Night Thoughts -- translated from Hebrew -- Hayyim Nahman Bialik
Jerry Kraus
Hayyim Nahman Bialik
Fearful cry -- Nightowl midst desert,
Arise nevermore, thy shattered heart;
Thy tears outpour a surging flood
A salt sea for a desert shroud;
A thousand years of tears, the debt is owed --
All joy is gone, thy heart is turned to stone --
Wherefore, such solemn compensation?
A fool's errand, tearful, mournful dispensation.
Your fires from thence expelled,
Your mouth, its tempest quelled;
Behold the Tempest, Know Darkness --
The end of Time? Of all Existence?
Mayhap, these storm-scattered clouds
Shall show through Moon and Stars?
Behold, the worldly wrath arise --
Tis naught -- the Death of Night.
My guts are torn, miserable, wretched,
Stop it, I can't bear it!
I yearn this dreaded term of life to end,
Struggling for breath, my eye's fire dimmed;
Behold, it nears the gateway of my soul,
The broad gate breeched, burned beyond control --
My staggered life stumbles on --
My God! Am I undone?
The tender womb is beaten bloody,
Filthy linen befouls the baby's body;
The mother's shrivelled breast withdrawn,
While mourners poisoned cups do drain.
As if my very heart to grasp
Compelled to drain its potency and strength...
Woeful, hidden my rage,
My life is dead, fiend-ravished!
Spreading canopy its waters shining
Stars like gemstones glittering;
Soft breezes sweetly flowing
Caressing joyous lands happily whispering,
Lovingly embracing,
Their hidden secrets silent telling;
Sweet silent sleep, our life is curing --
Away! Away! Thou worms devouring.
Gentle Night, sweet mistress,
Your silent song, is my balm;
But your tendrils twine,
And, wearying, they seem to bind me --
Then my strong desire fills thy song,
On silken wings they bring me home,
Drying frozen tears in longful eyes --
I drink thy song, thy breast of tears!
Thy breast of tears, thy song,
Affright me heart, my soul enthrong.
Wandering vagabonds arise midst desert,
Seek the fallen Temple, where lie their ancestors,
They point the path of exile,
Resign thyself, rest a while;
That fire again, again thy song
My tears they cease -- by thy gentle balm!
Translated from Hebrew by Jerome Raymond Kraus (2008)
© Copyright Jerome Raymond Kraus (2008)
Mirelle
Jerry Kraus wrote:
I like this poem better:
"Iraq Is In Flames"
Iraq is in flames. Iraq is burning.
This is your chance to get rid of all trash.
Throw into the fire your conscience and compass.
Clean the whole area, leave no morals intact.
Ignite the books, paper burns well.
Don't be soft hearted, just feed the inferno.
Sanitize your house; leave aside all care.
Shove a blazing rag into the screaming gob.
There are doubts? Burn them too!
And throw into the flames
The mourns, moans, and groans.
The stench of scorched baby flesh
Shall cover up many smells.
Iraq is in flames. Iraq is burning.
Turn everything into ashes, once and for all.
Throw into the fire your conscience and compass.
Tomorrow they might, god forbid, flourish again.
~ Mirelle Bonte
http://wwwpeacenow.blogspot.com/
Mirelle
NefeshBarYochai
>
> - Show quoted text -
Your poem discribes your sick perverted mind.
friendly old dog
I am not a reader of poetry. I am touched by this poem. It seems to
connect with my private feelings.
Mirelle
I like this poem better:
"Amel - Hope...For Peace"
To the people of the world
This is the news that must be told
Of an Iraqi baby, not very old
Lying in her crib on a star-lit night
How could she know of those planes in flight?
She lies there quietly touching her nose,
Watching her mobile, wiggling her toes,
Oohing and cooing, so sweetly is she
Talking to someone, who could it be?
An Angel, is standing with her in the room.
The baby is smiling, unaware of her doom.
The crib starts to shake the mobile goes round
Then suddenly comes the most deafening sound
The ceiling drops in a second or two...
On her crib she ceases to coo...
No one knows how long she lies there
Who thought about it? Doesn't anyone care?
Is she alive? Is she dead? Is she in pain?
Now that you mention it, who knows her name?
Her name is Amel, in English we say Hope
Crushed between the rubble, her tiny fingers start to grope!
Where is my Mommy? I love her so dear!
Come get me Mommy! It's dark in here!
I'm scared, hungry, and I can't see my feet,
There's blood in my mouth! Give me something to eat!
Where is Daddy? Where's my big Brother?
It hurts when I breathe! Where is my Mother?!
How long have I been here? Is this just a dream?
I open my mouth, but I can't even scream!
Angels appear, again, by my side.
This time with a tear I plead...Why have I died?
Am I alone in my suffering? "No, there are many others.
In our grief and misery, we are all sisters and brothers."
Who are we, I ask you.. for what crime did we die?
They're throwing a party! Doesn't anyone cry?!
Is it true? Am I nothing?! How could it be?
Don't they also have babies, just like me?
It is war they say, of which death is a part.
How blind they've become, how hardened of heart.
Did someone say hero? To whom do they speak?
A victory claimed for killing the weak?!
Why are they happy? Why are they proud?
Don't they know that I'm cold in my burial shroud?!
No war has been won; no ifs, buts or maybes
No weapons of mass destruction:
They've only killed babies!!!
Mirelle
fla...@verizon.net
<tac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > My God! =C2=A0Am I undone?
>> > =EF=BF=BD Copyright Jerome Raymond Kraus (2008)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Your poem discribes your sick perverted mind.
You should talk, Warren. Read some of the stuff *you* write when
you;ve been taking your meds.
Susan
Dennis M. Hammes
Iraq is burning? Do not pout,
But get your fork and wieners out.
All this fevered teenage storming
Only adds to Global Warming.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
Gresham's Law is not worth a Continental.
http://scrawlmark.org
Dennis M. Hammes
I am a reader of poetry. This isn't.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 9, 12:20 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I like this poem better:
>
...
> They've only killed babies!!!
>
> Mirelle
>
That's "Licensed, registered Baby-Killer" to you, baby.
Why a baby just doesn't make good body-armor.
Not when Muslims assert to shoot from behind theirs or you assert
to throw turds from behind yours.
/Metzada lo tippol shenit/.
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
What is it, exactly, Dennis?
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are very kind, my friend. That is a very sweet remark.
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oh, I forgot. You've written a book specifying the "rules of
prosody". And, I suppose, I'm not following them. Any particular
reason why I should care?
Mirelle
> friendly old dog wrote:
> > I am not a reader of poetry. I am touched by this poem. It seems to
> > connect with my private feelings.
> I am a reader of poetry. This isn't.
I agree.
Here is a poem I like:
"The Unseen Artist"
Michelangelo's 'David' - spectacular, man-made masterpiece
Blue footed boobies in Galapagos - make 'David' look like sculpted
rock.
Mozart's finest symphonies - man-made, music masterpieces
Sound of baby robins chirping - make Mozart...sound fabricated.
Artists throughout the ages - seemingly succeed in portraying Nature's
beauty
Venus in the midnight sky - reminds them, they are humble attempts at
plagiarism.
Humanity, tries - to capture newly opened rose buds - in painting,
fabric and poetry
The heart's rapture is seen in masterpieces...the perfume, however, is
absent.
Better to make great works of art - than war - better to plagiarize
nature - to remind
Suffering humanity that tortures the rest of life - along with
torturing each other
That we are surrounded by beauty...we can have the perfume - instead
of war.
That is what artists are pointing to...beauty, that can not be fully
captured.
So life-like, one forgets - they are paintings, sculptures and
instruments - momentarily
Masters of art...servants of the Unseen Artist - that makes roses with
the perfume present.
More of my poetry at this site:
http://mirellebonte.livejournal.com/
Mirelle
> >>(c) Copyright Jerome Raymond Kraus (2008)
Mirelle
> Mirelle wrote:
> > On Jan 9, 12:20 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I like this poem better:
> > They've only killed babies!!!
> > Mirelle
> That's "Licensed, registered Baby-Killer" to you, baby.
I completely agree, American soldiers are licensed, registered Baby-
Killers.
http://mirellebonte.livejournal.com/
Mirelle
רוח אלוהים
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mirelle I wish our soldiers would kill you skunk lady.
fla...@verizon.net
It's obviously just something he doesn't like.
But don't pay any attention to naysayers:
you pursue your vision!!
Susan
Mirelle
> On 10-Jan-2008, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > What is it, exactly, Dennis?
> It's obviously just something he doesn't like.
> But don't pay any attention to naysayers:
> you pursue your vision!!
What vision?
He only translated that piece of zionist shit poem from Hebrew into
English.
Here is a poem I wrote - not just translated some else's poetry:
"The Garden"
I was in the garden -- in the morning, gathering roses.
The whole time, I was afraid...the gardener would see me.
The gardener, however, only spoke these kind words:
"A few roses, are nothing, I give you...the complete garden."
Like the rose, with my whole body, I smile -- not with my mouth alone;
Because, I am, I...without I -- with the king of the universe, in the
garden.
http://mirellebonte.livejournal.com/
> Susan
Mirelle
Dennis M. Hammes
> What is it, exactly, Dennis?
>
If you can't tell, what difference does it make?
If you can see nothing but the Holy Words, what more can you want?
More to the point, what more can you possibly want to know?
The process of acquiring a language will cost you all your Holy
Powers, so don't go there.
Dennis M. Hammes
>>What is it, exactly, Dennis?
>
>
> It's obviously just something he doesn't like.
> But don't pay any attention to naysayers:
> you pursue your vision!!
>
> Susan
Sailed off the edge of the Earth recently, Princess?
(Of course you have. Any of the Faithful can. It's what makes them
superior to the merely mundane.)
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 10, 9:05 pm, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
>
>>On 10-Jan-2008, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>What is it, exactly, Dennis?
>>
>>It's obviously just something he doesn't like.
>>But don't pay any attention to naysayers:
>>you pursue your vision!!
>
>
> What vision?
> He only translated that piece of zionist shit poem from Hebrew into
> English.
He translated it into /something/, to be sure, but only a stretch of
imagination available to a Genuine Princess could call it "English."
Anybody care to say if the original really consists in a floating
pile of gerund phrases?
Or if "thy" is really a pronoun in Chaldean?
(Nobody's written "Hebrew" since the Second Babylonian Captivity,
and Hebrew is rather imperfectly written in Chaldean. Are the many
faults the fault of Chaldean rendition or of the translator? Or was
this piece translated from a voice recording?)
Dennis M. Hammes
> Oh, I forgot. You've written a book specifying the "rules of
> prosody". And, I suppose, I'm not following them. Any particular
> reason why I should care?
>
Good heavens, no. It will cost you all your Holy Powers to care
about language in any degree.
