HHB Portadat Basic Setup Tips...help appreciated

Dave

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Oct 4, 2003, 10:38:04 PM10/4/03

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Hi all,

I have yet to use the HHB Portadat but have a short upcoming shoot (35mm)
and the rented HHB Portadat for audio. I normally work only with video.
Can anyone direct me to a manual for the Portadat and perhaps give me a
basic rundown of the setup. I have a Shure FP33 available for a front end
mixer if necessary. Are there any "quirks" to the Poratdat that might
totally trip me up?

My main concern relative to the Portadat would be setting the frame rate,
jam syncing a timecode slate to the DAT, pre-roll time, setting levels,
confidence monitoring, etc. I would like to have done my homework on this
machine rather than going in cold under pressure.

Thanks once again everyone for any and all advice.

Cheers,

Dave

Eric Toline

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Oct 5, 2003, 5:26:14 PM10/5/03

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HHB Portadat Basic Setup Tips...help appreciated

Group: rec.arts.movies.production.sound Date: Sat, Oct 4, 2003, 10:38pm
From: dave.mc...@sympatico.ca (Dave)
Hi all,

I have yet to use the HHB Portadat but have a short upcoming shoot
(35mm) and the rented HHB Portadat for audio. I normally work only with
video. Can anyone direct me to a manual for the Portadat and perhaps
give me a basic rundown of the setup. I have a Shure FP33 available for
a front end mixer if necessary. Are there any "quirks" to the Poratdat
that might totally trip me up?

My main concern relative to the Portadat would be setting the frame
rate,<<<<<<<<<<<<

Camera at 24fps, Pdat at 30.

jam syncing a timecode slate to the DAT,<<<<<

TC out on pdat is stadard xlr, you'll need a matching cable with the
right connector to feed the sync box (1/8" mono) or if the sync unit is
bulit in I think it's a 1/4" mono. All the above is for Deneke slate.
Make sure the pdat is set to output source tc & not tape tc. Use free
run tc setting.

pre-roll time,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

about 5 sec is good.

setting levels,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Set your ixer to send "0" out. Set pdat to -20dbfs. Use line level out
to line level in.

confidence monitoring,<<<<<<<<<<

there's a switch on the front of the upper unit of the pdat with little
bumps on them. That's the "tape/source" toggle. Also there will be a
tape or source title in the display window.

Set the sample rate to 48k ( you have to open the top panel with the
"open" slide switch to get at it)

I would like to have done my homework on this machine rather than going
in cold under pressure.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

All the settings are out in the open and easy to see & use. Don't panic
and you'll be fine.

Eric

REMOVEIT@netvision.net.il Oleg Kaizerman

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Oct 5, 2003, 7:07:06 PM10/5/03

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Oleg Kaizerman" <kai...@netvision.net.il>
To: "Eric Toline" <Audi...@webtv.net>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: HHB Portadat Basic Setup Tips...help appreciated

> Avoid to work with internal bats they sucks ,keep it inside only for back
> up and tc memory ,If you still working with internal power ,remember, HHB
> doesn't remember tc when you change the bats ,but if you will put it on
ext
> power it will keep the tc in its memory.If the battery dead in the middle
of
> the take you will have to close and open again the power switch. The
power
> miter show the power of the source witch dat is using and not the internal
> only ,when you connecting ext source it automatically go there , when the
> ext collapse it going to internal without any reminder, so be careful.
> If you lost the tc you can put the machine on pb tc for the start of the
> take and start to record ,after the rec ,change the tc from pb to
> source,that's good for rec-run tc mode, for free run you will have to re
gem
> the slate.
> .Remember, when you start a new cassette and you reset the tc, it always
go
> to the last number that you insert before and not to 0000000000.
> If you use pno for taking notes ,the HHB doesn't remember the last one if
> you shout it down ,so you can run 5 sec and stop the machine,the next time
> when you will power ,the HHB will read the one that you stop in the
> middle,the next pno will be the last one +1 .
> The pno have two modes :
> 1) automatic ,it will write new pno every time you put the dat in record
> but the first one you will do manual,if it very silent take it will
> automatically add another one ( I think it under -40dfs).
> ,2) manual , then you push the button each take .
> Work with the first one.
> If you run only one mike ( 48 v only ,if it t power,you have to work with
> 33) ,its better to work directly to dat ,the pre amps are better than the
> Shure,the lo cut is 100hz .
> Open the limiter ,it will come only -2 bellow the 0dfs and will save your
> ass on high picks
> Remember there is no sound when there is no cassette inside
> There is no sound when you on pb head in stop mode
> There is no pause during the pno recording ,only stop.
> Remember ,the rca out is going parallel to the source/confidence head, if
> you run another recorder ,stay in one position during the take.
> If the dat from early version and it lost the a track from some reason it
> will not run back threw that point( it was changed in 98)
> READ THE MANUAL -TWICE
> Oleg Kaizerman (gebe) Hollyland

