For one, Dexter seems to make referals to events covered in the TV series that
were not novels. I know some of the earlier Morse TVs were "Based on an idea by
Colin Dexter." So, he was close to the making of the show. But in this story,
he seems to outright deny certain plot developments of the TV show - Max's
departure (a stroke, in the show, but not fatal and not something Morse was
overly concerned about) and replacement (in the show by Grayling and in the book
by Laura?? -- my mind just went blank). The love interest remains, and Dexter
does not exactly make a point of who the woman is that turns up on Morse's door
step at the end of the book -- but I have my suspicions.
So, is Dexter trying to dump the whole Grayling (Russell??) storyline from the
TV show? And if so, is there a reason why? He mentions Lewis's travel to
Australia (as in the TV episode shot in Australia?) and other instances that
refer to the TV show, but again he denys a relatively important plot line. As I
said, I'm confused.
Then there is the entire mystery story itself. Am I the only one who guessed
from the outset that the Swedish Maiden was alive and well and concealed behind
a mudpack and towel? It was almost blatant rip-off from another TV show in
which a girl has vanished, Morse is called into the case after everyone else
fails, Morse sends bogus letter (though I have to admit I was totally caught off
guard by Lewis's discovery when he typed Morse's letter of thanks to The Times),
and the girl turns up married to one of the suspects.
I am wondering, if this has not been covered before by this group, what were the
reactions of others to this (highly disappointing) book?
John
********************************************************************************
John J. Doherty ||| ar nDuchtas (Our Inheritance) |||
NAU Cline Library ||| E-Mail: j...@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu ||| Tel.: (602) 523-6815
********************************************************************************
"The English Language has an unbroken tradition of excellence and when it goes
to sleep there is always an Irishman who appears and wakes it up."
Carlos Fuentes
********************************************************************************
>I recently read Dexter's newest Morse book, and was struck by the authors
>seeming confusion over what is "canonical" Morse. For those of you who have
> not
>read _The Way Through The Woods_ please go to the next message.
>For one, Dexter seems to make referals to events covered in the TV series that
>were not novels. I know some of the earlier Morse TVs were "Based on an idea
> by
>Colin Dexter."
Based on the characters I think. Colin Dexter has written a lot of the
non-book plot lines though.
>So, is Dexter trying to dump the whole Grayling (Russell??) storyline from the
>TV show? And if so, is there a reason why? He mentions Lewis's travel to
>Australia (as in the TV episode shot in Australia?) and other instances that
>refer to the TV show, but again he denys a relatively important plot line. As
> I
>said, I'm confused.
He has gradually brought the book character closer to the TV character. In
the early books, Morse drives a Lancia, not a Maroon Jag. Morse is also late
thirties, with Lewis being near retirement age, this has reversed in the
later books.
> Morse sends bogus letter (though I have to admit I was totally caught
> off
>guard by Lewis's discovery when he typed Morse's letter of thanks to The Times),>
>and the girl turns up married to one of the suspects.
That threw me too. An unusual device for Dexter to use.
Mike.
--
Michael S. Cowgill (Mike) \_ " ....Cracking toast Gromit!... "
ze...@myth.demon.co.uk (That's me) \_ Royal Blue Dragon
G1...@GB7WRG.GBR.EU 44.131.2.76 \_ -==(UDIC)==-
> In article <7FEB95....@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu>
> j...@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu "John J. Doherty, NAU Cline Library" writes:
>
> > Morse sends bogus letter (though I have to admit I was totally caught
> > off
> >guard by Lewis's discovery when he typed Morse's letter of thanks to The Times),>
> >and the girl turns up married to one of the suspects.
>
> That threw me too. An unusual device for Dexter to use.
>
> Mike.
I think that is the central mystery. Who sent the first letter.
Unfortunately, I did not reread the earlier parts to see if Dexter played
fair, ie. how did he write to disguise the fact that Morse knew about the
letter before he saw it in the newspaper.