You don't wanna go there.
P.S.: No, I haven't, so you couldn't if you wanted to.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 10, 12:37 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
>
>>friendly old dog wrote:
>
>
>>> I am not a reader of poetry. I am touched by this poem. It seems to
>>>connect with my private feelings.
>
>
>>I am a reader of poetry. This isn't.
>
>
> I agree.
>
> Here is a poem I like:
>
> "The Unseen Artist"
>
>
> Michelangelo's 'David' - spectacular, man-made masterpiece
> Blue footed boobies in Galapagos - make 'David' look like sculpted
> rock.
> Mozart's finest symphonies - man-made, music masterpieces
> Sound of baby robins chirping - make Mozart...sound fabricated.
Blue-footed boobkes pooping,
Baby robins shitting --
They make your writing
Sound completely natural.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 10, 12:42 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
>
>>Mirelle wrote:
>>
>>>On Jan 9, 12:20 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>I like this poem better:
>
>
>>>They've only killed babies!!!
>
>
>>>Mirelle
>>
>>That's "Licensed, registered Baby-Killer" to you, baby.
>
>
> I completely agree, American soldiers are licensed, registered Baby-
> Killers.
Good. Then perhaps you can manage to understand that the only reason
you're still alive is that you're not worth filling out the paperwork.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 10, 5:06 pm, Mirelle <labellemire...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 10, 12:42 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mirelle wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Jan 9, 12:20 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>I like this poem better:
>>>>They've only killed babies!!!
>>>>Mirelle
>>>
>>>That's "Licensed, registered Baby-Killer" to you, baby.
>>
>>I completely agree, American soldiers are licensed, registered Baby-
>>Killers.
>>
>>http://mirellebonte.livejournal.com/
>>
>>Mirelle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Why a baby just doesn't make good body-armor.
>>> Not when Muslims assert to shoot from behind theirs or you assert
>>>to throw turds from behind yours.
>>
>>>/Metzada lo tippol shenit/.
>>
>
> Mirelle I wish our soldiers would kill you skunk lady.
Flies make better target practice.
They're smaller, they're faster, they're more agile.
But mainly, they're smarter.
(Eh?
(I have yet to meet a fly who squatted in the middle of my pie,
gibbering at me that it owned my whole kitchen.)
B'inyamin C'r'amer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:FOChj.51163$8Z1.50303@trnddc05...
Here's the vision of your mentor, cohen.
Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
My Master holds the rope just so.
He knows me. Knows my moods. Knows the fear behind my eyes, both real and
imagined.
Those eyes widen as he gently lays the rope down, as he carefully,
methodically, systematically, lays the toys down on the bed.
Soft moans escape from behind gagged lips. I have been told to watch.
To see each and know that soon each will touch me.
He looks up briefly as he lays each down on the bed. Checking reactions.
Watching.
The short whip. A sigh.
The deerskin. The suede.
The small braided thong, the one that stings. A short moan.
The horsehair that stings but never marks.
The canes. The paddles. A pause.
I wait, knowing.
The small velvet bag that holds clamps. Clamps too severe for my breasts,
yet applied anyway.
A gasp. And then his smile.
He knows me. He knows I will take the pain to please him. He knows the
sacrifice I make to his Gods of Pain. He sees the torment in my eyes. The
desire to please. The love. The fear of the pain.
My Master holds the rope just so.
Through his fingers, around my wrists, making delicate rings softer than
steel. Stronger than steel. One on each wrist, a gentle bracelet that is
soon pulled tight, stretched to the bedposts and wrapped tightly. One on
each ankle. No matter how I tighten my muscles as he wraps the rope, still
it is perfectly tight. The circulation moves.
The ankle does not.
I lie face-up on the bed, my body a perfect X. Face up. Oh, Goddess, he's
going to whip my breasts.
But first, two small wooden clothespins bob before my eyes. I turn my
head, remember I am instructed to watch, turn back. The clothespins bite
the delicate flesh of each nipple. Grasp. Sting. Burn. He waits.
My Master knows me. Knows he can whip me, clothespins and all. Knows the
pain, where it will hurt the most, what I can and cannot take.
He waits.
The burning increases as the pins are removed. Ah, he will not whip me
with clothespins in place. But the moment when I was unsure, when the
blood pounded in my temples and the fear covered me like a shroud, then he
watched my eyes.
The whip falls. Which one is it now? I cannot turn my head to see which he
reaches for. But I know them all. I arch my back, try to stay still.
My Master knows me. Knows I will hold position as long as possible, before
the pain forces me to writhe, to turn, to try in vain to shield my
breasts. Knows the moment when I can no longer stay still. And precisely
then, says gently, "Don't move."
My Master holds the rope just so. Gently tugging at the knots, to release
arms and legs from bondage. Gently unwraps each wrist, each ankle. Rubs
each, and kisses the places where the rope has left its mark. The gag is
removed. I swallow.
"Kneel."
I crouch on the bed, head down, ass up, as he mounts the bed behind me.
His hands caress my ass softly, then spank sharply. Slowly, quickly, his
hand falls upon my ass. I wait for the moment, the pain/pleasure as he
will enter me. But not yet. First a gentle tapping, soft touch, as he
marks the place the cane will fall. I brace myself, plead with myself to
hold position, knowing each stroke brings a fire hotter than any flame.
Five strokes. Six. I have not moved. As the pain from each begins to
subside, a soft, half-sob. "Thank you, Master."
Eight. Nine. My knees give out, and I fall to the bed, sobbing. But
immediately back on my knees again. "Thank you, Master."
Ten. I am aware of nothing, save the pain. And his voice, as I am
commanded to orgasm, not from stimulation, not from his fingers or his
cock, but from pain alone. My body responds without hesitation. My
pleasure is screamed out for his pleasure.
Later, I will feel his cock inside me. I will feel the force as he thrusts
deep into me, bruising the tender flesh with his strength. Later I will
come, and come, and come, but only by his command. Later, we will lie
back, exhausted, as he cradles me in his arms, strokes me gently, whispers
in my ear.
But not yet.
Now he rises from the bed, returns to the toys so carefully laid out before
me.
My Master holds the rope just so.
Sassy Sara
>
> Susan
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, Dennis is a professional academic, of course, who pretends to be
a poet. So, he has to create rules in order to justiify his own
existence. And then try to enforce them with ridicule as a weapon.
My definition of an academic is "someone who says as little as
possible in as many words as possible." He probably wouldn't have
cared much for the poem in the original, either.
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mirelle, Mirelle, Mirelle.
Bialik was a Russian jew who died in 1934. He probably had Zionist
leanings, but the poem is hardly a Zionist tract. The only lines in
it that could be interpreted as being remotely Zionist are:
"Wandering vagabonds arise midst desert,
Seek the fallen Temple, where lie their ancestors,
They point the path of exile, "
And, even here, the intention may be more symbolic than literal. It
is a poem about longing, about life. Not specifically about Israel or
Zionism. Actually, I'm not in favor of the continued American
presence in Iraq, myself, and I like your poems. Please, do not
attack anything and everything Jewish simply because it is Jewish.
Antisemitism is not insight, and it is hardly an innovation.
Antisemitism is beneath you. There is considerable insight in this
culture. This poem is an example of that fact.
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Interesting Dennis. Interesting. Actually, rather poetic. In a
Lewis Caroll kind of way. Nonsense Verse. But, amusing nonsense
verse.
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here's the original, if you're interested. My translation is fairly
literal. I've taken liberties, more with the rhythm and grammar than
with the meaning. I don't think poetry can really be "translated".
It can only be "interpreted".
Mirelle
> Here's the original, if you're interested. My translation is fairly
> literal. I've taken liberties, more with the rhythm and grammar than
> with the meaning. I don't think poetry can really be "translated".
> It can only be "interpreted".
> http://benyehuda.org/bialik/bia005.html
Thanks.
My husband of 31 years is Jewish.
I will have him look at the original, then read your translation, and
see if he thinks it does it justice.
There is another line that suggests zionism, other than the ones you
mentioned in another post in this thread, it is:
"A thousand years of tears, the debt is owed --"
Here is another one of my poems:
"Gardenias"
The pedestrian army, know not gardenias.
I ride my horse...chain gloves, on these piano hands
-- poetry books, in my backpack.
Gardenias...easily destroyed;
the mass, prefer plastic imitations.
Mirelle
Mirelle
> It can only be "interpreted".
I disagree.
For example, R.J. Nicholson, took twenty years, along with 25 scholars
to translate The Mathnawi, by Jalal'uDin Rumi.
It is a LITERAL translation; thus the poetic aspect of the work is
vastly diminished, however, the essence is not lost.
Whereas, the recent translations of Rumi, by authors who did not go
and translate from the original Arabic, who merely translated from the
work of Nicholson's literal translation, no longer resemble Rumi's
work, even slightly.
I believe, when it comes to mystic poetry, it takes a mystic to
translate the poetry -- if it is translated using poetic license;
otherwise the "interpretation" is missing the transcendent aspect that
came from the transcendent experience of the poet.
For example, Kabir, has been translated by many people.
The only decent translation is the one by Rabindranath Tagore, who
himself was a mystic.
Another poem I wrote:
"Endless Grace"
Walking softly in the meadow, amongst rainbow, wild-flower array
Every flower -- different, vivid, varying hues of color on each face
Noisome irritations -- crowds cheer for...foreign here, I long to
forever stay;
Where geese stop for refuge in long flight; soft moss dwelling-place
Serene leaves swaying...dancing, beauty...that ner' betrays;
Innocent, tender hearts: wild-flower meadow...place of endless grace.
Mirelle
Mirelle
> Blue-footed boobkes pooping,
> Baby robins shitting --
> They make your writing
> Sound completely natural.
I am going to take poetic license here, the original is from a song/
poem by Leonard Cohen.
Part of original:
"Hallelujah"
Now I've heard there was a secret chord
That David played, and it pleased the Lord
But you don't really care for music, do Ya'?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now I've hear there is a secret chord
That birds sing, and it pleases the Lord
But you don't care much for birds, do Ya'?
Mirelle
Mirelle
Mirelle
>Please, do not
> attack anything and everything Jewish simply because it is Jewish.
> Antisemitism is not insight, and it is hardly an innovation.
Anti-Semitism, and ant-Zionism, are two completely different things.
I perceive the poem to be written by a zionist.
zionism, existed before 'israel' was created.
You say he died in 1934.
zionism was alive and UNWELL even at that time!
I would like to know how criticizing zionism and 'israel' is anti-
Semitic?
Anti-Semitism, is used as a weapon to intimidate people into silence,
when it comes to zionist and 'israeli' aggression and atrocities.
Anti-Zionism, is not Anti-Semitism.
