OT - Semi-Controlled Press
Willow
Communications Corp. Most of our large dailies (TV and raido as well)
are owned by this group. Before that we fell under Conrad Black's
domain (Hollinger International). Canwest is described here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canwest
Canwest was developed by Israel "Izzy" Asper, and with his death fell
to his two sons. As with Conrad Black, Asper is Jewish. This has
meant that any newspaper in Western Canada has to follow the policies
established by Black and later Asper:
"The government of Israel and conflict in the Middle East. Veteran
Montreal Gazette reporter Bill Marsden has said that the Aspers "do
not want any criticism of Israel. We do not run in our newspaper op-ed
pieces that express criticism of Israel and what it is doing." [10] A
study released in 2006 by the Near East Cultural and Educational
Foundation of Canada found that the National Post was 83.3 times more
likely to report an Israeli child’s death than a Palestinian child’s
death in its news articles’ headlines or first paragraphs.[11] In 2008
Canwest launched a lawsuit against the Palestine Media Collective for
producing a newspaper parody of The Vancouver Sun that satirized this
bias.[11] In 2004, the Reuters news agency protested after Canwest
altered newswire stories about the Iraq war and the Israeli-
Palestinian conflict, such that Reuters felt it had inserted Canwest's
own bias under Reuters bylines. The changes were apparently made in
accordance with a Canwest policy to label certain groups as
terrorists."
Gwynne Dryer was published in Western Canada until he came out with
sereral articles that were mildly anti-Israel. His columns were
cancelled:
"Upon acquiring Southam's Newspapers from Hollinger International,
Israel Asper continued Conrad Black's policy of 'blacklisting'
influential Canadian world and military affairs journalist Gwynne
Dyer's internationally published articles. This antipathy was prompted
by Dyer's views on conflict in the Middle East and his opposition to
neoconservatism, which run contrary to the ideological views of Asper
and others on Canwest's board of directors then and today. Partially
as a response to this, Dyer published a collection of his articles on
the Middle East and related topics called With Every Mistake in 2005."
Black's wife writes a strongly pro-Israeli column that is still
published. Or at least was published until Lord Black (he gave up
Canadian citizenship to take the title) was sent off to jail in the
USA.
Thus every major newspaper in Western Canada follows a strong and
enforced bias in their reporting and op-ed pieces. Several weeks ago,
we were treated to an epic on the goodness of Israel, which could have
been written in Australia by Mr. Burke. Continuing this policy of
searching out pro-Israeli pieces to flesh out the op-ed pages (while
refusing to publish anything that might remotely be deemed critical of
Israel - the state not the people or religion) the Vancouver SUN
published the following nonsense this weekend:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rozenman11-2009dec11,0,5212003.story
If you read it, you will be struck by the logic - the League of
Nations 1922 Mandate is cited as authority for settlements. Forget
the League gave up the ghost years ago, and that the United Nations
took over in 1947. Forget even that the United Nations created Israel
in 1948. Forget that Resolution 242 and other issues have dealt with
the matter. Delight in the sophistry that divides good taking ("in
self-defense") and bad (in aggressive conquest"). Totally ignore the
forced removal of Palestinians from their lands, the bulldozing of
orchards and villages to make way for settlements. Yes, forget all
that and you have the article reprinted in the SUN from the LA Times.
This is the type of nonsense we are served up in Western Canada, and
why those of us who wish to lean must turn to other sources in
researching the nature of the Israel Palestinian conflict. Frankly,
we are surrounded by pro-Israeli propaganda of this type and all our
major newspapers being controlled by Canwest, that is all we can
expect. Perhaps we err from time to time in searching for an honest
reporter. I try to locate those who are neutral and where possible,
Israeli.
Frankly, this makes me mad. I do go on line to carefully selected
sources to find out what might be closer to the truth, but I am in a
minority. Too many simply read the paper and accept the pap that
these papers - with deliberate bias - provide. There is a saying in
law that law must not only be done, but must be seen to be done.
Unhappily, in Western Canada, the continued years of - dare I say it -
Jewish ownership through Black and Asper of major dailies has twisted
reporting on the Mideast to a remarkable degree. Reporters have been
fired, editors terminated and editorials thrown out for writing
articles neutral in perspective. One would hope that in this day and
age, Jewish ownership of newspapers would bend to appear neutral in
their reporting on this issue. Instead, they flaunt their bias
publicly. Bias is not only seen to be present; it is not even
hidden. Articles like this one from the LA Times are printed with no
balance even attempted.
