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Re: Lisa Scarborough's 'Art Lesson'
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Will Dockery
Jul 25, 2018, 2:33:47 PM7/25/18
to
On Sunday, July 19, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Andrew Roller wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Seventh Avenue
> by Lisa Scarboro
>
> Here we are again...
> apart.
> I don't know where you are.
> I can only wonder
> and the waiting is endless
> here on Seventh Avenue
> and every car sounds like yours
> and the cigarettes burn
> and the blue smoke drifts up and away
> and out of sight like you are.
> You've got Jack with you riding shotgun
> and you're on the road again just like old times
> and I'm sitting here with pen and paper
> writing this just to have something to do
> just like old times on Seventh Avenue..
> Who did you keep warm last night?
> It wasn't me is all I know.
> I heard they're predicting rain today,
> but I think rain came yesterday,
> red and barefooted under a hot Georgia sun.
> Wouldn't take very long to reach Alabama
> unless it moves north.
> Is it gloomy everywhere today,
> or just on Seventh Avenue?
> I'd walk away from everything if I could,
> but a million little cords of responsibility have
> me tied down here
> and so I light another cigarette
> and try to ignore the fact that the clocks are
> acting strangely.
> Is time standing still everywhere,
> or just on Seventh Avenue?
> And I have to forgive the ignorant cruelty of
> people driving past my house
> (because they don't know)
> how I'm sitting here listening for
> the sound of a motor stopping
> and a car door shutting
> and footsteps on the porch
> and a key turning in the lock
> and a voice saying "hey there",
> I'd give almost anything
> for all that to be true,
> but as yet it hasn't happened
> here on Seventh Avenue.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> -For more poems, type
> http://www.dejanews.com/
> into your browser's "Location" window. Press your "return" key.
> Click on "Power Search" in the middle of the screen. Next,
> Type in: roll...@earthlink.net in the box that appears.
> Click on "find" (the button to the right of the box).
> -Or search using: roll...@idt.net
>
> On Seventh Avenue is copyright 1998 by Lisa Scarborough
More archived poetry by Lisa...
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Seventh Avenue
> by Lisa Scarboro
>
> Here we are again...
> apart.
> I don't know where you are.
> I can only wonder
> and the waiting is endless
> here on Seventh Avenue
> and every car sounds like yours
> and the cigarettes burn
> and the blue smoke drifts up and away
> and out of sight like you are.
> You've got Jack with you riding shotgun
> and you're on the road again just like old times
> and I'm sitting here with pen and paper
> writing this just to have something to do
> just like old times on Seventh Avenue..
> Who did you keep warm last night?
> It wasn't me is all I know.
> I heard they're predicting rain today,
> but I think rain came yesterday,
> red and barefooted under a hot Georgia sun.
> Wouldn't take very long to reach Alabama
> unless it moves north.
> Is it gloomy everywhere today,
> or just on Seventh Avenue?
> I'd walk away from everything if I could,
> but a million little cords of responsibility have
> me tied down here
> and so I light another cigarette
> and try to ignore the fact that the clocks are
> acting strangely.
> Is time standing still everywhere,
> or just on Seventh Avenue?
> And I have to forgive the ignorant cruelty of
> people driving past my house
> (because they don't know)
> how I'm sitting here listening for
> the sound of a motor stopping
> and a car door shutting
> and footsteps on the porch
> and a key turning in the lock
> and a voice saying "hey there",
> I'd give almost anything
> for all that to be true,
> but as yet it hasn't happened
> here on Seventh Avenue.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> -For more poems, type
> http://www.dejanews.com/
> into your browser's "Location" window. Press your "return" key.
> Click on "Power Search" in the middle of the screen. Next,
> Type in: roll...@earthlink.net in the box that appears.
> Click on "find" (the button to the right of the box).
> -Or search using: roll...@idt.net
>
> On Seventh Avenue is copyright 1998 by Lisa Scarborough
More archived poetry by Lisa...
Will Dockery
Oct 29, 2018, 2:49:46 PM10/29/18
to
"George J. Dance" wrote in message
news:54483ac8-dfb8-43f3...@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 8:17:32 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 1:47:09 PM UTC-4, George J. Dance wrote:
> >
> > Yes, dear, I understand the general idea of the s/w: one inputs
> > "keywords" from a document, and the software searches for those words in
> > a searchable database. What I was hoping to find were the names of the
> > s/w and d/b, but no luck; the article mentions WCopyfind, but only in
> > connection with comparing 2 specific documents, which is all that s/w
> > seems to do. Later it mentions running a set of keywords through a
> > searchable database of 60,000 books, but not what s/w was used.