Jews who use this tactic are promoting anti-Semitism, for people are
furious with 'israel' and their damned lobby, when their voices are
silenced with accusations of anti-Semitism by Jews; it is a set up for
the very thing the person is accused of, and, puts Jews who oppose
zionism, at high risk for anti-Semitism.
Zionism, is the main cause of anti-Semitism these days.
I am married to a Jewish man for 31 years, he, like many other good
Jews, are worried that all Jews will be painted with the same brush,
when even more people get fed up with zionists and 'israel.'
There is a serious threat to Jews that 'israel' will ignite the ugly
face of anti-Semitism, like never seen before -- even worse than what
the Nazis did.
Mirelle
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> Here's the original, if you're interested. My translation is fairly
> literal. I've taken liberties, more with the rhythm and grammar than
> with the meaning. I don't think poetry can really be "translated".
> It can only be "interpreted".
>
> http://benyehuda.org/bialik/bia005.html
>
I am interested, but can't do anything with it since the destruction
of 2/3 of my library by a religious fanatic.
One doesn't "take liberties" with the rhythms of a translation so
much as one uses the rhythms of the receiving language, which often
differ from those of the parent.
But one can not "take liberties" with the grammar and have the
"meaning" remain intact. The piles of gerunds don't /do/ anything
the original probably did, and only manage to assert that the
original has the voice of a sullen fourth-grader.
The sense /can/ be translated. What goes missing is the rhythms
and voice of the original. A poet can rewrite the translation as an
original poem in the receiving language, at which point Translators
will howl that the result "isn't a translation." You takes your
pick, because sound is the foundation of poetry, and sounds, esp.
rhythms, differ radically among some languages.
But "interpreting" the Holy Ghost only proves that the "Interpreter"
has no idea what "the Holy Ghost" is. Leave that crap to the Holy
Rollers.
As the lady seD, "pursue your vision."
But have a sense of what goes into leaving the map; maps are very
rule-bound things.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 11, 7:48 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Here's the original, if you're interested. My translation is fairly
>>literal. I've taken liberties, more with the rhythm and grammar than
>>with the meaning. I don't think poetry can really be "translated".
>>It can only be "interpreted".
>
>
>>http://benyehuda.org/bialik/bia005.html
>
>
> Thanks.
> My husband of 31 years is Jewish.
> I will have him look at the original, then read your translation, and
> see if he thinks it does it justice.
> There is another line that suggests zionism, other than the ones you
> mentioned in another post in this thread, it is:
> "A thousand years of tears, the debt is owed --"
>
I'll suggest that you're a tad too sensitive about "something."
/All/ religions having a "paradise" in any sense are "zionist" in
that "Zion" is little more than another word for (such a) "Paradise."
Were this poem "Zionist" (in the modern sense), the accusation would
be "2000" years, not the generic "a thousand years," an eon, a
"really-really long-time."
When a Classical Middle-Eastern poet says "forty days" or "forty
days and nights" or "forty camels," he's trying not to sound
primitive for saying "many-many." A Classical Greek writing the same
passage would put "fifty," a Classical Roman or Englishman, "a hundred."
There's also a "thing" about Judaism, esp. notable in the Psalms,
e.g., that /God/ (YHWH), not even the people who are asserted to have
"caused" it, "owes" the Jews for their "suffering," because "They"
/didn't/ "cause it."
Because of cuss, it is "God (,He)" "Who" has Caused Everything:
Yis'ga'dal v'yis'kadash sh'may ra'bbo, b'olmo dee'vro chir'usay
v'yamlich malchu'say, b'chayaychon uv'yomay'chon uv'chayay d'chol
bais Yisroel, ba'agolo u'viz'man koriv; v'imru Omein.
This "Personal Omnipotence" seems peculiarly Middle-Eastern, and is
not original with Abraham.
Oseh sholom bimromov, hu ya'aseh sholom olaynu.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 11, 7:48 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't think poetry can really be "translated".
>>It can only be "interpreted".
>
>
> I disagree.
> For example, R.J. Nicholson, took twenty years, along with 25 scholars
> to translate The Mathnawi, by Jalal'uDin Rumi.
> It is a LITERAL translation; thus the poetic aspect of the work is
> vastly diminished, however, the essence is not lost.
> Whereas, the recent translations of Rumi, by authors who did not go
> and translate from the original Arabic, who merely translated from the
> work of Nicholson's literal translation, no longer resemble Rumi's
> work, even slightly.
> I believe, when it comes to mystic poetry, it takes a mystic to
> translate the poetry -- if it is translated using poetic license;
> otherwise the "interpretation" is missing the transcendent aspect that
> came from the transcendent experience of the poet.
> For example, Kabir, has been translated by many people.
> The only decent translation is the one by Rabindranath Tagore, who
> himself was a mystic.
>
Tsk.
This is the best thing you've written all week, and it's simply
too bad that you can't have your Kate and Edith.
Words either have exact meanings, as you note, or they are
"mystic," meaning only that they mean whatever you need them to
"mean" at the moment (and thus, of cuss, mean nothing at any time).
If by "mystic" is meant one who has kickable (and thus demonstrable)
knowledge of "the mysteries," that's another matter.
But there are thus better words for such folks than "mystic."
Proper translation demonstrates the kick in its own tongue, which
requires that the translator know how that kick is delivered, if he
is not actually able to deliver it himself.
There's a terrible attitude toward the word "mystic," and indeed "the
mysteries," had by permanent four-year-olds.
It's this, that if a thing is known or can be known, it "isn't
mystic" and is "therefore" "not what is meant by The Mysteries."
Piffle.
Rather than painting themselves into a corner, they've painted
themselves right out of the room.
We've been kicking "the mysteries" into the common speech, tools,
and toys for 4000 years this trip.
Don't ask me, ask your sword.
Or your computer. You're reading this through "The Holy Ghost" of a
"Stone Golem."
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 11, 7:40 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Please, do not
>>attack anything and everything Jewish simply because it is Jewish.
>>Antisemitism is not insight, and it is hardly an innovation.
>
>
> Anti-Semitism, and ant-Zionism, are two completely different things.
> I perceive the poem to be written by a zionist.
And I don't, even as poor as the translation here may be.
I see it as no more in that sense than Jerry seZ it is. Maybe
he'll put some more effort into the translation, and we'll see more
of what Bialik seZ it is.
It's self-evident that your "insight" is colored by your knee-jerk
toward Certain Words, which is a pecularly juvenile condition.
Something your "insight" routinely fails to note is that a real
"Zionist" is one up on you in that he's willing to establish /and
defend/ his own State.
So far, you've shown no more than a willingness to pout at him
about it.
When /you/ can say, "Metzada lo tippol shenit," you might
understand something about Zions.
They ain't freebies.
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:FOChj.51163$8Z1.50303@trnddc05...
>
>>
>> On 10-Jan-2008, Jerry Kraus <jkrau...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 10, 2:37 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
>>> > friendly old dog wrote:
>>> > > On Jan 9, 1:20 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >>Night Thoughts
>>> >
>>> > >>Hayyim Nahman Bialik
>>> >
>>> > >>Fearful cry -- Nightowl midst desert,
...
>>> > >>My tears they cease -- by thy gentle balm!
>>> >
>>> > >>Translated from Hebrew by Jerome Raymond Kraus (2008)
>>> > >>© Copyright Jerome Raymond Kraus (2008)
>>> >
>>> > > I am not a reader of poetry. I am touched by this poem. It seems to
>>> > > connect with my private feelings.
>>> >
>>> > I am a reader of poetry. This isn't.
>>> >
>>>
>>> What is it, exactly, Dennis?
>>
>>
>> It's obviously just something he doesn't like.
>> But don't pay any attention to naysayers:
>> you pursue your vision!!
>
>
> Here's the vision of your mentor, cohen.
>
> Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
>
>
> My Master holds the rope just so.
>
> He knows me. Knows my moods. Knows the fear behind my eyes, both real and
> imagined.
>
...
This is a better poem than the Bialik.
In the first place, it knows itself.
In the second, it knows what it wants to say.
In the third, it knows what it must say to say it.
In the fourth, it doesn't wander around saying something else.
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> Well, Dennis is a professional academic, of course, who pretends to be
> a poet. So, he has to create rules in order to justiify his own
> existence. And then try to enforce them with ridicule as a weapon.
> My definition of an academic is "someone who says as little as
> possible in as many words as possible." He probably wouldn't have
> cared much for the poem in the original, either.
>
You fonny.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 11, 3:21 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
>
>>Jerry Kraus wrote:
>>
>>>On Jan 10, 2:37 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>friendly old dog wrote:
>>
>>>>>On Jan 9, 1:20 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>Night Thoughts
>>
...
>>
>>>>> I am not a reader of poetry. I am touched by this poem. It seems to
>>>>>connect with my private feelings.
>>
>>>>I am a reader of poetry. This isn't.
>>
>>>What is it, exactly, Dennis?
>>
>>If you can't tell, what difference does it make?
>>
>>If you can see nothing but the Holy Words, what more can you want?
>> More to the point, what more can you possibly want to know?
>>
>>The process of acquiring a language will cost you all your Holy
>>Powers, so don't go there.
>>
>
> Interesting Dennis. Interesting. Actually, rather poetic. In a
> Lewis Caroll kind of way. Nonsense Verse. But, amusing nonsense
> verse.
>
That language be nonsense is, of course, the only way to maintain The
Mysteries.
And to maintain The Mysteries is the only way to maintain their
Holy Powowers.
Oh, no, no, no.
Don't ask /me/.
Ask your sword.
Because if you ask Carroll, you'll perceive only nonsense.
Now be off, or I'll kick you downstairs.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 11, 1:34 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
>
>>Blue-footed boobkes pooping,
>> Baby robins shitting --
>>They make your writing
>> Sound completely natural.
>
>
> I am going to take poetic license here, the original is from a song/
> poem by Leonard Cohen.
> Part of original:
>
> "Hallelujah"
>
> Now I've heard there was a secret chord
> That David played, and it pleased the Lord
> But you don't really care for music, do Ya'?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Now I've hear there is a secret chord
> That birds sing, and it pleases the Lord
> But you don't care much for birds, do Ya'?
>
> Mirelle
>
Not knowing what you said, you said it.
/hashi kireru
botan tsugitsugi ni
saki yureru/
There are secret chords
in every thing, that please the Lord.
But you care only they be secret.
Doncha.
___________
cutting edge
peony after peony
shakes its head
Jerry Kraus
Well, I have to admit Mirelle, I don't plan on spending 25 years on
the translation! I haven't the patience for that.
Regarding Rumi, are you familiar with the poet Eric Ashford? He
writes a great deal on Rumi, and I correspond with him sometimes. He
tends to be quite complementary about my writing. Perhaps he's
humoring me. Mind you, Eric IS a mystic.
