Wizard of Oz (scene missing?)
Rob Hill
I could swear, while watching the Wizard of Oz as a kid, there was a
scene in which Dorothy is locked in the witch's chamber, she tries
flipping over the hourglass, but the sand runs upwards. Through tears
she cries "it won't turn over! it won't turn over!" Recently I've seen
several different versions of the film (such as the anniversary) and
this scene doesn't appear in any of them. Was I hallucinating as a kid?
What's the story?
Rob
Mike Tobin
Rob, in all the prints of "The Wizard Of Oz" I've seen over the years,
from Technicolor nitrate to laser disc, I've never seen the scene you've
described. But it's an interesting idea!
Mike Tobin
Michael Gebert
In article <63jdie$q5$1...@newsd-121.bryant.webtv.net>, cine...@webtv.net
(Mike Tobin) wrote:
I remember a scene where Dorothy is lying on the bed in black and white,
and she drops the hourglass and it breaks, and then we see her whole
experience in Oz as remembered by her friends, and at the end we learn
that her shoes had the power to take her home all along, and she says
"Rosebud" and click them together. So WHY IS TED TURNER CENSORING THIS
VERSION! Because of the dead stagehand hanging in the forest?
Joe Coughlin
I certainly don't remember the scene, but I checked on DVD copy of WOZ and
it's not there either. I'd be interested to hear if it really existed.
Rob Hill wrote:
--
Joseph Coughlin
coughlin at gain-ny.com
Webmaster:
CoStar Corporation http://www.costar.com/
Wireless Computing http://www.wireless-computing.com/
--------------------------
Catty
Joe Coughlin <coug...@gain-ny.com> wrote:
>I certainly don't remember the scene, but I checked on DVD copy of WOZ and
>it's not there either. I'd be interested to hear if it really existed.
I responded that I remember the scene as well, but after realising
that most, in the thread, don't, I contacted all my siblings. Only two
could remember the scene as well. Hm. Go figure.
Catty
RichBush
The "Ultimate Oz" laser disc has a copy of the continuity script of the film
made from the approximately two hour rough cut of the film. The script
contains a shot-by-shot description and dialogue, including the nearly 20
minutes that would subsequenty be deleted prior to final release of the film.
I couldn't find anything like the scene described. My guess is that the
remembered scene in question may have been in another movie. Time has a way
of playing tricks on the memory.
Catty
rich...@aol.com (RichBush) wrote:
Perhaps, but I don't think so. I can see it in my head right now. She
was standing in middle of the room (I can't really remember whether
she was listening or looking out of the window to look at the flying
monkeys), dashed up to this, whadda call it?, foot chair (?) in front
of this huge sand timer and turned it upside down. Then, (I think) a
close up shot of the sand continuing, regardless the change, and then
a long shot of Dorothy getting really upset, looking over her shoulder
and back to the timer repeatedly while saying It won't turn over (or
something to that effect) and burst into tears or sobs. The whole
scene lasted roughly under half a minute or so.
The reason why I remembered it was (during one of the rare times I
did cared for the film) I was thinking Dorothy, turn it upside down,
you bloody idiot. To my surprise, she does. Or perhaps, I have very
vivid imagination. I don't know. I have to be honest here, I only
noticed the said scene when I thought that. The rest of those times I
had to watch the bloody film, I didn't noticed it.
Hm. Interesting. I'm going to ask everyone I know if they remember as
well. I've just asked my husband if he could remember the scene, but
he couldn't. Then again, he did say, "Oh, yes - that film. That short
jolly fellow was in it, wasn't he?" (I think he was trying to say
Mickey Rooney)
Catty who wonder why she married a non-film freak.
Michael Gebert
In article <879089279.1291.1...@news.demon.co.uk>,
ca...@zen-centaur.demon.co.uk wrote:
> rich...@aol.com (RichBush) wrote:
> >I couldn't find anything like the scene described. My guess is that the
> > remembered scene in question may have been in another movie. Time has a way
> > of playing tricks on the memory.
>
> Perhaps, but I don't think so. I can see it in my head right now.
