Tommy Quintiphonic Sound
Lincoln Spector
the original release of Tommy?
What was the extra track doing? Split surround? Sub-woofer? I read somewhere
that it was for an extra speaker behind the screen for vocals. What would be
the point of that?
Also, where did they put that extra track? Was it an interlocked system?
--
Lincoln Spector
Computer Journalist, Columnist, Humorist, and Public Speaker
lin...@dnai.com
www.dnai.com/~lincoln
John
> the original release of Tommy?
This was a topic here awhile ago. I copied this posting from Deja News.
On the advice of one of the posters listed below, I bought the DVD of "Tommy"
and the note sheet is pretty good...
-------------------------
>Quintiphonic sound used only lcr on the mag with ls and rs matrixed onto the
> lr tracks. All channels had dbx noise reduction It played in toronto at the
> fairview and the varsity theatres with the quintiphonic box that also had an
> interesting rotary switch to actually swithc amplifier configurations
>the 70mm prints were just regular dolby nr with no surround matrixing
>> I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. The new DVD of TOMMY has
>> attempted to recreate the original 5-channel (LS-L-C-R-RS) sound. It does
>> not use the LFE channel. I got the disc last week, and it is a very weird
>> mix by modern standards...LOTS of surround things going on. There is a
>> note sheet in the box with a fairly detailed explanation of the
>> Quintifonic system.
>>
>> It's a fun disc to crank up loud and remember the olden days.
>
>> That's "Quintaphonic" sound. From my not so trustworthy memory.... 35mm mag,
>> hard centre on one stripe, left and right matrixed with left surround and
>> right surround on the left and right stripes, surround stripe unused. The only
>> real reference I have seen to the system is the SMPTE article in which the
>> noise reduction used is DBX. However, apparently Dolby got the system out
>> into the field for "Tommy" with the CP100.
>
>Yes, that's the system I was thinking of. I forgot it was encoded with dbx.
>I was a big fan of dbx, but lost interest because you could hear it working
>(we used to say, "You could hear it 'breathe.'")
>
>>> You might be thinking of "Quadraphonic" sound. Some records were released
>>> in the 1970's with four discrete channels of sound.
>
>I think that's what Quintaphonic sound was supposed to do - bring
>Quadraphonic sound to theaters.
>
>Most (if not all) sound systems for film concentrate on screen
>channels (Dolby 04 / Cinemascope would be 3&1 - 3 screen channels and
>1 surround - or classic 70mm Dolby 40 would be 5&1)
>
>But, I think that Quintaphonic sound was supposed to recreate a different
>kind of sound; instead of more channels behind the screen and less surround,
>sound could come from any direction: as if there were 4 speakers in the
>theater - one in each corner. Or, maybe not 4 exactly, but an equal array,
>like a 360 deg spread.
Alan Smithee
Is it true that this was also the first-ever movie in optical Dolby
Stereo? I've heard varying answers on which movie really was, some say it
was Tommy, others say it was "Lisztomania" and others say it was the 1976
version of "Star is Born".
I have the "Tommy" laserdisc, still debating whether to get the DVD.
Lincoln Spector
> >> attempted to recreate the original 5-channel (LS-L-C-R-RS) sound. It
does
> >> not use the LFE channel.
Lincoln
fred
Hopefuly, the original poster will see this and remember, (and will correct
me) but I think he meant: Low Frequency Effect (subwoofer.)
That's the ".1" in Dolby Digital "5.1"
RJT...@mail.tds.net
the regular surround speakers. They put an A4 in each of the rear
corners. The 70mm prints did not use noise reduction.
Bob Throop
Martin Hart
> The theatres that I remember running "Tommy" in Quintaphonic did not use
> the regular surround speakers. They put an A4 in each of the rear
> corners. The 70mm prints did not use noise reduction.
This sounds similar to installations that ran "Rollerball" in a quad
setup.
Marty
--
Relive the panoramic past:
Visit The American WideScreen Museum
http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm/
Theo Gluck
in 70mm
gordon mcleod
It used three of the 4 mag tracks on a stripped 35mm print and the Left and
right tracks were matrixed with left surround right surround and left/right
with the sansui QS matrix. All 3 tracks had DBX noise reduction. They built a
unit that held the cards plus amplifier input and speaker switching There is
a very good article in a SMPTE jurnal dealing with the unit
On Sun, 7 Nov 1999 19:38:09 -0800, Lincoln Spector wrote:
>Anyone know any details about the special Quintiphonic <sp> sound used for
>the original release of Tommy?
>
Richard L. Lenoir
<theo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>although I never went to see it, I do recall seeing print ads for ROLLERBALL
>in 70mm
>
I have seen Rollerball in 70mm in San Francisco, I do not
remember the name of the theatre but I have a picture of the marquee
somewhere in a drawer.
gordon mcleod
Lincoln Spector
the Who described the system simply as "just like regular quadraphonic
sound, except for an extra speaker behind the screen for the vocals."
