A Clockwork Orange: which language is the gang slang derived from?
Eric Ivanov
Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
"head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
language. Anyone has a clue?
-eric
Daniel Andre Roy
Well, "drug" and "moloko" are obviously Slavic (they mean 'friend'
and 'milk', respectively); "gulliver", I believe, is cockney for 'head'.
I can't recall any of the other words, because I've only seen the movie
once a long, long time ago, but I remember quite clearly that most of the
slang was Russian.
(And as you know, Eric, "drug" and "moloko" are basically the same
in all the Slavic languages (Ukrainian "druh", South Slavic "mleko", etc.),
so any other word Slavic word expressing such fundamental cultural concepts
as the above will be exactly what you think it to be.)
=========================
Daniel Andre Roy
cc...@freenet.carleton.ca
Hull, Quebec
=========================
Greg Eichelberger
On 6 Sep 1995, Eric Ivanov wrote:
> I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
> Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
> "head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
> all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
> language. Anyone has a clue?
Sort of a Russo-Serbian derivation.
Cheers,
Greg Eichelberger
G. A. Edgar
>I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
>Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
>"head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
>all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
>language. Anyone has a clue?
From Russian. In a US paperback version of the book (from many years
ago) there was a short essay on this, as well as a glossary.
--
Gerald A. Edgar ed...@math.ohio-state.edu
Department of Mathematics
The Ohio State University
Columbus, OH 43210
Brent Haynes
>
> I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
> Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
> "head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
> all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
> language. Anyone has a clue?
>
>
From what I understand the language is a mixed Russian and English (which
would seem to jive with the other posts to your question). It was written
as if the Russian and Anglo super powers had combined in rule of the world
and the language had followed.
Erik G. Johnson
Actually, all of the gang slang comes from the Russian
language--gulliver is from golova(head); glazzies is from glazah(eyes);
viddie is from the verb videt(to see); and so on.
-Erik Johnson-
Sally Waters
at the back giving a glossary of the different words like "droog" that
are used throughout the book - we've found that this REALLY helps alot
with the movie, too.
--Sally
Brent Haynes (hay...@toronto.cbc.ca) wrote:
SBlair1959
certainly close to "horosho" (that isn't it exactly, but the
letters don't precisely match) in Russian, which means "good."
S. Blair
Michael Brooke
: >I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
: >Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
: >"head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
: >all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
: >language. Anyone has a clue?
: From Russian. In a US paperback version of the book (from many years
: ago) there was a short essay on this, as well as a glossary.
And minus the last chapter - Anthony Burgess totally denounced this
version, especially the glossary, which he had nothing to do with (the
book really doesn't need a glossary, even if you don't speak Russian)
Michael
Michael Brooke
: I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
: Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
: "head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
: all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
: language. Anyone has a clue?
Anthony Burgess, who wrote the original novel, decided to fuse English
and Russian, because they were the major languages of the two sides
of the Cold War.
Michael
Jack Heraty
>I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
>Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
>"head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
>all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
>language. Anyone has a clue?
>
> -eric
You're close; it's Russian. Some of the words are like "gulliver" are
anglicized Russian words. Others ("moloko" for milk, "Bog" for "God")
are the actual Russian words.
--
Jack Heraty
The movies are great medicine/
Thank you, Thomas Edison/
For giving us The Best Years of Our Lives
- The Statler Brothers
Michael Brooke
: Many of the editions of the book "A Clockwork Orange" have an appendix
: at the back giving a glossary of the different words like "droog" that
: are used throughout the book - we've found that this REALLY helps alot
: with the movie, too.
: --Sally
Anthony Burgess had major objections to the glossary - first of all
because it wasn't necessary (I don't know Russian, I read the British
edition of the book, and didn't have a problem with it at all),
secondly because it was added by the American publishers without his
knowledge or consent, and thirdly because he said it was inaccurate.
Michael
Jack Heraty
>
>Eric Ivanov (iva...@gr.osf.org) writes:
>> I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
>> Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
>> "head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
>> all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
>> language. Anyone has a clue?
>>
>> -eric
>>
>
>
> Well, "drug" and "moloko" are obviously Slavic (they mean 'friend'
>and 'milk', respectively); "gulliver", I believe, is cockney for 'head'.
Nope. Cockney for head is "loaf". As in "loaf of bread" (rhymes, of
course).
paul ilechko
>: --Sally
>Michael
I have an ancient (prob. late 70's) paperback copy of clockwork orange
published and bought in england, that contains a glossary of nadsat.