I have a very explicit memory of an incident from my child that was a
family story. The problem is, one day I realized that my memory has the
incident happening in a house we didn't move into until several years
later.
This sort of thing is very common. And occasionally it gets someone sent
to prison for an incident of child molesting that didn't actually happen.
(No, that isn't what my story is about at all, it has to do with putting
an entire cheese sandwich into the toaster.)
Island House
I could vaguely remember it also.
Catty <ca...@zen-centaur.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<879044313.10050.4...@news.demon.co.uk>...
Chris Dashiell
I don't remember this scene ("It won't turn over.") at
all. Children can confuse later fantasies with memories,
and I do notice that the way Dorothy says, "The hour-
glass is running out!" sounds a similar note. Furthermore,
it seems very unlikely that anyone would cut a scene from
this film at such a late date - after it had started being tele-
vised, and then even less likely that it would never be re-
stored.
BUT - I could be wrong.
Dashiell
Myra Shinkman
I remember that scene quite vividly -- and I remember the camera moving
back until you see that the Wicked Witch is watching Dorothy through a
crystal ball (or something like that).
Myra
Catty <ca...@zen-centaur.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: rich...@aol.com (RichBush) wrote:
: >The "Ultimate Oz" laser disc has a copy of the continuity script of the film
: > made from the approximately two hour rough cut of the film. The script
: > contains a shot-by-shot description and dialogue, including the nearly 20
: > minutes that would subsequenty be deleted prior to final release of the film.
: >I couldn't find anything like the scene described. My guess is that the
: > remembered scene in question may have been in another movie. Time has a way
: > of playing tricks on the memory.
: Perhaps, but I don't think so. I can see it in my head right now. She
: was standing in middle of the room (I can't really remember whether
: she was listening or looking out of the window to look at the flying
: monkeys), dashed up to this, whadda call it?, foot chair (?) in front
: of this huge sand timer and turned it upside down. Then, (I think) a
: close up shot of the sand continuing, regardless the change, and then
: a long shot of Dorothy getting really upset, looking over her shoulder
: and back to the timer repeatedly while saying It won't turn over (or
: something to that effect) and burst into tears or sobs. The whole
: scene lasted roughly under half a minute or so.
: The reason why I remembered it was (during one of the rare times I
: did cared for the film) I was thinking Dorothy, turn it upside down,
: you bloody idiot. To my surprise, she does. Or perhaps, I have very
: vivid imagination. I don't know. I have to be honest here, I only
: noticed the said scene when I thought that. The rest of those times I
: had to watch the bloody film, I didn't noticed it.
: Hm. Interesting. I'm going to ask everyone I know if they remember as
: well. I've just asked my husband if he could remember the scene, but
: he couldn't. Then again, he did say, "Oh, yes - that film. That short
: jolly fellow was in it, wasn't he?" (I think he was trying to say
: Mickey Rooney)
: Catty who wonder why she married a non-film freak.
--
Myra
____________________
Please direct e-mail to "myra [at] primenet [dot] com"
David Kaiser
On Sun, 09 Nov 1997 17:13:12 -0600, mg...@mindspring.com (Michael
Gebert) wrote:
>In article <879089279.1291.1...@news.demon.co.uk>,
>ca...@zen-centaur.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
>> rich...@aol.com (RichBush) wrote:
>> >I couldn't find anything like the scene described. My guess is that the
>> > remembered scene in question may have been in another movie. Time has a way
>> > of playing tricks on the memory.
>>
>> Perhaps, but I don't think so. I can see it in my head right now.
>
>I have a very explicit memory of an incident from my child that was a
>family story. The problem is, one day I realized that my memory has the
>incident happening in a house we didn't move into until several years
>later.
>
>This sort of thing is very common. And occasionally it gets someone sent
>to prison for an incident of child molesting that didn't actually happen.
>(No, that isn't what my story is about at all, it has to do with putting
>an entire cheese sandwich into the toaster.)
