"Are Haiku poems?"
Will Dockery
>
> Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
America:
http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
"...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
yet make you see the real thing.' Just as he changed the standards of
prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
George Dance
> Karla said:
>
>
>
> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.' Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
Yes, certainly haiku (or any tercets) can be poems. A poem can have as
little as one line.
> I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
>
Or as "Haiku", FTM. That has been a problem I've had in explaining why
I didn't consider them poems: I found two of them, but lost them
again, and never did find the third, so I can't even point to them.
But it's not why I don't consider them poems.
Hmmm... Maybe I should write something in general terms about that -
then if I do find the haiku, I can refer to it -- and even if I don't,
it's more likely to be read than something buried down here, anyway.
Will Dockery
I don't remember any of these haikus, either, which was why I reposted
her list with the intention of linking to the poems I did remember &
recognize, along with my in-depth commentaries of some of them, and
asked her to post links to the others, or all of the poems.
Bohgosity BumaskiL
I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
important for me than grammar.
This is not a hai-
ku, because it fails to in-
dicate a season.
_______
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/ Orchard_Farmer is a haiku.
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
OF YA!
Will Dockery
wrote:
> THERE YOU HAVE IT, FOLKS. A GAY BLADE USENET CLUSTER FUCK, RIGHT IN FRONT
> OF YA!
We can tell by your shrill screaming in all caps, you old drama queen.
--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Leisha
Cups of pinot noir.
Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
September harvest.
Leisha
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
news:478106aa-3ec0-48bf...@a30g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 24, 8:50 am, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" <colbu...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> THERE YOU HAVE IT, FOLKS. A GAY BLADE USENET CLUSTER FUCK, RIGHT IN FRONT
> OF YA!
We can tell by your shrill screaming in all caps, you old drama queen.
Sorry, I wasn't screaming. I just got excited there fer a minute.
Will Dockery
>"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> Haiku are the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > important for me than grammar.
>
> > This is not a hai-
> > ku, because it fails to in-
> > dicate a season.
>
> Cups of pinot noir.
> Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> September harvest.
>
> Leisha
Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
On the subject of Haiku, and Karla's sveral from earlier this year, I
went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
writing Haiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
forgotten:
http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
Sandy makes me think of a haiku, though unfinished.
Bluebird
on white snow
shivers her timbers.
-Will Dockery
and
http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
Iron Butterfly
comes to mind
1970s breeze.
-Will Dockery
Meanwhile, The Search continues...
--
T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
* Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
* Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
* Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mind/162320477117852?ref=mf
Will Dockery
Shoreline... by Lakeya Slap Gardner
http://www.facebook.com/?sk=2347471856#!/note.php?note_id=447984343336
Two Haiku by BeaN
http://www.intowncolumbus.com/forum/topics/another-haiku
and
http://www.intowncolumbus.com/forum/topics/columbus-haiku
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
--
alt.arts.poetry.comments Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=105463832836304&ref=ts
George Dance
> Leisha <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> >"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> > > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > > important for me than grammar.
>
> > > This is not a hai-
> > > ku, because it fails to in-
> > > dicate a season.
> > > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmerisahaiku.
>
> > Cups of pinot noir.
> > Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> > September harvest.
>
> > Leisha
>
> Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
>
> went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> forgotten:
>
> http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
>
> Sandy makes me think of ahaiku, though unfinished.
>
> Bluebird
> on white snow
> shivers her timbers.
>
> -Will Dockery
>
> and
>
> http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
>
> Iron Butterfly
> comes to mind
> 1970s breeze.
>
> -Will Dockery
>
> Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list. So far I've
found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
about it as well.
> --
> T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...
Will Dockery
I wonder what was up with that?
So far I've
> found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
> poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
> about it as well.
Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
interesting.
> --
> > T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> > * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> > effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> > * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> > mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> > * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas:
http://www.online-literature.com/dumas/cristo/
--
--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html
George Dance
I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
> So far I've
> > found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
> > poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
> > about it as well.
>
> Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> interesting.
>
I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on
my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
(while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
fight.
Will Dockery
Hmmm... haven't thought of Houstman in a while. Wonder if he's still
holding court in the Beatles newsgroup, which I also haven't made it
back to in some weeks, now.
Think I'll go have a gander... heh.
> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> > So far I've
> > > found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
> > > poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
> > > about it as well.
>
> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > interesting.
>
> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began.
Excellent, I may get back to that one, as well, as I wanted to link to
my comments & critiques some of those poems from those titles, as
well.
Time permitting... *hello Matt*!
I'd like to work on
> my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
> between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
> It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
> claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
> period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
> ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
> (while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
> fight.
And in the end, everyone wins, since we'll have easy access to all
that wonderful Karla Rogers poetry... old and new!
--
"I know that my true friend will appear after my death, and my
sweetheart died before I was born." -Tanaka Katsumi (via Harlan
Ellison)
"House of Ghosts" / T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the Mind)
http://www.myspace.com/music/t-o-t-m-6002603/songs/house-of-ghosts-37942333
Barbara's Cat
> Goober Dockery said:
>
> > Goober Dance said:
> >
> > > Goober Dockery said:
> > >
> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > > > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > > > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > > > writingHaiku
> > > >
You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
--
Cm~
"Revenge... is like a rolling stone,
which, when a man hath forced up
a hill, will return upon him with
a greater violence, and break those
bones whose sinews gave it motion."
- Albert Schweitzer
Will Dockery
>George Dance wrote:
>>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > > > On the subject of Haiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
You sound paranoid, Barbie.
> "Revenge... is like a rolling stone,
> which, when a man hath forced up
> a hill, will return upon him with
> a greater violence, and break those
> bones whose sinews gave it motion."
> - Albert Schweitzer
Nice quote... and you seem even more paranoid after posting that,
Barbie.
Meat Plow
I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Agreed to have a battle;
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
As black as a tar-barrel;
Which frightened both the heroes so,
They quite forgot their quarrel
author unknown to me.
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
Will Dockery
Since you never seem to manage to do anything "useful" yourself, MP,
that doesn't seem so likely, y'know?
> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> Agreed to have a battle;
> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> As black as a tar-barrel;
> Which frightened both the heroes so,
> They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> author unknown to me.
Bob Dylan, actually:
http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/tweedle-dee-tweedle-dum
Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re throwing knives into the tree
Two big bags of dead man’s bones
Got their noses to the grindstones
Living in the Land of Nod
Trustin’ their fate to the Hands of God
They pass by so silently
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
Well, they’re going to the country, they’re gonna retire
They’re taking a street car named Desire
Looking in the window at the pecan pie
Lot of things they’d like they would never buy
Neither one gonna turn and run
They’re making a voyage to the sun
“His Master’s voice is calling me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee
Tweedle-dee Dee and Tweedle-dee Dum
All that and more and then some
They walk among the stately trees
They know the secrets of the breeze
Tweedle-dee Dum said to Tweedle-dee Dee
“Your presence is obnoxious to me”
They’re like babies sittin’ on a woman’s knee
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
Well, the rain beating down on my window pane
I got love for you and it’s all in vain
Brains in the pot, they’re beginning to boil
They’re dripping with garlic and olive oil
Tweedle-dee Dee—he’s on his hands and his knees
Saying, “Throw me somethin’, Mister, please”
“What’s good for you is good for me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee
Well, they’re living in a happy harmony
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re one day older and a dollar short
They’ve got a parade permit and a police escort
They’re lying low and they’re makin’ hay
They seem determined to go all the way
They run a brick-and-tile company
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
Well a childish dream is a deathless need
And a noble truth is a sacred dream
My pretty baby, she’s lookin’ around
She’s wearin’ a multi-thousand dollar gown
Tweedle-dee Dee is a lowdown, sorry old man
Tweedle-dee Dum, he’ll stab you where you stand
“I’ve had too much of your company,”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee
-Bob Dylan
Copyright © 2001 by Special Rider Music
> --
> Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
--
Egatoid!
