Bathtub Scene in "The English Patient"
Jeffrey Davis
>
> I agree with "wasavage". Not only do I think THE ENGLISH PATIENT
> vastly overrated, for folks who wanted a new David Lean flick but
> couldn't get one---but both leads were a couple of the coldest fish
> I've ever seen onscreen, and their bathtub scene was unsensual,
> unappetizing, and a turn off to me.
Unlike, say, a bathtub scene between a couple of denizens of USENET all
of whom are world renowned for physical beauty.
--
Jeffrey Davis <da...@ca.uky.edu>
Thank you, Madam, the agony is somewhat abated.
Helen & Bob
Jeffrey Davis wrote:
>
>
> Unlike, say, a bathtub scene between a couple of denizens of USENET all
> of whom are world renowned for physical beauty.
>
> --
> Jeffrey Davis <da...@ca.uky.edu>
>
Why, Yes, I am. Thanks for noticing.
Bob
> .
Jeffrey Davis
> Jeffrey Davis wrote:
>
> > Unlike, say, a bathtub scene between a couple of denizens of USENET all
> > of whom are world renowned for physical beauty.
>
The shudder heard round the world.
Helen & Bob
Jeffrey Davis wrote:
> Helen & Bob wrote:
> > Jeffrey Davis wrote:
> >
> > > Unlike, say, a bathtub scene between a couple of denizens of USENET all
> > > of whom are world renowned for physical beauty.
> >
> > Why, Yes, I am. Thanks for noticing.
>
> The shudder heard round the world.
>
> -
Chuckle chuckle chuckle.
You seen me, then, eh?
Bob
Helen & Bob
Nimrod wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:47:44 -0700, Helen & Bob
> <chil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Jeffrey Davis wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Unlike, say, a bathtub scene between a couple of denizens of USENET all
> >> of whom are world renowned for physical beauty.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeffrey Davis <da...@ca.uky.edu>
> >>
> >
> >Why, Yes, I am. Thanks for noticing.
> >Bob
> >
>
> Yes, and I was just sitting here oiling my rippling biceps
> as I scrolled through the ng.....
>
> N.
Does the oiling get the squeaks out? If so, I may try it.
Bob
The 13th Brandon
<chil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Jeffrey Davis wrote:
>
>> Helen & Bob wrote:
>> > Jeffrey Davis wrote:
>> >
>> > > Unlike, say, a bathtub scene between a couple of denizens of USENET all
>> > > of whom are world renowned for physical beauty.
>> >
>> > Why, Yes, I am. Thanks for noticing.
>>
>> The shudder heard round the world.
>>
>> -
>
>Chuckle chuckle chuckle.
>You seen me, then, eh?
>Bob
Kinda hard not to when you leave the door and window open.
--
-Brandon
"I've known about the dangers of sex for quite a while,
but having some girl shatter my skull with her tongue
wasn't one that I'd have expected."-rec.arts.movies.current-films
Mark Mays
Nimrod wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 23:54:14 -0400, Stephen Wellington
> <sd...@netcom.ca> wrote:
>
> >wasa...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >> Was anyone turned off by Kristin Scott Thomas's nude scene in "The
> >> English Patient?" It's a rather romantic scene, and watching Kristin
> >> Scott Thomas drag her scrawny body out of the tub killed it for me.
> >> I guess there things I just don't need to see, Kristin Scott Thomas
> >> nude.
> >
> >You need to get laid more. In the real world, that is.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Steve
>
> I agree with "wasavage". Not only do I think THE ENGLISH PATIENT
> vastly overrated, for folks who wanted a new David Lean flick but
> couldn't get one---but both leads were a couple of the coldest fish
> I've ever seen onscreen, and their bathtub scene was unsensual,
> unappetizing, and a turn off to me. Now, if Juliette Binoche had
> been in that tub I could have worked up some interest; she's very
> womanly and the only character I had any empathy with or interest
> in during that whole sorry epic.
>
> But Scott-Thomas has one of those skanky "model" bodies like that of a
> fourteen-year-old boy---so much so that between hers and Ralph
> Fiennes' scrawny figure, it almost looks like a homosexual love scene.