Jerry Kraus
Oh, I understand the difference between anti-semitism and anti-
Zionism. And, I suppose you are probably anti-Zionist, but not
antisemitic, from what you tell me. But, I think you may be a little
paranoid about Zionism, particularly in the case of this particular
poem I have attempted to translate. Maybe that is understandable,
given the militarism of the Israelis. But, really, none of the
writers on the site benyehuda.org -- where this poem was taken from --
are even slightly militaristic, even when they are Zionists. They
attempt to present Zionism as a natural development from economics and
psychology. Obvioiusly, that is not the position of the Israeli
government! Israel is an armed camp.
Jerry Kraus
Pretty good criticism, Dennis. Obviously, I write quickly. I
probably could write better poetry if I wrote more slowly, but I
suppose I haven't the patience. Too many gerunds? Perhaps. English
isn't the easiest language to write poetry in. Too little phonetic
homogeneity to make rhymes easy to find. Spanish is much better.
Russian is better. I'm working on a Russian translation of this poem,
which I think will be somewhat better. I could show it to you when
I'm done, if you're interested.
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think Israel may want her neighbors to be a little paranoid about
Zionism, David. Keeps them in line, you know.
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you familiar with the poet and mystic Eric Ashford, Dennis? I
correspond with him sometimes.
Mirelle
> Regarding Rumi, are you familiar with the poet Eric Ashford? He
> writes a great deal on Rumi, and I correspond with him sometimes. He
> tends to be quite complementary about my writing. Perhaps he's
> humoring me. Mind you, Eric IS a mystic.
Yes, I am familiar with the poetry of Eric Ashford.
I sincerely doubt that Eric Ashford is humoring you when he
compliments your work.
Poets like Eric Ashford, who have poems "come to them", would not
treat poetry in such a trifling way -- as to be insincere about poetry
and lie about liking your writing.
As for some of his work, I have advice for him.
Tell him that many of his works are glorious, transcendent, perfume-
like, mystical...
However, he needs to study the use of metaphor more thoroughly when it
comes to using sexual metaphors for the Beloved -- God.
It is an art -- he has not mastered.
In some poems it works very well, in others, it is clumsy,
inappropriate and does not convey merger with the Divine, it stays
sexual; thus it would be more appropriate to have the poem be one of
sexuality, rather than an attempt to make it into communion with the
Divine.
Even Leonardn Cohen, makes the same mistakes in his poetry -- when it
comes to the long tradition of using sexual metaphors for Divinity.
Sometimes it works, at other times his own sexual desires contaminate
the piece, for it does not convey the Divine, only his sexually. Now
mind you there is nothing wrong with erotic, sexual poetry; the
problem arises when the two are mixed to convey Divine Union -- when
the poet is not aware of injecting their own sexual desires -- then it
is erotic, sexual poetry, not Divine Union poetry.
But, hey, it is an on-going journey, to complete the diamond in the
rough.
Please let him know that in my opinion, stick with writing his own
poetry, leave Rumi alone, it is as horrible as Colman Barks -- who
butchers Rumi; by turning Rumi into a breath based "Vipassana"
Buddhism, projection, since that is what Colman Barks is into.
I have yet to read poems of Rumi that are translated by another poet,
that do not utterly butcher Rumi's work.
I like the poem Eric Ashford wrote below:
"A Glancing Blow"
It happened again
Your glancing blow
made the sky tremble.
My body flowered
within a bright rain-cloud
as if You had touched me
in-between my life
and Yours.
And because there is nothing
between my life and Yours
we both said:
My God!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW, if you or Eric Ashford ever wish to e-mail me, I only answer e-
mail to this address:
mirellelafleur @ gmail . com (Spaces left in order to not have e-mail
blocked by google, due to anonymity and privacy laws)
Mirelle
Mirelle
> Oh, I understand the difference between anti-semitism and anti-
> Zionism. And, I suppose you are probably anti-Zionist,
Correct.
> but not
> antisemitic, from what you tell me.
Correct.
> But, I think you may be a little
> paranoid about Zionism,
Not at all.
"Zion", is a Spiritual State -- not a piece of land.
As is "The New Jerusalem", as envisioned by John in Revelations -- it
is not a piece of land.
Zionism, is based on a piece of land.
Thus committing IDOLATRY, replacing the Living G-D with a piece of
land; to make the matter even worse, it was done via the sword!
Thus, violating Isaiah's vision:
"They shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into
pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither
shall they learn war any more."
> particularly in the case of this particular
> poem I have attempted to translate.
No, I believe that the poet was a zionist.
> Maybe that is understandable,
> given the militarism of the Israelis. But, really, none of the
> writers on the site benyehuda.org -- where this poem was taken from --
> are even slightly militaristic, even when they are Zionists.
Perhaps not in their poems, however, zionism by it's nature -- is
militaristic.
That is why The True Torah Jews condemn it.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
> They
> attempt to present Zionism as a natural development from economics and
> psychology. Obvioiusly, that is not the position of the Israeli
> government! Israel is an armed camp.
Indeed.
Mirelle
Mirelle
> There's also a "thing" about Judaism, esp. notable in the Psalms,
> e.g., that /God/ (YHWH), not even the people who are asserted to have
> "caused" it, "owes" the Jews for their "suffering," because "They"
> /didn't/ "cause it."
> Because of cuss, it is "God (,He)" "Who" has Caused Everything:
Well then -- pay all the money back *only Jews* were given for their
suffering during WWII!
Also, give back the money that Germany had to pay to 'israel' for the
suffering of *Jews only* during WWII!
Take the returned money -- since in your belief, "God (,He)" "Who" has
Caused Everything", and give it to the other victims who out-number
the Jews during WWII! Such as my family, who lost dozens of relatives
and my father was wounded fighting Nazis in Yugoslavia.
The Serbs held back six battalions of Nazis with knives and machetes,
until they took the weapons from the dead Nazis.
THEY are never counted in "Lest We Forget.' Yet one million eight
hundred and fifty thousand Serbs were killed during WWII.
The highest number per capita of any race/religion during the WWII.
Yet, not one penny of compensation, nor mention of them in the *Jews
Only* "Holocaust".
It was WWI, not a "Holocaust!"
Because, calling it a "Holocaust," only counts the Jews!
HOW OUTRAGEOUS.
LEST WE FORGET THAT OTHERS SUFFERED, DIED AND WRERE INJURED, NOT *ONLY
JEWS*!
My husband who is Jewish, and lost relatives during WWII, has not once
called WWII a "Holocaust."
Since, calling WWI the "Holocaust", implies "special suffering" *for
Jews Only*, that does not honor and remember ALL who suffered and
fought against the Nazis!
LEST WE
FORGET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mirelle
Mirelle
What a bunch of wasted VERBIAGE, to 'theorize' that the word "mystic"
does not derive from "knowing the mysteries'!
Are you really this stupid, or are you playing mind games?
Mirelle
Mirelle
> There are secret chords
> in every thing, that please the Lord.
> But you care only they be secret.
> Doncha.
No.
I said:
But you don't care much for birds, do Ya'?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Example:
"Blue-footed boobkes pooping,
Baby robins shitting --"
**********************************************************************
"Creek Singing"
Walking beside the creek,
I hear a whisper...
Carefully, I climb down;
The water, tells me...
The concept of it "babbling"
Comes from misogyny,
Where women, are said ---
To talk too much -- and nag!
I take off my shoes and socks;
Dance...to the music...
As the creek, so lovingly...
Sings it's symphonies to me.
http://mirellebonte.livejournal.com/
http://wwwpeacenow.blogspot.com/
Mirelle
Dennis M. Hammes
> I think Israel may want her neighbors to be a little paranoid about
> Zionism, David. Keeps them in line, you know.
>
They had Gideon, they had Joshua, they had Moshe Dyan.
I think they did a better job of that than Zionism, hmmMMM?
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 12, 1:08 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
>
>>There's also a "thing" about Judaism, esp. notable in the Psalms,
>>e.g., that /God/ (YHWH), not even the people who are asserted to have
>>"caused" it, "owes" the Jews for their "suffering," because "They"
>>/didn't/ "cause it."
>> Because of cuss, it is "God (,He)" "Who" has Caused Everything:
>
>
> Well then -- pay all the money back *only Jews* were given for their
> suffering during WWII!
When in hell did /that/ happen? The only "reparations" I've heard of
to date resulted from the "unfreezing" of some Jewish assets held in
Swiss banks since before the war. And only to those who could
demonstrate legal inheritance. Say about five percent...
> Also, give back the money that Germany had to pay to 'israel' for the
> suffering of *Jews only* during WWII!
Did I miss something here?
And why squall about that?
Only one country has repaid its "WWII debt" to /anybody/, let
alone the U.S.: Sweden.
> Take the returned money -- since in your belief, "God (,He)" "Who" has
Tsk. Not my "belief." My report of a belief. Check it out yourself
any time during the last 3200 years -- that we /know/ of.
> Caused Everything", and give it to the other victims who out-number
> the Jews during WWII!
>
Lest We Forget, Hitler ordered the executions of some seven million
Germans who were /not/ "Jews" in the same period.
Oh, wait, they outnumber "six million Jews," too, don't they.
(Funny things happen when you try to live on Funny Money, don't they.)
Lest We Forget, "/Geheim Staats Polizei/" may be exactly translated
as "Home Landt Securitei."
"Those who learn nothing from history are doomed to whatever."
-- George Santasomething
> Such as my family, who lost dozens of relatives
> and my father was wounded fighting Nazis in Yugoslavia.
Oh. I guess the only reason I know the difference between WWI and
WWII is that my daddy went to one and my brother to the other, and I
know the difference between /them/.
(P.S.: They were both Germans, which makes me, ah, em...)
(Eh? No, one swore in under Pershing, the other slogged from
Salerno to Czechloslovakia with Patton, passing within a couple miles
of my father-in-law at Monte Cassino.)
> The Serbs held back six battalions of Nazis with knives and machetes,
> until they took the weapons from the dead Nazis.
Well. That answers the question, "What kind of moron fetches a sword
to a gunfight," dunnit.
(Actually not; that question has a real answer you won't like,
either.)
> THEY are never counted in "Lest We Forget.' Yet one million eight
> hundred and fifty thousand Serbs were killed during WWII.
Mostly by C'etniks and Royalists, i.e., by "other Yugoslavs."
(You're welcome.)
Oh, wait, they were still doing that a few years ago, weren't they.
Tsk.
> The highest number per capita of any race/religion during the WWII.
Sri, Princess, that honor still goes to Shinto.
(If not to "European Jews," that is.)
> Yet, not one penny of compensation, nor mention of them in the *Jews
> Only* "Holocaust".
> It was WWI, not a "Holocaust!"
WWI, WWII, make up your mind.
P.S.: Ever hear of the firebombing of Dresden or Tokyo?