The track that set the whole Shadowville All-Stars thing in motion,
"Mirror Twins" by Will Dockery (words) & Brian Fowler (music):
http://www.myspace.com/music/will-dockery-shadowville-all-stars-2953674/songs/mirror-twins-27425017
Barbara's Cat
My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help."
Next, "Get a life."
> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> Agreed to have a battle;
> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> As black as a tar-barrel;
> Which frightened both the heroes so,
> They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> author unknown to me.
Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the ages.
I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.
--
Cm~
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
- Mark Twain
mat1t3
look at this:
the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
aapc is in full swing again!
: )
George Dance
> On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <c...@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > Barbara's Cat pissed: :
Shit & piss!
> the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
as told by Mistter Squittypants . . .
>
> aapc is in full swing again!
>
I notice this has been copied out to a lot of other groups, the
readers of which will have no clue what any of the above is about. So
here is some context; some background on the 'list', and an updae on
my search results. '
----- <forward> ----------------------------
From: George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Subject: Re: Karla Rogers poetry list (2009-2010)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID:
<27f8daf7-018f-4da6...@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
On Sep 20, 5:08 pm, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Karla wrote:
[snip]
> Nice list, Karla...
Yes, it's a very nice list. However, since Karla has insisted that
she
posted it in the interests of "accuracy" and being truthful, we
should note that it is not an accurate list, and she is not being
truthful in posting it as if it were one.
For one thing, whatever reason, she has left at least seven of her
reposted poems off her list of "Reposts."
For another, considering that her list is meant to "refute" the
following statement of mine posted to AAPC --
"While Karla posted quite a bit of poetry here in the past year-and-
a-
half, not that much of it was new. Most of it was revised or simply
recycled from her 20th century ouevre."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/be7b2621b...
-- let's note that she's padded her "New poems" list by including
three poems that were never posted here at all.
Correcting those inaccuracies of hers gives 11 "New poems" and 14
"Reposts", as follows:
New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:
03/02/09 (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
06/13/09 On Mariana in the Glass
10/03/09 In the Clouds
11/23/09 Sonnet
01/09/10 Grail
01/30/10 Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
01/31/10 Haiku (ping--)
01/31/10 Raisin Ether
02/15/10 Blue Quintet
02/26/10 Obpoem (Moon Moan)
03/14/10 Haiku (winter sun)
Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:
02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC
As you can see, "most" of what Karla posted in that period was simply
revised or recycled, just as I claimed (though I should add, in the
interests of
"accuracy": not just from her 20th century work, as I incorrectly
stated earlier).
</fwd>
> : )
Will Dockery
>
> I stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.
No, stupid, Dylan did write the verses I quoted:
http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/tweedle-dee-tweedle-dum
-Bob Dylan
> "Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
> - Mark Twain
True that & what he said.
Meat Plow
Unfortunately those suggestions have a long history of falling upon deaf
ears :(
>
>> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
>> Agreed to have a battle;
>> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
>> Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
>> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
>> As black as a tar-barrel;
>> Which frightened both the heroes so,
>> They quite forgot their quarrel
>>
>> author unknown to me.
>
>
> Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the
> ages. I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan
> wrote it.
Really? Surely you jest :) Trying not to read 99.9% of his dreck I missed
that one.
Meat Plow
Did you miss us :) I really got tired of those two lower life forms and
their banal banter hence the ebbing of my aap, aapc contributions. I
would likely find intellectual 'sparring' with a chimpanzee who could
sign language exponentially more rewarding than the narrow, thoughtless
responses from Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle Dumb.
Will Dockery
>mat1t3 wrote:
<snip for brevity>
> > look at this:
>
> > the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> > aapc is in full swing again!
>
> > : )
>
> Did you miss us :)
Looks like you sure missed /us/, Meat... heh.
> Nope, George wrote: "And while I did find your three "haiku," you know I don't
>
> consider that sort off tossing-of to be poetry (regardless of source)."
Will Dockery
<slap>
Ah... really? You seem to hang on (& sniff behind) to every word,
actually, M.P.
Come back and respond... you know you read this... heh.
--
Will Dockery
>
> I notice this has been copied out to a lot of other groups, the
> readers of which will have no clue what any of the above is about. So
> here is some context; some background on the 'list', and an updae on
> my search results. '
>
> ----- <forward> ----------------------------
> From: George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca>
> Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
> Subject: Re: Karla Rogers poetry list (2009-2010)
> Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
> Message-ID:
Interesting.
mat1t3
my goodness, george! you seem as though you're
upset about something. i was trying to compliment
you on your dancing skills. is it really so hard to
accept a compliment? i know you get beat up
around here a lot. and, i know that must hurt.
but, you know that your dunce dance is quite
exceptional, don't you? and, when you're partnered
up with the duck man, things really swing around here.
by all means: keep swingin'
: )
>
> > the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> as told by Mistter Squittypants . . .
mister squittypants loves the duck dunce dance!
please continue, gentlemen.
>
>
>
> > aapc is in full swing again!
>
> I notice this <snip mindless drivel>
George Dance
I thought so, and it looked like a lot of people wouldn't get to even
see it; almost as soon as it was posted into this thread, the nonsense
being posted down in this part of it began, burying the facts about
Karla's allegation under a heap of trash posts.
But I intend to keep reminding the thread's readers of them, and (with
help from readers like you), a few will actually get to learn about
them.
George Dance
> On Oct 2, 9:43 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Oct 2, 11:30 pm, mat1t3 <amirrorcan...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Meat Plow pissed:
> > > > > Barbara's Cat pissed: :
>
>
>
> > Shit & piss!
>
> my goodness, george! you seem as though you're
> upset about something. i was trying to compliment
> you on your dancing skills. is it really so hard to
> accept a compliment? i know you get beat up
> around here a lot. and, i know that must hurt.
> but, you know that your dunce dance is quite
> exceptional, don't you? and, when you're partnered
> up with the duck man, things really swing around here.
>
> by all means: keep swingin'
>
> : )
Speaking of misunderstanding what someone else has posted (and we
were, last week); in this case I was only rhyming your lines, to bring
out verse implicit in your writing.
Here, I thought of another line in the interim, which should make it
clearer as it finishes the first stanza. (But I'll write that in at
the end of the post, where it'll be more effective.)
>
> > > the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> > as told by Mistter Squittypants . . .
>
> mister squittypants loves the duck dunce dance!
>
> please continue, gentlemen.
>
AAPC
Look at this:
Shit and piss!
For some it is eternal bliss;
The meat cat prance
And the duck dunce dance
As told by Mr. Squittypants.
- Matt E. and George Dance
Will Dockery
> On Oct 3, 11:56 am, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Oct 3, 12:43 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
<snip for focus>
Links & commments (new & old), this could be interesting & educational
for fans & new readers of the poetry of Karla Rogers, as well as for
Karla herself, since one of the main reasons for writing poetry is to
find & entertain an audience.
While I have a bit of time, I'll see if I can begin expanding one of
the poems listed... "Trick Of Light" is one that I (& others) went
into great detail exploring, so that's probably a good place to
start...
--
Egatoid!
