TV Land Therapy
steve
watch endless news footage and bleak commentary. So what makes me feel
better?
Watching old programs from a more innocent age. Leave it to Beaver, Andy
Griffith, Dick Van Dike...
It's nice to think of lifes problems being no more complex than a bad report
card or misunderstanding between Barney and Thelma Lou.
steve
--
"It aint me, man, it's the system."
Charles Manson
Nimrod``
I recently just got around to seeing RONIN...and really enjoyed it;
finding the more sedate De Niro exceptionally suited to this newer
incarnation of the Cold War thriller. I'm also a big fan of the
George Smiley excursions with Alec Guinness....TINKER TAILOR SOLDIER
SPY and SMILEY'S PEOPLE.
What other, more recent films do you think are excellent or very good
in this vein, with more intrigue than our non-stop bulletfests of the
last two decades?
N``
Alan Pollock
As far as TV series go, The Sandbaggers of 20+ years ago is one of the best.
Some eps are available on DVD starting this month. Nex
--
Jay
I saw it a long time ago but i didn't get the ending. Could someone please
explain the end scene. Was De Niro a CIA operative all along? and the what's
briefcase all about?
--
----------------------------------------
Won't be known,
'Till I'm gone,
And you study my bones
----------------------------------------
"Alan Pollock" <ne...@king.cts.com> wrote in message
news:3ba2225b$0$3580$e2e...@nntp.cts.com...
David
>Watching old programs from a more innocent age. Leave it to Beaver, Andy
>Griffith, Dick Van Dike...
I was watching "Beaver" the other night, too, & that wonderful, stupid
little neighborhood looked more bizarre to me at this point than the
Emerald City.
Long live the Beaver -- even if it's in the
Nostalgia-For-A-Time/Place-That-Never-Was region of our brains.
steve
On 14-Sep-2001, dobe...@socal.rr.com (David) wrote:
> Long live the Beaver
"Gee, Dad, just because the Beaver's acting like a dope, that's no reason to
treat him like a goof." Wally Cleaver
"Ward, I think you were a little rough on the beaver last night." June
Cleaver (well, she might have said it).
Juan F Lara
Watching the opening credits to "Barney Miller" is never going to be the
same.
- Juan F. Lara
http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~jfl/intro.html
John Harkness
Of course, The Sandbaggers is really the best show ever made about
office politics.
John Harkness
John Harkness
wrote:
>About Ronin.
>I saw it a long time ago but i didn't get the ending. Could someone please
>explain the end scene. Was De Niro a CIA operative all along? and the what's
>briefcase all about?
>
Yes. And the briefcase contains a very expensive McGuffin. Or the
script for Pulp Fiction.
John Harkness
joe fucillo
out Frankenheimer's Year of the Gun.And of course the grandaddy of them all,
The Day of the Jackal.Another excellent Alec Guinness spy film is Our Man in
Havana, but it's not exactly recent.I love this genre and wish there were
more films to recommend.
Nimrod`` wrote in message ...
steve
Not that it's important, but why was this thread basically hijacked? Just a
slip of the mouse?
steve
On 14-Sep-2001, "steve" <st...@steve.com> wrote:
> Not that it's important, but why was this thread basically hijacked?
Oops...bad choice of words. Sorry.
Bombsight
Me too. Ronin is a terrific, enjoyable film. Underrated too. I love the way De
Niro dresses down Sean Bean's character as a know-nothing. Crossfire? You'll
kill each other, asshole.
Recent good DVD spy thrillers- Funeral in Berlin and Tailor of Panama. Funeral
has not been available in widescreen for a long time (if ever). Good companion
flick to The Ipcress File. Tailor is full of great quotes. "Panama is like
Casablanca, without the heroes." According to Boorman, he demanded that it be
shot on location. Rent these and enjoy a great weekend. Darned if we don't
deserve one.
Anyone (Norm?) know when The Spy Who Came in From the Cold hits the streets on
DVD?
Nimrod``
>Hi Nim,
>
>Not that it's important, but why was this thread basically hijacked? Just a
>slip of the mouse?
>
>steve
Hijacked? In what way? I started the thread from scratch to ask a
simple question.
(scratching me head over here...)
N``
Nimrod``
wrote:
>>joe fucillo" <joe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I'm also a big fan of Ronin.If you enjoy European political thrillers, check
>>out Frankenheimer's Year of the Gun.And of course the grandaddy of them all,
>>The Day of the Jackal.Another excellent Alec Guinness spy film is Our Man in
>>Havana, but it's not exactly recent.I love this genre and wish there were
>>more films to recommend.
>>
>>Nimrod`` wrote in message ...
>>>
>>>I recently just got around to seeing RONIN...and really enjoyed it;
>>>finding the more sedate De Niro exceptionally suited to this newer
>>>incarnation of the Cold War thriller. I'm also a big fan of the
>>>George Smiley excursions with Alec Guinness....TINKER TAILOR SOLDIER
>>>SPY and SMILEY'S PEOPLE.
>>>
>>>What other, more recent films do you think are excellent or very good
>>>in this vein, with more intrigue than our non-stop bulletfests of the
>>>last two decades?
>>>
>
>Me too. Ronin is a terrific, enjoyable film. Underrated too. I love the way De
>Niro dresses down Sean Bean's character as a know-nothing. Crossfire? You'll
>kill each other, asshole.
>
Yep, that was excellent. And I loved it when he told Jean Reno to
stick close one of the other team's guys in the first
encounter...beause they'd be afraid of accidently shooting one of
their own. De Niro's increasingly hangdog demeanor in recent years
really works for the film and that genre in general.
>Recent good DVD spy thrillers- Funeral in Berlin and Tailor of Panama. Funeral
>has not been available in widescreen for a long time (if ever). Good companion
>flick to The Ipcress File. Tailor is full of great quotes. "Panama is like
>Casablanca, without the heroes." According to Boorman, he demanded that it be
>shot on location. Rent these and enjoy a great weekend. Darned if we don't
>deserve one.
>
>Anyone (Norm?) know when The Spy Who Came in From the Cold hits the streets on
>DVD?
>
Sigh...seems like I've seen most all of those, except for TAILOR OF
PANAMA. Very familiar with the Harry Palmers, FUNERAL and IPCRESS,
and SPY WHO CAME IN FROM THE COLD.
Still searching...
N``
Gloria S. Chase
Manchurian Candidate, Seven Days in May, The Train, and French
Connection II.
The Spy Who Came In From The Cold isn't by JF or recent, but it's great
and bleak as all hell.
Has anyone seen those Frankenheimer flicks from the 80's with Roy
Scheider (eg 52 Pickup, The Fourth War) or any other recent stuff like
Reindeer Games?
Brian
PSmith9626
The 1950's were not a more innocent age.
TV was pablum for people terrorized by the
Macarthy witchhunts, Racial strife, threats of atomic war, Korean War, Stalin,
Polio epidemics, school violence, Juvenile gang wars, Heroin pushers, Mau Mau
autrocities, etc.
And, anyone over 15 had just recovered from a world war against the Nazi's.
My parents were still reeling from the great depression as well.
Those TV shows were intended as tranquilizers.
best
penny
Art Linkletter on "people are funny" interviewing a six year old, asked him
what he wanted to be when he grew up. The childs response: "Alive."
>Watching old programs from a more innocent age. Leave it to Beaver, Andy
>>Griffith, Dick Van Dike...
Growing up in the slums of the Bronx, I always felt that "Leave it to Beaver"
was
filmed on the planet mars or in the twilight zone. Andy Griffith was simply
unwatchable for a NYC kid--the people on it were lobotomized.
Dick van Dyke was funny.
>& that wonderful, stupid
>little neighborhood looked more bizarre to me at this point than the
>Emerald City.
Didn't Dick and Jane live there too?
