Anne Parillaud from _Nikita_
H. Seung
Does anyone have a listing of the movies actress Anne Parillaud
(from _Nikita_) have performed in?
Please e-mail since I do not read the news often.
Merci
--
H. Seung hse...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu 3820 Locust Walk #876
University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104
Jean-Noel MOYNE
Juste une question comme ca, est-ce qu'il y a des gens ici qui savent
si Nikita est un succes aux US, maintenant qu'il y est a l'affiche.
Tous les Americains (et aussi Francais) que j'envoie aller voir le
film me disent tous qu'ils ont beaucoup aime. Ici dans le coin, le film
n'est pas sorti dans beaucoup de salles, mais il est toujours a l'affiche,
apres un mois et quelques.
Mais comment ca se passe dans le reste des US ? Est-ce que ce film
est en train de devenir comme Betty Blue (37.2 le Matin) ? Ou alors est-ce
que c'est juste un succes d'estime. Dans tous les cas, le film a eu un bon
echo de la part des critiques. Mais est-ce que quelqu'un en sait plus.
Enfin tout ca, c'est juste pour savoir si finalement les Americains se
rendent compte qu'ils ne sont pas les seuls sur terre a faire de bon films
(ou meme a faire des films tout court).
Et si vous voulez aller voir un bon film Americain, allez voir
"reversal of fortune", ca vaut le coup.
JNM
Translation: Does anybody know if Nikita is a succes here ? Or is it just
a sort of 'underground' succes ?
---
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
JNM: jnm...@lbl.gov - The postmaster allways pings twice (soon
in your mailbox!)
giac...@haley.ecn.purdue.edu
>English version at the end, since it's a cross-posting
Tu mets des sous-titres ?
Je n'ai pas encore vu Nikita (quoique, ca fait deja quelques semaines qu'il
est a Chicago au cine' Fine Arts, apre`s presque deux mois d'annonce),
mais j'en ai lu les critiques, francaises comme americaines. Depuis
Subway, j'ai aussi un petit faible pour Besson.
> Tous les Americains (et aussi Francais) que j'envoie aller voir le
>film me disent tous qu'ils ont beaucoup aime. Ici dans le coin, le film
>n'est pas sorti dans beaucoup de salles, mais il est toujours a l'affiche,
>apres un mois et quelques.
>
> Mais comment ca se passe dans le reste des US ? Est-ce que ce film
>est en train de devenir comme Betty Blue (37.2 le Matin) ? Ou alors est-ce
>que c'est juste un succes d'estime. Dans tous les cas, le film a eu un bon
>echo de la part des critiques. Mais est-ce que quelqu'un en sait plus.
>
> Enfin tout ca, c'est juste pour savoir si finalement les Americains se
>rendent compte qu'ils ne sont pas les seuls sur terre a faire de bon films
>(ou meme a faire des films tout court).
Qu'est-ce qu'un bon film ? Un film avec une bonne dose d'hemoglobine,
de coups de poings et de la flingue ? Dans ce cas, oui, il semblerait que
Nikita soit enfin un bon film, et que c'est pour cela qu'il marche aux US.
37,2 (Betty Blue) avait une histoire qui ne faisait pas dans la pure'e
non plus. Ca avait surement interresse' les amateurs de sensations
fortes et d'angoisse devant l'ecran. Beneix n'y avait pas ete avec
le dos de la main.
Neanmoins, je fais confiance a` Besson. Il sait faire un film, mais j'ai
peur que ses qualite's restent inapercues ici. Paradoxalement, le Grand Bleu
(film de Besson egalement) avait ete un bide aux E.U, et avait ete descendu
par la critique. Je dis paradoxalement, parce que Besson voulait se
"faire" le marche' americain avec ce film: version originale en anglais,
Rosana Arquette jouant la petasse sentimentale pour attirer l'amerloque
qui ne peut se passer de ce genre de role, mais, manque de bol, ca
avait bien echoue': l'amerloque n'aime pas l'interrogation metaphysique
et les films sans un scenario clair comme un discours de G. Bush sont voue's a`
l'e'chec en ce pays. Besson a du comprendre la lecon depuis.
Donc, pour repondre a` ta question, Jean-Noel, oui, il semblerait
que les ricains ne soient plus les seuls a` savoir faire un film genre
"Dead Shot", mais Nikita aurait quelque chose en plus qui ferait que beaucoup
semblent etre pret a` endurer la torture des sous-titres "internationaux"
(mais peut-etre est-ce que ce public ne lit meme pas les dialogues,
ou bien ne s'interressent qu'aux onomatope'es), et voir Nikita, celle
dont le nom rime avec une decharge de revolver.
--
Jos Stam
> Qu'est-ce qu'un bon film ? Un film avec une bonne dose d'hemoglobine,
>de coups de poings et de la flingue ? Dans ce cas, oui, il semblerait que
>Nikita soit enfin un bon film, et que c'est pour cela qu'il marche aux US.
D'accord il y a beaucoup de sang. Mais le film est tres different de ce que
l'on voit d'habitude de ce cote ci de l'Atlantique. Les acteurs sont plus
humains (i.e., ont des emotions). De plus l'amant de Nikita dans le film
n'est pas un de ces "macho standard" que l'on voit dans tous les film
americains. Les scenes de violence sont tres visuelles: on ne cache rien.
Dans la plupart des films americains les scenes de violences ressemblent
plutot a des entrainements pour cascadeurs.
Bref, j'ai bien aime ce film. De plus ils ont la politesse ici a Toronto
de laisser le film en version originale. En est-il de meme aux US?
Ciao,
Jos
nod sivad
>si Nikita est un succes aux US, maintenant qu'il y est a l'affiche.
>
I can't remember the last subtitled film that was successful in
America. The majority of Americans won't go to see subtitled
films. I doubt if _Nikita_ is showing in many middle America
theaters. They're too busy watching _Rocky n_.
I live in a highly populated area, and still have to drive 20 miles
to see movies like this.
me
Jeff Leyser
!!English version at the end, since it's a cross-posting
!!
[ *15* line of french deleted ]
!!
!! JNM
!!
!!Translation: Does anybody know if Nikita is a succes here ? Or is it just
!!a sort of 'underground' succes ?
I never new french was such a wordy language..............
--
Jeff Leyser je...@NCoast.ORG
Vince Mous
>> Juste une question comme ca, est-ce qu'il y a des gens ici qui savent
>>si Nikita est un succes aux US, maintenant qu'il y est a l'affiche.
>I can't remember the last subtitled film that was successful in
>America.
Et Cyrano? N'a-t-il pas tourne a travers les Etats-Unis?
>The majority of Americans won't go to see subtitled
>films.
C'est dommage, mais tu ne connais peut-etre pas les cinemas repertoire. On
y montre une beaucoup plus grande proportion de films sous-titres (plus grande
que 0, tout au moins).
> I doubt if _Nikita_ is showing in many middle America
>theaters. They're too busy watching _Rocky n_.