> >
> > Here's the article, so you can look for further info yourself. Notice
> > who's been caught "plagiarizing" (though, as the article makes clear, no
> > one is calling him a plagiarist):
> >
> > https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/feb/09/shakespeare-plagiarism-software-george-north
>
> The utterly unbiased Peter J. Ross has stated ore than once that NG's
> research on poetry in this manner is bunk:
I certainly wouldn't call PJ "unbiased" here. Rather, I'd say that his
judgement can be trusted here precisely because his obvious biases would
push him the other way, to call anyone friendly with you or me a plagiarist.
As for the software, it certainly can't be used to prove plagiarism by
itself. A professor using it to check a student's essay against a database
of essays, for example, might find a match; but all that is is a match. He'd
still have to read, and compare, the 2 texts to see if one was plagiarized
from the other.
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/ITuVmRr-Vvo/Vz9XCoGzAQAJ
>
> =================[Begin Quoted Text]========================
>
> False accusation of plagiarism
>
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 18 Jun 2018 12:54:15 -0700 (PDT),
> NancyGene wrote:
>
> > Pickering plagiarized Marge Piercy and Jacob Glatstein for his
> > “original” poem. We cut most of the garbage Stephan Pickering
> > wrote, which was undoubtedly stolen from other sources. Below are
> > the most egregious examples of passages that Stephan Pickering has
> > stolen for his “original” poem.
> >
> > The following section is totally Glatstein’s poem, not just the
> > words in quotes:
> >
> > [IV.
> > [Like a tiny candle over each grave,
> > [a cry will burn,
> > [each one for itself.
> > ['I am I' --
> > [thousands of slaughtered I's
> > [will cry in the night:
> > ['I am dead, unrecognized,
> > [my blood still unredeemed'.
> >
> > [-- Ya'akov Glatshteyn / Yankev Glatshteyn / Jacob Glatstein, 1987.
> > 'I have never been here before', p. 111 in: Ya'akov Glatshteyn,
> > 1987. Selected poems of Yankev Glatshteyn [ed./trans. R.J. Fein]
> > (Jewish Publication Society), 1-215 [Yiddish & English]
>
> Quoting text and attributing it to the original author isn't
> plagiarism. Duh!
>
> > _______
> >
> > The below section is stolen from “Growing up Haunted” in “The Art of
> > Blessing the Day: Poems with a Jewish Theme” by Marge Piercy. We
> > have numbered the corresponding lines in each “poem”.
> >
> > Pickering’s plagiarized version:
> >
> > the underside of every leaf
> > is fear (1), shadows (2) gathering (3)
> > at the foot of our beds (4),
> > transforming gristle into haze (5),
> > made real by Hebrew letters
> > and syllables. (6)
> > _________
> >
> > Marge Piercy’s original lines:
> >
> > FEAR WAS THE UNDERSIDE OF EVERY LEAF (1)
> > we turned, the knowledge that our
> > cousins, our other selves, had been
> > starved and butchered to ghosts.
> > The question every smoggy morning
> > presented like a covered dish:
> > why are you living and all those
> > mirror selves, sisters, gone
> > into smoke like stolen cigarettes?
> >
> > I remember my grandmother’s cry
> > When she learned the death of all she
> > Remembered, girls she bathed with,
> > Young men with whom she shyly
> > Flirted, wooden shul where
> > Her father rocked and prayed,
> > Red haired aunt plucking the
> > Balalaika, world of sun and snow
> > Turned to shadows on a yellow page. (2)
> >
> > Assume no future you may not have
> > to fight for, to die for, muttered
> > GHOSTS GATHERED ON THE FOOT (3)
> > OF MY BED (4) EACH NIGHT. What you
> > carry in your blood is us,
> > the books we did not write,
> > music we could not make, a world
> > GONE FROM GRISTLE TO SMOKE (5), ONLY
> > AS REAL NOW AS WORDS CAN MAKE IT. (6)
>
> Given how many millions of "poems" are available on the Web, I'm
> amazed that you couldn't find one that resembled the [Pickerng] "poem"
> more closely. The resemblance is so faint as to be probably
> accidental.
>
> If you've got no better evidence than you've provided so far to
> support your accusations of plagiarism, you'd better shut up and
> apologise to [Pickering]. Otherwise he'll have good grounds to sue
> you for defamation.
>
> --
> PJR :-)
>
> τὸν οἰόμενον νόον ἔχειν ὁ νουθετέων ματαιοπονεῖ.
> - Democritus
>
> ==========[End Quoted Text]===================================
>
> And so that goes...
Good one, from the archives...
news:54483ac8-dfb8-43f3...@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 8:17:32 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 1:47:09 PM UTC-4, George J. Dance wrote:
> >
> > Yes, dear, I understand the general idea of the s/w: one inputs
> > "keywords" from a document, and the software searches for those words in
> > a searchable database. What I was hoping to find were the names of the
> > s/w and d/b, but no luck; the article mentions WCopyfind, but only in
> > connection with comparing 2 specific documents, which is all that s/w
> > seems to do. Later it mentions running a set of keywords through a
> > searchable database of 60,000 books, but not what s/w was used.
