ZAXCOM - You have to read this !!
Jan Deca
Nearly a year and a half ago, myself and several colleagues purchased
9 Zaxcom Rx/Tx wireless systems.
Whereas in Europe it's not common to order this brand, I was really
impressed by the technology and the
specs. What I'd read on this forum and elsewhere convinced my
colleagues and I to
buy these sets for use in ENG / EFP, and also in drama and feature
films.
I ordered this set primarily because it was advertised to work
with mics that I already own and prefer to work with, DPA and more
so, Sanken.
Once ordered, a long period of waiting began. The sets arrived complete
(Stereo/Mono/MMT's) almost an entire YEAR after the first order.
According to Zaxcom all the set's had to be adjusted to work with DPA.
(and when they arrived some of them didn't even work with DPA ..)
BUT ...
After testing the new unit's with DPA and Sanken, we
discovered that there was a clear problem of interference with both
of types of microphones.
Eventually, after a nosebleading reaction of Zaxcom, we contacted DPA
ourselves and together with them, beta- tested this for Zaxcom,
DPA in Germany was willing to make a new adapted mic for Zaxcom ( the
DPA 4063-BMZ).
That means that WE could finally start using our sets. And Zaxcom has a
mic that works with their system... thank you Zaxcom.
You can understand that we weren't entirely pleased with the necessity
of
ordering this system, particularly in that Zaxcom advertised that
both their units were calibrated to function properly with both DPA
and Sanken.
The Sanken mics, however, still exhibited audible and unacceptable
Interference. again, thank you Zaxcom !
It's nearly 2 years now and we still have no news, no support from
Zaxcom. The only thing we hear is that Zaxcom is working on it,
together with
Sanken...
But WHY do they advertise that their system works with DPA and
SANKEN altough
there is very clear, audible interference ? Furthermore, that the
system's were assembled at zaxcom and tested ?
Zaxcom's statement is that the microphone company has to deal with
this and that it's not their fault that they interfere with digital
transmission !
Thank you Zaxcom, what do we care as customeres spending, losing our
money on you !!
Altough we are impressed by the promise of the system I can't fathom
why
they would build it and have neither Sanken nor DPA able to function
properly with it.
You can understand that I'm really dissapointed in all this story, I'm
a
Zaxcom user since the DEVA II , I'm wondering what there new wireless
system
will bring ....
It's hard to believe that we are the only one's that are experiencing
these problems. I'm wondering what others might have to say
concerning this
I've waited quite a while to post this here, mainly because I believed
in that company.
Glenn Sanders from Zaxcom will probably chime in here (I hope at the
very least he will read this).
I'm curious how he reacts on ramps, to be honest.
After sending him emails complaining, the only
thing he replies with is that they are working on it together with
Sanken.
and this for months and months ! And we bought 10 sankenmicrophones,
sitting on the shelf.
We paid almost 50.000 $ for these sets.. for waiting almost 2 years..
for betatesting
them ...
We lost a decent amount of money because we had to rent other systems
to
work with in the meantime.
I hope when Zaxcom will ship the new systems, they will have betatested
it
themselves.
I was even thinking of taking legal steps ?
They've costed us a lot of unforseen money and efforts.
I can even forward mails I've gotten from zaxcom if you doubt this
story ...
Best regards
Jan Deca
Brussels, Belgium
g...@zaxcom.com
Zaxcom has been pro-active on your behalf since the first problem was
reported with the DPA microphones and our system.
Before purchasing you tested our system with a DPA microphone supplied
by us and as a result of the tests decided to purchase. The microphones
you purchased from your dealer were never at our factory before you
started to use them. Zaxcom had no way to know that the batch of mics
obtained for you from a separate source would not work the way the mics
we had here at the factory would.
When you found the RF interference problem we went to work at once to
identify the cause. When the problem was found to be the microphones
themselves we were all over DPA to find a solution. Morton, the owner
of DPA, and Bruce Meyer in the US were directly involved and came up
with a fix. Even though it was not a problem with our system, Zaxcom
absorbed the cost of rewiring the new DPA mics that you now have.
DPA, it should be noted, was very helpful. We sent them a demo system
and with it they discovered the RF sensitivity in their microphones.
Today any DPA ordered for a Zaxcom mic will not have this issue. My
thanks to DPA for a quick resolution.
As for the Sanken microphones, the problem is sadly still going on. We
sent them a demo system and cannot get it back or any information if
and when a fix might be coming.
In the past Sanken mics worked very well with our system. As the mics
age they become RF sensitive. When our system came out we had no way to
know that a COS11 would perform differently 1-2 years down the road vs.
when it was new.
As a result of this new information we do not recommend Sanken mics at
this time and will not until they clean up the RF issues involved with
their product.
Zaxcom has been very proactive on your behalf behind the scenes working
with Sanken to correct the problem that is directly microphone related.
We contact Sanken of a very regular basis to ask the status and always
get told the same thing by them, that they're working on it, or the
tests aren't done, or something else along this line.
"It's nearly 2 years now and we still have no news, no support from
Zaxcom. The only thing we hear is that Zaxcom is working on it,
together with Sanken... "
This statement by you is in itself contradictory regarding news and
support.
The first purchase from us was sent from our factory in April of 2005,
not nearly 2 years ago.
Also, there is nothing we can do to fix a problem inside the capsule of
a Sanken microphone except what we have done - sent them a demo and
keep on top of them to find a solution. While I know you are
frustrated with the Sanken issue, please know that I am as well.
Zaxcom has been on top of this from day 1. If you would like to return
the Sankens to us for a full refund that would be fine. There are many
other choices that work with our system.
Countryman, Sennheiser, Sony and DPA to name a few.
Our customer support is among the best in the industry. Your assertion
that we are not on top of the issue could not be farther from the
truth, I am available almost every day for any customer that needs our
help and assistance. I look forward to receiving a fix from Sanken and
agree with you that it has taken much too long. Although at this time
I have no solution from Sanken, we will continue our efforts to get
Sanken to resolve the problem for you and ourselves.
We regret that it has taken Sanken so long to address the problem but
please know that there is nothing else we can do to get them to respond
to the situation.
Glenn Sanders
big...@verizon.net
the MMT transmitter and either a Schoeps or Sennheiser (40, 50 or 60).
I use Countryman B6 and Sanken COS-11 lavs on my Audio Ltd and Zaxcoms.
I have no problem with my B6's and usually no problem with the
Sankens. 3 of my 8 Sankens were very susceptible to AM RFI and I
'retired' them. It doesn't seem to be an issue of age, it's just some
Sankens are good and others not so good. So far I haven't had any that
were good turn bad. I don't know if it's a quality control issue at
Sanken or if they use elements from different suppliers. I mostly use
the B6's, but I pull out the Sankens when I know there will be very
loud screaming (the Sankens have 10db greater SPL). Since weeding out
the bad ones I don't have to think twice about using them. The Zaxcom
radios, which use AM modulation, revealed a weakness in many brands of
microphones. Some manufacturers jumped right on it (such as DPA),
others had to be prodded (Schoeps), and others don't recognize the
issue at all. Right now my cart is split between 6 Audio Ltd rf mics
and 3 Zaxcom. They've all learned to play nicely together (though it
took a while). When the new Zaxcom radios with recorders come out I'll
be switching my cart over to the digitals (though I'll probably keep
one or two of the Audio Ltds because I love the HX (Schoeps)
transmitter. It comes in VERY handy at times.
Jan, I'm curious, did all your Sankens exhibit the same degree of RFI?
Were they all purchased at the same time and do they have similar
serial numbers? Have you tried other Sankens?
Best,
Billy Sarokin
Jan Deca
I appreciate your quick response.
But what else can I say, that we are still left with a system from
around 50.000$ that doens't work they way you've advertised it working
! ?
" Before purchasing you tested our system with a DPA microphone
supplied
by us and as a result of the tests decided to purchase. The
microphones
you purchased from your dealer were never at our factory before you
started to use them. Zaxcom had no way to know that the batch of
mics
obtained for you from a separate source would not work the way the
mics
we had here at the factory would. "
I indeed tested a system with a working DPA, when we finally got the
other sets that exact same mic didn't perform the same way on all the
systems, some had RF issues, some didn't, it's not that we oredered 9
sets to be not compatible wich eachother..
(btw, that peticular mic was sended back to you and it never came
back, it was lost at Zaxcom.. )
And our dealer bought the DPA mic's you stated as working with your
set's, I'm happy that we found the problem so ohter people can now
benefit from it.
With the sankens, we sended back all our sets including the mics and
the Tx. You wired them and tested them and afterwards they STILL had
the RF interfence, why should we trust something that comes from Zaxcom
that says it works ?
" When you found the RF interference problem we went to work at
once to
identify the cause. When the problem was found to be the
microphones
themselves we were all over DPA to find a solution. Morton, the
owner
of DPA, and Bruce Meyer in the US were directly involved and came
up
with a fix. Even though it was not a problem with our system,
Zaxcom
absorbed the cost of rewiring the new DPA mics that you now have.
