How did they sync sound in old movies?
Doc
movie, he was a heck of a performer. There's a bit where he does this song
along with some facial contortions that are fairly involved and it got me to
wondering about some things.
Obviously his voice and the music that you actually hear in the film are
dubbed in, but in '49 how would they have kept him doing his bit in a steady
rhythm while they're filming so they can hit all his various facial
contortions with the musical cues?
For that matter, many of the vocals were very involved and tongue-twisty,
how did they match the overdubs so closely to the film?
It seems those old musicals really demanded a lot of the performers, often
doing very intricate, very physical choreography in strict time in sometimes
extended shots involving numerous actors, extras and props, not to mention
the camera work that had to be choreographed as well. You mess it up toward
the end, you gotta start all over.
bja...@iwaynet.net
about '49 because German Magnetic tape recording designs were being
exploted in this country after the war ended. Wire recorders were in
use prior to that but were of insufficent quality to use for film or
music.))
The over dubbing was done by showing the movie on a screen as the
orchestra/ talent did the overdubbing. Since both the sound and picture
were on film the sprockets kept both exactly in sync. Later in tape
days, first they used tape with sprocket holes and then later they had
to add electronic "sprocket hole" signals to the tape to keep sound and
picture locked. But I would guess the sound in your Danny Kaye movie
was probably recorded optically on film.
And yeah, there was REAL talent back then. Most of these folks came out
of Vaudeville and so had years of experience honing the act in front
of a live audience without the possiblity of any tweeks or retakes!
The death of vaudeville and later the invention of videotape pretty
much started letting performers off the hook and a large decline live
performance talent ensued. The only exception being those people in
live theatre.
I have to hand it to some Hollywood actors who just for grins
periodically sign on to a Broadway production just to keep their talent
sharpened. But as a rule you don't see that level of talent much these
days.
Don Pearce
wrote:
There were no tricks - just a little long-forgotten thing called
talent.
d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
Rick Hollett
effects), in the old cartoons as well(Disney and WB mainly). Even the mixing
is often as good or better than you'd ever do today. The engineers must have
had to "practice" the piece just as the musicians in order to get all the
moves needed to "bring forward" smaller sounding instruments(flute, bassoon,
violin, etc.), while juggling all the foley (and prerecorded) fx, and
dialog. I can't even imagine the consoles used on those 60 yr old sessions,
let alone the talent!
Rick Hollett
"Don Pearce" <don...@pearce.uk.com> wrote in message
news:4397f30a...@text.usenet.plus.net...
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
They may have played back a click track of some sort while he was doing his
contortions....
John
Scott Dorsey
> movie, he was a heck of a performer. There's a bit where he does this song
> along with some facial contortions that are fairly involved and it got me to
> wondering about some things.
>
> Obviously his voice and the music that you actually hear in the film are
> dubbed in, but in '49 how would they have kept him doing his bit in a steady
> rhythm while they're filming so they can hit all his various facial
> contortions with the musical cues?
>
> For that matter, many of the vocals were very involved and tongue-twisty,
> how did they match the overdubs so closely to the film?
The same way we do it today, with direct playback.
The camera has a 3-phase motor on it, which goes to a switch panel in
the studio. There's a padded room with a sound camera somewhere else
in the studio, and that machine _only_ lays down an optical track. It
is synchronized to the camera because it also has an identical motor
in it, locked to the same source. In this way, sound and picture
can both be recorded in synch, on different films for later editing.
In a location application, the sound camera would be carried around
in a seperate sound truck.
The room with the sound camera, however, _also_ has an optical playback
device. So the material that has been previously recorded can be played
back on set and the actors can lip synch to it.
1949 would have been close to the end of things for optical sound in
production. Within a few years, that optical camera and playback bench
would have been replaced with mag dubbers and the room called the "dubber
room."
And then came Rangertone and soon after the Nagra.
> It seems those old musicals really demanded a lot of the performers, often
> doing very intricate, very physical choreography in strict time in sometimes
> extended shots involving numerous actors, extras and props, not to mention
> the camera work that had to be choreographed as well. You mess it up toward
> the end, you gotta start all over.