On a tangential note, do others feel like I do that the TV episodes are
much better than the books? Also, I am really irritated by the "dirty old
man" protrayal of Morse in the book. He is after every woman sexually he
meets. Worse, with no justification, Dexter makes it that every woman
below 50 (irrespective of looks, personality,and significant others status)
are sexually attracted to, and are dying to get into bed with Morse. When
considering this, one should take into account the Morse character in the
book is far less attractive than the TV one. From the picture of Dexter on
the booksleeve, he is, to understate things, quite ordinary looking
(relative to say John Thaw eg.). I wonder if Morse's supposed sexual
attraction and conquests is not wishful thinking on his part.
--
Mike Ma
Physics Department
University of Cincinnati
m...@physunc.phy.uc.edu
> Australia (as in the TV episode shot in Australia?)
There was just a new episode on PBS here, "The Death of Self" which
takes place in Italy. Seems they are starting to show this series of
new ones. Another is scheduled for next week.
---
* OLX 1.52 * I used to go bananas for her, but now she's lost appeal.
: There was just a new episode on PBS here, "The Death of Self" which
: takes place in Italy. Seems they are starting to show this series of
: new ones. Another is scheduled for next week.
If it's handled there as it will be here in the San Francisco area,
the next two weeks are a single two parter, the two weeks following
that is another two-parter (one hour per night).
dhw
--
Fred and Dorothy Westphal, at home in Sunnyvale California
west...@netcom.com
: There was just a new episode on PBS here, "The Death of Self" which
: takes place in Italy. Seems they are starting to show this series of
: new ones. Another is scheduled for next week.
I'm an opera lover and am biased toward liking an episode where MOrse
gets into it. Even trying to put that aside, I thought "Death of Self"
was really well done. Great!
Pete
I missed something, so I apologize for this stupid question. Who
murdered the authoress (sorry can't remember her name)? I got the
impression that it was an accident, but was just used to scare her
husband to be apart of the art fraud scam.
Sally--
--
Per me si va ne la citta' dolente, || Sally A. Wilson
per me si va ne l'etterno dolore, || sa...@netcom.com
per me si va tra la perduta gente.... || La Spudtressa
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate. [Il inferno III, Dante]
SP> There was just a new episode on PBS here, "The Death of Self" which
SP> takes place in Italy. Seems they are starting to show this series of
SP> new ones. Another is scheduled for next week.
P> I'm an opera lover and am biased toward liking an episode where Morse
P> gets into it. Even trying to put that aside, I thought "Death of Self"
P> was really well done. Great!
I was completely fooled by the surprise crime instead of the obvious
one. Was she a good opera singer?
---
* OLX 1.52 * I'm not over the hill. I'm still climbing it!
SAW> I missed something, so I apologize for this stupid question. Who
SAW> murdered the authoress (sorry can't remember her name)? I got the
SAW> impression that it was an accident, but was just used to scare her
SAW> husband to be apart of the art fraud scam.
That's the way I saw it also. The husband was weak and knuckled under
to them right away. They sort of HINTED to him that it could happen to
him also, if he didn't cooperate...
---
* OLX 1.52 * I'm off to the racetrack!, Tom said hoarsely.
SP> There was just a new episode on PBS here, "The Death of Self" which
SP> takes place in Italy. Seems they are starting to show this series of
SP> new ones. Another is scheduled for next week.
F> If it's handled there as it will be here in the San Francisco area,
F> the next two weeks are a single two parter, the two weeks following
F> that is another two-parter (one hour per night).
Lessee: Right. It says first of two parts. "Absolute Conviction"
You think they'll show all 6 of this new series?
---
* OLX 1.52 * I'm not nearly as think as you confused I am.
Well, the CID pathologist is certainly after him!
He also seems to treat Sgt. Lewis a lot worse in the books then in the
TV episodes, IMO.
---
* OLX 1.52 * I'm on the corner of "Walk and Don't Walk".
>He also seems to treat Sgt. Lewis a lot worse in the books then in the
>TV episodes, IMO.