"
Why should WE found out that the system you promised and advertised as
working, does NOT work and has RF interference ?
Who absorbed the cost and effort of us betatesting this for you ??
" DPA, it should be noted, was very helpful. We sent them a demo
system
and with it they discovered the RF sensitivity in their
microphones.
Today any DPA ordered for a Zaxcom mic will not have this issue. My
thanks to DPA for a quick resolution."
My thanks to our dealer and my collegue's to first discover this
problem and then let you know so now because of us finding out, you
have finally a working mic.
" In the past Sanken mics worked very well with our system. As the
mics
age they become RF sensitive. When our system came out we had no
way to
know that a COS11 would perform differently 1-2 years down the road
vs.
when it was new. "
Glenn again, these mic's we ordered at zaxcom's, they were brand new,
They didn't work, even after the complete set's were sended back to you
!
The Sankens were the main reason I ordered your system, WE founded out
they don't really work together.
" Also, there is nothing we can do to fix a problem inside the
capsule of
a Sanken microphone except what we have done - sent them a demo and
keep on top of them to find a solution. While I know you are
frustrated with the Sanken issue, please know that I am as well.
Zaxcom has been on top of this from day 1. If you would like to
return
the Sankens to us for a full refund that would be fine. There are
many
other choices that work with our system. "
If you have been on top of this from day 1 why is that we had to found
out about the RF interfence ourselves and why is that you said your
system will work with sanken from day 1 ?
I still work with Sankens everyday on other analog systems, with great
results, So I still hope all our efforts as betatesters someday, we
will have a working set ?
Glenn I don't want to offend you our your company in any way,
I just don't understand why after reading your reply, it's almost that
zaxcom is a 'victim'
I don't think it's fair to just keep blaiming the Microphone's. For me
it's clear that your tests you did with the mics from day one, weren't
sufficiant, and we, the customers have to do further testing.
Do you think If we had bought systems from Lectrosonic our Micron or
Audio, we would be testing mic's for them ?
Have a nice RF - interference free weekend !
Jan Deca
We had 5 sankens ordered with our dealer, 5 came directly from zaxcom.
All the 10 mic's had some degree of RFi . If on one mic RFi was less on
one system, the same mic was worse on another set ..
I even recorded the RFi for Zaxcom, and mailed them the sound, after
our sets came back from zaxcom, together with wired Sanken mic's, still
didn't work compatible with eachother.
Because I work mainly with Sanken mic's and Dpa for years now I really
hoped Zaxcom was working they way they should and they way they said it
would ...
bsc-filmsoundportugal
If Zaxcom said that theyr gear works with both sanken and dpa
microphones, i should be able to buy one or the other and expect it to
work. No excuses!
Give the guy his money back!!
regards,
Bernardo Six Costa
big...@verizon.net
years ago when these units first came out. A couple more questions.
What frequency range are you working in. I remember the original
'fixes' worked well on block 21 which is commonly used here, but were
not as effective on my freqs, block 26, approx 680 mHz. When
researching the Schoeps we found the mic was much more susceptible to
rfi the higher the frequency. When we were able to pinpoint the issue
and verify it with a simple AM signal generator, we finally got
Schoeps' attention and they cured the problem very quickly (though not
inexpensively). btw, when I say 'we' I'm referring to Glenn at Zaxcom.
When I first started using the MMT and experiencing intermittent rfi I
sat down with Glenn on a number of ocassions to identify the problem
and come up with cures. After using the MMT a few times I couldn't go
back to analog radio booming, so I was determined to solve the problem.
At first we developed microphone cables that would prevent the rfi,
but obviously, that wouldn't solve your issue. The long term solution
was to discover the exact problem and bring it to the manufacturer.
And I know it doesn't help, but it really is a microphone issue. Most
mics are susceptible to rfi. Until the Zaxcom units came along, most
rfi was from FM sources. While FM rfi is measurable, in most cases it
is subsonic. AM rfi is different. Most of us have experienced it when
video transmitters on the Steadicam got too close to certain mics. AM
rfi sucks. I would wager that if you take a simple AM signal
generator, feed it a 1kHz tone, set it to the frequencies you operate
at and put it near a Sanken, the Sanken will detect that tone loud and
clear (even if plugged into an analog radio mic or directly into a
mixer).
So the question is where to go from here. Judging by Glenn's response
you were heard loud and clear at Zaxcom, but besides for venting I'm
not sure how your post will help your situation. How are the DPA mics
and Zaxcom wireless working together? Are you still using the Zaxcoms
or have you switched back to analog? Is the rfi getting in at the mic
element or the cable? I'd suggest a test. Connect a Sanken to an
analog radio mic and turn on a Zaxcom transmitter and run it near the
Sanken and see where the rfi is getting in. If it's in the cable,
perhaps some capacitors in the Lemo connector (small caps....) can cure
it. If it is the element that is suceptible, there probably isn't much
you can do except to get on Sanken's case. Glenn did add an emergency
'fix' to the transmitter, which is just a way to reduce transmitter
output power. Are you working in film? Theater? On sound stages?
It's not an ideal solution, but in the short term until you can return
the Sankens and get a mic with better rfi rejection, it might be a
possibility.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I use my Sankens all the time
(though the B6 is usually my first choice). I'm guessing, like many
Europeans, you work in the 800 mHz range. Perhaps Sankens are more
susceptible above my range (680).
btw, I never used the DPA mics. How do they compare to the Sankens?
Especially in terms of high SPL.
Good luck,
Billy Sarokin
Pietari Koskinen
> btw, I never used the DPA mics. How do they compare to the Sankens?
Are you talking about lavs? If yes, then the answer is an easy one. DPA
4060s sound much much better than Sanken COS-11s. It's like "after using
the 4060s a few times I couldn't go back to COS-11s".
Best,
Pietari
Richard Crowley
Not clear why it isn't Sanken that should be taking the heat for this.
Particuarly after Mr. Sanders explanation of the variable performance
of the Sankens over time. (And the less than admirable response from
Sanken).
S Harber
Send it all back.
You are paying top dollar and the item isn't working.
Life's too short to spend that kind of money and effort to help them
sort out THEIR shortcomings.
Scott Harber
Martin Harrington
step !!!!!"
Martin Harrington
"bsc-filmsoundportugal" <berna...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139002147....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
big...@verizon.net
Countryman have learned how to march quite well! I'm not meaning to
be flip towards Jan's issue, but it sounds like he has 3 choices.
Either replace the Sankens, replace the Zaxcoms or lean on Sanken to
come up with a fix. The long term benefit for all of us is option 3.
I haven't heard anyone complaining about the new improved Schoeps (and
I would wager a guess they built in the improved rfi rejection into
their beautiful new shotgun)
Best,
Billy Sarokin
mma...@earthlink.net
Matt
g...@zaxcom.com
develop some sensitivity to RF. I believe this could happen due to the
cable shield flexing and gaps opening up in the shield. This is just a
theory though.
I did talk to Plus 24 yesterday (USA Sanken distributor) on the
subject. They reported to me that they did not see any problem with the
mics at this time. When this does happen with the COS11 (and it is not
with all of them) it is at a very low level usually 1 to 3 dB above the
microphone noise floor.
I strongly confirmed to them that there is an RF problem with the COS11
capsule and sent them a test mic that should help them identify the
issue. I asked Jim Pace at Plus 24 to post here to explain what they
are doing to resolve the situation.
When this is fixed by Sanken it will eliminate Blackberry and Mobile
phone interference to the microphone capsule when used on FM systems as
well so in the end everyone will benefit.
Glenn
Jan Deca
I really don't want to bitch to much on Zaxcom at all.
Me and other collegues are really using these sets in film and TV shows
on a daily basis.
When we finally got the new made DPA mic's, they do work wonderfull
well with Zaxcom.
I used the MMT on filmsets for a wireless boom, and I don't want to go
back.
But i don't agree with the policy of Zaxcom to advertise, and sell
their systems with specs that won't work ! Why should WE, the paying
customer, sort out their shortcomings ?
I don't think this post will change anything on our situation. I will
still use my zaxcoms with great pleasure, who knows someday with a
sanken !
I just hope that zaxcom will think twice before releasing the promising
new system the have announced...
You should check the website of ZAXCOM, only now they've changed their
microphone recommendations. The sanken isn't listed anymore, for DPA
they have the new adapted mic listed.
If they are on top of this, why changing this only now ? They know
this for months and months !
Something is changing then ?
The only customer support I really appreciated was from our dealer here
in Belgium, who did everything they could for us to get our sets
working.
Regards,
Jan Deca
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
> What would make the sankens become more RFI susceptible with age?
>
> Matt
>
Connections/solder joints that degrade over time can turn circuits into
diodes...and Zaxcom radios are like AM.
John
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
> I really don't want to bitch to much on Zaxcom at all.