>I live in a highly populated area, and still have to drive 20 miles
>to see movies like this.
OK, d'acc, les Americains ne vont pas voir des films sous-titres. Les
anglophones au Canada le font, par contre. (Une difference culturelle!)
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Peter Reiher
>In article <1991May2.1...@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> rei...@onyx.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Peter Reiher) writes:
>>It's worth noting that Europeans are not always such snobs about dubbing.
>
> I must agree. I think that not dubbing any foreign flims in the
>US is a major error, or a protectionist measure.
Personally, I prefer my foreign films subtitled, rather than dubbed. Almost
never will the dubbing actors approach the performance given by the original
performers. Even if the original actor does the dubbing, only if he or she
is fluent in the language does the performance really come through. Generally,
I'd rather miss a bit of the literal sense of the dialog than lose the
performances. I know a bit of Spanish, and can usually follow the dialog in
Spanish language films if I concentrate. I haven't noticed any really
terrible omissions from the subtitles in those films. (And dubbing is
subject to the same translation problems subtitles are, worse, really, since
you need to do a reasonable job of matching the translated utterances to the
length and general mouth shapings of the original if you don't want the
result to look silly.)
I don't really know any French, so I can't claim to have truly understood
what your article was saying once you switched into that language, but I
get the impression that you think not dubbing foreign films is a protectionist
measure. If this is indeed your view, I think you are wrong. In the first
place, there is absolutely no law in the U.S. requiring, or even favoring,
subtitling over dubbing. In the second place, the film industry is filled
with the most money-grubbing of all Americans, with the possible exception of
lawyers (a movie studio lawyer is an appalling moral concept), so I
sincerely doubt that the studios are giving up major profits just to keep
those foreign films out. A third reason is expense. The profit margin on
foreign language films is low in the U.S. If you subtitle, you pay a
translator and a subtitling company - dirt cheap. If you dub, you pay a
translator, a sound company, and a bunch of actors - not dirt cheap. Unless
an English soundtrack is going to attract a lot more people, it's not worth
it. Will Godard in English really bring in many more customers than Godard
subtitled? Probably not. A fourth reason is that, to a large extent,
stars sell pictures in the U.S. Most U.S. moviegoers don't know who Gerard
Depardieu, Phillipe Noiret, Marcello Mastroianni, Carmen Maura, or even
Toshiro Mifune are. Since, from the point of view of a U.S. audience, few
foreign films have stars in them, they are hard sells, all language problems
aside.
I see a lot of films, both foreign and U.S. I can think of no more than a
handful, perhaps two or three a year, that would have made lots and lots of
money in the U.S. if they had been made in English. There are certain French
comedies that would do well (like "Three Men and a Cradle" and "Cousin
Cousine"), Hong Kong makes some credible action films that might play well in
English, and once in a while one sees a film from an unlikely source that
would do well. (Leaving aside the fact that few Americans care about any
history in non-English speaking countries, I saw a Bulgarian film last year
that had everything that a historic epic needs to succeed in the U.S.) Some
dramas like "Jean de Florette" would do well in the U.S. Some of Kurosawa's
films might have been big hits. But the bulk of the foreign language films
shown in the U.S. were not destined to make lots of money, no matter what
their language. There is a limited audience in the U.S. for films of the type
made by Fellini, Bergman, Wenders, Godard, Itami, or Kaurismaki. (Strong
evidence in favor of the last of these is the limited gross of "Leningrad
Cowboys go America", much of which was in English. His English language
film "I Hired a Contract Killer" is nearly certain not to make much money
in the U.S., no matter how hard a studio advertises it.)
Even the foreign directors who have worked in the U.S., such as Renoir and
Malle, produce characteristically different films than they made in their
home countries. Still the same sensibilities, but it's hard to imagine
Renoir having made some of the trashy potboilers in France that he made in
the U.S. Malle's French films seem to me to have a very different feel from
those he made in the U.S., working for the studios. They were working for
an audience with different expectations, so they made different films.
The real problem for foreign films in the U.S. is that most of the U.S. film
audience has a very limited idea of what a film should be like, and that
idea is completely formed by American studio films. Most foreign films that
are worth seeing do not resemble American studio films. So the majority
of the U.S. viewing audience will reject them. The fact that these films
are subtitled, rather than dubbed, definitely doesn't help, since you need
practice with reading subtitles to keep track of the image and the words.
But the major reason is the films' content, not their method of presentation.
If any country suffers from the U.S.'s lack of interest in foreign films,
it's got to be France. They produce many more "Hollywood-like" films of
quality than any other country I'm familiar with, and would, presumably,
have more to gain from an opening up of the U.S. market. Language and
trivial cultural barriers aside, there could probably be one to two highly
successful French films in U.S. release each year.
Peter Reiher
rei...@onyx.jpl.nasa.gov
. . . cit-vax!elroy!jato!jade!reiher
Peter Reiher
>>si Nikita est un succes aux US, maintenant qu'il y est a l'affiche.
>
>I can't remember the last subtitled film that was successful in
>America. The majority of Americans won't go to see subtitled
>films. I doubt if _Nikita_ is showing in many middle America
>theaters.
"Cinema Paradiso". Not so long ago. Of course, it depends on what you mean
by success. The people who released "Cinema Paradiso" made a nice amount of
money off it, given that they only had to strike a small number of prints and
do a very modest amount of advertising. On the other hand, its total U.S.
gross was considerably less than $20 million, about the point at which the
average American film is considered a success.
Many good foreign films make modest profits in the U.S. every year. Breakout
successes, however, are extremely rare. The basic reason is subtitling,
as you said. Most Americans won't go to the trouble to read the subtitles.
A second reason, though, is that most foreign films released in the U.S. are
more sophisticated and cutting edge than the typical Hollywood film. Godard
can make his films in English and they still won't do well in the U.S., as
American viewers want more of the same, really, not anything that challenges
them or forces them to rethink what a movie is about. A few French comedies,
and, nowadays, some of the Hong Kong action films, are probably the only
foreign language films that stand much chance of hitting it big in the U.S.,
even if dubbed.
It's worth noting that Europeans are not always such snobs about dubbing.
When I was in Germany, just about all the American films showing there were
dubbed, and practically everything shown in Italy is dubbed. Personally,
I think they're wrong about dubbing, from an artistic point of view, but one
major component of the success of American films in many foreign lands is that
they dub them without thinking twice.
> They're too busy watching _Rocky n_.
"Rocky V" flopped. Time to come up with a new object of derision for those
trying to put down American commercial film. I nominated the inevitable
"Home Alone II", likely to be followed closely by "Home Alone III: Kevin's
Revenge", "Home Alone IV" (Kevin's parents are thrown in jail for child
neglect, but the state child support agency also forgets about Kevin and leaves
him - HOME ALONE. Kevin breaks his parents out, and there is a heartwarming
reunion.), etc.
giac...@haley.ecn.purdue.edu
In article <1991May2.1...@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> rei...@onyx.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Peter Reiher) writes:
> Personally,
>I think they're wrong about dubbing, from an artistic point of view, but one
>major component of the success of American films in many foreign lands is that
>they dub them without thinking twice.
