BASIC INSTINCT (Spoilers!) Who did who?
Craig Becker
Victim Killer
------ ------
Catherine's parents ??????
Berkeley professor ??????
Beth's husband ??????
The ex-rock star ??????
The IAD man ??????
Shooter's partner ??????
Odd thing about this movie is that of the 3 people I've talked
to who've seen it, none of us can agree on who killed who. It
seems like everytime someone comes up with a reasonable answer,
someone else finds something to shoot it down.
Craig
-- "To every man is given the Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
-- key to the gates of heaven; Internet: cra...@ot.austin.ibm.com --
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Virany Margaret Kreng
[ stuff deleted ]
>
>Odd thing about this movie is that of the 3 people I've talked
>to who've seen it, none of us can agree on who killed who. It
>seems like everytime someone comes up with a reasonable answer,
>someone else finds something to shoot it down.
>
>Craig
Have to agree with you there, Craig. The reason for this is... there is no
reason. Like you said, any reasonable answer will be shot down. Oh well.
This movie is so bad IMHO that I wouldn't waste any time trying to figure
out.
Virany
eab...@orion.oac.uci.edu
"Jack the Ripper was none other than the Loch Ness monster!"
"It's great to be young and insane."
raburn greg alan
I've given these a lot of thought, and you could argue any of these some other
way, but here are my opinions.
>Victim Killer
>------ ------
>Catherine's parents ??????
Catherine. While it could've been an accident, I
think she killed them. The fact that she wrote about
a kid blowing up his parents to see if he can get away
with it (although this book was written
AFTER the event, unlike the others), leads me to
suspect that she killed them.
>Berkeley professor ??????
Catherine. Ice picks are her style.
>Beth's husband ??????
Beth. It could've been any ordinary unsolved drive-
by killing, but we're led to suspect Beth, so I'll go
with my instincts.
I base my conclusions on these weak observations:
1) Every woman Catherine has slept with has been
a murderess.
2) Every man Catherine has slept with has died
(I'm assuming that Catherine had a
fling with her professor).
Therefore Beth, being the only known possible exception,
by the first rule must have murdered at least one
person. I know some people will disagree with me, but
that's my opinion.
>The ex-rock star ??????
Catherine. No doubt about this one.
>The IAD man ??????
Beth. '38's are her weapon (her husband died by one
also). She knew that Shooter had a confrontation with
the IA man (Nilson?) that day, and as far as we know
Catherine didn't. Why would Beth do it? I don't
think it was to frame Shooter, but instead was revenge
for betraying her trust by selling Shooter's files to
Catherine.
>Shooter's partner ??????
Catherine. No doubt about this one. Catherine meant
to frame Beth and get herself off the hook. The reason
Shooter (I've already forgotten his character's name!
Isn't that pathetic?) realized that his partner was
in danger was that he had read about the death of his
partner in the printout of Catherine's new book. No
one else, other than possibly the old lady, would have
read this. I doubt that the old lady was the killer,
since I believe the ice pick murders were all done by
the same person, and that was definitely no old lady
in the opening scene!
That what was so interesting about the final minutes:
Shooter knew Catherine was the killer and would
probably try to kill him (though not right then, or
else she'd get caught for sure), but he was still
sleeping (well... not quite SLEEPing...) with her!
... maybe she won't kill him: "Killing's not like
smoking; you can quit."
If she falls in love with him (pretty slim odds),
he might have a chance; she didn't kill her boxer
boyfriend... 'course he died anyway (I think if she
had killed the boxer, she would've written a book
about it).
