Qustion:
Vera
Answer: The great poet and playwright, T.S.Eliot!
(apparently he hadn't written a novel because novels
took too long to write).
Why could Eliot (the Great) be allowed short lines in
free verse, while scumbags of UseNet go berserk when little
old Vera follows suit?
Because this realm of scumbags also admired the emperor's
new clothes.
Text Medium No. 5
Q: AM I AN IDIOT AND A PENIS CRAVER?
A: I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS!!! ;-) IT RHYMES WITH MESS
Renay
"Vera" <vera...@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:45ad27da$0$27925$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> little old Vera follows suit?
didn't you recently post that it was in bad taste
to poke fun at an octogenarian? now here you
are doing it your ownbadself. hypocrite!
Renay
Peter J Ross
in rec.arts.poems:
> Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
Because I do not hope to turn again, I'll guess that it might have
been Kipling.
> Answer: The great poet and playwright, T.S.Eliot!
Well, silly me! The woodthrush calling through the fog must have
confused me!
> (apparently he hadn't written a novel because novels
> took too long to write).
True, but what about that poker game in Bordeaux?
> Why could Eliot (the Great) be allowed short lines in
> free verse, while scumbags of UseNet go berserk when little
> old Vera follows suit?
Like the Fisher King, we are all wounded by your Googling skills,
Vera, but when we come in under the shadow of this red rock the whole
earth is our hospital.
> Because this realm of scumbags also admired the emperor's
> new clothes.
I'm disappointed in you, Vera. I know what you done with that money I
gave you to get yourself some teeth.
(she won't get it, will she?)
--
PJR :-)
Diana
Peter J Ross wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:25:19 +1100, Vera <vera...@iinet.net.au> wrote
> in rec.arts.poems:
>
> > Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
>
> Because I do not hope to turn again, I'll guess that it might have
> been Kipling.
Hmm. My guess: Shakespeare. Desiring this man's gift and that man's
scope and all that. Or was it 'art' instead of 'gift'... I can't
remember.
> > Answer: The great poet and playwright, T.S.Eliot!
>
> Well, silly me! The woodthrush calling through the fog must have
> confused me!
Dang-it-all! Me too. I guess I can't glitter with the glory of knowing
the answer before I was told.
>
> > (apparently he hadn't written a novel because novels
> > took too long to write).
>
> True, but what about that poker game in Bordeaux?
>
> > Why could Eliot (the Great) be allowed short lines in
> > free verse, while scumbags of UseNet go berserk when little
> > old Vera follows suit?
>
> Like the Fisher King, we are all wounded by your Googling skills,
> Vera, but when we come in under the shadow of this red rock the whole
> earth is our hospital.
Surely Google can show Vera the sharp compassion of the healer's art.
That by searching a heap of broken images the yield could be the cure,
the poem, the luck-found pot o' gold!
>
> > Because this realm of scumbags also admired the emperor's
> > new clothes.
>
> I'm disappointed in you, Vera. I know what you done with that money I
> gave you to get yourself some teeth.
>
Perhaps she'll say: If you don't like it you can get on with it. Dunno.
>
>
> (she won't get it, will she?)
It wont be for lack of telling.
>
> --
> PJR :-)
Diana "It isn't just one of your holiday games" of the Hunt
Peter J Ross
wrote in rec.arts.poems:
>
> Peter J Ross wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:25:19 +1100, Vera <vera...@iinet.net.au> wrote
>> in rec.arts.poems:
>>
>> > Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
>>
>> Because I do not hope to turn again, I'll guess that it might have
>> been Kipling.
>
> Hmm. My guess: Shakespeare. Desiring this man's gift and that man's
> scope and all that. Or was it 'art' instead of 'gift'... I can't
> remember.
I often forget things too. But I do not hope to find the white hart
behind the white well.
>> > Answer: The great poet and playwright, T.S.Eliot!
>>
>> Well, silly me! The woodthrush calling through the fog must have
>> confused me!
>
> Dang-it-all! Me too. I guess I can't glitter with the glory of knowing
> the answer before I was told.
Ah well. Thus, Diana, your fathers were made fellow-citizens of the
saints, of the household of GOD.
>> > (apparently he hadn't written a novel because novels
>> > took too long to write).
>>
>> True, but what about that poker game in Bordeaux?
>>
>> > Why could Eliot (the Great) be allowed short lines in
>> > free verse, while scumbags of UseNet go berserk when little
>> > old Vera follows suit?