James L. Neibaur
growing up in a small midwestern town. The only difference is that on Beaver,
there is no mention of Elvis, the twist, etc. Adults were writing the shows,
so they had no idea about the evil music from the period. (just like today's
shows for teens are written by people our age, and thus are filled with songs
from our time).
Penny is certainly correct in stating that it was the television of the fifties
that featured innocence, not the actual era itself. Real life was rather scary
then too.
Andy Griffith, The Honeymooners, Dick Van Dyke, Bilko, et.al., are still fun to
watch because of the real talent that allowed them to be so timeless.
Leave it to Beaver is an amusing, surreal throwback to a life that has long
since passed me by.
JN
Please visit the most poorly designed web pages online:
my Favorite Movies web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/movies.html
and my Favorite Performers web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/rant.html
steve
On 15-Sep-2001, Nimrod`` <nim...@go-c.com> wrote:
> Hijacked? In what way? I started the thread from scratch to ask a
> simple question.
>
> (scratching me head over here...)
In my news browser you thread comes up as a response to my "TV Land Therapy"
thread. Could it just be a browser bug?
Alan Pollock
That too yes, but not only that.
Sandbaggers was also about attitude, perception, morality plays, strategy,
sleuthing and more. One of its most attractive attributes was its ability to
generate irresistible trains of thought in the viewer, from strategy both
micro and macro, to intricate plot-twisted puzzling, the morality of specific
actions, even general musings. Office politics bound everything together of
course.
Sandbaggers was a well-rounded show. One of the best ever in my book. Nex
Nimrod``
>
>On 15-Sep-2001, Nimrod`` <nim...@go-c.com> wrote:
>
>> Hijacked? In what way? I started the thread from scratch to ask a
>> simple question.
>>
>> (scratching me head over here...)
>
>In my news browser you thread comes up as a response to my "TV Land Therapy"
>thread. Could it just be a browser bug?
>
>steve
Yes, Steve...I think it must be a browser bug. It doesn't show up
like that here at all. I'm using the full-version of Agent. What
reader are you using?
N``
Fight Racism
1.Church is "two bodies, one Black, one white- separate and divided.
2.Sudras (Untouchables Hindus)
The holocaust was sponsored by "Christians".
American slavery was "justified" by "Christians".
Please visit:
Sudras (Untouchables Hindus) Holocaust Museum
http://www.dalitstan.org/holocaust/
Fight White Power
Fight Brahmin Hindu Power
Fight Imperialism
Fight Racism
PSmith9626
Interesting.
>Leave it to Beaver was frighteningly close to real life when I was a kid
>growing up in a small midwestern town.
When I lived in texas in the middle 1980's I met a man who liked the Andy
Griffith--He was a small town kid. I also discovered that they sold "Grit".
Does anyone recall the newspaper "Grit" which advertised on the back cover of
Archie comics? They gave your prizes for selling subscriptions.
I had never seen it until I lived in texas.
>The Honeymooners,
This was a show about an abusive husband ( originally had the working title of
" The Beast".).
It was too close to my lower class and scary family and new york slum life for
comfort. It was more scary than funny.
( I enjoyed the toned down kid's versions
called " The Jetsons" and " Fred Flintstone" better.)
>Bilko, et.al., are still fun to
>watch because of the real talent that allowed them to be so timeless.
Yes, Phil Silvers and Van Dyke had gobs of talent. But, Griffith appeared to
have had a lobotomy. I did find Aunt Bee amusing because the same actress did
the same role in " The Day the Earth Stood Still"
( Obligatory old movie ref).
I can't resist this:
" Aunt Bee, you look so Butch."
" We can talk about hormones later...."
---Meet the Applebees.
>Leave it to Beaver is an amusing, surreal throwback to a life that has long
>since passed me by.
Cool. I sometimes feel that way about
" The Adams Family", but that is another story.
>(just like today's
>shows for teens are written by people our age, and thus are filled with songs
>from our time).
Is this true? It is certainly true for teen movies. Kind of silly, thanks for
pointing it out.
best
penny
Nimrod``
>But, Griffith appeared to have had a lobotomy.
Don Knotts is one of the greatest comic actors to ever work in the
medium; and Barney Fife was his finest hour. His work with Andy
Griffith, and their rhythms together, are priceless.
N``
James L. Neibaur
>This was a show about an abusive husband
No it was not. Alice was always in control, and Ralph was merely a noisy
dreamer who was unfailingly faithful and loving towards his wife. If
anything, it was an absolute celebration of the woman's role in the household
being one of equal leadership. It is the greatest example of working class
marriages in the history of television.
James L. Neibaur
>medium; and Barney Fife was his finest hour.
He is finally being recognized as such. When we list the great men of vintage
television comedy, we remember Van Dyke, Gleason, Silvers, Caesar, et. al., but
foolishly forget Knotts, who is every bit as important. Barney Fife is indeed
one of the greatest characters in television history.
Nimrod``
wrote:
>>Don Knotts is one of the greatest comic actors to ever work in the
>>medium; and Barney Fife was his finest hour.
>
>He is finally being recognized as such. When we list the great men of vintage
>television comedy, we remember Van Dyke, Gleason, Silvers, Caesar, et. al., but
>foolishly forget Knotts, who is every bit as important. Barney Fife is indeed
>one of the greatest characters in television history.
>
>JN
>
And he deservedly five Emmys for the role....a record at the time.
When I need cheering up, all I have to do is watch Don Knotts go
through his permutations as Barney to get me laughing and feeling
better about the world in general. I love him.
N``
Steve Oldham
wrote:
>>Don Knotts is one of the greatest comic actors to ever work in the
>>medium; and Barney Fife was his finest hour.
>
>He is finally being recognized as such. When we list the great men of vintage
>television comedy, we remember Van Dyke, Gleason, Silvers, Caesar, et. al., but
>foolishly forget Knotts, who is every bit as important. Barney Fife is indeed
>one of the greatest characters in television history.
>
>JN
>
I'm a big fan of all his 60s work. Maybe I'm just a sucker for the
pathos that he brings to his roles. He was in movies that faltered
quickly when he wasn't on the screen but his scenes nearly always pay
off for me.
If I had to pick one favorite Knotts scene it might be the drunken bit
in 'Shakiest Gun In The West' after the town has discovered that he's
a fraud. His commiseration with an equally soused over-the-hill saloon
girl is priceless.
Steve
buck
says...
The bullet in the shirt pocket is a priceless, and wonderful piece of
writing. And NOBODY could ever fumble it like Don Knots.
--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
larryl...@worldnet.att.dotnet
remove the dot
buck
jimn...@aol.combatant says...
If anybody but me remembers his "Man In The Street bit" that he did on
the Steve Allen Show along with Tom Poston and Louie Nye, the you
remember the birth of the "Nervous Nelly" that eventualy became Barney
Fife
--
The thing wrong with doing nothing is that you cant tell when you are
done
buck
jimn...@aol.combatant says...
JN I must say I agree whole-heartedly...
My Dad was a bus driver/Trolly conductor for many years in Boston, and
was very much the in the mold of Ralf Kramden (Big mouth, lotsa'
shoutin' and a BIG BELLY, but never a blow struck against family) He
ALLWAYS watched the Honeymooners segment of the Gleason Show and would
laugh himself sick at Ed Norton.
--
David
>If anybody but me remembers his "Man In The Street bit" that he did on
>the Steve Allen Show along with Tom Poston and Louie Nye, the you
>remember the birth of the "Nervous Nelly" that eventualy became Barney
>Fife
Sorry to veer, but Tom Poston recently married Suzanne Pleshette.
tc
According to your article headers, you apparently started a new thread
from a followup to his message. Some newreaders (like his and mine) will
not recognize this as a new thread, even if the subject header has been
changed.
PSmith9626
Yes. FIFE was funny.
best
penny
IF one likes one dimensional stereotypes.
But griffith was lobotomized.