Can /you/ say, "firestorm"?
(Can /you/ say, "holocaust sauce"?)
> Because, calling it a "Holocaust," only counts the Jews!
> HOW OUTRAGEOUS.
Who in HELL ever called WWII "The Holocaust"?
(Besides yourself...)
> LEST WE FORGET THAT OTHERS SUFFERED, DIED AND WRERE INJURED, NOT *ONLY
> JEWS*!
> My husband who is Jewish, and lost relatives during WWII, has not once
> called WWII a "Holocaust."
> Since, calling WWI
>
What's this, anyway.
"WWI, WWII,
Button my beanie and burn a Jew"?
If you can't even remember which war you're squalling about (twice in
one post), you only destroy what credibility...
Naaah.
I can't see that your sort of tantrums ever had any credibility to
destroy.
So you may as well carry on.
(For the entertainment.)
>
> the "Holocaust", implies "special suffering" *for
> Jews Only*, that does not honor and remember ALL who suffered and
> fought against the Nazis!
Hm. I don't find anywhere that "the Jews" "fought against the Nazis."
In an amusing footnote, one "Israeli" is reported as flying in the
Battle of Britain, i.e., in 1940, eight years before there was such a
thing as an "Israel."
In a not-so-amusing footnote, it seZ severally that six million
Jews were, indeed, granted "special suffering" not applied to the
Germans' other enemies /or/ allies (C'etniks, Italians, Finns, Vichy,
etc.).
> LEST WE
> FORGET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
<insert full (daily) panel of Snoopy swimming ashore 6 June 1944>
P.S.: Did you know that more U.S. citizens died on the morning of
"9/11" than died at Ford Island, Schofield Barracks, and Hickham
Field on the morning of 7 Dec 1941?*
(Look it up.)
P.P.S.: Did you know that on the morning of 7 Dec 1981, fully two
thirds of U.S. high-school graduates had never even heard /of/ "Pearl
Harbor"?**
And that of the one third who had heard /of/ it, only one percent
could correctly identify the event?**
Talk about Apostolic Succession on the Curve.
Talk about the Right To "Vote."
Like, wow.
Lest we whatever...
>>
>>Oseh sholom bimromov, hu ya'aseh sholom olaynu.
>>
__________
* Public record.
** Statistic furnished by Columbia University, date (sample = 6500).
Since I didn't believe it, I took my own (sample = 670). Around
here, it was two percent of the one-third.
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> Are you familiar with the poet and mystic Eric Ashford, Dennis? I
> correspond with him sometimes.
>
Not to remember it, but I don't believe I've read him.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 12, 1:22 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
> What a bunch of wasted VERBIAGE, to 'theorize' that the word "mystic"
> does not derive from "knowing the mysteries'!
> Are you really this stupid, or are you playing mind games?
I was merely replying to your useage of the word.
I didn't think you'd take kindly to being remainded that the words
"mystery" and "mastery" refer to the same bound, /moustein/, but from
opposite sides of it.
So I didn't. But you may note that the addresses, "mister" and
"master," derive directly.
Dennis M. Hammes
I would be forced to pretend, as I have no Russian to speak of.
But /dozhvedanya/.
As for English's being difficult to rhyme in, you're talking to the
wrong d00d. I wish I could push a button and send you a copy of
/RimeTyme/ (my electric rhyming dictionary), but WinDoze XP refuses
to load WordStar's printer drivers, so I have to make a text copy by
hand.
But you don't really need it. That American has 36 vowels (Shaw
claims 41 for British) is no problem if you use your ears.
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> Israel is an armed camp.
>
One can hardly blame them.
Since Yahoo! adapted NetScape as its interface of choice, Net 'n'
Yahoo has been under constant attack from this shi'ite called "Windows."
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 12, 7:57 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Oh, I understand the difference between anti-semitism and anti-
>>Zionism. And, I suppose you are probably anti-Zionist,
>
>
> Correct.
>
>
>>but not
>>antisemitic, from what you tell me.
>
>
> Correct.
>
>
>>But, I think you may be a little
>>paranoid about Zionism,
>
>
> Not at all.
> "Zion", is a Spiritual State -- not a piece of land.
> As is "The New Jerusalem", as envisioned by John in Revelations -- it
> is not a piece of land.
> Zionism, is based on a piece of land.
> Thus committing IDOLATRY, replacing the Living G-D with a piece of
> land; to make the matter even worse, it was done via the sword!
> Thus, violating Isaiah's vision:
> "They shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into
> pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither
> shall they learn war any more."
>
That was a warning, dip. Read it in something besides British TrVe
Protestant, then read the rest of the passage:
"...and next Tuesday, the Wolves shall eat them."
Of course, the part /you/ like best is that "...children shall lead
them, and women with children shall rule them, and they shall call
this the Glory of Zion."
("...and next Wednesday, the Wolves shall dine on children, probably
saving the women for last.")
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 12, 2:24 am, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlm...@arvig.net> wrote:
>
>>There are secret chords
>>in every thing, that please the Lord.
>>But you care only they be secret.
>>Doncha.
>
>
> No.
> I said:
> But you don't care much for birds, do Ya'?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Example:
>
> "Blue-footed boobkes pooping,
> Baby robins shitting --"
> **********************************************************************
>
> "Creek Singing"
>
>
> Walking beside the creek,
> I hear a whisper...
> Carefully, I climb down;
> The water, tells me...
> The concept of it "babbling"
> Comes from misogyny,
> Where women, are said ---
> To talk too much -- and nag!
It is a wise creek that knows its own girlfriend.
Babel
Walking by the creek from end to end,
I am reminded of my female friend.
There is more babble in a single brook
Than in a month's worth of my e-mail, friend.
The sparrows add their chatter and the song
Becomes a noise bores any male friend.
He takes his jackknife and he starts to carve
The heart and letters of his female friend.
The squirrels begin to kek and crows add caws,
For letters are a mystery, mail-friend.
The squirrels are mystic, for their little speech
Is undeciphered by my female friend.
I am to agree they can't be known,
And back to her by remail, friend.
The den is mystery where dragons lurk,
That she wants rid not ridden -- my female friend.
OB
Nice, (Though I don't get the antepenult. line)
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
MIrelle, I'm aware of the True Torah Jews who follow certain teachings
of the Talmud, which claim that Jews must not enter the Holy Land
until the Messiah has come. Even they, however, do not claim that
Zion is purely a spiritual state. They simply don't think the Messiah
has yet arrived. And the Koran itself seems to be somewhat ambivalent
on whether Jews have title to Israel or not. Obviously, the Tanach,
or the Christian Old Testament is rather clear on the point that Jews
DO have title to the Holy Land!
Mirelle
> MIrelle, I'm aware of the True Torah Jews who follow certain teachings
> of the Talmud, which claim that Jews must not enter the Holy Land
> until the Messiah has come. Even they, however, do not claim that
> Zion is purely a spiritual state. They simply don't think the Messiah
> has yet arrived.
I never said the True Torah Jews believe that "Zion" is a Spiritual
state.
I said they are against zionism.
Due to the reasons you said, also, due to the militant aspect of
'israel's' inception and it's maintenance -- being militant.
The Kabbala, does say that "Zion" is a Spiritual state.
> And the Koran itself seems to be somewhat ambivalent
> on whether Jews have title to Israel or not.
Site the Sura, please.
>Obviously, the Tanach,
> or the Christian Old Testament is rather clear on the point that Jews
> DO have title to the Holy Land!
The main world being "OLD."
No other peoples have demanded by military force a piece of land where
title is allegedly given from thousands of years ago -- that comes
from scripture, to boot! The ONLY people to be so outrageous, is the
zionists...who are mostly ATHEISTS!!!!!!!!!!
Excuse my language, but that is FUCKING OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mirelle
fla...@verizon.net
On 11-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
> >>What is it, exactly, Dennis?
> >
> >
> > It's obviously just something he doesn't like.
> > But don't pay any attention to naysayers:
> > you pursue your vision!!
> >
> > Susan
>
>
> Sailed off the edge of the Earth recently, Princess?
>
> (Of course you have. Any of the Faithful can. It's what makes them
> superior to the merely mundane.)
Thanks for confessing to being exactly what I thought.
(Big Hint to the innocent: bigots never hate just one innocent group)
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 12-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
> I am interested, but can't do anything with it since the destruction
> of 2/3 of my library by a religious fanatic.
Maybe you had thrown one too many slurs his way, hmm?
fla...@verizon.net
On 12-Jan-2008, Jerry Kraus <jkrau...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think Israel may want her neighbors to be a little paranoid about
> Zionism, David. Keeps them in line, you know.
You think exactly wrong: they were paranoid about
anything non-Muslim before modern Zionism was
ever invented.
Susan
B'iny'amin C'r'amer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:YXvij.1815$UX2.494@trnddc08...
Yeah you do, cohen. You hate all goyim.
Why do you find it necessary to lie, you stupid, dyslexic, thick Irish cunt?
>
> Susan
B'iny'amin C'r'amer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:EYvij.1816$UX2.1629@trnddc08...
So you think it's koshser to destroy a person's books if you don't like
them, cohen?
Does that go along with your reporting as terrorists, those you don't like.
What an asset to your community and country you must be, cohen.
Dennis M. Hammes
"Her." And it didn't matter, since she considered anything anybody
ever said to her to be a slur on the One TrVe Faith, which she alone
was privy to.
Eh?
No. /God/ Told Her.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On Jan 13, 1:26 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Obviously, the Tanach,
>>or the Christian Old Testament is rather clear on the point that Jews
>>DO have title to the Holy Land!
>
>
> The main world being "OLD."
> No other peoples have demanded by military force a piece of land where
> title is allegedly given from thousands of years ago -- that comes
> from scripture, to boot! The ONLY people to be so outrageous, is the
> zionists...who are mostly ATHEISTS!!!!!!!!!!
> Excuse my language, but that is FUCKING OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
Can you say, "China"?
Can you say, "Sudan"?
Can you say, "Zimbabwe"?
Can you say, "Crazy Horse"?
Can you read /Henry V,/ Scene ii?
Dennis M. Hammes
It is one thing for you to belittle your sword because it remains an
oddly-shaped piece of scrap metal when you pick it up.
It is another matter entirely for you belittle /somebody else's/
sword because it remains an oddly-shaped piece of scrap metal when
you pick it up.
The same applies to your pen.
P.S.: Of exactly what are you "innocent"?
I mean, other than knowledge.
Ah, yes. Moral stature.
Dennis M. Hammes
Well, it was a cheap way to get in the "den is," and the Little Lady
was giving us a Lecture on "mystery" earlier, and dragons are not for
slaying, they are for riding.