Yes, but most of these were performers who had spent years actually
performing live on stage, where you _can't_ start all over. The
decline in live theatre is why we don't get actors able to do that
so tightly any more.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Doc
"Doc" <docsa...@xhotmail.comx> wrote in message
news:34Rlf.804$nm....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Obviously his voice and the music that you actually hear in the film are
> dubbed in, but in '49 how would they have kept him doing his bit in a
steady
> rhythm while they're filming so they can hit all his various facial
> contortions with the musical cues?
Is it ridiculous to suppose they might have had a pianist on set playing a
transcription of the music for them to work to?
Richard Crowley
> Is it ridiculous to suppose they might have had a pianist on set
> playing a
> transcription of the music for them to work to?
Maybe if the pianist could be connected to the 3-phase
synchronous system. :-)
Doc
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dn9hcd$ief$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> The camera has a 3-phase motor on it, which goes to a switch panel in
> the studio. There's a padded room with a sound camera somewhere else
> in the studio, and that machine _only_ lays down an optical track. It
> is synchronized to the camera because it also has an identical motor
> in it, locked to the same source. In this way, sound and picture
> can both be recorded in synch, on different films for later editing.
But what were the actors performing to during filming to keep them in steady
rhythm, and the correct tempo for the later dubbed in music/voiceover
including tempo changes, pauses, rubato sections etc.
Excellent info btw, thanks.
videochas www.locoworks.com
Or, on disks. I have an ancient book called "Recording Sound for
Motion Pictures" which shows how to prepare a wax disk for recording.
The disk was available for immediate playback for synch, while the
sound film would have to be processed.
As for mixing orchestra for cartoons, I can refer you to a CD titled
"The Carl Stalling Project", an issue of session tapes from the golden
age of Warner Brothers cartoons. In the liner notes you will see a
photo of the orchestra with two booms holding what appear to be RCA
77DX microphones above the group. The "mixing" was done by the
musicians, it seems.
Doc
"Richard Crowley" <rcro...@xpr7t.net> wrote in message
news:11pgmlu...@corp.supernews.com...
Why would they have to be if they're not using the actual on-set sound for
the final film?
Paul Stamler
I would assume that the entire musical track has been pre-recorded, and that
they are dancing to and lip-synching with it.
Peace,
Paul
Blair Carmichael
> I would assume that the entire musical track has been pre-recorded, and that
> they are dancing to and lip-synching with it.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
Hence the term:
Roll Playback!
Frank Stearns
>news:11pgmlu...@corp.supernews.com...
>> "Doc" wrote ...
>> > Is it ridiculous to suppose they might have had a pianist on set
>> > playing a
>> > transcription of the music for them to work to?
>>
>> Maybe if the pianist could be connected to the 3-phase
>> synchronous system. :-)
How about a 3-phase sync motor on the MPEG streams handled by various
broadcasters/networks??? (WB and PBS seem to need it the most at times.)
"Modern" broadcast video seems to *still* have major sync problems --
sometimes it's so far off I have to turn it off -- too annoying to watch.
(Better for me anyway, no doubt.)
Is this a network problem or an affiliate problem?
Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio
--
.
Roger W. Norman
and have a real performance of the piece rehearsed. And I'm not real sure,
but I think tape was a little new in the '48 timeframe to be used for
playback at major film studios yet, so it was ultimately off a live studio
recording on shellac. Certainly it's more efficient to do it that way
although they might have used actual lathed pressings.
--
Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"Is our children learning?"
President George W. Bush
"Paul Stamler" <pstaml...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:Zu_lf.247009$zb5.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Scott Dorsey
A playback of that material, played on a playback machine in the
sound room, also locked in synch. And it wouldn't be dubbed in,
it would just be handed to the editor as the sound track for the
shot (which would have been on a seperate film strip, just as if
it has been recorded live during the shoot).
Just like we do today for rock videos with the Nagra.
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
which blows everything. Second, each of the many performances required to cover
all the photography would be a different length, and more difficult to cut the
final picture. The joy of playback fixes both these problems.