> Me and other collegues are really using these sets in film and TV shows
> on a daily basis.
>
> When we finally got the new made DPA mic's, they do work wonderfull
> well with Zaxcom.
> I used the MMT on filmsets for a wireless boom, and I don't want to go
> back.
>
> But i don't agree with the policy of Zaxcom to advertise, and sell
> their systems with specs that won't work ! Why should WE, the paying
> customer, sort out their shortcomings ?
Which spec do you claim is wrong?
John
Jan Deca
Zaxcom sold their system to us not knowing that the microphones they
recommanded didn't work.
We had to find out that DPA microphones (Zaxcom advised any 3,3v DPA
mic will do) didn't work at all together with their system.
And for Sanken the same, we've sended all our systems back to Zaxcom,
they tested and wired them for us with Sanken, but when they returned
they still had very audible RFi.
regards
Jan
Marty
I understand your frustration and you are rightly so. However, I think
you should try to understand the relationships between the
manufacturers, and the issues causing the incompatibility.
The susceptibility of various equipment to radio frequencies and
modulations typically found on video and film sets has always been
somewhat of a problem that a certain amount of shielding has been
sufficient to protect against. But have you ever heard the effects of a
2-way radio when keyed-on close to audio or video equipment? How about
the noise generated by a Nextel phone in close proximity? That the noise
is being picked up is not the fault of the 2-way radio or the cell
phone, but of the equipment so poorly shielded that it is receiving
these radio signals.
There are a hundred lavaliere microphones out there, and scores of
shotgun mics. Zaxcom neither manufactures nor endorses any of them. What
they have done is taken SAMPLES of the more popular microphones and
tested them for RF susceptibility. If a mic manufacturer makes any
changes in their production method, tooling, raw materials, etc. that
affect their RF sensitivity, or if over time their aging makes them more
sensitive, you can hardly hold Zaxcom responsible.
To Zaxcom's credit, after these problems were discovered an diagnosed,
they took the initiative to contact several mic manufacturers and made
commendable efforts to work with all of them on resolving the problem
with THEIR microphones, even sending them samples of Zaxcom radios (not
cheap)!
With all due respect, I think you should be taking your frustration out
on the mic manufacturers as only they can correct their products'
shortcomings.
Marty Atias
ATS Communications
Jan Deca
Marty,
I'm working as a soundrecordist on film and tv shows.
I'm totally aware of the susceptibility of various equipment to radio
frequencies and
modulations typically found on video and film. I battle with walkies,
babyphones, policeradio's every day.
<<To Zaxcom's credit, after these problems were discovered an
diagnosed,
<<they took the initiative to contact several mic manufacturers and
made
<<commendable efforts to work with all of them on resolving the problem
<<with THEIR microphones, even sending them samples of Zaxcom radios
(not
<<cheap)!
WE, the paying customer discovered and diagnosed this for THEM !
sending back our systems, and once returned not working at all ! ( not
cheap for us, after paying 50.000$ and not be able to work with it)
I do certainly not want to take my frustration out on the mic
manufactures at all !!
If the people at DPA didn't make us a special adapted mic (after WE
discovererd that the mic's zaxcom said would work, didn't work at all)
, we couldn't work at all with our new system.
We bought the mic's ZAXCOM had tested and recommanded.
The last day's people mailing me privately off this list, to tell me
their story with Zaxcom.
complaining about the same things.They all have the same frustration
that almost everything that comes out of Z. is not really ready for
release. I've heard stories from Cameo and Deva users, all about the
same.
I will still continue to use and probably buy zaxcom gear.
But why shouldn't we complain about this ? Why can't zaxcom release
something that just works ?
I will not post any further on this topic. I think I made my point.
Martin Harrington
care...it's not their problem....
I'm a potential buyer, but only because Lectro haven't come out with a
substitute ....YET.
Please Lectro...save us.
Martin Harrington
"Marty" <Ma...@atscomms.com> wrote in message
news:eQDFf.13122$vU2....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Oleg Kaizerman
:-)
not to mention it will be incredible cheap.
--
Oleg Kaizerman (gebe) Hollyland
"Martin Harrington" <len...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:GPZFf.246752$V7.9...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Billy Sarokin
things. One, when Lectro (and Audio Ltd) finally come out with digital
radios they will be great products and two: they will use AM modulation
and expose the same problems in rfi sensitive microphones as the
Zaxcoms and three: by then, any serious mic maker will have fixed
their designs to remove said sensitivity and four, by the time Lectro
releases theirs Zaxcom will be on their 3rd or 4th generation and
digital radio mics and will still be way ahead of the competition.
All the best,
Billy Sarokin
Douglas Tourtelot
is nothing to say that when the Lectro digital RF transmitters make their
way to the market that they won't be competition killers. Their VR systems
shows that innovative thinking is not the domain of only one company.
D.
"Billy Sarokin" <big...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1139324342.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
> Zaxcom are the ones causing a lot of
manufacturers to finally build their stuff to work near AM RF sources,
its a shame the susceptibilities are being made apparrant now, but when Sanken,
etc start building products that don't act like receivers everybody will benefit.
Fixed that for ya.
John
Billy Sarokin
to see what they announce. As shown with the current crop of NL
recorders, competition is a great thing. In this case, as with the
first Deva, Zaxcom is a good 4 years ahead of the competition. I was
told that at the recent gathering of British mixers many of the rf
manufacturers gave presentations. Audio Ltd said something to the
effect that they would like to develop a digital radio system but they
then went on to mention the daunting list of problems (not enough
bandwidth, very power hungry, poor range, etc). Zaxcom solved these
problems 4 years ago, and now they are on the verge of releasing their
2nd generation. When Lectro and Audio do solve the problems they'll
come out with great units. I just hope they use the same mic connector
as Zaxcom so we can interchange them!
Billy
Charles Tomaras
I just wish Zaxcom used the same connector as Lectrosonics so we can
interchange them. I think if they had from the beginning they would have had
additional adopters as the US is pretty much Lectrosonics land for the
legions of ENG guys out there. Every time I've had a Zaxcom for a demo I've
had to use the supplied mic which completely prevented me from making some
of the mic evaluations I would have preferred to make.
g...@zaxcom.com
transmitter. As our TRX900 is a transmitter, recorder and IFB receiver
there is no extra room for big connectors.
We have standardized on the 3 pin lemo that Sennheiser uses. This
should make things a little better in the compatability department.
Glenn
Oleg Kaizerman
Its quit stupid to think that someone is choosing gear because its
connectors
no one complained about sennheisers for adages( the sk ) , so....
we all whish that the connector will be as cheap as possible and not lemo
:-)
and even with lectrosonics you have to re wire all the mics to match the SM
and new UM .
Austin Storms
What about the Lectro SM? That uses a TA5F and its the smallest TX
available. I agree the TA5F is a better solution since its easy to
wire in the field if something goes wrong.
Austin Storms
Charles Tomaras
"Oleg Kaizerman" <kaiz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43e8e3ac$0$64377$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
>
> Its quit stupid to think that someone is choosing gear because its
> connectors
> no one complained about sennheisers for adages( the sk ) , so....
> we all whish that the connector will be as cheap as possible and not lemo
> :-)
> and even with lectrosonics you have to re wire all the mics to match the
> SM and new UM .
I have 12 B-6's in varying colors and output levels. If I were to add one or
two Zaxcom's to my current setup of 8 Lectrosonics 205's I'd be in a world
of confusion trying to make it all work and keep track of what mic works
with what transmitter. All of my shotgun and Schoeps mics have a single
standard connector and I need that same sort of consistency for my lavaliers
if I am to retain my sanity. I like all my trims set the same way etc etc.
In this way I can concentrate on mixing and not matching.
Douglas Tourtelot
try a new transmitter with a gazuie connector (they are 27.50 ea. at
Allied), would I rewire my mics to check it out? If someone used a CamLok
connector on a very fine RF mic pack, would you buy it. Connectors,
ergonomics, appearance, ease-of-use, as well as performance and reliability
are all perfectly un-stupid reasons for selecting a product.
D.
"Oleg Kaizerman" <kaiz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43e8e3ac$0$64377$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
>
Billy Sarokin
transmitters. Even if they all used the same connector, each has
different charateristics which mean different wirings and even sets of
components within the connector. I bought a Sanken CUB a couple of
years ago and it was a nightmare getting it wired correctly for an
Audio Ltd. Sanken would give one wiring diagram and Audio Ltd another.
As it turns out, they were both wrong. That's because Audio Ltd
didn't have the Sanken Cub and Sanken didn't have an Audio Ltd. Royal
pain in the butt.
Billy
g...@zaxcom.com
the belt clip case is on the SM I do not believe there is a significant
physical difference in size.
Due to TRX digital transmitter circuitry, IFB receiver, Flash recorder,
antenna connector, power switch, instant access battery door system and
large LCD backlit display there is no room for a TA5 that would have
increased the size of the unit beyond what I wanted. It would not be
impossible to design in but we decided to go with Sennheiser
compatibility as the connectors were smaller and suited our needs
better.