I'm going to differ. I don't remember the Oz scene, but
if several completely unconnected people do, there must be some basis
for it. And scenes do disappear from some versions of movies. Months
ago I posted my very vivid memory of some dialogue from Lolita, in the
scene in which Lolita actually seduces Humbert, that is not on the
video version i rememedied. This is not a case where I could have
made it up.
David Kaiser
Rob Hill
RSchm1950 wrote:
> This is probably no help whatsoever, but just in case...
>
> The early 80s Dino De Laurentis(sp?) version of *Flash*Gordon* had a similar
> scene wherein Dale Arden(again, sp?) was in Flash's cell before Flash was to
> be executed. In the cell, an hourglass was used to mark the time Dale had with
> Flash. The sand ran upwards and Dale struggled to turn it over, repeating
> tearfully "It won't turn over!" (or a similar phrase).
>
> [Shrugging] Again, sorry if this is no help or if it seems demeaning or if,
> worst of all, I've just ruined *Flash*Gordon* for those who have not seen it.
>
> RSchm...@aol.com
That's it! That's it! I knew I didn't invent that scene. I saw Flash
Gordon on television when I was but a runt and had forgotten all about
it. How embarrassing though--to mistake Flash Gordon for the Wizard of
Oz. Still, it was a pretty emotional scene. Ah, my quest is over. I can
return to Mount Olympus in peace.
Gratefully
Rob
Michael Gebert
In article <34674f16...@paperboy.ids.net>, Kai...@usnwc.edu (David
Kaiser) wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Nov 1997 17:13:12 -0600, mg...@mindspring.com (Michael
> Gebert) wrote:
>
> I'm going to differ. I don't remember the Oz scene, but
> if several completely unconnected people do, there must be some basis
> for it.
Yeah, and crop circles too.
Nonsense. It is easy to get people to start remembering things,
especially things they have some enthusiasm for. For instance, I could go
over to alt.fan.beatles (just to pick something at random), invent a scene
of some sort from A Hard Day's Night, insist I saw it when the movie first
came out but it's missing from the video version-- and by this time
tomorrow I could have ten message from people who remember it, too.
> And scenes do disappear from some versions of movies. Months
> ago I posted my very vivid memory of some dialogue from Lolita, in the
> scene in which Lolita actually seduces Humbert, that is not on the
> video version i rememedied. This is not a case where I could have
> made it up.
Well, unless rememedying is a whole 'nother process I know nothing about,
I don't see where else you could have gotten it. This is an easy case to
demonstrate that your memory is imagining things, filling in the blanks
(perhaps with things from the novel), since that whole sequence was very
carefully calibrated to the censorial demands of the day. As the
discussion of the film in the book The Dame in the Kimono indicate, the
scene has always ended with the fadeout where it is.
Bustm
No - but you could be remembering a scene from a similar film, a section of the
book, etc. The alleged OZ scene would almost certainly be in the continuity
script - and it isn't. There's a difference between "making something up" and
confusion caused by the distance of time.
RSchm1950
>
>Subject: Wizard of Oz (scene missing?)
>From: Rob Hill <rh...@umich.edu>
>Date: Sun, Nov 2, 1997 16:29 EST
>Message-id: <345CF0...@umich.edu>
>
>I could swear, while watching the Wizard of Oz as a >kid, there was a
>scene in which Dorothy is locked in the witch's >chamber, she tries
>flipping over the hourglass, but the sand runs upwards. >Through tears
>she cries "it won't turn over! it won't turn over!" >Recently I've seen
>several different versions of the film (such as the >anniversary) and
>this scene doesn't appear in any of them. Was I >hallucinating as a kid?
>What's the story?
>
>Rob
>
This is probably no help whatsoever, but just in case...
Diana Ani Stokely
Rob Hill writes:
> I could swear, while watching the Wizard of Oz as a kid, there was a
> scene in which Dorothy is locked in the witch's chamber, she tries
> flipping over the hourglass, but the sand runs upwards. Through tears
> she cries "it won't turn over! it won't turn over!" Recently I've seen
> several different versions of the film (such as the anniversary) and
> this scene doesn't appear in any of them. Was I hallucinating as a kid?
> What's the story?