The track that set the whole Shadowville All-Stars thing in motion,
"Mirror Twins" by Will Dockery (words) & Brian Fowler (music).
http://www.myspace.com/music/will-dockery-shadowville-all-stars-2953674/songs/mirror-twins-27425017
Will Dockery
>
> The place is full of talentless mental cases
Well, you *are* here, after all, ggasfly... nice self-description,
weirdo.
Will Dockery
>
> talentless mental case
Don't be so hard on yourself, ggamble, while your two most well-known
poems, "Fred The Dog" & "Regrets of the Nam", may not show very much
talent, they are at least endlessly entertaining, which, after all, if
the main purpose of poetry:
"...For now, I am gone across a lonely, regretful brine,
To seek undaunted peacefulness for my troubled mind.
How despicable is a child man, to enhance wrath upon his quaker,
Knowing how frivolous he is upon his own chosen acre..." -Gary Gamble
A comedy classic!
"Bohgosity BumaskiL" <brewh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> Haiku are the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> important for me than grammar.
>
> This is not a hai-
> ku, because it fails to in-
> dicate a season.
> _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmer is a haiku.
--
Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
> You consider haiku
> poetry when it's your haiku.
Again, has Haiku actually been declared "not poetry" here, Karla?
If so, most of us know that's not ture:
> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.' Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
--
Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
> You consider haiku
> poetry when it's your haiku.
Again, has Haiku actually been declared "not poetry" here, Karla?
If so, most of us know that's not true:
George Dance
> Karla said:
>
> <snip for focus>
>
> > You consider haiku
> > poetry when it's your haiku.
>
> Again, has Haiku actually been declared "not poetry" here, Karla?
>
I'm pretty sure Karla knows it hasn't. She's just misrepresenting
another comment of mine, in order to pretend something that's not
true.
> If so, most of us know that's not true:
>
It's also not true, of course, that I 'disqualified' her "haiku." I
explained why I didn't count them originally; but when Karla insisted
they were poems because she was "pleased with the results" (presumably
including any typos), I din't challenge any of them. Of course I don't
insist that anyone simply take my word for that: Here's proof, the
lists I posted Oct. 2:
<quote>
>
Will Dockery
"Barbara's Cat" says:
>Will Dockery said:
>> Karla says:
>>
>> <snip for focus>
>>
>> http://omgili.com/newsgroups/alt/surrealism/7c20156e-3646-4898-80e6-d9c1482e6891b16g2000yqbgooglegroupscom.html
>>
>> > Mercury Mates With Clocks
>> >
>> > Kissed into gold,
>> > the first mercury of love
>> > becomes a cylinder, a calendar, a compass
>> > where a confusion of fingers
>> > ties up the Christmas of veins
>> > and - in dead union -
>> > the soles of laughing soldiers
>> > smoke the decaying mirrors.
>> >
>> > Our lofty podiums,
>> > wrinkled ovaries of jewels
>> > in a featherless sky that cuts
>> > flowers from each nodding head,
>> > my human daffodils,
>> > my gangrened begonias,
>> > on whom water wonders
>> > its haul of salvaged emeralds,
>> > time dog-carted away by the scaffold's spiders.
>> >
>> > And our money
>> > priceless as ice in place of steel,
>> > scarred with empire,
>> > (but not as real)
>> > and all good intentions shivering
>> > like old cheeks in the new wind.
>> > There is no art, no grace, no fiction
>> > still secreted behind that purchase of fog.
>> > We are imposed upon by the grass.
>> > We are an ephemera of cares.
>> >
>> > dmh
>>
>> Okay, we settled years ago that it is okay to create poetry in this
>> way, and I let it go... my point is that since George Dance adapted
>> "Betty" from a PJR poem in the same way Dale adapted an Alacrity Stone
>> poem, charges of "theft" & "plagiarism" against him by PJR, Cythera
>> and others (I don't think you fell for it, though, Karla) are false,
>> and in fact hypocritical.
>>
>> Agreed?
>
>
> No one in their right mind <snip>
Counts you out from the start, eh, Barbie?
--
The ruins of Ma Rainey's Dream Theatre:
http://www.intowncolumbus.com/photo/crawford-terrace-apartments
Will Dockery
>Cythera wrote:
>
> > Make your case, Thief. Whose name did I snip?
>
> rain shadow's, Thief. You did the same thing to her I did to you, with
> one difference: I offered to give you credit, while you gave her only
> the middle finger.
I had forgotten about Rain Shadow's poem being the original, that
Cythera and the rest began riffing on. I haven't checked yet, and
don't "remember", but I doubt Cythera gave Robert Morpheal credit for
all those poems of his that she "edited", either.
Unike me, Cythera has never seemed so interested in credit being given
where it is due.
--
Will Dockery, Folk Rock / Blues / Experimental:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
>
> It's a form of criticism which means that the effort posted is so artless
> and lacking that it's not a poem. Or course the author intended it as a
> poem, and yes, it's a poem, but it's a very, very, very bad poem.
Which is what George Dance meant when he compiled the list of your
"poems" but left out the (in his opinion) very bad "haiku", in case
you didn't get it, Karla.
--
Poetry & music by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
Discussion of the "adaptation" of She Sleeps Tight:
> >http://www.freak-search.com/en/thread/1386134/she_sleeps_tightpastiche/3
The original work by Will Dockery (With The Shadowville All-Stars):
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v9uGY157cpiU
>
> >Anyway, it seems we need to have a uniform standard of judgement as to
> >when we can justifiably pronounce someone a "plagiarist" & "thief",
> >right?
>
> The dullards standard?
Are you calling Cythera a "dullard", then, Karla, since she is the one
tossing the accusations of "plagiarist" & "thief" around here, not me.
Or are you confused about who "said" what, again?
>Why not rely on what's written by courts and scholars on this subject?
That's good enough for me, except that when my poetry is used,
adapted, et cetera, I want a credit line for the use of it, and
copyright law does state that I, as creator of the work, retain all
rights as to the use of my property.
You do "get" that, right, Karla?
George Dance
> Karla wrote:
>
> > It's a form of criticism which means that the effort posted is so artless
> > and lacking that it's not a poem. Or course the author intended it as a
> > poem, and yes, it's a poem, but it's a very, very, very bad poem.
>
> Which is what George Dance meant when he compiled the list of your
> "poems" but left out the (in his opinion) very bad "haiku", in case
> you didn't get it, Karla.
It is why I left them out in August, yes; but it wasn't a quality
judgement that they were bad: it was a judgement, based on both
internal evidence (like the typo in ~two cats on on a box~) and
external evidence (the time between replies, the fact she never
produced a further draft) that she simply tossed them off in one go:
that they were drafts, not poems in any way. The one exception, of the
ones she posted to aapc, being her "winter sun"-- that one is most
definitely a poem, though of course not a haiku:
http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/192f1a4d85a57b4f?hl=en
Will Dockery
>
> 1. Is Dance plagiarizing Cythera?
> 2. Is Houstman plagiarizing Stone?
> 3. Is Dance plagiarizing PJR?
All seem to me to be various forms of "Borrowed Keyword Poetry", as
I've stated many times before.
Another example is closer to me, since it was my poetry that was used,
and in fact used word-for-word. Now that I've answered your questions,
will you for once answer mine? Here's my original poem, and the
"adaptation", by Adam Lynn:
http://www.freak-search.com/en/thread/1386134/she_sleeps_tightpastiche/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v9uGY157cpiU
She Sleeps Tight
Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater spine.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.
Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.
Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.
Won't be long,
until I see her face.
She's waiting
in an undisclosed place.
I've been conspired
banned from my muse.
This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.
This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.
In Salem town
she keeps her chin so high.
Darkened breeze
she smiles as I roll by.
