Help! SR Reciever in Unislot on Pan. SDX-900

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atlsoundguy

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May 24, 2008, 4:04:52 PM5/24/08
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Hey all,

I'm trying out my new SR in a Unislot for the first time, and I can't
figure out how to get it working so that I get two channels of
discreet audio. I've got the Divmode set to Switched, I got the
Mixmode on Direct and the switches on the camera both set to WL, but
no matter what I do, it sends channel one to both channels. Ugh!

Fortunately I have a backup saddlebag with external hookups, but darn
it, I wanted to drop it in that slot!

I've also gone thru the Operations menu on the camera and can't find
any options that would help me.

Anyone have an idea?

Thanks!

-Chris, http://ATLAudio.com

Oleg Kaizerman(gebe)

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May 24, 2008, 4:13:19 PM5/24/08
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i dont think it works without apdate from panasonic


Chuck Walter

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May 24, 2008, 4:43:57 PM5/24/08
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The pannys don't work as two channels from the unislot.

there was a post on this over on the creative cow forums in the hvx
group

Whitney Ince

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May 24, 2008, 6:00:25 PM5/24/08
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Chris,
Chuck is correct unislot only works with 1 channel :( I know but glad
you have all the cables needed for the external mounting and
operation.

Larry Fisher

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May 24, 2008, 6:09:48 PM5/24/08
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Hi Chris,
Panasonic has not enabled the second channel yet. They are right now
working on it and we have loaned them a complete SR system for their
tests. I also don't know for sure that they will enable it on older
cameras. We still have no news from Sony other than "no".

The SR with the 5 pin connector at the top is only solution at the
moment. We have shipped a few to the networks to make sure it
physically works with all the stuff that hangs on or protrudes from
the cameras. This link shows the 5 pin connector, though the most
current design has the connector pointing up with the connector
housing "wart" at about half the volume.

http://www.lectrosonics.com/hybrid/sr/sr.htm

Best,
Larry F
Lectro

Charles Tomaras

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May 24, 2008, 6:16:33 PM5/24/08
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"Larry Fisher" <Lectro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1m3h341i3gkn28vf4...@4ax.com...

> Hi Chris,
> Panasonic has not enabled the second channel yet. They are right now
> working on it and we have loaned them a complete SR system for their
> tests. I also don't know for sure that they will enable it on older
> cameras. We still have no news from Sony other than "no".
>
> The SR with the 5 pin connector at the top is only solution at the
> moment. We have shipped a few to the networks to make sure it
> physically works with all the stuff that hangs on or protrudes from
> the cameras. This link shows the 5 pin connector, though the most
> current design has the connector pointing up with the connector
> housing "wart" at about half the volume.
>
> http://www.lectrosonics.com/hybrid/sr/sr.htm
>
> Best,
> Larry F
> Lectro
>\

Larry,

Is the 5P mod something that can be user installed on the SR or is it a
complete standalone model feature that needs to be ordered as such?

Scott

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May 24, 2008, 6:26:44 PM5/24/08
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On May 24, 3:16 pm, "Charles Tomaras" <toma...@tomaras.com> wrote:
> "Larry Fisher" <Lectroson...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> news:1m3h341i3gkn28vf4...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > Hi Chris,
> > Panasonic has not enabled the second channel yet. They are right now
> > working on it and we have loaned them a complete SR system for their
> > tests. I also don't know for sure that they will enable it on older
> > cameras. We still have no news from Sony other than "no".
>
> > The SR with the 5 pin connector at the top is only solution at the
> > moment. We have shipped a few to the networks to make sure it
> > physically works with all the stuff that hangs on or protrudes from
> > the cameras. This link shows the 5 pin connector, though the most
> > current design has the connector pointing up with the connector
> > housing "wart" at about half the volume.
>
> >http://www.lectrosonics.com/hybrid/sr/sr.htm
>
> > Best,
> > Larry F
> > Lectro
> >\
>
> Larry,
>
> Is the 5P mod something that can be user installed on the SR or is it a
> complete standalone model feature that needs to be ordered as such?

