feeding audio to a Canon XL1
Kurt Albershardt
part of the time, feeding a Canon XL1.
Can anyone tell me a bit about the beast and what options I might have
available? I suppose it's too much to hope for a digital input...
®obe®to
wrote:
i believe it has 2 XLR in, and if you use a small mixer with a proper
limiter, everything goes fine for rough TV stuff.
R
Noah Timan
Yes it is. Best way in is @ -10dBv line level. I suggest a Google search on
this topic; there are seemingly hundreds of threads here about it.
Regards,
Noah Timan
Fabian Oliver
With the 2 XLR input accesory in the XL1, i send audio through the mixer,
mic level, and set the XL1 in the menu to mic att.
If i don't the mic out of my mixer is too hot for the camera.
Fabian.
in article 10346652...@nnrp1.phx1.gblx.net, Kurt Albershardt at
ku...@nv.net wrote on 15/10/02 04:00:
Adam D. Sperry
adapter, or barring that a Beachtek- or Studio One-type adapter. With
any of those options you can take a mic level siganl into the camera.
I use a Mix Pre for these jobs. I take the output of the Mixpre
through the Sound Devices specified -55db pad and then into mic level
input of the XL-1. Tone for ~-22 and you should get plenty of gain
and headroom without distortion.
davef
> >Can anyone tell me a bit about the beast and what options I might have
> >available? I suppose it's too much to hope for a digital input...
>
> i believe it has 2 XLR in, and if you use a small mixer with a proper
> limiter, everything goes fine for rough TV stuff.
>
> R
Here at Coffey Sound I get a lot of people needing to do the same
thing you are doing. There are two ways to get audio in on the XL1.
There is the stereo mini mic jack, where the camera mic plugs in, and
there are RCA inputs on the back. I don't know of any XLR inputs on
the camera itself. Canon makes a MA-100, which is an adapter that
plugs onto the camera. This is mic level only and has no attenuation.
Most people get what's called a beachtek adapter for the camera. It
screws into the bottom of the camera (where you would put your
tripod). It has two XLR inputs. There are a couple of ways you can
get the output (Stereo mini and RCA for the most part). It also has
two rotary pots that control the input level to the camera, which is a
very nice feature.
If you have any other questions, shoot me an e-mail at
da...@coffeysound.com.
Dave Fisk
Jay Rose
There's a long article in there about camera sound, and the XL1 was one of
the cameras we tested with analyzers.
Bottom line: You'll get the best S/N and THD+N if you use the unbalanced
RCA ins on the back ("audio 1"), with the cam's volume controls set to
50%, and feeding a signal of -30 dBV. This is 7 dB quieter than sending a
line level signal to the Beachtek XLR adapter. (The camera itself has
minijack stereo mic in, optimized for -35 dBu mics. The Canon MA100
adapter doesn't take line level.)
Check my website's tutorial section if you need details on building a +4
dBu balanced to -30 dBV unbalanced pad.
While somebody has to monitor headphones at the camera, it's not E-E. As
near as we could tell, the headphone amp is connected before the ADC. If
you want to monitor what's actually printing to tape, use the FireWire
output into a laptop.
--
Correct address is jay AT dplay DOT com
Clio- and Emmy-winning sound design
Learn audio for video at www.dplay.com
Kurt Albershardt
> Get a copy of the current issue (November cover date) of DV Magazine.
> There's a long article in there about camera sound, and the XL1 was one of
> the cameras we tested with analyzers.
>
> Bottom line: You'll get the best S/N and THD+N if you use the unbalanced
> RCA ins on the back ("audio 1"), with the cam's volume controls set to
> 50%, and feeding a signal of -30 dBV. This is 7 dB quieter than sending a
> line level signal to the Beachtek XLR adapter. (The camera itself has
> minijack stereo mic in, optimized for -35 dBu mics. The Canon MA100
> adapter doesn't take line level.)
Great info (all) and thanks!
> Check my website's tutorial section if you need details on building a +4
> dBu balanced to -30 dBV unbalanced pad.
I can handle that part, or just puck the right preamp/mixer I think.
> While somebody has to monitor headphones at the camera, it's not E-E. As
> near as we could tell, the headphone amp is connected before the ADC. If
> you want to monitor what's actually printing to tape, use the FireWire
> output into a laptop.
So no way to get a digital signal in?
Noah Timan
plugs onto the camera. This is mic level only and has no attenuation. >>
Not so...I've sent line level through the MA-100 plenty of times. The adapter
doesn't control gain, it only converts the connectors from balanced XLR to
unbalanced RCA. Choice of line level, mic level, and accompanying attenuation
(if desired) are made in the Audio menu of the camera.
NVT
bubba
selected in my camera I can NOT get any input from those inputs. Did you
know that?
"Jay Rose" <SEE-S...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:SEE-SIGFILE-15...@192.168.1.101...
bubba
through them.
"Noah Timan" <noah...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021015170932...@mb-de.aol.com...
bubba
into the front inputs. Not the rear. I haven't found a way to get the rear
setup as 16 bit inputs. Only the mic inputs So I use an adaptor.
. "Kurt Albershardt" <ku...@nv.net> wrote in message
news:10346652...@nnrp1.phx1.gblx.net...
Kurt Albershardt
>>
>> Bottom line: You'll get the best S/N and THD+N if you use the
>> unbalanced RCA ins on the back ("audio 1"), with the cam's volume
>> controls set to 50%, and feeding a signal of -30 dBV. This is 7 dB
>> quieter than sending a line level signal to the Beachtek XLR adapter.
>> (The camera itself has minijack stereo mic in, optimized for -35 dBu
>> mics. The Canon MA100 adapter doesn't take line level.)
>
> selected in my camera I can NOT get any input from those inputs. Did you
> know that?
Why have two separate A/D stages? Or is it a software setting for a
single A/D converter?
I think I'll just sit back and see what else I can learn here--there
seems to be some debate about what goes where and at what gain ;>
Kurt Albershardt
>
> Get a copy of the current issue (November cover date) of DV Magazine.
I signed up for a sub, but they're quoting '12-week delays' before the
first issue appears. Is this thing sold on newsstands as well as sent
through BPA-audited subs?
bubba
are functional are the ones that the mic is usually connected to. To me
that means that any other inputs are 12 bit. If I remember correctly Canon
verified that on the phone.. I'll grab a camera and take another look...
I don't think its a function of extra stages just data width and storage. I
would assume there's on 16 bit ADC.
"Kurt Albershardt" <ku...@nv.net> wrote in message
news:10347253...@nnrp1.phx1.gblx.net...
bubba
w16 bit and set the input switch to AUDIO 1 you should get 16 bit
conversions of incoming audio. Seems ok here...