Step inside
she looks for tables left.
Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.
Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.
Like a Steamboat
she plans to roll on down.
To the Gulf
out of this dirty town.
Copper mesh
kept stuffed in a jar.
Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.
Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.
We know him
eye deed by his ship.
In a trap
a kind of goosechase trip.
Whiskey fumes
and stale gunsmoke.
Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.
Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.
Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater spine.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.
-Will Dockery (words)
"adamlynn" <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
Darkened Salem town leather breeze.
Whiskey scattered shoes in the snow.
Poor boy's stale dirty gun-smoke jokes
wink at time. She keeps her steamboat
drowned copper fumes and knives
stuffed in a jar. Nothing lasts.
Your self turning from wine to water.
Conspired smiles with all her nowhere
coins and goose-chase cold dice.
----
So, as far as the three questions above you asked, those are really
not my problem... maintaining control of and proper credit for my work
is, Karla.
Sorry I confused you so, btw.
Will Dockery
>
> You can keep making up ridiculous "rhyming somethings," as Karla calls
> them (when you write them; when she writes them, of course, one has to
> call them "poems." 8)
Karla always seem to want it both ways. She can bellow "Not a poem!",
yet gets her feelings hurt when the same judgement is applied to her
"poetry".
--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D9uGY157cpiU
Leisha
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 00:55:23 -0400, Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > Goober Dance said:
>
> >> Goober Dockery said:
>
> >> > Goober Dance said:
>
> >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>
> >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>
> >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>
> >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> >> > interesting.
>
> >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> Agreed to have a battle;
> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> As black as a tar-barrel;
> Which frightened both the heroes so,
> They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> author unknown to me.
>
> Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
You must be joking; you know it's Lewis Carroll, of course:
http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap04.htm
This page has my favorite of his, "You Are Old, Father William."
http://www.sabian.org/alicech5.htm
Leisha
George Dance
It doesn't sound as if Carroll wrote it -- I think it's a nursery
rhyme that he's just using. Notice how Alice refers to it: "... the
words of the old song kept ringing through her head like the ticking
of a clock, and she could hardly help saying them out loud:"
>
> This page has my favorite of his, "You Are Old, Father William."
http://www.sabian.org/alicech5.htm
I've always liked that one. I liked it even more when I discovered the
Southey poem that Carroll was parodying:
>
> Leisha
I dunno; I liked Carroll when I was a boy, but
Will Dockery
>Cythera said:
<snip for focus>
> > People who see this page
>
> >http://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2010/03/fuji-san.html
>
> > might think "Fuji-san" is also for sale
>
> But they also see that they can make their own copy, on a drive or a
> printout, without paying anything:
>
> Fuji-san by George Dance is licensed under a Creative Commons
> Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Canada License.
>
> ??? Do you really think I'm trying to trick anyone into buying "Betty"
> on Kindle by making them think fucking Fuji-san is on included? Now
> your stories about me are becoming not just 'inaccurate' and
> 'untruthful' (to use the current SP buzzwords) but ridiculous.
While looking for something else, I found the original "conversation"
between you, Stuart, Cythera, Karla & others, which will illuminate
this current "conversation" greatly. Here's the link, cached, since
the actual page seems dead and soon to vanish:
And some interesting excerpts that shed light on what really went on
back then, such as an early source for the Fuji-san / hat / snowcap
image:
Lafcadio Hearn had the idea that Fuji looked like a straw hat in
1898.
> "They supplied me with a pilgrim-staff, heavy blue tabi (that is to
> say, cleft-stockings, to used with sandals), a straw hat shaped like
> Fuji, and the rest of a pilgrim's outfit;--telling me to be ready to
> start with them at four o'clock in the morning."
>http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/lh/fuji.html
It looks to me that, for 'Cythera and the others,' it depends on who
borrows, and/or from whom.
Fuji-san
In the flaming sun,
Fuji-san wears his
White-straw sugegasa.
-George Dance
so much snow
fuji-yama
white-sugar hat
-Cythera
George Dance wrote:
> >Cythera wrote:
> > > How is your poem substantively different from mine?
>
> > Mine mentions the sun; yours doesn't. Mine mentions the mt. by its
> > proper name; yours doesn't; mine mentions the conical straw hat and
> > gives its proper name (which I found myself using the link I posted
> > Feb. 10); yours doesn't (even though, it turns out, you'd seen the
> > same link).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conical_straw_hat
Then about 12 hours later I wrote the following and included this
> > wikipedia url:
> >
> > I thought the top of Fuji-yama looks like a conical hat. Children wear
> > them in Japan.
----
From Stuart Leichter (08.03.2010 - 21:35):
Back in '98 windshield_washer posted this revision of one of her
poems,
which she called icebergs:
tell me the icebergs of your life
the world below the waterline
emotions courtships bluebirds crows
concepts of justice definitions of sin
criterion of ethics visions of nobility
what is the tempo of your life
networks of friendships orders of time
and when you fall in love
how do you tell your beloved
I read it to an audience at one of my poetry performances, along with
some other poems which also had been posted at rec.arts.poems around
the
same time by other writers. I gave appropriate credit. My stated
purpose
was to introduce the online poetry group forum to active poets. After
(days or weeks, I don't remember), I told her or the group in general
that I'd performed the works in public. No one got abscesses on their
asses about it. No one at the reading asked me if I'd got permission
first - probably because it was the last thing that would have
occurred
to any of them.
----
On Mar 8, 1:07=A0pm, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
sneezuschristsupersnarl <sneezuschr...@cox.net> wrote:
> Of course, Dockery is going to try to come to George's
> rescue/defense
No, George doesn't need any more rescue/defense than others working
in
that form of poetry ("Borrowed Keyword" is one term) than others who
use the method, Houstman, Adam, et al do.
> by claiming Betty is borrowed from him. =A0
No "claim", I was the one who created the "Betty" character, and even
had my own poem about her (although I eventually changed her name
again, to a real person I know):
Betty & Her Pale Blue Hat by Will Dockery
There's more, but this wasn't exactly what I was looking for, which
was any indication that Cythera (or George) originally gave *any*
credit to Rain Shadow for being the originator of the ideas and images
in *both* their poems.
So far, I've seen none, at least none from the time the poems were
generated.
--
Poetry & Music by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
George Dance
As for me, I didn't credit rain shadow's poem, because I didn't know
about rain shadow's poem. I didn't read that section of the thread, in
which PJ Ross was flaming r/s through one of his bogus conversations
with an ally. A month or so later I stumbled on Cythera;'s post to
Barbara's Cat which began with her "haiku".
I discovered rain shadow's poem only a month after that, and I wrote
to her on the group; but she didn't reply.
George Dance
> >Cythera said:
>
> <snip for focus>
>
> > > People who see this page
>
> > >http://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2010/03/fuji-san.html
>
> > > might think "Fuji-san" is also for sale
>
> > But they also see that they can make their own copy, on a drive or a
> > printout, without paying anything:
>
> > Fuji-san by George Dance is licensed under a Creative Commons
> > Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Canada License.
>
> > ??? Do you really think I'm trying to trick anyone into buying "Betty"
> > on Kindle by making them think fucking Fuji-san is on included? Now
> > your stories about me are becoming not just 'inaccurate' and
> > 'untruthful' (to use the current SP buzzwords) but ridiculous.