Special Order as the TAM5 is hard wired

Joe

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May 24, 2008, 6:46:02 PM5/24/08
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Chris , does the SR unit with the external hookups work using the line
level inputs of the camera....or only mic level inputs ?
If it does work with the pannys line level inputs....is the SR output
level set to +5 or less.?
Thanks.

Larry Fisher

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May 24, 2008, 6:55:10 PM5/24/08
to
Scott and Charlie and Chris,
Correct. However, it may be possible to mod a non-5p unit. I will look
into it next week since it sounds like some users are going to get
caught in an odd situation by the camera manufacturers. You can bug me
if you don't hear back.
LarryF

On Sat, 24 May 2008 15:26:44 -0700 (PDT), Scott <sc...@farroutpro.com>
wrote:

>On May 24, 3:16 pm, "Charles Tomaras" <toma...@tomaras.com> wrote:
>> "Larry Fisher" <Lectroson...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>>

Scott

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May 24, 2008, 7:05:51 PM5/24/08
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On May 24, 3:46 pm, Joe <joecan...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Chris , does the SR unit with the external hookups work using the line
> level inputs of the camera....or only mic level inputs ?
> If it does work with the pannys line level inputs....is the SR output
> level set to +5 or less.?
> Thanks.

The SR outputs just the same as the UCR401/UCR411A which is the full
range (always line line and just attenuated)

Larry Fisher

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May 24, 2008, 11:25:09 PM5/24/08
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As Scott says, the 5 pin output is paralleled with the slot outputs
and is exactly what is indicated on the LCD at full modulation. If you
short the slot outputs or the 5 pin the other output will be affected.
LarryF

On Sat, 24 May 2008 16:05:51 -0700 (PDT), Scott <sc...@farroutpro.com>
wrote:

>On May 24, 3:46 pm, Joe <joecan...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

chicagoshootr

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May 24, 2008, 11:42:10 PM5/24/08
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On May 24, 6:05 pm, Scott <sc...@farroutpro.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 3:46 pm, Joe <joecan...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

"it sounds like some users are going to get
caught in an odd situation by the camera manufacturers"

Larry, I'm a new SR owner caught in that odd situation. I too have an
HDX and an SR that doesn't work, as advertised. To me, the odd
situation is that this product was released apparently without any
compatibility testing in Rio Rancho and is being distributed and sold
by dealers without any mention of it's limited useability. What were
the good folks at Lectro thinking?

I had to order the external mount (for about $120 bucks) so I can use
this unit until I hear if it's going to work with both channels in-
slot or not. From one report I've heard, the second channel pins in
the HDX slot are not only not enabled...they're not even wired. My
guess is that Panasonic won't mod existing units.

Oh, did I mention that my new SR doesn't work in my Sony HDW-730S
camera either?

All in all, it's been a pretty unsatisfying purchase.

Scott

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May 25, 2008, 12:33:49 AM5/25/08
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1stly it isnt lectrosonics fault that the camera doesnt provide full
support. The UniSlot specs say that it can support two channels of
audio and until lectro made the SR there wasnt a 2 channel unit on the
market. The grassvallel does fully support both channels and the new
Sony 700 series XDCAM will support 2 channels but only AES. so if your
unhappy call your camera rep and ask them why they dont design their
products to the UniSlot standards.

Sergio Sanmiguel

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May 25, 2008, 1:35:10 AM5/25/08
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I've been looking & can't find What's the unislot standards... can
anyone point me to that direction... ?!?!?
Thanks!
~
SS

Scott

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May 25, 2008, 3:17:38 AM5/25/08
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I just check the Ikegami website but link I had goes to a 404 page. I
suggest emailing them through the support page since they came up with
the standard and it is the copyright of Ikegami.

chicagoshootr

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May 25, 2008, 8:58:03 AM5/25/08
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> products to the UniSlot standards.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh BS Scott.
Lectro is just now sending a sample off to Panasonic for
testing...several weeks after the product has been released?
If I brought a new product to market, I would have done plenty of
testing before I made it available for sale.
It's kinda like selling a 2/3" zoom lens that fits all cameras, but
only zooms halfway on Sony and Panasonics.

The SR (like everything Lectro) works great...just not mounted in
cameras.

