Guess how long Bill Murray was stuck in Punxsutawney pennsylvania for in Groundhog day?

[Chris Tsao]

Ten years, according to Harold Ramis the director and one of the
people who changed the original script. I downloaded a new book about
the making of the movie into my laptop a few hours ago, I will post
some more interesting information about the movie in a few days. I
think the book is only an e-book for some reason.

[anim8rfsk]

Didn't they originally intend hundreds or thousands of years or something?
Not that it matters since they didn't say it in the movie, and if your
physical self is reverting every morning, I don't see how you can possibly
become a great piano player anyway. :)

--
sent from a borrowed ipad

[Howard Brazee]

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 12:22:59 GMT, anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

>
>Didn't they originally intend hundreds or thousands of years or something?
>Not that it matters since they didn't say it in the movie, and if your
>physical self is reverting every morning, I don't see how you can possibly
>become a great piano player anyway. :)

I can see the director editing out millions of boring days...

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[calvin]

I thought he was there only one day.

[calvin]

On Feb 18, 10:11 am, calvin <cri...@windstream.net> wrote:
> I thought he was there only one day.

Or maybe two, if you count the day he arrived there.

[Halmyre]

On Feb 18, 12:22 pm, anim8rfsk <anim8r...@cox.net> wrote:

I would have thought as long as he remembered how to play it wouldn't
matter, but yes, pianists probably have tendons like piano wire.

--
Halmyre

[John Doe]

calvin <crice5 windstream.net> wrote:

> calvin <crice5 windstream.net> wrote:

>> I thought he was there only one day.
>
> Or maybe two, if you count the day he arrived there.

That is regarding only the calendar days. The actual number of
days was more than that. I had not thought about him being there
for longer than that, but in reality becoming a great piano player
would take a lot longer. Then again, in reality other things would
fail too, no matter how many days.

The clear answer to the question as it's posed in the subject line
would be the number of days shown in the movie, IMO.

[Obveeus]

The whole point of that movie was to demonstrate just how much a guy has to
do just in order to get laid on a first date.

It is similar to the joke about 'would you sleep with me for $5? No. Would
you sleep with me for $5,000,000? Yes. So, now we know what you are and we
are just haggling over price.'

[John Doe]

I thought he became a forte pianist in 45 minutes. Hey, it's a
movie :D

Now I know that the story takes place over a much longer time than
shown.

--











>
> -- Halmyre
>
>

[anim8rfsk]

Yep. I wonder if there's any musical instrument that you could get great
at without physical changes?

Also ... Now, I love GD, but I've always had a problem with the piano
lessons too. At first he can't play at all, and I guess he bribes the
teacher, but pretty soon he's going to be good enough she's going to
question the need, and eventually he's going to be so much better than her
that it's pointless ...

[anim8rfsk]

Well, three then. The day he arrived, the loop day, the next day; 3 days,
2 nights.

[Halmyre]

On Feb 18, 4:27 pm, anim8rfsk <anim8r...@cox.net> wrote:

There's a plot hole where the women comments that Murray is her star
pupil, or something like that. But to her he's someone she only met
earlier that day. However, I suppose he could have convinced her that
he was a pupil of hers many years ago.

--
Halmyre

[Howard Brazee]

On 18 Feb 2012 15:33:57 GMT, John Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:

>That is regarding only the calendar days. The actual number of
>days was more than that. I had not thought about him being there
>for longer than that, but in reality becoming a great piano player
>would take a lot longer. Then again, in reality other things would
>fail too, no matter how many days.

How did the teacher get to be so proud of his piano playing? - after
all, she only knew him that last day.

[Chris Tsao]

On Feb 18, 3:16 pm, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:

> Halmyre <flashgordonreced...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I would have thought as long as he remembered how to play it wouldn't
> > matter, but yes, pianists probably have tendons like piano wire.
>

> I play piano, and can recall a few people recoiling with "Ouch!" a few
> times when shaking hands with me. I have to be careful. ;)


After Groundhog Day, they offered to hire the writer to write an
adaptation of a French film about a dog who wakes up as a man. He
liked the idea, but I don't think he took the project.