> >
> > Here's the article, so you can look for further info yourself. Notice
> > who's been caught "plagiarizing" (though, as the article makes clear, no
> > one is calling him a plagiarist):
> >
> > https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/feb/09/shakespeare-plagiarism-software-george-north
>
> The utterly unbiased Peter J. Ross has stated ore than once that NG's
> research on poetry in this manner is bunk:
I certainly wouldn't call PJ "unbiased" here. Rather, I'd say that his
judgement can be trusted here precisely because his obvious biases would
push him the other way, to call anyone friendly with you or me a plagiarist.
As for the software, it certainly can't be used to prove plagiarism by
itself. A professor using it to check a student's essay against a database
of essays, for example, might find a match; but all that is is a match. He'd
still have to read, and compare, the 2 texts to see if one was plagiarized
from the other.
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/ITuVmRr-Vvo/Vz9XCoGzAQAJ
>
> =================[Begin Quoted Text]========================
>
> False accusation of plagiarism
>
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 18 Jun 2018 12:54:15 -0700 (PDT),
> NancyGene wrote:
>
> > Pickering plagiarized Marge Piercy and Jacob Glatstein for his
> > “original” poem. We cut most of the garbage Stephan Pickering
> > wrote, which was undoubtedly stolen from other sources. Below are
> > the most egregious examples of passages that Stephan Pickering has
> > stolen for his “original” poem.
> >
> > The following section is totally Glatstein’s poem, not just the
> > words in quotes:
> >
> > [IV.
> > [Like a tiny candle over each grave,
> > [a cry will burn,
> > [each one for itself.
> > ['I am I' --
> > [thousands of slaughtered I's
> > [will cry in the night:
> > ['I am dead, unrecognized,
> > [my blood still unredeemed'.
> >
> > [-- Ya'akov Glatshteyn / Yankev Glatshteyn / Jacob Glatstein, 1987.
> > 'I have never been here before', p. 111 in: Ya'akov Glatshteyn,
> > 1987. Selected poems of Yankev Glatshteyn [ed./trans. R.J. Fein]
> > (Jewish Publication Society), 1-215 [Yiddish & English]
>
> Quoting text and attributing it to the original author isn't
> plagiarism. Duh!
>
> > _______
> >
> > The below section is stolen from “Growing up Haunted” in “The Art of
> > Blessing the Day: Poems with a Jewish Theme” by Marge Piercy. We
> > have numbered the corresponding lines in each “poem”.
> >
> > Pickering’s plagiarized version:
> >
> > the underside of every leaf
> > is fear (1), shadows (2) gathering (3)
> > at the foot of our beds (4),
> > transforming gristle into haze (5),
> > made real by Hebrew letters
> > and syllables. (6)
> > _________
> >
> > Marge Piercy’s original lines:
> >
> > FEAR WAS THE UNDERSIDE OF EVERY LEAF (1)
> > we turned, the knowledge that our
> > cousins, our other selves, had been
> > starved and butchered to ghosts.
> > The question every smoggy morning
> > presented like a covered dish:
> > why are you living and all those
> > mirror selves, sisters, gone
> > into smoke like stolen cigarettes?
> >
> > I remember my grandmother’s cry
> > When she learned the death of all she
> > Remembered, girls she bathed with,
> > Young men with whom she shyly
> > Flirted, wooden shul where
> > Her father rocked and prayed,
> > Red haired aunt plucking the
> > Balalaika, world of sun and snow
> > Turned to shadows on a yellow page. (2)
> >
> > Assume no future you may not have
> > to fight for, to die for, muttered
> > GHOSTS GATHERED ON THE FOOT (3)
> > OF MY BED (4) EACH NIGHT. What you
> > carry in your blood is us,
> > the books we did not write,
> > music we could not make, a world
> > GONE FROM GRISTLE TO SMOKE (5), ONLY
> > AS REAL NOW AS WORDS CAN MAKE IT. (6)
>
> Given how many millions of "poems" are available on the Web, I'm
> amazed that you couldn't find one that resembled the [Pickerng] "poem"
> more closely. The resemblance is so faint as to be probably
> accidental.
>
> If you've got no better evidence than you've provided so far to
> support your accusations of plagiarism, you'd better shut up and
> apologise to [Pickering]. Otherwise he'll have good grounds to sue
> you for defamation.
>
> --
> PJR :-)
>
> τὸν οἰόμενον νόον ἔχειν ὁ νουθετέων ματαιοπονεῖ.
> - Democritus
>
> ==========[End Quoted Text]===================================
>
> And so that goes...
Good one, from the archives...
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