Oops, you seD /ante/penult. Well, I'm to *agree* that "The
Mysteries" /can't/ be known, and by return mail, sorta like a night
on UseNet. Or a heart-shaped box of chocolates.
It makes anybody who is too chicken to acquire them "Good Enough"
for not-knowing them. (This is not "Theory," but was a Requirement
in six long-term courtships.)
Sri, but I couldn't get rid of the near-extra foot in the ult in five
minutes, so there it sits.
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just a thought. Is there any possibility at all a Palestinian "Nelson
Mandela" might encourage Palestinians to "provisionally" convert to
Judaism as a means of obtaining Israeli citizenship? After all,
Mandela has succeeded in reintegrating South Africa peacefully by
compromising: allowing the White minority to retain many of their
economic privileges while extending freedom of opportunity and the
franchise to the black majority. There are some similarities between
the situation of the Israelis in the middle east and the situation of
the white minority in South Africa. With the notable exception that
it is quite possible for a Muslim to become a Jew.
Jerry Kraus
> On 12-Jan-2008, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I think Israel may want her neighbors to be a little paranoid about
> > Zionism, David. Keeps them in line, you know.
>
> You think exactly wrong: they were paranoid about
> anything non-Muslim before modern Zionism was
> ever invented.
>
> Susan
Just a thought. Is there any possibility at all a Palestinian "Nelson
fla...@verizon.net
On 14-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
> fla...@verizon.net wrote:
>
> > On 12-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I am interested, but can't do anything with it since the destruction
> >>of 2/3 of my library by a religious fanatic.
> >
> >
> > Maybe you had thrown one too many slurs his way, hmm?
>
>
> "Her."
Ah.
Well, considering the precise way in which he attacked me for no reason,
I can't be surprised.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 14-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
> Mirelle wrote:
>
> > On Jan 13, 1:26 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
>
> >
> >>Obviously, the Tanach,
> >>or the Christian Old Testament is rather clear on the point that Jews
> >>DO have title to the Holy Land!
> >
> >
> > The main world being "OLD."
> > No other peoples have demanded by military force a piece of land where
> > title is allegedly given from thousands of years ago -- that comes
> > from scripture, to boot! The ONLY people to be so outrageous, is the
> > zionists...who are mostly ATHEISTS!!!!!!!!!!
> > Excuse my language, but that is FUCKING OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
>
> Can you say, "China"?
> Can you say, "Sudan"?
> Can you say, "Zimbabwe"?
> Can you say, "Crazy Horse"?
> Can you read /Henry V,/ Scene ii?
Can you say "she's lying & your otherwise helpful analogies are missing
the same fact her lies were: to wit, that the land was given to the Jews by
those administering it since the fall of the Ottoman Empire"?
(I just went back up & counted - there are at least 3 lies in that post of
hers; did I miss any more?)
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 14-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
> lav...@verizon.net wrote:
>
> > On 11-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>>What is it, exactly, Dennis?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>It's obviously just something he doesn't like.
> >>>But don't pay any attention to naysayers:
> >>>you pursue your vision!!
> >>>
> >>>Susan
> >>
> >>
> >>Sailed off the edge of the Earth recently, Princess?
> >>
> >>(Of course you have. Any of the Faithful can. It's what makes them
> >>superior to the merely mundane.)
> >
> >
> > Thanks for confessing to being exactly what I thought.
> > (Big Hint to the innocent: bigots never hate just one innocent group)
> >
> > Susan
>
>
> It is one thing for you to belittle your sword because it remains an
> oddly-shaped piece of scrap metal when you pick it up.
>
> It is another matter entirely for you belittle /somebody else's/
> sword because it remains an oddly-shaped piece of scrap metal when
> you pick it up.
>
> The same applies to your pen.
>
So why did you do it?
You did it to both me & to the original poster.
What a hypocrite you are!
> P.S.: Of exactly what are you "innocent"?
> I mean, other than knowledge.
I suppose you meant "OF" other than knowledge, but, being innocent
of knowledge yourself, you missed the correct way to say it?
> Ah, yes. Moral stature.
And that's you, again.
I have the feeling you are actually so stupid that you didn't
realize that you made very vicious, sexist & just plain stupid
remarks to me just because I happened to think someone else
has a right to write poetry & *you* *don't*. I made the gentlest
of disagreements with you, & not even directly, & you flew off
the handle in a spectacularly childish fashion - & then had the
nerve to whine when I paid you back in kind.
Grow up, get educated or at least get some manners - I dare
not hope you will get a character - before you log on again.
fla...@verizon.net
On 14-Jan-2008, Jerry Kraus <jkrau...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Just a thought. Is there any possibility at all a Palestinian "Nelson
> Mandela" might encourage Palestinians to "provisionally" convert to
> Judaism as a means of obtaining Israeli citizenship?
Are you serious that you think this is the problem?
That you think they are actually being denied citizenship, rather than
refusing to get it?
That the entire point is that they hate Jews & will not stand to be under
their rule, even if it means getting everything they *say* they claim
(tho' what they really want is all of Israel for themselves, and all the
Jews dead)
> After all,
> Mandela has succeeded in reintegrating South Africa peacefully by
> compromising: allowing the White minority to retain many of their
> economic privileges while extending freedom of opportunity and the
> franchise to the black majority. There are some similarities between
> the situation of the Israelis in the middle east and the situation of
> the white minority in South Africa.
No, there absolutely is not.
I must have mis-read your previous poem, because I thought you
understood this.
> With the notable exception that
> it is quite possible for a Muslim to become a Jew.
And the notable exception that this isn't the point.
Susan
Mirelle
> Just a thought. Is there any possibility at all a Palestinian "Nelson
> Mandela" might encourage Palestinians to "provisionally" convert to
> Judaism as a means of obtaining Israeli citizenship?
Jerry Kraus, you seriously need to go to zionist rehab.
Mirelle
B'iny'amin C'r'amer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:F7Sij.8251$KU.1784@trnddc01...
>
>> P.S.: Of exactly what are you "innocent"?
>> I mean, other than knowledge.
>
> I suppose you meant "OF" other than knowledge, but, being innocent
> of knowledge yourself, you missed the correct way to say it?
It was said in a perfectly acceptable way, you stupid, dyslexic, thick Irish
cunt. Not that you'd ever be in a position to know.
B'iny'amin C'r'amer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:g1Sij.8245$KU.6105@trnddc01...
>
> On 14-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
>
>> fla...@verizon.net wrote:
>>
>> > On 12-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>I am interested, but can't do anything with it since the destruction
>> >>of 2/3 of my library by a religious fanatic.
>> >
>> >
>> > Maybe you had thrown one too many slurs his way, hmm?
>>
>>
>> "Her."
>
> Ah.
> Well, considering the precise way in which he attacked me for no reason,
You spoke - you deserve to be attacked. That's the way it goes with liars,
B'iny'amin C'r'amer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:q3Sij.9642$na4.936@trnddc05...
Nope. It was swiped by the stinky yids, lying cunt.
B'iny'amin C'r'amer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:G9Sij.8252$KU.7265@trnddc01...
>
> On 14-Jan-2008, Jerry Kraus <jkrau...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Just a thought. Is there any possibility at all a Palestinian "Nelson
>> Mandela" might encourage Palestinians to "provisionally" convert to
>> Judaism as a means of obtaining Israeli citizenship?
>
> Are you serious that you think this is the problem?
> That you think they are actually being denied citizenship, rather than
> refusing to get it?
Yes. Not only that, the yids shoot them.
Dennis M. Hammes
However it is not possible to tell a "Jew" that you are going to
"allow" him to "retain many of" his earnings.
Even so, I hear (on NPR) that Daniel Barenboim has taken out dual
citizenship (adding Palestinian to Israeli), and will give a concert
in the West Bank, probably Jerusalem.
It's something.
Dennis M. Hammes
> On 14-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
>
>
>>fla...@verizon.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 12-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am interested, but can't do anything with it since the destruction
>>>>of 2/3 of my library by a religious fanatic.
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe you had thrown one too many slurs his way, hmm?
>>
>>
>>"Her."
>
>
> Ah.
> Well, considering the precise way in which he attacked me for no reason,
> I can't be surprised.
>
> Susan
Of /course/ there is never a "reason" for "attacking" a Princess.
/She/ is The Law(rrr).
And The Law(rrr) has "eminent domain" (owns) over All That It
Surveys, because it surveys it.
I hear and obey, Princess.
I merely fail to obey your religion, language, and law(rrr) on
those you Don't Like.
I obey it on you.
Hell, it's /yours/.
And it isn't theirs.
And that, O Best Beloved, is why you dress up only those who *agree*
with you in The Powowers ("eminent domain") Which You Have, to
Dispense and to Bestow.
I invite your attention to the single thing about them that
matters to either of us, the single thing for which you Select them
to Wear The Powowers:
They're /perfectly safe/ to have around your cannibal mouth.
Can /you/ say, "The sum of 'safe' is 'safer'?"
Or can you say only one Word at a time?
Like, "Backup"?
>
> And it didn't matter, since she considered anything anybody
>
>>ever said to her to be a slur on the One TrVe Faith, which she alone
>>was privy to.
>> Eh?
>> No. /God/ Told Her.
Dennis M. Hammes
Let's see.
In ~1200 BC, Moses proved that skin stretches more than rubber
when he tied his ass to a tree and walked in the desert for forty days.
This was such an astonishing piece of knowledge that God Hisself
granted ("titled") Canaan to "The Jews," who took it by the simple
expedient of leaving not a man, woman, child, or chicken standing.
Thus, of all the Peoples claiming to own Palestine, there's not a
Canaanite among them. (Imagine that.)
+
Nebuchadnezzar didn't want to "administer" the goddam place, so he
left not a stone upon a stone ("The Wailing Wall" is part of the
/New/ Temple, built "with one hand upon the trowel and the other upon
the sword") when he hauled off "The Jews" to polish up the handles
and pick up ziggurat filters in ["Iraq"].
And yea, "they wept when they remembered Zion," which seems pretty
well to indicate that "Zion" really is a Physical Place, since they
had their harps /and/ "The State Of Mind" of being "The Jews" with
them beside the waters of ["Iraq"].
+
Darius and Xerxes, etc., claimed to "administer" the place around the
time (412 BC) Socrates (a retired general) was defending himself
against "charges" of "impiety" (Failing to suck Holy Cock to the
Baby's Satisfaction), laid by a 17-year-old draft-dodger whose Mommy
sat on the "jury."
(Twenty-five other active-duty generals and field martials were
tried /in absentia/ by the same charges and convicted by the same
"jury." Eight years later, Athens was burned to the ground by the
closest barbs some of those generals had been fighting off. Can
/you/ speak Spanish?)
+
In the Triumvir Wars (54 BC et seq), Octavian cut a Deal with
Seleucis the Nth -- who had "administered" the territory since the
death of Alexander -- against Marc Antony, who was supported by the
Ptolemy the Nth (the third descendant of Alexandrine "administration").
