.
Lucy Kemnitzer
<bobth...@brandx.net> wrote:
>Helen Kenyon <ken...@baradel.demon.co.uk.please.delete.this> wrote:
>
>>I just thought I'd post this recipe which I discovered during my
>>haphazard researches into low tech camping and scouting techniques.
>>Considering that (following Diana Wynne Jones's denunciation of stew in
>>the _Tough Guide_) many people (including myself, I freely admit)
>
>I think your first instinct was right.
>
>>were
>>sceptical about the practicalities of stew as a dish to be prepared on
>>the road, it seems that it is feasible after all.[...]
>>This was in _Scouting For Boys_ by Lord Baden-Powell. So, if our weary
>>travellers can quickly get a fire going and put a pot of water to boil,
>
>This sounds like hours of work to me: find firewood, get the fire
>started, boil the water in an iron kettle which will take considerable
>time itself to heat up, then wait for it to cook - simmering by its
>nature is slow - and of course cleaning everything up and packing it
>when you're ready to move again.
On this whole "stew" question, I would like to point out that the
nomadic hunter-gatherers of the Plains, once they got the horse
and iron pot and took up that life we like to think of traditional
though it lasted a few generations only, what they ate was boiled
meat largely.
& it is a popular dish among the other traveling hunters I can
think of. Boiled, more than roasted, so far as I know.
Lucy Kemnitzer
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Leonard) wrote:
> ISTR that the California missions were put about 1 day's travel apart,
> and that it worked out to around 20 miles distance.
The standard Roman march distance was twenty Roman miles a day. That
works out I think at 18 statute miles. However that includes time for
demolishing or at least removing the stakes from the palisade of the
previous nights marching camp and building a new one at the next camp
site.
A reasonable walking pace in moderately clear terrain would be three to
four miles a day. Which would mean that you are talking about five to
seven hours of actual walking a day to cover twenty miles. Twenty miles
was also a standard days work for horse carts, at about three miles an
hour. This was a working day that adequately fed horses could keep up for
weeks. I have no figures for ox carts but I believe that though they were
slower they could pull a bigger load for the same distance.
Ken Young
ken...@cix.co.uk
Maternity is a matter of fact
Paternity is a matter of opinion
Brian Pickrell
>I have actually camped the old fashioned Girl Guide way and you *don't*
>spend all day tending the camp. Even allowing for time spent making
>camp gadgets, we spent most of our time playing games, going for walks
>and doing work to improve the campsite etc. Admittedly, we weren't
>hunting our food; we'd either brought it with us or the Guiders bought
>it from the local shop, but the food was cooked on a fire. The trick is
>to spread out the chores, some to chop wood, some to peel potatoes.
>
>Helen
I suspect we're not really in disagreement here. If you camp at the
same site for a few days, things get easier--you don't have to keep
setting up tents, you can leave stew pots simmering, and you have time
to go on day hikes etc.
I'll believe that Baden-Powell knew what he was doing, but *I* don't
know what he was doing. Did he move camp every day when he was
travelling? Did he use pack horses or porters? Is it possible that
his idea of travelling light and moving on was different than ours?
A couple more things occur to me. First, if you're using pack
animals, the amount of time spent travelling would depend on what the
beasts can do. I have no idea how many hours a horse or gryphon can
walk before it needs to rest. Second, if you're travelling in winter,
you'll have to start late and quit early because of darkness. In that
case, you will have lots of time in camp for cooking. As an example,
at the latitude of Seattle or Paris, it gets dark at 4:30 around
Christmastime.
Amorphous Social Mass
>Helen Kenyon <ken...@baradel.demon.co.uk.please.delete.this> wrote:
>>This was in _Scouting For Boys_ by Lord Baden-Powell. So, if our weary
>>travellers can quickly get a fire going and put a pot of water to boil,
>This sounds like hours of work to me: find firewood, get the fire
>started, boil the water in an iron kettle which will take considerable
>time itself to heat up, then wait for it to cook - simmering by its
>nature is slow - and of course cleaning everything up and packing it
>when you're ready to move again.
Um. That's exactly what we do on canoe camping trips. Hit the shore,
drag in the canoes, find firewood, build a fire, get water, boil water
in big pot (fortunately now a cast aluminum Dutch oven, rather than
their original cast iron one; ah, the joys of Campmor), cook food.
Clean up at night & re-pack in the morning.