>
>>
>> Like the Fisher King, we are all wounded by your Googling skills,
>> Vera, but when we come in under the shadow of this red rock the whole
>> earth is our hospital.
>
> Surely Google can show Vera the sharp compassion of the healer's art.
> That by searching a heap of broken images the yield could be the cure,
> the poem, the luck-found pot o' gold!
I certainly pity these antipodeans who are constantly arguing with
each other. What life have they if they have not life together? There
is no life that is not in community.
>> > Because this realm of scumbags also admired the emperor's
>> > new clothes.
>>
>> I'm disappointed in you, Vera. I know what you done with that money I
>> gave you to get yourself some teeth.
>>
> Perhaps she'll say: If you don't like it you can get on with it. Dunno.
I found an appropriate reply to this, but then the wind sprang up at
four o'clock and I lost it.
>> (she won't get it, will she?)
>
> It wont be for lack of telling.
And when you are telling, you are also
Listening. And in the intricate
Hearing of our Midas ears, there
Is also telling. (Tell me, tell me
The old, old story. Weialala.) And this paragraph,
To which one might listen sometimes,
And also sometimes not listen, or perhaps
While listening be deaf as a jug, and yet
not verstammlich deaf, tone deaf, mutt-and-jeff,
(As Dido languishèd the while her banjo strummed
(And och! the ships a' sunk that sailit far frae Troy!),
Is nevertheless perhaps maybe up to a point,
As the Tyrtaenian listener tells us
(Deaf man with maiden's dugs and huge jug ears),
No parody at all.
:-)
>> --
>> PJR :-)
>
> Diana "It isn't just one of your holiday games" of the Hunt
--
PJ "here the patient kook breeds for the rifle" R :-)
ggamble
A more relevant question:
What the fuck is the matter with you?
On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
the quick answer is she's all pissed because she didn't know who TS Eliot was
when you asked the question.
that's the quick answer. i'm sure it's more complex than that, though.
Most sincerely,
GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I like to drink, I like to drive, I like to think all of the Jews got out of
the Holocaust alive, my name is Mel, and can't you tell, I like Tequila!"
Denis Leary
Dennis M. Hammes
> Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
>
Nobody, so far as I know.
Send me ten bucks, title to the title, and academic approval, and
I'll take a shag at it, though.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
I do not "negotiate" for half my baby back, Solomon.
http://scrawlmark.org
Dennis M. Hammes
> Peter J Ross wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:25:19 +1100, Vera <vera...@iinet.net.au> wrote
>>in rec.arts.poems:
>>
>>
>>>Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
>>
>>Because I do not hope to turn again, I'll guess that it might have
>>been Kipling.
>
>
> Hmm. My guess: Shakespeare. Desiring this man's gift and that man's
> scope and all that. Or was it 'art' instead of 'gift'... I can't
> remember.
And I can't tell you. His novels were so boring I never got around
to his villanelles.
Michael Cook
"Peter J Ross" <p...@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrneqqqt...@pjr.gotdns.org...
still worth reading
David
"Peter J Ross" <p...@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrneqqqt...@pjr.gotdns.org...
> I certainly pity these antipodeans who are constantly arguing with
> each other. What life have they if they have not life together? There
> is no life that is not in community.
Cite please...
David.
ggamble
Bitter much?
I thought so.
As usual, you've completely and utterly missed the point.
I said nothing about the length of the lines in your wretched poem.
I said nothing about the syllable count in the lines in your wretched
poem.
I would never say anything about the syllable count in the lines of
your wretched poem because only idiots who know nothing about poetry
would ever even mention syllables. (whoosh)
I suppose the exception to that statement would be in reference to
the English bastardization of the haiku form, but I digress.
You are ignorant when it comes to linebreaks.
It's clearly evident from your poem attempts.
I posted a thread with a link to an extract from a good, short blurb
on the subject of linebreaks.
I picked a good, short blurb because I know you have the attention
span of a field sparrow.
I had hoped you would read the good, short blurb on linebreaks, so
that maybe you could learn something on the subject of linebreaks, and
maybe apply that knowledge to your next poem attempt.
I have no idea whether you read the good, short blurb on linebreaks or
not.
If you did attempt to read it, it's a good bet that you failed to
comprehend and retain the information contained in the good, short
blurb on linebreaks.
So, since you're droning on about the
Relative Length of the Lines,
you spectacular fucken moron, I'll assume that your knowledge base on
the subject of linebreaks is roughly the same size as before I posted
the good, short blurb on linebreaks.