Both Morse and Lewis have been "laundered" for TV. Sorry, but I like
the imperfect originals. But on TV, the good guys can't have such
basic flaws.
I had a problem with that too! In the end, I just assumed that it really WAS an accident. And the real crime was the art smuggling. They kinda never went back to her death. I think that's why the Italian police wanted so bad for Morse to leave & let them get back to the smuggling.
ksc
Like Sally, I missed something too - like about a half hour of the show!
For some reason, neither our local PBS station (Seattle) in its
publication nor our local newspaper's TV Guide thinks fit to tell how
long episodes are going to be. I thought that I had read my schedule
correctly and programmed for 1.5 hours but, horrors, it was a 2 hour
show. Unfortunatley, none of my friends has the episode on tape either.
Can someone e-mail me (to my personal ID, not the list) the details of
what happened after Morse went back to the singer's villa and was looking
at the manuscripts? My tape cut out just as he bent over the case.
Thanks
--
Cindy Swoveland email: swov...@sfu.ca
Librarian, Belzberg Library phone: (604) 291-5051
Simon Fraser University, Harbour Centre fax: (604) 291-5052
Vancouver BC V6B 5K3
So, in summary, yes, I do prefer the TV Morse - J. Thaw makes the viewer
feel sorry for him. In prose, Morse comes across as someone I would really
love to kick in the pants.
The same thing happened to me. Sally--if you get the Tacoma PBS
station (channel 28, maybe?) up there in BC, they seem to rerun
Mystery! a few weeks after the Seattle station does. This is
one case where it's quite fortuitous to have Tacoma running
behind Seattle.... ;-)
-steve
I am glad to see a female reader be bothered by the sexist attitude of
Morse. Especially irritating is when in "Into the Woods" or whatever the
title is, the female pathologist told Morse not to address her as "my
dear", but was actually happy to be the object of Morse's sexist desire.
Before everyone condemns me for being PC, please remember Morse is a work
of fiction. In real life, of course someone can be just the way he/she
is, but in a work of fiction, to make sense, it is necessary to "explain"
why some, and especially the main character acts certain way, or at least
point out why the action is beyond explanation. When Colin Dexter
protrays a sexist, chauvanistic Morse without comments, one can only
conclude that he feels this is not a defect. And when all, not just an
occasional, female characters can't wait to hit the sack with this male
chauvinistic pig, we can only conclude that is the view of Dexter.
> Precisely because it is a work of FICTION means that the author invents
the characters.<
Just as actors and directors do.
> Whether consiously or sub-consiously, s/he gives each of them her/his
personality for a reason. While no one character represents the author
entirely, parts of some characters do. The question is who and which
parts.<
Exactly! Unless we KNOW the author, we cannot possibly know which is
which.
> An earlier poster and some others will argue that making Morse a flawed
character makes him more interesting. But a jerk is not intrinsically
more
interesting than a nice guy.<
I agree.
> The TV Morse is far more successful. May be because John Thaw's acting
suggests so much more than is in the script.<
I agree. I always "see" Thaw and Whately now when I read a Morse story.
> When an actor playing a rapist acts like he enjoys the rape, it may be
good acting and does not say anything about the actor.<
Exactly my point!
> OTOH, one can tell what the writer,say, feels about the rape.<
How so? What evidence do you have to support this assertion? It could
just be skillful writing.
>I think it is clear from Dexter's writing, since things are not presented
as seen thru Morse's eyes, that he shares the male chauvinistic attitude.<
How does the perspective from which things are presented have anything to
do with the author's personal views? It's just a way of approaching the
storyline. I have read all of Dexter's books at least twice and I do not
feel justified in inferring anything at all about Dexter the person. To
misquote Sherlock Holmes, "it is a capital error to theorize in the
absence of facts".
Colin Davies cjda...@aol.com or 71614...@compuserve.com
> > OTOH, one can tell what the writer,say, feels about the rape.<
> How so? What evidence do you have to support this assertion? It could
> just be skillful writing.