Is this anti-semitic, Mr. Burke? No, it is not. It is rather
pointing out a very bad editorial policy by certain Jewish owners of
newspapers in my area. I would be equally as upset if the owners were
Serbian and continually printed articles that were anti-Bosnian. But
I cannot hide the facts. Black and Asper are indeed Jewish and very
pro-Israel and have stiffled any pro-Palestinian articles from our
media (Canwest owns TV and radio as well). Their reporting and
editorials are bias as deliberate policy, designed to present the
Palestinians in the worst possible light. It is unfortunate that
Black and Asper have followed a practice that simply so loudly
reinforces old stereotypes.
Willow
Mike Burke
wrote:
What it is, Willow, is you thrashing about looking for an excuse to
maintain your campaign of hate against Israel. Now it seems that you
can't even disguise your hatred of Jews, trotting out the old line
that the Jews own the media therefore they control it.
And it's Gwynne Dyer which, given the number of times you refer to
this famous journalist, you really ought to have been able to get his
name right by now, even if you can't recognise his equally famous
anti-American/pro-Palestinian bias.
You're incorrigible and I'm done with you.
Plonk.
Mique
Jim Gysin
Willow sent the following on 12/20/2009 7:27 PM:
> Living in Western Canada, we fall under the aegis of Canwest Global
> Communications Corp. Most of our large dailies (TV and raido as well)
> are owned by this group. Before that we fell under Conrad Black's
> domain (Hollinger International). Canwest is described here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canwest
>
> Canwest was developed by Israel "Izzy" Asper, and with his death fell
> to his two sons. As with Conrad Black, Asper is Jewish.
That didn't take too long! And why am I not surprised at this, coming
from you? Heck, I'm surprised you made it that far before taking a
shot. Excellent self-discipline you've got going for you when it comes
to those darned Jews. Nine lines before you attacked. Might be a record.
[Tons of the usual Willow anti-Jew obsession snipped]
It's a good thing we all know that you're not antisemitic, or some of us
might be shocked to see that this latest 139-line screed (no, I didn't
count, but my newsreader does it for me) seems to include a bit of
Jew-bashing.
And again, if this is you cutting back on the subject, what would we
have been getting day after day after day after day if you *hadn't* said
that you were gonna quit beating the topic to death?
FWIW, while I fully understand why Mike has killfiled you, my intention
(for the moment, at least) is to continue to mock you over your refusal
to admit to what should be painfully obvious to anyone else who hasn't
already killfiled you, as well. I killfile idiots all the time, but
when someone is an idiot *and* a bigot, it's good to have someone around
who's willing to point it out. And you, Willow, are an idiot and a
bigot, and I'm happy to point it out. Hope this helps.
--
Jim Gysin
Waukesha, WI
ia...@notcox.net
> Living in Western Canada, we fall under the aegis of Canwest Global
> Communications Corp. Most of our large dailies (TV and raido as well)
> are owned by this group. Before that we fell under Conrad Black's
> domain (Hollinger International). Canwest is described here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canwest
>
> Canwest was developed by Israel "Izzy" Asper, and with his death fell
> to his two sons. As with Conrad Black, Asper is Jewish. This has
> meant that any newspaper in Western Canada has to follow the policies
> established by Black and later Asper:
>
> "The government of Israel and conflict in the Middle East. Veteran
> Montreal Gazette reporter Bill Marsden has said that the Aspers "do
> not want any criticism of Israel. We do not run in our newspaper op-ed
> pieces that express criticism of Israel and what it is doing." [10] A
> study released in 2006 by the Near East Cultural and Educational
> Foundation of Canada found that the National Post was 83.3 times more
> death in its news articles� headlines or first paragraphs.[11] In 2008
Does Canada have no anti-trust laws to deal with monopoly ownership of
media?
Ian
Francis A. Miniter
> Living in Western Canada, we fall under the aegis of Canwest Global
> Communications Corp. Most of our large dailies (TV and raido as well)
> are owned by this group. Before that we fell under Conrad Black's
> domain (Hollinger International). Canwest is described here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canwest
>
> Canwest was developed by Israel "Izzy" Asper, and with his death fell
> to his two sons. As with Conrad Black, Asper is Jewish. This has
> meant that any newspaper in Western Canada has to follow the policies
> established by Black and later Asper:
>
> "The government of Israel and conflict in the Middle East. Veteran
> Montreal Gazette reporter Bill Marsden has said that the Aspers "do
> not want any criticism of Israel. We do not run in our newspaper op-ed
> pieces that express criticism of Israel and what it is doing." [10]
> Willow
>
The general before the specific. Freedom of the Press does
not guarantee an unbiased press. Newspapers (and now News
Broadcasters) with agendas are nothing new. Hearst was
famous for his agendas. I often call the Fox News Network
"the Republican News Network". They have a deeply
conservative bias. But the reason I often avoid them is not
their politically biased opinions but their dishonesty in
reporting the facts. Canwest appears from what I have been
able to find out to have a strong bias in favor of the
Liberal Party of Canada and in favor of Israel. That is not
a problem, just as FNN is not a problem. They are privately
(i.e., non-government) owned. The best way to hurt them is
not to patronize them and encourage others to do likewise.