"bubba" <bu...@thezoo.com> wrote in message
news:TS1r9.965$GL6.84...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
bubba
levels.. LINE and MIC and att MIC.
so yours may be set to LINE?
"bubba" <bu...@thezoo.com> wrote in message
news:5D0r9.890$wf6.82...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Dirk J. Bakker
I think something here doesn't make sense. It is true that in both the
XL1 and the XL1s, which is what I have, one can record in 12-bit into 2
or 4 channels and 16-bit into only two channels. The MA100 and MA200
(which I have), XLR adapters only connect to the rear RCA inputs yet
provide the better (i.e. 16-bit) audio when the mode is selected and the
cables connected where appropriate. IOW, neither adapter uses the mini
plug and serves as a good control.
No doubt, you know there are two sets of 'rear' RCA jacks. Namely, AUDIO
1 in the back (as Jay and the manuals say to use) and AUDIO 2 in the
handle. Are you saying you can not get 16-bit audio at all or just from
the mini stereo plug of the built-in mic?
Also, as the manuals direct, are you doing: Slide the INPUT SELECT
switch (located in the side door) to AUDIO 1? Not doing this might
explain why you only get 12-bit from this input. IOW, the camera is in 4
channel (12 bit only) mode as to AUDIO 1 and sending 16-bit to the mini
plug when that mode is selected.
Maybe there is something else that's happening.
Dirk
Noah Timan
Yes, I set them to LINE before I start the workday.
bubba
L David Matheny
Jim Feeley
Yes, the magazine's sold on bigger (and better) newsstands and in
bigger bookstores, including several chains.
We also stick all our content online, a bit after it appears in print.
Keep your eye on DV.com in the coming weeks. If I remember, I'll drop a
note to ramps when it's up.
Jim "works at DV magazine" Feeley
Jay Rose
> Jay.. I think the rear inputs of the XL1 are only 12Bit. If I have 16 bit
> selected in my camera I can NOT get any input from those inputs. Did you
> know that?
The mode display said "16 bits", I definitely heard signal, the specs were
slightly better than through the minijack input at 16 bits, and the tape
was definitely at 48 kHz.
In view of our previous discussions on another ng, however, I'd hesitate
to tell you how to set it up because I don't want to give wrong
information.
Jay Rose
It was a little late getting to retail outlets (because of a bundled demo
CD), but it should be a larger newsstands and computer stores now.
Kurt Albershardt
>>>
>>> Get a copy of the current issue (November cover date) of DV Magazine.
>>
>> I signed up for a sub, but they're quoting '12-week delays' before the
>> first issue appears. Is this thing sold on newsstands as well as sent
>> through BPA-audited subs?
>
> Yes, the magazine's sold on bigger (and better) newsstands and in
> bigger bookstores, including several chains.
>
> We also stick all our content online, a bit after it appears in print.
> Keep your eye on DV.com in the coming weeks. If I remember, I'll drop a
> note to ramps when it's up.
Cool--thanks. I'll get the print edition but I'd like to send a copy to
the camera guy and online will be easier.
Kurt Albershardt
>>
>> The camera itself has
>> minijack stereo mic in, optimized for -35 dBu mics. The Canon MA100
>> adapter doesn't take line level.
>
> doesn't control gain, it only converts the connectors from balanced XLR to
> unbalanced RCA.
So if I'm rading this (and the BeachTek site) correctly, the BeachTek
DXA-4P converts XLR balanced to TRS mini unbalanced mic and the MA-100
converts XLR balanced to RCA unbalanced line? Is the MA-100 an active
device or just some transformers and resistors?
Thanks again...
berna...@yahoo.com
>> << so yours may be set to LINE?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I set them to LINE before I
>start the workday.
- I send line level from my PD-4 to the xlr adapter and last time it gave some problems.
Camera was set to line level and going at -20db愀.
i扉e shooted other times with the same camera this way and went o.k.
I think i惴 gonna open one of those adapters and take a peek inside!:)
Why would it only acept mic level when it has a line level switch?
if it acepts line level , why wouldn愒 the adapter unbalanced it to rca line level?
are canon guys beeing any smart?
By the way,i惴 back from some days in Africa.
Anyone shooting there?
i惴 available and willing!:)
Bernardo Six Costa
Boom op./mixer
Portugal
Sent via the SoundSpeed Movie Database
http://www.soundspeedmovie.com
"The site for production sound"
-----= Posted via Newsfeed.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Jay Rose
> So if I'm rading this (and the BeachTek site) correctly, the BeachTek
> DXA-4P converts XLR balanced to TRS mini unbalanced mic and the MA-100
> converts XLR balanced to RCA unbalanced line? Is the MA-100 an active
> device or just some transformers and resistors?
The MA100 is opamps, near as I can tell. It's got slightly better freq
response than the transformer BeachTek, but also slightly higher noise.
Noah Timan
some problems.
Right -- your PD4 is putting out +4 dBu @ around 600 ohms and your XL1 is
looking for -10dBV @ around 15k ohms. Hence, your problem.
<< Why would it only acept mic level when it has a line level switch? >>
See above.
<< if it acepts line level , why wouldn´t the adapter unbalanced it to rca line
level? >>
It's not (only) a question of balanced vs. unbalanced, it's a question of a
difference in level and impedance between "professional" line level and
"consumer" line level.
<< are canon guys beeing any smart? >>
This same difference will exist when interfacing with other consumer products
besides the XL1.
Regards,
Noah Timan
Dave Morrison
>
> > So if I'm rading this (and the BeachTek site) correctly, the BeachTek
> > DXA-4P converts XLR balanced to TRS mini unbalanced mic and the MA-100
> > converts XLR balanced to RCA unbalanced line? Is the MA-100 an active
> > device or just some transformers and resistors?
>
> The MA100 is opamps, near as I can tell. It's got slightly better freq
> response than the transformer BeachTek, but also slightly higher noise.
Jay,
what is the function of the little 1/8" minijack that hooks up next to the
RCA's?
dave
Charles Tomaras
work without it.
"Dave Morrison" <dav...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:WDqr9.25405$nb....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
bubba
"Charles Tomaras" <tom...@nospam.tomaras.com> wrote in message
news:uqsf5lf...@corp.supernews.com...
bubba
rather ignorantly I suppose... I must have missed that dang audio1 switch. I
just got into the habit of using the front ins...
...
But I am curious as to why you would get different results ... from the
other inputs..
"Jay Rose" <SEE-S...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:SEE-SIGFILE-15...@192.168.1.101...
>
Jay Rose
> ...I have just been using the mic inputs for four years..
> rather ignorantly I suppose... I must have missed that dang audio1 switch. I
> just got into the habit of using the front ins...
> ...
>
> But I am curious as to why you would get different results ... from the
> other inputs..