[Bastette]

Halmyre wrote:

>> Didn't they originally intend hundreds or thousands of years or something?
>> Not that it matters since they didn't say it in the movie, and if your
>> physical self is reverting every morning, I don't see how you can possibly
>> become a great piano player anyway.  :)

> I would have thought as long as he remembered how to play it wouldn't
> matter, but yes, pianists probably have tendons like piano wire.

Muscular strength and agility are important, but neurons are even more
important. Your brain has to develop the pathways to remember the complex
hand movements needed. If you've ever tried a new physical activity and
were clumsy about it at first, you'll know what I mean. You brain hasn't
developed the structures yet so that it can tell your body what to do.

I certainly hope it wasn't hundreds or thousands of years! After all
that time, he'd probably be insane, not a well-loved great guy and
expert in everything.

Bastette

[Chris Tsao]

On Feb 18, 5:42 pm, Bastette <bastXXXe...@sonic.net> wrote:

> I certainly hope it wasn't hundreds or thousands of years! After all
> that time, he'd probably be insane, not a well-loved great guy and
> expert in everything.

If I remember right, when the author first came up with the premise,
he toyed with the idea of making it hundreds of years.

[calvin]

One day, not counting the day he arrived. That's the
whole point of the movie. It was one day.

[Howard Brazee]

On 18 Feb 2012 22:42:45 GMT, Bastette <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote:

> > I would have thought as long as he remembered how to play it wouldn't
> > matter, but yes, pianists probably have tendons like piano wire.
>
>Muscular strength and agility are important, but neurons are even more
>important. Your brain has to develop the pathways to remember the complex
>hand movements needed. If you've ever tried a new physical activity and
>were clumsy about it at first, you'll know what I mean. You brain hasn't
>developed the structures yet so that it can tell your body what to do.

But memories are physical as well. If his memories last from day to
day, then his body changes as well. We haven't seen whether bruises
and cuts last - nor death. But his brain does change. He could
have gone on a physical health program if he started noticing his body
changing.

Except this is a fantasy.

[trotsky]

*That* was the whole point of the movie? Getting a do-over so you're
not a self-serving asshole wasn't? Who knew.

[anim8rfsk]

That's as good a reasoning as I've heard for that one; Shirley he knows
enough about her to convince her her knew her years ago.

[Halmyre]

The technique helped him to get laid, so there must have been
something in it.

--
Halmyre

[calvin]

I just watched the movie again yesterday, for the second
time ever, and also listened to the director's commentary.
He put the total time, from Murray's point of view, at
about ten years, to account for his learning to play the
piano so well.

I can't argue with that logic, but it seems too long
to me, for other considerations, 10 years being over
3650 days, during which time he surely would have gone
insane.

[weary flake]

I wonder what would happen if you watched the movie
every day for ten years.

[gtr]

You've spent any time in stir, I imagine.

I don't think you'd go insane. Especially if you had the opportunity
to learn the play the piano, for example, to keep busy. Or read all
the great classics, though you'd have to read them in the library,
since you don't have a library card. Certainly the newspaper would
become very predictable, though.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo

[Madara0806]

I watched the movie once. Clever idea, good casting and acting,
amusing tale. Never felt like watching it again. Still don't.

[calvin]

That was how I felt for about ten years. But this
thread prodded me to watch it again, and the movie
turned out to be much deeper and relevant than I
realized on first viewing. It's a serious morality
play told in comedy.

One of the clinchers is the part about the old homeless
man who died at the end of the day; but Murray couldn't
accept it that it was just his time, as the nurse said. So
in his next repeat of the day he takes the man to lunch
and tries to start him back on the road to health, but
at the end of the day the old man dies anyway.

[calvin]

On Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:05:27 AM UTC-5, ade...@inbox.com wrote:

> And your point being that Groundhog Day is an absurdist production?

I think it is a spiritual, though secular, production.
The definition of 'absurdist' that I find at Wikipedia
implies more than I would say about this movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdist_fiction

[Bastette]

calvin wrote:

> I think it is a spiritual, though secular, production.