There are alternatives. CBC is ubiquitous.
As to particulars, I tried to track down the quotation
above. I could not find the outer quotation - you did not
give attribution to the source. I did find a secondary
quotation for the inner quote - but I could not find a
primary source for it. I did find a primary source for a
similar comment, however: The Jerusalem Post, August 15,
2003, page 15.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jpost/access/389163491.html?dids=389163491:389163491&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Aug+15%2C+2003&author=Melissa+Radler&pub=Jerusalem+Post&edition=&startpage=15&desc=Mogul+with+a+message
Yes, it is likely that Canwest has exercised a strong
pro-Israeli bias. But this is the 21st century and news
sources abound. I said "has exercised" because I see that
in October of this year, Canwest was delisted from the
Toronto Stock Exchange when the majority owners - the Aspers
- gave up control of the company to its bondholders. The
Aspers now own only 2.3% of the common stock, while the
venture capital bondholders own 97.5%. Given that, it is
likely that you will see some editorial changes coming along.
--
Francis A. Miniter
Oscuramente
libros, laminas, llaves
siguen mi suerte.
Jorge Luis Borges, La Cifra Haiku, 6
Francis A. Miniter
> Willow wrote:
>> Living in Western Canada, we fall under the aegis of Canwest Global
>> Communications Corp. Most of our large dailies (TV and raido as well)
>> are owned by this group. Before that we fell under Conrad Black's
>> domain (Hollinger International). Canwest is described here:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canwest
>>
>>
>
> Does Canada have no anti-trust laws to deal with monopoly ownership of
> media?
>
> Ian
There is the Competition Act, which was originally modeled
to some extent on the American antitrust laws. But in the
early 1970s, Canada introduced Canadian content and
ownership restrictions on broadcast media with the intention
of preventing American takeovers of these media. An
indirect effect, however, was the concentration of power in
the hands of fewer companies. So the two laws have worked
at cross purposes, with the more specific law prevailing.
I remember when I lived in Toronto seeing the slogan "Nixon
drinks Canada Dry" written on walls.
Willow
> What it is, Willow, is you thrashing about looking for an excuse to
> maintain your campaign of hate against Israel. Now it seems that you
> can't even disguise your hatred of Jews, trotting out the old line
> that the Jews own the media therefore they control it.
As I hope is made clear, in this instance and place - i.e. Western
Canada - such control is a fact, not an old line.
Not my fault that and the Aspers have, in effect, used their media
power to promote pro-Israeli policies. In fact, ediotrs have been
fired for not toeing the company line of favouriing Israel.
Sometimes, Mr. Burke, the stereotypes are used when they are fact, not
fiction. That is regretfully so in this case - but at least we here
have CBC as an alternative in radio and TV.
As to Gwynne Dyer, he is hardly anti-American. He was most certainly
anti-neocon. And, insofar as reporting in Israeli Palestinian
matters, rather neutral.
To you, anyone who is neutral is "anti-Semitic". And, I might point
out, Jews are just as able to do bad things as any of the rest of us.
Not more, not less. Black and Asper each created media empires -
bully for them. What I oppose is their blatant pro-Israeli editorial
policy which stiffles debate in the issues .
Willow
Willow
> I killfile idiots all the time,
Gee, it must hurt when you have to do that to yourself...
So, writing that both sides (Israel and Palestine) have committed bad
things and war crimes in five decades of battle is anti-semitic. You
prove my point. You, and others like you, are so brainwashed that you
cannot see grey and only see black and white.
Willow
Willow
wrote:
> The general before the specific. Freedom of the Press does
> not guarantee an unbiased press. Newspapers (and now News
> Broadcasters) with agendas are nothing new.
Most certainly. However, as you point out later, the control of media
in Western Canada has been overwhelming - and legal. For the average
person, there is no alternative to the Balck/Asper line. The morning
and afternoon papers, published under different names, are owned by
tgeh same corporation (i.w. Vancouver SUN and PROVINCE). Not unless
you head to CBC Radio and TV - which I always do, by the way.