I think you have to balance very carefully between size and usability.
I think there is such a thing as too small when it affects day-to-day
usage in a negative way. There is also too big. I think we got the
TRX900 just right.
Martin Harrington
The little "smiley", doesn't make it any less so.
Martin Harrington
"Oleg Kaizerman" <kaiz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43e875c7$0$77197$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
Oleg Kaizerman
--
Oleg Kaizerman (gebe) Hollyland
"Martin Harrington" <len...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:t08Gf.81$yK1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Oleg Kaizerman
sennheiser and few sony gods know how it calls for couple of 810 -
you have to make your choice , or you need another system or you don't
27 50 - for the man with 150000 equip , you kidding right, good you deont
want to buy AUDIO LTD its around 40 each :-)
--
Oleg Kaizerman (gebe) Hollyland
"Douglas Tourtelot" <tour...@nospanspeakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:MaKdnfzYF4z...@giganews.com...
Douglas Tourtelot
years ago, but saying that you think that connector continuity is "stupid."
You are a waste of my on-line time. See ya! Plonk (after all these years,
I finally tired of you calling me stupid)
BTW asshole, it's $16,000 less now. Sold the SX-S.
D.
"Oleg Kaizerman" <kaiz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43e91eb7$0$14604$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
Oleg Kaizerman
>I don't get it Troll. Do you get into lots of bar fights? I made my
>choice years ago, but saying that you think that connector continuity is
>"stupid."
I said it stupid not make choice about the gear you need because the
connector , and your wiping about it is not making someone be so impress to
make that change
> You are a waste of my on-line time. See ya! Plonk (after all these
> years, I finally tired of you calling me stupid)
I never called you stupid , I might think that the "cheap buster" idea flue
in my mind
>
> BTW asshole, it's $16,000 less now. Sold the SX-S.
after you sold it by 8 or less ( don't knot who will give a you more then
6500, in France you can find it for even less), I find you stupid if you
did insured it for 16 all these years
I thick Doug you need to recalculate your insurance , then you will find few
bucks for the connectors
BAR FIGHTS - You did to much b movies
Marty
Jan Deca wrote:
> Marty,
> I'm working as a soundrecordist on film and tv shows.
> I'm totally aware of the susceptibility of various equipment to radio
> frequencies and
> modulations typically found on video and film. I battle with walkies,
> babyphones, policeradio's every day.
>
>
As we all do (I am also a working sound recordist). If you have a wire
with a bad shield, it will pick up RF. Is it not the wire's fault? If
you have a poorly shielded recorder, microphone, or mixer, it will pick
up nearby TV or radio stations or other transmitters. Is it the
transmitter's fault? If you hear noise from a digital cell phone in your
audio, is it the phone's fault, or should the audio equipment be better
shielded against RF intrusion?
Is it so difficult to believe that it takes two to Tango? I remember
many years ago, anyone living within a half mile of a TV or radio
station, or nearby high tension power distribution lines could not get
good over the air radio or TV reception until the FCC forced receiver
manufacturers to improve the shielding in their products.
The fact is that digital transmission uses a different type of
modulation than analog FM does, but this is by no means unique. Digital
transmission is all over the RF spectrum and growing by the day.
The fact is that these microphones are poorly shielded and their audio
circuits are not RF bypassed. That means that any RF can get into the
mic. However, FM RF will affect the mic differently than AM (digital)
RF. With FM, RF intrusion could cause a very high frequency tone, or
shift the DC baseline of the output of a transformerless mic. These
effects may not be audible, but they are there, and they could affect a
recording. Digital AM RF will sound like noise.
As I understand it, what is actually happening is that the RF is
entering the mic capsule from the (poorly shielded) wire or XLR
connector, where it is being demodulated and amplified by the mic's
internal preamp and sent back out as audio. That would be true for any
RF. The fix that Zaxcom has been trying to get these mic manufacturers
to do is to either provide better RF shielding or to add a very
inexpensive low pass filter set above 20kHz inside the mic capsule, or both.
Some of them have recognized the problem and had the smarts to realize
that they want their mic to be compatible with this new technology in
wireless mic systems, so they made the necessary changes. Schoeps added
the filter in their CMC body, and DPA put them in their adapters
(technically not the best place). Countryman and Sennheiser made their
mics right the first time, but sadly, Sanken and some others have been
less insightful.
Marty Atias
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
>That's why I said theirs would be a great product! I'm eagerly waiting
>to see what they announce. As shown with the current crop of NL
>recorders, competition is a great thing. In this case, as with the
>first Deva, Zaxcom is a good 4 years ahead of the competition.
Lectro has already a 700 series out for a few years isn;t it ?
R
Jan Deca
>
> Some of them have recognized the problem and had the smarts to realize
> that they want their mic to be compatible with this new technology in
> wireless mic systems, so they made the necessary changes. Schoeps added
> the filter in their CMC body, and DPA put them in their adapters
> (technically not the best place). Countryman and Sennheiser made their
> mics right the first time, but sadly, Sanken and some others have been
> less insightful.
>
> Marty Atias
Marty,
I start to believe that you're on the payroll of Zaxcom ??
Is it so hard to understand that we paid a lot of money and WE put a
lot of effort to test Zaxcom's systems ?
If Zaxcom made a systems that causes RFi in microphones. I don't blame
Zaxcom.
But if Zaxcom sells those systems stating they work. And they do not at
all !
I do blame Zaxcom. ! !
DPA made a new adapted microphone, after WE discovererd this.
THey didn't put it in the adapter, but made a special 'shielded' mic .
Countryman didn't had this right from the first time, they made an
adapted mic also
And I hear now, the last day's, Sanken will be on top of this to.
because of our combined efforts...
Why is it that you as a dealer doens't understand our problems.
At least our dealer in Belgium (ESvideo) understands clearly the
problem and is helping to solve it a lot.
Not like you blaiming RF and Microphones .
Regards
Jan Deca
g...@zaxcom.com
Only the Zaxcom system is a broadcast quality system with audio
superior to FM wireless. The 700 series is suitable for corporate and
industrial situations where audio quality is not important and security
is. There are many other differences but audio quality is the defining
factor. The 700 series is also not marketed to the film TV market and
is not available in Europe due to it wideband modulation.
There is a very wide gap in the level of technology required to build a
broadcast system vs a industrial system.
Glenn
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
>>Some of them have recognized the problem and had the smarts to realize
>>that they want their mic to be compatible with this new technology in
>>wireless mic systems, so they made the necessary changes. Schoeps added
>>the filter in their CMC body, and DPA put them in their adapters
>>(technically not the best place). Countryman and Sennheiser made their
>>mics right the first time, but sadly, Sanken and some others have been
>>less insightful.
>>
>>Marty Atias
>
>
>
> Marty,
>
> I start to believe that you're on the payroll of Zaxcom ??
> Is it so hard to understand that we paid a lot of money and WE put a
> lot of effort to test Zaxcom's systems ?
> If Zaxcom made a systems that causes RFi in microphones. I don't blame
> Zaxcom.
> But if Zaxcom sells those systems stating they work. And they do not at
> all !
> I do blame Zaxcom. ! !
Then you are just wrong. Look at the communication laws and the specifications
for radio emissions. The Zaxcom radios [I'll bet] are completely within their
emission specs as defined by law. You have some mics that are behaving like
crappy radio receivers and blaming Zaxcom for that. You should know better than
that.
>
> DPA made a new adapted microphone, after WE discovererd this.
> THey didn't put it in the adapter, but made a special 'shielded' mic .
> Countryman didn't had this right from the first time, they made an
> adapted mic also
> And I hear now, the last day's, Sanken will be on top of this to.
> because of our combined efforts...
>
>
> Why is it that you as a dealer doens't understand our problems.
Who sold you the crappy radio receivers? Are you complaining to them too?
>
> At least our dealer in Belgium (ESvideo) understands clearly the
> problem and is helping to solve it a lot.
> Not like you blaiming RF and Microphones .
So what is the problem then? Mirrors? Smoke??? There is ONE scientific
explanation for your problem, your mics are susceptible to RF. Period.
John
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
> At least our dealer in Belgium (ESvideo) understands clearly the
> problem and is helping to solve it a lot.
> Not like you blaiming RF and Microphones .
Look Jan, I understand you spent a lot of money and are frustrated with having
mics that are under-engineered. I would be too. Just don't go off on a tear
before you understand what the problem is.
John
Suresh Rajamani
Jan,
In spite of being part of the group there are certain things
you don't seem to understand. I enumerate them for your benefit :-
1. No other enterprise in the field of audio has ever done the kind of
research Zaxcom has done since Edison said 'Mary had a little
lamb'.
2. No other company has the kind of customer support that Zaxcom has.
3. If you have any issues with a Zaxcom product it is not because the
product has any issues with it. It is because you don't understand
'ABC" of sound recoding.