I, of course, read "quadraphonic" and thought standard four-track movie
sound (3 front tracks, one surround). But the author of the book, a pop
music historian, meant the quadraphonic sound that failed to take off for
records in the early 70's.
Lincoln
gordon mcleod <gmc...@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:tzpyrbqvqverpgpb...@bigmomma.idirect.com...
Tiger
Avenue.
Morgan
Richard L. Lenoir <len...@ibm.net> wrote in message
news:382963a...@news3.ibm.net...
Nicholas Moenssens
as a trademark) in Cincinnati first run.
I believe this may have been a full 6 track NR'd show.
Mike Coate <mi...@widescreenreview.com> wrote in message
news:80au8g$57b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> First 70mm 6 track Dolby Stereo release: A STAR IS BORN (1976) (it might
> have been LOGAN'S RUN, however).
>
Peter
>>
I, of course, read "quadraphonic" and thought standard four-track movie
sound (3 front tracks, one surround). But the author of the book, a pop
music historian, meant the quadraphonic sound that failed to take off for
records in the early 70's.
>>
And it was anecdotally reported that it was experiments with "quintiphnic
sound" that resulted in the realization that Western Electric's ca. 1938 Stereo
Variable Area light valve, finally released in mono form in 1947, was, in fact,
able to be "resurrected" as a SVA light valve.
IOW, the "dual bilateral" track thereby recorded was in fact a stereo track
which was operated as a (dual) mono track.
Certainly, the three specially-contructed RCA stereo recorders played a part in
the development of so-called "Dolby Stereo", but all currently operational SVA
recorders, and there are more than 70 of these world-wide, are based upon that
1938 WE light valve and that 1947 WE recorder, not the RCA PM-80.
AFAIK, there are no RCA recorders till operational.
Mike Coate
Alan Smithee <alns...@crl.crl.com> wrote:
>
> Is it true that this was also the first-ever movie in optical Dolby
> Stereo? I've heard varying answers on which movie really was, some say it
> was Tommy, others say it was "Lisztomania" and others say it was the 1976
> version of "Star is Born".
According to information supplied by Dolby Labs, there were many Dolby
“firsts.“
TOMMY utilized Dolby noise reduction on some (but not all) prints.
First mono soundtrack using Dolby NR: STARDUST (1974).
First Dolby 3-channel matrix encoded optical soundtrack: LISZTOMANIA
(1976).
First 4-channel matrix encoded optical soundtrack: A STAR IS BORN
(1976).
First 70mm 6 track Dolby Stereo release: A STAR IS BORN (1976) (it might
have been LOGAN‘S RUN, however).
First 70mm 6 track Dolby Stereo release with “baby boom”: STAR WARS
(1977). I believe the “baby boom” was derived from a 4-track master. Can
anyone confirm?
First 70mm 6 track Dolby Stereo release with LFE recorded specifically
for the “baby boom” channels: CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (1977).
First 70mm 6 track Dolby Stereo release with separate left/right
surround channels: SUPERMAN (1978).
Mike Coate
P.S. Alan, did you use Dolby on any of your crappy movies?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John
Interestingly, the Quintaphonic engineers agreed to accept these spec.'s.
Freq. Response: 40hz -12Khz +/-2db
Signal to Noise: 65dBm
Total peak distortion @1Khz: 2.5%
Dynamic range: 50db
Separation between channels: 12db
Theater SPL: 110db unweighed
Wow and flutter DIN45507: 1.2% unweighed
0.4% weighed
Phase coherence: +/-30'
Not super-impressive, even at the time.
SMPTE spells it, "Quintaphonic."
Quotes:
" ...the system is capable of sound reproduction with a far higher quality
than is normally encountered, with the single exception of the
Todd-AO six-track system."
"The unanimous decision from a listening panel was in favor of DBX [over Dolby]
which was then adopted...."
RICHVINCE
>in 70mm
Yes. It ran at the Century 21 Theatre in Denver in 70mm with LFE. I recall
being very impressed by the fact that the low frequency was so powerful during
the action scenes that by the end of the movie your body actually felt as if it
had been pummeled.
Rich
Mark Lensenmayer
: I saw LOGANS RUN in 70mm Dolby System (Dolby Stereo had not yet been coined
: as a trademark) in Cincinnati first run.
: I believe this may have been a full 6 track NR'd show.
I'm curious...at which theatre did you see this? The Carousel, perhaps?
Mark L.
William Dold
>
> In article <38278024...@mail.tds.net>, RJT...@mail.tds.net says...
> > The theatres that I remember running "Tommy" in Quintaphonic did not use
> > the regular surround speakers. They put an A4 in each of the rear
> > corners. The 70mm prints did not use noise reduction.
>
> This sounds similar to installations that ran "Rollerball" in a quad
> setup.