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- "Legs" Raburn
"There were no flies on Frank that morning - after all why not?" - J. Lennon
Carey Kinoshita
>
>Victim Killer
>------ ------
>Catherine's parent
(Motive: some deep seated emotional
distress which ocurred early in Catherine's
Childhook which resulted in her hatred for
me, capacity to commit murder, and her sexual
orientation toward women [she was just toying
with Nick])
>Berkeley professor
Answer is Catherine
(Catherine's first ice-pick murder)
(Motive speculative, maybe somehow linked with
Catherine being infactuated with Elizabeth
and Elizabeth being in some of the professor's
classes)
>Beth's husband
Answer is Catherine
(After Catherine's boxer husband death, she moves
to Celines or however you spell that and meets
up with Elizabeth and has an affair which
some townsfolk notice. Something happens in their
lesbian relationship and the result is Catherine
shooting Elizabeth's husband. She used a gun instead
of an ice-pick so that the murdur at U.C. Berkeley
would not be linked)
>The ex-rock star
Answer is Catherine
(At this point in time, the IAD man is blackmailing
Catherine since he discovered that Catherine killed
Elizabeth's busband when doing a routine background
check on Elizabeth Gardener. Catherine thinks up
a scheme to frame Elizabeth and kill the AID man
using some poor pawn inside the police department.
She lands up writing a book to give her an alibi.
She then meets Nick and Gus for the first time in
the back of the beach house and decides to use
Nick to accomplish her dirty work. She checks into
his Nick's past and decides to write another book
as a pschycological ploy to entice Nick toward
forming a relationship with her. To frame Elizabeth,
she picks the ex-rock star who Elizabeth had met at
a christmas party. The christmas party was held by
a pschycologist who shares the same office with
Elizabeth in town)
>The IAD man
Answer is Catherine
(Catherine is informed of Nick's incident with
the AID man and decides the time is right and
blows him away with a 38 caliber handgun
which she intends to plant in Elizabeth's
apartment. She also uses this incident to
sway Nick closer to her)
>Shooter's partner
Answer is Catherine
(She finds out that Gus is looking for information
about her at U.C. Berkeley, calls up Gus, and
hires someone to leave a message on Elizabeth's
answering machine to meet him on the 4th floor
of that apartment. She kills Gus and leaves a
wig, ice-pick, and SFPD jacket which she bought
from the same person who supplied her Nick's file
[probably another AID officer] to frame Elizabeth.
Catherine next breaks into Elizabeth's apartment
again, replaces the tape out of the answering
machine, plants the gun, and plants the newspaper
clipping, etc.)
That's It. Paul Verhoven says in one of the
March issues of "Entertainment This Week"
that Nick will eventually get killed by Catherine.
Oh, concerning Roxy (Catherine's Lesbian Girlfriend)
she just get very jeolous every so often, but
not with the ex-rockstar. She is just put in to
complicate the plot and put some action in the
middle of the movie.
>
>Odd thing about this movie is that of the 3 people I've talked
>to who've seen it, none of us can agree on who killed who. It
>seems like everytime someone comes up with a reasonable answer,
>someone else finds something to shoot it down.
The killer is Catherine and Elizabeth Gardener is totally innocent.
The director Paul Verhoven has stated that Catherine is the murdurer
in one of the March issues of Entertainment This Week.
Afroditi Michailidi
>
>Victim Killer
>------ ------
>Catherine's parents ??????
>Berkeley professor ??????
>Beth's husband ??????
>The ex-rock star ??????
>The IAD man ??????
>Shooter's partner ??????
>
Spoilers (if you call my speculations spoilers, that is :-)
>Catherine's parents
Catherine. She wrote that book about the boy and his parents and even though
it was written (published?) after their accident that doesn't mean she hadn't
thought of it beforehand.
>Berkeley professor
This I have no strong opinion about. I would say it's Catherine because I
think Beth's killing instincts developed later on
>Beth's husband
Beth. She used him to obtain a new identity and get rid of Stone and when he
started being nosy or whatever she disposed of him
>The ex-rock star
Roxie. I imagine I'm in the minority with this one :-) but the way I see it is
that her jealousy had already developed. Furthermore, she used the method in
Catherine's book because she know it would provide an alibi for Catherine.
>The IAD man
Beth. He broke her trust by showing Shooter's file and he made Shooter very
angry -- and Beth was still in love with him.
>Shooter's partner
Catherine. I cannot believe the Beth would keep her hand in her pocket if she
were the murderess. And there's Catherine's book and her assertion that there
_must_ be a murder. A nice way to frame Beth too.