Give me a break concerning the "artistic point of view". Don't tell me
that the huge american audiences are any worried about this last point,
and the potential losses in "artistic quality" incurred by dubbing;
hence making the opposition to dubbing on the american market mostly
a monopolistic issue enforced by Hollywood companies and and distributors.
--
giac...@haley.ecn.purdue.edu
>When I was in Germany, just about all the American films showing there were
>dubbed, and practically everything shown in Italy is dubbed. Personally,
>I think they're wrong about dubbing, from an artistic point of view, but one
>major component of the success of American films in many foreign lands is that
>they dub them without thinking twice.
I must agree. I think that not dubbing any foreign flims in the
US is a major error, or a protectionist measure. Given the very approximate
quality of subtitles usually chopping off dialogues and not translating lots of
things, I think that, given that, anyway, american audiences will not
understand anything to a spoken foreign language, I think that a film
like Nikita or others would be worth dubbing. I saw a few French serie
noir movies of the 70's dubbed in English, on video, and it was, I believe,
much more approchable by americain audiences than if it had been subtitled.
One of them was "Il faut tuer Birgitt Haas" avec Philippe Noiret. A priori,
je croyais impensable de vouloir doubler la voix de Philippe Noiret, mais
en fin de compte, ca passait bien. Je crois que la qualite' du doublage est
importante. Si le doublage est bien fait, la plupart des spectateurs
ne s'en apercevront pas, ou difficilement. A mon avis, cette opposition au
doublage aux E.U. est surtout une mesure protectioniste, et personne ne
veux vraimment en prendre la peine, ni acquerir l'experience de faire
le doublage d'un film e'tranger proprement.
Et que pensez-vous d'avoir vu le scandale de voir le Grand Bleu en France,
double' en francais dans les salles de province !!!! Hein, on tourne
un film francais en anglais parce que ces #&&$$** d'americains ne
suporteraient pas, nous dit-on, le doublage, et on nous file la version
double'e en francais dans les salles francaises ? Ironiquement, le Grand
Bleu a fait flip aux E.U., donnant ainsi une bonne lecon a` Besson.
--
Doug Moran
[15 lines of French deleted]
>Translation: Does anybody know if Nikita is a succes here ? Or is it just
>a sort of 'underground' succes ?
Wow, I had no *idea* that French was such a long winded language!
--
Doug Moran | Subgenius beach party, subgenius beach party
pyramid!ctnews!zip!dougm | Subgenius beach party, subgenius beach party;
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giac...@haley.ecn.purdue.edu
>Personally, I prefer my foreign films subtitled, rather than dubbed. Almost
>never will the dubbing actors approach the performance given by the original
>performers. Even if the original actor does the dubbing, only if he or she
>is fluent in the language does the performance really come through. Generally,
What about the (numerous) films were the diction of the actor is
by far secondary to the plot of the film ?
>I'd rather miss a bit of the literal sense of the dialog than lose the
>performances. I know a bit of Spanish, and can usually follow the dialog in
You may not generalize, it depends on the film. Although I haven't seen
it, I'd believe that, Nikita, which is the starter of this discussion,
would gain more than it would lose on the US market by being dubbed
without letting people know it. IF the dubbing is of good quality, only a few
connoisseurs will actually notice it.
>Spanish language films if I concentrate. I haven't noticed any really
>terrible omissions from the subtitles in those films. (And dubbing is
You just said you know "a bit of spanish". How can you judge ?
>subject to the same translation problems subtitles are, worse, really, since
No, you can listen to much more text than you can read. I major grief I often
have is that, often sub-titles cut-off or simplify dialogues. For a thriller,
or a graphic movie, I don't think it is so good to constantly divert the
viewer's eyes form the images to the sub-titles. Also, it makes
the film much less enjoyable or relaxing. A subtitled film can
only be an intellectual film. A subtitled film will hardly divert its audience.
>you need to do a reasonable job of matching the translated utterances to the
>length and general mouth shapings of the original if you don't want the
>result to look silly.)
What is your exp[erience with dubbed movies ? None ? When StarWars was
shown worldwide, always dubbed, it did not look that silly so, please,
don't be so strongly prejudiced. If US movies were to be shown sub-titled
on their foreign markets, they would lose almost all their audience at
once. Dubbing, when it is properly done, does not make them any more silly.
[]
>The real problem for foreign films in the U.S. is that most of the U.S. film
>audience has a very limited idea of what a film should be like, and that
>idea is completely formed by American studio films. Most foreign films that
>are worth seeing do not resemble American studio films. So the majority
>of the U.S. viewing audience will reject them. The fact that these films
>are subtitled, rather than dubbed, definitely doesn't help, since you need
>practice with reading subtitles to keep track of the image and the words.
>But the major reason is the films' content, not their method of presentation.
You may be right. There's certainly not a single factor, dubbing a movie
may not be sufficient, but it is certainly a requirement for hitting
a large market in any country, including the US. In the case of a movie like
Nikita, the sub-titles certainly limits its success to the very small
minority of "enlightened" viewers who "accept" to watch a sub-titled
movie. I know cores of peoples around here who would like to see it, but
who won't BECAUSE it is sub-titled, and I think they are not the kind
of people who would be bothered by the loss of "artistic quality"
incurred by the dubbing.
--
Hans Huttel
>It's worth noting that Europeans are not always such snobs about dubbing.
>When I was in Germany, just about all the American films showing there were
>dubbed, and practically everything shown in Italy is dubbed. Personally,
>I think they're wrong about dubbing, from an artistic point of view, but one
>major component of the success of American films in many foreign
>lands is that they dub them without thinking twice.
And the cause of a major problem. In European countries where
English-language films are dubbed (Italy, Germany, the USSR, France)
most people do not get the opportunity to spoken English. And by a
symmetry argument most native English-speakers (Britons, U.S.
Americans etc.) seldom get to hear a foreign language.
So much for the "international understanding through dubbing" crusade :-(
--
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- Nikita (1989), Luc Besson,
- Quelle heure est-il (1989), EttoreScola,
- Juillet en septembre (1987), Sebastien Japrisot,
- Le battant (1983), Alain Delon,
- Pour la peau d'un flic (1981), Alain Delon,
- Patricia, un voyage pour l'amour (1980), Hubert Frank,
- Girls (1979), Just Jaeckin,
- Ecoute voir (1978), Hugo Santiago,
- L'Hotel de la Plage (1977), Michel Lang,
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Evelyn C. Leeper
> In article <1991May2.1...@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> rei...@quartz.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Peter Reiher) writes:
> >Personally, I prefer my foreign films subtitled, rather than dubbed. Almost
> >never will the dubbing actors approach the performance given by the original
> >performers.
