Underacting vs. overacting
Bob
the differences between underacting and bad acting on the one hand and
overacting and bad acting on the other. Consider underacting. Was Ali
MacGraw an under actor or simply a bad actress? Maybe under acting by
definition IS bad acting (?). Now Jack Webb, in his Dragnet role,
clearly under acted purposely. Everyone did in that series. It was
supposed to be cool.
Now over acting. Clearly, Greta Garbo over acted in Grand Hotel. (She
had not yet shaken off the silent screen habit.) And one of my
favorite female stars I believe overdid it at times -- Barbara Rush.
But her talent, her ability to laugh, cry, scowl, scream, and display
every emotion in the book like the flick of a switch, her ever
changing facial expressions were incredible. But she seemed to enjoy
doing it so much she occasionally didn't know when to stop. Now who
overacted but did so with little talent?
Bob
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John Harkness
>Here's a topic I don't remember being discussed. I've often pondered
>the differences between underacting and bad acting on the one hand and
>overacting and bad acting on the other. Consider underacting. Was Ali
>MacGraw an under actor or simply a bad actress? Maybe under acting by
>definition IS bad acting (?). Now Jack Webb, in his Dragnet role,
>clearly under acted purposely. Everyone did in that series. It was
>supposed to be cool.
>
>Now over acting. Clearly, Greta Garbo over acted in Grand Hotel. (She
>had not yet shaken off the silent screen habit.)
No -- she's playing a grandly theatrical character, a prima ballerina.
It would be silly of her to pitch her performance at the level of
realism that Joan Crawford manages in the same film.
And speaking of Crawford, was she overacting in Rain, or just
over-edited?
John Harkness
DarrinT68
Less is more, provided that you can utilize it to your benefit! Incidentally, I
just saw ALI MACGRAW again in THE GETAWAY!! With that said, I'm going with the
latter!! LOL!eheheh She barely GETS AWAY with her acting!eh Pun intended!hehehe
Steve Oldham
placid exterior you knew the 'character' lived.
Under acting that's bad acting : Kevin Costner.
I guess it comes down to whether they can convince you to believe that
they believe.
Steve
Susan Umpleby
news:20010125221958...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
------------One film I did like her in was "Just Tell Me What You Want."
Stephen Bayer
darr...@aol.com (DarrinT68) wrote:
> >Was Ali MacGraw an under actor or simply a bad actress?
>
> Less is more, provided that you can utilize it to your benefit!
> Incidentally, I just saw ALI MACGRAW again in THE GETAWAY!! With that
> said, I'm going with the latter!!
>
I thought she was excellent when directed by Sidney Lumet in "Just Tell
Me What You Want", and certainly not under-acting. (This film also
marked the last screen appearance of Myrna Loy, superb as ever.)
Regards,
Steve Bayer
Bill Warren
that the actor is the character? I don't mean be completely fooled into
thinking that, say, Michael Caine really IS Alfie, but to believe that their
actions are authentic in the context.
Dean Eaton
rather than the under. De Niro is usually awful these days because he can be
very monochromatic; Pacino can be awful when he overacts, but at least he's
DOING something. "Heat" was a fascinating study in their acting styles for
me. And sometimes the actor isn't overacting, he or she is just overscaling.
Cagney never overacts, exactly, but he is always a little bigger than life,
which seems to suit him.
dean
"Susan Umpleby" <sump...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:618c6.158$OR1....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
John Harkness
wrote:
>As I get older, I appreciate the flagrant performing style of the overactor
>rather than the under. De Niro is usually awful these days because he can be
>very monochromatic; Pacino can be awful when he overacts, but at least he's
>DOING something. "Heat" was a fascinating study in their acting styles for
>me. And sometimes the actor isn't overacting, he or she is just overscaling.
>Cagney never overacts, exactly, but he is always a little bigger than life,
>which seems to suit him.
>dean
You must hate David Mamet....
John Harkness
StormChaser
effect. A well placed "yup" here and
there and he was Sargeant York and
John Doe.
Peter Sellers in BEING THERE underacted
in a masterful way. His performance as
Chance Gardner made that movie a modern
classic.
Keanu Reeves underacts in most of his
movies but I'm not sure if he is
awake while filming them.
Jessica Walters did a superb overacting job
in PLAY MISTY FOR ME.
Rod Steiger overacts in his movies since
the mid-sixties.
The king of bad overacting by far is Richard Burton.
THE ASSASSINATION OF TROTSKY production
assistants must've kept plenty of scenery around
for him to chew.
StormChaser
"Bob" <rbada...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:94qoel$n41$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Bill Warren
admiration for actors like, say, Charles Laughton and John Barrymore. He said
he realized that American movie acting, including his own, had become nothing
but "realistic" -- he wanted to make room for the broad gesture again. That's
why he acted as he did in GOIN' SOUTH and other films.
tricks...@my-deja.com
style:
Heat, Scent of a Woman, Devil's Advocate (at the end).