Exactly. I would call it a spiritual journey, in the secular way that
you meant it. He started out as a selfish, shallow and egotistical jerk,
and after going through many transitions - at first taking advantage of
the situation to get whatever he wanted (eg, the Brinks truck), to becoming
even more ego-inflated ("I am a god"), to becoming reckless and then
depressed, and attempting many suicides, to deciding to use the time to
better himself - which he did at first only to get Andie MacDowell** in
the sack, but eventually, those activities became an end in itself, and
finally ending up as a person with depth, compassion, interest in others,
many skills and lots of friends and admirers (all of whom were accumulated
in a single day). It may not be the deepest movie ever made, but there
was more going on under the comedy.

**The only negative thing about the movie. Couldn't they have picked
someone less annoying for that role??

Bastette

[calvin]

On the DVD the director said that he had been told by
people of several different religions, eastern and western,
that the movie well expressed their faiths.

Speaking of all the friends and admirers accumulated in a
single day, in a movie like this there are bound to be
plot holes, and I think one was the music teacher being
so proud of her student. He would have come to her
that day already an expert with years of training, so
she would more likely have thought that her contribution
was negligible. (Though I guess he could have pretended
to be a fast-learning prodigy during his advanced lessons.)

[gtr]

On 2012-03-12 19:54:55 +0000, Bastette said:

> Exactly. I would call it a spiritual journey, in the secular way that
> you meant it. He started out as a selfish, shallow and egotistical jerk,
> and after going through many transitions - at first taking advantage of
> the situation to get whatever he wanted (eg, the Brinks truck), to becoming
> even more ego-inflated ("I am a god"), to becoming reckless and then
> depressed, and attempting many suicides, to deciding to use the time to
> better himself - which he did at first only to get Andie MacDowell** in
> the sack, but eventually, those activities became an end in itself, and
> finally ending up as a person with depth, compassion, interest in others,
> many skills and lots of friends and admirers (all of whom were accumulated
> in a single day). It may not be the deepest movie ever made, but there
> was more going on under the comedy.

I never saw the movie in quite that way. I just thought it was kinda
funny, but not worth that much attention.

> **The only negative thing about the movie. Couldn't they have picked
> someone less annoying for that role??

I thought he did a great job. It's much more difficult to find an
actor of significant artistic depth that can do humor. But one of the
more significant reasons why Murray was in the role was because Harold
Ramis and he were practically attached at the hip in those days. Murray
was the Toshiro MIfune to Ramis's Kurosawa, though it seems I've
confused Ramis the director with Ramis the screenwriter. They worked
together on Meatballs, Caddyshack, Stripes, Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters
II,

It has always evoked my curiousity, that there were significant
differences between them on the movie. At the conclusion, or perhaps
along the way, Murray said he would never work with Ramis again.

Apparently folks have given this movie more thought and honor than I
might have imagined. There is a web-page of trivia:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/trivia

Which includes this:

"On the DVD, Harold Ramis states that the original idea was for him to
live February 2nd for about 10,000 years. Later he says that Phil
probably lived the same day for about 10 years."

… and this …

"According to the website Wolf Gnards, Bill Murray spends 8 years, 8
months and 16 days trapped in Groundhog Day. The website Obsessed With
Film claims he was trapped 12,403 days, just under 34 years, in order
to account for becoming a master piano player, ice sculptor, etc."

Ah! A partial balm for my curiosity:

"Bill Murray was undergoing a divorce at the time of filming and was
obsessing about the film. He would ring Harold Ramis constantly, often
in the early hours of the morning. Ramis eventually sent writer Danny
Rubin to sit with Murray and iron out all his anxieties, one of the
reasons why Murray stopped speaking to Ramis for several years."

