Difference between Chinese and Japanese Martial arts films (oct)
Kilroy Bass
of them.
There's the fantasy genre: in the same vein as Crouching Tiger Hidden
Dragon, where people fly and exhibit superhuman fighting skills and
fight elongated battles. Examples: Once Upon a Time in China; The
Swordsman.
There's the street fighting genre, where the action uses non-fantasy
but realistic martial arts. Examples: Police Story, Rumble in the
Bronx.
So, what does Japanese Martial arts films have? My only exposure to
Japanese M.A. is "Seven Samurai" where it's a quick cut and slash with
the samurai sword. Not really flashy as wuxia, but quick.
Do Japanese martial arts films have people fly too?
G. M. Watson
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In article <4c3ac3f0.0310...@posting.google.com>,
kilro...@catlover.com (Kilroy Bass) wrote:
If you really think that Rumble in the Bronx displayed "realistic martial
arts", maybe you should just make up your own answer, 'cause you probably
wouldn't like mine.
Ian McDowell
Realism is as realism does, but it's true that RUMBLE and Jackie's
other films with contemporary settings feature styles that are not
only different from those seen in his period pieces like DRUNKEN
MASTER 2, but the gravity-optional ones of the wuxia pian or swordplay
film (which is distinct from and older than the various varieties of
gongfu pian or kung fu film). In this particularly sub-subgenre,
which began with POLICE STORY, Jackie's choreography emphasizes a
mixture of low, kickboxing-derived kicks and Western style punches,
rather than traditional Northern or Southern styles, even the
practical and "street-oriented" ones of something like Wing Chun or
Pai Lum. Of course, there's still the question of what works best _on
film_. It's hard to make the trapping and close-range body punches
Wing Chun cinematic (Sammo Hung does it pretty well in THE PRODIGAL
SON and HEROES TWO, although the conclusion of the former abandons
these techniques for more acrobatic ones). Many of Bruce Lee's
real-life fights began (and ended) with Bruce sliding into his
opponent with a modified fenching lunge, stamping on his instep while
aiming a two-finger jab at his eyes, then firing off a flurry of
close-range body punches.
Albeit in a comic way that's clearly influenced by Harold Lloyd and
Buster Keaton, Jackie's contempory fight scenes also offer a more
"realistic" version of the one-against-many fight that's usually seen
in the genre. Note that Jackie is always on the movie and that he's
doing his best to get away. He's blindingly fast and agile, and his
fights against entire gangs bounce all over the place, with Jackie
such a blur of motion that he never has to battle all his opponents at
once; instead, his retreat becames a series of mini-skirmishes, in
which he deals with two or three thugs and is then in another part of
the room or the street when the rest arrive at the place where he was
just standing. I don't think this would work as well in real life,
but Jackie's physicality makes it surprisingly believable, much more
so than the usual Chuck Norris or Stephen Seagal fight scene, in which
the hero stands there while the bad guys attack him one at a time.
Answering the original question, there is a distinct tradition of
barehanded Japanese martial arts films, but other than Kurosawa's
SANSHURO SUGATA (aka JUDO SAGA), the oldest and most purely Japanese
ones are very hard for gaijin to see today. As August Ragone has
commented elsewhere, there was apparently a 50s and 60s vogue for
"karate movies," some starring Takakura Ken (best known here for THE
YAKUZA and Scott's BLACK RAIN, and the best thing about the latter).
I've not seen any of these, but I can't imagine they'd look anything
like a more recent kung fu movie.
In the 70s, Sonny Chiba (already an action star for over a decade)
started a mini-boom in Japanese karate films that _were_ more like the
Chinese kung fu ones of the decade. Such cross-pollination was only
fair, as Toshiro Mifune's 60s remake of JUDO SAGA was apparently a
huge influence on the first gongfu (as opposed to wuxia) films from
the Shaw Brothers, who sent several of their cinematographers and
directors to study in Japan. But even in Chiba's films you can see a
different and distinctly Japanese approach. There's more emphasis on
the "one hit, one kill" philosophy that's derived from the samurai
genre, and less on the long, involved fights that are typical of the
gongfu pian and can be traced back to Chinese cinema's theatrical
roots in Peking Opera.