The trick is to coordinate. Team work. While the firewood fetchers &
water carriers are collecting, a couple of other folks start chopping
& other food prep, and everyone else sets up camp.
On our trip in middle Manitoba this summer, we did 23 km, 37 km and 43
km on the major paddling days. 11 portages total. The 43 km day was
pretty rough.
I think party size is a better indicator of whether or not stew is
practical. Parties < 4 probably shouldn't even consider it, but it
looks more and more practical as party size increases.
--
Piglet Ann B. for President
pig...@piglet.org Burlingham/Burlingham in 2000!
Piglet Needs A (NYC) Sysadmin!! http://www.evolution.com/jobs
Helen Kenyon
<bobth...@brandx.net> writes
>I'll believe that Baden-Powell knew what he was doing, but *I* don't
>know what he was doing. Did he move camp every day when he was
>travelling? Did he use pack horses or porters? Is it possible that
>his idea of travelling light and moving on was different than ours?
>
As far as I can gather, he travelled a lot with just a couple of native
"boys" (as he calls them). He may even have scouted completely alone at
times. He certainly spied alone, though whether he was living rough
then, I'm not sure.
>A couple more things occur to me. First, if you're using pack
>animals, the amount of time spent travelling would depend on what the
>beasts can do. I have no idea how many hours a horse or gryphon can
>walk before it needs to rest.
A reasonably fit horse should be able to so 20-30 miles over roads or
easy country and keep that up day after day. The bigger the group, the
slower you'll go, as you always seem to have to wait for someone.
>Second, if you're travelling in winter,
>you'll have to start late and quit early because of darkness. In that
>case, you will have lots of time in camp for cooking. As an example,
>at the latitude of Seattle or Paris, it gets dark at 4:30 around
>Christmastime.
>
In Wales at Christmas time, it's dark by 4. BP, however, was in South
Africa, so seasonal variation in day length would not be a problem.
Helen
(further north than Seattle)
Lori Selke
Jaquandor <jaqu...@aol.comREMOVE> wrote:
>What a great thread!! Does anybody here like Moroccan stews, called Tagines?
I'm trying to find a tagine (that's the cone-shaped clay pot that tagines are
made in; think "casseroles," which are both the food and the dish the food's
cooked in) as we speak, actually.
But I don't like couscous. At its best, it's merely OK.
Lori
--
se...@io.com
se...@sirius.com
"But this isn't a dance! It's upright delirium!" -- The Desert Peach
Dorothy J Heydt
Helen Kenyon <ken...@baradel.demon.co.uk.please.delete.this> wrote:
>>
>In Wales at Christmas time, it's dark by 4. BP, however, was in South
>Africa, so seasonal variation in day length would not be a problem.
I assume what you're saying is, not that South Africa has no
seasonal variation in day length, but that it's not as extreme;
that South Africa is not as far south as Britain is north.
The one time I was in the UK was in June, yeah, the days get
pretty long.
But what really brought it home to me was the film "Gregory's
Girl," in which the kids are in Scotland, and having wandered
about all night are saying goodnight at 4 in the morning and it's
*light* already.
Dorothy J Heydt
In my part of the US at least, one can buy prepackaged couscous
with various additional flavors, Parmesan cheese e.g. I suppose
this would appall purists, but it tastes pretty good.
Lisa A Leutheuser
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <YdvJ5.90590$bI6.3...@news1.giganews.com>,
>Lori Selke <se...@io.com> wrote:
>>
>
>with various additional flavors, Parmesan cheese e.g. I suppose
>this would appall purists, but it tastes pretty good.
I bet it's partially a texture issue, because plain couscous
doesn't have much taste. But that's just a guess because I
do like couscous. Just served it last night with a mafe (a
West African peanut stew.)
--
Lisa Leutheuser - eal (at) umich.edu - http://www.umich.edu/~eal
Any advertising or other links in this post were not inserted by
the poster.
Lori Selke
Lisa A Leutheuser <e...@umich.edu> wrote:
>In article <G2zoC...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>In article <YdvJ5.90590$bI6.3...@news1.giganews.com>,
>>Lori Selke <se...@io.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>with various additional flavors, Parmesan cheese e.g. I suppose
>>this would appall purists, but it tastes pretty good.
>
>I bet it's partially a texture issue, because plain couscous
>doesn't have much taste. But that's just a guess because I
>do like couscous. Just served it last night with a mafe (a
>West African peanut stew.)
Yes, it's entirely a texture issue.