>
> (By the way, Steve, it sounds to me like YOU need to get laid more
> in the real world. In the real world most women aren't built like
> adolescent boys with no hips or breasts---and they sure don't
> look like haughty stick-figures like Kristin Scott-Thomas.)
>
> N.
Was the bathtub scene supposed to be sensual because they were naked? she
was washing his hair.
Your name belies your attitude. KST is a gorgeous woman, and unlike a
"model" she has hips. You need to quit wacking off to silicone tittied
Playboy models.
wasa...@my-deja.com
where Marge paints a portait of Mr. Burns in the buff.
-Bill
> Was the bathtub scene supposed to be sensual because they were naked?
she
> was washing his hair.
>
> Your name belies your attitude. KST is a gorgeous woman, and unlike a
> "model" she has hips. You need to quit wacking off to silicone
tittied
> Playboy models.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Jeffrey Davis
>
> I was too busy during the entire movie wishing Ralph would stand up
> for something, instead of being a wishy-washy, spineless jerk who
> would be a traitor and see thousands of lives lost in exchange for his
> own selfish desires.
>
> What a guy. Just brave enough to take the chickenshit way out and
> kill himself.
It's a continuous source of pleasure for me to see that the movie got
under people's skin this way. The characters were real enough and the
point of view of the director hand's-off enough that people react to
their situation by process of discovery. And this is the interesting
thing: they resent the characters. They resent Almasy and Katherine's
adultery as if it were someone they knew. Not only that, as if they were
someone they knew who was getting away w/ something.
Let that be a lesson to future film makers: don't do the audience's
thinking for them. Let the audience discover the characters, and the
characters will stay w/ them.
M. L. Shettle
>>> Was anyone turned off by Kristin Scott Thomas's nude scene in "The
>>> English Patient?" It's a rather romantic scene, and watching Kristin
>>> Scott Thomas drag her scrawny body out of the tub killed it for me.
>>> I guess there things I just don't need to see, Kristin Scott Thomas
>>> nude.
Could agree with you more. Although she is a lovely girl, she has the
body of a billygoat. Poor directing in my opinion. Should have left
a little to the imagination and had her in bra and panties.
Mark Mays
wasa...@my-deja.com wrote:
> When KST jumped out the tub, I was reminded of a "Simpsons" episode
> where Marge paints a portait of Mr. Burns in the buff.
>
> -Bill
>
> > Was the bathtub scene supposed to be sensual because they were naked?
> she
> > was washing his hair.
> >
> > Your name belies your attitude. KST is a gorgeous woman, and unlike a
> > "model" she has hips. You need to quit wacking off to silicone
> tittied
> > Playboy models.
> >
> >
Teeheehee! I like juvenile humor, when its funny.
Mark Mays
Nimrod wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:11:46 GMT, Mark Mays <mark...@gte.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Nimrod wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 23:54:14 -0400, Stephen Wellington
> >> <sd...@netcom.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> >wasa...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >> >> Was anyone turned off by Kristin Scott Thomas's nude scene in "The
> >> >> English Patient?" It's a rather romantic scene, and watching Kristin
> >> >> Scott Thomas drag her scrawny body out of the tub killed it for me.
> >> >> I guess there things I just don't need to see, Kristin Scott Thomas
> >> >> nude.
> >> >
> >> >You need to get laid more. In the real world, that is.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >Steve
> >>
> >> I agree with "wasavage". Not only do I think THE ENGLISH PATIENT
> >> vastly overrated, for folks who wanted a new David Lean flick but
> >> couldn't get one---but both leads were a couple of the coldest fish
> >> I've ever seen onscreen, and their bathtub scene was unsensual,
> >> unappetizing, and a turn off to me. Now, if Juliette Binoche had
> >> been in that tub I could have worked up some interest; she's very
> >> womanly and the only character I had any empathy with or interest
> >> in during that whole sorry epic.
> >>
> >> But Scott-Thomas has one of those skanky "model" bodies like that of a
> >> fourteen-year-old boy---so much so that between hers and Ralph
> >> Fiennes' scrawny figure, it almost looks like a homosexual love scene.
