FRIED GREEN TOMATOES question
Lynn Walker
Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
Sorry if this has been discussed before. Thanks.
Lynn
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Lynn Walker | "Stuck in the
wal...@ingres.com | Middle with You"
Toronto, Canada |
_Reservoir Dogs_
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
PICL account_25
>This is probably fairly obvious, but I'd like confirmation on this. Is
>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
>
>Sorry if this has been discussed before. Thanks.
>
> Lynn
I saw (and enjoyed) the movie and I am pretty sure they are one and the same.
I did not read the book either, but I think you are right! :-)
Elisa B. Hanson pic...@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu
"The chief function of the body is to carry the head around."
--Albert Einstein
Michael S Ritchie
>>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
>>
>
>I did not read the book either, but I think you are right! :-)
In the book, it's made fairly clear that they are not the same person,
but in the movie, it is at least ambigious, at most, made fairly
clear that they *are* one and the same. I've had this argument for
months with my SO who read the book first and doesn't buy my
reading of the movie (that is, that Ninny and Idgie are the same).
Any other opinions??
--
Michael Ritchie mrit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"There is only one thing in the world worse than
being talked about, and that is *not* being talked about."
--Oscar Wilde
Elizabeth Rust
>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
>
>Sorry if this has been discussed before. Thanks.
>
> Lynn
>
No, they're not the same, though the movie does tend to convey that impression.
In general, the movie is a fairly good depiction of the book's story and characters,
as book-to-movie translations go.
Beth Rust
Digital Equipment Corp.
Nashua, NH
ru...@dssdev.enet.dec.com
Heidi E. Schlenker
>This is probably fairly obvious, but I'd like confirmation on this. Is
>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
>
are not the same people.
Heidi
Heidi E. Schlenker
>>>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>>>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>>>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
>>I saw (and enjoyed) the movie and I am pretty sure they are one and the same.
>>I did not read the book either, but I think you are right! :-)
>
>In the book, it's made fairly clear that they are not the same person,
>but in the movie, it is at least ambigious, at most, made fairly
>clear that they *are* one and the same. I've had this argument for
>months with my SO who read the book first and doesn't buy my
>reading of the movie (that is, that Ninny and Idgie are the same).
>Any other opinions??
I also thought they were one and the same until a friend who saw the movie
with me read the book and told me that they are explicitly not the same
in the book.
I kind of liked the idea that Jessica Tandy and Idgie were the same person
although in some ways, it does make a lot more sense for them to be
different people. (Especially for me when Ninny finds the jar of honey
at Ruth's grave. It would be just a bit too much if Ninny had managed
to put it there).>--
Hans L'Orange
>In article <1993May3.1...@pony.Ingres.COM>, wal...@Ingres.COM (Lynn Walker) writes...
>>This is probably fairly obvious, but I'd like confirmation on this. Is
>>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
>>
>>Sorry if this has been discussed before. Thanks.
>>
>> Lynn
>I saw (and enjoyed) the movie and I am pretty sure they are one and the same.
>I did not read the book either, but I think you are right! :-)
Nope, 'fraid not. I don't have the book in front of me but Ninny married
one of Idgie's brothers (cousins ? not sure) but the book has them as two
very separate people. The movie left that implication though.
Hans
--
******************************************************************************
* "I have always imagined that Paradise * "Let there be songs, *
* will be a kind of library" * to fill the air" *
* Jorge Luis Borges * Garcia - Hunter *
Karim Younes
>This is probably fairly obvious, but I'd like confirmation on this. Is
>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
I saw it yesterday on tv for the second time (NBC had the great idea
to broadcast it a 9:00pm) and I can confirm: I am almost sure they're
the same person. I say almost, because it is never mentioned in the
movie. However, that card on Ruth's grave signed "the bee charmer"
leaves little doubt (if any), and the little conversation Jessica
Tandy has with <the liberated wife, forgot her name> is also full
of (french) sous-entendus.
I loved this movie, so much that I actually missed part of the
hockey game yesterday !
--
Karim "Kouki" Younes Bell-Northern Research
ka...@bnr.ca Montreal, Canada
Michael Schuster
>This is probably fairly obvious, but I'd like confirmation on this. Is
>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>(Idgie) the same person?
They aren't. People who have read the book (I haven't) told us, the last
time this was discussed, that this is very clear. They muddy the waters
a bit in the movie with regard to this distinction, but if you listen
to Ninny's self-introduction, she makes it pretty clear that she and Idgie
are different people.