And Ingrid Bergman (yes she was beautiful) but she overacted for the
camera. I mean in a lot of her movies the shot is a close up of her
emoting.
TJNORT
>From: j...@attcanada.ca (John Harkness)
>Date: 1/25/01 7:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <3a70e96c...@nntp.attcanada.ca>
The problem with the Joan Crawford RAIN is not Joan Crawford but John Huston, a
great actor who in this instance sounded as if he had put too much ironic
distance between himself and the role of Davidson. Raymond Massey could have
done the role with both the proper involvement and an appropriate lack of humor
(he was quite good in a similar part in John Ford's THE HURRICANE). Laughton
would have made a great Davidson, too, probably a combination of Dr. Moreau and
Captain Bligh liberally dosed with religious fanaticism and not devoid of
masochistic undercurrents.
John Harkness
>> overacting
>>From: j...@attcanada.ca (John Harkness)
>>Date: 1/25/01 7:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: <3a70e96c...@nntp.attcanada.ca>
>>
>>On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:46:47 GMT, Bob <rbada...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Here's a topic I don't remember being discussed. I've often pondered
>>>the differences between underacting and bad acting on the one hand and
>>>overacting and bad acting on the other. Consider underacting. Was Ali
>>>MacGraw an under actor or simply a bad actress? Maybe under acting by
>>>definition IS bad acting (?). Now Jack Webb, in his Dragnet role,
>>>clearly under acted purposely. Everyone did in that series. It was
>>>supposed to be cool.
>>>
>>>Now over acting. Clearly, Greta Garbo over acted in Grand Hotel. (She
>>>had not yet shaken off the silent screen habit.)
>>
>>No -- she's playing a grandly theatrical character, a prima ballerina.
>>It would be silly of her to pitch her performance at the level of
>>realism that Joan Crawford manages in the same film.
>>
>>And speaking of Crawford, was she overacting in Rain, or just
>>over-edited?
>>
>>John Harkness
>>
>>
>>
>
>The problem with the Joan Crawford RAIN is not Joan Crawford but John Huston, a
>great actor who in this instance sounded as if he had put too much ironic
>distance between himself and the role of Davidson.
And not John Huston, but his father, Walter.
John Harkness
TJNORT
>Message-id: <3a7216aa...@nntp.attcanada.ca>
Whoops. Sorry about THAT slip.
The Avocado Avenger
>> >Was Ali MacGraw an under actor or simply a bad actress?
>>
>> Less is more, provided that you can utilize it to your benefit!
>> Incidentally, I just saw ALI MACGRAW again in THE GETAWAY!! With that
>> said, I'm going with the latter!!
>I thought she was excellent when directed by Sidney Lumet in "Just Tell
>Me What You Want", and certainly not under-acting. (This film also
>marked the last screen appearance of Myrna Loy, superb as ever.)
MacGraw was quite good in "Goodbye Columbus", at least for her. She
went from overacting to underacting, so I know she's capable of both.
My favorite bits of underacting were many of the straight-line scenes
George Burns did in "The Sunshine Boys". Come to think of it, Matthau's
overacting in the same movie is some of my favorite overacting. A truly
great movie.
A runner-up for overacting would be F Murray Abraham in "Amadeus". He
was also in "The Sunshine Boys", heh heh...
Stacia * The Avocado Avenger * Life is a tale told by an idiot;
http://www.io.com/~stacia/ * Full of sound and fury,
There is no guacamole anywhere. * Signifying nothing.
Sandra Mendoza
Worse still, I think that he's twisting scripts out of shape. ANY GIVEN
SUNDAY'S last speech by Pacino gave him a dramatic moment but totally undercut
the story that had preceded. The decision he made was the opposite of what the
film had set up,.
THE OUTSIDER was supposed to be about the evils of nicotine and the tobacco
companies. Yet, it started with a scene totally irrelevant to the plot but
there to make Pacino look good. The whistleblower wasn't important. Mike
Wallace wasn't important. Don Hewitt wasn't important. The character Pacino
played was the important one, the hero, the one who gave Pacino a chance to
tell everyone off and prove how much better he is. Sigh!!!
Pacino made a film LOOKING FOR RICHARD whose theme was Pacino's desire to play
the villainous Richard Crookback. Yet Alec Baldwin in the same film convinced
me that he should play Richard not the sloppy, loud Al.
Sandra Mendoza
<< >As I get older, I appreciate the flagrant performing style of the overactor
rather than the under. De Niro is usually awful these days because he can be
very monochromatic; Pacino can be awful when he overacts, but at least he's
>DOING something. "Heat" was a fascinating study in their acting styles for me.
