No Way Out -- Please explain ending (Spoiler)
jac...@my-deja.com
baffled by the ending. Did he grow up in the
U.S. or in Russia? He seemed to have had many
long-time friends. Was he a spy? Don't get it
at all. Can someone explain?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Endy
with Costner's character, thinking he was unjustly being pursued as the
Russian spy. The spy being a creation that did not exist but how do you
prove something doesn't exist and you aren't it?
In the end the twist was that the RS really did exist and Costner was it all
along.
<jac...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:886u8m$4ad$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Sean
SPOILER
>I just saw "No Way Out" with Kevin Costner and am
>baffled by the ending. Did he grow up in the
>U.S. or in Russia? He seemed to have had many
>long-time friends. Was he a spy? Don't get it
>at all. Can someone explain?
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
He was a Russian spy. IIRC he was planted as a college student, not
recruited, so he grew up in Russia. Whenever they speak about the spy
(Yuri?) during the film, it is actually Costner they are talking
about. Nobody really believes the spy exists, they think he is a
phantom created by one of the intelligence agencies to cover up
mistakes.
They used the fake spy to cover up the murder, but ended up rooting
out the real spy (Costner) by mistake. In the end he has burned his
bridges with Moscow and is wanted by the U.S., so he has nowhere to
go. Good flick.
Sean {Gyu...@hotmail.com}
no...@webtv.net
burned his bridges with Moscow. But that's not what happened.
Tom/Yuri ... at the movie's end and as at its beginning ... is in the
Russkies' safehouse ... in or near D.C. ... being debriefed.
He is quite shattered by his harrowing experiences ... especially by
Susan Atwell's death ... as well as by his own life-and-death flight
from the U.S. enforcers ...
but ... he's still alive.
And ... his control agents have heard his story ... the story we watched
as a movie ... and are now saying, "Tell it again".
Moscow may not have any further use for him ... but we don't know that.
They were pretty tricky guys ... and who knows what a next chapter might
bring.
Yuri is ... after all ... like a Soviet Tom Clancy.
Norton Shawn
no...@webtv.net
that was a mistake.
Yuri would have been the Soviet's Jack Ryan.
Tom Clancy ... of course ... wrote The Hunt for Red October ... in which
Jack Ryan was a character
Norton Shawn
Helen & Bob
"Frank R.A.J. Maloney" wrote:
> If _No Way Out_ has any interest for you, you might want to look at the
> original version, _The Big Clock_, a wonderful and much more credible film
> noir/crime story. From 1948 with Charles Laughton and Ray Milland, along with
> Elsa Lanchester stealing every scene she's in. Based on a Kenneth Fearing
> novel, directed by John Farrow.
>
>
> Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
>
I think that Elsa was the only person who could ever steal a scene from Laughton.
(and get away with it)
Bob
no...@webtv.net
look at the original version ... The Big Clock ...a wonderful and much
more credible film noir/crime story".
The "original" version? Hardly. As they are two quite separate and
distinct films with no connections whatever save for having had their
scenarios based on the same novel ... the one is not the "original" of
the other.
Were one the "original" ... the other would have to have been the
"remake" ... and a remake of any other film ... No Way Out was not. And
.. Way Out was not a crime story. Crimes merely happened in it.
Whatever happened to David Brice (Gene Hackman) in it for instance?
But ...Let's hear it for language in action.
Rah! Rah! Rah! We will not abuse English! Rah Rah! Rah! Usagers
Yes.!! Abuseagers ... Never.!! Rah! Rah! Rah!
As for "much more credible", Frank ...
your seeing is not neccessarily my believing.
Norton Shawn
no...@webtv.net
So. Moscow had no use for him after all.
Thanks, Sean.
Well ... what a callous buncha bananas those Russkies turned out to be.
No wonder that nobody liked them.
Norton Shawn
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
original version, _The Big Clock_, a wonderful and much more credible film
noir/crime story. From 1948 with Charles Laughton and Ray Milland, along with
Elsa Lanchester stealing every scene she's in. Based on a Kenneth Fearing
novel, directed by John Farrow.
One advantage among others that _The Big Clock_ has over the Costner version is
that it is much more believable that a Manhattan office tower could be locked
down and evacuated than the Pentagon.
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
http://members.aol.com/frajm/
"All over the room throats were being strained and minds broadened."
