Time Track -- "The History of Hollywood Production Sound recording equipments & workflows"
Ron Scelza
equipments & workflows" from the 35MM Variable density track recorders in
trucks to the Zaxcom Deva on location: As Hollywood changes technology the
world of production adapts to its changes.
Using the premise that if past history is known it will clear a path to a
future. I thought it might be interesting to start a thread on the effects
of past and present acceptance of a new technology into a film sound
production workflow.
In the 70's I worked at Gomillion Sound in Hollywood, (On Highland). The
choice of the then recordist was a Nagra IV. Forethinking Dubbing Machine
operators whose job it was to load the many interlocked dubbers with reels
of striped 35mag for a mix started looking to other types of employment. The
NLE was emerging as a "Faster-Better".
Enjoy it all
Sincerely
Ron Scelza C.A.S.
http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com
Ron Scelza
"Ron Scelza" <wala...@Bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:JGVKg.45780$w7.1...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
sync...@gmail.com
Maybe I'm just dense (or variable-density:), but is there a link to
this paper that I missed in your post?
Thanks,
Christian
Ron Scelza
No--- you haven't missed anything. I was hoping to gather some data on
these subjects... Dunno... I haven't yet tried to google Variable density
and Varable area 35mm sound recording yet..
Great question though!
Enjoy it all
Sincerely
Ron Scelza
Http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com
<sync...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157399419.2...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
mikewest
Ron Scelza
news:1157405125.2...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...> And what
Hi Mike,
Oh my goddness --- Whats that?
Sincerely
Ron scelza CAS
http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com
">
Ron Scelza
"Ron Scelza" <wala...@Bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:JGVKg.45780$w7.1...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> equipments & workflows" from the 35MM Variable density track recorders in
> trucks to the Zaxcom Deva on location: As Hollywood changes technology the
> world of production adapts to its changes.
Heres a link to these full articles leading to the Variable width tracks;
(I have not a clue to the workflow)
http://history.acusd.edu/gen/recording/motionpicture.html
1915 - Harold Arnold began program at Bell Labs to improve sound recording
using the vacuum tube amplifier, condenser microphone, balanced armature
loudspeaker, and light valve. This would lead to the electrical recording
technology used by the two basic motion picture sound systems: sound-on-disc
and sound-on-film. Edward B. Craft was asst. chief engineer at Western
Electric 1918-1922, then VP of Bell Labs 1925. He led the motion picture
sound project. He arranged demonstrations at Yale Oct. 27, 1922, and in Feb.
1924 for the sound-on-disc method that produced better sound than the
sound-on-film method. A recording studio was set up in 1923 to make
experimental films. The Western Electric sound-on-disc system made test
films in room 1109 at 463 West St. by H. M. Stoller, under project chief J.
P. Maxfield. T. L. Downey designed the recording turntable; H. C. Harrison
designed the electrical recording head with cutting sylus; E. C. Wente
designed condenser microphone (Patent No. 1,333,744 filed December 20, 1916)
and an improved light valve for sound-on-film (Patent No. 1,638,555
file1924 - "The first experimental, electrically recorded talking picture
was exhibited with success in Woolsey Hall at Yale University in New Haven
in October, 1922.
Later in 1925, Sam Warner arrived in New York with Levinson and attended a
demonstration. His reaction was that the system was "the greatest thing in
the world." Subsequently, the Vitaphone Corp. was organized in 1926 [sic -
correct date for the formation of the Vitaphone Corporation is 1925, after
Walter J. Rich signed a formal agreement with Western Electric May 27, 1925,
to create a sound film company, and sold half interest of the rights to
Warner Bros. June 25, 1925 - see Hochheiser p. 281] and on August 6th, 1926,
Western Electric and Bell Labs in collaboration with Warner Brothers
Pictures, Inc., and the Vitaphone Corp. showed the world's first successful
commercial sound picture, Don Juan, featuring John Barrymore, at the
Warners' Theater in New York. The success of The Jazz Singer, starring Al
Jolson in 1927 completed the conquest of the "silents" by the Bell Labs/WE
system." (from "BTL Historic Record Collection - Background Information"
1979)
1924 film called Hawthorne. This was a film with sound-on-disc showing
Western Electric's role as the manufacturing unit of the Bell System. It was
the first industrial sound picture and was shown at the Hotel Astor in New
York at a dinner given by C. G. DuBois, then president of Western Electric,
to 250 Bell System officials. By 1924, many people thought sound motion
pictures should be commercialized.d May 1, 1923).