I'm not sure why the results were different, but Dan and I checked them
twice -- using both the Amber and the ATB -- when we noticed that. I
suspect Canon put an extra stage of mic pre in the mini, or possibly used
two different preamps.
We set the volume controls to 50% and fed a signal into the RCA until the
meter read -12 dBFS. That turned out to be -30 dBV. We used -35 dBu into
the MA100 and Beachbox (with MIC ATT), and got -12 dBFS at just about 50%
volume control. But through the RCAs, we saw about 7 dB better s/n. THD+N
was the same for RCA and BeachBox, but the active MA100 raised the THD a
tiny bit.
So on the basis of that, we recommended an external pre with a pad into
the RCAs...
nappoy
suppose.news:SEE-SIGFILE-17...@192.168.1.101...
Richard Kuschel
signal into the MA100, it must be mic level and the inputof the XL! needs to be
set at Microphone -20dB. this doesn't seem to make any sense, but it worked
well
I will have backup of everything sent to the camera on DAT as a second system,
so I'm not terribly worried about the camera sound anyway.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
Noah Timan
signal into the MA100, it must be mic level and the inputof the XL! needs to be
set at Microphone -20dB. this doesn't seem to make any sense, but it worked
well >>
I've heard this notion several times now in this thread, and it is a bit
confusing to me. I spent most this past summer doing a doc and feeding line
level to the MA100 every day without incident. I'm not sure why people are
having trouble with something other than mic level.
NVT
Mike Hall
I'm not sure why people are
having trouble with something other than mic level.
Noah,
I did a dramatic short (4 days) feeding line level to the MA100 and was told by
post that when the actors shouted or screamed there was distortion on the camera
audio. Luckily, I was recording an HHB backup. A closer read of the manual
reveals that the MA 100 converts the rca inputs to Mic. Level. My cooper will be
padded down -40 db next time.
Mike Hall
Noah Timan
by
post that when the actors shouted or screamed there was distortion on the
camera
audio. >>
Were you sending +4 dBu line level or -10 dBV line level?
<< A closer read of the manual
reveals that the MA 100 converts the rca inputs to Mic. Level. >>
This doesn't make sense to me either. There's no RCA inputs on the MA 100,
only XLR inputs. It has RCA outputs to the camera, but if it converted
(padded) line level down to mic level at this stage, we'd certainly hear that
change. (More specifically, we wouldn't hear anything, as one normally doesn't
when a mic level output is plugged into a line level input).
FWIW I've had no complaints from post from dozens of hours of shooting in this
fashion, nor heard anything funny in "dailies" playback...
Regards,
Noah Timan
Richard Kuschel
I think that the poster meant and what happens is that the MA 100 is a
convertor that allows microphone level signals to be used into the RCA inputs
of the XL1.
What the MA100 does, is to convert a mic level signal into a -10dBV line level
signal so that the XL1 can use it.
It is a really stupid design and certainly less than intuitive, especially
since the internal menue must be set to mic attenuation-20 to get a proper
level.
Noah Timan
level
signal so that the XL1 can use it. >>
This appears to be the opposite of what Mike was suggesting. Unless I'm just
not getting it, Mike seemed to be saying the MA100 attenuated line level to mic
level. This suggests mic level is being amplified to line level.
My experience with this device is that it seemed to be a passive piece of
equipment that simply adapts XLR connectors to RCA connectors, and gives the
shooter a shoulder rest. Input levels on the camera were set the same and
responded the same whether I went through the MA100 or plugged the -10 dBV
signal directly into the camera. Perhaps the particular MA100 I used was
modified, but I doubt it.
I'll play with it again the next time I see an XL1, and report back if anyone
cares.
Regards,
Noah Timan
Kurt Albershardt
>
> This appears to be the opposite of what Mike was suggesting. Unless I'm just
> not getting it, Mike seemed to be saying the MA100 attenuated line level to mic
> level. This suggests mic level is being amplified to line level.
Hence my confusion, having not yet seen the camera and MA-100 in person.
> My experience with this device is that it seemed to be a passive piece
> of equipment that simply adapts XLR connectors to RCA connectors, and
> gives the shooter a shoulder rest.
Does it take power off the camera? If not, it surely must be passive
(unless there is some kind of DC bias on the RCA's.)
I'm going to go take a look at the camera later this month and run some
tests of my own.
Dirk J. Bakker
> Noah Timan wrote:
>
>>
>> This appears to be the opposite of what Mike was suggesting. Unless
>> I'm just
>> not getting it, Mike seemed to be saying the MA100 attenuated line
>> level to mic
>> level. This suggests mic level is being amplified to line level.
>
> Hence my confusion, having not yet seen the camera and MA-100 in person.
>
> > My experience with this device is that it seemed to be a passive piece
> > of equipment that simply adapts XLR connectors to RCA connectors, and
> > gives the shooter a shoulder rest.
>
> Does it take power off the camera?
Yes. You can see the mini plug at:
http://www.canondv.com/archive/xl1/a_audio_access.html
I have a MA-200 for the XL1s and it too receives power from the camera.
> If not, it surely must be passive (unless there is some kind of DC
> bias on the RCA's.)
It's not passive. I quote from the Specifications packaged with the
MA-200 (what I have):
Power supply: 5 V DC
Audio input jack: XLR 3-31; 1: Shielded, 2: Hot, 3: Cold
Input level: -55 dBv (balanced)
Input impedance: 600 ohm
Output terminal: AUDIO1: RCA phono plug with cable (unbalanced): AUDIO2:
RCA phono jack (unbalanced)
Gain: 6dB (balance to unbalanced conversion)
Output impedance: 600 ohm
etc.
HTH,
Dirk
Kurt Albershardt
>
> I think that the poster meant and what happens is that the MA 100 is
> a convertor that allows microphone level signals to be used into the
> RCA inputs of the XL1.
>
> line level signal so that the XL1 can use it.
>
Dirk J. Bakker wrote:
>
> It's not passive. I quote from the Specifications packaged with the
> MA-200 (what I have):
>
> Power supply: 5 V DC
> Audio input jack: XLR 3-31; 1: Shielded, 2: Hot, 3: Cold
> Input level: -55 dBv (balanced)
> Input impedance: 600 ohm
> Output terminal: AUDIO1: RCA phono plug with cable (unbalanced): AUDIO2:
> RCA phono jack (unbalanced)
> Gain: 6dB (balance to unbalanced conversion)
> Output impedance: 600 ohm
> etc.
Looks to me like the MA-200 (and likely the MA-100) are low-gain mid-fi
mic preamps feeding unbalanced line inputs at ~-30 dBV to the line ins
on the back of the DVcam.
Since most of us have mic preamps ranging from slightly better to way
way better, it makes sense to feed the XL1 directly via its RCA inputs
as Jay suggested.
Perhaps a good time to check out my transformer collection in case I get
ground loop problems?