>
> shown worldwide, always dubbed, it did not look that silly so, please,
> don't be so strongly prejudiced. If US movies were to be shown sub-titled
> on their foreign markets, they would lose almost all their audience at
> once. Dubbing, when it is properly done, does not make them any more silly.
Well, I suspect that Peter Reiher has seen more dubbed films than most
people have seen English-language films, but rather than that argument,
let me point out that for people in the United States, their first
experience with dubbing was probably watching Japanese monster movies
(in theaters in my generation, and on television in younger
audiences). The dubbing in such films as MYSTERIANS and GODZILLA was,
shall we say, less than perfect, and led to the great take-off in
ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES where everyone's words match their lips
except those of the Japanese scientist.
Now, dubbing has improved, and I think in some cases is better than
subtitling. For one thing, it makes movies available to the illiterate
or semi-literate, a growing segment of the population. One simply
would never subtitle a children's movie; dubbing is a necessity.
Dubbing also makes movies with half-way decent dialogue more accessible
to the visually impaired, and that includes all those of us who can't
read those small letters from the back of the auditorium. (In fact,
PBS now has a second audio track that does a running commentary on the
visuals for the visually impaired; an example would be, "A woman enters
from the right and crosses to the desk. She picks up a piece of
paper.")
That said, I'd still rather see a subtitled film. I am fortunate
enough to be able to read the subtitles from where I usually sit (and
if they're yellow subtitles, or black-bordered, they are much more
readable), and I like hearing the original language. Sometimes I
recognize a few words; sometimes I learn a few words. The dubbed
version of DAS BOOT was great, but the subtitled version let me hear
them say "scheisshaus" instead of the translation "head"--a major
difference in tone, in my opinion.
Evelyn C. Leeper | +1 908 957 2070 | att!mtgzy!ecl or e...@mtgzy.att.com
--
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Mr. Vegomatic, 1988
> In article <1991May2.1...@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
> rei...@onyx.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Peter Reiher) writes:
> [ stuff deleted ]
> >It's worth noting that Europeans are not always such snobs about dubbing.
> >When I was in Germany, just about all the American films showing there were
> >dubbed, and practically everything shown in Italy is dubbed. Personally,
> >I think they're wrong about dubbing, from an artistic point of view, but one
> >major component of the success of American films in many foreign
> >lands is that they dub them without thinking twice.
>
> And the cause of a major problem. In European countries where
> English-language films are dubbed (Italy, Germany, the USSR, France)
Huh? What are you talking about? I personally have yet to see an American
movie dubbed in France. I saw 'West Side Story' in Paris (in 1982). I saw
'Rocky 3', 'Baby', 'License To Kill' (the last James Bond movie), 'Working Girl'
'Karate Kid 2' in Thonon-les-bains (a 30,000 residents town located on the
French side of Lake Geneva, 30 kms away from Geneva and 9kms away from
Evian-les-bains where the famous water comes from). I also saw '9.5 weeks',
'Razor's Edge' and 'Flasdance' in Caracas, Venezuela. All of these movies were
*NOT* dubbed. They were all subtitled. I almost forgot. I saw 'Look Who's
Talking' in Toulouse, France last summer and it was subtitled.
On the other hand, I saw only two French movies that were not dubbed in
the US. You can consider them as one since one is the sequel of the other.
They are 'Jean de Florette' and 'Manon des sources'. 'Jean de Florette'
even made to West Lafayetter, IN *subtitled* mind you.
I just realized that I did see American movies dubbed in French. These
were movies like 'The Lady and the Tramp', 'Cinderella', 'Snow White'
in other words, movies intended for kids. Most kids do not have a good
enough grasp of a foreign language to follow a movie in a foreign
language and they don't have the concentration necessary to read the
subtitles during the length of a movie.
> most people do not get the opportunity to spoken English. And by a
> symmetry argument most native English-speakers (Britons, U.S.
> Americans etc.) seldom get to hear a foreign language.
>
> So much for the "international understanding through dubbing" crusade :-(
>
> --
> Hans H\"{u}ttel, Office 1603 JANET: ha...@uk.ac.ed.lfcs
Marc Maschino
Michael G. Goldsman
>a sort of 'underground' succes ?
Here in Atlanta, La Femme Nikita is held over at the only theater showing
it, "The Screening Room" The theater is supposed to be getting the
50'th anniversary re-release of Citizen Kane but its being delayed
due to Nikita's poularity...
I just caught it last Saturday and it was great (the
theater was pretty crowded when I saw it...), though I'm not sure what
exactly happened at the ned of the movie...
Could someone please tell me?? I speak not un word of fraceis so
it'll have to be in english...
Was she Dead?? Was that purgatory or something like that??
I got into a big debate with a friend but he
was unconvinced...
help...
-Mike
Peter Reiher
>>Personally, I prefer my foreign films subtitled, rather than dubbed. Almost
>>never will the dubbing actors approach the performance given by the original
>>performers.
>What about the (numerous) films were the diction of the actor is
>by far secondary to the plot of the film ?
I'm more concerned with performances rather than diction. How an actor says
something is usually as important as what he says. The number of subtitled
films I've been confused by because they didn't translate all the dialog
are few. The number of dubbed films I've seen where the dubbed voice is
clearly inappropriate or mismatched to the rest of the performance are many.
>>I'd rather miss a bit of the literal sense of the dialog than lose the
>>performances. I know a bit of Spanish, and can usually follow the dialog in
>
>You may not generalize, it depends on the film.
True. You later question, based on my statement, how I can tell what I may
have missed. I know enough Spanish that I can usually follow the sense of
the dialog without subtitles, but subtleties may be lost on me. Of course,
losing subtleties in translation is the great problem with any form of
translation, so it would have to have been a pretty good translation for
dubbing to have done much more for me.
Not having seen "La Femme Nikita", I am in no position to comment on whether
it would be better off dubbed. As you admit you haven't seen it, either,
neither are you.
>>subject to the same translation problems subtitles are, worse, really, since
>
>No, you can listen to much more text than you can read. I major grief I often
>have is that, often sub-titles cut-off or simplify dialogues. For a thriller,
>or a graphic movie, I don't think it is so good to constantly divert the
>viewer's eyes form the images to the sub-titles.
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have learned the trick of reading the subtitles
without fully switching my attention from the image. So I don't miss the
images while reading the subtitles.
>Also, it makes
>the film much less enjoyable or relaxing. A subtitled film can
>only be an intellectual film. A subtitled film will hardly divert its audience.
Maybe not you, but it can divert me. I saw films like "Peking Opera Blues"
and "The Killer" subtitled. No one would accuse these films of
intellectualism. They're slam-bang action pictures, with fast pacing. The
subtitles caused me not one bit of trouble. Actually, in intellectual films
the nuances of what is actually said and the importance of every word is
much higher than in action films.
>What is your exp[erience with dubbed movies ? None ?