The heading to the glossary reads:
words that do not appear to be of Russian origin are distinguished by
asterisks. (For help with the Russian, I am indebted to the kindness
of my colleague Nora Montesinos and a number of correspondents.)
- it's not clear who is quoted here, but it does not seem to be
burgess himself.
lang thompson
much the film draws from that.
Lang Thompson
In <42jqdm$9...@paperboy.osf.org> iva...@gr.osf.org (Eric Ivanov)
Michael Brooke
: I have an ancient (prob. late 70's) paperback copy of clockwork orange
: published and bought in england, that contains a glossary of nadsat.
: The heading to the glossary reads:
: words that do not appear to be of Russian origin are distinguished by
: asterisks. (For help with the Russian, I am indebted to the kindness
: of my colleague Nora Montesinos and a number of correspondents.)
: - it's not clear who is quoted here, but it does not seem to be
: burgess himself.
It was 100% definitely not Burgess, unless he'd radically changed
his mind since he wrote the following:
"As the book was about brainwashing, it was appropriate that the text
itself should be a brainwashing device. The reader would need to be
brainwashed into learning minimal Russian. The novel was to be an
exercise in linguistic programming, with the exoticisms gradually
clarified by context. I would resist to the limit any publisher's
demand that a glossary be provided. A glossary would disrupt the
programme and nullify the brainwashing."
He was unaware of the US edition of the book (which as well as
containing the hated glossary also omitted the final chapter) until he
saw the film and asked Kubrick why he'd felt it necessary to change
the ending. Kubrick said that he thought that that WAS the ending,
because he'd only read the US edition.
For what it's worth, having read the book without the aid of a
glossary and with no knowledge of Russian, I totally agree with
Burgess. It's like reading a novel in a foreign language - if you look
up every word you don't understand, you're going to make very slow
progress and have a very dull time (and probably give up on the book
at a very early stage). If, on the other hand, you place the
unfamiliar words in the context in which they're written, you should
be able to work out what they mean with minimal effort, and should be
better placed to appreciate what the author is doing stylistically.
Michael
Jean rr
>In <42jqdm$9...@paperboy.osf.org> iva...@gr.osf.org (Eric Ivanov)
>writes:
>>
>>I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
>>Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
>>"head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
>>all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
>>language. Anyone has a clue?
>>
I Heard or read somewhere it was based loosely on Romany (language used
by the gypsies) but don't know how true that is - I have never checked
it out and can't remember where I read it.
Jean rr
Michael Brooke
I think we've already established that it's Russian, and I've quoted
original author Anthony Burgess on the subject extensively.
Michael
lang thompson
that i wrote is quoted in the post below. I knew the slang was based
on Russian and the reply i posted stated so and gave a source. How my
named got hooked to a gypsy language will remain one of the mysteries
of the Internet. Spooky.
Lang Thompson
In <950911104...@everyman.demon.co.uk> Michael Brooke
Jimmy Kaml
>
>Jean rr (jean.ru...@stonebow.otago.ac.nz) wrote:
>: wl...@ix.netcom.com (lang thompson ) wrote:
>
>: >In <42jqdm$9...@paperboy.osf.org> iva...@gr.osf.org (Eric Ivanov)
>: >writes:
>: >>
>: >>I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
>: >>Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
>: >>"head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
>: >>all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
>: >>language. Anyone has a clue?
>: >>
>: I Heard or read somewhere it was based loosely on Romany (language used
>: by the gypsies) but don't know how true that is - I have never checked
>: it out and can't remember where I read it.
>
>
>
>I think we've already established that it's Russian, and I've quoted
>original author Anthony Burgess on the subject extensively.
>
>Michael
>
Don't quote me on this, but the Nadsat Language is based on Russian.
Jimmy Kaml................................................South Austin, Texas
Documentation Consultant....................................jimmyk@bga.com
kei...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
>
> Burgess [...] wrote the following:
>
> "As the book was about brainwashing, it was appropriate that the text
> itself should be a brainwashing device. The reader would need to be
> brainwashed into learning minimal Russian. The novel was to be an
> glossary and with no knowledge of Russian, I totally agree with
> Burgess. It's like reading a novel in a foreign language - if you look
> up every word you don't understand, you're going to make very slow
> progress and have a very dull time (and probably give up on the book
> at a very early stage). If, on the other hand, you place the
> unfamiliar words in the context in which they're written, you should
> be able to work out what they mean with minimal effort, and should be
> better placed to appreciate what the author is doing stylistically.