And sometimes the actor isn't overacting, he or she is just overscaling.Cagney
never overacts, exactly, but he is always a little bigger than life, which
seems to suit him.>>
I agree with you about Pacino who I find an annoyingly loud ham and about
DeNiro whose naturalistic style is very boring when he does drama.
Cagney was a very stylized actor and I like stylization. Garbo was a very
stylized actress as was Dietrich and Bankhead and Barrymore. Their kind of
romanticism and stylization is out of fashion now and instead we get the dreary
folks next door.
Peter O'Toole without a director to rein him in turns into a pure ham. Compare
his hambone Henry Higgins with Leslie Howard's in the original PYGMALION.
Katherine Turner without a director is all over the place but look at the
controlled stylization Lawrence Kasdan got out of her in BODY HEAT, just as
Hawks had done with Bacall in TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT and THE BIG SLEEP.
Sandra ;-)
Heroic, Hilarious, Erotic and Romantic Films:
http://hometown.aol.com/wrldlywit/myhomepage/movies.html
.
Sandra Mendoza
<< Was Ali MacGraw an under actor or simply a bad actress?>>
Too much success too quickly made her a very self-conscious actress and she
dealt with it by going to a shrink rather than an acting coach, a very wrong
decision. She had enormous style in GOODBYE COLUMBUS, and it wasn't a couture
style as Audrey Hepburn's was, it was a style available to any young woman with
taste and a nillionaire clothes budget.
And her introduction to the audience doing the backstroke during the film's
main title, over the Association's great song was much more joyous,
spontaneous and sexy than Esther Williams ever was.
<<Maybe under acting by definition IS bad acting (?). >>
It's what DeNiro does unless he's doing comedy so I guess the critics wouldn't
agree with you.
<<Now Jack Webb, in his Dragnet role, clearly under acted purposely. Everyone
did in that series. It was supposed to be cool. >>
Hmm. Remember PETER GUNN? That series was also cooler than thou. And very, very
stylized.
<< Clearly, Greta Garbo over acted in Grand Hotel. (She had not yet shaken off
the silent screen habit.) >>
Not true. She was playing a ballerina. And at that time virtually ALL
ballerinas were drama queens.
I saw AS YOU DESIRE ME a few years ago and all the acting in the film save
Garbo's seemed dated. Garbo was stylized but didn't overact.
Barbara Rush on the other hand had a touch of hysteria about her, a trait in an
actress that gives me the willies. Julia Roberts has a bit of that hysteria
about her and I saw the same trait in Renee Zellweiger at the Golden Globes the
other night. Worst of all was Judy Garland when she seemed close to a
breakdown.
Sandra ;-)
Sandra Mendoza
<< Under acting that was good acting : Montgomery Clift. Under that
placid exterior you knew the 'character' lived.>>
Placid? Monty Clift was my first crush. I saw him in RED RIVER (which my
parents loathed and referred to as *STAMPEDE*) and became mesmerized by his
intensity and inner power.
<<Under acting that's bad acting : Kevin Costner.>>
I defended Costner for years but am beginning to think he's become a major
gasbag.
Helen & Bob
Sandra Mendoza wrote:
>
>
> <<Now Jack Webb, in his Dragnet role, clearly under acted purposely. Everyone
> did in that series. It was supposed to be cool. >>
>
Was it "cool", or recognition that the Police deal with the
horrific on a much more daily basis than the general public,
and things that would cause you or I to run in circles,
screaming and shouting, are everyday occurrences to
Policemen?
Bob
GrapeApe
>the mid-sixties.
He was chewing the scenery way before then. Not to bad effect always.
--cut and paste to adopt this sig file---
Make Deja a useful archive again! Where are messages older than 2 yrs?
Dean Eaton
"Court Martial of Billy Mitchell" abounds in Steiger-isms, including his
emphatic singing of his lines for emphasis. It's a wonder that Gary Cooper
doesn't burst out laughing.
dean
"GrapeApe" <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote in message
news:20010129020452...@ng-md1.aol.com...
Dawn Taylor
>>Rod Steiger overacts in his movies since
>>the mid-sixties.
>
>He was chewing the scenery way before then. Not to bad effect always.
>
His performance as Mr. Joyboy in The Loved One makes that film for me.
Even just rememembering it makes me giggle.
Dawn
-----------------
The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego
ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering
with the pleasures of others. - Bertrand Russell
Noel O Shea
('68).
Dawn Taylor <dawn...@pacifier.com> wrote in message
news:3a7a33e4...@news.pacifier.com...
GrapeApe
>('68).
Except we were sort of working on the thesis that he was chewing the scenery
BEFORE the mid sixties, at least a decade back, such as The Big Knife (1955).
Sadie Mae
> >> >>the mid-sixties.
> >> >
> >> >He was chewing the scenery way before then. Not to bad effect always.