The show was pitched for country kids. For a city kid, it seemed to be about as
interesting as watching grass grow. It was so slow and nothing ever happened.
The people spoke so slowly too.
Oppie was cute!
PSmith9626
Gleason himself said that he portrayed a monster on that show.
I came from a lower class verbally abusive family and I found the show quite
upsetting as a child.
The verbal abuse his character gives alice would be enough to send most
women to a shelter.
best
penny
>If
>> anything, it was an absolute celebration of the woman's role in the
>household
>> being one of equal leadership. It is the greatest example of working class
>> marriages in the history of television.
Baloney. Count up the verbal abuse he gives alice.
>(Big mouth, lotsa'
>shoutin' and a BIG BELLY, but never a blow struck against family) He
I don't know your family, but the tv show is full of verbal and emotional
abuse. You don't have to beat a woman up physically to shatter her soul. Try a
websearch on verbal abuse.
Moreover, Gleason himself called his character:" A monster".
PSmith9626
In fact, the working title for the show was
" THE BEAST".
best
penny
>This was a show about an abusive husband
>>
>> No it was not. Alice was always in control, and Ralph was merely a noisy
>> dreamer who was unfailingly faithful and loving towards his wife.
Not exactly.
James L. Neibaur
Knotts' characterization can hardly be so easily dismissed as that. If you
want one-dimensional stereotypes, tune in to a Mad About You rerun.
>But griffith was lobotomized.
The relaxed pace added to the presentation of small town life
>The show was pitched for country kids. For a city kid, it seemed to be about
as
>interesting as watching grass grow. It was so slow and nothing ever happened.
>The people spoke so slowly too.
I certainly don't believe that The Andy Griffith Show would have withstood the
test of time if its audience was limited to rural viewers. I did not grow up
in the NY slums, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying Angels With Dirty
Faces.
James L. Neibaur
>women to a shelter.
I can' t think of one instance where Alice was verbally abused on The
Honeymooners.
I can name you many, many times where Ralph was verbally abused by Alice. And
it was always funny.
Alice was much stronger, emotionally, than Ralph. It would take the absolute
weakest, most insecure person in the world to need shelter from someone as
completely harmless as Ralph Kramden. That is like saying George Jefferson
should have inspired The Burning Bed.
The Honeymooners is perhaps the greatest sitcom ever made for television.
Nimrod``
But I did not start this thread from a followup to his message. Quite
the contrary. I started it completely fresh on my newsreader.
In fact, I didn't even start reading the "TV Land Therapy" thread
until yesterday....after I posted "RONIN and newer spy thrillers".
That's why I started commenting in the "TV Land" thread yesterday;
because I had just started reading it.
Go figure.
N``
Nimrod``
With all due respect, your response tells me more about you than it
does anything else; THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW can be a problem for folks
who have trouble slowing down and really listening.....letting go,
hearing that which whispers to them in life and the world around them.
In other words: nature. In other words: the real world.
They spawn the kind who bring boom boxes and satellite dishes to state
parks.
I'm sure most of these types also wouldn't like the great Ealing
comedies from England....or a wonderful film like LOCAL HERO; because,
to their jittery psyches those films were "so slow and nothing ever
happened". I wonder if it ever occurs to them that the people in
these films are not speaking "so slowly"...that the real problem is
that they have been desensitized by a whole lot of people around them
that talk too fast.
Actually, a great deal happened in THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW....but it
wasn't in your face and screaming at you. Its rhythms were more
subtle and nuanced. It was gentle rather than abusive; it spoke to
the soul and the heart rather than the numbed-down mind.
And your first, most obvious lack of understanding is the notion that
THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW was pitched for kids. It was not. It was
never sold as a kid show and the vast demographics of the show ranged
from younger folk to adults to old folks. When I was growing up (in
both city and country), I saw more people watching it in the city, and
without a doubt....more adults were watching it than kids, though kids
enjoyed it too.
Your second most obvious lack of understanding is the notion that the
show was pitched for those in the country. It was not. First of all,
Mayberry was a small town....not a farm in the country. Secondly, a
viewership of only country folks (muchless only country "kids") could
never have given the show the extremely high ratings that sustained it
for eight years.
Andy Griffith's appeal....in THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW and his entire
highly successful career...has always reached way beyond the rural or
small town folk and right into the heart of the cities. His first
successes were in New York, where his folksy soliloquies charmed many
New Yorkers (including Sheldon Leonard and Danny Thomas); where he
appeared on Steve Allen and Ed Sullivan, and was nominated for a
Tony-award on Broadway in NO TIME FOR SERGEANTS. This led directly to
THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW, which was built around his persona.
There has even been documentation to the effect that the popularity of
Andy and Barney was rooted largely in urban areas amongst folks
longing for a simpler, more human existence.
N``
steve
On 16-Sep-2001, psmit...@aol.com (PSmith9626) wrote:
> The verbal abuse his character gives alice would be enough to send most
> women to a shelter.
> best
> penny
Oh brother. Did you ever notice the big windbag NEVER followed through on
any of his oh so credible threats? Should Alice have been truly afraid she
would end up on the moon? It was just his overblown character, not abuse.
And, incidentally, Alice could take it and had great comeback lines, many
about his weight. Should we consider her an insensitive politically
incorrect bitch?
Or maybe it was all just a good laugh.
David
wrote:
>I can' t think of one instance where Alice was verbally abused on The
>Honeymooners.
I'll have to be careful not to shout "you're a riot--a regular riot"
at anyone any more.
>I can name you many, many times where Ralph was verbally abused by Alice. And
>it was always funny.
The victim mindset permeating culture the past 10 or 15 yrs dictates
that if the words themselves can in any context be construed as abuse,
then they are abusive in *all* contexts --- which is just silly &
betrays a complete ignorance of the ways in which language functions.
We've been hearing for years that "The Honeymooners" central motif --
Ralph proclaims his idea; Alice calls the idea asinine; Ralph yells at
Alice; Alice yells back; Ralph threatens Alice with a trip to the
moon; Alice tells Ralph to go screw himself (in so many words) -- is a
parable of the abused wife who cannot or will not escape her
situation. It's a fringe strain of current feminism that has gone
wacko.
Those who approach a sitcom like TH with an agenda like that deserve
Barney -- only they'd probably see him as a phallic symbol of the
hegemonic man-as-beast.
Trudi Marrapodi
> I've had trouble dealing with the magnitude of the event. Cant bear to
> watch endless news footage and bleak commentary. So what makes me feel
> better?
>
> Watching old programs from a more innocent age. Leave it to Beaver, Andy
> Griffith, Dick Van Dike...
>
> It's nice to think of lifes problems being no more complex than a bad report
> card or misunderstanding between Barney and Thelma Lou.
>
> steve
I'm glad it serves as an escape for you. Me, I can't watch that stuff. I
feel as if I'm watching relics from the long-ago past. It's as if I were
watching sitcoms set in Germany during the 1920s, with Jewish families in
them. All I can think is, "Little do any of you know how trivial and
irrelevant everything you were worried about has become."
Trudi
Nimrod``
It is anything but trivial and irrelevant. It is the real stuff of
most day to day lives....just as much today as then.
To follow your line of thinking....the only worthy subjects that would
engage you are heavyweight presentations on matters like The Bomb, the
existence of God, child abuse, international terrorism, civil rights,
pollution, Amnesty International, ritual female mutilation in Third
World countries and ritual male mutilation in the U.S. of A.
No thank you.
Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff.
Rule 2: It's all small stuff.
I would suggest James Joyce's THE DEAD for your assigned reading
materials....
N``
wes wildcat
"James L. Neibaur" wrote:
>
> >Don Knotts is one of the greatest comic actors to ever work in the
> >medium; and Barney Fife was his finest hour.