Noah Timan
mic preamps feeding unbalanced line inputs at ~-30 dBV to the line ins
on the back of the DVcam.
>>
The camera doesn't have specific "line in"s. There's RCA inputs, but there's a
menu switch that lets you toggle between mic level, mic level with 20 dB
attenuation, or line level. Basically, it seems to be a mic level input with
an adjustable pad, as opposed to a real line level input. It's been reported
here many times in the past that there's no way to get around the preamps in
the XL1. If the inputs were truly line level inputs, this would not be so.
Regards,
Noah Timan
Wolf
MINI DV CAMERAS
As in any video shoot there are several ways to get good sound :
· Record sound directly on the video tape and expect to use that for the
final program.
· Record sound on 2 media: also called double system. Decide which is
the primary media before the shoot. Don't change your mind!
· Match TC on DV and TC DAT visually
· Record TC from Generator box as audio on one track on DV
The Cannon XL-1and now XL-1S is one of the popular consumer mini DV
cameras that augment the traditional Betas in lower budget shoots. The
main drawback is the inability to pull focus manually with these fully
auto or servo driven lenses. Of course sound is always a problem as most
of these cameras are really just set up for ambient sound from the built
on general purpose stereo mike. Of course most "videographers" notice
after their first edit session that the onboard mike sucks for anything
but traffic noise, so they hire a professional mixer to "take care of
sound". The first thing to explain are the limits of the system. Then
one can go about recording very decent tracks with proper preparation
and some knowledge and a lot of extra care.
RF noise: If you mount just about any RF receiver on the back of it, RFI
can reduce the range of the wireless system. With the receiver up on top
of the camera, velcroed to the viewfinder or handle, it seems to be OK.
Interestingly, the Sony cameras we looked at briefly seemed to be real
RF quiet. Listen to the RF white noise before turning on the Tx as always.
Here is some very useful info on the sound setup of XL-1:
http://www.soundspeedmovie.com/resources/articles/canon/xl1audio.html
same as :
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/xl1_audio.htm
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/audiofor.htm
Its a must read for this camera.
Here's Canon's XL1S site with manuals for all their cameras WOW!:
http://www.canondv.com/xl1s
Here's DV magazine's review of the new XL1S:
http://www.dv.com/magazine/2001/1201/johnson_xl1s_1201.html
There are 2 RCAs in the rear (audio 1) that can be inputs or outputs,
the camera decides which it is and when. The XL-1 has an accessory plug
in shoulder pad which is a mike level audio input with XLRs! Danger!
This is a noisy input. The amplifier is said to have 7 dB gain, but this
is not true. The RCAs that this plastic molded box plug into are
software switchable between Line and Mic and Mic at -20. If you have a
mike level driving the camera set the rear camera inputs for mike (even
though they are RCA plugs) with the XLR adapter plugged into them. If
you have a line level going to camera use the RCA inputs directly
(absolute maximum is probably about -10db consumer type level) or better
the BeachTek Box. Last box I had had a pad that was much too large.
I.e.: the signal was padded too much and the pots were useless.
Jay Rose says: Canon's spec is either 16b/48k/2-track or
12b/32k/4-track. If you do the math, they both equal 1,536,000 bits per
second. The 4-channel mode is PCM non-linear, which gets a little better
performance out of mid-level sounds but doesn t change the noise floor.
12 bit is not good enough even for voice recording. Dramatic voices can
get pretty loud unexpectedly, which is one reason why the standard
nominal level is -20 dBFs. Theoretical noise floor of 12 bits is -72
dBFs, practical on a prosumer camera is probably around -62. So your
noise is -42 dB from the average voice, and too damned close to unvoiced
fricatives. Now add a little compression for broadcast. And there is
very little left. Forget a theatrical distribution with 12 bit sound.
www.dplay.com
Cannons audio accessories site (uniquely uninformative):
http://www.canondv.com/xl1s/a_audio_access.html
MA100 MA200 The mini mate from Videosmith looks like a cute radio mike
holder. These are the XLR inputs. 2 for the MA100 and 4 on the MA200.
MA100: Power supply: 5 V DC , Audio input jack: XLR 3; 1: Shielded, 2:
Hot, 3: Cold, Input level: -55 dBv (balanced), Input impedance: 600 ohm,
Output terminal: AUDIO1: RCA phono plug with cable (unbalanced): AUDIO2:
RCA phono jack (unbalanced), Gain: 6dB (balance to unbalanced
conversion) Output impedance: 600 ohm.
Cannon GL-1: The menu settings are hard to find and comprehend first
time around - be prepared, don't expect to understand this on the set
first time you see the camera. You absolutely need the manual. The
headphone amp is a gutless (its output is so low it is useless) and has
some hiss, you need something better to follow (Whirlwind
mike-line-headphone amp is a necessity really) to give you the ability
to judge what you and the camera do with your ears.
Its possible to do a good job with these cameras recording onto the
cameras 2 16 bit tracks. Be really prepared and LISTEN to the results on
a separate DV deck with a good amp and speaker attached. Don't trust the
meters on the camera. Good frigging luck.
Here all of Canons DV manuals: http://www.canondv.com/pdf/index.html
A general fairly complete shopping site is: http://www.videosmith.com/
DXA-4 DXA-6
BeachTek has a sales web site: www.beachtek.com . Tel: (416) 690-9457 -
Fax: (416) 690-0866. Have a 3XLR input a balancing transformer and a
mike pad and an additional adjustable pad on the 10 position knobs.
Their tech help is pathetically uninformed. Their camera specific boxes
are usually designed with wrong levels in mind and levels are not
managed properly by the pots. Be careful and test stuff out well in
advance. New in 2002 : DXA-6 a new box that supplies 48V phantom power
from a 9V battery, has switchable grounds.
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa6.html
Studio One Productions make boxes that compete with BeachTek. I have
never seen one but the pix shows exposed switches (ugggh) 3956 Town
Center Blvd PMB 159, Orlando, FL. 32837 Phone (407)812-1225 (800)
788-0068 Web Address http://www.studio1productions.com . Item # XLR-PRO
- Regular Price $249.00
New: The XLR-BP was specifically designed for those videographers who
are using dynamic microphones and battery power mics, such as shotgun
microphones. The XLR-BP will clip onto you belt and comes with a 4 ft
cable with a stereo mini-plug so it can plug into you camera's mic jack.
The XLR-BP is ideal for use with the Smoothcam or other types of Steady
Cam type of devices, as it removes the XLR cables from being attached
directly to the camera. $ 120.00
GSTN1 2 Independent Limiters with Limit indicating LEDs, Mic/ Line
Switchable, Powered from Camera, Independent gain controls for each
channel, Transformer balanced inputs on XLR connectors, Audio Output on
stereo 3.5mm Jack, Power Input on 2.5mm Jack
http://www.glensound.co.uk/GSTN1.htm GLENSOUND ELECTRONICS LTD, 5 & 6
Brooks Place, Maidstone, Kent, England, ME14 1HE, Tel: +44 (0)1622
753662 or +44 (0)1622 753020
Small-format video has revolutionized and to a degree democratized
documentary production but certainly not distribution. Alan Barker has
advised many productions on camera and sound hardware and technique.