Chiba even started his own stunt school, Action Team Nippon. Its
graduates include: Etsuko "Sue" Shiomi, the first really impressive
female Japanese martial arts star (the earlier heroines of LADY
SNOWLBOOD and the CRIMSON BAT series were cool, but looked at
objectively, their swordplay was considerably less convincing than Uma
Thurman's). Hiryoki "Henry" Sanada, who latter became one of Japan's
most versatile stars (he played the psychic ex-husband in RINGU, was
the Fool to Nigel Davenport's Lear for the Royal Shakespeare Company
and is excellent in the recent TWILIGHT SAMURAI). Yukari Oshimi,
perhaps Japan's most impressive female cinematic martial artist,
although she had to go to Hong Kong to briefly shine (and there she
trained Sophia Crawford, the former British barmaid turned stuntwoman
who later did all of Sarah Michelle Geller's fighting on Seasons 2-4
of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, and who puts most of her male peers in
Hollywood to shame). Yasuaki Kurata, who became influential playing
sympathetic Japanese characters in "old school" kung fu films like
NINJA IN THE LION'S DEN, SHAOLIN VS. NINJA and LEGEND OF A FIGHTER,
and who almost stole Jet Li's FIST OF LEGEND as the heroine's wry
uncle (he played Fumikoshi, the founder of Shotokan karate and one of
the few legendary masters who wasn't a thug or criminal in real life)
-- he's also an impressive ass kicker in the climax of the recent Hong
Kong "girls with guns" film SO CLOSE, which just had a short
theatrical run in some cities and should be out on US DVD soon (the
Hong Kong one on the Columbia label is great, but Region 3).
Ironically, most of Chiba's ex-students have been more impressive in
Chinese films than Japanese ones, at least where bare-handed combat is
concerned. This is because, imho, Japanese choreographers and
directors don't bring the same brio to empty-handed fight scenes as
their Hong Kong peers, although nobody can touch them when it comes to
deadly-looking swordplay. I attribute this to the fact that neither
Japan nor any other Asian country has anything like the centuries long
association between Chinese martial arts and the theater. After the
fall of the Shaolin Temple, kung fu masters often took passage on the
red junks that carried Peking Opera performers, joining the
"Brotherhood of River and Lake" that included roving acrobats, fakirs,
musicians, as dancers as well as gamblers and outlaws. This doesn't
mean that Chinese martial arts are actually more effective in the real
world than Japanese or Korean or Thai ones, but that they have an
older performance-based tradition, and they know how to make things
look really good for audiences. It's no accident that Jackie Chan and
Jet Li both began in performance-based traditions (Wushu and Peking
opera). And before you say that Bruce Lee did not, it should be
remembered that his father was a Peking Opera star and that he was a
child actor (and cha-cha dancer!) before he studied Wing Chun with Yip
Man. From the outset, Bruce underststood that onscreen fighting and
the real-life variety were two very different things, and although he
achived mastery in both, he treated them as separate challenges with
separate traditions. Only a very few "real world" martial artists
since Bruce Lee have looked truly great on the screen -- Benny "the
Jet" Urqidez (John Cusack's sensei) and Jackie Chan's bodyguard Ken Lo
come to mind. It's no accident that someone like Michelle Yeoh, a
former ballet dancer, quickly looked better on film than Don "the
Dragon" Wilson, who despite his real-world fighting skill and string
of full-contact victories seems stiff and unspectacular in his films.
And don't get me started on how lunkish and dull most of the Ultimate
Fighting Champions would look in a movie, even though they could
certainly kick Jet Li's or Jackie Chan's ass.
Ollie W. Holmes
>
> Do Japanese martial arts films have people fly too?
Not really, unless you count anime. In any event, the Chinese invented
fantasy, martial arts, and the language, upon which the Japanese
derivatives are based. What is unique to the Japanese cinema are the
yakuza, which are distinctively different and more violent than the
Chinese triad gangs (at least until the movie Shanghai Grand came
along).
Takashi Miike is one of the directors at the forefront of Japanese
violent cinema, in his attempt to bridge yakuza, triad, martial arts,
and wire (gravity-defying) action. Ichi the Killer defies all
explanation, and combines each of these motifs. Explain to me how it
ended, because I'm still scratching my head.