>
> Rob
Rob, you ain't crazy. And it really grabs my ass how many people
replied to your question with all their 'proofs' based on what is
now in the media, and not on whether they were around to watch the
show in the old days. That scene existed. I hadn't noticed it
was missing from the video versions, but I know I saw it too.
She's watching the sand trickling out, the camera goes back and forth
from the hourglass to Dorothy's rising hysteria. She runs to the
iron-bound door and (doesn't she bang on it with her shoe?), and
still the camera goes back to the hourglass, tension rising, how can
there be anything left in there at all? And, finally in desperation,
she turns the hourglass over, and the sand continues to run, uphill!
The part about the wicked witch observing Dorothy through the crystal
ball, that's still in there. Dorothy is calling out for Auntie Em,
and Auntie Em's face is there, head turning from side to side, calling,
"Dorothy?" The crystal clouds, and in Em's place appears the witch,
mocking Dorothy's cries, "Auntie Em! Auntie Em!" I remembered this as
a particularly cruel moment, where a child is being mocked by a grown-up
for showing fear.
Thanks for bringing up an interesting topic.
- Diana -
Catty
ds...@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Diana Ani Stokely) wrote:
>Rob Hill writes:
>> I could swear, while watching the Wizard of Oz as a kid, there was a
>> scene in which Dorothy is locked in the witch's chamber, she tries
>> flipping over the hourglass, but the sand runs upwards. Through tears
>> she cries "it won't turn over! it won't turn over!" Recently I've seen
>> several different versions of the film (such as the anniversary) and
>> this scene doesn't appear in any of them. Was I hallucinating as a kid?
>> What's the story?
>>
>> Rob
>Rob, you ain't crazy. And it really grabs my ass how many people
>replied to your question with all their 'proofs' based on what is
>now in the media, and not on whether they were around to watch the
>show in the old days. That scene existed. I hadn't noticed it
>was missing from the video versions, but I know I saw it too.
I am not Rob, but *thank you*. For a moment, I thought I was going
crazy.
>She's watching the sand trickling out, the camera goes back and forth
>from the hourglass to Dorothy's rising hysteria. She runs to the
>iron-bound door and (doesn't she bang on it with her shoe?), and
>still the camera goes back to the hourglass, tension rising, how can
>there be anything left in there at all? And, finally in desperation,
>she turns the hourglass over, and the sand continues to run, uphill!
You've described it better than I did. I've forgotten about Dorothy
banging the door with (yes) her shoe. That was the part I wasn't sure
about - whether she was standing in the middle of the room or looking
out of the window. I wasn't sure what she was doing then, but your
description reminded me - she ran from the door.
>The part about the wicked witch observing Dorothy through the crystal
>ball, that's still in there. Dorothy is calling out for Auntie Em,
>and Auntie Em's face is there, head turning from side to side, calling,
>"Dorothy?" The crystal clouds, and in Em's place appears the witch,
>mocking Dorothy's cries, "Auntie Em! Auntie Em!" I remembered this as
>a particularly cruel moment, where a child is being mocked by a grown-up
>for showing fear.
Yes, I agreed that it was particular cruel. Especially when the Witch
laughed, or should I say, crackled? <grins>
Catty
jillst...@gmail.com
Your Name
<https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b755a38b-55a0-407b-ab24-044788d68469>
As for sands running *up*, it is probably just an optical illusion, but
you can't really see much in this clip anyway:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HouZ5GHxlpQ>
bermuda999
> I TOTALLY REMEMBER the same way you do. The witch says to Dorothy, "You have until the sands run up." I know this because I quote it often and people think I'm nuts because they don't know this version, in this reality. I guess you and I can chalk it up to another Mandella Effect that almost drove us crazy, until now. I got your back on this one.
keitho...@gmail.com
I also saw Flash Gordon back in the theater when it came out, and am a huge fan.
Honestly, I always thought the Flash Gordon bit was an homage to Oz, as her delivery was a spot-on Dorothy!
rwhe...@gmail.com
kard...@gmail.com
leno...@yahoo.com
Lenona.