>
> He is finally being recognized as such. When we list the great men of vintage
> television comedy, we remember Van Dyke, Gleason, Silvers, Caesar, et. al., but
> foolishly forget Knotts, who is every bit as important. Barney Fife is indeed
> one of the greatest characters in television history.
>
> JN
Don't forget the other second bananas like Art Carney, William Frawley,
ken Osmond and some of the other Mayberry residents like Hal Smith and
Howard Morris.
James L. Neibaur
I'm glad it serves as an escape for you. Me, I can't watch that stuff. I
feel as if I'm watching relics from the long-ago past. It's as if I were
watching sitcoms set in Germany during the 1920s, with Jewish families in
them.
-----
I hope that is the only time I ever see Leave It To Beaver compared to
pre-holocaust German Jews.
James L. Neibaur
>I would suggest James Joyce's THE DEAD for your assigned reading
>materials....
Sounds more to me like she could use some Thurber --- or some Mad Magazine.
Nimrod``
wrote:
>Nim stated:
>
>>I would suggest James Joyce's THE DEAD for your assigned reading
>>materials....
>
>Sounds more to me like she could use some Thurber --- or some Mad Magazine.
>
>JN
>
I know what you mean, Jim....but I'm referring to what fleeting specks
we are in the the grand scheme of things.
N``
PSmith9626
Try: " I"ll send you to the moon, alice." with threatening tone and raised
fist.
best
penny
>I can' t think of one instance where Alice was verbally abused on The
>Honeymooners.
>The Honeymooners is perhaps the greatest sitcom ever made for television.
Pure garbage, IMHO. But, diverse opinion is fine.
PSmith9626
Live in a small town like Mayberry. Frankly, I would rather be dead.
best
penny
>THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW can be a problem for folks
>who have trouble slowing down and really listening.....letting go,
>hearing that which whispers to th
The Andy G. Show was moronic.
And no matter what you say, it is still moronic.
>When I was growing up (in
>both city and country),
Yup, you are a country kid.
Nobody who I ever met while growing up in New York city could stand that show.
> I saw more people watching it in the city, a
What city? Certainly not a big eastern sophisticated one. And certainly not the
native city dwellers.
> His first
>successes were in New York, where his folksy soliloquies charmed many
But not the mindless tv show.
>as nominated for a
>Tony-award on Broadway in NO TIME FOR SERGEANTS.
Sure, He was portrayed as a clueless country bumpkin. New yorkers love to laugh
at that. But on the show he was portrayed as smart but boring small town
man. The show moved at the speed of a glacier.
>There has even been documentation to the effect that the popularity of
>Andy and Barney was rooted largely in urban areas amongst folks
>longing for a simpler, more human existence.
Prove it. I never met a native new yorker who watched it.
Jeffrey Davis
PSmith9626 wrote:
Poor New Yorkers. I grew up in two fairly large cities (Cleveland and Louisville)
and loved it. I think it's, with Seinfeld, the 2nd best comedy show ever on network
tv. (The Simpsons is easily the best).
Nimrod``
>dear nimrod,
>Live in a small town like Mayberry. Frankly, I would rather be dead.
> best
> penny
Ah...so there lies your bias. I'm sure they relish your presence
there as well.
(And it sounds to me like you've already gotten your wish.)
>
>>THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW can be a problem for folks
>>who have trouble slowing down and really listening.....letting go,
>>hearing that which whispers to th
>
>The Andy G. Show was moronic.
>And no matter what you say, it is still moronic.
And no matter what you say...it is not moronic. Only your snotty,
monolithic assessment is moronic.
>
>>When I was growing up (in
>>both city and country),
>
>Yup, you are a country kid.
>Nobody who I ever met while growing up in New York city could stand that show.
And New York City is the only city in the fucking world? I actually
spent more years in the city than the country (five to one), moved
around a lot, including time spent in Dallas, Houston, Wichita,
Savannah, and Oklahoma City. I just spent the better part of the last
two decades in L.A within the film/tv industry....where I knew quite a
few ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW fans.
>
>
>> I saw more people watching it in the city, a
>
>What city? Certainly not a big eastern sophisticated one. And certainly not the
>native city dwellers.
Ah....there lies your moronic, monolithic bias again.
Eastern = sophisticated.
Guess what...it doesn't. Out East is just as inbred and harbors the
worst racism I've ever witnessed in this country. During my time in
Boston, I heard unsophisticated, neanderthal racism behind closed that
outpaced anything I was ever exposed to in the deepest South in
regards to frighteningly dumbass rhetoric.
Randy Newman's song "Rednecks" pretty well spells out the case on that
score.
>
>> His first
>>successes were in New York, where his folksy soliloquies charmed many
>
>But not the mindless tv show.
>
Look, it's an idiotic stance you're taking here....you refuse to even
address the fact that the ratings and demographics for that show were
known to extend far into the cities, else it wouldn't have stayed on
the air.
The only thing mindless here is your mindless refusal to deal with the
fact that you already proved you don't understand the show in the
least when you said it was pitched to "country kids". That's an
incredibly misguided and unsophisticated understanding of the program.
You called it a "kids" show, which it never was and was not created to
be, proven by its demographics, by the stated aims of its creators,
and the number of scenes which dealt with aspects and nuances of small
town life which would never even be in there if it had been aimed at
kids....things like Andy and Barney singing "Church In The Wildwood"
in soft front-porch harmony on a quiet evening.
Furthermore, you claim it was pitched specifically to "country kids"
when that tiny demographic wouldn't have been worth a warm bucket of
spit to television sponsors, nor could a rural audience, muchless
rural kids, have sustained it at its high place in the ratings for all
those years.
>>as nominated for a
>>Tony-award on Broadway in NO TIME FOR SERGEANTS.
>
>Sure, He was portrayed as a clueless country bumpkin. New yorkers love to laugh
>at that. But on the show he was portrayed as smart but boring small town
>man. The show moved at the speed of a glacier.
If you're hyperactive...mebbe. Obviously lots of people, including
city people, disagreed or they wouldn't have tuned in week after week.
Also, Andy was not portrayed as a "smart but boring small town man";
that wasn't the conception of him at all in the show or by the show's
writers or producers. When you speak of how a character is
portrayed...(in contrast to your particular "perception" of a
character)...you are speaking of how the creators intended for that
character to be framed in the context of the setting. I must say you
toss around and misuse a lot of verbage in a very unsophisticated way
for someone who obviously considers themselves quite the sophisticate.
Andy Taylor was presented as wise (in contrast to "smart"),
mild-mannered and folksy....a simple man with a good sense of humor,
but not boring.
It's incredibly naive and moronic to think that the creators of a show
would portray their central character as boring. You might perceive
him as boring (which speaks more to your hangups)...but they certainly
didn't portray him that way. And the evidence that he wasn't boring
to a huge number of people is in the ratings. It's that simple.
>
>>There has even been documentation to the effect that the popularity of
>>Andy and Barney was rooted largely in urban areas amongst folks
>>longing for a simpler, more human existence.
>
>Prove it. I never met a native new yorker who watched it.
See above. I have no need to prove it to you. Over the many years of
its continued popularity since THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW went off the
air, there have been direct testimonials to that fact....and they
establish firmly that you are wrong. I'm satisfied with that
knowledge.
I suppose you think the huge number of ongoing video sales of ANDY
GRIFFITH SHOW episodes and memoribilia is to rural folks...when the
family farm is almost dead due to ag-conglomerates?
Is this the same demographic that makes A PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION
(which I'm sure would also qualify as "glacial" and bore your hyper
mentality) so popular in major cities?
The same demographic that places ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW videos alongside
PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION memoribilia in the lucrative Wireless Catalog
market? (Boy-howdy, them country kids sure do have a lot of plastic
to flash these days.)