Yet in the time of "Christ," the Essenes ("The Relly-TrVly Jews")
were still gibbering about throwing out the /Greeks/, despite the
place's being under the "administration" of Augustus (Octavian) and
Pontius since the Famous Tragedy of Antony and Cleopatra.
+
After the little matter of Masada (70 AD), the "Noticeably Jews" were
sold off ("The Diaspora") to polish up the handles of various Roman
properties on the Other Side Of The Danube, notably Romany (the
resort property) and what's now "Czechoslovakia," whose
"administration" have varied rapidly and considerably.
+
About 110 AD, Seljuk "Turks" blew in from the Orient (the second of
five such wholesale invasions in historical times), took over Ionia
(Ilium, Anatolia, taken by the Greeks in 1200 BC by the same method
"The Jews" took Canaan) and "administered" what was left of the
Alexandrine Greeks, Romans, Assyrians (out-of-work camel-drivers
speaking a 2000-word trade argot called "Aramaic"), and undeported
"Jews" still in the area.
That lasted about a century, to be displaced by the secondary (and
larger) wave of Ottoman (relatives, in-laws) "Turks," who
"administered" the place from around 230 AD until (1919 AD) they
backed the Wrong Side (Serbia) in that 1914 Thing.
+
When the British ("winners") "administrators" discovered that that
particular sandpit didn't have any of that "Oil" stuff, they "gave"
it (back) to "the Jews," which was the single Most Magnificent way to
get "The Jews" the fuck out of England since Ivanhoe wanted to have
his Kate and Edith (~1300 AD).
__________
Frankly, My Dear,
I do not see a single "authorised administrator" of said land in
3200 years, save only --
1. "The Jews" themselves, or
2. whoever the fuck had it by the sword at the moment, including,
since 1949 AD (i.e., "at the moment"), "The Jews" themselves.
Can /you/ say, "Metzada lo tippol shenit"?
>
> (I just went back up & counted - there are at least 3 lies in that post of
> hers; did I miss any more?)
Susan (scj?), meet the chuckles and the Dockery (rap).
After one's lie-detector has scorched and his Alcatroll 4000 Irony
Meter has melted down, one no longer bothers to count.
Velcome to se Cas... ah, ruckus.
BYOB.
(No, "Bring Your Own Boobs"; ours are busy entertaining us.)
>
> Susan
Dennis M. Hammes
An old stinky yid, possibly Hasidim, was standing at the Wailing
Wall, shrouded, bobbing and intoning, "I want to go where my People
are. I want to go where my People are."
A tourist walked up and said, "What are you wailing about? You're
/in/ Palestine. Where are your People?"
Replied the stinky yid (possibily Hasidim), "Miami Beach."
Dennis M. Hammes
Hm. Your poem here seZ that that precisely /is/ the point, i.e., and
that they won't.
(The offer has been made variously over the years. It usually
results in a new wave of assaults from the surrounding
non-Palestinian Muslims, so even if Palestinians took that route,
they'd be offed by their friendly neighboring ex-buds.
(One may presume that they know it even better than I do.)
Dennis M. Hammes
"...back."
Oh.
Another four-letter word you Don't Like.
Okay, try a five-letter word.
"(The) Devil."
f.Gr. /diabolos/, "that which throws opposite.
In Latin, /adversus/, "that which speaks opposite," the Respondant.
In good old Modern American, "that which shoots back."
Hmm. Yas, My Dear, I see your Objection.
But, Dear, "The Jews" ("stinking yids") DO NOT like shooting people.
It's against their religion.
THAT AMMO IS FOR BUYING AND SELLING!!!
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:YXvij.1815$UX2.494@trnddc08...
>
>>
>> On 11-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
>>
>>> >>What is it, exactly, Dennis?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > It's obviously just something he doesn't like.
>>> > But don't pay any attention to naysayers:
>>> > you pursue your vision!!
>>> >
>>> > Susan
>>>
>>>
>>> Sailed off the edge of the Earth recently, Princess?
>>>
>>> (Of course you have. Any of the Faithful can. It's what makes them
>>> superior to the merely mundane.)
>>
>>
>> Thanks for confessing to being exactly what I thought.
>> (Big Hint to the innocent: bigots never hate just one innocent group)
>
>
> Yeah you do, cohen. You hate all goyim.
Actually, Princess is very careful /not/ to specify whom she hates,
allowing her to hate anybody at need.
(And thus shooting herself in the foot with her own "accusation,"
yee-haw.)
>
> Why do you find it necessary to lie, you stupid, dyslexic, thick Irish
> cunt?
>
"Irish"?
So the Problem isn't Religion at all, but Guinness?
Somebody that stupid can afford Guinness?
Oh.
Redheads fetch a pretty good price down to Dimashq, Iskandyar,
Riyadh, them Darkie Places.
Right.
>
>>
>> Susan
Dennis M. Hammes
Why would I have "meant" other than what I put, Princess?
'Samatter, monkey can't handle two-letter words?
>
>> Ah, yes. Moral stature.
>
>
> And that's you, again.
OOOooo... /"Sociology"/!!!
1. "Status is whatever The People Say you are."
(That's not science, that's cocksucking.)
1.a. "There can be No Doubt that The Law[wrrr] is whatever The
Pee-pole *want*." -- O.W. Holmes, /The Common Law/
(No, the White Stuff in the middle of a curl of chickenshit is
shit, too.)
>
> I have the feeling you are actually so stupid that you didn't
> realize that you made very vicious, sexist & just plain stupid
> remarks to me
>
As I'm what the English-speaking world has for a grandmaster poet at
the moment, just what would it be that I not realise about my own words?
Is the "knowledge" a like toedull /mystery/?
Oh.
Right.
It's a /*feeling*/!
Like wow...
>
> just because I happened to think someone else
> has a right to write poetry & *you* *don't*.
>
OOOooo... I doesn't has Princess' /Permissionses/, I doesn't!
Whatever shall I /do-o-o.../?
Right!
I'll gobble a raw fish and call myself a Catholic.
(That otta scare the bitch straight.)
>
> I made the gentlest
> of disagreements with you, & not even directly, & you flew off
> the handle in a spectacularly childish fashion - & then had the
> nerve to whine when I paid you back in kind.
Princess, you can't even pay your own heating bill.
(Thank God, "Him," for Global Warming.)
Pick your "kind": sword, pen, piano, test-tube, soldering-gun,
slide-rule...
Thought so.
>
> Grow up, get educated or at least get some manners - I dare
> not hope you will get a character - before you log on again.
Princess, read my sigblock.
Those seven words are a guardian angel (sic) and one of several
dissertations I've put in these pages alone (i.e., for shits and
grins and to prove that I can throw 'em away or let babies prove
they're housebroken by peeing on my papers).
That one remarks the fact that Princesses, squalling about the
RoolZ and Manners of Imaginary Tea-Parties, do not drive the sword,
pen, piano,* etc., out of circulation no matter how many zeros they
assert to add by counting them.
I'd suggest you learn to count outside the playpen save that it's
obvious you don't even count /inside/ it.
As for my "character," that's pretty much whatever you insist it be,
now, innit.
(I'm 'way too easy, but then, so are you...)
Natheless, if you insist on being a monkey in my civilisation,
why, I'll be a monkey's uncle.
(That's a guardian angel [sic] having only five words, which
remarks the fact that you /already/ aren't-fucking me. Cf.
"avuncular relationship" in "sociology," anthropology, psychology, law.)
Perhaps you hate the Old Testament because it remarks that I can give
you this lesson with a stick not thicker than my thumb (standard
inch, legal inch, commercial inch). (So do the laws of all fifty
States that copied it.)
*whap* "Can you hear me now?"
*whap* "Can you hear me now?"
*whap* "Can you hear me now?"
...in the courtyard of City Hall if I feel like it (that would be
a general ruling).
It's a stick a little bit shorter than my sword.
I do about 4000 one-armed pushups a day on it.
And if you are so full of Protestant baby-shit that you do not
survive the baptism (sic, i.e., "of Water and the Spirit"), then even
your Mommy will know what's meant by the guardian angel (sic) "Tough
shit."
(It has only two words, so that even a monkey can remember it, let
alone a Protestant who thinks it's Cute to be a monkey.)
__________
* You manage to remind me yet again that Daniel Barenboim -- "a
stinky yid" -- is doing a concert, conducting from the piano, in the
West Bank for the Benefit of the Palestinian Cause and Peace In Our Time.
/And/ dares to take Palestinian citizenship -- in addition to his
"stinky Israeli yid" citizenship -- to do it.
In what's routinely described as a "free-fire zone."
I freely admit he's not the swordsman I am, but then he plays
piano better.
For which he has my countenance.
And you don't.
Jerry Kraus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just out of curiosity, because I'm not exactly clear on this point:
do you think Jews should never have a state anywhere, under any
circumstances, or are you just opposed to the current state of Israel,
in its current location, for specific reasons?
I think if you are simply arguing that Israel is too violent,
militaristic and economically exploitive with its neighbours, you are
correct, and steps could be taken to address these problems: if you
are saying that Jews must never have a nation of their own, anywhere,
under any circumstances, then you ARE being antisemitic. In other
words, if taken to an extreme, anti-Zionism can be a kind of
antisemitism, although of a rather subtle type. Why should Jews be
singled out as the only ethnic group that has no right to their own
nation? All nations favor their own culture and traditions. Why
shouldn't Jews?
Jerry Kraus
I just translated the poem, Susan. I express no opinion as to its
contents. As far as I can tell, it is a poem about dreams. Possibly,
but only possibly, a couple of lines in the poem might have Zionist
implications. As dreams. But most of it has nothing to do with
Zionism or Israel, as far as I can tell. It is about emotions, and
yearning, in general. Not as specifically related to any particular
goal.
Israel was founded by Jews for political reasons. South Africa was
founded by whites for economic reasons. But both represent isolated,
prosperous minorities in a sea of poverty and hatred. Do you really
disagree with this? The solution in South Africa was compromise, with
the majority getting their rights back, but the minority retaining
what they really wanted: their prosperity. What do Jews really want
in Israel? To keep Israel a Jewish state. I know Jews don't usually
proselytize. Perhaps, in the case of Palestinians specifically, an
exception could be made. As I say, it's just a thought.
Jerry Kraus
>
> >>Jerry Kraus wrote:
>
> >>>Here's the original, if you're interested. My translation is fairly
> >>>literal. I've taken liberties, more with the rhythm and grammar than
> >>>with the meaning. I don't think poetry can really be "translated".
> >>>It can only be "interpreted".
>
> >>>http://benyehuda.org/bialik/bia005.html
>
> >>I am interested, but can't do anything with it since the destruction
> >>of 2/3 of my library by a religious fanatic.