John
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
Its a transmission problem. The processing required to do satellite transmission
introduces some latency in the picture, and less in the audio. Its disgraceful
that professional broadcast engineers employed by the satlinks and networks
don't bother to delay the audio to match the video.
John
Joe
> Its a transmission problem. The processing required to do satellite transmission
> introduces some latency in the picture, and less in the audio. Its disgraceful
> that professional broadcast engineers employed by the satlinks and networks
> don't bother to delay the audio to match the video.
>
> John
some networks do delay audio by a frame or two to match video.......it
happens because of the extensive audio processing thru the dolby chain
especially now with the surround sound-mixdown etc...going thru the
different stages before leaving the broadcast center...Joe.
Doc
"Blair Carmichael" <bl...@bbcrecorders.com> wrote in message
news:1134066254.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ah, I see.
Peter
after leaving the broadcast center. I would think its in the cable
boxes, tuners and televisions, especially digital ones.
I see varying sync issues all the time in commercial DVDs. I feel
certain they seemed in sync on the mixing stage and mastering facility.
But everyone's sync is different now. Depending on how the computers on
the stage processes video, sync could be different on two different
monitors.
My hope is that someone devises a method to resync right in your living
room once video and audio have been fully processed. A sync bit in
picture and one in the final outputted sound could be resolved
continuously to the subframe, regardless of any errors in the chain,
with just an automatically adjustable delay.
(If no one is working on this yet, consider this prior art!)
Peter
Scott Dorsey
>My hope is that someone devises a method to resync right in your living
>room once video and audio have been fully processed. A sync bit in
>picture and one in the final outputted sound could be resolved
>continuously to the subframe, regardless of any errors in the chain,
>with just an automatically adjustable delay.
The problem is that most end viewers just don't seem to care.
My parents have DirecTV. I go over to their house and walk by the TV
set and often see it as much as a quarter second out of synch and it
just drives me up the wall. My parents don't even notice it. They are
used to thinking I am out of my mind, though.
Frank Stearns
Ah ha. Quite interesting; thanks for the info, John and Joe.
It is indeed unbelievable that pro engineers don't tweak the delay times
to keep things in sync. I guess the view that "audio is a necessary
annoyance" is still held by some in the television/satellite engineering
community.
Just out of curiousity -- should the "last in line" (the local affiliate)
have any responsibility to make final timing touch-ups before the
signal hits the transmitter, or do they shrug and say "not our department"
or "we can't do anything about it"?
Thanks for the comments
Frank
Mobile Audio
--
.
William Sommerwerck
create a visual "flash" that would guide the performers.
Scott Dorsey
>Disney supposedly invented the process of marking the edge of the film to
>create a visual "flash" that would guide the performers.
Okay, that's streamers. That's for the opposite, when the orchestral score
needs to be synched up to existing picture.
William Sommerwerck
>> the film to create a visual "flash" that would guide the performers.
> Okay, that's streamers. That's for the opposite, when the orchestral
> score needs to be synched up to existing picture.
I've always been puzzled about pre-recording using film. The film in the
camera could be up to +/- half a frame out of sync with the performer's
lips.
Les Cargill
It's a WGAF,A problem. Drives me up the wall. And now *movies* ( or
at least DVDs ) are doing it, too.
--
Les Cargill
Joe
IT's TRIVIA TIME!
"Steamboat Willie" (1928) was the first animated short cartoon
with synchronized sound. What made "Steamboat Willie" special was its
use of simple sound effects, mated with music and vocal talent. The
cartoon was a precursor to be able to use sound more as a storytelling
device, rather than as a novelty device.
.....In 1940, Disney struck again with experimenting with sound in two
different ways on "Fantasia." First, animators combine classical
compositions with their interpretation of the music, via animation.
Second, surround the movie audience with the sound reproduction of a
live orchestra. Disney felt that directional effects with the sound
seemingly coming from different parts of the screen or even from off
screen would add to the dramatic impact of the animation. Engineers
invented Fantasound, which used "four mono optical sound tracks as
follows: 1. Control track; 2. Screen left; 3. Screen right; and 4.