The same demographic that lines up for hours in any metropolitan area
whenever Don Knotts or Andy Griffith plop their asses in a chair to
sign books or CDs? (Yup, it sho been a long walk to duh big titty
wif-out no shoes on, jest to git Andy to scratch on my paperback.)
If you really need proof, you might go to the trouble to check out the
rolls of the extremely large fan clubs still attached to the show
(which I'm sure you will oh-so-conveniently forego).
And for the most part, I don't give a good goddam about native New
Yorkers' opinions when it comes to art, television, or the movies at
large; they are such a disfunctional minority to the point that their
limited and insufferably biased perceptions are marginal in the grand
scheme of things.
N``
PSmith9626
The notion that Cleveland and Louisville are cities --to a new yorker( smile)
-- is even funnier than Seinfield.
Have you ever seen the New Yorker map of the United States? It shows the
northeast and WestCoast with NOTHING in the middle.
However, Chicago ( heresy) is a city.
smile
penny
>Poor New Yorkers. I grew up in two fairly large cities (Cleveland and
>Louisville)
>and loved it.
I needed that laugh. My sister's kids just returned from a two year "exile"--
as they called it -in Cleveland. They kissed the ground of Central Park when
they got back.
> I think it's, with Seinfeld, the 2nd best comedy show ever on network
>tv. (The Simpsons is easily the best
Seinfield is pretty good. The Simpsons are
ok.However, I enjoyed " Rocky and his Friends" better. " The Tick" is also
quite good. My favorite comedy was "The Adams
Family".
Can you really place the Andy Griffith show at the same level as say:
Barney Miller, or Dobie Gillis?
PSmith9626
>Ah...so there lies your bias. I'm sure they relish your presence
>there as well.
We all have bias.
>(And it sounds to me like you've already gotten your wish.)
You are so sweet.
best
penny
steve
On 16-Sep-2001, jimn...@aol.combatant (James L. Neibaur) wrote:
> Trudi stated:
>
> I'm glad it serves as an escape for you. Me, I can't watch that stuff. I
> feel as if I'm watching relics from the long-ago past. It's as if I were
> watching sitcoms set in Germany during the 1920s, with Jewish families in
> them.
> -----
>
> I hope that is the only time I ever see Leave It To Beaver compared to
> pre-holocaust German Jews.
>
> JN
Me too.
Wow, this thread really got weird. Ralph a wife abuser? Beaver and the
Nazis (sounds like a new sitcom)? Andy G. no fun for them high class city
folk?
Dont city folk have families? I saw an episode of AG the other night that
intelligently explored issues of faith and trust between father and son.
Sure it was filled with dopey Elmers, but it was touching and, yes, real.
More real, I dare say, than much of television today. Of course, I also saw
some episodes that were pretty stupid and empty (later season), but sitcoms
always go south eventually.
In any case, these shows still make me feel good.
Jeffrey Davis
PSmith9626 wrote:
> hi jeffrey,
> The notion that Cleveland and Louisville are cities --to a new yorker( smile)
> -- is even funnier than Seinfield.
> Have you ever seen the New Yorker map of the United States? It shows the
> northeast and WestCoast with NOTHING in the middle.
> However, Chicago ( heresy) is a city.
> smile
> penny
>
> >Poor New Yorkers. I grew up in two fairly large cities (Cleveland and
> >Louisville)
> >and loved it.
>
> I needed that laugh. My sister's kids just returned from a two year "exile"--
> as they called it -in Cleveland. They kissed the ground of Central Park when
> they got back.
Well, having seen both the notion that Cleveland need bow and scrape to NYC is
fatuous.
>
>
> > I think it's, with Seinfeld, the 2nd best comedy show ever on network
> >tv. (The Simpsons is easily the best
>
> Seinfield is pretty good. The Simpsons are
> ok.However, I enjoyed " Rocky and his Friends" better. " The Tick" is also
> quite good. My favorite comedy was "The Adams
> Family".
> Can you really place the Andy Griffith show at the same level as say:
> Barney Miller, or Dobie Gillis?
>
Barney Miller was wonderful. Top 10. Dobie Gillis is a non-starter. Sorry.
Nimrod``
wrote:
Is she serious? Dobie-f***ing-Gillis?
N``
Nimrod``
My pleasure, ma'am*....
N``
(*note small town pleasantry inserted)
Jeffrey Davis
PSmith9626 wrote:
>
> However, Chicago ( heresy) is a city.
Chicago is Ameria's greatest city.
igsjr
news:3BA5F191...@verizon.net...
> Barney Miller was wonderful. Top 10. Dobie Gillis is a non-starter. Sorry.
>
(looking Heavenward) "I gotta kill that boy...I just gotta..."
Ivan
--
"Gee, Dob...I'm getting all, like, misty..." -- Maynard G. Krebs (Bob
Denver), THE MANY LOVES OF DOBIE GILLIS.
James L. Neibaur
>fist.
If you actually thought this was a genuine threat of violence and that Alice
should have cowered in fear and sought shelter, then I feel terribly sorry for
you and the insurmountable emotional baggage you are currently carrying.
When Ralph stated "You kill me, Alice!" does that constitute a genuine fear of
murder?
James L. Neibaur
>> Can you really place the Andy Griffith show at the same level as say:
>> Barney Miller, or Dobie Gillis?
Gee, when Dobie's dad said "Gotta kill that boy" I think it constitutes child
abuse and should have put Dobie in a shelter!
JN
Yes, that is how silly your proclamation of Ralph Kramden sounds.
PSmith9626
Of course. But, didn't you notice my tongue in my cheek.Still that is the
attitude of most born new yorkers.
best
penny
PSmith9626
Never--the-less gleason said his show was about an abusive relationship and the
original working title was "the beast".
best
penny
>arney Miller, or Dobie Gillis?
>
>Gee, when Dobie's dad said "Gotta kill that boy" I think it constitutes child
>abuse and should have put Dobie in a shelter!
He never said it to dobie, now did he?
PSmith9626
Spoken as a true midwesterner.
To paraphrase bernard shaw:
Chicago is the best imitation of New York City that monkeys could make.
smile
penny
>Chicago is Ameria's greatest city
Now who is joking? In the same cultural and cosmopolitan class as New York
City, Boston,.Los Angeles?
Nimrod``
>dear jeffrey,
>Of course. But, didn't you notice my tongue in my cheek.Still that is the
>attitude of most born new yorkers.
> best
> penny
Like yourself...
best
nimmy
Nimrod``
No...that would require some dumbing down....
Being "cosmopolitan" is of dubious worth when it comes to what
constitutes a great city. And I knew you were full of the bloat
regarding NYC....but only the most arid sense of values could ever
envy the cultural wasteland that is L.A.....or a fossilized culture
like Boston's.
N``
Jeffrey Davis
PSmith9626 wrote:
Yes. And what's more: it's a liveable place.
And as for culture, it has the finest museum in the country in the Art
Institute of Chicago. American architecture was born there. The Chicago
Symphony is world class. The University of Chicago swamps Columbia (and I'm a
liberal). It's "regional" theater -- like Steppenwolf -- is more vital than
the war horses that appear on Broadway. Second City was the incubator for
most of todays comics.
Given the horrors of the past week, this is probably a subject for another
time.
steve
On 17-Sep-2001, Nimrod`` <nim...@go-c.com> wrote:
> Being "cosmopolitan" is of dubious worth when it comes to what
> constitutes a great city. And I knew you were full of the bloat
> regarding NYC....but only the most arid sense of values could ever
> envy the cultural wasteland that is L.A.....or a fossilized culture
> like Boston's.
I lived in Boston for two years and loved it (lost my job or I'd still be
there, probably). Different cities have different character, and Boston is
both quaint and cool. It has plenty of culture that is far from fossilized.
It is, after all, a college town. Its a great place to hear all kinds of
music, including cutting edge bands playing very original stuff. There are
great restaurants, cool clubs, excellent record/cd music stores, movie
theaters showing interesting stuff...it's all there.