Suresh Rajamani.
Larry Fisher
<~-¦-y¤e-¦*@l¤e€s.com> wrote:
>
>Lectro has already a 700 series out for a few years isn;t it ?
>
>R
Hi Roberto,
Thanks for pointing that out. The 700 series equipment has
significantly less AM modulation than some other systems and works
with minimal bypassing on many popular mics. It also has a full 20kHz
bandwidth with distortion of .05% and a dynamic range greater than 100
dB before limiting. Though we've never tried to pass it off as perfect
nor market as a portable unit, it does sound pretty good. (We've had
success in industrial settings particularly those where they
manufacture golden ear trumpets.)
The spec sheet is here:
http://www.lectrosonics.com/wireless/700/udr700td.pdf
One other misconception, that appears to be inculcating itself in this
group is that digital transmission requires an AM component. There are
spectrally efficient schemes that do have a large AM component but
there are more ways than one to skin a skunk.
There are also many standard modulation schemes for "digital"
transmission that do not have AM components in the signal. Gaussian
minimum shift keying (GMSK) as used in the GSM system (European cell
phone system):
http://www.emc.york.ac.uk/reports/linkpcp/appD.pdf
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
Charles Tomaras
"Larry Fisher" <lar...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:gp8ku1l85485o77au...@4ax.com...
> Hi Roberto,
> Thanks for pointing that out. The 700 series equipment has
> significantly less AM modulation than some other systems and works
> with minimal bypassing on many popular mics. It also has a full 20kHz
> bandwidth with distortion of .05% and a dynamic range greater than 100
> dB before limiting. Though we've never tried to pass it off as perfect
> nor market as a portable unit, it does sound pretty good. (We've had
> success in industrial settings particularly those where they
> manufacture golden ear trumpets.)
> The spec sheet is here:
> http://www.lectrosonics.com/wireless/700/udr700td.pdf
Larry, any thoughts in the future with digital of have a 48k sampling rate
as opposed to the 44.1 that the 700 provides and outputs from it's digital
output. Also curious if any production sound mixers have used a rack of
these for their mega cart systems that you are aware of.
Douglas Tourtelot
Nice to see a manufacturer who can plainly state the facts without
self-egrandizing "chest thumping" and without speaking about the
deficincies of other manufacturer's products.
D.
"Larry Fisher" <lar...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:gp8ku1l85485o77au...@4ax.com...
Douglas Tourtelot
Point #3 is a bit overstated. The product COULD very well have issues (many
products do, few don't) and to speak about the guy's knowledge of the "ABC"s
is a little arogent, don't you think. Unless you know him better than I do,
it would be hard to speak about his abailities.
All it sounds like to me is that he has some equipment that doesn't work
like he thinks it should, and that he isn't getting what HE considers the
proper amount of customer service on those pieces. If you haven't had the
experience of frustration over some piece of VERY expensive equipment
letting you down on the job, don't worry. You will. And then you'll want
it made right, no buck-passing, no excuses.
D.
"Suresh Rajamani" <suresh....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139420059.2...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Suresh Rajamani
Doug,
I did not mean to be arrogant. Maybe I just overdid the
sarcasm a bit, it seems to have had the opposite effect.
SR
Suresh Rajamani
India how can I not, where equiment rental rates are very low and where
very few manfacturers have service setups.
SR
g...@zaxcom.com
"When Lectro and Audio do solve the problems they'll
come out with great units."
I am also sure that when Lectrosonics brings to market a Digital
wireless system for broadcast use it will be a very good system.
In answering Roberto's question on the 700 series it is only fair and
reasonable to point out that this system is not used in or marketed to
the broadcast industry and therefore is apples and oranges compared to
a broadcast capable product.
Of course there are different digital modulation systems available and
different specifications for each system that is not the point. Since
Billy's statement is only a reference to a wireless system that he
could purchase and use for Film or television production, the 700
series is not under consideration. I am sure he was only referring to
the future introduction of digital wireless microphones capable of
broadcast quality audio transmission.
Glenn
Jan Deca
In spite of being part of the group there are certain things
you don't seem to understand. I enumerate them for your benefit
:-
3. If you have any issues with a Zaxcom product it is
not because the
product has any issues with it. It is because you don't
understand
'ABC" of sound recoding.
Suresh Rajamani.
I think this sort of comments is very low and arrogant.
The only thing I wanted to say on this topic (again) is that Zaxcom
sold us a system including the microphones, tested them after we
returned all the sets and they still had RFi, Dpa mic's as well as
Sanken. so we paid 50.000 $ for 9 zaxcom Tx/Rx and we couldn't work at
all.
John wrote ;
You have some mics that are behaving like
crappy radio receivers and blaming Zaxcom for that. You should know
better than
that.
Well, I do know better than that, trust me...
The crappy radio receivers microphones were ordered by us at Zaxcom.
they didn't work at all !
If this topic is about people doubting my ABC knowledge or thinking
that I don't understand what the problem is .. than this is the last
said by me.
I know that this very day, Sanken in Japan is finally on top of this
issue and will probably, just like Dpa, come with a solution that we
can all benefit from.
Isn't that what's it's all about ?
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
<suresh....@gmail.com> schreef:
>
> Doug,
> I did not mean to be arrogant. Maybe I just overdid the
>sarcasm a bit, it seems to have had the opposite effect.
Not with everyone .
R ( had a very good laugh )
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
>I think Roberto's point was to question Billys comment.
>
>I am sure he was only referring to
>the future introduction of digital wireless microphones capable of
>broadcast quality audio transmission.
No. what i mean is that not all mfg's let users do the R&D.
But i leave the comments to people like Jan, who actually use your
products.
Your company has a responsibility towards it's customers, and
advertising A means delivering A, I think these rules are very clear
in the US.
Did your Company offer him some sort of compensation for his effort
to solve the trouble himself ?
R
Suresh Rajamani
SR
Martin Harrington
MH
"Suresh Rajamani" <suresh....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139420059.2...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
g...@zaxcom.com
have contributed to it and feel the need to add a few last thoughts.
I am sure Jan and his fellow sound mixers are excellent and know their
craft. I am sure it was our audio quality over all other wireless
systems that attracted them to our product in the first place. The only
issue that he currently has is the performance of the Sanken mics with
our system. Sanken in Japan has acknowledged to our dealer in Belgium
that they are aware that they have an RF problem and are very willing
to fix it with our help.
Only good will come out of this for everyone as cell phones,
blackberries, video transmitters and our transmitters will no longer
effect the Sanken microphone capsule.
I am very happy that Jan expressed his satisfaction with our system
once DPA fixed the problem on their end. The only thing that really
matters here is that Sanken fix the problem. We will do everything we
can help them find a fix as soon as possible. This should be much
sooner than later. I want to thank Jan for going public with this as I
think it has caused Sanken to come to the table to resolve the issue in
a more timely fashion.
Glenn
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
> I think we got the
>TRX900 just right.
Well, speaking of being off topic & dumping freebee PR here , i just
left that LA area, but this looks interesting
http://www.locationsound.com/PDF/RF_Seminar.pdf
especially number 5..the venue bag system.
Hope that LSC can do some sort of WWW-presentation of this event, for
those who live 9000 miles away .
R
Billy Sarokin
Lectro has already a 700 series out for a few years isn't it ?
Apples and oranges, it weighs 3.5 lbs and is only 44.1K (we all record
at 48K) and is not portable.
http://www.lectrosonics.com/wireless/700/udr700td.pdf
But yes, it is fully digital and it is a first step. Maybe Lectro will
surprise us. (It would not make sense to announce a new product until
it was ready for sale because it would hurt sales of their existing
products). Anything imminent? In the meantime, anyone know anyone
using them in the field? Any reports?
Billy Sarokin
Thanks for your usual highquality technical description. Curious
though, why the quotes around "digital"? I don't know much about GMSK
but I'm also curious how rfi susceptible equipment reacts to it. lol,
I hope we don't discover new microphone flaws when your radios come
out!! Schoeps would REALLY be pissed :-)
Billy
Suresh Rajamani
I just want to make it clear that I am not in any questioning Jan's
knowledge of sound, mixing etc. It is was just a sarcastic take on the
'help' he was getting in this forum. Like I said earlier maybe I
overdid the sarcasm, which made it sound like the opposite of what was
being meant.
Suresh Rajamani
Bombay, India
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
> by the time Lectro
>releases theirs Zaxcom will be on their 3rd or 4th generation and
>digital radio mics and will still be way ahead of the competition.
Hmm, you have used this argument before, when the PD6 and Cantar came
out. The deva 4 and 5 would be way ahead of the competition..
Now, after the 2 year delayed beta release of the 4 and 5, I'm not
sure if anyone takes this argument serious here.
Also, why not concentrate on the actual problem, basically Zaxcom was
advertising something that did not work, and the customer had to take
action to let it work.
Doesn't your Country has a great history in customers sueing company's
who make false claims ?