>
> >I think it is clear from Dexter's writing, since things are not presented
> as seen thru Morse's eyes, that he shares the male chauvinistic attitude.<
> How does the perspective from which things are presented have anything to
> do with the author's personal views? It's just a way of approaching the
> storyline. I have read all of Dexter's books at least twice and I do not
> feel justified in inferring anything at all about Dexter the person. To
> misquote Sherlock Holmes, "it is a capital error to theorize in the
> absence of facts".
This will be my final post on this subject. A good author would let you
know whether s/he is writing from a character's point of view or an
observer's point of view. Of course in a complex work of literature,
there is ambiguity and points of view can switch, so a reader may have to
work very hard to stay "afloat". The Morse series is hardly on such level
though. At any rate, a writer writes to communicate, and it is absurd to
say that s/he does not try to get her/his world view across. And if s/he
doesn't, it is just 100% escapist writing, and then everything would just
be as they appear on the surface.
perhaps there is one point I didn't make clear earlier. I don't care if
Dexter is a saint or a scoundrel. What i was trying to say is that the
overwhelming viewpoint that comes across in the Morse books is a male
chauvinist one. It is also clear that this viewpoint is not thru Morse's
eyes, and so one should not see it as "blurred" thru Morse. Remember the
women's feelings about Morse are described from their sides, not what
Morse percieved them to be.
The TV Morse is a sympathetic character with flaws and depth. The book
Morse is a shallow jerk with no redeeming values. My $.02.
--
Mike Ma
University of Cincinnati
m...@physunc.phy.uc.edu
You obviously did not READ my message. Precisely because it is a work of
FICTION means that the author invents the characters. Whether consiously
or sub-consiously, s/he gives each of them her/his personality for a
reason. While no one character represents the author entirely, parts of
some characters do. The question is who and which parts. An earlier
poster and some others will argue that making Morse a flawed character
makes him more interesting. But a jerk is not intrinsically more
interesting than a nice guy. It is what the author allows us to get to
the inside of the character that gives the depth which makes things
interesting. This Morse in Dexter's books (the three I have read) is just
as one-dimensional as say Hercule Poirot, except more irritating. If
Dexter thinks he is giving Morse depth, he has certainly failed. The TV
Morse is far more successful. May be because John Thaw's acting suggests
so much more than is in the script.
When an actor playing a rapist acts like he enjoys the rape, it may be
good acting and does not say anything about the actor. The actor is
limited to only protrying what that character feels. OTOH, one can tell
what the writer,say, feels about the rape. Bringing things back to Morse,
I think it is clear from Dexter's writing, since things are not presented
as seen thru Morse's eyes, that he shares the male chauvinistic attitude.
--
You're kidding! Every time an author creates a character with flaws, you
want those flaws explicitly commented on--and denounced--by the author?
Lord, can't some things be left for the reader to do? And who cares if a
fictional character is sexist or foodist or drinkist or allergic to
stupidity? This is fiction, after all. Must all characters be sterling
exemplars of current virtues? Jeesh.
Judith
Please allow the writer to develop his or her own characters, faults and
all, rather than impose some arbitrary standard upon them. After all,
next time the standard may be one that you, as the reader, do not agree
with.
-
BILL GABB YXU...@prodigy.com
Yes but....
It's not the flaws most of us who object to the character of Morse object to.
It's the fact that those flaws are ignored by the female characters in the
books. Morse is an overbearing, conceited, hard-drinking, over-weight
loner - which is fair enough and makes him an interesting character.
However those character traits, which in real life would ensure that no
woman twenty years or more his junior would look at him twice, in the novels
seem to ensure him at least one female per book. This glaring inconsistency
reduces the pleasure to be gained from the books.
It just would not happen like that in real life certainly not with
such monotonous regularity and I think it fair to ascribe Morse's
unlikely success with women to identification by the author with
the character. Dexter approves of Morse despite, or possibly
because, of his character flaws and constantly rewards him for behaving
appallingly.
