This is probably a really stupid question about timecode
Dave Barak
Is there any possibility of recording SMPTE timecode on a non-timecode DAT
recorder? Maybe some sort of external box? I've been corresponding with
someone at a film lab (they do audio transfers too) who seems to think that
all DATs have some sort of timecode. My thought is that he might be right,
but that "non-timecode" DATs just have timecode for internal use, not for
syncing up with other machines.
Dave
Frank Kruse
seconds. this can´t be set, output or synced by an external source. some
pro-machines are able to take the ABS-Time of a non-tc tape and interpolate
a TC internaly and even chase but this is not suitable when syncing
precisely.
frank.
on 09.05.2001 3:00 Uhr in lE0K6.137144$BB5.1...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com
Dave Barak DBA...@INSIGHT.RR.COM wrote :
--
Frank Kruse
Sound for Motion Picture
www.wildtrax.de
Peter Kurland
be used for converting in post to SMPTE. However, it can't be input or output
directly. You can record Longitudinal Time Code (LTC) which is a kind of SMPTE
code onto an audio track. Recent posts here suggest that when input into the
Avid, it can use that code directly.
Eric Toline
This is probably a really stupid question about timecode
Group: rec.arts.movies.production.sound Date: Wed, May 9, 2001, 1:00am
(EDT+4) From: DBA...@INSIGHT.RR.COM (Dave Barak)
All dat machines record something called "A" time which is the runnng
time of the tape in hrs:min:sec but no frames. To record SMPTE on a
non-tc unit you'll have to get the tc from somewhere and put it on track
2 of the audio tracks at a low level, then you'll have to tell post what
you've done so they can reconfigure their pb setup to pick up the tc.
It's really more trouble then it's worth.
Eric
Arne Hansen
<fr...@wildtrax.de> wrote:
> Non-TC DATs only record a so called absolute time that only goes down to
> seconds. this can´t be set, output or synced by an external source. some
> pro-machines are able to take the ABS-Time of a non-tc tape and
> interpolate
> a TC internaly and even chase but this is not suitable when syncing
> precisely.
The thing is that all datmachines records the timecode at a framerate of
33.333 frames per second. (A-time is also recorded at 33.33fps). At
record and at playback a gearbox convers the timecode to desired format.
This explains why you can record a dattape with timecode in 24fps and
replay it in lets say 25fps.
To playback a dattape whitout timecode, you simply tell the gearbox to
convert your A-time to Timecode. Somebody said that a-time is less
acurat than timecode, the thing is that since both formats record at
33.33fps the acuracy is the same.
The main drawback of recording on a non-TC datmacine is not about
acuracy, but the fact that you can´t record an external timecode (well
you could record it on audiotrack 2, but it sounds dangourus doesn´t
it????)
-arne
Brian Shennan
Get your post house to post stripe your non timecode Dat. As long as you
have a continuous control track and by this I mean you haven't rewound the
tape to listen back to any track during the recording process then you can
do it. It is even possible to do it without a continuous control track but
it requires careful monitoring by the person who is doing it. If this makes
you nervous, as I was the first time this happened,then simply get them to
do a digital to digital dub from one Dat machine to a timecode Dat
machine.No loss and continuous trouble free timecode.
Regards,
Brian
"Dave Barak" <DBA...@INSIGHT.RR.COM> wrote in message
news:lE0K6.137144$BB5.1...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com...
Dave Barak
That's kind of what I was thinking -- more trouble than it's worth. The lab
I've been talking with suggested dubbing onto a tc-DAT, which certainly
works for me, although I'd imagine it'll add a little extra expense. Then
again, it's probably cheaper than buying a tc-DAT...
Dave
"Eric Toline" <Audi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23280-3AF...@storefull-123.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Dave Barak
regular manual for the DAT, as well as a more technical document, and didn't
see anything about timecode. At least it can be dubbed onto a tc-DAT later.
Dave
"Frank Kruse" <fr...@wildtrax.de> wrote in message
news:B71E6FBE.133E%fr...@wildtrax.de...
Dave Barak
"Arne Hansen" <arnePUNK...@runboxPUNKTUM.com> wrote in message
news:arnePUNKTUMhansen-1...@news.chello.no...
Dave Barak
Yep, someone else here mentioned recording timecode on track two, but
thought it wasn't worth the trouble. I'll probably just have the lab dub it
to a tc-DAT first.
Dave
"Arne Hansen" <arnePUNK...@runboxPUNKTUM.com> wrote in message
news:arnePUNKTUMhansen-1...@news.chello.no...
Dave Barak
dub it to a tc-DAT at the lab.
Dave
"Peter Kurland" <pkur...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3AF8A3BF...@earthlink.net...
Dave Barak
Thanks for the reply! The lab suggested the same thing you did -- a dub to a
tc-DAT. I was thinking about trying to save a step and possibly a little
money, but I think doing dubs would be a whole lot cheaper than buying a DAT
with timecode.