Not all that many. Only one or two hundred. Not counting the fact that
practically all Italian movies are dubbed. (Dubbing in the native language
with the original actors is, of course, a very different matter.) It's
not impossible to dub a film well, it's just difficult and expensive. Most
non-English language films are destined to make much less than $1 million in
the U.S., dubbed or subtitled. A good dubbing job costs an amount of money
that cuts into that million pretty heavily. A good subtitling job doesn't.
Therefore, the only films that will be well dubbed are those that are likely
to make lots and lots of money. ("Star Wars", of course, had a mighty good
chance of making back the dubbing costs of putting it in French, German,
Japanese, etc., given its performance in the U.S., Canada, and the U.K.)
The rest will either be well subtitled or poorly dubbed. Personally, I'd
rather see them well subtitled.
>You may be right. There's certainly not a single factor, dubbing a movie
>may not be sufficient, but it is certainly a requirement for hitting
>a large market in any country, including the US.
Let's consider a real case where it was tried both ways. "Das Boot", an
excellent German film about a U-boat during WW II, was originally released
in the U.S. subtitled. It did very well, by foreign film standards. "Das
Boot" was a fine film of suspense and action, so, suspecting that it might
play well for the broader American audiences, it was then dubbed and
rereleased. The dubbed version made some more money, probably more than
enough to pay for the dubbing, but hardly a real bonanza. This despite the
fact that all the critics agreed that "Das Boot" was an excellent
entertainment, that its audiences liked it, and that it had what seemed to
be a winning box office combination. There were a few factors working
against the film, but not many non-English language films are more likely
to appeal to broad American audiences than "Das Boot".
>In the case of a movie like
>Nikita, the sub-titles certainly limits its success to the very small
>minority of "enlightened" viewers who "accept" to watch a sub-titled
>movie. I know cores of peoples around here who would like to see it, but
>who won't BECAUSE it is sub-titled,
There is a limited audience for subtitled films. But it will pay for most
subtitled releases, and, if the film is good, will usually return the releaser
a profit. Most of that audience won't bother going to a dubbed film, because
the dubbing is generally poor. You lose them in search of a speculative
audience that would go to your film if only it weren't for those darned
subtitles. Experiments in the past have suggested that this supposed audience
rarely materializes in sufficient numbers to justify the expense. And that's
why the U.S. releasers generally subtitle, rather than dub.
timo pelkonen
>In article <1991May3.1...@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> giac...@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) writes:
>> What is your exp[erience with dubbed movies ? None ? When StarWars was
>> shown worldwide, always dubbed, it did not look that silly so, please,
Nice thing to hear that I'm not from World. First time I saw *Wars
was in a movie theatre (subtitles in Fi & Se), 2nd time on video
(subtitles in Fi).
>> don't be so strongly prejudiced. If US movies were to be shown sub-titled
>> on their foreign markets, they would lose almost all their audience at
>> once. Dubbing, when it is properly done, does not make them any more silly.
Try to convince someone from Ch or any Nordic country. It helps
to be able to read ;) People in Zurich got pretty upset
when I asked "Is this movie dubbed?". Answer: "We NEVER dub them".
IMHO voice is an important part of an actor/actress.
Eddie Murphy dubbed? No way.
If memory serves ~2a ago most movies shown in Paris were
dubbed. One exception was Kaurism{ki's Hamlet goes business.
The fact that the French audience didn't get all the jokes
makes me think that translation is not good for a movie.
Nondubbed gives a chance to hear & understand the nuances, too.
Dubbing stinks.
timo.p...@hut.fi = A-kansalainen Juppilasta
El{m{ on rei{ss{ rattoisaa - Ismo Alanko, Joensuu
Jean-Noel MOYNE
> > And the cause of a major problem. In European countries where
> > English-language films are dubbed (Italy, Germany, the USSR, France)
> ^^^^^^
>
> Huh? What are you talking about? I personally have yet to see an American
> movie dubbed in France. I saw 'West Side Story' in Paris (in 1982). I saw
> 'Rocky 3', 'Baby', 'License To Kill' (the last James Bond movie),
'Working Girl'
> 'Karate Kid 2' in Thonon-les-bains (a 30,000 residents town located on
the
> French side of Lake Geneva, 30 kms away from Geneva and 9kms away from
> Evian-les-bains where the famous water comes from). I also saw '9.5
weeks',
> 'Razor's Edge' and 'Flasdance' in Caracas, Venezuela. All of these
movies were
> *NOT* dubbed. They were all subtitled. I almost forgot. I saw 'Look Who's
> Talking' in Toulouse, France last summer and it was subtitled.
(beeeeeeep) !!! Wrong answer Mr Vegomatic !! (
_dubbed_ crowd goes 'ooohhhh!) I'm sorry you won't get the JackPot this
time, better luck next time. Common Jammie, spin the whee.. ( - click -)
"I'd better go to the theater now ..."
I've lived in France for the first 21 years of my life, and that was
untill a year ago. And believe me, I saw a *lot* of movies there.
I agree, it's much more common to see a subtitled movie (I'd
say, usually one third of the theaters will show the movies in 'V.O.'
(Version Originale) over Paris) you still have at least 2/3 of them
showing them dubbed !!!
Most of the American movies in France are saw in dubbed versions.
Some theaters will allways show the orginal version with subtitles, some
will show some dubbed, some subtitled if it's of some interest (like, look
who's talking, some theaters showed it with subtitles because bruce
willis's performance as the baby's voice would have gone away with the
dubbing. But _there was a dubbed version of look who's talking in France_
! They took a well known French actor (known voice) for Willis's
dubbing... It sounded lame from the small parts I heard.).
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to flame you, it's just that what
you said was plain wrong. It can happen (I'm sure I could do the same sort
of mistakes speaking about the states ! (-:), I just had to correct it.
JNM
Jean-Noel MOYNE
>
> Was she Dead?? Was that purgatory or something like that??
> I got into a big debate with a friend but he
> was unconvinced...
>
Naaaaw ... they just injected her some drug, and then they've taken her
in this spy-training facility (like the CIA, but the French version, you
know, the ones sunking Greenpeace ships in Oakland (no, not Oaktown bro ,
Oakland ... in New Zealand)). But she thinks they've just killed her
instead of sending her to jail (Death Sentence doesn't exist anymore in
France y'know). So when she wakes up, she doesn't know where she is. And
he tells her she's officialy dead and burried .. and that if she says no
to the governement ... she'll go right there, for good (allee 5 plot 30).
JNM
Tor Lillqvist
foreign films are *never* dubbed. Except animated stuff for children.
In Finland, we even have bi-lingual subtitles (Finnish and Swedish),
and I often find myself reading both, when I should concentrate on the
acting and the original Dialogue (if in English).
--
Tor Lillqvist,
working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland
Torbj|rn Pettersson IMD
>
> What about the (numerous) films were the diction of the actor is
> by far secondary to the plot of the film ?
>
In which case neither the film nor the actor would benefit from
being "dubbed".