It doesn't stop me reading the books but it sure as hell reduces the
pleasure to be had in reading them.
Kate
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It just goes to show," said his mother.)
"That the future is never revealed ) Ka...@caterce.demon.co.uk
if I'd known Albert were gonna get etten)
I'd a not 'ad 'is boots soled an 'eeled )
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yes but....
> It's not the flaws most of us who object to the character of Morse object to.
> It's the fact that those flaws are ignored by the female characters in the
> books. Morse is an overbearing, conceited, hard-drinking, over-weight
> loner - which is fair enough and makes him an interesting character.
> However those character traits, which in real life would ensure that no
> woman twenty years or more his junior would look at him twice, in the novels
> seem to ensure him at least one female per book. This glaring inconsistency
> reduces the pleasure to be gained from the books.
> It just would not happen like that in real life certainly not with
> such monotonous regularity and I think it fair to ascribe Morse's
> unlikely success with women to identification by the author with
> the character. Dexter approves of Morse despite, or possibly
> because, of his character flaws and constantly rewards him for behaving
> appallingly.
> It doesn't stop me reading the books but it sure as hell reduces the
> pleasure to be had in reading them.
It should probably be considered a compliment to Dexter's characterization
that he has created a hero who appalls readers by confronting them with a
common truth they might rather avoid: that a man with few obvious virtues
can snag a babe much more easily than a woman with equivalent failings can
make a great catch.
Proof of this principle is easily seen at any UT football game, where
fraternity men who strongly resemble your description of the great inspector
can be seen spilling beer over the most beautiful of women.
C.S. Froning
Kate, I suspect that you haven't spent much time around American
universities. Granted, the number of overweight, arrogant, sexist, morose
male faculty having affairs with handsome women in their twenties (i.e.,
students) is smaller than it used to be. But it's still considerable.
You might sniff and say, "What do they see in them?" But impossible? I
assure you, no.
Judith
>I am glad to see a female reader be bothered by the sexist attitude of
>Morse. Especially irritating is when in "Into the Woods" or whatever the
>title is, the female pathologist told Morse not to address her as "my
>dear", but was actually happy to be the object of Morse's sexist desire.
>Before everyone condemns me for being PC, please remember Morse is a work
>of fiction. In real life, of course someone can be just the way he/she
>is, but in a work of fiction, to make sense, it is necessary to "explain"
>why some, and especially the main character acts certain way, or at least
>point out why the action is beyond explanation. When Colin Dexter
>protrays a sexist, chauvanistic Morse without comments, one can only
>conclude that he feels this is not a defect. And when all, not just an
>occasional, female characters can't wait to hit the sack with this male
>chauvinistic pig, we can only conclude that is the view of Dexter.
>
What a load of codswallop! Morse is a work of FICTION. It's not a treatise
on how life should be, for heaven's sake!
Dexter is portraying a believable fictional character in a mystery novel.
Or are you suggesting that writers shouldn't allow their characters to
depict particular attitudes because someone might be offended? Or that
writers shouldn't portray chauvinists as if they didn't exist?
Those who analyze every work of fiction and ascribe the viewpoints of
fictional characters to the author are jumping to unwarranted conclusions.
Those who condemn fiction writers because of the alleged attitudes of
fictional characters should go stand in line with the religious fanatics
who condemn Salmon Rushdie.
--
r...@ham.island.net (Robert Smits)
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they
want, and deserve to get it good and hard. - H.L. Mencken
Judith
But would we excuse poor plotting because it's fiction? Can we accept
ludicrous events in a novel simply because similar things happen in real
life? WHat's the point of reading a novel then? Why not just hang
around with jerks and read newspapers? Doesn't the author owe it
to us to give us some insight, some understanding, some inkling, of why
these things happen? He doesn't have to spell it out - just give us a
clue! That was the point of the complaints about the characterization of
Morse - that we are not given any clue, any glint of a reason why all
these women are all over him when he is so insufferable.