> >> >
> >>
> >> His performance as Mr. Joyboy in The Loved One makes that film for me.
> >> Even just rememembering it makes me giggle.
YES!!
and what about MRS.JOYBOY??
oh my god.
Just the thought of HER scenes fucking kill me and I only saw the movie
ONCE over 10 years ago!!
priceless.
Sadie Mae
Wishy13764
the title. Whenever I hear "You can't handle the truth"..ugh!
Vicstanley
CleV
>Overacting = William Hurt
In which film? I would have said the opposite.
Vicstanley
>From: CL...@balJUNKcab.ch (CleV)
>Date: 2/17/01 2:40 PM Central Standard Time
>>Overacting = William Hurt
>
>In which film? I would have said the opposite.
Altered States forever changed the concept of overacting for me.
CleV
>>>Overacting = William Hurt
Never saw that. He seems to be underplaying quite a bit in his more
recent work.
Vicstanley
>>>>Overacting = William Hurt
>
>>>In which film? I would have said the opposite.
>
>>Altered States forever changed the concept of overacting for me.
>
>Never saw that. He seems to be underplaying quite a bit in his more
>recent work.
He's all worn out from chewing up scenery for 25 years.
John Harkness
For a Ken Russell film and a Paddy Chayefsky screenplay, Hurt's
performance qualifies as underacting.
John Harkness
Kevin FilmNutBoy
William Hurt a scenery chewer?
Reminds me of the game we played back in elementary school -- "opposite day" --
where the truth is the opposite of what you say. This HAS to be the
explanation.
--Kevin
<plonk>
Lelia Loban
Lithgow delights me as Dr. Lizardo in THE ADVENTURES OF BUCKAROO BANZAI. My
favorite moment: when Lizardo gets his kicks by giving himself electroshock
treatments with shoe polish applicators on his tongue.
"Laugh while you can, monkey-boy!"
Lelia
Please delete NOSPAM from my address to reply by e-mail.
Steve Oldham
wrote:
>Sometimes chewing the scenery is exactly the right approach to the role.
Jon Voight in 'Anaconda'. Without Voight's scenery gnoshing this one
would be a complete waste of time.
Steve
Vicstanley
>
>Reminds me of the game we played back in elementary school -- "opposite day"
explanation.
Balderdash! I maintain that William Hurt is to acting what Steven Wright is to
standup comedy! Wright stole his entire act from the bogus Gallagher.
Seriously, I stand corrected in that Hurt's raging overacting was eventually
refined and enhanced by a distinctive element of subtlety. Not since Glen
"Divine" Milstead has one portrayed an imprisoned drag queen with such
restraint. I still stay that watching Altered States is like being nauseous on
the tilt-a-whirl.
The <plonk> thing is such a tired cliche...of course you'll never see this
anyway since you've filtered me.
CleV
>>William Hurt a scenery chewer?
>>Reminds me of the game we played back in elementary school -- "opposite day"
>where the truth is the opposite of what you say. This HAS to be the
>explanation.
>Balderdash! I maintain that William Hurt is to acting what Steven Wright is to
>standup comedy! Wright stole his entire act from the bogus Gallagher.
>Seriously, I stand corrected in that Hurt's raging overacting was eventually
>refined and enhanced by a distinctive element of subtlety. Not since Glen
>"Divine" Milstead has one portrayed an imprisoned drag queen with such
>restraint. I still stay that watching Altered States is like being nauseous on
>the tilt-a-whirl.
Well the latest films of his I've seen were Dark City, Smoke and Lost
in Space and he was basically comatose in all three (but in a good way
...). I do recall a certain raging overacting in Kiss of the
Spiderwoman though.
>The <plonk> thing is such a tired cliche...of course you'll never see this
>anyway since you've filtered me.
It's his sig.
Kevin FilmNutBoy
>>William Hurt a scenery chewer?
>>
>>Reminds me of the game we played back in elementary school -- "opposite day"
>where the truth is the opposite of what you say. This HAS to be the
>explanation.
>
>Balderdash! I maintain that William Hurt is to acting what Steven Wright is
>to
>standup comedy! Wright stole his entire act from the bogus Gallagher.
>
>Seriously, I stand corrected in that Hurt's raging overacting was eventually
>refined and enhanced by a distinctive element of subtlety. Not since Glen
>"Divine" Milstead has one portrayed an imprisoned drag queen with such
>restraint. I still stay that watching Altered States is like being nauseous
>on
>the tilt-a-whirl.
I haven't seen Altered States in years, so I can't comment more. But Hurt does
seem to me to be the epitome of underacting, at least nowadays. I'll look at
his earlier stuff again.
>The <plonk> thing is such a tired cliche...of course you'll never see this
>anyway since you've filtered me.
I <plonk> everyone, but I never really <plonk> anyone, if you know what I mean.
--Kevin
<plonk>