R
Oscar Lovnér
(Zaxcom) really need to get there act together is the QC, I have had some of
the problems that you speak of Jan and things forgotten in shipment, screws
not tight, etc. but I have always got a good respond from Zaxcom and they
have fixed everything. The problem for us in Europe is that there is a lot
of trouble and money involved every time we need to get something fixed
since there is no service over here and everything needs to be shipped to
Zaxcom for service (from me in the northern part of Sweden to NJ,US usually
takes more than 7 (working) days there and back with FedEx not included the
service time and if customs thinks they need to figure out if everything is
ok...).
And to Jan, I fully understand your point, Zaxcom sold you a system that
where supposed to work a certain way and it did not... If a manufacturer
tells you that this kit will work, then you should be able to trust that,
not think that parts of the kit won't work.
I think that some of the problem is also that we use a higher freq than US
and the same values for the caps in the HF block does not work as well as as
in US. Is there any other people out there that use the European blocks?
Oscar Lovnér
Sound Image
i artikel [ARTICLE], skrev [NAME] pĺ [ADDRESS] den [DATE]:
Billy Sarokin
"you have used this argument before, when the PD6 and Cantar came
out. The deva 4 and 5 would be way ahead of the competition..
Now, after the 2 year delayed beta release of the 4 and 5, I'm not
sure if anyone takes this argument serious here."
Quite the contrary.
" basically Zaxcom was
advertising something that did not work, and the customer had to take
action to let it work.
Doesn't your Country has a great history in customers sueing company's
who make false claims ?"
And yes, I agree that Zaxcom should not have sold the Sanken mics.
Even though they tested Sankens and believed they worked, they later
discovered that Sankens are not consistent in their rfi performance. I
would imagine that they discovered this after they sold them to Jan,
but that issue I'll leave to Jan and Zaxcom to work out. But as an
analogy, if Duracell made faulty batteries would you blame Lectrosonics
if they damaged their transmitters?
I'll quote from an email I received yesterday.
"Hi Billy,
The big point here that you touched upon is that Zaxcom is doing
something no one else has...AGAIN. Therefore they are paving the way
for future manufactuers AGAIN. When going into uncharted territory,
who
knows what issues will crop up until they happen? By the time the
other
manufacturers catch up, Zaxcom will have identified and solved these
problems AGAIN!
Therefore, like all audio pioneers, Zaxcom has the arrows in the back
in
order to prove and perfect their new technology, AGAIN.
Thanks for letting me post to you, rather than the group. I feel
better
already."
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
>And yes, I agree that Zaxcom should not have sold the Sanken mics.
And not advertise it.. My guess is that one day they will get a nasty
claim ($) from a user. ( i would )
Snipped the usual paving the way BS.
R
Larry Fisher
The reason for the quotes is that I over use them "!".
I was just thinking that transmission is transmission and that digital
transmission is not digital in the sense of ones and zeros in the RF
domain but good old phase and amplitude modulation. It can be done in
some very unique ways, a lot of which boggle my little mind. I did
want to point out that a digital signal does not have to have an AM
component though using both amplitude and phase modulation does make
the transmission more spectrally efficient (less RF bandwidth).
From what I've read, GMSK generates less RFI since the AM component is
very small. GMSK has only a phase component. If you looked at a phase
amplitude diagram (constellation plot) you would just have a circle.
Any AM is accidental. I do know that our 700 series modulation scheme,
which has less AM (but more than GMSK), also has less RFI. An earlier
scheme with more AM did have more RFI. It does seem logical.
This is not to knock schemes that have more AM. There are spectral
advantages to those schemes and all design is a compromise.
Incidentally, I agree that the various microphones and audio products
should be immune to RFI by design. My sympathies to the experienced
audio designer that gets yanked into the world of RF. Technology
always has its little surprises.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
On 8 Feb 2006 20:36:09 -0800, "Billy Sarokin" <big...@verizon.net>
wrote:
S Harber
I find it very on topic as this thread is a reflection of Zaxcom's
overselling it feature sets of various products when the features don't
exist. ie the firewire out on the Devas not allowing real time external
hard drive recording much less the differing sample/tc rate on the
external drive.
How many unimplemented aspects are there to the Deva 4/5s that are
still being advertised as part of the system being sold.
The DPAs didn't work. Zaxcom sold $50K of wireless on the basis that
the DPAs would work. They didn't.
I have nothing but great admiration for your technical acheivements at
Zaxcom and you definitely deserve lots of kudos but I find this
overselling aspect to your company to be somewhat unscrupulous.
In my world, if I overstated my capabilities and then came that short
of those statements I'd be looking for another job, plain and simple.
Scott Harber
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
>Glenn,
>
>I find it very on topic as this thread is a reflection of Zaxcom's
>overselling it feature sets of various products when the features don't
>exist. ie the firewire out on the Devas not allowing real time external
>hard drive recording much less the differing sample/tc rate on the
>external drive.
Interesting, Bill S. never mentioned this when we discussed the
delivery on FW drives.
So the Deva 4 and 5 are not able to run 2 HD's at the same time ?
That would explain the fact that some Deva users are running 2
machines.
R
Billy Sarokin
You are correct, the Deva does not output to the FW port during record,
it mirrors immediately afterwards. Whether it mirrors or writes in
real time had no bearing on the issue in the thread about the benefits
and drawbacks of submitting either DVD/RAM discs or Hard Drives to
post. As with all the prominent machines you can submit either (or
DVD-R). That thread covered all the pertinent points. No need to
rehash it here.
As for owning two Deva 5s, I can only speak for myself. I like to have
a 2nd machine built for 'over the shoulder' use in many circumstances.
I also often use it (and of course charge additional rental) when B
unit runs off to film something that I believe should not be MOS. I
send my third out (who gets a mixer rate bump) with the 2nd Deva. I'll
also use it for quick changeovers from 'on the cart' work to
freewheeling car mode when necessary. And lastly, no matter what
machine you are using, it's always good to have a back-up on the truck
incase of a major failure. Especially since I can be a bit of a klutz
at times (klutz=accident prone in NewYorklish). I do not run the 2nd
Deva simultaneously as back-up. Nor do I run any backup. I have
full confidence in the Deva 5 and the DVD/RAM mirror disc. I have had
hard drives fail over the years, so I do recommend to everyone who
records Non Linear to either write to a 2nd drive or mirror to a dvd
while shooting (not at lunch or the end of the day).
Best,
Billy Sarokin
Billy Sarokin
almost always follow them but they often lead to increased research and
understanding on my part.
I was out today tech scouting for a film that begins shooting in NY
next week. I haven't shot in the city since last summer and I know the
rf world has been changing rapidly. So I took a scanner along and
programmed it with all the freqs I commonly use (which are on block 26,
tv channels 48-50) so I could see which radios and channels would work
at which location. The results were extremely discouraging. Almost
all the freqs were taking powerful and frequent hits, even on tv ch 49
which is supposedly unused here in NYC. I think many illegal
broadcasters and commercial users have migrated to one of the last
empty tv station slots. In my crystal ball I see many big city mixers
with ulcers in the near future. Any possibility of 'trunking' radios?
.... please.... :-)
All the best,
Billy Sarokin
Billy Sarokin
Regarding your first point, I'm not sure (but I could be wrong) that
there are any advertised features that are not in the Deva. There were
early press releases (and tons of RAMPS posts by Deva users including
myself) and product announcements that mentioned features I'd still
love to see, but I don't think Zaxcom has been advertising features
that do not yet exist. Every Deva owner would love to see the features
you mentioned implemented, but I don't think any of them would rather
still be using DAT recorders while waiting. We (and 'we' are a pretty
sizable bunch by this point) all had the same choice of Cantar (which I
guess is 'finished'), Portadrive, PD-6 and Sound Devices 744 and chose
the 'unfinished' Deva.
As for the 2nd point, I think this thread has had a very positive
effect on all involved. I think it caught Sanken and Zaxcom's
attention (and I'm sure the attention of many other non-posting
manufacturers).
Billy Sarokin
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
Don't be too discouraged. My guess is that your handheld scanner, as nice as it
may be, was taking hits on mixing products from multiple transmitters. In an
active environment like Manhattan, with a high RF noise floor, the only thing
that will tell you for sure is a good RF spectrum analyzer, and even then, you
could see some mixing in the receiver. If you have access to a 2-way service
monitor or other good spectral display, take it downtown and look.
Best,
John
S Harber
The second listed feature on the Deva/Zaxcom site is ;
"·Only the Deva records to multiple disks at the same time, this
allows you to record all disk copies required by post at the same time
as the original recordings, saving hours of your time.*"
The asterix is then refered to at the bottom of the page as
"*Please check with factory for current available feature set."
There are 9 of these asterixes on the 13 listed features described on
the site. I don't know which ones are up and working or not.
Glenn Sanders called me today after seeing my previous post to let me
know that "all manufacturers do this" and that it is "up to the Deva
dealers to let customers know what features are functional and which
aren't".