As a consumer and a long time user of Lectro products (I've given them
about $4K this month alone) I resent having to pay for the privilege
of being a beta tester for them.
I did as much research on this product as I possibly could before I
bought it. There wasn't much info available then...and there isn't any
more now.
As of today, there was still no mention anywhere on Lectro's website
of the fact that the product doesn't actually offer two channel
operation for almost all cameras.
I made them aware of it weeks ago. I talked to somebody
there...probably Larry. He mentioned they had received other calls
about it. I'll just bet they have.
He said they may put something in the FAQ's on the Lectro website. I
just checked...It's still not there. Makes you wonder.

There is a Panasonic dealer near Lectro (VTS) and they usually have
several cameras in stock as demos. I wouldn't have been hard for
Lectro to snag some cameras for an afternoon of testing.
That's what I would have done....just to make sure my new product
actually worked before I shipped it.

Anyway, Lectro isn't the only bad player here. The camera
manufacturers can also share the blame for including the second
channel pins in the slots but not having them actually hooked up.
What everyone associated with this situation needs to do is
communicate. Lectro needs to put a compatability matrix on the SR
website, to let potential buyers know that the product may not be
right for them.
Panasonic and Sony should clearly state that the Unislots on their
cameras are mono-only.

Letro's new SR/5P is obviously in response to the many users that have
made the same unhappy discovery I have, and should be made available
to us early adopters that tested the product for them.

It's that simple.

Scott

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May 25, 2008, 11:01:10 AM5/25/08
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Sounds like you should return the SR

Scott

Charles Tomaras

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May 25, 2008, 11:36:54 AM5/25/08
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"chicagoshootr" <camera...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2e85008a-4177-45a0...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

.>I made them aware of it weeks ago. I talked to somebody


>there...probably Larry. He mentioned they had received other calls
>about it. I'll just bet they have.

Well, I don't think you provided any information they didn't already have.
Lectrosonics was aware of it at NAB before the product shipped and they were
frustrated by the lack of cooperation they were getting from the camera
manufactures. On the same subject.....the timecodeoutput on ALL Panasonic
cameras is screwy and Sound Devices can't get any cooperation or information
from ANYONE at Panasonic either.

Charles Tomaras
Seattle, WA

cmassey

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May 25, 2008, 1:44:54 PM5/25/08
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NO he shouldn't return the SR! Even if one channel is internally
connnected and he has to run a thin cable from the 5P to the XLR on
the back, it is WAY better than two receivers hanging off the camera!
Even more important if it is MY receievers getting the crap beat out
of them.

The SR is a very good device...it will function beautifully for a good
deal of what we do. The kind of thing where only one channel from the
mixer is needed, the other on the camera mic. And when we do need the
second channel, reach up, move the switch and all is right with the
world.

Yep, the shortcomings were all out there for us to read...Larry
acknowledged the problems they were having with SONY and PANNY, so if
you purchased you knew it would not work right now. It may in the
future, it may not. But one smaller, LIGHTER receiver in the slot is
better than the alternative we have all been using for a long time.

I sometimes think there is a undeclared contest to see just how much
CRAP a shooter can hang on his camera!!!!

cleve

Larry Fisher

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May 25, 2008, 2:05:14 PM5/25/08
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Hi Joe (?),
If I sound a little irritated in parts of this missive let me
apologize up front. Six months of frustration is coming out in a
single Sunday morning posting. We approached three camera
manufacturers a year ago about the SR dual channel receiver. Sony was
like talking to a granite wall; Panasonic was noncommittal; Ikegami
was enthusiastic, sent us cameras and was ready to make whatever mods
were necessary. Grass Valley, the fourth manufacturer, approached us
on their own and even sent out an engineer to the plant to make sure
they were compatible.

The Lectro SR outputs are built to the published specs of the Sony
slot and to the published Unislot specs for Panasonic and Ikegami. I
contend that it is not our fault that Sony and Panasonic are not
currently compatible on their side of the connector. These specs have
been around for years. This is a chicken and egg situation with the
egg being the new SR and the chicken being a mature brontosaurus. The
brontos have had no previous reason to spend the extra $5 to enable
the second slot channel because there had been no receivers to take
advantage of it. Now that the SR exists, they are slowly taking
notice. They are reacting only because the networks are saying, "The
SR exists, we want to buy it in the future, make your inputs
compatible."