Screen center" to create a stereophonic effect. The process and the
film, unfortunately, would not receive recognition for years to come.
However, in 1948, there was another surround sound experiment on David
O. Selznick's, "Portrait of Jennie." It was only used once during a
preview in Oakland, California. Soundman James G. Stewart developed the
system.
above written by William Kallay.
Joe.
Joe
....lip-sync problems are caused by both encoders and decoders. even
the retransmission point can cause this to happen. any device in the
chain that processes the bit stream could incorrectly place or read the
display time stamps for the audio and video packets. this would cause
the out-of-sync condition. this can also be caused by the amount of
memory in a decoding device. this is an industry-wide issue. it's
causing several headaches....people are not talking to each
other......,broadcasters,sat tech's and local affiliates need to do
some brainstorming.Joe.
Lorin David Schultz
>
> [...] Its disgraceful that professional broadcast engineers employed
> by the satlinks and networks don't bother to delay the audio to match
> the video.
We do, but once it leaves our plant we're at the mercy of whoever
delivers it to the viewer.
--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good
(Remove spamblock to reply)
Bob Olhsson
> "Modern" broadcast video seems to *still* have major sync problems --
> sometimes it's so far off I have to turn it off -- too annoying to watch.
> (Better for me anyway, no doubt.)
>
> Is this a network problem or an affiliate problem?
It's an engineering design problem. Edison managed to get it right a
century ago but today's digital engineers can't seem to engineer their
way out of a paper bag. As long as the stock market speculators don't
care (or know any better,) competent systems design seems to be out the
window.
--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
Joe brought up a factor that I had left out, the local cable companies. They
downlink stuff and I'm sure make -no- corrections for latencies that come in or
that they generate. I mean, for eighty bucks a month, you think Comcast cares
whether your TV shows are in sync?
John
Bob Olhsson
> ... Its disgraceful that professional broadcast engineers employed by
> the satlinks and networks don't bother to delay the audio to match the
> video.
They can't because it's a moving target. The video coding only transmits
the changes to the picture which is constantly varying. The theory is
that everything gets hooked back up in the playback buffer but anything
interrupting the signal (such as switching in a local station break)
means the stream needs to be restarted from the top in order to
establish sync. A dear friend of mine rolls his eyes and pronounces that
it's the first time the FCC has ever mandated vaperware!
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
> "G. John Garrett, C.A.S" <j...@soundcartREMOVE.com> wrote:
>
>>[...] Its disgraceful that professional broadcast engineers employed
>>by the satlinks and networks don't bother to delay the audio to match
>>the video.
>
>
>
>
> We do, but once it leaves our plant we're at the mercy of whoever
> delivers it to the viewer.
>
Oh, I'm not saying all the BC engineers are asleep at the wheel, not by a long
shot. I often work with one I consider one of the best in the biz. Its not just
that "It sounded fine leaving here," but that there are so many "here's"
nowadays, and my guess is the guys getting paid the least [ie cable systems]
probably have the least training and fewest tools......
John
Richard Crowley
> I've always been puzzled about pre-recording using film. The film in
> the
> camera could be up to +/- half a frame out of sync with the
> performer's
> lips.
A frame of 35mm is four sprocket holes, so it is easy
to slip by 1-hole = 1/4 frame = 10ms increments.
tym...@hotmail.com
clappers on the slates, match the clap to the picture and sync up the
sound.
Scott Dorsey
They still do. At least of about an hour ago.
Willie K. Yee, MD
>In article <1134150825....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> <tym...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>And is this also where the term 'slate' came from? That's why they had
>>clappers on the slates, match the clap to the picture and sync up the
>>sound.
>
>They still do. At least of about an hour ago.
>--scott
I was in a documentary once, and the director would just clap his
hands in front of the camera after announcing the take data into the
mic.
Scott Dorsey
>On 9 Dec 2005 13:10:38 -0500, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>>In article <1134150825....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>> <tym...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>And is this also where the term 'slate' came from? That's why they had
>>>clappers on the slates, match the clap to the picture and sync up the
>>>sound.