> >>much as one uses the rhythms of the receiving language, which often
> >>differ from those of the parent.
> >> But one can not "take liberties" with the grammar and have the
> >>"meaning" remain intact. The piles of gerunds don't /do/ anything
> >>the original probably did, and only manage to assert that the
> >>original has the voice of a sullen fourth-grader.
> >> The sense /can/ be translated. What goes missing is the rhythms
> >>and voice of the original. A poet can rewrite the translation as an
> >>original poem in the receiving language, at which point Translators
> >>will howl that the result "isn't a translation." You takes your
> >>pick, because sound is the foundation of poetry, and sounds, esp.
> >>rhythms, differ radically among some languages.
>
> >>But "interpreting" the Holy Ghost only proves that the "Interpreter"
> >>has no idea what "the Holy Ghost" is. Leave that crap to the Holy
> >>Rollers.
> >> As the lady seD, "pursue your vision."
> >> But have a sense of what goes into leaving the map; maps are very
> >>rule-bound things.
>
> >>--
> >>-------(m+
> >> ~/:o)_|
> >>Gresham's Law is not worth a Continental.http://scrawlmark.org
>
> > probably could write better poetry if I wrote more slowly, but I
> > suppose I haven't the patience. Too many gerunds? Perhaps. English
> > isn't the easiest language to write poetry in. Too little phonetic
> > homogeneity to make rhymes easy to find. Spanish is much better.
> > Russian is better. I'm working on a Russian translation of this poem,
> > which I think will be somewhat better. I could show it to you when
> > I'm done, if you're interested.
>
> I would be forced to pretend, as I have no Russian to speak of.
> But /dozhvedanya/.
>
> As for English's being difficult to rhyme in, you're talking to the
> wrong d00d. I wish I could push a button and send you a copy of
> /RimeTyme/ (my electric rhyming dictionary), but WinDoze XP refuses
> to load WordStar's printer drivers, so I have to make a text copy by
> hand.
> But you don't really need it. That American has 36 vowels (Shaw
> claims 41 for British) is no problem if you use your ears.
>
> --
> -------(m+
> ~/:o)_|
> Gresham's Law is not worth a Continental.http://scrawlmark.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here are a couple of translations I made of a Pasternak poem --
another jewish-russian poet, by the way -- into Spanish and French. I
assume you can read one or both of those, Dennis. See if you like
them any better. The French and Spanish seemed to.
OB
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Here are a couple of translations I made of a Pasternak poem --
> another jewish-russian poet, by the way -- into Spanish and French. I
> assume you can read one or both of those, Dennis. See if you like
> them any better. The French and Spanish seemed to.
Both "translations" are barely above Babelfish standard, even assuming
that Babelfish peppered its output with bizarre spelling mistakes,.
You know, it helps if you actually /know/ the language you're
proposing to "translate into". Web-based services and CD-ROM
dictionaries only go so far. Still, the enthusiasm is commendable.
> http://groups.google.com/group/es.humanidades.literatura/browse_threa...
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/fr.lettres.ecriture/browse_thread/thre...- Hide quoted text -
Jerry Kraus
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Here are a couple of translations I made of a Pasternak poem --
> > another jewish-russian poet, by the way -- into Spanish and French. I
> > assume you can read one or both of those, Dennis. See if you like
> > them any better. The French and Spanish seemed to.
>
> Both "translations" are barely above Babelfish standard, even assuming
> that Babelfish peppered its output with bizarre spelling mistakes,.
> You know, it helps if you actually /know/ the language you're
> proposing to "translate into". Web-based services and CD-ROM
> dictionaries only go so far. Still, the enthusiasm is commendable.
>
>
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/es.humanidades.literatura/browse_threa...
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you really worth arguing with? Can you even read either
language? Do you think you know the languages better than people in
Spain or France?
I've had philology PH.D. students in Spain complement me on them, you
total moron!!!
Please, try to practice your insults on someone who is at your level
intellectually. Say, a sponge.
Jerry Kraus
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Here are a couple of translations I made of a Pasternak poem --
> > another jewish-russian poet, by the way -- into Spanish and French. I
> > assume you can read one or both of those, Dennis. See if you like
> > them any better. The French and Spanish seemed to.
>
> Both "translations" are barely above Babelfish standard, even assuming
> that Babelfish peppered its output with bizarre spelling mistakes,.
> You know, it helps if you actually /know/ the language you're
> proposing to "translate into". Web-based services and CD-ROM
> dictionaries only go so far. Still, the enthusiasm is commendable.
>
>
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/es.humanidades.literatura/browse_threa...
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Look moron, I'm sorry if the concept of someone who understands more
than you do threatens you, but please spare me the total nonsense.
It's boring.
Jerry Kraus
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Here are a couple of translations I made of a Pasternak poem --
> > another jewish-russian poet, by the way -- into Spanish and French. I
> > assume you can read one or both of those, Dennis. See if you like
> > them any better. The French and Spanish seemed to.
>
> Both "translations" are barely above Babelfish standard, even assuming
> that Babelfish peppered its output with bizarre spelling mistakes,.
> You know, it helps if you actually /know/ the language you're
> proposing to "translate into". Web-based services and CD-ROM
> dictionaries only go so far. Still, the enthusiasm is commendable.
>
>
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/es.humanidades.literatura/browse_threa...
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hola, Cretino. Que quereis? Una cabeza que funciona, tal vez? Un
cerebro? No creo que yo peudo ayudarte. Entiendes, loco?
Mon tres petit ami cretin. Foutes le campe. Allez au diable.
Laissez-moi en paix. Je ne m'interresse pas en les cretins que
n'aient rien a faire sauf qu'hurler les insultes ridicules. Comprenez-
vous?
JK
OB
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Here are a couple of translations I made of a Pasternak poem --
> > > another jewish-russian poet, by the way -- into Spanish and French. I
> > > assume you can read one or both of those, Dennis. See if you like
> > > them any better. The French and Spanish seemed to.
>
> > Both "translations" are barely above Babelfish standard, even assuming
> > that Babelfish peppered its output with bizarre spelling mistakes,.
> > You know, it helps if you actually /know/ the language you're
> > proposing to "translate into". Web-based services and CD-ROM
> > dictionaries only go so far. Still, the enthusiasm is commendable.
>
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/es.humanidades.literatura/browse_threa...
>
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Are you really worth arguing with? Can you even read either
> language? Do you think you know the languages better than people in
> Spain or France?
>
> I've had philology PH.D. students in Spain complement me on them, you
> total moron!!!
>
> Please, try to practice your insults on someone who is at your level
>
> - Show quoted text -
You seem upset. You know, it doesn't do to be so touchy on a group
like this one.
In answer to your questions:
1. You appear to think so.
2. Yes (both).
3. Since you ask, my Spanish is demonstrably better than that of most
of the population of Spain (where I myself lived for most of my adult
life, before migrating to Ecuador), at least when it comes to writing.
My French has admittedly rusted a little since I gained my 1st class
Honours in Modern Languages at Oxford back in '83,. However, I can
still see through the rust well enough to recognise egregious
solecisms and spelling gaffes when they are thrust at me. Would you
like me to go into details? I can, if you like, though there will be a
few hours' delay (off to work in a few minutes).
Jerry Kraus
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Are you really worth arguing with? Can you even read either
> > language? Do you think you know the languages better than people in
> > Spain or France?
>
> > I've had philology PH.D. students in Spain complement me on them, you
> > total moron!!!
>
> > Please, try to practice your insults on someone who is at your level
> > intellectually. Say, a sponge.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You seem upset. You know, it doesn't do to be so touchy on a group
> like this one.
>
> In answer to your questions:
>
> 1. You appear to think so.
> 2. Yes (both).
> 3. Since you ask, my Spanish is demonstrably better than that of most
> of the population of Spain (where I myself lived for most of my adult
> life, before migrating to Ecuador), at least when it comes to writing.
> My French has admittedly rusted a little since I gained my 1st class
> Honours in Modern Languages at Oxford back in '83,. However, I can
> still see through the rust well enough to recognise egregious
> solecisms and spelling gaffes when they are thrust at me. Would you
> like me to go into details? I can, if you like, though there will be a
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hableremos Espanol, amigo. Que opportuidad magnifica! Tu Inglese
es adecuado, pero no mucho bueno. Un poco rigido. Es muy dificil
apprender una idioma en escuela. La capacidad de hablar o escribir
una idioma con fluidez, o de escribir la litteratura en una idioma
especifica no deriva de ningunas detalles grammaticas, o aun de
hablando mucho en la idioma. Necessita alguna otra. Que otra? No se
exactamente. Es una habilidad que deriva del entendimiento de las
palabras y los giros de la idioma especifica. Y, tambien, de la vida
entera. Es de la poesia, aqui. Los solecismos y la ortografia no
importan mucho aqui.
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
> B'iny'amin C'r'amer wrote:
>
> >
> > <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:YXvij.1815$UX2.494@trnddc08...
> >
> >>
> >> On 11-Jan-2008, "Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> >>What is it, exactly, Dennis?
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > It's obviously just something he doesn't like.
> >>> > But don't pay any attention to naysayers:
> >>> > you pursue your vision!!
> >>> >
> >>> > Susan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sailed off the edge of the Earth recently, Princess?
> >>>
> >>> (Of course you have. Any of the Faithful can. It's what makes them
> >>> superior to the merely mundane.)
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks for confessing to being exactly what I thought.
> >> (Big Hint to the innocent: bigots never hate just one innocent group)
> >
> >
> > Yeah you do, cohen. You hate all goyim.
>
A double lie, as always.
>
> Actually, Princess is very careful /not/ to specify whom she hates,
> allowing her to hate anybody at need.
Actually, sexist pig, you are, as usual, 180 degrees wrong.
I am extremely careful to specify who I hate.
I hate bigots & liars.
& look who you have decided to ally yourself with.
> (And thus shooting herself in the foot with her own "accusation,"
> yee-haw.)
>
Joining the porjectionists club, I see.
> >
> > Why do you find it necessary to lie, you stupid, dyslexic, thick Irish
> > cunt?
> >
>
> "Irish"?
Yeah, let an ignoramus from Australia find out that
you're an irish American, and look what happens.
Then let that hatemongering liar get friends like you, &
also look what happens.
> So the Problem isn't Religion at all, but Guinness?
Thanks for continuing to prove me correct about you
bigots not hating just one innocent group.
> Somebody that stupid can afford Guinness?
Coming from someone who's proven himself to be
a stupid hatmongering liar, this is only barely amusing.
> Oh.
> Redheads fetch a pretty good price down to Dimashq, Iskandyar,
> Riyadh, them Darkie Places.
> Right.
And thanks *yet again* for continuing to prove me correct.