Check his site: WWW.alanbarker.com
Problem: Shooting with 2 DV cams that take no external TC.
Some answers: Use double system with TC DAT (PD-4 or HHB) as master
recorder and 29.97 DF time code source, using time of day TC.
Also set the DV for time of day and you can do a rough synchronization
with the DAT by hitting 'set' on the DV cam when the DAT clock hits the
same time. This sets the camera's 'A' time to within a few frames of the
DAT time. It's quick and dirty, but will at least get the editor close.
Better yet: Put a sync box ( SB-2 or Ambient) on each camera, feeding
time code into each channel 2 at 30 or so dBFs ( the indication on the
meter) [this is worth a quick playback and read test, most readers these
days look for zero crosses], and feed a mixed audio signal into channel
1. Don t worry about crosstalk too much, there is nothing you can do
anyway. But DV cameras preamps are noisy, again nothing you can do
except have a good best recording on DAT. The Avid can "read audio as
time code" often.
If they the cameras are JVC 500, they are setup like a traditional
Betacam except there's no TC in or out. The default setting for the 500
is DROP FRAME! If you want to change it to non drop [ND], here's the
procedure from the manual:
Setting the VCR Setup Menu
Set the VCR Setup Menu item No. 516 DISPLAY SELECT to TC .
Select the time code generator's framing mode using the VCR Setup Menu
item No. 416 NON DROP/DROP.
DROP : The time code generator's running method is set to the drop frame
mode.
Use this setting when placing emphasis on the recording time.
The DF indicator lights up on the display in the drop-frame mode.
NON DROP : The time code generator's running method is set to the non
drop frame mode.
Use this setting when placing emphasis on the number of frames.
In the NON DROP frame mode, the "NDF" indicator lights on the display.
here the ad:
24P for Sound and Video Assist
160+ page bound manual, many flow diagrams © Wolf Seeberg 2002
A hands-on manual written by a Hollywood sound recordist for
professional on set personnel and producers. The book explains how to
record sound onto digital video tape and make a parallel higher
confidence recording on DAT or DVD that holds sync till the final mix.
It details timecode procedures for 23.97 and includes: flow diagrams of
signal distribution; afterburners; video assist requirements; internet
sources; new shortcuts and tricks to bring down post production costs
and maintain highest quality. It gives guidelines for producers to sort
out interdepartmental responsibilities. If you work in film/video sound
with the new 24P video cameras, then this is a must-have reference book.
There is more in this book than any one person can know.
List Price $36.00
______________________________________________________________
Sync Sound with the New Media
180 page bound book, many photos, © Wolf Seeberg 2002
A hands-on manual written by a Hollywood veteran sound recordist for
sound on set and post personnel. All of the new DAT and analog timecode
techniques and tricks for syncing film and video are explained giving
everyday useful hints, including transfer to video tape, filming TV's or
computer screens, 3:2 "pull up and pull down and speeds of 60.05, 60,
59.94, 30, 29.97, 25, 24.02, 24, 32, 42.336, 44.056, 44.1, 44.144,
45.937, 46.0801, 47.952, 48, 48.048, 50. All of the new machines are
covered: HHB PDR 1000TC MS, Fostex PD-2, PD-4, D-7, D-8, Sonosax, Nagra
IV-ST, Nagra D, Nagra TC conversions, Sony 7030, DA-88, and Aatons
Origin C, Denecke and Ambient Products. Unique capabilities and bugs,
detailed technical instructions and unpublished menu settings for the
PD-4, HHB and 7030 are featured. Video and computer screen synchronizing
with film cameras at 24, 25, 29.97 and 30 fr/s, the Cinematography
Electronics (Barton) sync box and 24 frame on set monitor sync are
explained in detail. Sources on the Internet are provided. Guidelines
for producers to sort out interdepartmental responsibilities are
discussed. This is a "how to do it" manual with an easy-to-grasp
explanation of underlying theory. If you work in the film/video field
and sync is of interest, this is a must-have instruction and reference
manual. If you are a producer and want to prevent wasting big bucks in
post, this is your guide!
List Price $36.00
Available from:
Coffey Sound (323) 876-7525 or (818) 759-0240, fax (323) 876-4775
3497 Cahuenga Blvd. West, Hollywood, CA 90068 USA, CoffeySound.com
Location Sound Corporation (818)980-9891,
10639 Riverside Drive, N. Hollywood, CA 91602, locationsound.com
Trew Audio Inc. (800) 241-8994 or (615)256-3542,
240 Great Circle Road, Ste. 339, Nashville, TN 37228-1707, trewaudio.com
Fletcher Chicago (312) 932-2700 Fax: (312) 932-2799,
1000 N. North Branch Chicago, IL 60622, fletch.com
Kurt Albershardt wrote:
--
My email address was CHANGED to wol...@attbi.com
this message may contain some deliberate spelling errors
Wolf
MINI DV CAMERAS
As in any video shoot there are several ways to get good sound :
· Record sound directly on the video tape and expect to use that for
the final program ( better have your shit totally together).
· Record sound on 2 media: also called double system. Decide that the
external ( DAT ) is the primary media before the shoot. Don't change
your mind! ( good friggen luck)
· Match TC on DV and TC DAT visually (only good for each roll)
· Record TC from Generator box as audio on one track on DV ( usually
get you annoying leakage.
The Cannon XL-1and now XL-1S is one of the popular consumer mini DV
cameras that augment the traditional Betas in lower budget shoots. The
main drawback is the inability to pull focus manually with these fully
auto or servo driven lenses. Of course sound is always a problem as most
of these cameras are really just set up for ambient sound from the built
on general purpose mediocre stereo mike. Of course most "videographers"
notice after their first edit session that the onboard mike sucks for
anything but traffic noise, so they hire a professional mixer to "take
care of sound". The first thing to explain are the limits of the system.
Then one can go about recording very decent tracks with proper
preparation and some knowledge and a lot of extra care.
RF noise: If you mount just about any RF receiver on the back of it, RFI
(generated by the camera) can reduce the range of the wireless system.
With the receiver up on top of the camera, velcroed to the viewfinder or
handle, it seems to be OK. Interestingly, the Sony cameras we looked at
briefly seemed to be real RF quiet. Listen to the RX RF white noise for
a while before turning on the Tx as always.