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Toline" <Audi...@webtv.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies.production.sound
> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 11:26 PM
> Subject: Re: HHB Portadat Basic Setup Tips...help appreciated
>
>
> >
> > HHB Portadat Basic Setup Tips...help appreciated
> >
> > Group: rec.arts.movies.production.sound Date: Sat, Oct 4, 2003, 10:38pm
> > From: dave.mc...@sympatico.ca (Dave)

> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have yet to use the HHB Portadat but have a short upcoming shoot
> > (35mm) and the rented HHB Portadat for audio. I normally work only with
> > video. Can anyone direct me to a manual for the Portadat and perhaps
> > give me a basic rundown of the setup. I have a Shure FP33 available for
> > a front end mixer if necessary. Are there any "quirks" to the Poratdat
> > that might totally trip me up?
> >
> > My main concern relative to the Portadat would be setting the frame
> > rate,<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >

> > Camera at 24fps, Pdat at 30.
> >
> >

> > jam syncing a timecode slate to the DAT,<<<<<
> >

> > TC out on pdat is stadard xlr, you'll need a matching cable with the
> > right connector to feed the sync box (1/8" mono) or if the sync unit is
> > bulit in I think it's a 1/4" mono. All the above is for Deneke slate.
> > Make sure the pdat is set to output source tc & not tape tc. Use free
> > run tc setting.
> >
> > pre-roll time,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >
> > about 5 sec is good.
> >
> >
> > setting levels,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> > Set your ixer to send "0" out. Set pdat to -20dbfs. Use line level out
> > to line level in.
> >
> >
> >
> > confidence monitoring,<<<<<<<<<<
> >
> > there's a switch on the front of the upper unit of the pdat with little
> > bumps on them. That's the "tape/source" toggle. Also there will be a
> > tape or source title in the display window.
> >
> > Set the sample rate to 48k ( you have to open the top panel with the
> > "open" slide switch to get at it)
> >
> >

> > I would like to have done my homework on this machine rather than going
> > in cold under pressure.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >

> > All the settings are out in the open and easy to see & use. Don't panic
> > and you'll be fine.
> >
> > Eric
> >

Dave

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Oct 5, 2003, 6:56:41 PM10/5/03

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Hi Eric,

Thanks very much for taking the time to offer your great advice...exactly
the details I need to know. I'll let you know how I make out after the
shoot. Cheers!

All the best,

Dave

"Eric Toline" <Audi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29846-3F8...@storefull-2316.public.lawson.webtv.net...

Wolf

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Oct 5, 2003, 9:47:38 PM10/5/03

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from my soon to be available book:

HHB PDR 1000 TC MS

Sept. 1996 News Flash: HHB came out with the PDR1000TC MS [master sync] that they say is accurate to 1 frame in 10 hours. Discontinued in 2001.

AES: November 1996 – the second generation MS models are out and available.

Features: HHB resolves to external TC. Headphone matrix switch to listen to stereo, mono sum, mono R, mono L, M/S. Custom NMH battery said to last 1-1/4 hours record. Auto switchover from external power to internal. Records at 32K, 44.1, 48 and now 48.048. Can do pull up from 29.97 to 30. New October 1996 version can record one TC in user bits while generating its own code.

This machine is said to now in 1998 to read the timecode the Fostex PD-4 puts on the tape.

From Mike Denecke for older PDR1000TC:
Accurate Record 30Fr-48K
Feed the HHB on its BNC video input with a 59.94Hz square wave from a Denecke SP2 (the sync box on the 59 setting) and set HHB to 30Fr TC at 48K sample rate. The HHB thinks it sees a normal video sync or black burst. HHB’s word sync and TC will line up and it will record as normally. The VIDEO LOCK light will come on. Now the HHB will run at a precise crystal based speed. Of course this patch was solved with the MS version available in the stores since Sept. 96.