> You may not generalize, it depends on the film. Although I haven't seen
> it, I'd believe that, Nikita, which is the starter of this discussion,
> would gain more than it would lose on the US market by being dubbed
> without letting people know it. IF the dubbing is of good quality, only a few
> connoisseurs will actually notice it.
>
I would say that anybody would notice that the film is in English rather
than French. :-) Change the language of the film and you change the feeling,
the "taste" of it.
>
> No, you can listen to much more text than you can read. I major grief I often
That isn't true. I would say that you could read a text much faster than
its spoken. I can anyway.
> have is that, often sub-titles cut-off or simplify dialogues. For a thriller,
> or a graphic movie, I don't think it is so good to constantly divert the
> viewer's eyes form the images to the sub-titles. Also, it makes
> the film much less enjoyable or relaxing. A subtitled film can
> only be an intellectual film. A subtitled film will hardly divert its audience.
Ok, it's a bit annoying to have to divert your attention from the centre of
the picture to read the text. But for the rest...
Anti-American flame-thrower on:
In a country as large and whith a population as wast as America there one
must certanly find some people who is able to read,
even among the "illiterate majority". It's a certain sign of a narrow-
minded people that you consider other languages so awkward that you
don't even bother to listen to them.
Anti-American flame-thrower off.
The only movies that are dubbed in this country, Sweden that is, is Children's
movies and multi-national commersials. (Everybody seen the WashAndGo, right?)
Go and see Nikita, it's in French, go see Predator II, it's in English,
Ju Dou, it's in Chinese (or whatever, I don't understand it anyway.)
>
>>you need to do a reasonable job of matching the translated utterances to the
>>length and general mouth shapings of the original if you don't want the
>>result to look silly.)
>
> What is your exp[erience with dubbed movies ? None ? When StarWars was
> shown worldwide, always dubbed, it did not look that silly so, please,
What are you talking about? It wasn't always dubbed. It certanly wasn't in
this country.
> don't be so strongly prejudiced. If US movies were to be shown sub-titled
> on their foreign markets, they would lose almost all their audience at
> once. Dubbing, when it is properly done, does not make them any more silly.
Wrong again. The majority of the movies shown in Sweden is American.
> Nikita, the sub-titles certainly limits its success to the very small
> minority of "enlightened" viewers who "accept" to watch a sub-titled
> movie. I know cores of peoples around here who would like to see it, but
> who won't BECAUSE it is sub-titled, and I think they are not the kind
> of people who would be bothered by the loss of "artistic quality"
> incurred by the dubbing.
>
Again I don't understand what you are talking about. Are you suggesting
that your friends can't read? I that's not the problem I dont see what's
stopping them, besides utter lasiness.
Sorry about the harsh tone, (and the spelling), but some things just
pisses me off.
Greetings,
Tobbe
--
-----
Torbj|rn Pettersson Tel 08 - 676 51 70
Industri Matematik Data AB Email to...@imdpy1.im.se
Kungsgatan 8 ..!sunic!imtws3!imdpy1!tope
111 43 Stockholm
Ghislain J. ROY
> Naaaaw ... they just injected her some drug, and then they've taken her
>in this spy-training facility (like the CIA, but the French version, you
>know, the ones sunking Greenpeace ships in Oakland (no, not Oaktown bro ,
>Oakland ... in New Zealand)). But she thinks they've just killed her
So make that "Auckland , NZ"
'Cause Oakland c'est juste a cote de chez nous et je crois pas que ce soit un
port de relache pour Greepeace ;-)
-Ghislain "Y-a-bon les kiwis" Roy.
Cliff Olling
>If US movies were to be shown sub-titled on their foreign markets, they
>would lose almost all their audience at once. Dubbing, when it is properly
>done, does not make them any more silly.
Here in Japan, in the nearly two years I've been here, I've never seen a
first-run movie from the States shown dubbed. They are invariably shown
with the original English dialog with Japanese subtitles across the bottom
or vertically along right-hand side of the frame.
Amazingly, the titles seem to be done by scratching the print with a
straight pin, and jump around and change size in the frame and generally
look like a p*ss-poor job. The only movies I've seen with professional
Japanese subtitles I've seen have been from Korea :-).
And don't think they do a poor job because they want rush the movie into the
theatres. The introduction of movies here are routinely delayed 3-6 months
to wait for the peak audience periods, or sometimes until a previous movie
raises interest in a particular star, as with Pretty Woman->Sleeping with the
Enemy.
--
Clifford Olling Japan National Oil Corporation $@@PL}8xCD(J
Technology Research Center $@@PL}3+H/5;=Q(J Chiba City, Japan
oll...@jnoc.go.jp $@KkD%K\6?1X(J 24hrs/day=>81+472-73-5831
Cisco's Buddy
} In article <1991May3.153058.7095> giac...@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) writes:
}} If US movies were to be shown sub-titled on their foreign markets, they
}} would lose almost all their audience at once. Dubbing, when it is properly
}} done, does not make them any more silly.
About 99% of the Japanese laserdiscs that I've seen (that is, Japanese
disc releases of foreign movies, whether American/British, French, Russian,
German, or whatever) are subtitled in Japanese rather than dubbed.
On the other hand, when I was in Salzburg, Austria for a month about 20
years ago, just about every "foreign" film or TV show I saw was dubbed.
I can tell you that it's pretty bizarre to see American Indians talking
German (though, when you think about it, it's not a lot stranger than their
speaking English).
--
"It flies like a truck." "Good. What is a truck?"
--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)
boyajian%ruby...@DECWRL.DEC.COM or ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian
giac...@haley.ecn.purdue.edu
You may have hit the right point. But, it is understandable that one
may want to go and see a film and do the least intellectual effort
while watching it. I do, sometimes ;-(, others do it more systematically.
I would say the large mass of box-office entrances, at least around here, goes
into un-intellectual movies, to get a large show-off of music,
images, violence, and clean sex. I believe subtitles could be
a hindrance at watching such films. Yet, they are usually among those
who make the most money on the American market (and often on the world market
as well).
(BTW, I did not say they were my friends, I just said I know them somehow
well :-))
I have been asked often enough when going out, or renting a video wether
the film would be sub-titled, and be refused a film because ... it is
subtitled. You should see the expression on their face. Not everybody
may want to be artzy or intellectual like us around here.
There are plenty of movie-buffs who can't watch a subtitled
movie because they find it too pe'nible. A subtitlted movie can be nice
when one understands SOME of the language (like English in Sweden), but
when one does not understand a single word in it, and have to rely on
the subtitles for the entirety of the dialogs, it makes it singularly
more difficult.