>>
>>They still do. At least of about an hour ago.
>
>hands in front of the camera after announcing the take data into the
>mic.
I do that a lot. Also show fingers for the scene and take numbers
when you say it. Much easier when you have a small crew without a
person specifically to slate takes.
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
That works fine, but its harder to write scene/take/date/etc on the hands...
John
Frank
"G. John Garrett, C.A.S" <j...@soundcartREMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:g4KdnZN1BfPOgATe...@comcast.com...
Can a cable operator maintain sync on variable material from 100+ sources?
(Especially when the offset is variable)
Stuart
rick hollett
<room, also locked in synch. And it <wouldn't be dubbed in, it would just
be <handed to the editor as the sound track <for the shot (which would have
been <on a seperate film strip, just as if it has <been recorded live during
the shoot).>
It must get complicated in dance numbers(with singing) or are all the dance
steps pre-recorded as well? You'd have a shotgun following Gene Kelly all
over the room while he's syncing his moves to the playback. That mic will
likely get a lot of the playback as well, no?
Rick
William Sommerwerck
dance
> steps pre-recorded as well? You'd have a shotgun following Gene Kelly all
> over the room while he's syncing his moves to the playback. That mic will
> likely get a lot of the playback as well, no?
One method -- back in the '30s! -- was to transmit the sound through a loop
antenna to the dancer, who had a tiny receiver behind his ear. This allowed
the dancing to be miked live.
rick hollett
"William Sommerwerck" <gizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lPWdnRWvIf_3fwfe...@comcast.com...
Charles Tomaras
"Frank Stearns" <franks.pa...@pacifier.net> wrote in message
news:11ph0jb...@corp.supernews.com...
:-)
>
> How about a 3-phase sync motor on the MPEG streams handled by various
> broadcasters/networks??? (WB and PBS seem to need it the most at times.)
>
> sometimes it's so far off I have to turn it off -- too annoying to watch.
> (Better for me anyway, no doubt.)
>
> Is this a network problem or an affiliate problem?
>
> Mobile Audio
> --
> .
Frank, nearly 100% of the sync problems are due to late video and not late
audio. Many of the higher end AV amps now have variable audio delay built
in. I have a Denon 5800 and often find myself dialing in 50 - 70 ms of audio
delay to get stuff in sync when watching television. With all the different
ATSC standards out there it's gotten pretty difficult to isolate where the
offense is occurring because televisions and STB's that convert 1080i to
720P or any of the other permutations of those kinds of conversions are all
very capable of adding their own delays and issues.
videochas www.locoworks.com
into the shot and smack it to make a slate. It was easy to synch to
because it was a very unique sound. Kind of a "bloop".
Richard Crowley
>I worked with a sound man who would stick the shotgun with windscreen
> into the shot and smack it to make a slate. It was easy to synch to
> because it was a very unique sound. Kind of a "bloop".
Did he write the scene number and take number on his hand?
video guy - www.locoworks.com
It was run and shoot. No time to write.
roustabout
songs, was on set and played piano live as they filmed him. Each take
probably started off with a metronome tempo reference but this way he
could "ad lib" on set and wouldn't have to try and loop the ad libs
later.
During post the piano, which would have been muted with sound blankets
and not very audible on the production mic, was covered/augmented by
the orchestration.
Not an uncommon practice.
Listen to the bonus tracks on the Wizard of Oz DVD for another example
of this. Judy sang a reprise of "Over the Rainbow" while in the
Witch's throne room (just before Aunt Em in the crystal ball) and since
it was very rubato and she was crying in the take they decided this was
the best way to handle it.
Also: Rex Harrison in "My Fair Lady". Almost all of his songs were done
this was... and he wore an EARLY Vega radio mic to keep the track clean
of the piano.
Sound speed
Laurence Payne
wrote:
>I just watched "The Inspector General" with Danny Kaye. Really a superb
>movie, he was a heck of a performer. There's a bit where he does this song
>along with some facial contortions that are fairly involved and it got me to
>wondering about some things.
