El Cid to Be Shown at AFI and ArcLight
Robert DiMucci
Theater (Silver Spring, Maryland) and the ArcLight Theater (Hollywood)
on Monday, January 28th. It is described as a "Special HD Digital
Presentation of the Digitally Restored Wide-Screen Epic." I take it
that this will be a projection of the version that is being released on
DVD on January 29th. Since there is no HD version being released
currently (only standard DVD), I wonder if this presentation is actually
going to be in High Definition, or whether they are just going to
project the commercial DVD?
ShowsOn
I guess it is the same transfer that has just made its way to DVD.
It wouldn't surprise me if the DVD is HD sourced (down converted). But
it seems that it is from the 1993 restoration, which was from 4 perf 35
anamorphic elements, rather than the Technirama original.
Simon Howson
Jim Nason
"ShowsOn" <simon...@NOSPAMyahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3hnkj.5087$421....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Isn't there a lack of equipment today in working with Technirama films? This
was brought up somewhere at the time Spartacus was restored. In the case of
that film, a new 65mm negative was made. In the case of El Cid, only a 35mm
anamorphic negative was created.
Some years ago, someone wrote in Operating Cameraman magazine that he was in
possession of the orginal Technirama printer, and was willing to let it be
used for restoration purposes.
As I understand it, back in the old days, Technicolor labs ran the original
negative through the machine horizontally and printed it frame for frame on
70mm release stock traveling vertically. For 35mm release, they used the
machine to produce the 35mm matrices from which Technicolor dye transfer
release prints were made.
In my non-technical opinion, none of the restorations even approached the
quality of the original releases. I truly feel sorry for today's younger
film fans who might like to see these classic films. Video suffers in
comparison. One video presentation I liked, however, was the documen-tary,
In the Shadow of the Moon. Nice presentation at Harvard Square Cinema in
Cambridge.
Jim Nason
Theo Gluck
"Jim Nason" <jhn...@metrocast.net> wrote:
snip
> Isn't there a lack of equipment today in working with Technirama films? This
> was brought up somewhere at the time Spartacus was restored. In the case of
> that film, a new 65mm negative was made. In the case of El Cid, only a 35mm
> anamorphic negative was created.
>
> Some years ago, someone wrote in Operating Cameraman magazine that he was in
> possession of the orginal Technirama printer, and was willing to let it be
> used for restoration purposes.
>
> As I understand it, back in the old days, Technicolor labs ran the original
> negative through the machine horizontally and printed it frame for frame on
> 70mm release stock traveling vertically. For 35mm release, they used the
> machine to produce the 35mm matrices from which Technicolor dye transfer
> release prints were made.
>
> In my non-technical opinion, none of the restorations even approached the
snip again......
You may want to take a look at the restored SLEEPING BEAUTY BluRay DVD
later this year that started with 4K scans of the original Technirama
successive exposure negative......(7.62 linear miles of film if you're
keeping count)
in Technicolor®
"Jim Nason" <jhn...@metrocast.net> wrote in message
news:6qOdnRE19dKfww_a...@metrocastcablevision.com...
>
> "ShowsOn" <simon...@NOSPAMyahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3hnkj.5087$421....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Robert DiMucci wrote:
>>> Some version of El Cid is scheduled to be shown at the AFI Silver
>>> Theater (Silver Spring, Maryland) and the ArcLight Theater (Hollywood)
>>> on Monday, January 28th. It is described as a "Special HD Digital
>>> Presentation of the Digitally Restored Wide-Screen Epic." I take it
>>> that this will be a projection of the version that is being released on
>>> DVD on January 29th. Since there is no HD version being released
>>> currently (only standard DVD), I wonder if this presentation is actually
>>> going to be in High Definition, or whether they are just going to
>>> project the commercial DVD?
>>
>> I guess it is the same transfer that has just made its way to DVD.
>>
>> It wouldn't surprise me if the DVD is HD sourced (down converted). But it
>> seems that it is from the 1993 restoration, which was from 4 perf 35
>> anamorphic elements, rather than the Technirama original.
>>
>> Simon Howson
>
> Isn't there a lack of equipment today in working with Technirama films?
> This was brought up somewhere at the time Spartacus was restored. In the
> case of that film, a new 65mm negative was made. In the case of El Cid,
> only a 35mm anamorphic negative was created.
>
I think there are a number of 8 perf. horizontal movements available since
VistaVision was used quite a bit in the 80's and 90's for effects work. In
the case of SPARTACUS, Katz and Harris had problems getting a proper lens to
go from the anamorphic 35x8 perf. separation elements to the spherical 65x5
perf. IN. An article I read mentioned Panavision provided them with a lens
for the restoration, but it had too much depth of field and showed a great
deal of dirt, so it was modified futher for a better looking image.
Morgan Montague
ShowsOn
What about King of Kings? The DVD of that looks amazing. I'll be shocked
if that was sourced from a 4 perf 35mm element.
Simon Howson
Martin Hart
simon...@NOSPAMyahoo.com.au says...
<HUGE SNIP>
>
> What about King of Kings? The DVD of that looks amazing. I'll be shocked
> if that was sourced from a 4 perf 35mm element.