Regarding my statement above that it's not worthy of "that much
attention", apparently many do not agree:

"In 2003, this movie was the opening night film in the Museum of Modern
Art's "The Hidden God: Film and Faith" series. A December 7, 2003, New
York Times article called "Groundhog Almighty" discussed both the
seeming incongruity of Groundhog Day being curated alongside such
"serious" films asLuis Buñuel's Nazarin, Federico Fellini's 8½, Ingmar
Bergman's Winter Light, and Andrei Tarkovsky's _Andrei Rublev_ and the
opinions of different clergy-people and religious adherents (including
rabbis, Jesuit priests, Buddhists, practitioners of Falun Dafa, and
Wiccans) about how the movie is applicable to or actually about their
respective religion."

[calvin]

On Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:59:45 PM UTC-4, gtr wrote:
> On 2012-03-12 19:54:55 +0000, Bastette said:

> > ...

> > **The only negative thing about the movie. Couldn't they have picked
> > someone less annoying for that role??
>
> I thought he did a great job. It's much more difficult to find an
> actor of significant artistic depth that can do humor. But one of the
> more significant reasons why Murray was in the role was because Harold
> Ramis and he were practically attached at the hip in those days.

You didn't follow the footnote correctly:

Andie MacDowell**

[Bastette]

gtr wrote:

> On 2012-03-12 19:54:55 +0000, Bastette said:

>> **The only negative thing about the movie. Couldn't they have picked
>> someone less annoying for that role??

> I thought he did a great job. It's much more difficult to find an
> actor of significant artistic depth that can do humor. But one of the
> more significant reasons why Murray was in the role was because Harold
> Ramis and he were practically attached at the hip in those days.

No, no, I meant Andie MacDowell! Bill Murray was fine - he was perfect.
I just can't stand Andie MacDowell - she has the same pained expression
in every movie, like she's so refined and cultured and has to suffer
boorish clods in her breathing space all the time. OK, maybe that attitude
was justified at the begnning of Groundhog Day, since Murray's character
*was* a boorish clod. But she always looks like that.

Bastette

[Captain Infinity]

Once Upon A Time,

Bastette wrote:

>No, no, I meant Andie MacDowell! Bill Murray was fine - he was perfect.
>I just can't stand Andie MacDowell - she has the same pained expression
>in every movie, like she's so refined and cultured and has to suffer
>boorish clods in her breathing space all the time. OK, maybe that attitude
>was justified at the begnning of Groundhog Day, since Murray's character
>*was* a boorish clod. But she always looks like that.

Absolutely agree. I enjoy Groudhog Day very much, but I could never
understand why Phil desired her so much. *He* changed but she never did.
She was the same cuntemptible bitch throughout the entire movie.


**
Captain Infinity

[Howard Brazee]

I thought she was well cast, her job being to show us what an ass he
was. Why *should* she change in one day?

[trotsky]

Whom did you have in mind--James Franco?

[Captain Infinity]

Once Upon A Time,

Howard Brazee wrote:

>On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:50:12 -0400, Captain Infinity
><Infi...@captaininfinity.us> wrote:
>
>>Once Upon A Time,
>>Bastette wrote:
>>
>>>No, no, I meant Andie MacDowell! Bill Murray was fine - he was perfect.
>>>I just can't stand Andie MacDowell - she has the same pained expression
>>>in every movie, like she's so refined and cultured and has to suffer
>>>boorish clods in her breathing space all the time. OK, maybe that attitude
>>>was justified at the begnning of Groundhog Day, since Murray's character
>>>*was* a boorish clod. But she always looks like that.
>>
>>Absolutely agree. I enjoy Groudhog Day very much, but I could never
>>understand why Phil desired her so much. *He* changed but she never did.
>>She was the same cuntemptible bitch throughout the entire movie.
>
>I thought she was well cast, her job being to show us what an ass he
>was. Why *should* she change in one day?

I'm not saying she should. She shouldn't. I'm saying she was such a
frosty bitch that there's no imaginable reason that Phil would be attracted
to her.


**
Captain Infinity

[Obveeus]

...it took 10,000 years of preparation just to win her over. That was the
central point in the movie: all women will sleep with a man on the first
date, but some of those women require a really high price to do it.

[Howard Brazee]

Possibly. We don't get a chance to know her except mainly one day.
And *anybody* can be a frosty bitch for a day.