>
>Obviously his voice and the music that you actually hear in the film are
>dubbed in, but in '49 how would they have kept him doing his bit in a steady
>rhythm while they're filming so they can hit all his various facial
>contortions with the musical cues?
>
>For that matter, many of the vocals were very involved and tongue-twisty,
>how did they match the overdubs so closely to the film?
>
>It seems those old musicals really demanded a lot of the performers, often
>doing very intricate, very physical choreography in strict time in sometimes
>extended shots involving numerous actors, extras and props, not to mention
>the camera work that had to be choreographed as well. You mess it up toward
>the end, you gotta start all over.
It's quite likely the number was previously recorded with orchestra
and the filming was done to playback. But he was capable of
performing the routine live. Once rehearsed and perfected it's not
hard to reproduce - in fact it would be harder to perform it
*differently* :-)
William Sommerwerck
> a superb movie, he was a heck of a performer. There's a bit where
> he does this song along with some facial contortions that are fairly
> involved and it got me to wondering about some things.
Kaye was famous for his facial expressions. It's a shame most of his movies
are garbage (ie, he plays congenital idiots). "The Inspector General" is
good, and "The Court Jester" is one of the great movie farces. (See my
featured Amazon review.)
piasa_sound
I did a hidden cam expose doc many years ago and we used a Zippo
lighter as a slate! The cameraman had his Arri SR and my R.F. mic in a
small shoulder bag. (Of course this back in the day when one would
think nothing of lighting up in someone's office.) The Zippo was
perfect..it was black with chromed edges and makes a very distinctive
sound when the lid is shut.
Richard Crowley
> I did a hidden cam expose doc many years ago and we used a Zippo
> lighter as a slate! The cameraman had his Arri SR and my R.F. mic in a
> small shoulder bag. (Of course this back in the day when one would
> think nothing of lighting up in someone's office.) The Zippo was
> perfect..it was black with chromed edges and makes a very distinctive
> sound when the lid is shut.
Brilliant! You could do the same today with a "flip-phone", etc.
Les Cargill
From
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049096/quotes
Hawkins: I've got it! I've got it! The pellet with the poison's in
the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the
brew that is true! Right?
Griselda: Right. But there's been a change: they broke the chalice
from the palace!
Hawkins: They *broke* the chalice from the palace?
Griselda: And replaced it with a flagon.
Hawkins: A flagon...?
Griselda: With the figure of a dragon.
Hawkins: Flagon with a dragon.
Griselda: Right.
Hawkins: But did you put the pellet with the poison in the vessel
with the pestle?
Griselda: No! The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the
dragon! The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!
Hawkins: The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the
dragon; the vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true.
Griselda: Just remember that.
It just doesn't get any better than that.
--
Les Cargill
Lorin David Schultz
...which is a shame, really. One would hope that better could be had.
<g>
yokl
For my money, nobody did rapid-fire dialog better then the Marx Brothers
jjn...@sonic.net
Especially improptu. They were much funnier in real life than in their
movies.
Eric
analog television, most of the time there is only a few feet of coax
and audio cable between the IRD (sat receiver) and the modulator. The
exception is with local commerical insertion, but even then the length
of cable is about the same for both the audio and video. Digital video
comes to the headend as an ASI stream with embedded audio in various
flavors, usually Dolby digital.
The only time I could see introduction of sync errors may be if the
digital feed is run through a device called a groomer, which can break
down the asi streams (which are usually mulitplexed services) to their
individual feeds and re-mux them. This allows cable companies to mix
and match feeds instead of just taking the whole thing (which may have
up to 8 other channels that may not be wanted). It can also put hard
limits on bandwidth per stream to keep from exceeding the total (which
will show as blocking and freezing on the feed). These groomers are
usually run by advanced technicians/engineers, not your usual cable
guy, and are constantly being tweeked to get the best performance out
of the system (at least, that's what I've seen. Your miliage may
vary...).
Eric, a cable guy who wants to be a sound guy.