This is obviously misleading advertising (a web page is an ad) as they
could easily be listing present features and coming soon features on
the site. Maybe that site hasn't changed since 2002.I don't know. But
I have to assume writing code for the Deva takes more than changing the
site. And I'm sure the dealers would be happy to not have to describe
what is and isn't useable.
I personally find it misleading in making statements about the machine
that are not fullfilled. Maybe you don't. But I honestly think this is
why many machines have been sold.
If this happened in the music world this little debate would really be
a shit storm and I think ultimately Zaxcom is going to have to tone
down it's claims and reel it in a bit for their own good. It seems like
their reputation is heading south and I actually do think they have
great products and ideas. I just hate to see things sold this way.
I own a Toyota Prius and it doesn't get 60 mpg like they advertise. Can
I deal w/ that-yes. Does it piss me off-yes. Do I tell other
people-definitely and I feel it's my duty to counter some of the
exagerated claims made. Same goes for the Deva, Cooper, Cantar, 744,
DM2000, digital wireless, home contractor or any other high cost item I
participate in.
It's not OK to make false claims.
What would be great at this point (in my world) is to see what features
do work on the Deva or other Zaxcom items today because how am I to
know what is reality and what is fantasy.
Scott Harber
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
>Hi R,
>You are correct, the Deva does not output to the FW port during record,
>it mirrors immediately afterwards.
I tell you why this surprises me. I remember a huge flame here, about
the fact that a US West coast Mixer & Vendor made a lot of noise about
the fact that a x thousand dollar machine could not even run 2 hd's at
the same time. He even changed ( with a lot of noise ) from one brand
to the other...
Jeff Wexler only wanted a Deva because he could ( and should ) deliver
3 media at Wrap. Endless threads here why this was so bloody
important.
My point in all of this is, that when users like yourself are the
presale hype & aftersales Billboards, and can publish whatever they
like, true or false, wish full thinking, or just naive, no one can
call upon you and say, hey, this is not true.
When a mfg's website is publishing ''userstorys'' it falls under the
advertising part & responsibility of that company. You can dump here
whatever you like, without any responsibility what so ever in a later
stage.
It's apparently not what is written here, but what is not written
here. Should not be the case when users are talking to each other, I
think.
R
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
> but I don't think Zaxcom has been advertising features
>that do not yet exist.
Correction here, the head turning algorithm, a function that was
implemented in the Digital wireless.
We even had a vendor here claiming that it was his favorite function.
A complete fake claim that resulted in a lot of flames.
Not sure about the clothing
And indeed this one : Only the Deva records to multiple disks at the
same time, this allows you to record all disk copies required by post
at the same time as the original recordings, saving hours of your
time.*
It only does not do this, it;s the only recorder who does not do it.
Even the PD6 can run both HD and RAM at the same time.
I wonder if Dealers are telling this to potential customers, what do
you think ?
R
Billy Sarokin
'coming soon'. I disagree that many or anyone bought the machine
thinking the features are already there. And the one difference about
the Prius. It will never get 60 mpg. The Deva will belatedly have the
features menioned. As for what features are currently available it
changes every couple of weeks. Variable partition size was introduced
about a month ago. Call Zaxcom or your dealer.
Billy
Billy Sarokin
features. It opens him up for having the machine returned (though most
professional dealers do have a return policy). I think you and Scott
are right about listing presently unavailable features on the web site
without a clear declaration that they are not available. I don't see
any Deva owners complaining though, and you and Scott, as non-owners,
seem fully aware about what is and is not available. I doubt any
professional purchasing a $13,000 machine would be caught surprised.
Billy
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
>I agree. The web site should show the unimplemented features as
>'coming soon'. I disagree that many or anyone bought the machine
>thinking the features are already there.
To make this statement, you need to know all users .
Do you now how many people returned the unit after buying it, or after
demoing it, and bought something else ?
R
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
> I don't see
>any Deva owners complaining though, and you and Scott, as non-owners,
>seem fully aware about what is and is not available.
No, i am not. No clue what your Deva can and can;t do.
I was surprised, as i wrote about the missing option of not recording
on 2 Hd's at the same time, in relation to the huge amount of BS i've
read in the past about this.
And i wonder who is fooling who here.
Serious, I'm surprised that no one is sueing the shit out of that
company.
Good luck with the PR :-)
R
Jeff Wexler
?R? ??b?rt?? <~-?-y?e-?*@l?e?s.com> wrote:
>
> I tell you why this surprises me. I remember a huge flame here, about
> the fact that a US West coast Mixer & Vendor made a lot of noise about
> the fact that a x thousand dollar machine could not even run 2 hd's at
> the same time. He even changed ( with a lot of noise ) from one brand
> to the other...
> Jeff Wexler only wanted a Deva because he could ( and should ) deliver
> 3 media at Wrap. Endless threads here why this was so bloody
> important.
I think you are not remembering all of my comments and are using a few
mis-quoted statements out of context to bolster your current rant. I
believe that the statements you are referring to related to the original
Fostex PD-6 that could record ONLY to one piece of storage media, the
mini-DVD-RAM disk, and that I found this unacceptable. The statement
about being able to deliver 3 media at wrap is technically true (even
with certain features not yet implemented in the Deva) but I do not
believe I said I needed to deliver 3 separate media at wrap... it has
been more than sufficient to deliver the DVD-RAM disk at wrap. Possibly
you are confusing my statements with regard to the desirability of
having my tracks available and resident in 3 places at wrap time. I
still do feel that this is a good thing (and I never said this was an
exclusive feature of the Deva, I did say it was a feature or function
that was totally lacking in a few other recorders in use at that time.
>
Regards, Jeff Wexler
Ty Ford
(in article <1139553791.2...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
> I own a Toyota Prius and it doesn't get 60 mpg like they advertise. Can I
> deal w/ that-yes. Does it piss me off-yes.
So, what kind of mileage DO you get?
Ty Ford
-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Jeff Wexler
"S Harber" <dang...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hi Billy,
>
> The second listed feature on the Deva/Zaxcom site is ;
> "慈nly the Deva records to multiple disks at the same time, this
> allows you to record all disk copies required by post at the same time
> as the original recordings, saving hours of your time.*"
>
> The asterix is then refered to at the bottom of the page as
> "*Please check with factory for current available feature set."
I agree with you Scott that it is somewhat mis-leading to use the
asterix on the web page but I also agree with Glenn Sanders when he says
most manufacturers do this. On almost every product I have ever seen
advertised, hardware or software, there has almost always been some
disclaimer, however well hidden at the bottom of the page, sometihing
like "the manufacturer reserves the right to make changes... etc., some
features described here are not yet available... please consult your
dealer before making any purchases... etc."
In the real world and amongst Deva owners, the true functioning and
capabilities of the machine are very well known and well understood by
most. ALL dealers have a very liberal return policy and I do not believe
there is a single person who purchased a Deva, discovered that they had
been "lied" to and then promptly returned the machine for a full refund.
I think it is safe to say that all of the Deva users have had some
disappointment that certain features had not yet been implemented, but
as Billy has said, the un-finished Deva was superior (in his opinion,
and others) to some other finished products, so the choice was clear.
> This is obviously misleading advertising (a web page is an ad) as they
> could easily be listing present features and coming soon features on
> the site. Maybe that site hasn't changed since 2002.I don't know. But
> I have to assume writing code for the Deva takes more than changing the
> site.
I have been critical of the state of the Zaxcom website from the very
beginning but I think you actually have stumbled on something that is
quite true: the good people at Zaxcom do in fact spend a great deal more
time writing code for the Deva than they do writing html to keep their
website current. Zaxcom has never been very good at promoting itself or
its products and they have no real sales or promotional staff dedicated
to just those tasks. Zaxcom does, however, have a track record of direct
customer support that is unprecedented in this industry.
>
> I personally find it misleading in making statements about the machine
> that are not fullfilled. Maybe you don't. But I honestly think this is
> why many machines have been sold.
Someone who would buy a professional piece of gear without understanding
how it operates should not be buying any piece of gear from any dealer.
I have personally assisted probably 20 sound mixers using their new
Devas for the first time and although many had some initial difficulties
understanding aspects of non-linear recording (something new to them but
not to me) no one that I know of said: "you mean I can't do THAT! I am
going to return this piece of s**t, I have been mis-lead, I'm going to
buy a Cantar"
> If this happened in the music world this little debate would really be
> a shit storm and I think ultimately Zaxcom is going to have to tone
> down it's claims and reel it in a bit for their own good.
I think they are "reeling it in a bit" and Deva sales have never been
better. I really think the claim that the mis-leading advertising and
promised features not implemented has not slowed the purchases of Devas
to sound mixers who seem to be quite happy that they are using the best
machine.
>
> What would be great at this point (in my world) is to see what features
> do work on the Deva or other Zaxcom items today because how am I to
> know what is reality and what is fantasy.