[calvin]

I had no one else in mind. It was Bastette's footnote.

[Bastette]

I didn't have anyone in mind. I was just complaining about how annoying
Andie MacDowell is.

--
Bastette

"Bacteria, with a few more bells and whistles."
-- Bonnie Bassler, describing human beings

[Bastette]

Howard Brazee wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:37:43 -0400, Captain Infinity
> <Infi...@captaininfinity.us> wrote:

>>>I thought she was well cast, her job being to show us what an ass he
>>>was. Why *should* she change in one day?
>>
>>I'm not saying she should. She shouldn't. I'm saying she was such a
>>frosty bitch that there's no imaginable reason that Phil would be attracted
>>to her.

> Possibly. We don't get a chance to know her except mainly one day.
> And *anybody* can be a frosty bitch for a day.

I didn't have a problem with her character - I don't remember everything
she said in the movie, but nothing sticks in my memory as being especially
annoying. She had worked with Phil for - not sure how long, a few years,
maybe? - and he was an ass the whole time, so I don't blame her for being
bitchy to him. What I do have a problem with is the actress who plays
her - the same problem I have with her in every movie I've seen her in.
Remember Green Card, with Gerard Depardieu? She had the exact same
personality, that same pained expression at being stuck with such an
uncultured slob. Does she do anything else?

[Howard Brazee]

On 14 Mar 2012 19:29:23 GMT, Bastette <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote:

>I didn't have a problem with her character - I don't remember everything
>she said in the movie, but nothing sticks in my memory as being especially
>annoying. She had worked with Phil for - not sure how long, a few years,
>maybe? - and he was an ass the whole time, so I don't blame her for being
>bitchy to him. What I do have a problem with is the actress who plays
>her - the same problem I have with her in every movie I've seen her in.
>Remember Green Card, with Gerard Depardieu? She had the exact same
>personality, that same pained expression at being stuck with such an
>uncultured slob. Does she do anything else?

I understand where you're coming from. Occasionally such a
personality works for a role.

[Captain Infinity]

Once Upon A Time,
Bastette wrote:

>Howard Brazee wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:37:43 -0400, Captain Infinity
> > <Infi...@captaininfinity.us> wrote:
>
> >>>I thought she was well cast, her job being to show us what an ass he
> >>>was. Why *should* she change in one day?
> >>
> >>I'm not saying she should. She shouldn't. I'm saying she was such a
> >>frosty bitch that there's no imaginable reason that Phil would be attracted
> >>to her.
>
> > Possibly. We don't get a chance to know her except mainly one day.
> > And *anybody* can be a frosty bitch for a day.
>
>I didn't have a problem with her character - I don't remember everything
>she said in the movie, but nothing sticks in my memory as being especially
>annoying.

How about this scene:

Phil: Can I buy you a drink? (a dozen times)
Rita: (finally reluctantly giving in) OK. What shall we drink to?
Phil: (thinks) How about we drink to the groundhog!?
Rita: You ignorant schmuck, I only drink to "world peace".
Phil: THEN WHY THE FUCK DID YOU ASK ME WHAT WE SHOULD DRINK TO???

I paraphrase, of course, but you get the gist.

>She had worked with Phil for - not sure how long, a few years,
>maybe? - and he was an ass the whole time, so I don't blame her for being
>bitchy to him

Nope. They had never worked together before. He sees her for the first
time in the studio the day before they leave for Punxutawney; she's playing
in front of the weather map blue screen. Here's the dialog:

Kenny: That was great, Phil. "Big trees"? LOL!
Phil: Stop, Kenny. Look, can you handle the 10:00 or not?
Kenny: Yeah. Listen, if for any reason you don't want to rush back, I can
do the 5:00 tomorrow.
Phil: Come on, I wanna stay an extra second in Punxutawney? Please!
Kenny: Look, Rita thinks it would be a great idea to stay around for some
of the other events. You'll get some incredible footage. The people and
the fun. The excitement. You haven't worked with her yet, have you? She's
really nice.