--
Mike Schuster | schu...@panix.com | 70346...@CompuServe.COM
------------------- | schu...@shell.portal.com | GEnie: MSCHUSTER
David Pimmel
person?
Answer: NO. It is very clear in the book that they are not. The film does
leave some doubt, granted, but if I remember correctly, near the
beginning, when Tandy starts telling Kathy Bates the story she
explicitly says something to the effect of "Let me tell you the story
of my sister-in-law." or something to that effect. The "bee charmer"
bit at the end is to say that the spirit of Idgie is still alive in
the friendship between Tandy and BAtes's characters.
Hope this helps,
--
David Pimmel
pim...@cs.wisc.edu
Michael S Ritchie
No, it doesn't. I am absolutely amazed at the thick-headed people
who are assuming that just because the book is one way, then automatically
so is the movie. If the filmaker(s) hadn't wanted there to be some
ambiguity, they would not have muddied the issue. If you can't take
a movie on its own terms without resort to whatever it may be based
on, you're working too hard (or perhaps not hard enough at movie
explication).
All of which is to say that if you think they are definitely not the
same person, find evidence in the film. Tandy could be telling the
story in the third person deliberately to distance herself from her
past "self." I don't have a solid answer, and I like it best that way.
Desiree Sy
>>In article <1993May3.1...@pony.Ingres.COM>, wal...@Ingres.COM (Lynn Wa
>lker) writes...
>>>Is
>>>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>>>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>>>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
>
>In the book, it's made fairly clear that they are not the same person,
>but in the movie, it is at least ambigious, at most, made fairly
>clear that they *are* one and the same. I've had this argument for
>months with my SO who read the book first and doesn't buy my
>reading of the movie (that is, that Ninny and Idgie are the same).
>Any other opinions??
No, the movie makes it clear, too. Ninny says to Evelyn the
first time they meet that she married Cleo, one of Idgie's
brothers. Actually, I should say that the movie indicated this
-- obviously, judging from the number of people who completely
missed this line of dialogue it was by no means clear!
No, I take that back. In one of the flashbacks that described
Buddy, Ninny clearly said that she had a crush on him, as did all
the girls, but that he loved Ruth Jamison. Obviously, she
wouldn't have said that she had a crush on him if she were Idgie.
-desiree
Barbara Hlavin
>In article <1993May3.1...@pony.Ingres.COM>, wal...@Ingres.COM (Lynn Walker) writes...
>>This is probably fairly obvious, but I'd like confirmation on this. Is
>>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
>I saw (and enjoyed) the movie and I am pretty sure they are one and the same.
>I did not read the book either, but I think you are right! :-)
I read the book. Ninny and Idgie are two separate, individual characters.
(The story wouldn't even make any *sense* if the two were the same woman.)
--Barbara
Dean R Money
>> (Previous post about how the book is clear on the separation of
>> Ninny and Idgie deleted)
>
>No, the movie makes it clear, too. Ninny says to Evelyn the
>first time they meet that she married Cleo, one of Idgie's
>brothers. Actually, I should say that the movie indicated this
>-- obviously, judging from the number of people who completely
>missed this line of dialogue it was by no means clear!
>
>No, I take that back. In one of the flashbacks that described
>Buddy, Ninny clearly said that she had a crush on him, as did all
>the girls, but that he loved Ruth Jamison. Obviously, she
>wouldn't have said that she had a crush on him if she were Idgie.
>
>-desiree
I watched the movie for the first time Sunday evening, and I remember
wondering if Idgie and Ninny were the same person. Then I recalled
the scenes desiree mentions above (Ninny married one of Idgie's
brothers and that she had a crush on Buddy. But I didn't completely
dismiss the idea of her being Idgie if she had a crush on him. Clearly,
Idgie did idolize Buddy, and though he was her brother, I think a
"crush" could still have been possible. Ninny being married to one
of Idgie's brothers was harder evidence of Idgie/Ninny's separation.
But, even after thinking over the above facts, the movie continued to
push me to wonder if they were the same women. I wondered if Ninny
had just said some things to cover her identity. Didn't others feel
that the movie was leading us to believe that Ninny might be Idgie?
Dean.
Mike Paugh
>This is probably fairly obvious, but I'd like confirmation on this. Is
>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>(Idgie) the same person?