Well, there you have it. Shoot it down if you can :-)
Afroditi
*****************************************************
Warning: Graduate student -- overworked and underpaid
*****************************************************
George S Kardaras
>In article <1992Apr7.1...@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> cra...@ot.austin.ibm.com writes:
>>Can anyone fill in the question marks in the following?
>>
>>Victim Killer
>>------ ------
>>Catherine's parents ??????
>>Berkeley professor ??????
>>Beth's husband ??????
>>The ex-rock star ??????
>>The IAD man ??????
>>Shooter's partner ??????
>>
>
>Spoilers (if you call my speculations spoilers, that is :-)
>
>
>>Catherine's parents
>Catherine. She wrote that book about the boy and his parents and even though
>it was written (published?) after their accident that doesn't mean she hadn't
>thought of it beforehand.
Agree...
>
>>Berkeley professor
>This I have no strong opinion about. I would say it's Catherine because I
>think Beth's killing instincts developed later on
>
No idea, even though I think it was Catherine...
>>Beth's husband
>Beth. She used him to obtain a new identity and get rid of Stone and when he
>started being nosy or whatever she disposed of him
>
I doubt Beth killed him... it was Catherine for sure... she came back
to town... saw that Beth was involved with a man, and decided to kill
him, because she was in love(?) with Beth... besides, in that scene
where Douglas talks with the cop who knew about the case, the latter
said that it was speculated that Beth had a girlfriend who might had
done it...
>>The ex-rock star
>Roxie. I imagine I'm in the minority with this one :-) but the way I see it is
>that her jealousy had already developed. Furthermore, she used the method in
>Catherine's book because she know it would provide an alibi for Catherine.
>
No way!!!! The scene was clear!!! You could even see Catherine`s face...
It was her!! That`s for sure!!!
>>The IAD man
>Beth. He broke her trust by showing Shooter's file and he made Shooter very
>angry -- and Beth was still in love with him.
>
I think you`re right on this one, even though , there is the possibility
Catherine killed him: he offered her all she needed to know about the
Shooter, and it would be much better for her if she had him out of the way...
>>Shooter's partner
>Catherine. I cannot believe the Beth would keep her hand in her pocket if she
>were the murderess. And there's Catherine's book and her assertion that there
>_must_ be a murder. A nice way to frame Beth too.
>
Catherine for sure!!! Besides, she explicitly stated the death of Shooter`s
partner in the end of her novel...
>Well, there you have it. Shoot it down if you can :-)
>
How about the Shooter? Is he going to live or will he be Catherine`s
next victim? Who knows?
> Afroditi
>
>*****************************************************
>Warning: Graduate student -- overworked and underpaid
>*****************************************************
George S. Kardaras
I Shop therefore I AM!!
In article <1992Apr10.1...@spool.cs.wisc.edu> mich...@blondie.cs.wisc.edu (Afroditi Michailidi) writes:
>
>Catherine. I cannot believe the Beth would keep her hand in her pocket if she
>were the murderess. And there's Catherine's book and her assertion that there
>_must_ be a murder. A nice way to frame Beth too.
>
Yes, that was a perfect way to frame Beth but if Shooter or the
other cops were smart, they should have figured out that Catherine's
book about Shooter *hadn't* been published yet. She was just printing
it out on her printer at her home when Shooter read the part about
a partner being killed in her book. There was no way that Beth could
have read it to commit the exact murder described in Catherine's book.
Melinda
Quenby M Chunco
>In article <1992Apr7.1...@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> cra...@ot.austin.ibm.com writes:
>>Can anyone fill in the question marks in the following?
>>
>>Victim Killer
>>------ ------
>>Catherine's parent
> Answer is Catherine
>
> Answer is Catherine
>
> Answer is Catherine
>
> Answer is Catherine
>
>
> Answer is Catherine
>
> Answer is Catherine
>
I have a question here...who did Elizabeth kill?
Carey Kinoshita
Actually, I mean that the killer is Catherine. Elizabeth Gradener
is totally innocent and didn't kill no one. Poor thing that she is
the person who lands up with the blame for all those murders in
the movie.