>
> While looking for something else, I found the original "conversation"
> between you, Stuart, Cythera, Karla & others, which will illuminate
> this current "conversation" greatly. Here's the link, cached, since
> the actual page seems dead and soon to vanish:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2a8ccaj
>
> And some interesting excerpts that shed light on what really went on
> back then, such as an early source for the Fuji-san / hat / snowcap
> image:
Not exactly on topic for right here, but: I noticed a quote in there*
from Stuart Leichter that is well worth preserving, so onto the thread
it goes:
* (if Cythera doesn't mind be sayng 'there' for a post, as she's
already complained that posts and threads aren't "locations").
Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
schmatta inspired George. So what?
- Stuart Leichter
http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty
Will Dockery
> On Oct 13, 2:02 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Oct 13, 1:48 pm, Hieronymous <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > > > Do you
> > > > want to claim that your poem was not influenced in any way by Rain Dance's
> > > > poem, Cythera? If so, the facts seem to indicate otherwise, that's all.
>
> > > Do you think it possible that neither Cythera's nor George's poems
> > > were specifically "influenced" in any way by Rain Shadow's, but that
> > > the writing of both poems was 'motivated' [prime mover] by exposure to
> > > Rain Shadows piece, like if I heard somebody say something about a
> > > "stellar moment", and I riffed on a rhyme about that very subject
> > > without being specifically influenced by the something somebody had
> > > said?
>
> > Sure, that sounds like a reasonable explanation to me, -hi-.
>
> I don't know this prime mover that -hi- is quoting, but I'll note that
> Stuart Leichter used a similar word -- "inspired" -- in a similar
> context:
>
> Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His
> found
> schmatta inspired George. So what?
> - Stuart Leichter
> http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty
"And that's the name of that tune." -Robert Blake
--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
"Hieronymous DCCVII" <hierony...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:49a63cb5-b6e6-4747...@l17g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 11, 12:01 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> I've gotta butt in here, because I think that you're putting words
>> into his mouth.
>Be my guest, butt ahead.
>>He's said, in his own way,
> That comment in and of itself pretty much defines "putting words into
> his mouth", don't you think?
>> that Adam's is a derivative
>> work; and that a derivative work should contain some sort of
>> acknowledgement, some kind of way a reader can get back to, its source
>> material. But he hasn't made the better/worse comparison.
> If you haven't witnessed his "better/worse comparison", far be it from
> me to point it out to you.
Well, you /can't/ point it out, really, because it never happened like that.
I did ask for a credit line from Adam, and he agreed that I should have one.
After all, better or worse, Adam's piece wouldn't exist if mine hadn't been
created first.
Literally so, since every word Adam used came from my poem, as shown.
> Will has no grounds for demand from Adam. As you point out, Adam's
> debt is to his reader, not to Will. Adam 'owes' Will nothing.
>> 'Hacked up copy-and-paste verion" sounds to me like a description of
>> how Adam created the work; he simply cut, copied, and pasted Will's
>> original.
>
> Doing that kind of thing well, artfully, simply isn't as simple as
> either you or Will make it out to be.
Well, no, and I noted this in the original thread, also. I compared his work
to the Cut-Up methods of William S. Burroughs & others, as I've mentioned,
which is high praise if you know anything about that work. But, the fact
remains that word-for-word, image-for-image, the "pastiche" by Adam comes
directly from my earlier poem (later set to music, it is a poem set to music
to touch on an earlier question of yours that you seem to have deleted form
the archives already), and for that, and in any case that my work is adapted
in this and other methods, I request that a credit line be added, perhaps
something like "Based on the poem by Will Dockery".
Which Adam agreed to with no problem... the problem has come from those who
constantly want to chime in with their opinions, when the basic concept of
copyright law was created to protect a creator in my position. I own my work
and all rights to the use of my work "upon creation".
--
Poetry & Music by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
> It's not Adam's fault you weren't satisfied with a perfectly
> acceptable answer. Nevertheless, Adam acquiesced to your demand,
> although he had no legal or moral compunction to do so. Adam was
> justing being a good guy. I like Adam.
I like Adam, also, and even more so since he did decide to do the
right thing and give credit where it was due.
I don't know if you remember, but there was more than one adaptation
of my poetry by Adam... I'll get to those late, when I return, and
have more time.
> > But, the fact
> > remains that word-for-word, image-for-image, the "pastiche" by Adam comes
> > directly from my earlier poem (later set to music, it is a poem set to music
> > to touch on an earlier question of yours that you seem to have deleted form
> > the archives already), and for that, and in any case that my work is adapted
> > in this and other methods, I request that a credit line be added, perhaps
> > something like "Based on the poem by Will Dockery".
>
> You need to get your facts straight vis a vis word-for-word, image-for-
> image. He didn't copy your work "word-for-word" in any sense of the
> phrase. What he did was copy words and paste them in a different
> order. That is not copying "word-for-word".
I have to leave for a while, -hi-, but before I go I'll leave you with
a couple of quick questions on what appears to be your stance on the
"fair use" question:
Okay, let me get this, your opinion, correctly... you're saying that
this is acceptable on all levels, to "copy words and paste them in a
different order", with anyone and anyone's poetry? Or is this somehow
a special case, or one of some number of special cases?
Your opinion, belief, or even possibly knowledge, is that I (although
it doesn't interest me to just copy words and paste them in a
different order, I prefer to create original work) could legally (in
your opinion) take a poem by, say Billy Collins or Rod McKuen, copy
their words and paste them in a different order, sign it as my own
original work (iow no credit or note on the source of my ideas and
poem) and call it my own, even publish it?
Somehow something doesn't sound quite right about that... is that the
way you really feel? This is a serious question, so correct me if I'm
wrong and I can move on to the next question.
I have a feeling I, or anyone else, might more likely wind up in a
situation like the ones Matt describes below, though:
mat1t3 <amirrorcan...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> In music it's called "riffing".
>
> However, if it's borrowed directly from the song
> it's called stealing. The Beach Boys borrowed
> directly from the Chuck Berry song Sweet Little Sixteen
> in the song Surfin USA. They gave him no credit.
> Eventually, he got the credit he deserved. Brian
> Wilson claimed that the song was "influenced"
> by a couple people including Chuck Berry.
>
> Adam claimed his version of Dockery's poem to
> be a "pastiche". However, he borrowed word
> for word. He should have at least put Will's
> name in the credits.
That's what I would do if I were in that situation.
Peter J Ross
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
> schmatta inspired George. So what?
> - Stuart Leichter
> http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty
Oh, some irresponsible twit agrees with Dunce! No doubt we'll all have
to change our minds about everything now that the irresposible twit
has been quoted!
Incidentally, Dunce, WTF is "freak-search.com"? Is it the dating
agency where you and Dreckery first met?
--
PJR :-)
http://pjr.gotdns.org/
Will Dockery
>
> WTF is "freak-search.com"?
Another Usenet gateway-archive, for example:
http://www.freak-search.com/en/thread/1386134/she_sleeps_tightpastiche/4
HTH & HAND.
George Dance
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:29:30 -0700 (PDT),
>
> > Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
> > schmatta inspired George. So what?
> > - Stuart Leichter
> > http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty
>
> Oh, some irresponsible twit agrees with Dunce! No doubt we'll all have
> to change our minds about everything now that the irresposible twit
> has been quoted!
>
Unlike you and the rest of the alleged "betters" from RAP, Stuart
appears to have actually studied the issue.
> Incidentally, Dunce, WTF is "freak-search.com"?
I've never been there. Why are you asking me?
> Is it the dating
> agency where you and Dreckery first met?
>
More homophobing, homophobic PJ? Does Rik Roots (left back on RAP
writing poetry or whatever) know about your constant homophobing
here*? Think he should be told?
(*Note to Karla: Just because "RAP" and "here" are in the same
sentence, does not mean that I'm saying that RAP is "here.")