And this time I'm not paraphrasing. They had never met. She forms her
opinion of him within moments of them setting off on the drive. She seems
pleasant at first, imitating the groundhog coming out of his hole, but when
he mocks her, her frostiness sets in for good seconds later with "I like
blood sausage".

Which, by the way, GROSS!


**
Captain Infinity

[Bastette]

You obviously remember this movie better than I do. :) Or did you go to
IMDb for the quotes? I do remember the bar scene (now that you mention it),
but not the blood sausage remark.

There was one movie where I didn't think she was intolerable, and that
was "Beauty Shop". I'm sure Queen Latifah wouldn't have put up with the
snotty "more-refined-than-thou" routine.

Bastette

[gtr]

On 2012-03-14 19:29:23 +0000, Bastette said:

> What I do have a problem with is the actress who plays her [Andie
> MacDowell ]-- the same problem I have with her in every movie I've seen

> her in. Remember Green Card, with Gerard Depardieu? She had the exact
> same personality, that same pained expression at being stuck with such
> an uncultured slob. Does she do anything else?

She's not an actress. Or she is an actress whose scope is limited to
her own pesonality. She certainly proves this in everything she's been
in. I saw her and liked her in "Sex, Lies and Videotape" if memory
serves, and I liked her. I liked *her*.

As such, I've never had a problem with her. I like her. I think Terri
Garr is the same thing. She more or less did the same thing throughout
her career. Not a problem, I like that gal! If they had cast her in a
significant role, the casting director would be an idiot, and she would
be more than terrible!

[Captain Infinity]

The bar scene I paraphrased from memory, and it's stuck in my memory
because it pisses me off so much, why the heck would she straight-line him
like that and then shoot him down when chances were 99.999999999999999%
that he would *not* say "world peace"? See You Next Tuesday!

For the scene with Kenny I went straight to the .avi stored on my movie
drive because I wanted to be sure my memory was correct, that he had never
met her before. The beginning of the movie is the most forgettable part,
no doubt because it's the only part that isn't replayed a hundred times
over.


**
Captain Infinity

[Mack A. Damia]

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:02:48 -0700, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:


>As such, I've never had a problem with her. I like her. I think Terri
>Garr is the same thing. She more or less did the same thing throughout
>her career. Not a problem, I like that gal!

"Elevate me!"

"Now? Right here?"
--

[Obveeus]

"gtr" <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> On 2012-03-14 19:29:23 +0000, Bastette said:
>
>> What I do have a problem with is the actress who plays her [Andie
>> MacDowell ]-- the same problem I have with her in every movie I've seen
>> her in. Remember Green Card, with Gerard Depardieu? She had the exact
>> same personality, that same pained expression at being stuck with such an
>> uncultured slob. Does she do anything else?
>
> She's not an actress. Or she is an actress whose scope is limited to her
> own pesonality. She certainly proves this in everything she's been in. I
> saw her and liked her in "Sex, Lies and Videotape" if memory serves, and I
> liked her. I liked *her*.

My general opinion of her was formed from 'Sex, lies, and Videotape' as
well. Not the actual film, though, but an interview she was doing for
Entertainment Tonight (or similar) at the time in which she talked about how
wrong nudity in film was and how she would never do anything like that
because she was too classy.

Looking at IMDB, though, maybe I already had a subliminally bad attitude
about her from 'Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan' and the weird voice
dubbing?

In any case, I always felt that she was perfectly cast in Groundhog's Day.

[Bastette]

In the same way that Keanu Reeves was perfectly cast in Bill and Ted's
Excellent Adventure. (Also, as Julie's boyfriend in Parenthood - same
character essentially.)


Bastette

[Rolande Theriault]

On Saturday, February 18, 2012 at 6:16:10 AM UTC-5, Chris Tsao wrote:
> Ten years, according to Harold Ramis the director and one of the
> people who changed the original script. I downloaded a new book about
> the making of the movie into my laptop a few hours ago, I will post
> some more interesting information about the movie in a few days. I
> think the book is only an e-book for some reason.

10,000 years because that’s how long Buddhists believe it takes to perfect the soul.