1930 - After the invention of electrical recording that made sound pictures
possible after 1926, the motion picture soundtrack was standardized as a
single-track (monaural) sound-on-film (optical) track on the edge of a 35mm
film strip.
http://history.acusd.edu/gen/recording/motionpicture.html
An example of such a soundtrack can be seen at right, in the image of a 35mm
film with the wavy line of the optical sound on the left side between the
image and the sprocket holes. Some variable width tracks had a solid black
left edge, as in the example at right, or some had a solid right edge, or
some were variable on both edges. In most theaters, a Western Electric 35mm
film projector had an optical pickup head that read the variable width or
variable density image with a selenium photoelectric cell, producing an
electrical signal that went to a monaural tube amplifier that drove a large
horn speaker behind the screen at the front of the theater (see Sound
Research at Bell Labs for the development of electrical recording).
mikewest
density.
Bi-lateral variable area give a lower distortion figure.
By the 70's American optical tracks gave remarkable quality and
up to a 13kHz cut-off point.
Part of my BBC training.
Regards
martin griffith
"mikewest" <mike...@soundtq.co.nz> wrote:
was that the "push pull" method, where the track was symmetrically
mirrored?
(Its been a long time since my film sound recording course at Ealing)
martin
Ron Scelza
http://www.georgegroves.org.uk/bibliography.html
GEORGE GROVES - THE FIRST SOUND MAN
A TRIBUTE TO THE ENGLISH-BORN, OSCAR-WINNING, MOVIE SOUND PIONEER
"Ron Scelza" <wala...@Bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1%0Lg.613$Ca4...@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
Ron Scelza
"Ron Scelza" <wala...@Bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> Time Track -- "The History of Hollywood Production Sound recording
> equipments & workflows" from the 35MM Variable density track recorders in
> trucks to the Zaxcom Deva on location: As Hollywood changes technology the
> world of production adapts to its changes.
in October 1926, the first feature film with synchronized playback
throughout to show to a broad audience.
Link to full article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_film#Production
Sound-on-film would ultimately win out over sound-on-disc because of a
number of fundamental technical advantages:
· Synchronization: no interlock system was completely reliable, and
sound could fall out of synch due to disc skipping or minute changes in film
speed, requiring constant supervision and frequent manual adjustment
· Editing: discs could not be directly edited, severely limiting the
ability to make alterations in their accompanying films
· Distribution: phonograph discs added extra expense and complication
to film distribution
· Wear and tear: the physical process of playing the discs degraded
them, requiring their replacement after approximately twenty screenings
Nonetheless, in the early years, sound-on-disc had the edge over
sound-on-film in two substantial ways:
· Production and capital cost: it was generally less expensive to
record sound onto disc than onto film and the central exhibition
systems-turntable/interlock/projector-were cheaper to manufacture than the
complex image-and-audio-pattern-reading projectors required by sound-on-film
· Audio quality: gramophone discs, Vitaphone's in particular, had
superior dynamic range to most sound-on-film processes of the day, at least
during the first few playings-while sound-on-film tended to have better
frequency response, this was outweighed by greater distortion and noise
As sound-on-film technology improved, both of these disadvantages were
overcome. The third crucial set of innovations marked a major step forward
in both the live recording of sound and its effective playback:
Production
The phenomenon of the "talkies" is viewed as the final industry-wide
development resulting in the domination of the Hollywood studio system over
the global film business; at the same time, the introduction of synchronized
sound caused immense difficulties in production. Cameras were noisy, so a
soundproofed camera booth was used in the earliest talkies to isolate the
loud equipment from the actors, at the expense of a drastic reduction in the
ability to move the camera. The necessity to place microphones just so meant
that actors often had to limit their movements unnaturally. In addition,
some silent-era actors simply did not have attractive voices. These kinds of
problems-famously spoofed in the 1952 film Singin' in the Rain-were soon
solved with camera casings modified to suppress noise, boom microphones
(essentially microphones on long poles to be held just above the
photographed scene but out of the frame), and post-production sound
recording techniques that facilitated, among other things, the dubbing of
vocal performances. Show Girl in Hollywood (1930), from First National
Pictures (which Warner Bros. had taken control of thanks to its profitable
adventure into sound), provides a good behind-the-scenes look at some of the
techniques involved in shooting early sound films.