In other words,
you have no concept of how to break a line;
you think that the ridiculously amateurish practice of breaking a line
to emphasize a word is not only desirable, but Academically Accepted,
and therefore above comment or criticism.
Furthermore, as Peter pointed out, you don't even adhere to your own
flawed regime of breaking a line solely for emphasis.
You're lazy, ignorant, stubborn and incapable of understanding even
the most simple of concepts.
And, you demonstrate these facts with nearly every post you make.
This is an attack on your writing, but you will no doubt consider it
an attack on your person.
It's an attack on a specific, technical, readily acknowledged aspect
of your wretched attempt at writing verse.
Your only response is name calling and non-sequiturs because you can't
possibly conceive that I'm right about this and you are wrong.
But, you were published by an obscure magazine in the 70's, which
means you have a lifetime exemption from criticism.
jesus
fuck
************
"I welcome suggestions (not rude ones) but shall not be
changing anything.
Whereas professional editors corrected mistakes in my
novels, not one found fault in my poetry."
Vera,
welcoming suggestions
Rik Roots
> Vera wrote:
>> Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
>>
> Nobody, so far as I know.
>
15-love
Rik, knee deep.
--
"Is that a new chapbook, Rik?"
"Indeed it is - and it's free to download for your own personal reading
pleasure!"
From Each Skull, A Story
http://www.rikweb.co.uk/poems/download/skullstory.pdf
(a Rik's Sparky Little Printing Press production)
David
"ggamble" <f...@net.com> wrote in message
news:sclsq2d9l6mnebis9...@4ax.com...
> But, you were published by an obscure magazine in the 70's, which
> means you have a lifetime exemption from criticism.
I would know what a small obscure magazine is.
Vera was published in what is known as reputable literary journals.
Dennis M. Hammes
Plato, /Crito/, e.g.; Donne, the "No Man Is an Island" sermon, e.g.,
Cicero's defense of Cato, e.g.
The very existence of poetry, even of language, is founded on it.
Dennis M. Hammes
Well, d00d, /no/ editor has /ever/ criticised one of her /poems/.
(The whoosh: no editor ever criticises /anybody's/ poems. Nobody
who needs that sort of work on a piece so small is ever going to
amount to a damn on /his/ schedule. What makes rap, aapc, etc., so
valuable to the aspiring poet who welcomes suggestions.)
The Secretary of HomIntern
DennisDeadMommaBiscuit makes retarded assertions again. R U back to
defecating in public again, nimrod? Of course you are.
ggamble
They might have been reputable before they published here, but they
sure as fuck weren't immediately after.
ggamble
Hey, halfwit!
Why don't you comment on the rest of the post?
Better yet, help your partner in illiteracy read it.
Peter J Ross
rec.arts.poems:
Choruses from 'The Rock', II 38-39
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
rec.arts.poems:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:25:19 +1100, "Vera" <vera...@iinet.net.au>
> wrote:
>
>>Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
>>
>>Answer: The great poet and playwright, T.S.Eliot!
>> (apparently he hadn't written a novel because novels
>> took too long to write).
>>
>>Why could Eliot (the Great) be allowed short lines in
>>free verse, while scumbags of UseNet go berserk when little
>>old Vera follows suit?
>>
>>Because this realm of scumbags also admired the emperor's
>>new clothes.
>>
>
>
> Bitter much?
> I thought so.
>
> As usual, you've completely and utterly missed the point.
If she'd missed only one point, she'd have been showing signs of
improvement.
Perhaps the most entertaining thing she's missed here is that
"Prufrock" isn't free verse. It's as far from free verse as anything
written by Swinburne or the most elaborate troubadour. (Swinburne was
the acknowledged expert on metre when "Prufrock" was written, and all
the modernists had to read the troubadours because Pound wouldn't shut
up about how good they were. In "Prufrock" Eliot equalled Swinburne,
and might have impressed even Bertan de Born. And of course the
non-metrical aspects of the poem surpass them both.)
Let us go then, you and I,
(iambic trimeter with anacrusis)
When the evening is spread out against the sky
(iambic pentameter with anacrusis)
Like a patiient etherised upon a table;
(iambic pentameter with anacrusis)
Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
(iambic pentameter with anacrusis)
The muttering retreats
(iambic trimeter)
Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
(iambic pentameter)
And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells;
(iambic pentameter)
Streets that follow like a tedious argument
(iambic pentameter with anacrusis)
Of insidious intent
(iambic trimeter with anacrusis)
To lead you to an oberwhelming question...