>
> Marty
> --
> Relive the panoramic past:
> Visit The American WideScreen Museum
> http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm/
Saw 'Tommy' at the old Pi Alley theatre in Boston - theatre with a very
low ceiling and tiny projection booth. Booth ceiling was so low that the
equipment was touching the ceiling and a tall projectionist had to sit
rather than stand. Sound system was as you describe above.
Mike Coate
rich...@aol.com (RICHVINCE) wrote:
> Yes. It ran at the Century 21 Theatre in Denver in 70mm with LFE.
ROLLERBALL (a pre-”baby boom” title) with LFE! How is that possible?
Mike Coate
gordon mcleod
ToddAo configuration
I still have all the test loops for it and the setup instructions
Theo Gluck
Nicholas Moenssens wrote:
> I saw LOGANS RUN in 70mm Dolby System (Dolby Stereo had not yet been coined
> as a trademark) in Cincinnati first run.
>
> I believe this may have been a full 6 track NR'd show.
>
> Mike Coate <mi...@widescreenreview.com> wrote in message
> news:80au8g$57b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
RICHVINCE
You seem to be forgetting that it was in 70mm, which means it was in Dolby 6
track mag.
Rich
Mike Coate
rich...@aol.com (RICHVINCE) wrote:
>
> You seem to be forgetting that it was in 70mm, which means it was in Dolby 6
> track mag.
Your statement about ROLLERBALL being in “Dolby 6 track mag” is
incorrect. Perhaps you didn’t understand my comment about ROLLERBALL
being a pre-“baby boom” title. Just because it was in 70mm does not mean
it was in “Dolby 6 track mag.” What about all of the 70mm releases from
the 1950s and 1960s? Were they in Dolby too?
ROLLERBALL was released in 1975 and neither the 35mm or 70mm prints
utilized Dolby. Yes, it was released with 70mm prints but with generic 6
track magnetic stereo sound rather than “6 track Dolby Stereo.” In other
words, it DID NOT have any Dolby noise reduction or any low frequency
“baby boom” incorporated into the soundtrack. 70mm releases, with the
modifications made by Dolby, were introduced in 1976.
You still may have experienced the movie with some moments of deep bass
as the theatre you saw it at may have installed subwoofers. But any
subwoofers would not have been picking up any specific low frequency
information as none existed on the prints.
gordon mcleod
University theatre in Toronto they had 6 of the Dolby single rack units
holding one Cat 22 in each for that film installed for the films opening. The
mag preamps were a simplex tube system and the projectors were still Bauer
U2's
If one had a CP200 it would be the equivelent to format 41
fred
> >Your statement about ROLLERBALL being in “Dolby 6 track mag” is
> >incorrect. Perhaps you didn’t understand my comment about ROLLERBALL
> >being a pre-“baby boom” title. Just because it was in 70mm does not mean
> >it was in “Dolby 6 track mag.”
> >ROLLERBALL was released in 1975 and neither the 35mm or 70mm prints
> >utilized Dolby. Yes, it was released with 70mm prints but with generic 6
> >track magnetic stereo sound rather than “6 track Dolby Stereo.” In other
> >words, it DID NOT have any Dolby noise reduction or any low frequency
> >“baby boom” incorporated into the soundtrack.
Is it possible that there were different versions? Our theater company
received two different versions of "SW:Empire", one with "booms" on
Le and Re (format 42), and another with nothing at all on Le and Re
(I don't think there ever was a format number for that.)
Mike Coate
fred <li...@idt.net> wrote:
> Is it possible that there were different versions?
It’s always possible that certain films can be released with multiple
versions. However, my point about ROLLERBALL was that it was released
one year prior to “6 track Dolby” being available. It is entirely
possible that Dolby Noise Reduction was being utilized on several movies
prior to 1976, but it’s also my understanding that those films would
also be credited with a “Dolby System” logo in the credits and on
posters & ads.
Some things to consider:
1. There is no Dolby credit in ROLLERBALL
2. I have an LA Times newspaper ad from its original release and it says
nothing about Dolby.
3. It was re-mixed in Dolby Digital for DVD release but without any .1
LFE, implying to me that there never was any in the original mix.
4. How is it that one person remembers it having deep bass (implying the
baby boom tracks found on 6 track Dolby soundtracks) while another
remembers it as having a Todd-AO layout?
5. Is it possible that ROLLERBALL is being confused with another film,
say, LOGAN’S RUN, a Dolby film that may have utilized the Toddd-AO
layout or a 4 track plus baby boom layout and does include a Dolby
credit?
Mike Coate
Mike Coate
gordon mcleod
I serviced the University theatre in Toronto and happen to have kept the
notes on each set up done there as well as the alignment films
Rollerball played with A type on all six channels in a ToddAo configuration
using Altec A4's and Ampex amplifiers witrh a Simplex XL tube preamps