--
Gourdol Arnaud
In article <1991May4.1...@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> masc...@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Mr. Vegomatic, 1988) writes:
>movie dubbed in France. I saw 'West Side Story' in Paris (in 1982). I saw
>'Rocky 3', 'Baby', 'License To Kill' (the last James Bond movie), 'Working Girl'
>'Karate Kid 2' in Thonon-les-bains (a 30,000 residents town located on the
>French side of Lake Geneva, 30 kms away from Geneva and 9kms away from
>Evian-les-bains where the famous water comes from). I also saw '9.5 weeks',
>'Razor's Edge' and 'Flasdance' in Caracas, Venezuela. All of these movies were
>*NOT* dubbed. They were all subtitled. I almost forgot. I saw 'Look Who's
>Talking' in Toulouse, France last summer and it was subtitled.
Are you kidding? Do you often go in France or what?
Nearly *ALL* the americna movies ARE dubbed. The one exception being
_West Side Story_, but all the other movies you cited were released
dubbed in France. As for _9.5 weeks_, I really wonder. Did you
see it in English or in French? Because this French movie
was dubbed in English and released as _Betty Blue_, the french
title being _9 Semaines 1/2_.
Anyway, most of the american movies are released in France for
the general public dubbed. However, if you carefully look for
them, you can sometimes find little theater with the subtitled
version. However, this does not happen with all the movies,
some are released only in their dubbed version.
I guess you had been very (un?)lucky to always find this rare
subtitled version.
Arno.
--
/======================//==========================================/
/ Arnaud Gourdol. // On the Netland: Gou...@imag.fr /
/ // Via AppleLink: Gou...@imag.fr@INTERNET# /
/======================//==========================================/
Chris Cooke
> >have is that, often sub-titles cut-off or simplify dialogues. For a thriller,
> >or a graphic movie, I don't think it is so good to constantly divert the
> >viewer's eyes form the images to the sub-titles.
>
> Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have learned the trick of reading the subtitles
> without fully switching my attention from the image. So I don't miss the
> images while reading the subtitles.
You're not lucky, it's just a trick you pick up. I've never seen a
French film dubbed into English; here they're all subtitled.
I much prefer it that way. Dubbing (here at least) is incredibly
clumsy; subtitling is easy to follow, once you get the hang of it,
and you can hear all the emotion in the voice. Subtitling is
only difficult to read when there isn't a black background behind
the white subtitles, or when the text is far too large (as in
"Akira").
What I find distracting is when somebody's mouth doesn't move in
time to the speech.
--
-- Chris. c...@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (on Janet, c...@uk.ac.ed.lfcs)
Philippe Engrand
> Are you kidding? Do you often go in France or what?
> Nearly *ALL* the americna movies ARE dubbed. The one exception being
> _West Side Story_, but all the other movies you cited were released
> dubbed in France.
> As for _9.5 weeks_, I really wonder. Did you
> see it in English or in French? Because this French movie
> was dubbed in English and released as _Betty Blue_, the french
> title being _9 Semaines 1/2_.
Tu delires ma biche !
_9 1/2 weeks_ is an American movie with the gorgeous Kim Basinger
and Mickey Rourke. The French version is _9 semaines et 1/2_.
_37.2 le matin_ is a French movie starring the also gorgeous
Beatrice Dalle and Jean Luc Anglade. The American version
is _Betty Blue_.
> Anyway, most of the american movies are released in France for
> the general public dubbed. However, if you carefully look for
> them, you can sometimes find little theater with the subtitled
> version.
> However, this does not happen with all the movies,
> some are released only in their dubbed version.
It's true in most cities, but in Paris you can find
the two versions of almost any American movie. I'm sure
of that, because during the last 3 years, every American
movie I saw in Paris was subtitled.
> Arno.
--
.------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Philippe ENGRAND (eng...@nepjt.ncsu.edu) (919) 831-0954 |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
| " Quant a ces feroces soldats, je le dis, c'est pas pour cafter, |
| ben, y font rien qu'ameuter les keufs" |
|__________________________________________________________________|
Brian S. Lev
>> >No, you can listen to much more text than you can read. I major grief I often
>> >have is that, often sub-titles cut-off or simplify dialogues. For a thriller,
>> >or a graphic movie, I don't think it is so good to constantly divert the
>> >viewer's eyes form the images to the sub-titles.
I remember a movie we (my whole French class) were herded into back in high
school... it used relatively simple vocabulary and lots of slapstick humor,
and was subtitled. I'm a fast reader, and to this day I remember the film as
if it was IN ENGLISH, although I know otherwise. weeeird effect...
>> Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have learned the trick of reading the subtitles
>> without fully switching my attention from the image. So I don't miss the
>> images while reading the subtitles.
I seem to have picked this up as well, but I often find I'm distracted by a
bad job (technically) or great differences between what I read and what I hear
(assuming I know the language).
>What I find distracting is when somebody's mouth doesn't move in
>time to the speech.
Unfortunately, the only cases I can think of where this hasn't thrown me a
curve ball have been _television_ instead of in movies; the French-dubbed
version of Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" stands out in my mind as one of the best
jobs I've ever seen. (I lived in Brussels for a couple of years, and we were
lucky enough to get TV from 5 countries in a variety of languages.)
As a cute aside, the WORST dubbing job I ever ran into was also TV: the first
time "Star Trek" was on German television (ZDF, I think), Captain Kirk had a
high, squeaky voice and Sulu sounded like a basso profundo longshoreman... it
didn't last more that 3-4 weeks like that!
-- Brian
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Jesper Lauridsen
>} In article <1991May3.153058.7095> giac...@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) writes:
>}} If US movies were to be shown sub-titled on their foreign markets, they
>}} would lose almost all their audience at once. Dubbing, when it is properly
>}} done, does not make them any more silly.
>About 99% of the Japanese laserdiscs that I've seen (that is, Japanese
>disc releases of foreign movies, whether American/British, French, Russian,
>German, or whatever) are subtitled in Japanese rather than dubbed.
>On the other hand, when I was in Salzburg, Austria for a month about 20
>years ago, just about every "foreign" film or TV show I saw was dubbed.
>I can tell you that it's pretty bizarre to see American Indians talking
>German (though, when you think about it, it's not a lot stranger than their
>speaking English).
In Denmark all foreign movies are subtitled. I normally try to pay
attention to what the actors say than to the subtitles IF the movie
is in a (for me) understandable language. Subtitles are not annoying
for me.
Germans do dubb everything, and they do it good. As a side note: I once
saw a Woody Allen movie on german TV, it was made like a documentary
and the german dobbing were the same way as they dubbed real documentarys.
(A german speaker added without removing the normal (foreign) speech.
It enhanced the movie actually.
--
|Jesper Lauridsen | |
| Datalogisk Afdeling | "I have things to do and news to read" |
| Matematisk Institut | |
| Aarhus Universitet | - rors...@daimi.aau.dk |
Torbj|rn Pettersson IMD
>In article <TOPE.91M...@imdpy1.im.se> to...@imdpy1.im.se (Torbj|rn Pettersson IMD) writes:
>>>In article <1991May3.1...@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> giac...@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) writes:
...
>
> You may have hit the right point. But, it is understandable that one
>may want to go and see a film and do the least intellectual effort
>while watching it. I do, sometimes ;-(, others do it more systematically.