> >>
> >> (By the way, Steve, it sounds to me like YOU need to get laid more
> >> in the real world. In the real world most women aren't built like
> >> adolescent boys with no hips or breasts---and they sure don't
> >> look like haughty stick-figures like Kristin Scott-Thomas.)
> >>
> >> N.
> >
> >Was the bathtub scene supposed to be sensual because they were naked? she
> >was washing his hair.
> >
> >Your name belies your attitude.
>
> Which shows your ignorance of the meaning of my actual name...
Well then it is certainly ironic that the name under which you post can be
interpreted such AND then you post stuff like that to drive home the point.
>
>
> >KST is a gorgeous woman, and unlike a
> >"model" she has hips. You need to quit wacking off to silicone tittied
> >Playboy models.
>
> Sorry, they don't interest me either. You've completely missed the
> point.
>
> N.
What is it then? Enlighten me.
Josh Martin
>
> >>wasa...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >>> Was anyone turned off by Kristin Scott Thomas's nude scene in "The
> >>> English Patient?" It's a rather romantic scene, and watching Kristin
> >>> Scott Thomas drag her scrawny body out of the tub killed it for me.
> >>> I guess there things I just don't need to see, Kristin Scott Thomas
> >>> nude.
>
> body of a billygoat. Poor directing in my opinion. Should have left
> a little to the imagination and had her in bra and panties.
OK, she gets out of the bathtub in bra and panties? Are you saying that
would be BETTER direction?
Josh
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The opinions and views contained herein are my own and do not
necessarily reflect those of any intelligent person."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Mays
Nimrod wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:02:36 GMT, Mark Mays <mark...@gte.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Nimrod wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:11:46 GMT, Mark Mays <mark...@gte.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Nimrod wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 23:54:14 -0400, Stephen Wellington
> >> >> <sd...@netcom.ca> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >wasa...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >> >> >> Was anyone turned off by Kristin Scott Thomas's nude scene in "The
> >> >> >> English Patient?" It's a rather romantic scene, and watching Kristin
> >> >> >> Scott Thomas drag her scrawny body out of the tub killed it for me.
> >> >> >> I guess there things I just don't need to see, Kristin Scott Thomas
> >> >> >> nude.
> >> >> >
> Nimrod is my real name. And I'm sorry you don't know the true meaning
> of the name or its origins but I'm not going to explain it yet again
> to someone whose grasp of it is obviously limited to the last two
> decades when it's a centuries old name. Nothing personal. Honestly.
>
> But it's my name. I was given it at birth. And I like it.
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >KST is a gorgeous woman, and unlike a
> >> >"model" she has hips. You need to quit wacking off to silicone tittied
> >> >Playboy models.
> >>
> >> Sorry, they don't interest me either. You've completely missed the
> >> point.
> >>
> >> N.
> >
> >What is it then? Enlighten me.
>
> Just because you aren't fond of women's bodies that look like
> adolescent boys doesn't mean that you like silicone-injected Playboy
> model types either. You've listed two opposite extremes, neither of
> them sexually appealing to me or what most natural women look like.
> Pamela Lee Anderson is just as unattractive to me as Kate Moss.
>
> N.
Now you come of as reasonable, then why resort to terms like "skanky" and
"haughty," which smack of personal attack and animosity (perhaps against women?)
I don't recall any adolescent boys with a body like KST.
M. L. Shettle
>OK, she gets out of the bathtub in bra and panties? Are you saying that
>would be BETTER direction?
>Josh
Apparently I have to spell it out for you. She does not get out of
the bathtub, but is in bra and panties as she washes his hair.
The whole scene was not real very good was it? Just another
gratuitous nude scene that did not come over very well.
Manh Tuong Lewis Nguyen
But she was not wearing bras or panties under her dress. When Fiennes rips
her dress, she's naked. That's why she was wearing a robe while washing
his hair (unless you want her to keep her robe on while getting into the
tub).
And are you asking her to stay in the bathtub even though she's angry
at him?
I think you think nudity itself is gratuitous. The filmmakers handled it
perfectly.
Lewis.
Josh Martin
> "haughty"---when that's honestly how she appears to me? You've got a
> pretty low threshold for what remains "reasonable" to you.