Sure, it is dwarfed by NYC. Is that a bad thing? I dont think so. Bigger
is not always better.
Never been to Chicago, but lived in LA for about two
centuries..er..years..and I pronounced it culturally brain dead. No wonder
so many hollywood films are vapid and empty. People have no sense of self
or history in that place. For some people, that is liberating. I found it
just plain empty. Then there is all the waiting. Wait for dinner, line for
the movies, sit in traffic....aaarrrrggghhhh. Who called LA life in the
fast lane, anyway? It's life in no lane! You cant even get on the highway.
Nimrod``
>
>
>On 17-Sep-2001, Nimrod`` <nim...@go-c.com> wrote:
>
>> Being "cosmopolitan" is of dubious worth when it comes to what
>> constitutes a great city. And I knew you were full of the bloat
>> regarding NYC....but only the most arid sense of values could ever
>> envy the cultural wasteland that is L.A.....or a fossilized culture
>> like Boston's.
>
>I lived in Boston for two years and loved it (lost my job or I'd still be
>there, probably). Different cities have different character, and Boston is
>both quaint and cool. It has plenty of culture that is far from fossilized.
> It is, after all, a college town. Its a great place to hear all kinds of
>music, including cutting edge bands playing very original stuff. There are
>great restaurants, cool clubs, excellent record/cd music stores, movie
>theaters showing interesting stuff...it's all there.
>
>Sure, it is dwarfed by NYC. Is that a bad thing? I dont think so. Bigger
>is not always better.
Yeah....I'm probably being too hard on Boston. It is indeed a college
town and certainly funkier than many (in a good way), though I did
also run into both a staid-to-the-point-of-petrified upper-class and a
remarkably inbred neanderthal strain during my time there.
>
>Never been to Chicago, but lived in LA for about two
>centuries..er..years..and I pronounced it culturally brain dead. No wonder
>so many hollywood films are vapid and empty. People have no sense of self
>or history in that place. For some people, that is liberating. I found it
>just plain empty. Then there is all the waiting. Wait for dinner, line for
>the movies, sit in traffic....aaarrrrggghhhh. Who called LA life in the
>fast lane, anyway? It's life in no lane! You cant even get on the highway.
>
Yes, yes, and more yes. I should have left long before I did. I've
long maintained that raising a kid in Southern California
(specifically L.A.) is a form of child abuse.
N``
James L. Neibaur
the
>original working title was "the beast".
It was a classic comedy about a blowhard dreamer husband with a lot of crazy
ideas, whose intelligent, secure wife always put on the right track. To state
that The Honeymooners' character of Ralph Kramden is someone to actually fear,
and that Alice was ever in any type of genuine (or even comic) danger is the
absolute silliest thing I have ever heard (or read). Hopefully you don't have
nightmares about Fred Flintstone.
I am sorry you were terrified of your father and are still carrying so much
emotional baggage that it skews your interpretation of television sitcoms. It
is certainly far more stereotypical than any of your offensive comments about
those who live in the midwest as being "slow" and "backward." Read Sylvia
Plath's poem "Daddy" and try hard to feel better about yourself.
JN
PSmith9626
I agree that the University of Chicago is first rate. It compares to Columbia
and NYU. " Swamps Columbia"--nope.
>The University of Chicago swamps Columbia (and I'm a
>liberal).
>And as for culture, it has the finest museum in the country in the Art
>Institute of Chicago
Ha. New York has the Metropolitian, The Guggenheim, The Museum of Modern Art,
The Frick, and quite a few more. The Art institute of Chicago isn't even in the
same class as any of them. And we haven't even mentioned the hundreds of world
class galleries.
New York City has been the world center for art since the 1950's, replacing
Paris.
>The Chicago
>Symphony is world class.
Yes. So is the New York Phil. What does Chicago have to compare to the Met
Opera
, The New York Ballet ( best in the world), the Joffrey Ballet, The Julliard
School ?
> It's "regional" theater -- like Steppenwolf -- is more vital than
>the war horses that appear on Broadway.
Baloney. And we have Off Broadway which is far more creative than Broadway,
Also
Off-Off Broadway, and far more. ANd Broadway is quite vital. New York and
London are the world centers for theater.
>Second City was the incubator for
>most of todays comics.
Ever hear of the Catskills? Or the lower east side? Or new york based
television shows?
>American architecture was born there.
No. Some Germans from Bauhaus ended up there.
>Given the horrors of the past week, this is probably a subject for another
>time.
No, it's ok. New York is not one office building. It the world's financial
center, the
worlds publishing center, the home of the UN secretariate, the world's art
center, the world's dance center, etc.
( Yes, Chicago has the agcom
exchange.)
About Los Angeles. I taught at UCLA for a while. Between UCLA, Caltech, and USC
LA is a first class intellectual city. West Hollywood is a very creative
counterculture place. The amount of creative energy and talented art.music
associated with Hollywood is quite amazing.
The LA symphony is also world class.
I enjoyed my time in LA quite a lot.
I am sure I would enjoy living in Chicago too.
But New York is special. It is the only city that any cultured European
could mention in the same breath as Paris or London or even Prague.
best
penny
PSmith9626
I stand on gleason's comments about his own show.
best
penny
>It
>is certainly far more stereotypical than any of your offensive comments about
>those who live in the midwest as being "slow" and "backward."
I said:" Most 1950's new yorker's had that attitude". That happens to be true.
I don't have it anymore. I do think that people from a large cosmopolitian city
tend to be more sophisticated than people from small country villages, though
with TV and the net etc, this is less and less true.
>Read Sylvia
>Plath's poem "Daddy" and try hard to feel better about yourself.
I like that Poem. And I rather like all of Sylvia Plath.
>I am sorry you were terrified of your father and are still carrying so much
>emotional baggage that it skews your interpretation of television sitcoms.
Gleason's interpetation of his own show--in fact.
PSmith9626
We were taught that way. I was taught in NYC elementary schools that:
Skyscrapers were invented in NYC
( actually in chicago)
The UN is based in NYC
( Actually in Geneva)
Edgar Allan Poe was a New Yorker
( He did live in the Bronx for a while).
best
penny
Never--the--less:Almost anybody american who has ever done anything important
in the arts, the creative arts, literature, the sciences, etc.,
has lived for some time in NYC or nearby: Even the immigrants:
From Thomas Mann to Kipling, From Aaron Copland to Nureyev, from Fermi
to Frank Wright, to Gershwin, to Einstein
to Jackson Pollack, Henry James to Dorothy Parker to Phillip Roth, ---even
sylvia plath.
Yes, even Willa Catha, Frank Wright, Carl Sandburg, Fermi and other midwest
notables.
( Maybe not Grandma Moses).
Can chicago match that? Not hardly.
best
penny
>Like yourself...
> best
> nimmy
Yes. Born and bred. (smile)
David
>>The Chicago Symphony is world class.
>
>Yes. So is the New York Phil.
Comparing the two at their world-class best (i.e., Solti vs.
Bernstein), I would say the edge definitely goes to Solti.
David
>Never--the--less:Almost anybody american who has ever done anything important
>in the arts, the creative arts, literature, the sciences, etc.,
>has lived for some time in NYC or nearby: Even the immigrants:
>From Thomas Mann to Kipling, From Aaron Copland to Nureyev, from Fermi
>to Frank Wright, to Gershwin, to Einstein
>to Jackson Pollack, Henry James to Dorothy Parker to Phillip Roth, ---even
>sylvia plath.
And yet one of this country's most influential & beloved men of
letters, Jacques Barzun, recently up & moved from New York after 70
years to . . . San Antonio.
Nimrod``
> But New York is special. It is the only city that any cultured European
>could mention in the same breath as Paris or London or even Prague.
> best
> penny
Who cares what so-called "cultured European's" mention and don't
mention...except other supercilious types who hang on that sort of
thing.