Enjoy it All
stephenwainwright
> George Groves, has written history, I Haven't read it yet!
> http://www.georgegroves.org.uk/bibliography.html
>
> GEORGE GROVES - THE FIRST SOUND MAN
> A TRIBUTE TO THE ENGLISH-BORN, OSCAR-WINNING, MOVIE SOUND PIONEER>>
Thanks for the mention Ron and the email, but George Groves died 30
years ago this month. My web site is a tribute to George who was the
first film 'sound man', recording initially onto disc. As well as
playing an important role in developing the technology at Bell Labs, he
used it to record Don Juan and the early Al Jolson films, including the
Jazz Singer. My site www.georgegroves.org.uk does refer to the
technology and there's some interesting stories of the technical
difficulties of those days, but it isn't a technical site as such.
Some of the web links on the site may interest you, however.
George had an engineering background and wrote some important papers
for SMPE, but didn't write a book as such. The bibliography on the web
site is a list of recommended reading relating to the site's content.
In case of further confusion, George has a son, George Groves Jnr, who
runs his own sound design company of that name in LA.
Best regards and good luck with your thread,
Stephen Wainwright
St.Helens, England
Ron Scelza
Thank you for dropping by and I hope you might be avilable to this thread.
.It might be a little difficult to talk with Mr Groves Sr,
about his techinal achevements. www.georgegroves.org.uk
Sincerely
Ron Scelza
http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com
"stephenwainwright" <stpwai...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1157464838.3...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Eric Pierce
From http://www.oscars.org/events/vitaphone/index.html
Eighty years ago an innovation called “Vitaphone” introduced
synchronized sound to the movies, changing the movie industry forever.
This risky venture by Western Electric and the Warner brothers (Harry,
Sam, Albert and Jack) used a “sound-on-disc” method (one of several
technologies being explored at the time) to synchronize dialogue, music
and sound effects to moving images on the screen. On August 6, 1926,
Vitaphone premiered in New York City with a number of short films and
the feature Don Juan, starring John Barrymore, to the extreme delight of
an enthusiastic audience. This success was soon followed by The Jazz
Singer and hundreds of other Vitaphone shorts and feature films. Until
the summer of 1926, studios had frowned upon the idea of “talkies,” but
the triumph of Vitaphone proved unequivocally that synchronized sound
was here to stay.
The Council’s exhibition entitled “In Synch: The Birth of Vitaphone”
tells the remarkable story of the Vitaphone Corporation by showcasing
the people, the inventions and the impact of this revolutionary
technology. It features an original lathe used for cutting Vitaphone wax
records; a projector turntable; original wax, metal and plastic discs;
and a special keepsake of Jack Warner’s – the original sound-mixing
panel from The Jazz Singer.
Located in the foyer of the Linwood Dunn Theater at the Academy’s
Pickford Center for Motion Picture Study, the exhibition runs through
December 3 and can be viewed during all Academy public programs being
hosted at the Dunn.
The Academy’s Linwood Dunn Theater is located at 1313 North Vine Street
in Hollywood, California. Free parking is available behind the building,
through the entrance on Homewood Avenue (one block north of Fountain).
For more information, please call the Academy at (310) 247-3600.
Ron Scelza
Thank you
Sincerely
Ron Scelza
"Eric Pierce" <thefir...@ericsound.com> wrote in message
news:VBjLg.784$2J4...@newsfe05.lga...
Scott Smiith
Interesting thread. You're really opening the Pandora's box here! I
started working on a paper very much along these lines this a few years
ago, but ran out of time to devote to it. I like the title, though....
When I started in the business, one of my duties was the recording of
optical sound tracks for release prints. I have to say I'm happy not to
be dealing with all that grief....(processing chemistry, printer slip,
lamp aging, cross-mod tests, etc., etc.)