Dave
"Brian Shennan" <abcsh...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:9db153$2f55$1...@raewyn.paradise.net.nz...
Chris Price
a long time ago for the Nagra 4.2. There was an Aaton box which screwed onto
the botton of the Nagra. it was an accurate timecode generator and a circuit
which reacted to the record on signal in that it cut off the audio and
inserted a burst of timecode at the beginning of the Audio take. Audio level
was lowered during the burst to prevent timecode corruption
In post this timecode was read by an Aaton reader generator which
regenerated the timecode for the whole stake starting at the time read off
the burst. Drift was minimal as takes were not more than the length of the
tape 20 mins and were being resolved by pilot to Crystal during playback. Of
course the Nagra burst generator was accurate and the burst was accurate
for every take, only the restriping could vary a little due to the accuracy
of the restriping generator compared to the pilot crystal reference.
I would still do it this way on a non timecode DAT.
Ideally you need a signal from the recorder telling you its gone into
record. Audio levels are lowered for the burst and if the sound is coming
from a mixer it can be done by putting a reed relay in the audio line
switching timecode and audio. the reed relay is controlled by a pulse
generator triggerd by the record on signal or manual push button. I wouldnt
work from the DAT alone which is usually a consumer unit as its hardly worth
meddling about inside and I would use an external mixer and the relay.
Also the if one can't get hold of the record signal form the DAT then a
manual push button does the job if one doesn't forget!!
Post production is easy as Avid can read the code on an audio track and
restripe the take in a moment.
In a tape to tape transfer like DAT to timecode DAT or Nagra to Timecode
DAT any timecode generator with automatic jam from burst will do. Check
burst length is long enough to jam it should be at least 1.5 seconds.
We made our own box like this for several Nagra 4.2 units but then all
interest dried up some years ago. the principle is easily transferred to
other recording mediums like minidisc, and cassette recorder provided it has
pilot Tone to resolve on playback like the Amsync system using TCD5 or WMD6
recorders.
We don't make the Amsync any more but it went well in its time
Full credit for the burst system must go to Aaton who really pioneered
timecode to film long before there were timecode audio recorders
Cheers
Chris Price
Ambient
>
Glen Trew
and a home-made interface box for the timecode burst at the beginning. This
allowed me to take a pocket sized rig on horseback instead of a full sized
Nagra IV-STC. I'm surprized that this method wasn't used more often, because
it worked very well. The only drawback is that the original had to be
transfered to a timecode recorder. A minor inconvenience compared to the
option at the time.
Glen Trew
"Chris Price" <in...@ambient.de> wrote in message
news:9dbe9g$t9f$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
Dave Barak
> yes, there is a time code on any "standard" DAT tape, it is part of the
> standard!! it is called A-Time, and most every machine shows it on a
> display. it is not the same as SMPTE TC. come come, do you really
believe
> we professionals prefer to spend thousands more on our equipment, just to
> show off??
> Most of us count our $$$, just like you.
> A 486, running Windows 3.1 with 8MB memory and a 50MB drive and a 5 inch
> floppy isn't going to give you the same capabilities as a PIII 750 MHz
> 128MB, 10GB disk system running ME.
> there is no free lunch.
I'm not looking for a free lunch, but apparently you're responding to my
question not to provide some friendly help, but as a way to "put me in my
place." You can patronize me all you want, but you're just spinning your
wheels -- you didn't provide any useful information in your email, so unless
your email made you feel better, all you did was waste time for both of us.
Keep in mind that you're the only one who's responded to me with an attitude
of superiority rather than friendly helpfulness. The last time you wrote, I
detected some of your attitude, but I did what I could to defuse the
situation. Apparently that didn't work.
Dave Barak
have the lab dub the tapes to a timecode DAT.
Dave
"Chris Price" <in...@ambient.de> wrote in message
news:9dbe9g$t9f$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
Rose Haupt
downside is that it will use up one of your two audio tracks.
I have in front of me the Horita PG-2100. It's a little cigaratte case size 9VDC unit that can act as master
or slave: that is, you could slave it from a time code slate for example. It has a very simple interface,
yet can be set to any time/date/user code or whatever you like. I've used it with a Tascam PA-D1 and time-code
slate, and it worked great. No problem with bleed-over, just make sure the levels are set reasonalbly.
I used it on one project only, and suppose I should sell it. $100 off Horita list price if interested. Check
the Norita site for more info.
Tim Haupt
mind...@eskimo.com
- - - - - - - - - -
In article <B71E6FBE.133E%fr...@wildtrax.de>, fr...@wildtrax.de says...
SoundDude
If you can find a place that has a SONY 7030 DAT machine (or 7040), I know they
will assemble subcode (incl. timecode) without affecting the audio track. Just
make sure you make a 1:1 safety copy beforehand, though, right? :)
-Digital is good. It ain't perfect.
-J