> I would say the large mass of box-office entrances, at least around here, goes
>into un-intellectual movies, to get a large show-off of music,
>images, violence, and clean sex. I believe subtitles could be
>a hindrance at watching such films. Yet, they are usually among those
>who make the most money on the American market (and often on the world market
>as well).
The problem must be that you started to dubb films in the first place.
Like I said, here in Sweden nothing is dubbed, (whith the few exeptions I
mentioned), and therefore noone expects it to be an intellectual effort to
watch them. And, like I said, if you can read, it is really no effort.
> There are plenty of movie-buffs who can't watch a subtitled
>movie because they find it too pe'nible. A subtitlted movie can be nice
>when one understands SOME of the language (like English in Sweden), but
>when one does not understand a single word in it, and have to rely on
>the subtitles for the entirety of the dialogs, it makes it singularly
>more difficult.
>--
Ok, I agree. Most people understand some English, and most people go
and see Hollywood movies. But I don't think that the language is the
problem. It's the origin of the picture. Most of my friends take for
granted that if the movie is from U.S.A. it's some kind of action,
and if it's from Europe it must be a really hevay intellectual film.
A more strange variant of this is "Peking opera blues". If you go
rent a Asian move on video, most people asume its some kind of
Karate/kung fu thing. But when they showed POB on the theatres in Sweden
it was a instant success among the intellectual clique. Funny world.
Greetings Tobbe
Michel Hafner
>In article <21...@imag.imag.fr> gou...@imag.imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) writes:
>
>
>> Are you kidding? Do you often go in France or what?
>> Nearly *ALL* the americna movies ARE dubbed. The one exception being
>> _West Side Story_, but all the other movies you cited were released
>> dubbed in France.
>
>> As for _9.5 weeks_, I really wonder. Did you
>> see it in English or in French? Because this French movie
>> was dubbed in English and released as _Betty Blue_, the french
>> title being _9 Semaines 1/2_.
>
> Tu delires ma biche !
>
> _9 1/2 weeks_ is an American movie with the gorgeous Kim Basinger
>and Mickey Rourke. The French version is _9 semaines et 1/2_.
>_37.2 le matin_ is a French movie starring the also gorgeous
>Beatrice Dalle and Jean Luc Anglade. The American version
Hugues
>is _Betty Blue_.
>
>
>> Anyway, most of the american movies are released in France for
>> the general public dubbed. However, if you carefully look for
>> them, you can sometimes find little theater with the subtitled
>> version.
>> However, this does not happen with all the movies,
>> some are released only in their dubbed version.
>
> It's true in most cities, but in Paris you can find
>the two versions of almost any American movie. I'm sure
>of that, because during the last 3 years, every American
>movie I saw in Paris was subtitled.
There is a difference between Paris and the rest of the country. In Paris you
can see every foreign film in original version with subtitles. Because "big"
films are started in many cinemas ( > 30 ) you have several cinemas showing the
original version and several a dubbed version. In other cities and in the
country you have more trouble seeing the original version. It is often not
shown.
The same difference exists in Switzerland. The big cities show always the
original version, sometimes a dubbed version is available in a second cinema
or for the first 2 shows of the day. In the country and in smaller cities
dubbed versions have a high percentage.
In Germany you always get the dubbed version. Only in big cities there is some-
times a cinema or two who dares to show the subtitled version.
In Scandinavia subtitling is also widespread.
I'm kind of interested in a list that explains the situation in every country.
If you are interested too, please mail me how it is in your country, so I can
compile the information and post it afterwards.
Thanks!
Michel Hafner
Howard Ship
after the first few minutes, and its good to hear the original
players' voices. Also, when I remember subtitled movies, I usually
forget the subtitles and remember the player's words in English.
--
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Kutluk Ozguven
Jeff Meyer
have one of those mutated, segmented brains that can watch the picture and
concentrate on the titles briefly while not missing the peformances. When
thinking of it, I don't remember looking "down" at the titles; more like a
brief shift of concentration to the words at the bottom. The performances
are still watched peripherally, and the "glance" is so brief as to not
interupt the action.
On the other hand, I buy a full-series pass to the Seattle Film Festival
every years (starts next week! -- drool...), so I get a lot of practice...
"Ah, well, I attended Juliard. I'm a graduate of
the Harvard Business School. I travel quite
extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and
had a pretty good time during that. I've seen THE
EXORCIST about 167 times, and it keeps gettin'
funnier EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT!!"
---
Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET: mori...@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP: {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft, hplsla}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
<*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
Eric Pouyoul
>Nearly *ALL* the americna movies ARE dubbed. The one exception being
>_West Side Story_, but all the other movies you cited were released
>dubbed in France. As for _9.5 weeks_, I really wonder. Did you
>see it in English or in French? Because this French movie
>was dubbed in English and released as _Betty Blue_, the french
>title being _9 Semaines 1/2_.
I saw it in France and in english.
>Anyway, most of the american movies are released in France for
>the general public dubbed. However, if you carefully look for
>them, you can sometimes find little theater with the subtitled
>version. However, this does not happen with all the movies,
>some are released only in their dubbed version.
>I guess you had been very (un?)lucky to always find this rare
>subtitled version.
I think that you're right for the french movie theater in the contry.
In Paris the things are quite different since the 80's. I would say
that almost 1/3 of the parisian movie theaters are showing V.O. movies.
But maybe there's more movie theaters in Paris than in the rest of
France !! ;-)
BTW, it's very rare to find a V.O. VCR tape in France. Maybe the
subtitles don't fit nicely on a TV screen ! Too bad.
Eric
---
Eric Pouyoul
Chorus Systemes / Unisys Network Computing Group - San Jose (CA)
Phone : +1 (408) 435-7699 E-Mail : pou...@Convergent.COM
Fax : +1 (408) 435-5303 or : er...@chorus.fr
David Kuder x2003
>say, usually one third of the theaters will show the movies in 'V.O.'
>(Version Originale) over Paris) you still have at least 2/3 of them
>showing them dubbed !!!
Thanks for the reminder. When I visited my sisters in Paris they
always made sure a movie was V.O. (I couldn't remember the term).
Although both are fluent in French, they preferred to get their minimum
dose of American from the movies.
Seeing "Hannah and Her Sisters" with French scrawled across the bottom
was the first time I found subtitles somewhat distracting.
Back to Nikita, the L.A. Times says that this is yet another film
to be remade in American. I don't know why they would bother with
it. Nikita is a pretty straight forward action thriller. I mean
by the time they're done Americanizing it, it'll be "Nicky" and star
Steven Seagal with the action taking place in those exotic locations
N.Y. and D.C.
--
David A. Kuder Looking for enough time to get past patchlevel 1*
415 438-2003 da...@indetech.com {uunet,sun,sharkey,pacbell}!indetech!david
* Seems I had to do some patching before I could post, hence the enormous
time lag