>
The Jessica Tandy character was Idgie's sister in law. She married Buddy
and Idgie's brother, whose name escapes me now. He was the one who went
with Idgie to rescue Ruth.
This is one of my favorite movies. I also enjoyed the book greatly.
Mike Paugh Reading departure signs in some big airport
AT&T Bell Labs Reminds me of the places I've been.
Denver -- Jimmy Buffett --
Craig Shore
>pic...@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu (PICL account_25) writes:
>
>>In article <1993May3.1...@pony.Ingres.COM>, wal...@Ingres.COM (Lynn Walker) writes...
>>>This is probably fairly obvious, but I'd like confirmation on this. Is
>>>Jessica Tandy's character (Ninny) and Mary Stuart Masterson's character
>>>(Idgie) the same person? I haven't read the book, so I don't know if it
>>>is explained further. Any opinions on how the book compares to the movie?
>>>
>>>Sorry if this has been discussed before. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>
>>I saw (and enjoyed) the movie and I am pretty sure they are one and the same.
>>I did not read the book either, but I think you are right! :-)
>
>Nope, 'fraid not. I don't have the book in front of me but Ninny married
>one of Idgie's brothers (cousins ? not sure) but the book has them as two
>very separate people. The movie left that implication though.
Is that the old lady in the present, and the young girl in the story
that you're talking about? If so, yeah, the movie also left me with
the impression that they are the same person too.
Damm good movie, one of the best i've ever seen. Did it win heaps of
awards???
Craig.
Desiree Sy
>
>I watched the movie for the first time Sunday evening, and I remember
>wondering if Idgie and Ninny were the same person. Then I recalled
>the scenes desiree mentions above (Ninny married one of Idgie's
>brothers and that she had a crush on Buddy. But I didn't completely
>dismiss the idea of her being Idgie if she had a crush on him. Clearly,
>Idgie did idolize Buddy, and though he was her brother, I think a
>"crush" could still have been possible. Ninny being married to one
>of Idgie's brothers was harder evidence of Idgie/Ninny's separation.
It was the manner of the wording -- I believe Ninny says, All the
girls, including me were in love with Buddy Threadgoode.
>But, even after thinking over the above facts, the movie continued to
>push me to wonder if they were the same women. I wondered if Ninny
>had just said some things to cover her identity. Didn't others feel
>that the movie was leading us to believe that Ninny might be Idgie?
Actually, to me, the strongest evidence is simply that Idgie is a
very different person than Ninny -- that is, that Idgie would not
have grown up and become Ninny. Idgie was an iconoclast, wild, a
bit outrageous and very brave and forward thinking. Ninny is
sweet and kind, mild, and lives in her memories. True, she is
also brave -- but in a very different, quiet sort of way. In no
way could I imagine even a young Ninny throwing tins of food out
of a railway car, or jumping Frank Bennett to keep him off Ruth.
-desiree
Shenina Louise Jones
In the book, wasn't Ruth and Idggie(sp?) "together"? I thought
that I read something about how they were lesbians.....can
anyone answer this?
--
NN N
N N N
N NNina-------
Michael S Ritchie
writes:
>
> In the book, wasn't Ruth and Idggie(sp?) "together"? I thought
> that I read something about how they were lesbians.....can
> anyone answer this?
Apparently, yes--it was made fairly clear in the book. And it
doesn't take much imagination to see it in the movie too. For another
take on this, try to catch the Northern Exposure episode which tells
of the founding of Cicely; it seems solidly based on the situation
in Fried Green Tomatoes.
Sara Maxwell
that determine that Idgie and Ninny are not the same person from a
literal-minded point of view. But the whole story is after all just
that--a story of Ninny's with very little "proof." It often feels like
she and Idgie are the same person because Idgie is also a spinner of
tales, and Idgie is within the tale that Ninny is spinning. (Just like
people instinctively feel that the blind bard in Homer *is* Homer, for
no good literal reason.) Take Idgie's story about "the lake that used
to be there." It's not much of a stretch to think of the whole lost
world that Ninny describes, of passels of cousins and romantic country
life and glorious rich food as a "lake that used to be there," somethign
that exists in story, that might or might not be true. To balance that,
so that you don't think Ninny's story is *just* a story, Ninny also has
a house that "used to be there," and manifestly, literally did used to
be there. I'm not dismissing the little tokens of truth, like the
gravestones and mysteriously appearing jars of honey, but they don't
*prove* much. After all, nobody has less to say than a dead person, and
the honey is itself all bound up with the idea of story-telling--not
only in the story itself (Idgie the tale-spinner is also Idgie the
magical bee charmer), but outside of it-- think of "sweet-talking," and
figures in myth (like Hesiod) who get their poetic powers from bees. I
*loved* this movie for many reasons, but especially for the way you are
kept off balance about what's true, what's inside and outside the story,
about food and story and memory and death. (Honey is story and food,
murdered guy is secret memory and death and food, graveyard is memorials
and forgetting and death--and look! there's some honey, etc etc etc.)