Oddly, I do like millet, and often substitute for that.
It's what I eat peanut stews with, for example. I think
I must like the denser, chewier grain to the fluffier
semolina product (couscous, that is). Which I'm
sure makes me a pervert.
Marilee J. Layman
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <YdvJ5.90590$bI6.3...@news1.giganews.com>,
>Lori Selke <se...@io.com> wrote:
>>
>>But I don't like couscous. At its best, it's merely OK.
>
>In my part of the US at least, one can buy prepackaged couscous
>with various additional flavors, Parmesan cheese e.g. I suppose
>this would appall purists, but it tastes pretty good.
I buy the Near East when they go on sale. I think they taste pretty
good, and they're really quick in the microwave.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc
Helen Kenyon
<djh...@kithrup.com> writes
>
>I assume what you're saying is, not that South Africa has no
>seasonal variation in day length, but that it's not as extreme;
>that South Africa is not as far south as Britain is north.
>
thinking it through properly. But yes. What you said.
Helen
John F. Eldredge
Hash: SHA1
On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:54:34 +0100, Helen Kenyon
<ken...@baradel.demon.co.uk.please.delete.this> wrote:
>In article <kbl9vscrni8fs86cb...@4ax.com>, Brian
>Pickrell <bobth...@brandx.net> writes
>>Second, if you're travelling in winter,
>>you'll have to start late and quit early because of darkness. In
>>that case, you will have lots of time in camp for cooking. As an
>>example, at the latitude of Seattle or Paris, it gets dark at 4:30
>>around Christmastime.
>>
>In Wales at Christmas time, it's dark by 4. BP, however, was in
>South Africa, so seasonal variation in day length would not be a
>problem.
Ahem. South Africa is, as the name would suggest, at the southern
tip of Africa, not in the equatorial zone. Judging from my world
atlas, it is about the same distance south of the equator as Spain is
north of the equator. So, there wouldn't be as much variation in day
length as you have in Wales, but there would definitely be some, as
well as seasonal variations in temperature.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 Int. for non-commercial use
<http://www.pgpinternational.com>
iQA/AwUBOfe00zMYPge5L34aEQKphwCfQqR6YS36Dn1mJkj8D64OnZ/8ph8AoOtZ
aqytFTjVSjAEeW/qS1xe0jAX
=2gMN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
John F. Eldredge -- eldr...@poboxes.com
PGP key available from:
http://www.netforward.com/poboxes/?eldredge/
"There must be, not a balance of power, but a community of power;
not organized rivalries, but an organized common peace." - Woodrow Wilson
Paul Andinach
> > Manny Olds wrote:
> >
> > > _The Wizard of the Supply Train_?
> > > _The King's Chuck Wagon_?
> > > _Happy Hula Meatballs_?
>
> Not to mention _The King's Pizza._
Someone, somewhere, has surely written _War and Peas_.
Paul
--
The Pink Pedanther
Dorothy J Heydt
Paul Andinach <pand...@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>
>Someone, somewhere, has surely written _War and Peas_.
it on my shelf, maybe she hasn't written it *yet*. Her
protagonist is a housewife who provides important hints to
whodunit by her knowledge of housekeeping practices. (It's
not a new concept, Anthony Boucher wrote at least one such story.)
Some of her other titles are _Grime and Punishment,_ _Silence of the
Hams,_ _A Farewell to Yarns,_ _A Quiche Before Dying._
Brian Pickrell
>bobth...@brandx.net, in article <92ivuso2f2rv621pe...@4ax.com>, dixit:
>>Helen Kenyon <ken...@baradel.demon.co.uk.please.delete.this> wrote:
>>>This was in _Scouting For Boys_ by Lord Baden-Powell. So, if our weary
>Um. That's exactly what we do on canoe camping trips. Hit the shore,
>drag in the canoes, find firewood, build a fire, get water, boil water
>in big pot (fortunately now a cast aluminum Dutch oven, rather than
>their original cast iron one; ah, the joys of Campmor), cook food.
>
>Clean up at night & re-pack in the morning.
>
>The trick is to coordinate. Team work. While the firewood fetchers &
>water carriers are collecting, a couple of other folks start chopping
>& other food prep, and everyone else sets up camp.
>
>On our trip in middle Manitoba this summer, we did 23 km, 37 km and 43
>km on the major paddling days. 11 portages total. The 43 km day was
>pretty rough.
How many hours per day did you actually travel? On the average days,
and on the long day?