overly reverberant spaces
gregs...@hotmail.com
often am throwing sound blankets down on the ground, but sometimes
wonder what else could be done.
one time on a shoot we were in a medium to large size room with a
carpet in the center and hardwood floors from there to the walls - but
the space was so overly reverberant. i made and effort to line the
corners of the room with as many sound blankets as i could (trying to
create a bit of air space in there as well) hoping that maybe it might
tame some of the slapback. a lav wasn't an option considering the
costume on at least one of the characters, and there were as many wide
shots compared to closer mcu's and such (plus the double camera set-up
35mm cameras were quite noisy - oh and did i mention they shot a wide
on one with a close up on the other?)
i'm sure everything varies - especially on the more run and gun type of
productions. but are there any quick solutions to taming a room where
it might make some beneficial change?
in another scenario i put a blanket down (and taped a bit to secure) on
a hardwood floor because the female actors heels were clicking as loud
as she was speaking. it deadened the sound and helped a little i think
to kill some of the early reflections.
any thoughts? any stories?
-greg-
Eric Toline
overly reverberant spaces
Group: rec.arts.movies.production.sound Date: Sun, Apr 2, 2006, 1:38pm
(EDT-3) From: gregs...@hotmail.com
Try Billy Sarokins idea of having production buy about 100 large
balloons and a tank of helium. Inflate them and let them float up to the
ceiling.
Getting them down is a whole 'nother story.;-)))
Eric
Jason Porter
-Jason (...like shooting balloons in a gymnasium??)
"Eric Toline" <Audi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11504-443...@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net...
Courtney Goodin
<gregs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144010283.5...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> on set is there any quick way to control an overly reverberant room? i
> often am throwing sound blankets down on the ground, but sometimes
> wonder what else could be done.
General Rule, examine the room for parallel smooth surfaces. Hang a
Furniture pad or other sound absorbent material (curtains?) on at least 1
surface of any 2 parallel walls. If the room is rectangular, start by
setting up furniture pads in front of 2 adjacent walls. (hopefully out of
shot). The standing wave that is generated by perfectly parallel surfaces
can cause very long delay times.
If the grips are putting up blacks to cover the windows have them put them
on the Inside. So the black cloth can break up audio reflection while
stopping the light from entering the room.
Just putting things on the floor may not help if the walls are parallel and
reflective. Clap you hands and listen for any metallic sounding echo. That
could be from water pipes embedded in walls. These can be particularly
problematic. Try to cover that wall,
If they will be shooting in a non sound treated warehouse instead of a sound
stage, have the set construction people make sure they don't build
rectangular sets that are parallel to the warehouse walls. Offsetting them
by rotating them as little as 10 degrees off parallel can really improve the
sound and break up that awful "warehouse Echo"
Try to convince the director that shooting Wide and Tight at the same time
is a very stupid move and will greatly reduce the quality of the dialogue
recording.
---Courtney
Ty Ford
(in article <bNqdnY7WdKq...@comcast.com>):
In difficult situations, I always hand the director the headphones and let
the director make the call. If the track is going to be underscored with
heavy music, some problems will never be heard, others will be lessened. Just
make it their choice. (with witnesses)
Regards,
Ty Ford
-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Vinod S
of course, the lighting guys and grips have to be ok with it. not to
mention a baloon going pop during a take. it happens. :)
-vin
David Waelder
1144010283.5...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,
"gregs...@hotmail.com" <gregs...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> on set is there any quick way to control an overly reverberant room? i
> often am throwing sound blankets down on the ground, but sometimes
> wonder what else could be done.
Pads on the floor seem to have the best effect for me. Even a small pad can
be somewhat effective if a directional mike is pointed at it; conversely
even a large pad may be pissing in the ocean if it's deployed a distance
from where you are working in a large room.
And your instincts to try to pad corners are also good.
Packing the area with stray crew people can also be helpful if you can keep
them quiet.