I'll take New Orleans, Seattle, Savannah (before a goddam New Yorker
did his best to undo it), Santa Fe (ditto), or San Francisco anyday
over NYC and its ilk. Those are truly beautiful cultural cities in
the European vein.
N``
Nimrod``
>>Second City was the incubator for
>>most of todays comics.
>
>Ever hear of the Catskills? Or the lower east side? Or new york based
>television shows?
>
Uh...if you honestly think that most of todays comics are the product
of the Catskills, then you are living in a time warp. Second
City...by way of Saturday Night Live (which looted SC's ranks)....was
indeed the incubator or direct inspiration for most of today's
ill-prepared and ill-trained comics.
I don't say that proudly, but simply as a statement of fact.
Personally I consider it the downfall of all-too-many working actors
today....
>
>LA is a first class intellectual city.
Right. The town where the term "non sequitar" is a stretch in most
discussions with its psuedo-intellectuals (raised on TV pap)....then
they resent you for using such highflown terminology.
But I suppose I must consider the intellectual standard when the
proper application of the words "portrayed" or "subconscious" isn't
even grasped .
>West Hollywood is a very creative
>counterculture place.
Boy's Town? Hardly. Creative cruising mebbe....
>The amount of creative energy and talented art.music
>associated with Hollywood is quite amazing.
art.music? Is that a newsgroup? Must be, because it sure ain't
Hollywood....
>>I enjoyed my time in LA quite a lot.
Yes, I'm sure you did. Want another all-day sucker?
N``
Nimrod``
>dear nimmy,
>We were taught that way. I was taught in NYC elementary schools that:
> Skyscrapers were invented in NYC
>( actually in chicago)
>The UN is based in NYC
>( Actually in Geneva)
>Edgar Allan Poe was a New Yorker
>( He did live in the Bronx for a while).
> best
> penny
Yes, and your comments regarding The Andy Griffith Show, your equating
"big Eastern" with "sophisticated", and your disparaging remarks about
small towns, Southerners, Mid-Westerners, and country folk only prove
that you retained every bit of the snotty attitude bred into you in
NYC.
So stop your disingenuous bullshit; you weren't being tongue-in-cheek
at all...
>Never--the--less:Almost anybody american who has ever done anything important
>in the arts,
Ah ...there you go again, being the NYC diviner of what is "important
in the arts".
>
>Can chicago match that? Not hardly.
> best
> penny
>
>>Like yourself...
>> best
>> nimmy
>
>Yes. Born and bred. (smile)
And inbred....
N``
Nimrod``
>dear james,
> I stand on gleason's comments about his own show.
> best
> penny
If you were really very sophisticated or worldly, you would learn not
to digest as gospel every little nugget of media happy-talk uttered by
a producer-star about a project. There's the line of patter they spew
out about the development of a project, the crap that makes good
fodder for some journalist's consumption....then there's the finished
project. They are two different things.
Quite using that feeble crutch instead of evaluating the show on it's
own terms; it stands or falls based upon what is there on the
screen....period.
>
>>It
>>is certainly far more stereotypical than any of your offensive comments about
>>those who live in the midwest as being "slow" and "backward."
>
>I said:" Most 1950's new yorker's had that attitude". That happens to be true.
>I don't have it anymore.
Yes you do....you've made that quite clear in every comment you've
made.
N``
Tim Pierce
resist a discussion about netnews technology...
In article <KK+kOyOjBlBRlW...@4ax.com>,
Nimrod`` <nim...@go-c.com> writes:
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2001 07:26:08 +0000 (UTC), tc <t...@ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>
>>According to your article headers, you apparently started a new thread
>>from a followup to his message. Some newreaders (like his and mine) will
>>not recognize this as a new thread, even if the subject header has been
>>changed.
>
> But I did not start this thread from a followup to his message. Quite
> the contrary. I started it completely fresh on my newsreader.
I'm afraid not. The thread "RONIN and newer spy thrillers" was indeed
posted as a followup to "TV Land Therapy." It's not a browser bug.
These are the relevant headers from Nimrod's first RONIN post:
From: Nimrod`` <nim...@go-c.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies.current-films,rec.arts.movies.past-films,alt.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: RONIN and newer spy thrillers?
Message-ID: <jxeiO5fJNpFKoq0=dhDlPJ=NA...@4ax.com>
References: <9nt1ck$l48$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>
The "References" header indicates that this message was a followup
from a different posting. <9nt1ck$l48$1...@bob.news.rcn.net> was Steve's
"TV Land Therapy" post.
Now, back to movies...
James L. Neibaur
Which justifies your interpretation of a classic comedy character like Ralph
Kramden as someone you should fear. Egad!
In the current film Ghost World, Steve Buscemi's character professes an
affection for Laurel and Hardy films, whereupon his girlfriend states, "I
didn't like those -- that fat guy was always so mean to the skinny one."
It's called missing the point entirely.
Nimrod``
Well, I don't know how to explain it then...I honestly did not post as
a followup to any message in that thread or even read that thread
until later. Honest. I ain't got no stake in this one and no reason
not to fess up if it were the case...but it ain't.
I created the whole thing from scratch, even the crossposting, being
very specific about the groups.
N``
PSmith9626
You take this all far too seriously.
Relax.
best
pen
>So stop your disingenuous bullshit; you weren't being tongue-in-cheek
>at all...
Well, Tomorrow I could argue exactly the opposite. This is just a netgroup--
don't take anything here so seriously. I sure don't.
PSmith9626
I recall a young lit student telling Issac Asimov the meaning of a story he
wrote.
He disagreed and she said:" You are just the author, what would you know?"
best
penny
>If you were really very sophisticated or worldly, you would learn not
>to digest as gospel every little nugget of media happy-talk uttered by
>a producer-star about a project.
Sure, sure.
PSmith9626
It is called a different perspective.
best
penny
>I
>didn't like those -- that fat guy was always so mean to the skinny one."
>
>It's called missing the point entirely
And seeing another point. Some people find meaness funny. Some people even
enjoy movies about murder and terrorism.
Others are more sensitive.
PSmith9626
Some of us have lived in Europe. I have.
If one wants to define a great cultural city, it takes perspective.
best
penny
>I'll take New Orleans, Seattle, Savannah (before a goddam New Yorker
>did his best to undo it), Santa Fe (ditto), or San Francisco anyday
>over NYC and its ilk.
San Francisco has a good claim to being a
cosmopolitan city.
Santa Fe is arty. New Orleans is quaint
( though Tulane is a very good small university).
You are too hot under the collar so I am now off this thread.
Why not show some of that small city calm?
>Who cares what so-called "cultured European's" mention and don't
>mention...except other supercilious types who hang on that sort of
>thing.
And those of us that lived in Paris and
other great cosmopolitan european cities.
Nimrod``
>dear nim,
>You take this all far too seriously.
>Relax.
> best
> pen
Oh...I'm quite relaxed, always was. But I can see why it would seem
serious to you since you are the one being caught up in your web of
elitist dishonesty.
>
>>So stop your disingenuous bullshit; you weren't being tongue-in-cheek
>>at all...
>
>Well, Tomorrow I could argue exactly the opposite. This is just a netgroup--
>don't take anything here so seriously. I sure don't.
Me neither. Sorry if you expected your glaring snobisms to go
unobserved and without comment from the peanut gallery. It was no
great effort to detect them or point them out for what they are....I
assure you.
Fish. Barrel.
N``
Nimrod``
>dear Nim,
> I recall a young lit student telling Issac Asimov the meaning of a story he
>wrote.
>He disagreed and she said:" You are just the author, what would you know?"
> best
> penny
A shame that the difference must be pointed out to you.
Issac Asimov was the sole author......a television program or film (no
matter who the producer-star is or what that individual's initial
concept was before the development process) is a collaboration among
many which is greater than (and different from) the sum of its parts.