Duner
>>>>Victim Killer
>>>>------ ------
>>>>Catherine's parent
>>> Answer is Catherine
>>>
>>>>Berkeley professor
>>> Answer is Catherine
>>>
>>>>Beth's husband
>>> Answer is Catherine
>>>
>>>>The ex-rock star
>>> Answer is Catherine
>>>
>>>
>>>>The IAD man
>>> Answer is Catherine
>>>
>>>>Shooter's partner
>>> Answer is Catherine
>>>
>Actually, I mean that the killer is Catherine. Elizabeth Gradener
>is totally innocent and didn't kill no one. Poor thing that she is
>the person who lands up with the blame for all those murders in
>the movie.
How do you know? I thought they both did the killing. I was pretty sure Beth
killed her husband, and the IAD man. Please explain why you think Cathy killed
everyone, and how you know.
--
=====================================================
= John Meseke email-j...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu =
= "Some gals like to kiss my face. Is it luck?" =
==============================-Les Claypool==========
Hardeep Johar
>car...@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Carey Kinoshita) writes:
>>>>>Victim Killer
Lots of detail on Catherine's victims (or is it Elizabeth)!
>
>How do you know? I thought they both did the killing. I was pretty sure Beth
>killed her husband, and the IAD man. Please explain why you think Cathy killed
>everyone, and how you know.
>
Please also explain why you care! The movie was so boring that I
could'nt care less who dun it. All I want is my $7.50 back.
Hardeep.
--
****************************************************************************
Hardeep Johar hjo...@rnd.stern.nyu.edu
(212) 998-4205
****************************************************************************
Carey Kinoshita
Well, I know because Paul Verhoven said so in the weekly magazine called
Entertainment Weekly (one of the March issues).
Also concerning why I could care to figure out who the murdurer is in
Basic Instinct, the reason is because I like this movie a lot, although
many of the hints were drowned out by the fast pace of the movie, but
I did like the cinematography and the music (although repetitous at times).
I feel the evidence in the movie doesn't contradict each other and I
think this movie was a very good suspence thriller.
Concerning Sharon Stone using body doubles, Sharon Stone appeared on
Dennis Miller's talk show and when asked "I guess that your bod that
we saw, right. You did not bring in one of those Julio Roberts body
doubles?" Sharon Stone replied that it was her bod and she did not
use any body doubles, but maybe she was told by the producers to lie
when asked that question.
Afroditi Michailidi
Spoilers
In article <1992Apr16.0...@news.Hawaii.Edu> car...@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Carey Kinoshita) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jpm5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Duner) writes:
>>car...@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Carey Kinoshita) writes:
>>>>>>Victim Killer
>
>Lots of detail on Catherine's victims (or is it Elizabeth)!
>
>>
>>How do you know? I thought they both did the killing. I was pretty sure Beth
>>killed her husband, and the IAD man. Please explain why you think Cathy killed
>>everyone, and how you know.
>
>Well, I know because Paul Verhoven said so in the weekly magazine called
>Entertainment Weekly (one of the March issues).
NOT! First off, if Verhoeven says "Catherine is the killer" that means she
is guilty of the 'main' murders i.e. the ex-rock star and Shooter's partner
not that she is responsible for _all_ the murders in their wake.
Second, I have read the statement in question and, though marked with a
spoiler in Entertainment weekly, it is far from conclusive, in my opinion.
Full transcript:
Hoping finally to clear things up, we let _Basic Instinct_
director Paul Verhoeven have the last word. "Yeah,
Catherine's probably the murderess. She's the devil and
she's going to kill him. And he'll burn in hell." So now
you know. Right?
Yeah, right. More like sarcasm than statement of guilt, to me.
Edward Peschko
>In article <1992Apr14.1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jpm5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Duner) writes:
>>car...@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Carey Kinoshita) writes:
>>>>>>Victim Killer
>Lots of detail on Catherine's victims (or is it Elizabeth)!
>>
>>How do you know? I thought they both did the killing. I was pretty sure Beth
>>killed her husband, and the IAD man. Please explain why you think Cathy killed
>>everyone, and how you know.
>>
Catherine killed everybody because of a single conversation that 'Shooter' and
Catherine have near the beginning. IE:
"Oh..... well what is your new book about then?"