We borrowed multiple Sony and Panasonic cameras long before release to
make sure we mechanically and electrically fit. We found that only
channel one was live on these cameras. When we asked, all we got was
silence or the equivalent. We had no one to even lend a receiver to.
As far as we could find out, the networks weren't getting answers
either and they had a lot more influence than our small company. To
further confuse things, up until about NAB 2008 we were being told by
some US camera sales people that the second channels were in fact
enabled and that the problem was on our side. Several weeks before NAB
we gave up and started cutting metal for a work around. The 5 pin top
connector become known as the "wart" or the "growth" at the plant
because it screwed up a clean design. That prototype wart was shown at
NAB and to the networks as our solution. And yes, we went to see all
the camera brontos at NAB since face to face will get results that
phone calls will not. Sony was munching leaves (greenbacks) from about
100 feet in the air and couldn't hear us from the forest floor,
Panasonic was friendly but waiting on word from farther up the spinal
cord, Ikegami (bless them) had an SR unit plugged in and working and
Grass Valley was friendly and ready to rock and roll. Odd how my
stupid bronto analogy seems to be dead on; the size of the bronto in
the US market is directly proportional to the reaction time of the
head to new inputs at the tail.

Later, at NAB, multiple suits (and very nice suits) showed up from
Panasonic to BUY a receiver from us, checkbook, literally, in hand.
Being the altruistic company that we are, we quickly volunteered to
send them a unit for free and that is where we are now. The NAB
turnaround is due to users and the networks finally getting the
attention of the higher ups at Panasonic at NAB. One mouse (Lectro)
cannot get the attention of the brontosaurus but a 1000 mice (users)
can. Once we had their attention (the right people), we are finding it
pretty smooth with many friendly emails back and forth. At the moment,
we only know that future production from Panasonic will have the
second channel activated. Current and older units are still up in the
air.

So, Panasonic is moving along, Ikegami and Grass Valley have been on
board from day one, and Sony is Sony. The only change on the Sony
stone wall is a very large, meticulously engraved "NO".

Where we are today, and this has all occurred in the last month, is
that we will stop stocking the standard wartless unit and just build
it to order. We will make only the 5 pin warted unit for factory stock
for the foreseeable future and make accessory cables to go between the
wart and the camera external inputs. Once the brontos change over, we
will go back to the original wartless unit as standard. We can convert
already purchased units of the standard SR to the warted SR for the
difference in price. For anyone that feels we misled them, we'll do it
at no charge. At the moment the whole thing is in flux and our
literature and web site haven't caught up.

One of the reasons we took so long to enter the slot receiver market
is that I didn't want our designs to be at the mercy of the brontos.
This was such things as current consumption, internal RF interference,
dimensions, audio specifications, etc. "Mr Bronto, Sir, would you
mind moving your left hind foot a quarter inch to the left, to free up
my tail? Oh, crap! No, please, your other left!"

Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics


Charles Tomaras

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May 25, 2008, 2:16:55 PM5/25/08
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"Larry Fisher" <Lectro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:v9ui3450rga8olen3...@4ax.com...


Larry,

I've got three SR's (two block 22, one block 29) due to drop ship from Rio
Rancho "by the end of the month" according to TAI. Will these shipping units
already in production have the wart or not as far as you know.

Thanks!

Charlie


Larry Fisher

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May 25, 2008, 2:37:25 PM5/25/08
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On Sun, 25 May 2008 11:16:55 -0700, "Charles Tomaras"
<tom...@tomaras.com> wrote:

Hi Charlie,
I don't think we will have the metal parts plated until the end of
June so your units will be wartless. We can hold them for now or
convert them down the road. We've changed the direction of the 5 pin
opening three times since NAB after sending samples to the networks.
One direction hit the Anton battery pack on one camera, another
direction stuck out to the right of a small camera and would hit
whatever surface the camera was laid on if the camera was put on its
side. At the moment, the connector is pointing straight up and we are
making a right angle 5 pin female plug to keep things compact with low
stress on the cable.