>
> Sorry, but KST really does look scrawny and not very feminine to
> me---adrogynous, if anything. In fact, both KST and RF have this
> sort of asexuality that belies any real sexual heat between them.
> Watching their "love scenes" are like watching two David Bowies
> go through lusty motions with each other.
>
> And if you knew me you'd know that I love women, very real women;
> and part of the problem I have with KST is how alien (literally) she
> seems to the physique and allure of real, healthy women.
Just because KST doesn't conform to your standards of beauty doesn't
make her any less "real" or "healthy."
Josh Martin
To this guy, nudity is gratuitious if he doesn't think the woman is
attractive.
Jeffrey Davis
>Jeffrey Davis wrote:
> >Nimrod wrote:
> >>
> >> I was too busy during the entire movie wishing Ralph would stand up
> >> for something, instead of being a wishy-washy, spineless jerk who
> >> would be a traitor and see thousands of lives lost in exchange for his
> >> own selfish desires.
> >>
> >> What a guy. Just brave enough to take the chickenshit way out and
> >> kill himself.
> >
> >It's a continuous source of pleasure for me to see that the movie got
> >under people's skin this way. The characters were real enough and the
> >point of view of the director hand's-off enough that people react to
> >their situation by process of discovery. And this is the interesting
> >thing: they resent the characters. They resent Almasy and Katherine's
> >adultery as if it were someone they knew. Not only that, as if they were
> >someone they knew who was getting away w/ something.
>
> construct, like a fashion layout. Truth is, I didn't like them,
> didn't want to know them, didn't want to spend time watching them,
> and after awhile I was really hoping KST would hurry up and die in
> that frigging cave and Ralph would be summarily executed by the Nazis
> in order get this atrocious, slapdash excuse for an epic over with.
> The movie's a mess.
Methinks thou dost etc.
>
> >Let that be a lesson to future film makers: don't do the audience's
> >thinking for them. Let the audience discover the characters, and the
> >characters will stay w/ them.
>
> So, what did you think of THE ENGLISH PATIENT, Jeffrey?
It and Fly Away Home were the best movies that year.
Jeffrey Davis
The Usenet Patronizing Sigh.
Jeffrey Davis
> Jeffrey Davis wrote:
>
> >Nimrod wrote:
> >> Jeffrey Davis wrote:
> >> >Nimrod wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> So, what did you think of THE ENGLISH PATIENT, Jeffrey?
> >> >
> >> >It and Fly Away Home were the best movies that year.
> >>
> >> Sigh.....
> >
> >The Usenet Patronizing Sigh.
>
> says "I don't know what to say to that".
Maybe, "Interesting choices" or "Ridiculous" or "Not Fargo?" or etc.
Jeffrey Davis
>
> [on the inclusion of Fly Away Home in a "Best of" list]
>
> Howzabout "I still haven't seen FLY AWAY HOME, so you may be
> only half-cracked" ? ;->
I once wanted to do an article on the theme of flying men in the movies,
so I called a noted translator of Ancient Greek for the plural of
Icarus. I think he said, "Icaroi." The Right Stuff, The Ecstasy of the
Sculptor Steiner, Fly Away Home are Icaroi.
Fly Away Home finds a middle-ground: it isn't as sentimental as The
Right Stuff and or as despairing as The Sculptor Steiner, and it has
some really beautiful images. The flight over some suburban backyards,
all hemmed in by fences and such, is a stunner. The difference between
those fenced yards and animal warrens or pens, at that stage of the
movie, seems slight, and the movie's willingness to let the audience
make connections on its own is refreshing. 1996 was a very good year for
movies.
pet...@ms.com
Visually very entertaining but juxtaposed with the
two blatent cliches...the evil symbol of authority
in the game warden and the evil despoiler of nature
in the developer.