< There are alternatives. CBC is ubiquitous.
Thank the gods!
Given that, it is
> likely that you will see some editorial changes coming along.
Until Black and Asper, most of the newspapers were "independent" as
publishers let editors steer their own ships, as it were. Black and
later Asper were the ones that started to directly tell editors what
policies to follow. And yes, ther ewere indeed complaints along the
way, even commissions to look into press ownership in Canada. The
situation is especially bad in Western Canada were cities tend to be
spread out and limited in population. This tends to favour one daily
as opposed to several in those cities which, in this case, are all
owned by the same group.
Given that status, the comments made by Mr. Burke and others
concerning the so-called media bias *against* Israel is directly
contrary to conditions here. And the article cited from a recent
Vancouver SUN demonstrates that point - the article is perhaps
harmless, but one sided, pro-Israel and wrong. Funnily enough, that
article did not make the Internet edition of the SUN , which shows
some discretion, I suppose.
The problem being that when Mr. Burke and his remoras lean so far in
one direction, they become blind to the simple fact that in war, blame
can and does fall on both sides. As to Black/Asper, their control of
the media was not an issue until they demanded editors follow a
strictly pro-Israeli stance.
Willow
Mary
wrote:
> Yes, it is likely that Canwest has exercised a strong
> pro-Israeli bias. But this is the 21st century and news
> sources abound. I said "has exercised" because I see that
> in October of this year, Canwest was delisted from the
> Toronto Stock Exchange when the majority owners - the Aspers
> - gave up control of the company to its bondholders. The
> Aspers now own only 2.3% of the common stock, while the
> venture capital bondholders own 97.5%. Given that, it is
> likely that you will see some editorial changes coming along.
Good heavens, what will she do without the Jews to whine about?
Mary
Lynn Allen
> Willow wrote:
>> Living in Western Canada, we fall under the aegis of Canwest Global
>> Communications Corp. Most of our large dailies (TV and raido as well)
>> are owned by this group. Before that we fell under Conrad Black's
>> domain (Hollinger International). Canwest is described here:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canwest
>>
>> Canwest was developed by Israel "Izzy" Asper, and with his death fell
>> to his two sons. As with Conrad Black, Asper is Jewish.
Okay, up to now I've given Willow the benefit of the doubt on this,
with "there is bad & good on both sides."
But this is the dividing line for me. What purpose does it serve to
identify the owners by religion? Is it supposed to be more or less
understandable that they have a bias? Or is it supposed to be, as it
appears that you mean to imply, that their religion gives their actions
a taint they would otherwise not have?
That, my dear, is anti-semitism, pure and simple. By definition.
Would biased news reporting be better or worse if these people were
Catholic? Buddhist?
I also point out, that these papers are (or were) PRIVATELY OWNED. They
can do anything they want with their own property. Just because it's a
newspaper does not make it a public utility, and there is NO OBLIGATION
FOR UNBIASED REPORTING in a privately owned publication. So read them
or do not, but don't use biased reporting as a platform for bigotry.
Start your own blog. Heck, publish your own paper, with your own
personal bias.
The monopoly on media outlets in your area is a matter for the Canadian
government to address. Clearly you have access to other news sources,
so the only justification for this post is to inform us all of your
dissatisfaction with and dislike of the Jewish owners. To declare to
all, "My god! They're Jewish!" As if that should somehow influence our
opinions.
And yes, that's anti-semitism. No matter how you try to color it,
you've given yourself away with this one. I thought Mique was seeing
something I didn't, previously. Now I realize he was a bit more
perceptive than I thought.
So sorry. There's no way to just plonk "Willow's anti-semitic rants"
and leave "Willow's posts about mysteries."
--
--
Lymaree
http://www.skepticaljurorblog.blogspot.com/
ia...@notcox.net
>
>> Willow wrote:
>>> Living in Western Canada, we fall under the aegis of Canwest Global
>>> Communications Corp. Most of our large dailies (TV and raido as well)
>>> are owned by this group. Before that we fell under Conrad Black's
>>> domain (Hollinger International). Canwest is described here:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canwest
>>>
>>> Canwest was developed by Israel "Izzy" Asper, and with his death fell
>>> to his two sons. As with Conrad Black, Asper is Jewish.
>
> Okay, up to now I've given Willow the benefit of the doubt on this, with
> "there is bad & good on both sides."