I also find it useful to talk with the director and try to discourage
overlapping or closely spaced dialog. A reverberant room can have a great
sound if only one person talks and the echo has a chance to decay before the
next person speaks. But if someone speaks on top of the decaying echo, the
result is bedlam.
David Waelder
(working e-mail is my name + wae, my server is earthlink dot net)
Noah Timan
> on set is there any quick way to control an overly reverberant room? i
> often am throwing sound blankets down on the ground, but sometimes
> wonder what else could be done.
In my experience something soft on the ground -- unless you're really
going to go to town -- only really works in an obviously apparent way
on the space immediately in front of, or under, the actors. Try
carpets or mats with a rubber backing instead of furney pads. They're
worlds easier and quicker to tape down and pick up, and much less of a
lawsuit waiting to happen.
The usual combatant for bouncy rooms is a furniture pad or two on a
C-stand holding two split gobo arms -- it was called a "dragon" when I
came up but there are various other names for it as well. Send one
gobo through the receptacle of another and you come up with a "T" shape
on the stand. Bag it well and use #2 or #3 spring clamps to secure the
blankets to the arm structure. Then place the stand (or stands,
depending on how many you have time to make) in the corners, covering
where the hard surfaces meet each others, and -- if you can -- in gaps
closer to set where there is no light. These can also work well to
sort of emulate furniture when they move all the furniture out of the
room to make room for the dolly and so forth.
Really deadening the space is very difficult on a fast-moving show.
The stands with furney pads are always in the way -- or a light needs
to go where they would be effective, furney pads on the walls or floors
are always in shot sooner or later, and the same goes for carpets.
It's tough to negotiate the space to work to get all of that stuff up
while G&E is doing their thing, and of course the ADs are not going to
hand the set over to you every setup for ten minutes so you can make
acoustic adjustments. If you're going to go for it, it's going to be
exhausting. Make sure it achieves a real reduction in reverberation
and not just a theoretical one, or you're going to wear yourself out
(and potentially annoy everyone else) for very little reward.
Some years ago I worked on an indie movie called "The Business of
Strangers" that was set in a fancy, expensive airport hotel. During
prepro this was to be shot on a "sound stage", but by the time we got
to principal the "stage", due to budgetary constrictions, was a
hollow-sounding empty concrete warehouse. This was kind of a disaster,
since airport hotels of that ilk are generally about the dryest places
you can think of -- wall to wall carpet, low ceilings, etc etc. Having
it sound echoey and boomy would not make any aesthetic sense. Because
it was such a large space and the sets and lighting tended to be
confined to only a fraction of the working area, we were able to wall
off the shooting area with floor-to-ceiling 20x's of duvetyn normally
used for tenting out locations for day for night shooting. We had them
on a series of large rolling stands, and as soon as the basic lighting
was set up we'd wheel them in. It was a lot of work, but they made an
obvious and noticeable drying up of the reverb. Everyone was cool
about it and the only real daily battle was getting them to put video
village outside of the "tent" so I could make a tighter seal on the
set. (They eventually compromised on putting a small director's
monitor close to set and the bigger village outside).
But it's hard to conceive of doing that on most shows today. We were
able to achieve this then A) because the lighting setups were generally
confined to a small space and took a fair amount of time to get
together, B) most of the setups were one-overhead-mic scenarios in that
location and I didn't have a lot of actors to wire or plants to set, C)
the key grip was an old friend, and D) because the key grip was an old
friend (and because it was a non-union show) the grip department was
eventually okay with allowing the sound department to move and secure
these big stands all over set every day. (On a union show they'd
insist on having their department do it all themselves, and because
they'd be the ones who had to do all the work, it'd probably be a hard
sell, especially for days and days -- the stands would have to move out
at every gate-check and back in before we rolled something else).
The location may also force you into microphone choices you might not
otherwise make. Short shotguns don't do well in echoey places --
they're only going to emphasize the reverb. Try wider cardioids and
hypers, and lavs when those don't reach the subject.
Good luck!
Regards,
Noah Timan