> --
> PJR :-)http://pjr.gotdns.org/
Will Dockery
>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > Stuart appears to have actually studied the issue.
>
> issue. You don't have to say appears to have, actually. It sounds
> betters if you say Stuart actually studied the issue. GET IT NOW,
> GEORGE?!? ALL BETTERS!?!
Stuart also stated that he was "an expert" on the subject, earlier
that year:
Stuart Leichter wrote:
"...Back in the 90s owing to EZ www access, the Dean of Students
(he's also a lawyer) at one of our campuses and I workshopped our
faculty about 'plagiarism'. Right, I'm a trained professional about so-
called plagiarism. The euphemistic rubric had become known as
'academic integrity', plagiarism became a behavioral issue instead of
an academic issue, following then-recent court decisions about
plagiarism in secondary and higher education academic settings. You
couldn't outright flunk the bastard in the course for cheating. Even
if the course was called Ethics. From what I can tell here in this
thread, none of y'all knows enough about plagiarism to say something,
dispositive one way or another. As an expert I will assure you,
George, that Dale plagiarized Alacrity in the within matter, and also,
it can be ignored, not mentioned, as though it weren't plagiarism;
given the context (here on Usenet's aapc, or in a classroom setting),
it's a subjective judgment, so what matters is who's judging and if
the judge is qualified. I'm qualified. More? Even had Houstman given
credit and attribution to Alacrity, he still plagiarized Alacrity -
that is, if I say so and can show the improper borrowing (but I would
sooner eat broken glass). Everything depends on who makes the rules
and who can enforce them."
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8v5eb9Qx5E
ARTEMIS RECORDS ® presents "JUST STOP THE WAR!" by GLAZ WIND.This
music video features several artists including, Basil Fitzpatrick,
Clyde Baker, Durundo Jenkins, Faye Fitzpatrick, Will Dockery, Gaye
Poor, Sandy Madaris, Gene Woolfolk Jr., Gary Adkins, and Henry Foster
Conley. A portion of proceeds of CD and internet music downloads goes
to support the Disabled American Veterans. Edited By Jamie Mitchell.
Will Dockery
> On Oct 15, 11:45 am, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:29:30 -0700 (PDT),
> > George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
> > > schmatta inspired George. So what?
> > > - Stuart Leichter
>
> > http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty
>
He's an expert, and supposedly taught classes on the subject at one
time or another.
> > Incidentally, Dunce, WTF is "freak-search.com"?
>
> I've never been there. Why are you asking me?
>
> > Is it the dating
> > agency where you and Dreckery first met?
>
> More homophobing, homophobic PJ? Does Rik Roots (left back on RAP
> writing poetry or whatever) know about your constant homophobing
> here*? Think he should be told?
>
> (*Note to Karla: Just because "RAP" and "here" are in the same
> sentence, does not mean that I'm saying that RAP is "here.")
Heh... PJR probably secretly slobbers all over Dennis Hammes'
homoerotic limmericks about us.
--
"Black Crow's Brother" / Will Dockery & Gini Woolfolk:
http://www.myspace.com/music/will-dockery-1735549/songs/black-crow-39-s-brother-woolfolk-dockery-59140025
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> with me, when he did a "Michael Cook" on Karla's poem, and put it,
> almost word-for-word with a video on his website, I, like you,
> "reviewed the evidence, I came up with my honest conclusion", which
> was completely on Karla's side. It helped that I had been through
> almost exactly the same situation the year before with the theft of my
> "Karma Bombs" poem (which is a famous story, no need to repeat here,
> heh)."
>
> In fact, the only thing PJR mentions is his opinion
PJR's "opinion" is in the face have having been shown several times
the archived posts where Cook gave me the audio which he had stolen my
poem to make in the first place.
> that you stole Cook's audio.
Cook's audio was made with my poem, which he stole, word-for-word,
even closer than Bishop did with your "April" poem, that fact is
apparently fine with PJR, and perhaps you, as well, judging from your
tone about it here, Karla. Is this true?
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> with me, when he did a "Michael Cook" on Karla's poem, and put it,
> >> almost word-for-word with a video on his website, I, like you,
> >> "reviewed the evidence, I came up with my honest conclusion", which
> >> was completely on Karla's side. It helped that I had been through
> >> almost exactly the same situation the year before with the theft of my
> >> "Karma Bombs" poem (which is a famous story, no need to repeat here, heh).
>
> >> In fact, the only thing PJR mentions is his opinion
>
> >PJR's "opinion" is
>
Yes, it should be... maybe PJR will listen to you?
> you accepted what Cook offered.
Exactly, right, Karla, and point taken. Cook "gave" me the recording,
and did so in writing, but, as Gwyneth states so often, as long as PJR
continues to lie about me and what happened, then I will continue to
set the record straight, or will continue to for as long as I'm able.
> Same with Adam's poem. You accepted his
> agreement to give you some credit.
Yes, and Adam fully understood my reasons, eventually.
> Why are you going on & on about it
> every time someone mentions plagiarism or copyright infringement?
Well, they're two good examples of situations similar to those, with
some fairly reasonable solutions to the problems.
As you may remember, I suggested to Bishop, before he turned on me for
"taking your side", as he put it that he at least try offering you
both of those things, to at least credit you on the video, which you
know he never did, and then perhaps offering to just give you the
video, which is the solution I reached with Cook.
Will Dockery
>
> > Michael Cook
>
> Some nightmares just never end
Well, I kind of miss old Cook, Barbie... his antics were sometimes
pretty amusing, here's a favorite that's become an internet icon, with
several people even claiming to have produced it;
http://picasaweb.google.com/ginopiper/PDWilsonAndOtherPics#5226684879005292610
But, as Gwyneth points out about herself, when someone comes on here
with lies and misrepresentations about me, I will be there to, as she
puts it, "Set the record straight."
HTH & HAND.
--
Poetry & Music of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
>
> she needs to give written credit to William Shakespeare.
No, Cythera, you should be well-read, intelligent and/or "educated"
enough to know that a homage to someone as well-known and legendary as
W.S. (or even Jagger-Richards, who you foolishly mention below) is
much different from "borrowing" from an obscure poet where the casual
reader is unlikely to know the reference.
That's been called in the past "trying to pass the work off as your
own", as Rik Roots put it.
> that you owe it to Jagger/Richards for your phrase "moonlit mile."
The Rolling Stones have "Moonlight Mile", not "Moonlit Mile", Cythera.
See above for the lowdown on that, Cythera, plus, my poem "Moonlit
Mile", has very little-to-nothing in common, really, with the Rolling
Stones masterpiece, which is, again, called "Moonlight Mile", not
Moonlit:
Moonlit Mile
So many tears on a moonlit mile
through Aokigahara forest
old man tips his snow cap.
-Will Dockery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara
Barbara's Cat
> HAND.
Your lover's name?
--
Cm~
"I win."
- Goober Dockery
getting nowhere,
gaining nothing,
again.
Will Dockery
>
> > HAND.
>
> Your lover's name?
No--- "Have A Nice Day."
Moonlit Mile
So many tears on a moonlit mile
through Aokigahara forest
old man tips his snow cap.
-Will Dockery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara
--
Barbara's Cat
> Barbara's Cat said:
>
> > Goober Dockery said:
> >
> > > HAND.
> >
> >
> > Your lover's name?
>
>
> No
Even it rejects you, eh, Goober?
Will Dockery
>
> Even it rejects you
Having comprehension problems again, Barbie?
IOW, what do these statements have to do with my poem "Moonlit Mile"?