"It is about a police detective."
"Yeah?"
"He falls for the wrong woman and she kills him."
~~~~~
In other words, Sharon Stone is the wrong woman, and 'Shooter' is a dead man
after the movie is over. The director was making AMPLE (read ridiculously
large helpings of) foreshadowing in this one... It is to his credit that
I was fooled for a small period of time during the middle of the movie.
(Hence the double play in 'BASIC Instinct'.)
>Please also explain why you care! The movie was so boring that I
>could'nt care less who dun it. All I want is my $7.50 back.
SEVEN FIFTY!!! UGH!
Ed
Carey Kinoshita
It seems to me that Paul Verhoeven's statement means that Catherine
is the murderer. Which in turns means that Beth Gardener is innocent.
P.S. Who do you think, Beth Gardener killed? I don't think she
killed anyone. Maybe lied a couple times, but did not kill anyone.
Lisa Koh
>>>>>>Victim Killer
>
> >Lots of detail on Catherine's victims (or is it Elizabeth)!
>
> >>
> >>How do you know? I thought they both did the killing. I was pretty
sure Beth
> >>killed her husband, and the IAD man. Please explain why you think
Cathy killed
> >>everyone, and how you know.
> >>
>
'Shooter' and
> Catherine have near the beginning. IE:
>
> "Oh..... well what is your new book about then?"
> "It is about a police detective."
> "Yeah?"
> "He falls for the wrong woman and she kills him."
> ~~~~~
>
> In other words, Sharon Stone is the wrong woman, and 'Shooter' is a dead man
> after the movie is over. The director was making AMPLE (read ridiculously
> large helpings of) foreshadowing in this one... It is to his credit that
> I was fooled for a small period of time during the middle of the movie.
> (Hence the double play in 'BASIC Instinct'.)
>
Uh, scuze me, but this still does not answer the person's question
about how you know for certain that Catherine killed Elizabeth's
husband and the Internal Affairs guy, because you don't. Period.
And why do you say that Shooter (Michael Douglas/Nick) is necessarily
dead after the movie?? To me, it looked like she spared Nick; this is
reflected in her book's revised ending of Shooter finding his dead
partner. Besides, she had and missed many opportunities to kill him.
Hope i haven't reiterated other people's theories; i haven't been
keeping up lately
hook 'em ~\/~
Lisa
Shane Sauby
would be the place to post it. Anyway, in the trailer and the dance scene there
is a techno-pop song played that I am desperatly trying to find. Without a
title or even an idea of who does it. This makes my search very difficult
(read: impossible!) So, if anyone out there knows who did this song, or
recognized it, or found a soundtrack with it on it, (supposedly its not on the
one released by the studio) let me know please. Thanx
SSS
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -BB
Edward Peschko
>hook 'em ~\/~
>Lisa
Uh... excuse me, but the whole MOVIE is a play on the words 'Basic Instinct',
and how the director can manipulate an audience. There is no way to prove one
way or the other that someone was guilty in a movie like this. Theories based
on 'physical evidence' are totally worthless because the director is in complete
control of what we see and hear -- and, after all, the whole thing is a fiction.
No -- the best arguments to make about these sort of things are
artistical. Does it make sense for a director to have the characters be one way
or the other? And, since this movie is in the tradition of the old detective
potboilers (although it warps the theme that 'the good always triumph in the
end) it only makes sense that there is going to be the 'innocent party' and
the 'guilty party'. If that is not enough, look at Beth's last words before she
dies:
"I love you, Nick".
Right then and there I knew she was either totally bullshitting the
audience (ie: guilty as all hell) or totally innocent (and he has just shot his
true love, and has made the wrong choice.). That is the only thing that makes
sense artistically, and plays along with all the other dichotomies we had been
getting so far. The ice pick at the end kinda eliminates the first possibility..
(incidentally, I don't remember her changing the ending of her book, but maybe
that was just me. I am not going to pay another $6.00 to find out.)
Ed
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Peschko "Gentlemen! You can't fight in here....
pes...@mermaid.micro.umn.edu This is the WAR room!!!!!" -Peter Sellers
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