There's a lot to cover, to say the least. One good resource is the
SMPTE Journal, the other one is Howard Tremaine's "Audio Cyclopedia",
which an engineering aquaintance of mine gave me when I was in my
teens, and just starting out in audio. I think I probably read that
thing from cover to cover - a great resource for film audio up until
about 1969. Anyone in film audio should own a copy.
Another good resource are Tom Holman's books and articles on film
sound, as well as Larry Blake's "Film Sound Today".
There have been quite a few variations on optical tracks throughout the
period from "The Jazz SInger" to the present. It would take at least 10
pages to cover them in any kind of detail.
The two major competing systems were RCA and Western Electric. The WE
system used a ribbon light valave, and RCA used a galvanometer
("galvo"). Both systems had the capability of doing variable-density or
variable-area tracks. The RCA system commonly used dual bilateral VA
tracks. think that the WE system was the only one to use dual push-pull
variable density tracks, but I'd have to check my resources on that.
I have heard some extremely well recorded variable density tracks over
the years, but the quality varies widely. The major issue with density
tracks is that it required the processing gamma to be held within very
tight tolerences, which virtually no lab could do back in the day. But
when they hit it right, though, the quality could be quite impressive
(given the limitations of the system).
John Maurer came along later with a rather unique variable area system,
which had six (!) bilateral tracks.
And then along came Dolby Variable Area Stereo, and the rest is
history....
Scott D. Smith C.A.S.
Ron Scelza
"Scott Smiith" <li...@chicagoaudio.com> wrote in message
news:1157502469.7...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Ron,
>
> Interesting thread. You're really opening the Pandora's box here! I
> started working on a paper very much along these lines this a few years
> ago, but ran out of time to devote to it. I like the title, though....
Dear Scott,
Enlighting post! Thank you for the references . It's new news and
appreciated by me... I'm sure many here on RAMPS -- "finish your "paper --
book", I'd love to read it.
Did the change from an optical to a magnetic film work flow seem less
complicated having a smoother transition then what you have observed in
today's change to a File Based System?
<Scott D. Smith C.A.S wrote:
<When I started in the business, one of my duties was the recording of
<optical sound tracks for release prints. I have to say I'm happy not to
<be dealing with all that grief.... (Processing chemistry, printer slip,
<lamp aging, cross-mod tests, etc., etc.)
Sounds to me; You welcomed the change to magnetic... Did the industry,
and the world welcome it?
Thank you
Sincerely
Ron Scelza CAS
http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com
Ron Scelza
Eric Pierce, Quoted text Posted: <Snip> Until
the summer of 1926, studios had frowned upon the idea of “talkies,” but
the triumph of Vitaphone proved unequivocally that synchronized sound
was here to stay.<snip>
Dear Eric,
It's amazing how difficult and slow it is for revolutionary change from old
accepted ways. Thanks again for this article.
Eric Pierce
I'm always interested in history, and your thread has sparked an idea.
This exhibition at the Linwood Dunn Theater could be a great opportunity
for the 695 Education committee to get together with the Academy and
produce a really great event for us. Since both Jeff and Wolf hang out
here, maybe they could chime in about the probability of this.
Regards,
Eric Pierce
stephenwainwright
Thanks for the information on the exhibit at the Linwood Dunn Theater.
I've added it to my George Groves web site. I'd really love a
photograph of that mixing desk/panel that George used on the Jazz
Singer. If anyone visits the theatre and is able to take a picture of
the desk (as it's in the foyer I suspect photography might be allowed),
I would greatly appreciate it so I can add it to the site.
I expect recording The Jazz Singer was a tad easier than recording Don
Juan and the Vitaphone shorts. This is George's account to the AFI
just before he died:
<<When Warner Brothers became convinced that the thing [sound-on-disc
recording] was a practical device, and decided to put a big program on,
and show it, they took over the Manhattan Opera House on 35th street in
New York, and converted it into a studio. The seats were all taken
out, the stage was extended over the whole auditorium, we moved in bag
and baggage. The boxes were made into recording rooms. Dressing rooms
were used as machine rooms and repair shops. And the only convenient
place where a mixer could sit was in the Masonic Shrine room on the
sixth floor of the building, in front of the building.