Sexy New Sample Rate 30Fr- 48.048K
Feed the HHB on its BNC video input with 60Hz square-wave from a Denecke SP2 and set it for 29.97TC drop or ND as required and 48K. The HHB will speed up to 30TC drop or ND and 48.048K sample rate record. Again word sync and TC will line up. You have fooled the HHB into recording at 48.048K sample rate.
The usual cautions apply to this speed. Watch out for post!

HHB PDR1000TC MS Nov. '96: New 30 DF Switch
Cross resolving – PULL UP 29.97

When playing back a tape with 29.97 (48 or 44.21) drop or non-drop Timecode recorded on tape, Dave Missall from LSC tells us: turning the new 30DF switch ON, you will be playing tape at 30 frame speed with TC at 30 frame (drop or non as the tape originally was). The new DAT sample rate is 48.048 or 44.14 respectively. This is a pull up switch; ignore what the manual says. More on this on the next pages.

HHB Recording at 48.048
Set the front of machine menu to 29.97. Turn the 30 DF switch on left side of machine ON. The front display still shows 29.97 but the machine really records at 30Fr TC and 48.048 sample rate. The front panel sample rate display shows 48. It's true!

HHB Cross Resolving With External Sync Generator
Pull up: to play tape recorded at 29.97 at 30Fr, insert 60Hz on right machine BNC.

Pull down: to play tape recorded at 30Fr at 29.97, insert 59.94 on right of machine BNC.

Sync TC And Wordclock

The PortaDat will accept video sync as well as Ext. TC (unlike the Fostex PD4 which only jams to TC). You shouldn't lock to External TC if no wordclock is available. TC and wordclock must have a common reference. The sample rate (48K or 44.1K or whatever) is generated from the internal TC generator when there is no ext. (wordclock) sync signal. You can have a phase error between the sample rate and the Ext. TC which the HHB will tolerate. There should also be a warning of this mismatch but there is not! Hugh Robjohns adds: If a free-running timecode is recorded with out being locked to the sampling rate, the HHB will record it quite happily, and the tape will playback fine in an all-analogue suite, but in a digital suite a conflict will arise as the sampling rate (wordclock) requires the DAT to run at a speed matching the digital desk, and the timecode requires it to run at some marginally different speed. Depending on the replay machine in use (and how it has been configured), the most likely outcomes are either regular clicks as digital samples are lost, fizzing noises (same reason), big holes (same reason again but increasing severity), or a gradual loss of lip-sync as the board or deck decides to ignore the vagaries of the drifting code!

HHB - Start Mark ID (PNO Program Number)

Two choices are available:

Manual – an ID is written every time you push record.

Auto – an ID is written after you push record and again after 3 seconds of silence.

Transfer technicians who record on sprocketed film like start IDs just before the sticks because many DAT machines mute audio in shuttle making it hard to find slates. In this situation it is essential to have a manual start ID set button.

RCA Reinforcement
Location Sound Corp (of North Hollywood) are offering, free of charge, a punched stainless steel plate that you can fit to your HHB PortaDat machine to help take the strain from the phono (RCA) line-out connectors. Just contact the Service Manager with your address. He is at ser...@locationsound.com or phone 818 980 9891 ext. 311. They say no dealer enquiries.

MS Module - Aaton TC Plug: The Aaton Port (5 pin on left) wants to see 3V peak-peak TC SMPTE. The usual 1V p-p are not sufficient. There is a mod available. Call LSC.

Noise Problem: HHB has occasional noise problems with hardware relay contacts switching mic/line inputs internally. PNO placement: People dislike the new software that automatically puts PNO (start IDs) numbers on the tape every time you roll. You can add a PNO at the slate (after the required 10 second pre-roll for video transfer) if you want, but this creates twice as many PNOs on the roll. The PNO have to be spaced by 10 seconds.

PNO Storage: It is not possible for the PortaDat to store PNO'S whilst powered down. HHB tried to upgrade the software to allow this, but the software has no more memory available. The quickest way to pick up PNO after turning the PortaDat back on, is to ID search back 1 and then press FFWD as soon as the PNO is registered. Do not press 'end search' because this will take much longer. The machine will auto detect the end of the last recording (beginning of blank tape) ready for a new recording. If there can be absolutely no delay from power up to actual recording, then renumbering at the end of the day. The PD-4 will remember PNOs through power downs now.

Headphone Driver: the HHB does not like to drive low impedance headphones such as many Sony's. You will notice early distortion of high frequencies. Use Sennheiser instead. HHB recommends: HD465, HD475, HD535, HD545, HD25-13, HD480, Beyer DT48 (400 & 2K W vers.) Many people complain about severe lack of headroom of headphone amp.