Here is some very useful info on the sound setup of XL-1:
http://www.soundspeedmovie.com/resources/articles/canon/xl1audio.html
same as :
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/xl1_audio.htm
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/audiofor.htm
Its a must read for this camera.
Here's Canon's XL1S site with manuals for all their cameras WOW!:
http://www.canondv.com/xl1s
Here's DV magazine's review of the new XL1S:
http://www.dv.com/magazine/2001/1201/johnson_xl1s_1201.html
There are 2 RCAs in the rear (audio 1) that can be inputs or outputs,
the camera decides which it is and when. Slide the INPUT SELECT switch
(located in the side door) to AUDIO 1. The XL-1 shoulder pad accessory,
the MA100, has a 3 XLR mike level audio input. Danger! This is a noisy
input. The amplifier is said to have 6 dB gain, but this is not true.
The RCAs that this plastic molded box plug into are software switchable
between Line and Mic and Mic at –20 by the camera. If you have a mike
level driving the MA100 XLR inputs set the rear camera inputs (audio 1)
for mike (even though they are RCA plugs).
If you have a line level going to camera use the RCA inputs directly
(absolute maximum is probably about -10db consumer type level – so set
the “0” VU level at –20 on the meters)
Jay Rose says: Canon's spec for their audio is either 16bit/48k/2-track
or 12bit/32k/4-track. If you do the math, they both equal 1,536,000 bits
per second. The 4-channel mode is PCM non-linear, which gets a little
better performance out of mid-level sounds but doesn’t change the noise
floor. 12 bit is not good enough even for voice recording. Dramatic
voices can get pretty loud unexpectedly, which is one reason why the
standard nominal level is -20 dBFs. Theoretical noise floor of 12 bits
is -72 dBFs, practical on a prosumer camera is probably around -62. So
your noise is -42 dB from the average voice, and too damned close to
unvoiced fricatives. Now add a little compression for broadcast. And
there is very little left. Forget a theatrical distribution with 12 bit
sound. Always use the 16 bit setting.
Get a copy of the November cover date of DV Magazine http://www.dv.com/
. There's a long article in there about camera sound, and the XL1 was
one of the cameras we tested with analyzers.
Bottom line: You'll get the best S/N and THD+N if you use the unbalanced
RCA ins on the back ("audio 1"), with the cam's volume controls set to
50%, and feeding a signal of -30 dBV [for “0” VU on the external mixers
meter] that show as -12 dBFS on the cameras meters. This is 7 dB quieter
than sending a line level signal to the Beachtek XLR adapter that in
turn feeds the front minijack mike input. Check Jay Roses website's
tutorial section if you need details on building a +4dBu balanced to -30
dBV unbalanced pad.
While somebody has to monitor headphones at the camera, it's not E-E. As
near as we could tell, the headphone amp is connected before the ADC
(analog to digital converter). If you want to monitor what's actually
printing to tape, use the FireWire
output into a laptop (of course that is a painful mess). check Jays
site: www.dplay.com
Cannons audio accessories site (uninformative as most these consumer
instructions): http://www.canondv.com/xl1s/a_audio_access.html
These are the XLR input adapters. 2 ins for the MA100 and 4 on the MA200.
MA100 MA200 The mini mate
from Videosmith – looks like a cute radio mike holder.
MA100: Power supply: 5 V DC , Audio input jack: XLR 3; 1: Shielded, 2:
Hot, 3: Cold, Input level: -55 dBv (balanced) that is a mike level,
Input impedance: 600 ohm, Output RCA phono jack (male) connects to
AUDIO1 RCA phono plug (unbalanced) and AUDIO2: RCA phono jack
(unbalanced), Gain: 6dB (balance to unbalanced conversion) Output
impedance: 600 ohm. This is only a mike input connector adapter thing
that is noisy and not recommended.
Cannon GL-1 and GL-2: The menu settings are hard to find and comprehend
first time around - be prepared, don't expect to understand this on the
set first time you see the camera. You absolutely need the manual. The
headphone amp here and in the XL-1 is a gutless (its output is so low it
is useless) and has some additional hiss not on the tape, you need
something better to follow (Whirlwind mike-line-headphone amp is a
necessity really) to give you the ability to judge what you and the
camera do with your ears.
Its possible to do a good job with these cameras recording onto the
cameras 2 16 bit tracks. Be really prepared and LISTEN to the results on
a separate DV deck with a good amp and speaker attached. Don't trust the
meters on the camera. Good frigging luck.
Here all of Canons DV manuals: http://www.canondv.com/pdf/index.html
A general fairly complete shopping site is: http://www.videosmith.com/
The alternative is the BeachTek Box. Last box I had had a pad that was
much too large. I.e.: the signal was padded too much and the pots were
useless, not all BeachTeks are the same. You do not want to go over the
max. markings on the meters ever!
DXA-4 DXA-6
BeachTek has a sales web site: www.beachtek.com . Tel: (416) 690-9457 -
Fax: (416) 690-0866. Their tech help is uninformed. The boxes have a
3XLR input, a balancing transformer and a mike pad and an additional
adjustable pad on the 10 position volume knobs. Their camera specific
boxes are usually designed with wrong levels in mind and levels are not
managed properly by the pots. Be careful and test the stuff out well in
advance. Unfortunately they feed the always noisy minijack inputs on all
these DV cameras. New in 2002 : DXA-6 a new box that supplies 48V
phantom power from a 9V battery, has switchable grounds.
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa6.html
Studio One Productions make the XLR-PRO box that compete with BeachTek.
I have never seen one but the pix shows exposed switches (ugggh) 3956
Town Center Blvd PMB 159, Orlando, FL. 32837 Phone (407)812-1225 (800)
788-0068 Web Address http://www.studio1productions.com . List Price $249.00
New: The XLR-BP was specifically designed for those videographers who
are using dynamic microphones and battery power mics, such as Sennheiser
shotgun microphones. The XLR-BP will clip onto you belt and comes with
a 4 ft cable with a stereo mini-plug so it can plug into you camera's
mic jack. The XLR-BP is for use with the Steady Cam type of devices, as
AUDIO WITH SONY'S PD150 DV
Allan Barker writes Feb 2002:
This configuration we use for hand-held verite style shooting: The
microphone is a Sennheiser K6 (phantom only) /ME64 with a Shure 81WS
windscreen (not enough for outdoors). The foam doughnut has been removed
from inside the windscreen and a small hole is cut in the remaining
coarse foam plug which then fits tightly on the mic. The foam plug has
been slid to the rear inside the windscreen to leave an air space around
the head of the mic. The shock mount is a Beyer EA-86 which makes for a
low profile. The cable from the mic to the camera (Ch. 2) has
attenuation built in. One needs to optimize the output of the K6/ME64 to
work with the auto gain of the PD150 that is really a limiter. For the
current project in which the audio is mostly conversations in a hospital
( 3-6 feet distance), there the optimum is a fixed value. Channel 1, in
manual gain, is fed by a mixer via a Lectrosonics 100 series wireless
which is worn in a belt pouch. Earphones for cameraperson (essential)
are Sony Fontopia style. I'm not happy with these because they make you
feel deaf after a long day, but they give pretty good sound and don't
look too geeky.
http://www.sonystyle.com/electronics/prd.jsp?hierc=8632x8746x8747&catid=8747&pid=876&type=p
The wide adapter and lens hood are Century Precision, pricey but worth it.