So all the microphone lines from the stage were run up through the
ventilating system to the Shrine room, and brought out through the
grille where the ventilating air normally came out, and the mixer panel
fastened onto that grille. That's where I sat, and spent a lot of my
time, recording the first Vitaphone programs. Anytime there was a
change of set-up or a slight case of trouble, I had to go down six
flights in an elevator, then up the stage, get back up, and go back
upstairs. And did a lot of running. I kept in good condition.>>
Regards
Stephen Wainwright
St.Helens, England
www.georgegroves.org.uk
Ron Scelza
> Ron,
>
> I'm always interested in history, and your thread has sparked an idea.
> This exhibition at the Linwood Dunn Theater could be a great opportunity
> for the 695 Education committee to get together with the Academy and
> produce a really great event for us. Since both Jeff and Wolf hang out
> here, maybe they could chime in about the probability of this.
>
> Regards,
> Eric Pierce
Dear Eric,
That would certainly be a big "Booyah" -- "Hoorey for Hollywood Production
Sound Achevement" ... We are very fortunate to have so many historians
here on RAMPS -- like Steven Wainwright, author "George Groves , The First
Sound Man" monitoring this thread
http://www.georgegroves.org.uk/achievements.html
G. John Garrett, C.A.S
> <<Ron Scelza wrote:
>
>>George Groves, has written history, I Haven't read it yet!
>>http://www.georgegroves.org.uk/bibliography.html
>>
>>GEORGE GROVES - THE FIRST SOUND MAN
>>A TRIBUTE TO THE ENGLISH-BORN, OSCAR-WINNING, MOVIE SOUND PIONEER>>
>
>
> Thanks for the mention Ron and the email, but George Groves died 30
> years ago this month. My web site is a tribute to George who was the
> first film 'sound man', recording initially onto disc. As well as
> playing an important role in developing the technology at Bell Labs, he
> used it to record Don Juan and the early Al Jolson films, including the
> Jazz Singer. My site www.georgegroves.org.uk does refer to the
>
I can't make the link work :-/
John
stephenwainwright
Stephen
Ron Scelza
Sometimes I get a great laugh of myself ... It's a comedy after reading
the words that come out of my fingers.. I hope George doesn't mind, I'l
will call him and find
out...
Enjoy it all
Sincerely
Ron Scelza CAS
http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com
stephenwainwright
button. What a good idea!
George Groves had a sense of humour and I think would have enjoyed the
joke. As I enjoyed the email Ron sent to me on Tuesday which began
"Dear Mr. Groves, Hope you're having a great day...!
Stephen Wainwright
www.georgegroves.org.uk
Scott Smiith
Well, I'm not actually so old that we were using optical sound for
production recording (although some days it feels like it...)
The work I did was only for release prints in the early to late
seventies. All of the intermediate work (editorial and mixing) was done
on magnetic (I did, however, have to deal with a couple of old
forward-only selsyn interlock systems. Blow a cue at 950', and it's
back to the beginning!).
Here's what I have gleaned from my discussions with some "old-timers"
though (I'm really trying hard to keep out of that category!):
1. While most of the engineering staff welcomed the shift to mag,
editors hated it, as they had grown accustom to reading the modulations
on the optical tracks (much as we deal view them on a screen in DAW
programs). To deal with this, a device called the "soundscriber" was
installed on many of the magnetic transfer recorders used early on,
which would inscribe the modulations on the base side of the film.
Eventually, as editors grew more accustom to dealing with mag film, and
the transfer operators got tired of replacing the ink pens, this
practice faded.
2. Although the basic "workflow" was the same for both optical and mag,
the tiresome process of having to "bloop" the splices on the edited
optical tracks was eliminated. Probably took a lot of assistant
editorial jobs along with it...
3. When a reprint was needed for a optical sound element, it had to be
reprinted from the track negative and processed at the lab. Even though
labs (especially those on the lot) were fairly quick on turnarounds for
sound elements, this obviously took much more time than a trip to the
transfer department for a mag reprint.
While there were certainly some issues early on with the changeover to
mag (equipment modifications, stock problems, etc), the change took
place rather quickly, and nearly everyone from the engineers to the
accountants seemed happy with the improved quality, as well as savings
in time and money (although converting all those optical dubbers to mag
wasn't cheap). It is rather interesting to note that many studios made
a practice of re-using 35mm fullcoat stock, though, as it was rather
pricey. I suspect that this is why many films have ended up with no
master mag elements to go with them.