>
> But this is the dividing line for me. What purpose does it serve to
> identify the owners by religion? Is it supposed to be more or less
> understandable that they have a bias? Or is it supposed to be, as it
> appears that you mean to imply, that their religion gives their actions
> a taint they would otherwise not have?
>
> That, my dear, is anti-semitism, pure and simple. By definition.
Why? He refers to their religion in the context of the papers'
established news policies. That is factual, and relevant.
>
> Would biased news reporting be better or worse if these people were
> Catholic? Buddhist?
Its not 'news reporting', its ownership censorship of reporting.
>
> I also point out, that these papers are (or were) PRIVATELY OWNED. They
> can do anything they want with their own property. Just because it's a
> newspaper does not make it a public utility, and there is NO OBLIGATION
> FOR UNBIASED REPORTING in a privately owned publication. So read them
> or do not, but don't use biased reporting as a platform for bigotry.
> Start your own blog. Heck, publish your own paper, with your own
> personal bias.
True, but the state has an obligation to ensure a free market place of
ideas. Clearly, Canada's anti-trust laws need bolstering.
>
> The monopoly on media outlets in your area is a matter for the Canadian
> government to address. Clearly you have access to other news sources, so
> the only justification for this post is to inform us all of your
> dissatisfaction with and dislike of the Jewish owners. To declare to
> all, "My god! They're Jewish!" As if that should somehow influence our
> opinions.
I think he did more that that. He showed their policies and the
selective nature of their reporting. It wouldn't make a difference if it
was pointing out that the Irish Independent's Catholic owners were
treading lightly on criticism of the Vatican, or the case he presents -
the relevant criterion is if it helps to explain the phene
omena under discussion, and I think it does. (I don't know whether the
Irish Independent does, in fact, go easy on the Vatican, but its owners
religion would be a relevant fact in reviewing how it covers that
'country').
Ian
Jim Gysin
Willow sent the following on 12/21/2009 5:16 AM:
> On Dec 20, 6:38 pm, Jim Gysin <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> I killfile idiots all the time,
>
> Gee, it must hurt when you have to do that to yourself...
Stop it. You're killing me. Did you come up with that yourself, or do
you have writers?
> So, writing that both sides (Israel and Palestine) have committed bad
> things and war crimes in five decades of battle is anti-semitic.
Oddly enough, I must be missing all of your 139-line posts that damn the
words and actions of the Palestinians. Go figure.
> You
> prove my point. You, and others like you, are so brainwashed that you
> cannot see grey and only see black and white.
And you've become so consumed by your own bigotry that you can't even
see reality anymore.
BTW, Mike is gone, but I'm still curious: how *do* you determine that
something is "disproportionate" if you're unable to define what is
"proportionate" in the first place? Or maybe you answered the question
and it just got eaten along with all of your Palestine-bashing posts.
Pogonip
Lenny Bruce suggested midgets. Started a rumor that they were
responsible for removing all those tags that say, "Do not remove."
--
Joanne
stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth.milky-way.com
http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/
Willow
"But this is the dividing line for me. What purpose does it serve to
identify the owners by religion? Is it supposed to be more or less
understandable that they have a bias?"
Both Lord Black and Israel "Izzy" Asper have made it very public that
they are Jewish, support Jewish foundations, and are justly proud of
their Jewish heritage. They put those wheels in motion, as any reader
of Canadian newspapers can well confirm.
They have also made their personal bias very public, through their
newspapers and in many other public statements. They have fired
reporters and writers and editors for publishing anything that might
be slightly anti-Israel. I stress that for Western Canada, this *is*
the media normally available to most folks.
Now, please advise. The statements made by me are facts, not opinion
or supposition, They are not made with malice or evil in mind. Is
it now anti-semitic to comment when that a person who identifies as
Jewish in public and who in public states the objective of his media
interests is to support Israel . I would equally comment if the word
Jewish was replaced with Catholic or Muslim in these circumstances.
Do you have a problem with stating facts? Perhapw you simply do not
know the nature of the public display by both Black and Asper - in
that, I give you the benefit of the doubt. IT is not the statement of
mine that these owners have a bis - it is their own very public
statements and actions. When you state "Or is it supposed to be, as
it appears that you mean to imply, that their religion gives their
actions a taint they would otherwise not have?" They themselves have
on many occasions confirmed that their papers are expected to follow a
specific bias. That is not my surmise, it is their statements. I am
not implying one bit - I am paraphrasing their own words.
Is the fact that Al Jazeera Muslim not to be mentioned? Applying your
logic that would be the case. Dear me - antiMuslim, eh? Black and
Asper both made their religion a very public matter,
Willow