(iambic pentameter)
Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?'
(iambic trimeter with anacrusis)
Let us go and make our visit.
(iambic trimeter with anacrusis)
Eliot follows this Dante-like opening with a pair of tetrameters and a
pair of fourteeners, before resuming the pentameter/trimeter system
that predominates in the poem.
Surely even somebody who dislikes good poems as much as Vera seems to
dislike them couldn't miss that?
--
PJR :-)
Diana
Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> Diana wrote:
>
> > Peter J Ross wrote:
> >
> >>On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:25:19 +1100, Vera <vera...@iinet.net.au> wrote
> >>in rec.arts.poems:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
> >>
> >>Because I do not hope to turn again, I'll guess that it might have
> >>been Kipling.
> >
> >
> > Hmm. My guess: Shakespeare. Desiring this man's gift and that man's
> > scope and all that. Or was it 'art' instead of 'gift'... I can't
> > remember.
>
>
> And I can't tell you.
Darn! Where are the answers when you need them most?!
>His novels were so boring I never got around
> to his villanelles.
Ah! Now that wouldn't be the first time I've heard that.
But would it have been worthwhile?
Dennis M. Hammes
> Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>
>>Diana wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Peter J Ross wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:25:19 +1100, Vera <vera...@iinet.net.au> wrote
>>>>in rec.arts.poems:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
>>>>
>>>>Because I do not hope to turn again, I'll guess that it might have
>>>>been Kipling.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hmm. My guess: Shakespeare. Desiring this man's gift and that man's
>>>scope and all that. Or was it 'art' instead of 'gift'... I can't
>>>remember.
>>
>>
>>And I can't tell you.
>
>
> Darn! Where are the answers when you need them most?!
>
>
>>His novels were so boring I never got around
>>to his villanelles.
>
>
> Ah! Now that wouldn't be the first time I've heard that.
> But would it have been worthwhile?
>
That depends on whether you're still wearing the shawl, doesn't it.
Unless that wasn't what you meant.
Diana
> On 16 Jan 2007 14:48:10 -0800, Diana <Diana_of...@excite.com>
> wrote in rec.arts.poems:
>
> >
> > Peter J Ross wrote:
> >> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:25:19 +1100, Vera <vera...@iinet.net.au> wrote
> >> in rec.arts.poems:
> >>
> >> > Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
> >>
> >> Because I do not hope to turn again, I'll guess that it might have
> >> been Kipling.
> >
> > Hmm. My guess: Shakespeare. Desiring this man's gift and that man's
> > scope and all that. Or was it 'art' instead of 'gift'... I can't
>> > remember.
>
> I often forget things too. But I do not hope to find the white hart
> behind the white well.
And the lost hart stiffens for a moment when the branch is broken,
but then rejoices in its camouflage!
One of the heads in the well informed me that the white hart leapt
from behind the white well and caused some excitement in Arthur's
court.
So look to the King’s land, and if anyone has a brachet…
>
> >> > Answer: The great poet and playwright, T.S.Eliot!
> >>
> >> Well, silly me! The woodthrush calling through the fog must have
> >> confused me!
> >
> > Dang-it-all! Me too. I guess I can't glitter with the glory of knowing
> > the answer before I was told.
>
> Ah well. Thus, Diana, your fathers were made fellow-citizens of the
> saints, of the household of GOD.
But that has only made me Lazy, and my mining and carpentry skills
suck, so: Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work I go with Sleepy, Grumpy,
Dopey, Sneezy, Bashful, Happy, and Doc!
At the day’s end we march home, extinguish the candle, put out the
light and relight it the next day!
>
> >> > (apparently he hadn't written a novel because novels
> >> > took too long to write).
> >>
> >> True, but what about that poker game in Bordeaux?
eh what, Sam?
> >>
> >> > Why could Eliot (the Great) be allowed short lines in
> >> > free verse, while scumbags of UseNet go berserk when little
> >> > old Vera follows suit?
> >
> >>
> >> Like the Fisher King, we are all wounded by your Googling skills,
> >> Vera, but when we come in under the shadow of this red rock the whole
> >> earth is our hospital.
> >
> > Surely Google can show Vera the sharp compassion of the healer's art.
> > That by searching a heap of broken images the yield could be the cure,
> > the poem, the luck-found pot o' gold!