All in all, I think the process was much easier than what we are going
through today with file-based media. This is due primarily to the fact
that even though the format was different, it was still all running at
24 FPS on 35mm (or 16mm) stock. Most of the editorial and mixing
equipment was easily adapted, and the basic workflow for editorial and
mixing remained the same. The biggest advantage was that with the
advent of rock & roll interlock systems, you could go back to wherever
you needed to during the mix, and simply "punch-in" at whatever point
you wished (try doing that with an optical recorder!).
While you still had to deal with issues like bias and EQ adjustments
for mag, this paled in comparison to doing all the tweaking neccesary
to come up with a good quality sound negative, especially on location.
Back in the day, those guys actually had to know what they were doing
(at least the recordists). You screw up just one adjustment (say, the
exposure lamp current), and you get canned when they hear dailies the
next day. The heads of those studio sound departments didn't f**k
around, either. I heard more than a few stories of guys getting dumped
off a crew for sometimes minor errors.
These days, unless you do something REALLY dumb, (like sleep with the
director's wife), the chances of getting fired are pretty slim.
If anyone is really interested in all this stuff, I might try and at
least put together a list of references for reading.
--Scott D. Smith C.A.S.
Ron Scelza
> Well, I'm not actually so old that we were using optical sound for
> production recording (although some days it feels like it...)
Dear Scott,
I imagine you as a very, very old Master.. Thank you for sharing the
history that you have "experienced" -- As with George, It might take a
wegie board to be there for those times. Aligning the time track is a lot
more confusing to me, then hanging a SMPTE alignment tape.. I think Jeff
W.. was there... "CHIME"..
Thank you for the offer of your list -- It might (?) help. (I have a
major confusion with this "time-event" double system sound work flows.
One outstanding unanswered question fitting this time track. Is a photon
a photon on any media still a photon (vinyl, celluloid, disk)? Where do
they go
when they get erased? Why the backwards screw on a switchcraft connector?
( other subjects for a later posts).
Scott Smiith" <li...@chicagoaudio.com> wrote in message
news:1157598723.4...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Posted by Scott D. Smith
<All in all, I think the process was much easier than what we are going
<through today with file-based media. This is due primarily to the fact
<that even though the format was different, it was still all running at
<24 FPS on 35mm (or 16mm) stock. Most of the editorial and mixing
<equipment was easily adapted, and the basic workflow for editorial and
<mixing remained the same. The biggest advantage was that with the
<advent of rock & roll interlock systems, you could go back to wherever
<you needed to during the mix, and simply "punch-in" at whatever point
<you wished (try doing that with an optical recorder!).
"Scott Smiith" <li...@chicagoaudio.com> wrote in message
news:1157598723.4...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Posted by Scott D. Smith
<SNIP>> 1. While most of the engineering staff welcomed the shift to mag,
> editors hated it, as they had grown accustom to reading the modulations
> on the optical tracks (much as we deal view them on a screen in DAW
> programs). <SNIP>
Was driving force to this change a faster access and higher quality?
Was the quality of sound sacrificed to a faster image access in the
29.97/24fps workflow?
Is the faster access to sound using "File Based, double system production
recording bringing us back to a faster access and higher quality sound on
picture
or will all this quality be lost again to speed in a quagmire of slow
format conversions?
Enjoy it all
Sincerely
Ron Scelza C.A.S.
http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com
Ron Scelza
"mikewest" <mike...@soundtq.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1157405125.2...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Variable area gives a better signal to noise ratio than variable
> density.
> Bi-lateral variable area give a lower distortion figure.
> By the 70's American optical tracks gave remarkable quality and
> up to a 13kHz cut-off point.
> www.mikewestgatesound.co.nz
Dear Mike,
After reading these englighting posts and some of the wonderful history
shared here
I think this might be a good time to deviate for a minute from the workflow
time track and ask this group the following unanswered questions; with
regard to light, bandwidth, losses, attinuating connectors, Time travel,
impediance,and radio frequency transmission.