Sara
Mike Paugh
> In article <1993May3.2...@cs.wisc.edu> pim...@eagles.cs.wisc.edu (David
> Pimmel) writes:
> >Question: Are Jessica Tandy and Mary Stuart Masterson's characters the same
> > person?
> >
> >Answer: NO. It is very clear in the book that they are not. The film does
> > leave some doubt, granted, but if I remember correctly, near the
> > beginning, when Tandy starts telling Kathy Bates the story she
> > explicitly says something to the effect of "Let me tell you the story
> > of my sister-in-law." or something to that effect.
>
> No, it doesn't. I am absolutely amazed at the thick-headed people
> who are assuming that just because the book is one way, then automatically
> so is the movie. If the filmaker(s) hadn't wanted there to be some
> ambiguity, they would not have muddied the issue.
>
The screenplay for the movie was written by Fannie Flagg and Carol
Sobieski. Flagg is also the author of the book. This is one reason
the movie and the book track each other so well.
If the intent was to change the characters from the book, I do not
think they (Flagg and Sobieski) would have been so subtle.
I also think that Ninny identifies Idgie as her sister in law, but I
will have to check the tape to be sure.
For those of you who have not read the book, please do so if you
liked the movie. The book ends slightly differently and is wonderful
summer reading material.
Mike Paugh
AT&T Bell Labs Its a ragtop day
Clark
>In article <1s5tti...@uwm.edu> ni...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Shenina Louise Jones)
>writes:
>>
>> In the book, wasn't Ruth and Idggie(sp?) "together"? I thought
>> that I read something about how they were lesbians.....can
>> anyone answer this?
>Apparently, yes--it was made fairly clear in the book. And it
>doesn't take much imagination to see it in the movie too. For another
>take on this, try to catch the Northern Exposure episode which tells
>of the founding of Cicely; it seems solidly based on the situation
>in Fried Green Tomatoes.
>--
In both NoExp and Fried Green Tomatoes there's two lesbians. I think
the comparisons end there. In the former are a couple people looking
for artistic and intellectual freedom. In the latter are who women who
prefer each others companionship as opposed to how they're supposed to
act.
Just my $.02.
Sue
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sue Clark | "I wanted to be Lily Tomlin" - Emma Thompson
cl...@netcom.com | on _Primetime Live_
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Darin L. Boesch
-Darin
mildred l perkins
>> who are assuming that just because the book is one way, then automatically
>> so is the movie. If the filmaker(s) hadn't wanted there to be some
>> ambiguity, they would not have muddied the issue.
>>
>> Michael Ritchie mrit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Oh Michael, don't be a ninny (<--pun alert). If you'll watch the film
again you'll clearly hear the Jessica Tandy character identify herself
to the Kathy Bates character as Idgie's sister-in-law, which is the same
as the book.
There is that confusing moment at the end, though, in which Ninny
purposely allows Evelyn to think she's Idgie. I've never understood
why they did that, and it actually made me mad the first time I saw the
movie.
Dean R Money
>In both NoExp and Fried Green Tomatoes there's two lesbians. I think
>the comparisons end there. In the former are a couple people looking
>for artistic and intellectual freedom. In the latter are who women who
>prefer each others companionship as opposed to how they're supposed to
>act.
>
>Just my $.02.
I think there were other similarities between the two. I saw the Northern
Exposure episode long before seeing FGT, so I didn't know to look for sim-
ilarities, but I remember some things. For example:
- both stories were about a couple of women, one more boister-
ous, and the other the real "do-gooder" that everyone loved.
- the do-gooder dies and the town mourns.
There were other similarities that I can't recall exactly, but weren't
one of the characters in NE similar to the homeless man in FGT? Wasn't
it Ed's character?