-- P. G. Wodehouse, Piccadilly Jim
Sean
the safe house when one of the Soviets reached for a gun, only to be
stopped by the other guy who says "He has nowhere to go...".
Not spelled out, but it seemed pretty clear Yuri was a man without a
country. A U.S. prison or a Soviet gulag.
Sean {Gyu...@hotmail.com}
t.cruise
>Well its been awhile, but wasn't the last shot Yuri walking away from
>the safe house when one of the Soviets reached for a gun, only to be
>stopped by the other guy who says "He has nowhere to go...".
>
>Not spelled out, but it seemed pretty clear Yuri was a man without a
>country. A U.S. prison or a Soviet gulag.
I thought that the last segment of the film was extraneous, and not
very coherent. It seemed like it had been hastily tacked on. The
film would have been better without it. The bad guys had already been
eliminated by the hero, in a satisfying action filled climax. While
the audience was feeling good, the credits should have come up.
T.C.
Richard Schultz
: My understanding was the whole point of the movie was to make you
: pursued as the Russian spy. The spy being a creation that did not
: exist but how do you prove something doesn't exist and you aren't it?
: In the end the twist was that the RS really did exist and Costner
: was it all along.
Now I realize that the movie was fundamentally stupid even without
the "surprise" ending (the kind of search of the Pentagon they do
is physically impossible, at least in the time it takes them). But
was I really the only one who figured out right at the beginning that
Costner was in fact a Soviet spy?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Sean
reversal, and not essential to the plot, but I loved it. And unlike
some other more recent pictures it didn't require the rest of the film
to have not happened in order for it to work.
I also enjoyed the juxtaposition of the amoral, but patriotic American
against the deeply deceitful yet somehow moral Soviet spy. Granted the
full effect may require a second viewing. It seems even he is
disillusioned by the 'enemies' ease of corruption. I also prefer
movies that do not end exactly as I expect or have seen countless
times before.
Sean {Gyu...@hotmail.com}
no...@webtv.net
And I watched the start and the finish.
and messed around with mr. in between.
And it's a very tricky movie.
Tom/Yuri says in the debriefing "You wanted me to make love to her and I
did".
So ... much that he'd done ... acting as a Sov.spy ... was done under
orders.
But ... he is disillusioned. Susan's death, the threats to Nina Beka
(Iman) and finally ... the murder of Sam Hesselman ... have got to him.
He may have begun KGB ... but somehow, somewhere ... his loyalties got
divided. We hear "Pushkn, Lermontov" and he names two Soviet escapee
poets in response ... and his control laughingly says something like
"you always were the cut-up".
As love has the power to rip, to sunder, falling in love had not been
part of the game plan.
But ... in the safehouse ... in the woods outside Alexandria ... he's
offered a free pass back to the homeland. "You're a Hero of the Soviet
Union", his control beams at him.
and Yuri/Tom chooses "I don't want to go back". Why ... I do not know.
Inside the house ... he's headed for the door ... the two heavies draw
their guns ... the boss says "Stop. [let him go] He'll be back. Where
else does he have to go?".
Good question.
And why doesn't he think a little more before fleeing? He'd worked so
hard to save his skin. But ... he gets into his car and drives away ...
with overtones of Soviet-style theme music playing through the credits.
It's madness. and therefore there's no logic to accept in his behavior.
But the Soviet part of the story ... the movie's end that surfaced at
its beginning ... were hardly tacked-on nor extraneous. They WERE the
story. The plot twist was that it was the story of a double life
revealed.
If Brice hadn't killed the girl, there'd never have been a Yuri to have
been searched for. Yuri having been Scott Pritchard's invention for the
cover-up.
Which leads to another question ... why was Tom ordered to get close to
the girl?
Because ... she was intimately involved with Brice ... and ... that ...
therefore ... David Brice ... the U.S. Secretary of Defense ... had been
the KGB's target.
Norton Shawn
Richard Schultz
: Inside the house ... he's headed for the door ... the two heavies draw
: their guns ... the boss says "Stop. [let him go] He'll be back. Where
: else does he have to go?".
: Good question.