Alternatively K-Tek makes a good mount/ adapter and use the Sennheisser
ME66 hypercardioid short shotgun with the Lightwave equalizer windsock (
good for outdoors).
http://www.lightwavesystems.com
For K-Tec 1386-A Poinsettia Ave., VISTA, CA 92083, Phone 760 727-0593 -
FAX 760 727-0693,
http://www.mklemme.com/ best place to buy from stock in LA is LSC
probably.
Sounddevices has a web page with a write up of the PD-150 sound
capabilities:
http://www.sounddevices.com/tech/pd150.htm here a shortened version:
On February 1, 2002 Jon Tatooles and Matt Anderson, Director of
Engineering writes:
Serious audio engineers are seeing the PD150 showing up on location,
and many are recording with its on-board audio. It’s small and not
really a professional tool but with a little attention can and is used
as a professional recorder.
Frequency Response: To sum it up, the on-board audio of the PD150 is
certainly good enough for speech and dialog recording, but for
high-resolution music or effects recording a separate recording medium
should be considered. Here is a frequency response chart of the of the
PD150 audio input in 16/48 kHz mode.
PD150 Frequency Response at 16/48 kHz: The frequency response is well
suited for speech and dialog applications. It’s “built-in high-pass
filter” and high frequency roll-off look more like a good public
address system’s frequency response than that of a digital recorder.
Here is a frequency response chart of the input in 12/32 kHz mode.
Notice the additional fall-off of the frequency response on the high
end because of the 32 kHz sample rate.
PD150 Frequency Response at 12/32 kHz: Again, this is adequate for
speech, but may be objectionable in critical music recording applications.
Dynamic Range: The dynamic range of the PD150's audio circuit certainly
doesn’t come close to the theoretical maximum available for a 16-bit
recording device. In fact, the maximum available dynamic range is about
72 dB. Whether in 12 bit or 16 bit mode, the dynamic range performance
is essentially unchanged. Sound Devices mixers and preamps have at
least 30 dB more dynamic range than the PD150.
The chart of the dynamic range of the PD150, including the maximum input
levels that each of the inputs can accept is on the website. Whether
connecting at mic or line level with the PD150 there is no benefit in
dynamic range. Set the input gain as close to unity as possible to
maximize dynamic range. [There may be a noise gate that is perceptible
on very low level signals. Be careful – ed]
The AGC: The PD150 has a defeatable AGC (automatic gain control). This
AGC works like a hard limiter. Below is a graph of the dynamic
response of the PD150 with the AGC enabled.
PD150 AGC Dynamic Response: When using a field mixer like the MixPre or
442, defeat the PD150 limiter and use the on-board limiter on the
mixer. The mixers limiters are much higher performance, work over a
wider range, and generally sound superior to the PD150 limiter.
Interconnection with the 442 Field Mixer and other Transformer-Balanced
Outputs
To set up a workable gain structure between the 442 Field Mixer to the
PD150 connect as follows:
1. Set the 442 to outputs to line level.
2. Set the PD150 inputs to line level.
3. Connect from the XLR output(s) of the 442 to the XLR input(s) on
the camera.
4. Turn off the AGC on both inputs in the camera's audio setup menu
5. Turn on the mixer's tone oscillator (0 dBu output) and adjust the
input gain on the camera so that the camera's audio meter reads 20 dB
below full scale, just above unity.
6. Turn on the 442's limiter and set the limiter threshold to the
factory default of +24 dBu.
The above settings will ensure that the mixer will not overload the
camera's audio inputs. Besides the benefit of lower noise gain provided
by the 442 (the 442 has considerably better EIN, equivalent input noise,
than the camera) the 442 has its breadth of routing and monitoring
features that are important in critical environments.
Interconnection with the MixPre Compact Mixer and other
Impedance-Balanced Outputs: Because of a design-related issue with
the PD150's audio inputs, its input cannot properly interface with
impedance-balanced outputs like those on the MixPre and MP-2. When used
with a MixPre, a special cable is required for proper interface to the
PD150. With the MixPre the interconnection to the PD150 will be at
microphone level using a cable wired to attenuate the MixPre output by
55 dB. As shown in the table above, there is no dynamic range penalty
using a mic level input to the PD150.
When connecting the MixPre to the PD150, connect as follows:
1. Set the PD150 inputs to mic level, without attenuation and without
phantom power.
2. Connect from the XLR output(s) of the MixPre to the XLR input(s)
on the camera with a cable wired as shown.
The 75K series resistor can be variable
3. Turn off the AGC on the PD150 inputs.
4. Turn on the MixPre's limiter and set the limiter threshold to the
fully clockwise position (factory default).
5. Set the camera gain to the unity position.
The above interconnection will ensure that the mixer will not overload
the camera's audio inputs. Besides the benefit of lower noise gain
provided by the MixPre (the MixPre has considerably better EIN,
(equivalent input noise), than the camera) the MixPre has its breadth
of routing and monitoring features that are important for production
applications.
Conclusion
The PD150's on-board audio can be used successfully for audio recordings
if you know its limitations. Critical audio recording is still best done
with dedicated audio recording hardware. © 1999 - 2002 Sound Devices,
LLC Jon Tatooles All Rights Reserved.
Decent website for PD-150:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/display.php3?level_a=PD-150%20Users%20Group
Sonys unfinished website for PAL version:
http://bpgprod.sel.sony.com/bpcnav/app/99999/2/11/58971.99999.product.BPC.html
Check this out: http://www.global-dvc.org/html/PD150.asp this is a
GREAT resource. MUST READ. Has manual and much useful info including the
BBC less noise different preamp sources.
the BBC is modifying the VX2000, the consumer version of the prosumer
PD150, and using that with the small Glensound GSTN1 mic amp:
http://www.glensound.co.uk/GSTN1.htm
For some hair-raising stories and advice on adventure shoots check out
what a filmmaker-climber who made it up Everest and across the deserts
of Tibet has to say: http://www.ambient.de/frame_e.html and
www.patmorrow.com
Sony DCR-VX2000 and Beach box
Sony Headphone Volume: push buttons on viewfinder – keep it up full. It
may be the noisiest (hissiest) part of the electronics. Yuk!