Dean.
Michael S Ritchie
>
>In both NoExp and Fried Green Tomatoes there's two lesbians. I think
>the comparisons end there. In the former are a couple people looking
>for artistic and intellectual freedom. In the latter are who women who
>prefer each others companionship as opposed to how they're supposed to
>act.
What? You don't find more resonance than that? Weren't the two
women in FGT trying to find their own "freedom," albeit more
economic than artistic? Weren't both couples trying to find a
space to make their own families? In both NoExp and FGT, didn't
one of the women die an untimely death which affected an entire
community? I'm not exactly sure what your last sentence means, but
I think it could clearly apply to NoExp as well; the founders of
Cicely certainly "prefer each others companionship as opposed to how
they're supposed to act," just as in FGT. I wasn't implying anything
nasty or backhanded in the comparison, just a nice, as I state
above, "resonance" between the two which illuminates both works.
Michael S Ritchie
(mildred l perkins) writes:
>
>Oh Michael, don't be a ninny (<--pun alert). If you'll watch the film
>again you'll clearly hear the Jessica Tandy character identify herself
>to the Kathy Bates character as Idgie's sister-in-law, which is the same
>as the book.
>
>There is that confusing moment at the end, though, in which Ninny
>purposely allows Evelyn to think she's Idgie. I've never understood
>why they did that, and it actually made me mad the first time I saw the
>movie.
Oh Mildred, don't be an idgie ;-} ! As I've stated before, Tandy
could be deliberately distancing herself from her "former" self--
mightn't she have started all over again after Ruth's death?--
which would explain her husband. The very fact that the movie's
ambiguity is so strong makes it something that one cannot just
dismiss merely because of "evidence" from the book. I guess
we just have to agree to disagree.
Erika Harvey
ninny nad idgie are NOT the same person. ninny tells evelyn
that she married cleo, idgie's brother and that she had a crush
on buddy like all the other girls. in the book this is spelled
out as clearly, but is harder to miss thatn dialogue in a
movie. i almost always see the movie first and then read the
book to avoid being disappointed by the movie. in this case i
was disappointed by the book. it was a good book, and the
movie stays fairly close, but the feeling is just not there in
the book that is there in the movie. the fucus of the story in
the book is a little different and that changes it. at least
that's what i think. thanks! erika lynn
Chuck H. Chapman
[stuff deleted]
>But, even after thinking over the above facts, the movie continued to
>push me to wonder if they were the same women. I wondered if Ninny
Guess we'll have to wait till Fried Green Tomatoes II to find out! :)
Chuck
--
Charles H. Chapman (GTRI/MATD) (404) 528-7588
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!matd!cchapman
Internet: ccha...@matd.gatech.edu
Unknown
In article <1s9hbt$c...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mrit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael S Ritchie) writes:
>In article <C6KnE...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mlpe...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
>(mildred l perkins) writes:
>>
>>Oh Michael, don't be a ninny (<--pun alert). If you'll watch the film
>>again you'll clearly hear the Jessica Tandy character identify herself
>>to the Kathy Bates character as Idgie's sister-in-law, which is the same
>>as the book.
>>
>>There is that confusing moment at the end, though, in which Ninny
>>purposely allows Evelyn to think she's Idgie. I've never understood
>>why they did that, and it actually made me mad the first time I saw the
>>movie.
>
>Oh Mildred, don't be an idgie ;-} ! As I've stated before, Tandy
>could be deliberately distancing herself from her "former" self--
>mightn't she have started all over again after Ruth's death?--
>which would explain her husband. The very fact that the movie's
>ambiguity is so strong makes it something that one cannot just
>dismiss merely because of "evidence" from the book. I guess
>we just have to agree to disagree.
>--
Isn't it also possible that Tandy's character admired Idgie so much (how is it
that she is so familiar and interested in her life story?) that in the end she
might have taken on Idigie's personality a bit? Just another possible
interpretation.
JDB
Gary Graffagnino
mildred l perkins
>In article <C6KnE...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mlpe...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
>(mildred l perkins) writes:
>>Oh Michael, don't be a ninny (<--pun alert).
>Oh Mildred, don't be an idgie ;-} !
Shouldn't that be "don't be an idgieot"?
Anyway, I don't have any problem agreeing to disagree - just so long as
you realize you're wrong. ;-)