This is an interesting point (taken from a longer, also interesting
post). However, I think that reading the book "naively" will force
you to miss some of the work Burgess is doing. The best example I can
think of is his play on the terms "Horror-Show" and "horoscho" (rough
transliteration). He goes back and forth between them in similar
contexts (generally using both as adjectives describing his gang: "my
little horrow-show droogies"); it is possible to see the phonetic link
between them in this way, and the reader would no doubt begin to infer
some meaning for "horoscho" from this, but the meaning would be the
wrong one. "Horoscho" is Russian for "good" - in setting the term
against "horror-show" Burgess is making a cross-linguistic pun: what
is "good" in Russian is "bad" in English. Also, Alex (the narrator)
clearly uses the term affectionately, perhaps making its English
instantiation an ironic usage, but he uses it to describe unspeakably
vicious people and acts; they are "good" to him only because of his
warped perspective - they are really bad. The tension here is caught
perfectly by the ambiguity of the term; it is ambiguous in identity
(which word is he really saying, the English one or the Russian
one?), ambiguous in meaning ("good" or "bad"?, literal or ironic?),
and ambiguous in perspective (good *from whose point of view*, Alex's
or the reader's?). (This ambiguity is brought to an even more perfect
pitch by the movie, in which it is impossible to tell which of the two
homonyms the character is speaking; in the book the two different
spellings are used in different places, and you may perhaps infer some
shading of meaning from that.)
However, none of this content is available if the reader *doesn't
already know* that "horoscho" is a Russian word and what its meaning
is. Absent that knowledge, the word is just another neologism
Burgess tosses in, which you have to pick up in context. It seems to
be an adjective, it seems to be affectionate, it is used in playful
contrast with "horror-show" which seems derogatory but is also used
approvingly. Nothing more. The precision of the pun and its
implications are entirely lost.
I defer to Burgess's own insistence (as reported by the poster above)
that the book has to be read without a glossary, but I wonder if
Burgess - a very careful writer - is not asking too much of the
reader.
Kevin T. Keith kei...@guvax.georgetown.edu
___________________________________________________________________________
"I do know the difference [between a penis and a rutabaga] - I can't
stand rutabaga." - Emily Kelly, who knows more than she lets on
tim Johns
etc.
And this is an interesting point, too. On the other hand- Bad can mean good in English too, which I think makes both Burgess and Micheal's point.
Mr. GoGo Dancer
>From: pau...@msn.com (paul ilechko)
>Subject: Re: A Clockwork Orange: which language is the gang slang derived from?
>Date: Sat, 09 Sep 1995 22:21:39 GMT
>Michael Brooke <mic...@everyman.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Sally Waters (wat...@news.IntNet.net) wrote:
>>: Many of the editions of the book "A Clockwork Orange" have an appendix
>>: at the back giving a glossary of the different words like "droog" that
>>: are used throughout the book - we've found that this REALLY helps alot
>>: with the movie, too.
>>: --Sally
>>Anthony Burgess had major objections to the glossary - first of all
>>because it wasn't necessary (I don't know Russian, I read the British
>>edition of the book, and didn't have a problem with it at all),
>>secondly because it was added by the American publishers without his
>>knowledge or consent, and thirdly because he said it was inaccurate.
>>Michael
>I have an ancient (prob. late 70's) paperback copy of clockwork orange
>published and bought in england, that contains a glossary of nadsat.
>The heading to the glossary reads:
>words that do not appear to be of Russian origin are distinguished by
>asterisks. (For help with the Russian, I am indebted to the kindness
>of my colleague Nora Montesinos and a number of correspondents.)
>- it's not clear who is quoted here, but it does not seem to be
>burgess himself.
The glossary was written by the guy (can't remember his name, thought)
who wrote the introduction to the book (and I think he said he wrote
the glossary for his own use when he read the book).
jean rr
mihael...@gmail.com
mihael...@gmail.com
trotsky
> Well there were words useb by one of Alexes friends like Noći (night). Which is used by Bosnians, Croats and Serbs. But I am not sure about Russians.
Predrag Petrovic
> I have a question concerning the "code" language used by the gang in A
> Clockwork Orange. Many words (e.g. "droog" for "pal", "gulliver" for
> "head") seemed derived from serbo-croatian. However, I couldn't get
> all of them, so I wondered if this language was derived from another
> language. Anyone has a clue?
Droog (Drug) is definitely Serbian ( serbo-croatian ), but I am not sure about "gulliver" for head.
Bill Anderson
--
Bill Anderson
I am the Mighty Favog