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=39701667&blogId=539953394
Will Dockery
>
> They are exemplars, as "Moonlit Mile" is the perfect exemplar of both
> your work, and your attitude toward your work.
Thanks, but a little more detail here would be even more appreciated, -
hi-.
> I bet you're real
> proud of yourself there now aren't you mister smartypants. Don't
> answer. That's not a question.
Okay.
--
Moonlit Mile / Will Dockery:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=39701667&blogId=539953394
Will Dockery
>
> > > They are exemplars, as "Moonlit Mile" is the perfect exemplar of both
> > > your work, and your attitude toward your work.
>
> > Thanks, but a little more detail here would be even more appreciated, -
> > hi-.
>
> ten times. Then, if you still need more detail, ask again nicely.
> Maybe I'll take pity on you, if I think you're asking humbly enough,
> and deign to reply. I don't think so, but you can try.
Okay, that sounds like a plan, then... heh.
Moonlit Mile
>
> So many tears on a moonlit mile
> through Aokigahara forest
> old man tips his snow cap.
>
> -Will Dockery
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara
--
Will Dockery
>
> > I've gotta butt in here, because
Why not, PJR? That's what Usenet is all about, after all.
Peter J Ross
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 11:45 am, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:29:30 -0700 (PDT),
>> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
>> > schmatta inspired George. So what?
>> > - Stuart Leichter
>> > http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty
>>
>> Oh, some irresponsible twit agrees with Dunce! No doubt we'll all have
>> to change our minds about everything now that the irresposible twit
>> has been quoted!
>>
>
> Unlike you and the rest of the alleged "betters" from RAP, Stuart
> appears to have actually studied the issue.
You appear to have actually studied Iambic Pentameter. But your
opinions about it still make me laugh whenever I think of them.
>> Incidentally, Dunce, WTF is "freak-search.com"?
>
> I've never been there. Why are you asking me?
OK. So why do you provide links to Web sites you've never been to?
>> Is it the dating
>> agency where you and Dreckery first met?
>>
>
> More homophobing, homophobic PJ? Does Rik Roots (left back on RAP
> writing poetry or whatever) know about your constant homophobing
> here*? Think he should be told?
No doubt Rik would be SHOCKED if he knew that I'd called you and
Dreckery a pair of freaks.
It's interesting that, unlike me, you assume that homosexuality can't
be implied without an insult being intended. It's so interesting that
I'd like you to write some more on the subject.
> (*Note to Karla: Just because "RAP" and "here" are in the same
> sentence, does not mean that I'm saying that RAP is "here.")
Since you've crossposted your pathetic attempt to get support from
Rik, all the groups you've crossposted to are "here".
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hieronymous Corey <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > Stuart appears to have actually studied the issue.
>>
>> Of course Stuart studied the issue. You can say Stuart studied the
>> issue. You don't have to say appears to have, actually. It sounds
>> betters if you say Stuart actually studied the issue. GET IT NOW,
>> GEORGE?!? ALL BETTERS!?!
>
> Stuart also stated that he was "an expert" on the subject, earlier
> that year:
Will Dreckery also stated that he was "a poet and musician", passim.
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross wrote:
>>
>> > I've gotta butt in here, because
>> > that's what I do all the fucking time.
>
> Why not, PJR? That's what Usenet is all about, after all.
I suppose you don't have a choice. It would be sad if it weren't so
much fun to point and laugh at.
Will Dockery
>
> It's interesting that, unlike me, you assume that homosexuality can't
> be implied without an insult being intended.
And what did your pal intend when he pasted stolen photos (which is
bothe copyright theft & intellectual property theft, as you know) of
people we know (no reason to name names at this late date, right,
PJR?) onto stolen photographs of gay porn & whatever the stolen
photograph below comes from:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ginopiper/PDWilsonAndOtherPics#5226684879005292610
I don't actually have the photos where homosexuality was not only
implied by your friend, but his fantasies were vividly depicted, and
caused the similarly famous statement from Karla:
http://www.n-n-a.com/recreational/post-611037.html
"...I have no idea what most of you mean when you bash someone by
depicting them in homosexual acts, whether it is with words or
pictures. What I mean is, using it here may not mean that you're
anti-gay, homophobic, sexist, etc. I have no idea. But the cheap shot
isn't helpful and promotes sexist and homophobic thinking..."
-Karla Rogers
Anyway, this is just another example of your bland hypocrisy, PJR, and
example of why anyone reading the newsgroups shouldn't trust a word
you type.
--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html
ggamble
> hypocrisy
Will Dockery
>
> Will Dockery has made such a fuss about Adam's pastiche
Just pointed it out as an example of why your thinking against GD last
week was so wrong, Cythera. Adam & I have no problems whatsoever.
> and Dale's re- do of Alacrity's poem.
I did have fun with the "Mercury Clocks" comparisons, but not nearly
as much of a "fuss" as your recent hectoring of George Dance, falsely
accusing him of "stealing" a poem (Fusgi-San) that turns out wasn't
even an original poem of your own!
Do you think now that all that will be forgotten just because you
delete all the posts you made calling GD a "thief" & referring to his
"thiefsite" over & over, Cythera?
> Will Dockery has informed us all that *he*
> doesn't do "covers." If a two-word homage isn't a cover, what is it?
Hold up, Cythera, you're putting words in my mouth, here. Where did I
write that I never do covers?
Here's one where I do a Joe Cocker favorite of mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBpnUOepRZg
But, my poem "Moonlit Mile" is absolutely not a "cover", either way,
no more than your poem was a "cover" of Lafcadio Hearn, who had "your"
idea over 100 years ago:
http://www.freak-search.com/en/thread/1386312/fuji-san_george_dance/3
Lafcadio Hearn had the idea that Fuji looked like a straw hat in
1898.
"They supplied me with a pilgrim-staff, heavy blue tabi (that is to
say, cleft-stockings, to used with sandals), a straw hat shaped like
Fuji, and the rest of a pilgrim's outfit;--telling me to be ready to
start with them at four o'clock in the morning."
http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/lh/fuji.html
Get it yet, Cythera?
Moonlit Mile
>
> > So many tears on a moonlit mile
> > through Aokigahara forest
> > old man tips his snow cap.
>
> > -Will Dockery
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara
--
Will Dockery
Honeytrip Sestina
Beads of sweat driving on 280,
thinking about a lonesome wildflower.
Cross country for this honeytrip,
going down to incant a shadowmusic,
joined on stage by her fiddle,
swear to god I really miss her.
She knows that I've missed her,
she drives alone on highway 280.
Her grandfather also played fiddle,
and grew gov'ment wildflowers.
Let him play his shadowmusic,
as we recall the honeytrip.
Backpacked, hitchhiked to honeytrip,
waterfall spray did mist her,
we formed a band to play shadowmusic.
Down in Salem, on Highway 280,
saw the sign of Project Wildflower,
a contra agent but plays good fiddle.
In the night sirens played fiddle,
rustling wail of honey trip.
Behind her ear was a wildflower,
I knew some day I would miss her.
Looking for tea olive on 280,
to play a few hours of shadowmusic.
Down a moonlit mile wild shadowmusic,
Bibb Mill burned as he played fiddle.
Westbound down Highway 280,
like a hound for the honeytrip,
after all her lies I still missed her,
blowing kisses from a field of wildflowers.
Sang a melody like "Wildwood Flower",
she made it her own kind of shadowmusic.
When he stepped on stage we called him mister,
ghost of Sgt. Fury playing show fiddle.
The only crown prince of honey trip,
people parked and walked from 280.