>
> I certainly pity these antipodeans who are constantly arguing with
> each other. What life have they if they have not life together?
> There is no life that is not in community.
Is it antipodean arguing forever? Is there no center, no middle? There
are those who would build the community and those that would prefer the
community not be built.
>
> >> > Because this realm of scumbags also admired the emperor's
> >> > new clothes.
> >>
> >> I'm disappointed in you, Vera. I know what you done with that money I
> >> gave you to get yourself some teeth.
> >>
> > Perhaps she'll say: If you don't like it you can get on with it. Dunno.
>
> I found an appropriate reply to this, but then the wind sprang up at
> four o'clock and I lost it.
Bitter wind! Then I shall shake my spear!
And though the mountains shake…
> >> (she won't get it, will she?)
> >
> > It wont be for lack of telling.
>
> And when you are telling, you are also
> Listening. And in the intricate
> Hearing of our Midas ears, there
> Is also telling. (Tell me, tell me
> The old, old story. Weialala.) And this paragraph,
> To which one might listen sometimes,
> And also sometimes not listen, or perhaps
> While listening be deaf as a jug, and yet
> not verstammlich deaf, tone deaf, mutt-and-jeff,
> (As Dido languishèd the while her banjo strummed
> (And och! the ships a' sunk that sailit far frae Troy!),
> Is nevertheless perhaps maybe up to a point,
> As the Tyrtaenian listener tells us
> (Deaf man with maiden's dugs and huge jug ears),
> No parody at all.
>
> :-)
>
That deaf kindaman is smooth
I like the Scottish line.
Verstammlich? Is that any relation to the creature lich, sorta undead
lich ?
> >> --
> >> PJR :-)
> >
> > Diana "It isn't just one of your holiday games" of the Hunt
>
> --
PJ "here the patient kook breeds for the rifle" R :-)
Diana
Show me a hart that rejoices and I’ll show you doe in a coffer… er
.. coffin
Diana
> Diana wrote:
>
> > Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >
> >>Diana wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Peter J Ross wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:25:19 +1100, Vera <vera...@iinet.net.au> wrote
> >>>>in rec.arts.poems:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Who wrote "The Song of J.Alfred Prufrock"?
> >>>>
> >>>>Because I do not hope to turn again, I'll guess that it might have
> >>>>been Kipling.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Hmm. My guess: Shakespeare. Desiring this man's gift and that man's
> >>>scope and all that. Or was it 'art' instead of 'gift'... I can't
> >>>remember.
> >>
> >>
> >>And I can't tell you.
> >
> >
> > Darn! Where are the answers when you need them most?!
> >
> >
> >>His novels were so boring I never got around
> >>to his villanelles.
> >
> >
> > Ah! Now that wouldn't be the first time I've heard that.
> > But would it have been worthwhile?
> >
>
> That depends on whether you're still wearing the shawl, doesn't it.
> Unless that wasn't what you meant.
>
what I meant at all! Would it have been worthwhile to have read his
novels, triolets, and villanelles?
But more importantly:
Boring? You think his novels were boring?! To really appreciate his
novels, to really come to understand his villanelles, I really think
you should have started with one of Eliot's excellent triolets.
And I must tell you, these are but bon-bons to one of his wistful
villanelles. His villanelles are the silken essence of raspberry white
chocolate mousse. And the novels I simply cannot, simply will not
describe.
Diana
I just made myself sick.
Dennis M. Hammes
Too much mousse'll do that to ya.
('Specially if you were spoZe to put it on your hair.)
Peter J Ross
wrote in rec.arts.poems:
> ?
There are several attitudes to parodying Eliot,
some of which we may disregard . . .
> That deaf kindaman is smooth
> I like the Scottish line.
It's more Poundish than Eliotic, but I couldn't resist it.
> Verstammlich? Is that any relation to the creature lich, sorta undead
> lich ?
I know liches only from computer games like Exile and Wesnoth, though
líc (pronounced approximately "litch") is Anglo-Saxon for "corpse" in
prose and for "body" (living or dead) in verse. "Lych-gate" (an
entrance to a graveyard) is a derivative of it. "Leichnam" is a German
derivative of the same root, but "Stuart Leichter" probably doesn't
mean "the Franco-Scottish guy who knows where the bodies are buried",
unfortunately.
"Verstammlich" is fake German. The noun "Stamm" is etymologically
equivalent to the English "stem" and can mean "tree-trunk", but tends
to have overtones of ancestry, as in "family tree", while "-lich" is
the equivalent of "-ly" and "ver-" is sometimes an intensive prefix.