I have a better question. How could the Soviets possibly have known
that the random teenager they placed in the U.S. (with enough
background to survive a security check) would happen to perform an
act of heroism that would put him in the right position to have an
affair with the mistress of the Secretary of Defense and then discredit
him so that the U.S. would invest in a useless submarine? Wouldn't
it have been much more straightforward for them to have done what
they actually did do during the cold war, namely, have a Soviet agent
seduce the Secretary of Defense and then blackmail him? (Not that
that always worked either -- as the famous story about Sukarno proved.)
Or, as one critic put it at the time, "any movie where the CIA are
the good guys has a serious problem."
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad."
Mark and Elaine Taylor
bar? He ordered "Stoli, neat." I've never known anyone but a Russian to
drink that. I took it to be a subtle clue as to his true identity.
Elaine
no...@webtv.net wrote:
> Fortunately ... I have a copy.
>
> And I watched the start and the finish.
>
> and messed around with mr. in between.
>
> And it's a very tricky movie.
>
> Tom/Yuri says in the debriefing "You wanted me to make love to her and I
> did".
>
> So ... much that he'd done ... acting as a Sov.spy ... was done under
> orders.
>
> But ... he is disillusioned. Susan's death, the threats to Nina Beka
> (Iman) and finally ... the murder of Sam Hesselman ... have got to him.
>
> He may have begun KGB ... but somehow, somewhere ... his loyalties got
> divided. We hear "Pushkn, Lermontov" and he names two Soviet escapee
> poets in response ... and his control laughingly says something like
> "you always were the cut-up".
>
> As love has the power to rip, to sunder, falling in love had not been
> part of the game plan.
>
> But ... in the safehouse ... in the woods outside Alexandria ... he's
> offered a free pass back to the homeland. "You're a Hero of the Soviet
> Union", his control beams at him.
>
> and Yuri/Tom chooses "I don't want to go back". Why ... I do not know.
>
> Inside the house ... he's headed for the door ... the two heavies draw
> their guns ... the boss says "Stop. [let him go] He'll be back. Where
> else does he have to go?".
>
> Good question.
>
no...@webtv.net
commented: "I've never known anyone but a Russian to drink that".
At home, we always keep our vodka in the freezer. Always have. When a
libation is needed it is always at the perfect temperature to pour and
imbibe. Neat.
Hasn't vodka for some time been the best-selling liquor in America?
It's so flexible in its uses. I know that "Stoli, neat" ... but
icy-cold ... is the best-selling high-priced bar drink in the SF Bay
area.
Smirnoff is cheaper.
However ... if neatness doesn't count ... vodka in tomato or orange
juice are certainly potable ... and classic mixes by now ... I'm sure.
Prosit.!! Cheers.!! Bottoms up.!! Skoal.!!
L'chaim.!! To Your Health.!! Kampei.!!
Happy Your Valentine's Day, today.!!
and ... to the barkeep ... "Play it again, Sam" .. please.
Norton Shawn
no...@webtv.net
is ganzrichtig, as immer. He is perfectly correct.!! As a work of
fiction, "No Way Out" is in no way a matter of fact.
All Right, Schultzie.!!
Norton Shawn
Mark and Elaine Taylor
Valentine's day!
Wull
Wull-that is how it is in chemistry anyhow
no...@webtv.net
another knowledgeable idiot enters the group. "welcome, elaine".!!
stoli ... and other brands of vodka ... originated in countries with
very cold climates. russia, poland, norway, sweden, denmark, finland,
iceland. lithuania, latvia, estonia. c-o-l-d.
generally speaking ... the average populace in those places do not have
the benefits of California sunshine ... or of central heating. room
temperatures there might surprise those unnacustomed to them.
"neat means room temperature" wrote elaine taylor. and ... where is
this room, elaine? and when?
after 24 hrs. ... or even less ... vodka kept in the freezer has beome
icily delicious.
after three months ... even better ... vodka thickens. neatness counts
.. but with vodka in the freezer ... it pays to think ahead. but ...
why take my word? try it.
let's see ... it's february now. put a few bottles of vodka in the
freezers now ... they'll be perfect when the warm weather comes. oh ...
freeze those shot glasses, too. and buy or make some dried and salted
herrings ... cut them into thin strips ... put "meadowlands" on the box
.. eat the fish strips while drinking the vodka ... enjoy the red army
chorus ... and replace those bottles out of the freezer with new fresh
ones ... immediately.
better than aerflot. ... fer sure.!!