The best way to escape this mythical "fantasy" world everyone is talking
about is to have a conversation with a few people who are using the Deva
or other Zaxcom products. I probably get 3 or 4 calls a month from
people who are trying to make a decision on the use of one machine or
another, and I am more than happy to spend often as much as several
hours discussing the good, the bad and the ugly --- of non-linear
recording in general (I do feel I am somewhat of a minor expert on the
field) and use of the Deva in particular. Notwithstanding Roberto's
contention that we are all mindless Dehova sales people, there is no
benefit to me to lie about my use of the Deva or its capabilities, so I
tell the truth as completely and clearly as possible with my only goal
to educate my fellow professional sound people and further our
profession.
Regards, Jeff Wexler
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
> but
>as Billy has said, the un-finished Deva was superior (in his opinion,
>and others) to some other finished products, so the choice was clear.
If you tell your potential customers that other brands cannot hold the
data, and are not able to deliver on external discs, i can imagine
that Deva users think that they have the best choice yes.
Of course, non issues, who cares, why bother, people know better, etc
etc etc.
R ( nOOBs )
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 01:43:11 -0500, S Harber wrote
> (in article <1139553791.2...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
>
>
>>I own a Toyota Prius and it doesn't get 60 mpg like they advertise. Can I
>>deal w/ that-yes. Does it piss me off-yes.
>
>
> So, what kind of mileage DO you get?
My guess? 35-40. You can do better in a Civic, a Yugo or a diesel Rabbit.
John
S Harber
advertised.
Scott Harber
John Coffey
demoing it, and bought something else ? R>
Sorry I took so long getting on here, but my staff had me tied up and gagged
for this whole thread. I finally got loose, so I have to talk before they
find me again...
This "West Coast" dealer can tell you that the answer to your question here
is ZERO. However, we have sold a few Devas to mixers, after they returned
the recorder brand you happen to use. Thanks for asking.
I stayed off this thread while Jan made his respective points. Now, as
usual, the chum has spread and the same old pack smelling blood always
appear when anything negative is said about Zaxcom. Almost always, they are
owners of products other than Devas who have an axe to grind for one reason
or another. If they were honest, some might admit they just don't want to
see Glenn succeed for personal reasons while others just don't want to be
the lonely owners of competing products they bought.
What really is truth and fiction here? Are facts sometimes clouded by
personal animosity? Mostly it's the same pathetic person stirring the pot
at every opportunity. I'm a sales guy, but most people are smarter enough
to consider the possibility that what I say is slanted. (damn). However,
the same scrutiny should then be spotlighted on this dudes bias, as owner of
a Cantar, who hates Deva IV & V. (In fact, he has a perfect record of
hating EVERYTHING about Zaxcom since old arguments here years back in the
early Deva II days, when the road was being "paved" by Zaxcom.. Usually his
words are nothing but half-baked assertions colored by "facts" that are
purposely distorted. Truth? Come on. His pre-disposed and prejudiced
babble is continually aimed at causing pain to Zaxcom. Most everyone else,
I give total credence to, but for this narrow minded hater to take the moral
high ground is simply laughable.
If he can ever once express a neutral, impartial, detached or open-minded
comment about Zaxcom, I'll show respect for him. Otherwise, his high moral
ground comments are discounted as the ravings of a disparaging anti-Zaxcom,
ever doing anything right, zealot. The biggest contradiction is that he is
a one man advertising campaign flouting Cantar at every opportunity, while
conversely ripping Deva. In the dictionary there is a picture of him under
the word BIASED. Those who live in glass houses... He has never been
called on his own credibility, but that's my opinion.
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
>What really is truth and fiction here?
The topic was a story about advertising.some things. Looking at the
site it says even more dubious things about any other brand, things
everyone can see & discover.
Now, great that you think i\m against zaxcom, since that is the only
paranoid non-argument you can come up with. That , however, does not
change the misleading advertising & fact.
Have a nice day , nOOb.
R
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
<~-¦-y¤e-¦*@l¤e€s.com> schreef:
>On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:23:15 GMT, "John Coffey" <jo...@coffeysound.com>
>schreef:
>
>>What really is truth and fiction here?
And by the way, Plonk.
R ( go see a shrink and a fitness )
John Coffey
R, in the words of Jack "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"
I have an idea. Maybe you ought to call all these poor bastards who got
duped into buying Devas. Let's see, three out of five 2006 Academy Award
nominated mixers used Devas:
John Pritchett CAS - "Memoirs of a Geisha"
Peter F. Kurland - "Walk the Line"
Ronald Judkins "War of the Worlds"
...or maybe call these four out of five, 2006 CAS nominated film mixers who
used Devas and tell them it was all a hoax:
Richard Van Dyke C.A.S. - Crash
John Pritchett, C.A.S. - Memoirs of a Geisha
Peter F. Kurland, C.A.S - Walk the Line
Ronald Judkins, C.A.S. - War of the Worlds
...or the two BAFTA nominated mixers who....
R, keep spreading your distorted truth and thanks again for allowing me to
corrupt the world. Maybe I can pass your congrats to the winners in a few
weeks. Sorry, no nominated shows again for your recorder this year?
J. ( Watch your liver)
Billy Sarokin
available for quite a while. I've never tried it, but it's there. Now
that you bring it up, are there any users out there willing to face
this thread and comment?
As for Zaxcom being sued or Deva's being returned by unhappy customers,
I called Glenn today and asked him how many had been returned for any
reason. The answer was zero. He said a few machines had been returned
for warranty issues and either repaired or replaced, but none had been
returned permanently. That means there are in the vicinity of 600 Deva
owners who somehow managed to deduce what features were and were not
availble.
Lastly, I'd understand if any Deva customer felt mis-led and
misinformed and vented their anger here. But why are people who do not
own the machine so angry about its advertising and web site? Jan
(remember Jan?) had a direct stake. I understand his frustration and
as I said, in the end it will be very beneficial to all of us.
Billy
Chris Ripper
By this post are you saying these 3 guys got nominated because of
the gear they use?
I would think they would be kind of insulted if instead of being nominated
for
their talent, it was the desision to use a Schoeps instead of an MKH 50 that
got them
the nod.
In fact in my humble opinion the mic choice IS more important in getting the
"sound quality" to
the screen, compared to any of the capable recorders out there.
I just dont see what any of this has to do with the discussion at hand.
Guess its just me *shrugs*
Chris Ripper
"John Coffey" <jo...@coffeysound.com> wrote in message
news:GAbHf.6939$5E3....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Billy Sarokin
they use. I think the point he was making was that such highly
esteemed and talented mixers chose that particular gear.
Billy
Jeff Wexler
"Billy Sarokin" <big...@verizon.net> wrote:
Absolutely, what Billy says here is what John Coffey was saying. I think
it is on the lines of "how could such an esteemed and taleneted" gropu
of sound mixers be duped into buying a Deva through false advertising
and put up with settling for this machine you feel is so inferior.
Regards, Jeff Wexler
Suresh Rajamani
Just a thought: How many intelligent and talented people out there are
still using Windows.
SR
Douglas Tourtelot
D.
"Suresh Rajamani" <suresh....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139634873.9...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
<chris....@verizon.net> schreef:
>
>"John Coffey" <jo...@coffeysound.com>
Aha, i was missing the great namedropping show.
Still no answer in the isusue of the advertising in the Zaxcom
website, the 2 points.
I know people in my surrounding who would just say, hey, you are
right, let's take it off.
R ( 3 times oscarwinner* )
°R¼ ¤€b€rt°•
schreef:
>The clothing noise reduction and 'head turning' algorithms have been
>available for quite a while. I've never tried it, but it's there. Now
>that you bring it up, are there any users out there willing to face
>this thread and comment?
Would be interesting. By the time it was discussed, it wasn't.
>As for Zaxcom being sued or Deva's being returned by unhappy customers,
>I called Glenn today and asked him how many had been returned for any
>reason. The answer was zero. He said a few machines had been returned
>for warranty issues and either repaired or replaced, but none had been
>returned permanently. That means there are in the vicinity of 600 Deva
>owners who somehow managed to deduce what features were and were not
>availble.
Well, i still think you are completely missing the point here. From
the website
桧nly the Deva records to multiple disks at the same time, this allows
you to record all disk copies required by post at the same time as the
original recordings, saving hours of your time.*
桧nly the Deva system allows you to keep your recorded audio on the
set, allowing production to instantly reference previous recordings.
Disputes with post regarding recording issues can be immediately
cleared up and extra copies of recorded audio can be produced in the
case of lost, damaged or stolen material.
Now, both are 100 % wrong, false, fake, crap, misleading, scam,
whatever one can call it.
I understand that you would rather talk about the missing features,
but thats not what i mentioned now for 5 times. Ofcourse
Discountcrasher-of-the-week-Coffeysales grabs the opportunity to do
his bark-bark-Poopoo-in-public, but it is still there..
R ( off to the normal world )