Smell the wildflowers, surrounded by shadowmusic,
I miss her and her grandfather's fiddle.
Lonesome old honeytrip, in a hollow off 280.
-Will Dockery
--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
> On 20-Oct-2010, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > Angel, Vera, Marg... all the victims of your obsessed spreading of
> > lies & misrepresentation, not to mention your outright, vicious
> > attacks whenever they posted a poem here, ggamble.
<snip for focus>
> Angel wasn't a poet
Lie #1 from ggamble. Angel wrote and posted poetry here, and still
does on other groups. This "not a poet" thing you get stuck on, as if
you are in a position to judge what is and isn't poetry, is perhaps
your biggest and most destructive lie and misrepresentation of all.
> The same goes for Vera.
Lie #2 from ggamble. Vera posted many poems here, and as the archives
show, your attacks on her were probably your most vicious of all.
> marg wasn't a poet either
She posted (and still does, elsewhere) poetry, so yes, liar, she is a
poet.
--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v9uGY157cpiU
ggamble
On 20-Oct-2010, Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This "not a poet" thing you get stuck on, as if
> you are in a position to judge what is and isn't poetry, is perhaps
> your biggest and most destructive lie and misrepresentation of all.
As if.
And you think you are in a position.
You're in a position, all right, one that I certainly don't envy.
So, lying moron, what, specifically qualifies you to be an arbiter of what
is and isn't poetry, and what disqualifies me?
To extrapolate just a bit: I'm certain that you consider yourself to be a
poet, and that you consider me to not be one.
If I'm mistaken in this, you can feel free to correct me right now.
How do you make that distinction? Specifically. I'll give you time to go
look up *arbiter* and *specifically*.
ggamble
On 20-Oct-2010, Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This "not a poet" thing you get stuck on, as if
> you are in a position to judge what is and isn't poetry, is perhaps
> your biggest and most destructive lie and misrepresentation of all.
It's interesting how you attempt to turn an accurate, objective statement of
fact into a *destructive lie and misrepresentation*.
Do you think that if you type something, no matter how ridiculous, that it
suddenly becomes an eternal truth?
You do know that this Narcissistic Personality Disorder thing that you get
stuck on really limits your ability to deal with the world outside, don't
you?
and whoosh
Meat Plow
Facts:
Posting words will not turn words into poetry.
Being called poetry by Will Dockery will not turn words posted into
poetry.
Being called a poet by Will Dockery will not turn a person into a poet.
Will Dockery is not an authoritative figure in poetry and lacks
qualification to determine who is a poet and who is not.
HTH
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
Will Dockery
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:22:29 -0700, Will Dockery wrote:
> > "ggamble" <ggasfly @lying.burnout.net> wrote:
> >> On 20-Oct-2010, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> > Angel, Vera, Marg... all the victims of your obsessed spreading of
> >> > lies & misrepresentation, not to mention your outright, vicious
> >> > attacks whenever they posted a poem here, ggamble.
>
> > <snip for focus>
>
> >> Angel wasn't a poet
>
> > Lie #1 from ggamble. Angel wrote and posted poetry here, and still does
> > on other groups. This "not a poet" thing you get stuck on, as if you are
> > in a position to judge what is and isn't poetry, is perhaps your biggest
> > and most destructive lie and misrepresentation of all.
>
> >> The same goes for Vera.
>
> > Lie #2 from ggamble. Vera posted many poems here, and as the archives
> > show, your attacks on her were probably your most vicious of all.
>
> >> marg wasn't a poet either
>
> > She posted (and still does, elsewhere) poetry, so yes, liar, she is a
> > poet.
<snip for focus>
> Will Dockery is not an authoritative figure in poetry and lacks
> qualification to determine who is a poet and who is not.
And I take it you now claim to have these "qualifications", Meat Plow, since
you've just made all these judgements?
Have you even written a song or a poem yet? Last I heard you'd admitted you
haven't... click the link below for an example of /both/ from "Will
Dockery":
Will Dockery
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:22:29 -0700, Will Dockery wrote:
<snip for focus>
> Will Dockery is not an authoritative figure in poetry and lacks
> qualification to determine who is a poet and who is not.
And I take it you now claim to have these "qualifications", Meat Plow, since
you've just made all these judgements?
Have you even written a song or a poem yet? Last I heard you'd admitted you
haven't... click the link below for an example of /both/ from "Will
Dockery":
--
Will Dockery
>
> Will,
>
> One need not necessarily be a good judge of poetry in order to tell a
> good judge of poetry from a bad judge of poetry when one sees either
> one, or the other.
<snip for relevance>
Well, I can't argue with that one, -hi-!
I just object mainly to this "not a poem" + "not a poet" ggamble & his
ilk want to try to pass off here as "poetry critique".
--
"Rosell" and other new poetry & music from Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> stolen photos
Are you refering to the photos which the rotting corpse formerly known
as Tommy Tosser stole from God, alias Michael Cook?
Peter J Ross
Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And I take it you now claim to have these "qualifications", Meat Plow,
No, Dreckery, that's something you've just made up.
Mr Plow may or may not be qualified to judge what's a poem and who's
a poet, but he wasn't talking about himself.
"Not talking about oneself" is something that many people are able to
do quite often. You should try it some time.
Peter J Ross
Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
<tripesnip>
One day, after you've learnt what a poem is, you might learn what a
sestina is.
But I doubt it. You don't want to learn, you only want to mark these
newsgroups as your territory by smearing your excrement on them.
Meat Plow
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:20:51 -0400, Will
> Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And I take it you now claim to have these "qualifications", Meat Plow,
>
> No, Dreckery, that's something you've just made up.
Of course he made it up being the Revenge-Dweeb he is.
> Mr Plow may or may not be qualified to judge what's a poem and who's a
> poet, but he wasn't talking about himself.
I was not making any judgments on who were or who weren't poets or what
is or is not a poem. Merely that Will Dockery is not in any position
himself to pass those judgments on others.
> "Not talking about oneself" is something that many people are able to do
> quite often. You should try it some time.
Will Dockery can't grasp the concept.I stopped suggesting he should stop
looking at the world through Will Dockery colored glasses long ago.
Will Dockery
>
> Mr Plow may or may not be qualified to judge what's a poem and who's
> a poet,
The point is that no man is qualified to judge that, good or bad,
poetry is still potery, written by the poet. A simple concept, really,
that you have no control over, PJR.
Get it?
> but he wasn't talking about himself.
No, "Mister Ross", I was talking about him.
Try to keep up, pal.
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross said:
>>
>> Mr Plow may or may not be qualified to judge what's a poem and who's
>> a poet,
>
> The point is that no man is qualified to judge that, good or bad,
> poetry is still potery, written by the poet. A simple concept, really,
> that you have no control over, PJR.
>
> Get it?
Does poetry also come from ~The Heart~ and ~The Soul~, Dreckery?
And do you think that every pile of wood is a chair?
Will Dockery
>
> Does poetry come from ~The Heart~ and ~The Soul~
I'll ask Sharon McElroy the next time I see her.
Will Dockery
>
> Are you refering to the photos which the rotting corpse formerly known
> as Tommy Tosser stole from God, alias Michael Cook?
No, I was refering to this post:
Will Dockery
>
> Keep doing the dockery dance
Glad you're not to "busy" to enjoy dancing with me, old pal!
Writeen any new poetry lately? Heh... "We know."
> > It's interesting that, unlike me, you assume that homosexuality can't
> > be implied without an insult being intended.
>
> And what did your pal intend when he pasted stolen photos (which is
> both copyright theft & intellectual property theft, as you know) of
Barbara's Cat
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