Any successful director or star or producer would be the first to tell
you that.
>
>>If you were really very sophisticated or worldly, you would learn not
>>to digest as gospel every little nugget of media happy-talk uttered by
>>a producer-star about a project.
>
>Sure, sure.
Sure enough.
N``
Nimrod``
>dear N,
>Some of us have lived in Europe. I have.
>If one wants to define a great cultural city, it takes perspective.
> best
> penny
>
Yes, we've seen your perspective.
>>I'll take New Orleans, Seattle, Savannah (before a goddam New Yorker
>>did his best to undo it), Santa Fe (ditto), or San Francisco anyday
>>over NYC and its ilk.
>
>San Francisco has a good claim to being a
>cosmopolitan city.
I'm sure they'll be blessed by your anointing....
> Santa Fe is arty. New Orleans is quaint
>( though Tulane is a very good small university).
Santa Fe has been ruined in latter years by a lot of New Yorkers and
L.A. types (as I pointed out).
New Orleans is untouchable, it's culture rooted so deep and dark that
even the ransacking Easterners cannot despoil it entirely, no matter
how tourist-friendly they try to make it. Your patronizing notions of
quaintness make not a ripple on the rich mysteries of New Orleans.
>
>You are too hot under the collar so I am now off this thread.
> Why not show some of that small city calm?
I'm not fuming in the least....I write this all quite calmly. I'm
always amused at how certain folks start to assume that a person is
pent up with anger just because that individual continues to shine
light through the holes in certain folks' logic.
>
>>Who cares what so-called "cultured European's" mention and don't
>>mention...except other supercilious types who hang on that sort of
>>thing.
>
>And those of us that lived in Paris and
>other great cosmopolitan european cities.
Proving that one can travel yet grow no wiser or become any less
elitist. History and the world has known the ravages of elitists
who've sullied foreign shores. But I'm sure you did your part to
bring culture to the savages.
N``
David
>>It's called missing the point entirely
>
>And seeing another point. Some people find meaness funny. Some people even
>enjoy movies about murder and terrorism.
>Others are more sensitive.
The philistines are upon us!
The booboisie have retoined!
Give me a break, penny! KING FUCKING LEAR is about "murder &
terrorism" in your view! You too sensitive for it? (that's just
another way of congratulating yourself for being above it, or so you
think)
Nimrod``
Yep...more sensitive....more intelligent....more sophisticated....more
cosmopolitan. You get the drift.
N``
Jeffrey Davis
PSmith9626 wrote:
> dear Nim,
> I recall a young lit student telling Issac Asimov the meaning of a story he
> wrote.
> He disagreed and she said:" You are just the author, what would you know?"
Absolutely. I agree with the student.
Bill Binkelman
> I recently just got around to seeing RONIN...and really enjoyed it;
> finding the more sedate De Niro exceptionally suited to this newer
> incarnation of the Cold War thriller. I'm also a big fan of the
> George Smiley excursions with Alec Guinness....TINKER TAILOR SOLDIER
> SPY and SMILEY'S PEOPLE.
>
> What other, more recent films do you think are excellent or very good
> in this vein, with more intrigue than our non-stop bulletfests of the
> last two decades?
>
Well, it's not very recent, but I think Sidney Pollack's THREE DAYS OF
THE CONDOR is a superb spy thriller with very little gratuitous
violence. It's a little dated because it played on the "oil war" time
period, but with a cast like Redford, Dunaway, Von Snydow, and Cliff
Robertson, it's a can't miss, IMO.
Speaking of those excellent Smiley productions, is there any word yet
on either a video release or at least an American TV re-broadcast? I'd
love seeing them again, especially Smiley's People.
Bill B
John Harkness
Binkelman) wrote:
>Nimrod`` <nim...@go-c.com> wrote in message news:<jxeiO5fJNpFKoq0=dhDlPJ=NA...@4ax.com>...
>> I recently just got around to seeing RONIN...and really enjoyed it;
>> finding the more sedate De Niro exceptionally suited to this newer
>> incarnation of the Cold War thriller. I'm also a big fan of the
>> George Smiley excursions with Alec Guinness....TINKER TAILOR SOLDIER
>> SPY and SMILEY'S PEOPLE.
>>
>> What other, more recent films do you think are excellent or very good
>> in this vein, with more intrigue than our non-stop bulletfests of the
>> last two decades?
>>
>
>Well, it's not very recent, but I think Sidney Pollack's THREE DAYS OF
>THE CONDOR is a superb spy thriller with very little gratuitous
>violence. It's a little dated because it played on the "oil war" time
>period, but with a cast like Redford, Dunaway, Von Snydow, and Cliff
>Robertson, it's a can't miss, IMO.
>
Max Von Snydow -- star of Bergman's more sarcastic productions.
John Harkness
"I love typos"
Tim Pierce
psmit...@aol.com (PSmith9626) writes:
>
> And those of us that lived in Paris and
> other great cosmopolitan european cities.
We are not worthy to lick the memory of your shadow!
Tim Pierce
psmit...@aol.com (PSmith9626) writes:
>>It
>>is certainly far more stereotypical than any of your offensive comments about
>>those who live in the midwest as being "slow" and "backward."
>
> I said:" Most 1950's new yorker's had that attitude". That happens to be true.
> I don't have it anymore. I do think that people from a large cosmopolitian city
> tend to be more sophisticated than people from small country villages, ...
When someone asserted that kids in "the city" watched and enjoyed "The
Andy Griffith Show," what you said was: "What city? Certainly not a
big eastern sophisticated one."
That has very specific connotations. It says that any "city" dweller
who enjoyed such hokum must have come from one of those backward
no-account cities, which apparently includes Boston, Philadelphia,
Chicago, Atlanta, San Francisco, Seattle, etc. etc.
It's exactly the sort of centrism that leads people to characterize
New York and New Yorkers as "provincial" -- and accurately so, at
that. Speaking as a native New Yorker myself, I really wish you'd put
a sock in it.
James L. Neibaur
>wrote.
>He disagreed and she said:" You are just the author, what would you know?"
Which of course would mean that Jackie Gleason created the Ralph Kramden
character as a beastly man for his audience to fear?
Jackie Gleason specialized in playing loveable characters in different guises
(The Poor Soul, et. al.). Kramden was another example. He was all noise and
not at all frightening, especially not to the secure, intelligent, strong woman
named Alice. Gleason stated in interviews many, many times that the Kramden
character was a representation of many working class people he knew, whose
outbursts were noisy, but amusing and harmless, and perfect for the centerpiece
about a marriage with unbreakable bonds.
But if he was too loud and he frightened you, I am sure he didn't mean it.
JN
"Sylvia Plath is that poet whose tragic suicide was interpreted as romantic by
the college girl mentality." --- Woody Allen
James L. Neibaur
>KING FUCKING LEAR is about "murder &
>terrorism" in your view!
Hey is that the original working title of the play?
lol
JN
steve
On 19-Sep-2001, t...@unchi.org (Tim Pierce) wrote:
> > I said:" Most 1950's new yorker's had that attitude". That happens to be
> > true.
> > I don't have it anymore. I do think that people from a large
> > cosmopolitian city
> > tend to be more sophisticated than people from small country villages,
> > ...
>
> When someone asserted that kids in "the city" watched and enjoyed "The
> Andy Griffith Show," what you said was: "What city? Certainly not a
> big eastern sophisticated one."
I'd just like to add that AG is obviously intended to appeal to the
"sophisticated city dweller" simply because the country folk are portrayed
with a nod to the country hic stereotype. Further, since one person in this
discussion obviously likes to look down her nose at anyone from out of town,
I would wonder why she doesnt get a laugh watching those dopey Elmers. It
certainly feeds her world view.
steve
--
"It aint me, man, it's the system."
Charles Manson