Switchcraft is currently working on a index-able 5 pin female that can
point in various directions (yay!). Once they finish theirs, we will
stop making our version. We told them price is no object. That those
poor sound mixers would pay anything for a right angle unit. Sorry
about that, but they needed an incentive to spend engineering time on
it.
Larry F

Charles Tomaras

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May 25, 2008, 2:48:18 PM5/25/08
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"Larry Fisher" <Lectro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kbj34p9bj0i69ba8...@4ax.com...

Larry,

Should I contact TAI to change that order or just tell you about it while
you are home on a holiday weekend and expect you to remember on Tuesday
morning? My thoughts are that you should hold my block 29 for the mod and
send the two block 22's since they are strictly for bag use and wouldn't
require the wart. And am I correct in my reading that having the wart does
not negate the use of any of the bottom adapters as long as it's not
shorted?

NOW...you mentioned "right angle 5 pin" in one of your statements above. Is
that a right angled TA5 style connector and if so...can we order those
connectors from Lectrosonics as no one else seems to make one? If so, is it
a "pretty" connector or does it look like something out of the Frankenstein
labs? How does the length of the connector compare to commonly available
straight connectors? Might want to order some for my bag.

Charlie


chicagoshootr

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May 25, 2008, 2:54:18 PM5/25/08
to

Well Larry, I do appreciate what you have been through.
If you feel like "the little guy," I invite you to be me for a day.

Yea, I vented a little here, too. But I do feel better about the
situation after your response.
So, are you thinking that a firmware upgrade will not solve the
problem on the HDX? I'm working in a vacuum here just like everybody
else.

I'd consider swapping my unit for one with a "wart." But I'm taking
it to the middle east with me in a couple of weeks and I definately
need something along that works...and in my hands...before I go.
That's why I just ordered a side mount and a couple of SM's to go
along with it.

Too bad about the wart...It does compromise an otherwise elegant (and
water resistant) design.

I'm done ranting. I hope all involved work it out. Do your customers a
favor and let them know the score.
It's a great concept...too bad it's not there, yet.

John (not Joe) Cummings
Cameralogic/Chicago
cameralogic.tv

Larry Fisher

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May 25, 2008, 3:35:03 PM5/25/08
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On Sun, 25 May 2008 11:48:18 -0700, "Charles Tomaras"
<tom...@tomaras.com> wrote:

Hi Charlie,
Best to contact TAI so all the paper work gets adjusted properly.
Bottom adapters are not affected. The 5 pin is wired in parallel to
the other outputs.

The Lectro 5 pin isn't too Frankensteinian but it only points in one
permanent direction and is sealed with hot glue, i.e., not repairable.
The Switchcraft part will be prettier, I certainly expect.
LarryF

Larry Fisher

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May 25, 2008, 3:44:30 PM5/25/08
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On Sun, 25 May 2008 11:54:18 -0700 (PDT), chicagoshootr
<camera...@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi John,
Under your circumstances, the side mount setup is the fastest current
solution. Later we can mod your unit with the wart. I don't think it
is just a firmware update on the camera and we have no indication that
Panasonic is going to "fix" units already built but what does the
mouse know.

We will add some additional info to the web site about compatibility
and make sure the dealers are up to date with a letter.
Best Regards,
Larry F
Lectro

atlsoundguy

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May 26, 2008, 11:40:12 AM5/26/08
to
Larry,

Thanks for being so pro-active. I would like to get a modded version.
Any inklings of when the Switchcraft "Wart" will be available?

-Chris Durfy, ATLaudio.com

Larry Fisher

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May 26, 2008, 1:43:53 PM5/26/08
to
Hi Chris,
The end of June for sure.
(I'm going to regret being firm on that date but there it is)
Best,
LarryF

ao

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May 30, 2008, 5:19:31 PM5/30/08
to


It's unfortunate that you did not check Ramps prior to your purchase.
Larry stated that it would be wise to wait if one needed 2 channels
via unislot. On the other hand, I should hope the lectro website is
updated soon with a caveat. You can only use the NAB excuse for so
long...

Ao

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