>
> Simon Howson
Our current technology still does not carry enough resolution to be able
to distinguish between an 8-perf source and a good 4-perf source, all
things being equal. I've seen IB Technicolor 35mm anamorphic prints
that I thought looked better than 70mm contact prints, and that's
without leaving the photo-optical realm. When you start adding in the
limitations of even the best video transfer, the advantage that an 8-
perf source would have over 4-perf is substantially diminished. Digital
technology isn't standing still, however, and my heretical statements
will be dashed in the not too distant future.
Marty
--
The American WideScreen Museum
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/
ShowsOn
So any idea if the King of Kings DVD was from an 8 or 4 perf source? I
can't tell! :-P
Simon Howson
Martin Hart
simon...@NOSPAMyahoo.com.au says...
My guess is four perf, which is easily good enough for a DVD. Dick May
might be able to fill us in on "King of Kings" which was released when
he was still at Warners.
Joseph Goodman
"
>> Simon Howson
>
> My guess is four perf, which is easily good enough for a DVD. Dick May
> might be able to fill us in on "King of Kings" which was released when
> he was still at Warners.
>
I wonder how many 8/35 features are on DVD with transfers from 8/35 elements
altogether. There's the reissue of "The Searchers" (digitally re-aligned
seps at 4k), the Technirama "The Leopard" (high-def master from the original
negative), any others anyone aware of?
ShowsOn
Good question. The Vertigo restoration was 8, 35 converted to 5, 65, but
who knows if the latest Vertigo DVD was transfered from a 5, 65 element.
I am referring to the version in the "Masterpiece Collection" boxed set.
The latest DVD edition of To Catch A Thief is a substantial improvement
from the older addition, but again, who knows if it was from 8, 35.
Simon Howson
Theo Gluck
"Joseph Goodman" <dig...@rcn.com> wrote:
> I wonder how many 8/35 features are on DVD with transfers from 8/35 elements
> altogether. There's the reissue of "The Searchers" (digitally re-aligned
> seps at 4k), the Technirama "The Leopard" (high-def master from the original
> negative), any others anyone aware of?
SLEEPING BEAUTY on BluRay and SD DVD (releasing in the fall of 2008) is
from 4K scans of the original 8-perf 35mm b/w successive exposure
Technirama negative. New mixes (including a 7.1 version) used the
original LCR 35mm mag music masters from 1958...and they still sound
amazing.
Theo
Joseph Goodman
> SLEEPING BEAUTY on BluRay and SD DVD (releasing in the fall of 2008) is
> from 4K scans of the original 8-perf 35mm b/w successive exposure
> Technirama negative. New mixes (including a 7.1 version) used the
> original LCR 35mm mag music masters from 1958...and they still sound
> amazing.
>
> Theo
Is DTS Digital Images involved like they were for the last DVD of this
title?
Robert DiMucci
Monday evening, January 28th, the American Film Institute's Silver
Theatre showed a high definition video version of "El Cid." Each
attendee received a copy of the 40-page program reproduction that will
appear in the DVD boxed set. The screening was preceded by remarks from
Mike Clark, film critic for USA Today, and by a spokesman for Genius
Productions who worked with the Weinstein Company on producing the DVD.
The picture quality was only so-so. The left-most portion of the picture
was somewhat blurry. The theater management attributed this to
"keystoning" of the picture. I'm not entirely sure what that means, but
I believe that it has to do with the projector being off axis with the
screen. Otherwise the picture was OK, with good color. Even at its best,
however, the picture was not up to the 35mm print I saw at the AFI in 1993.
Regarding the music--another mixed bag. The sound was excellent, the
music bright and clear. But the AFI dispensed with the overture in its
entirely, perhaps reasoning (incorrectly as far as I was concerned) that
after the speeches, no one would be interested in listening to a
4-minute overture before the start of the film proper. At the
intermission point, following the final notes of the first act (and true
to the DVD mastering), the entr'acte immediately began. The entr'acte
played completely through, while the intermission card stayed on the
screen. Only then did the house lights come up. Following the
intermission, the second act began without further introductory music,
with Rodrigo bursting through the doors of Alfonso's throne room. At the
end of the film, the choral exit music was properly played.
Despite its limitations, I fear that this may be the best "El Cid" we
may ever again see. I despair that any good 35mm prints remain. On a
brighter note, the spokesman from Genius stated that the AFI may have
future video showings of the other Bronston films as they are released
to DVD, starting with "The Fall of the Roman Empire" in April. As I have
only see FOTRE on a 27 inch screen, this will likely be my only chance
to see it on a 40 foot screen.
Robert DiMucci
Monday evening, January 28th, the American Film Institute's Silver
Theatre showed a high definition video version of "El Cid." Each
attendee received a copy of the 40-page program reproduction that will
appear in the DVD boxed set. The screening was preceded by remarks from
Mike Clark, film critic for USA Today, and by a spokesman for Genius
Productions who worked with the Weinstein Company on producing the DVD.
The picture quality was only so-so. The left-most portion of the picture
was somewhat blurry. The theater management attributed this to
"keystoning" of the picture. I'm not entirely sure what that means, but
I believe that it has to do with the projector being off axis with the
screen. Otherwise the picture was OK, with good color. Even at its best,
however, the picture was not up to the 35mm print I saw at the AFI in 1993.
Regarding the music--another mixed bag. The sound was excellent, the
music bright and clear. But the AFI dispensed with the overture in its
entirety, perhaps reasoning (incorrectly as far as I was concerned) that