<One outstanding unanswered question fitting this time track. Is a <photon a
photon on any media still a photon (vinyl, celluloid, disk)? <Where do they
go when they get erased?
<Why the backwards screw on a witchcraft connector?
If modulated sound travels at the speed of light and the sun went out could
you hear the sound falling out of detected modulated AM tracks ?
If a transducer converts one energy to another form of energy, -- in the
case of light -- where does the unconverted energy go?How long does it take
to get there?
Jay Rose
> If modulated sound travels at the speed of light and the sun went out
> could you hear the sound falling out of detected modulated AM tracks ?
>
> If a transducer converts one energy to another form of energy, -- in
> the case of light -- where does the unconverted energy go?How long does
> it take to get there?
I know you're kidding with the koans, but for the benefit of newbie lurkers:
a) Modulated sound doesn't travel at the speed of light, only sound
modulated onto light does. Modulated sound as electrons on a wire is
considerably slower.
If the sun went out, we wouldn't know it for at a little more than 8
minutes. And then, the screams would probably mask any sound coming
from optical readers.
b) Some transducers (dynamic mics, most loudspeakers) convert one form
of energy to another; inefficiencies result in mechanical vibration or
heat. Others (condenser mics, for example) modulate one form of energy
by another, converting a very tiny amount of sound to heat in the
process. A variable-area recorder converts electronic representations
of acoustic energy into tiny amounts of heat. Both of these heat
energies are dissipated in the air.
--
Jay Rose CAS
tutorials and other sound goodies at dplay.com
email is "jay@" plus the dot-com in the previous line.
Ron Scelza
"Jay Rose" <see_s...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:<2006090712401216807-seesigfile@nowherecom>...
Jay Rose Wrote:
> If the sun went out, we wouldn't know it for at a little more than 8
> minutes. And then, the screams would probably mask any sound coming from
> optical readers.
Hi Jay,
It's always good to learn something new in a fun way..
Thank you for keeping this thread in the "Light" and at 300,000,000,000
words per second FAST.
We have great wealth of information in our history and here on RAMPS for the
newbie's as well as myself , We wouldn't want to confuse by adding the
antenna as being a type of transducer also....
Or the heat ("I" squared "R " ) losses and the Time constant ("I" times "R )
caused by a electronic current flowing through any resistance as they pass
and transform their energy in a transducer with a near zero impedance.
Not funny stuff... if there will be 8 minutes of blasting sound waves some
where in the universe?
This is very serious...
Thank you Jay
Enjoy it All
Scott Smiith
these days (at least it doesn't fall out!). We still can't agree on
which whether pin two or three is hot!
--Scott
> One outstanding unanswered question fitting this time track. Is a photon
> a photon on any media still a photon (vinyl, celluloid, disk)? Where do
> they go
> when they get erased? Why the backwards screw on a switchcraft connector?
> ( other subjects for a later posts).
Ron Scelza
Larry Fisher
shell. If you don't think about it, it works perfectly. Switchcraft
figured most of the users wouldn't think about it since 99.9% of all
screws, nuts and bolts tighten in a clockwise direction.
Also when you "loosen" the screw it goes into the insert and is safely
retained. The Cannon version at the time (many years ago) had a screw
that tightend in a clockwise direction but it could and did fall out.
I assume Switchcraft was trying to be compatible with the earlier (I
think) Cannon product.
LarryF
Lectro
Is there any manufacture out there (finally) not using pin 2 as hot
and/or positive polarity?
LarryF
Lectro
On 12 Sep 2006 08:43:32 -0700, "Scott Smiith" <li...@chicagoaudio.com>
wrote:
Ron Scelza
I just read back my post .... please accept my apology... for the above
Time Constant formula.
I can't believe that I wrote the above formula as Ohms law and not the RC
(Time Constant)
The time constant T= R(x)C.. ( Time = Resistance x capacitance) " used for
timed circuits
It the time it takes to charge a capacitor 63% going through a resistance..
Ohms law" .. E= IxR.. if you calculate the "IxR " ( Voltage = Current
times the Resistance ).
I hope that this is right as usual I rush around and this time on the road
tomorrow
Sincerely
Ron
Ron Scelza" <wala...@Bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:CVYLg.40536$y7.2...@bignews6.bellsouth.net...