Norton Shawn
Jeffrey Davis
>
> after three months ... even better ... vodka thickens. neatness counts
> .. but with vodka in the freezer ... it pays to think ahead. but ...
> why take my word? try it.
>
And now for a something completely different: a movie in which this, or
something very like this, occurs. The Long Goodbye. Elliot Gould and
Sterling Hayden drink some aquavit, which is vodka flavored w/ carraway
seeds. Haydon pours from a clump of ice w/ which only has the neck of
the bottle exposed.
Someday, if I live to be a hundred, I'll get around to trying all the
spirits that show up in my favorite books and movies. Aquavit. Pernod.
Retsina. Ouzo. I was actually in Paris this past summer. I'd duck into
bars looking for Pernod and didn't find a single one that served Pernod.
Eventually someone clued me in that bars don't serve Pernod, they serve
[memory leak]. I had a cassis, though, which is like a Pepsi w/ alcohol:
white wine and black currant liquer. The drink is so sweet the crown of
your head puckers.
--
Jeffrey Davis <da...@ca.uky.edu>
Thank you, Madam, the agony is somewhat abated.
Richard Schultz
: Herr Doktor Professor Richard Schultz
: is ganzrichtig, as immer. He is perfectly correct.!! As a work of
: fiction, "No Way Out" is in no way a matter of fact.
: All Right, Schultzie.!!
Thus demonstrating another principle of evolutionary biology. Once
enough aol'ers (ME TOO) moved up in the scheme of things from "slime
mold," something had to replace them in that evolutionary niche.
And thus Webtv was born. . .
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time." -- The French Knight
MadiHolmes
I was in Strasbourg last summer, and my cousin took me barhopping. And what was
ma quatorze cousine et amis drinking?
Tequiza. I flew across the Atlantic to be served a tequila based beer made in
Mexico. It's REALLY a shame since I live only a couple hours from the border as
well.
Ah well... that's life :)
MadiHolmes
Helen & Bob
MadiHolmes wrote:
LA, Madi? I lived there 34 years, the I got out.
Bob
Mark and Elaine Taylor
temperature. Ofcourse. The room was Washington DC, now. I guess Yuri got
used to warmer Vodka. It was just a comment. Were you born mean spirited,
or did you take a class?
Another knowledgeable idiot, Elaine
no...@webtv.net wrote:
> "neat means room temperature" --- elaine taylor.
>
> another knowledgeable idiot enters the group. "welcome, elaine".!!
>
> stoli ... and other brands of vodka ... originated in countries with
> very cold climates. russia, poland, norway, sweden, denmark, finland,
> iceland. lithuania, latvia, estonia. c-o-l-d.
>
> generally speaking ... the average populace in those places do not have
> the benefits of California sunshine ... or of central heating. room
> temperatures there might surprise those unnacustomed to them.
>
> "neat means room temperature" wrote elaine taylor. and ... where is
> this room, elaine? and when?
>
> after 24 hrs. ... or even less ... vodka kept in the freezer has beome
> icily delicious.
>
> after three months ... even better ... vodka thickens. neatness counts
> .. but with vodka in the freezer ... it pays to think ahead. but ...
> why take my word? try it.
>
Mark and Elaine Taylor
it doesn't exist in the States. Where can I find it?
Elaine
Jeffrey Davis wrote:
> no...@webtv.net wrote:
> >
> > after three months ... even better ... vodka thickens. neatness counts
> > .. but with vodka in the freezer ... it pays to think ahead. but ...
> > why take my word? try it.
> >
>
no...@webtv.net
.. social
warmth one could cook their egg in ... low-cut party dresses ... Maori
dancers ... you know, the usual thing ... bottles of bubbly and vodka
kept on ice behind the service table ... hot looks across the crush of
contacts and happinness ... asks:
"Were you born mean-spirited or did you take a class?".
Elaine ... darling ... attendees at an Embassy party are a very
sophisticated bunch. Warm vodka is an anti-amenity with which one need
not put up. Good anti-freeze supplement should the fluid level have
lowered in the limo's cooling system ... but unfit for human
comestiblity ... to be sure.
"Were you born mean-spirited or did you take a class?". Elaine ... pet
.. I do believe that you're beginning to get the hang of it. Have you
been to the newsgroups before?