"Inveterately" or "rootedly" might be translations of my made-up word.
There are bits of German in Eliot (even quotations of Richard Wagner's
dire doggerel), so I had to include *some* German.
I'm surprised you didn't complain about "Tyrtaenian", which does for
the great and ambiguous poet Tyrtaeus what "verstammlich" does for the
great and ambiguous noun "Stamm".
--
PJR :-)
Diana
> On 19 Jan 2007 04:10:21 -0800,Diana<Diana_of_the_h...@excite.com>
> wrote in rec.arts.poems:
>
>
>
> > Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> >> And when you are telling, you are also
>> Listening. And in the intricate
> >> Hearing of our Midas ears, there
> >> Is also telling. (Tell me, tell me
> >> The old, old story. Weialala.) And this paragraph,
> >> To which one might listen sometimes,
> >> And also sometimes not listen, or perhaps
> >> While listening be deaf as a jug, and yet
> >> not verstammlich deaf, tone deaf, mutt-and-jeff,
> >> (As Dido languishèd the while her banjo strummed
> >> (And och! the ships a' sunk that sailit far frae Troy!),
> >> Is nevertheless perhaps maybe up to a point,
> >> As the Tyrtaenian listener tells us
> >> (Deaf man with maiden's dugs and huge jug ears),
> >> No parody at all.
>
> >> :-)
>
> some of which we may disregard . . .
I enjoyed this.
The question mark happened by mistake. It was originally a ;) when it
was in a word file but google, wonderful trickster that it is, thought
to have it say otherwise.
>
> > That deaf kindaman is smooth
> > I like the Scottish line.It's more Poundish than Eliotic, but I couldn't resist it.
Well, it is dedicated to him after all. So it's only fitting to craft
it in. ;)
>
> > Verstammlich? Is that any relation to the creature lich, sorta undead
> > lich ?I know liches only from computer games like Exile and Wesnoth, though
> líc (pronounced approximately "litch") is Anglo-Saxon for "corpse" in
> prose and for "body" (living or dead) in verse. "Lych-gate" (an
> entrance to a graveyard) is a derivative of it. "Leichnam" is a German
> derivative of the same root, but "Stuart Leichter" probably doesn't
> mean "the Franco-Scottish guy who knows where the bodies are buried",
> unfortunately.
Maybe Stuart's name doesn't mean that, but the name would make for an
interesting last name for a character in a mystery novel or play where
that was exactly what it meant and also that it should to serve the
plotline in some way. Or it was made to make you think it was to serve
the plot anyway.
I know liches from the Final Fantasy games and from Gurps. But before
I started searching for some meaning to why it was a verstammlich kind
of deaf I didn't know about Lych-gates and I definitely didn't know
that there was a distinction of the Anglo-Saxon word lic in prose and
verse.
I liked mutt-and-jeff deaf.
>
> "Verstammlich" is fake German. The noun "Stamm" is etymologically
> equivalent to the English "stem" and can mean "tree-trunk", but tends
> to have overtones of ancestry, as in "family tree", while "-lich" is
> the equivalent of "-ly" and "ver-" is sometimes an intensive prefix.
> "Inveterately" or "rootedly" might be translations of my made-up word.
> There are bits of German in Eliot (even quotations of Richard Wagner's
> dire doggerel), so I had to include *some* German.
Interesting stuff and thanks. I remembered the bits of German in the
poem, so knew why you might be including *some* German. But I didn't
suspect it was fake German until my mostly non-knowing German self
couldn't find the word. That's when I turned to lich. I know a little
of the the storyline, and that there are several versions, but I don't
know the opera. Why "dire doggerel"? Wagner triggers Parsifal for me.
>
> I'm surprised you didn't complain about "Tyrtaenian", which does for
> the great and ambiguous poet Tyrtaeus what "verstammlich" does for the
> great and ambiguous noun "Stamm".
If I complained at all, it was only to myself because I was pretty sure
you were referencing a person (literary or military), or a location,
but I didn't know and couldn't find the reference. Now I know it and
more about Stamm and where they come from and what they mean!
(Etymology is fun.) So thanks. I like "Tyrtaenian". Because you used
the word alongside listener, and gave us the line that follows it, I
did think immediately about Tiresias the seer and his wrinkly self.
Diana
The genealogist wonders at the family tree. (keeps it from being cut
down)
<groan>
>
> --
> PJR :-)