Beach box: this particular box we kept at two clicks from bottom (left)
so that a -20 dBFs tone (ref. 7VRMS) from PD-4 appears on the Sony Sound
meter (sort of VU) on the viewfinder about 1/3 of the way down. When we
sent a 0 dBFs tone to Sony, it hit maximum on the meter. Meter is mono
only. Sony mini-stereo input was switched to mike. This is probably
noisier than line in but Beach box has too much of a pad to allow a
decent level with line in position. Very bad. There seems to be a
limiter/compressor in the analog audio circuit in the Sony. The Sony
headphone amp is noisy but at least it has plenty of gain. OK with 600
(or 26) Sennheiser headphones or Sony 7608. The problem is the Beach box
pots' rough resolution at the bottom of their range. The whole Beach box
concept is valid (despite the poor low frequency performance), but I
have never found one that has the gain properly set for the respective
camera. Too bad. Since headphone monitoring is so compromised, I suggest
using the DAT as primary source of audio and just use the 2000 sound as
an editing rough reference.
The uninformative Sony site:
http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/service/dcrvx2000.shtml
Alan Barker finds the Sony DCR-VX 2000 sound quality to be so bad that
he does not recommend using it as the primary medium. He says: The short
advice is, don't buy a VX2000 unless you're planning on working double
system. Use a DAT running parallel with timecode slate instead and
latter replace all sound. A long detailed article: www.alanbarker.com .
He says: “There is no excuse for the level of background noise in the
VX2000. My VX1000E is far quieter and so is my Canon GL1. The Sony 150's
steadyshot is very good, not as good as that of the Canon GL1. The
Canon's has to be better because of the 20-1 zoom v. the Sony's 12-1.
About the VX 2000:
1. In auto gain, inputting a Sennheiser K6/ME64, it was necessary to
attenuate 15 dB in order to bring the mic’s output down into the auto
gain’s range, that’s normal. In order to match that recording level in
manual gain, the VX2000’s level setting needed to be approximately on
position 25 (out of 32), or about 3/4 of full gain. This is similar to
the calibration of the VX1000. The results are not similar. The system
noise in the VX2000 way out of line, unacceptable.
2. There are two kinds of hiss in both the VX1000 and the PD150P:
There’s ordinary system noise that goes up and down with the gain,
that’s a sort of high-pitched, smooth if you will, hiss. Then there’s a
coarse, crackly noise floor that does not rise and fall with gain. If
you gradually turn the gain down, somewhere between 1/3 and 1/4 of full
gain, the first hiss gets buried in this coarser one. The level of this
second hiss is fairly low and most users will be able to live with it
but it would be unacceptable on professional sound gear or even a
consumer Hi Fi system. This can be overcome with a hot mike of course.
3. The “buzzer” is the second fatal problem: read about it on his
website. There is a mod being done in Britain that allows turning off
the MIC NR. It's being done by the BBC in conjunction with Glensound.
4. Miscalibrated meter: Like the VX1000, the VX2000 effectively has no
limiter in manual gain. Read more on his site
4a. Limited headroom: Read more on his site
And further he says: If you admit to yourself that this dream camera [
the new DV you want so much] is just another toy, that you have no real
use for it, that you’d rather own an expensive camcorder than give the
money to some charity that might do something positive with it; then go
ahead and buy it. But buy with the awareness that as soon as enough
suckers like you have bought the latest model of a camera, the
manufacturers will bring out another model that you’ll want even more.
Sony TVR900 info at: http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/index.html
They have links to customer service and manual pages. Huge source of
stuff Must check out!
Also check out the ads in back of this free magazine dealing with all
the DV issues: www.videography.com
Interesting camera comparisons:
http://www.ferrario.com/ruether/camcorder-comparison.htm
Equipment Emporium makes a headphone matrix box that allows you to plug
in stereo phones and switch from stereo to either left or right in both
ears. Great if you are recording 2 track - RF on L and boom on R.
Ambient makes some useful items for DV work
TINY MIX: two channel audio mixer: The Tinymix was constructed to make
use of the 2 channel capability of most consumer digital video cameras.
It is a passive mixer which feeds through the mike powering from the
camera. Through selecting different pins on the input socket a line
level, dynamic mike or electret mike can be connected. Both channels can
be individually faded and there is a roll off filter for each input. An
integrated fixing post for the Tinymike soft suspension up front and an
accessory shoe at the top completes the unit. The Tinymix is
electrically isolated from the camera housing eliminating ground loops.
Peter Gray, an Australian Hollywood cameraman, has an incredible website
with all kinds of info. Interesting is the stuff on DV. He goes deep and
makes an awful lot of sense and some mistakes. MUST READ!
http://petergray.org email: d...@petergray.org
Jay Rose
> The camera doesn't have specific "line in"s. There's RCA inputs, but
there's a
> menu switch that lets you toggle between mic level, mic level with 20 dB
> attenuation, or line level. Basically, it seems to be a mic level input with
> an adjustable pad, as opposed to a real line level input.
Noah,
It's not a pad -- it's a negative feedback switch. S/N improves when you
kick it in. The optimal input level, considering S/N and THD+N from analog
in to digital out, seems to be -30 dBV on the RCAs.
I was surprised how much more you can learn by hanging test equipment on
these things after reading the manual... rather than by just reading the
manual and guessing how it's wired internally.
Jay
Jay Rose
> from my book...
> Jay Rose says: Canon's spec is either 16b/48k/2-track or
> 12b/32k/4-track. If you do the math, they both equal 1,536,000 bits per
> second. The 4-channel mode is PCM non-linear, which gets a little better
> performance out of mid-level sounds but doesnt change the noise floor.
> 12 bit is not good enough even for voice recording. Dramatic voices can
> get pretty loud unexpectedly, which is one reason why the standard
> nominal level is -20 dBFs. Theoretical noise floor of 12 bits is -72
> dBFs, practical on a prosumer camera is probably around -62. So your
> noise is -42 dB from the average voice, and too damned close to unvoiced
> fricatives. Now add a little compression for broadcast. And there is
> very little left. Forget a theatrical distribution with 12 bit sound.
> www.dplay.com
That was before I actually tested the camera. There's much newer
information at www.dv.com (issue of 11/02), and in the second edition of
"Producing Great Sound for Digital Video".
Noise floor in most setup situations --at the 16 bit setting-- is barely
worthy of 12-bit recording. That's one reason why XL1 (and all other
miniDV cams, including PD150) spec a nominal level of -12 dBFS.
These days, I'd say theatrical distribution with a miniDV cam means you
-have- to go double system for dialog. Use the camera tracks for sync ref,
B-roll, and stuff like that.
Richard Kuschel
Jay, Thanks for the right answer.
I played with the MA100 and came up with the correct solution even though I had
neither the book nor a 'scope.
I did use a board with known output levels, and oscillator, and my ears to come
up with the correct levels.