Norton Shawn
Richard Schultz
: "Were you born mean-spirited or did you take a class?". Elaine ... pet
: .. I do believe that you're beginning to get the hang of it. Have you
: been to the newsgroups before?
Well *you* obviously have not. Are you asking out of curiosity, or
are you looking for helpful tips on how not to look like a luser?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"You don't even have a clue as to which clue you're missing." -- Miss Manners
no...@webtv.net
It occurs to me that Elaine Taylor might have been posting from England
.. where they drink warm beer.
Maybe it's just a U.K. mind on her. Iceless.
..
Norton Shawn
Endy
Richard Schultz <sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
news:88837g$fmu$2...@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il...
> Endy (endy...@mindspring.com.invalid) wrote:
> : My understanding was the whole point of the movie was to make you
> : sympathize with Costner's character, thinking he was unjustly being
> : pursued as the Russian spy. The spy being a creation that did not
> : exist but how do you prove something doesn't exist and you aren't it?
>
> : In the end the twist was that the RS really did exist and Costner
> : was it all along.
>
> Now I realize that the movie was fundamentally stupid even without
> the "surprise" ending (the kind of search of the Pentagon they do
> is physically impossible, at least in the time it takes them). But
> was I really the only one who figured out right at the beginning that
> Costner was in fact a Soviet spy?
Think of the audience watching this film in the late 80s, during the Reagen
era, when Russia was still the "evil empire." Do you really believe
Hollywood would expect a film in theatres during that era, to succeed and
draw crowds that had an obvious Russian spy, winning out over the American
CIA?
no...@webtv.net
finding an anecdote by M.F.K. Fisher on p. 141 of it ... on when, where
and how she first ate caviar ... travelling with her parents in France
in 1931 and having a bite in the quiet back room of the Cafe de la Paix
in Paris ...
"My father and I ate caviar, probably Sevruga, with green-black smallish
beads and a superb challenge of flavor for the iced grassy vodka we used
to cleanse our happy palates".
"iced grassy vodka" ... and I got instantly transported back to 1963 in
New York and the despondent period of my life which followed my first
divorce from marriage and which I lived through by essaying on a trip
through the alcohols of the world.
Laphroig, I discovered, was the Scotch of choice with JW's Black and Red
labels the choicest blends. The classic beer was the Pilsner-Urquell
from Czechoslovakia,
Aquavit/Akvavit, Armagnac, Calvados, Cognac, Dutch/Geneva Gin, Marc,
NgKaPy ... County Fair Bourbon ... especially good when mixed with
Sherry ... Demerara Rum ... 151 proof ... Neutral Spirits from a
chem.lab friend ...all had their moments in Norton Shawn's Alcohol
Parade.
But ... what about vodka?
In 1963 ... outside of diplomatic circles ... Russian vodka was simply
not to be had.
It was that bad Khrushchev again ... this time with some sort of
nonsense embargo
he'd put on the stuff ... just to displease me ... apparently. Well ...
it didn't work.!!
It just so happened that I was living at the time in a Polish-Ukranian
neigborhood ...
and found ... Zubrovka.
Zubrovka ... the Russian or Polish word for "bison" ... there was a
picture of such on the bottle's label ... and a few strands of green
grass ... the bison's food ... on the bottom of each bottle ...
imparting the drink's particular and delicate flavor.
I had had vodka before ... in 1945, my Army unit met up with the
Russians at the Elbe. We exchanged what we had and what we could. And
I'd even seen caviar before ... but I didn't know what it was.
Way back n the Ruhr ... we came upon a cache of kilo cans of the stuff
.. that the Germans had liberated at the Eastern front and sent West
for the homefront's reserve food supply. Some of the other louts took
it to be boot polish and applied it but ... it got smelly. It was
Beluga.
..
Norton Shawn
no...@webtv.net
"... lookig for helpful hints on how not to look like a luser?".
Nobody likes looking like a luser.
.
Norton Shawn
Jeffrey Davis
> Jeffrey Davis wrote in message
> >
> > Eventually someone clued me in that bars don't serve Pernod, they serve .
> >
>
> Ricard? Pastis?
I'll regret this later, but my final answer is Ricard.
no...@webtv.net
You'll be glad that you did.!!
. . .
Norton Shawn