Pjk
Jeffrey Davis
The film maker's made a passing attempt to mitigate that a bit: the plea
of the farmer who needed development dollars to survive etc. That said,
the theme of the movie seems to be that we need to cooperate w/ nature
rather than to dominate it. In the original, Icarus defies nature and
crashes; in this one, Icarus co-operates and leads (like the good
gardeners we're supposed to be) and doesn't crash etc. The movie isn't a
political tract or a drama; it's an attempt at remaking a myth.
pet...@ms.com
da...@ca.uky.edu wrote:
> > Visually very entertaining but juxtaposed with the
> > two blatent cliches...the evil symbol of authority
> > in the game warden and the evil despoiler of nature
> > in the developer.
>
> The film maker's made a passing attempt to mitigate that a bit: the
plea
> of the farmer who needed development dollars to survive etc. That
said,
> the theme of the movie seems to be that we need to cooperate w/ nature
> rather than to dominate it. In the original, Icarus defies nature and
> crashes; in this one, Icarus co-operates and leads (like the good
> gardeners we're supposed to be) and doesn't crash etc. The movie isn't
a
> political tract or a drama; it's an attempt at remaking a myth.
IMO Icarus defied the Gods and not Nature and
for the Greeks the former were more important
than the latter, so, IMO, your comparison is off
with Fly Away Home. The father/son of the legend
seems just coincidental to the father/daughter of
the film. I dunno, I just don't see the recreation of
the myth once I get past the surface similarities.
Thanks
Jeffrey Davis
A fabulous sculptor who contrives wings for his child is just surface
similarity for you?
pet...@ms.com
da...@ca.uky.edu wrote:
> >
> > IMO Icarus defied the Gods and not Nature and
> > for the Greeks the former were more important
> > than the latter, so, IMO, your comparison is off
> > with Fly Away Home. The father/son of the legend
> > seems just coincidental to the father/daughter of
> > the film. I dunno, I just don't see the recreation of
> > the myth once I get past the surface similarities.
>
> A fabulous sculptor who contrives wings for his child is just surface
> similarity for you?
>
> --
Yes, that's just my point, the surface similarity.
Once you get past that you have the construction of
wings in order to escape the imprisonment of Minos
and the subsequent intoxication of flight. In the
other case you have the construction of wings in
order to help the geese, whatever you want the geese
to represent. The surface similarity is the wings
and the father/child. But there is no deeper
similarity, IMO. There is no flying too close to
the sun and subsequent death of the father and
burial by the child.
I think you have a much better argument with The
Right Stuff.
hth
Pjk
> Jeffrey Davis <da...@ca.uky.edu>
> Thank you, Madam, the agony is somewhat abated.
>
Jeffrey Davis
> da...@ca.uky.edu wrote:
> > >
> > > IMO Icarus defied the Gods and not Nature and
> > > for the Greeks the former were more important
> > > than the latter, so, IMO, your comparison is off
> > > with Fly Away Home. The father/son of the legend
> > > seems just coincidental to the father/daughter of
> > > the film. I dunno, I just don't see the recreation of
> > > the myth once I get past the surface similarities.
> >
> > A fabulous sculptor who contrives wings for his child is just surface
> > similarity for you?
>
> Once you get past that you have the construction of
> wings in order to escape the imprisonment of Minos
> and the subsequent intoxication of flight. In the
> other case you have the construction of wings in
> order to help the geese, whatever you want the geese
> to represent. The surface similarity is the wings
> and the father/child. But there is no deeper
> similarity, IMO. There is no flying too close to
> the sun and subsequent death of the father and
> burial by the child.
>
> I think you have a much better argument with The
> Right Stuff.
The Icarusness of The Right Stuff shows up as a coda at the end when
wossname takes the jet up while the boys are watching a fan dance. It's
a leit-motif. (And has fewer dot-to-dot connectedness w/ Icarus than Fly
Away Home.) The Icarusness of Fly Away Home is crux. The fact that there
is no crash in Fly Away Home is the point: the young girl doesn't defy,
she co-operates. I'm not sure what we're arguing here. I see the Icarus
myth re-imagined there and have sketched its outlines and its rationale.
Say, for instance, that the connection is a surprise to the author and
director. The outline and meaning are still there. There are simply now
two Fly Away Homes: theirs and mine. Anyone who enjoys seeing archaic
matter in new form can enjoy mine, although they'll still have to pay
the current copyright holder of the other one.
--