Charger Problem: Mike Hall reports: If you use an external 12 volt battery hanging on a charger to power your HHB PDR1000 be advised that it may blow the HHB's internal voltage regulator (happened to me twice). The HHB will accept from 8 to 14 volts at 1 amp. When the Charger switches to fast charge mode (higher voltage), destructive spikes can occur. You then lose your machine for 7 to 10 days while it is repaired. Add a fast voltage regulator [with buffer capacitors and bypass diode] between the battery/charger and the HHB or use the Eco-Charge system (recommended to me by HHB). They would not warranty the repairs necessary due to my unregulated system. Other users have reported that the repair is minor and can be done in any well-equipped electronics shop. Also I hear: It is a disconnected earth (due to a failure not design) within the PSU which causes it not start or to shutdown. New PSUs should not have the problem.

Power Supply Problem
Seems that some HHB power supplies (RB110) have been reported in Britain to shut off under certain undefined power conditions. HHB maintenance is very much on top of this. Contact repair dept. HHB London: Paul Isaacs. Technical Service Manager, HHB. E-Mail: Paul....@hhb.co.uk Tel: 0181 962 5035 Also : use an AC line filter, seems some switching power supplies are adverse to noisy AC. Chris Price says: The trick is to lower the sensitivity of the current protection circuitry. Therefore put a 30 K resistor in parallel with resistor R213, since we did this mod we never experienced any problems, although it's fine in my opinion to have an independent charger with you (and also an extra power supply). For questions call Klaus at Ambient Recording

HHB- Ambient Master sync mod.

Tim_...@compuserve.com writes: Ambient do their own Master Sync mod for the PortaDat. It works well and does have the advantage that if you use other Ambient products such as the master slate and Lockit boxes they all can be calibrated together using the Master Controller. It also means that if you are using a non Ambient product such as a (later) Aaton, its drift can be measured and the Ambient gear calibrated to it. I am currently using four time-code PortaDat and a Master Slate on an Imax film and drift rates over say 16 hours are measured in hundredths of a frame. The Ambient Master Sync module is more expensive.

HHB CROSS RESOLVING

Dave Missall from Location Sound Corp. (LSC) (818)980-9891 provides the following table for HHB's pre-MS version:

HHB REACTION	HHB SET AT (for recording or play)		VIDEO INPUT FROM SYNC BOX
	FRAME RATE	SAMPLE RATE	HZ SQUARE WAVE	FRAME RATE	SAMPLE RATE
NO CHANGE	30 ND	48	60	30 ND	48
PULL DOWN	30 ND	48	59.94	29.97 ND	47.952

NO CHANGE	29.97 ND	48	59.94	29.97 ND	48
PULL UP	29.97 ND	48	60	30 ND	48.048

NO CHANGE	29.97 DROP	48	59.94	29.97 DROP	48
PULL UP	29.97 DROP	48	60	30 drop	48.048

NO CHANGE	30 ND	44.1	60	30 ND	44.1
PULL DOWN	30 ND	44.1	59.94	29.97 ND	44.056

NO CHANGE	29.97 ND	44.1	59.94	29.97 ND	44.1
PULL UP	29.97 ND	44.1	60	30 ND	44.14

Using a Denecke Dcode Syncbox, the HHB PDR 1000 TC can be pulled up or pulled down 1/10^th of 1% (0.1%) to match the situation required for playback or recording. The square wave is applied to the "Video/Word Sync" input on the side of the deck with a BNC to Mini (1/8) adapter from the "Out" jack on the Syncbox. The Syncbox is adjusted to produce a square wave from the rotary pot inside the battery compartment.

In playback you have to set the HHB to the framerate of the tape on front panel. The new MS switch on left side is the equivalent of feeding 60Hz to video input. The switch is mislabeled as ND. The HHB manual is wrong in its description.

The above reproduced with Dave's permission. I have not personally confirmed that these settings are correct.

Remote Control
For FULL FUNCTION remote control of the HHB PortaDats, D-15 & D-25. There is the standard version as pictured, then there is the dual machine version for 2 PortaDats. Each version is available with breakaway cables so that extensions of any length can be added. Standard HHB remote $175 Dual machine remote: $225 Eric Toline, 777 Riverside Drive, #1516 Coral Springs, Florida 33071 email address: audi...@webtv.net or tel/fax: (954)255-7628.