Earl Holliman Gay?
megans
the star bios and a couple of web pages on IMDB and other places.
One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
Am I late to the game and just now discovering that he's gay? I've never
heard mention of such....
And here's a little tidbit: two of the cast of "Giant" went on to play major
roles in William Castle horror films: Carolyn Craig, who played Elizabeth
Taylor's sister, was a star of the original "House on Haunted Hill." And
Judith Evelyn, who played Elizabeth Taylor's mother in "Giant," was the mute
gal in "The Tingler" who enjoys what was billed as the screen's "first
full-color blood bath."!
Megans
--
"Dominick Dunne is the literary intersection of the demimonde and the
demitasse."
--Henry Schleiff, Chairman, Court TV
joe fucillo
"megans" <meg...@drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:1051416300.618262@yasure...
B. Jamm
From: "joe fucillo" joe...@earthlink.net
Date: 4/27/2003 12:28 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <DTJqa.42230$ey1.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
I doubt that.I think old Earl just likes to play the field. <<
C'mon. No one liked to play the field more than Warren Beatty and
even he got married eventually. Even if Earl played the field,
there's not even a mention of a kid (out of wedlock) on any of those
websites out there.
The fact that he worked with Angie Dickinson on Police Woman for 4
years but there aren't any rumors that he went out with her proves it
once and for all. ;-)
"megans" <meg...@drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:1051416300.618262@yasure...
Mpoconnor7
>years but there aren't any rumors that he went out with her proves it
>once and for all. ;-)
And she used to date Larry King, which means she doesn't have too many
standards for men.
I'm a self confirmed bachelor, never married, and never had any kids that I've
been made legally aware of. It only means I'm smart enough not to let a woman
tie me down and soak me for alimony or child support and allows me to enjoy my
bachelor playboy lifestyle. The only woman who's ever gonna take my money away
from me does so at a cash register in a Supermarket or Department store.
One would think if Earl Holliman really were gay, that he would have married a
woman at some point just to give the illusion that he wasn't gay, a la Rock
Hudson, who was in a "beard" marriage for a year or so to a secretary at the
movie studio. Isn't that how Hollywood protected gay actors from having the
gay rumors go around about them? Anthony Perkins is another example, and IIRC
Raymond Burr was married at least once.
Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man
"The probability of one person being right increases in a direct porportion to
the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
Sagebrush
the star bios and a couple of web pages on IMDB and other places.
One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
Am I late to the game and just now discovering that he's gay? I've never
heard mention of such....
And here's a little tidbit: two of the cast of "Giant" went on to play major
roles in William Castle horror films: Carolyn Craig, who played Elizabeth
Taylor's sister, was a star of the original "House on Haunted Hill." And
Judith Evelyn, who played Elizabeth Taylor's mother in "Giant," was the mute
gal in "The Tingler" who enjoys what was billed as the screen's "first
full-color blood bath."!
Megans
It's been generally known for years that Earl Holliman is gay.
Sagebrush
DepressdGrl
> the star bios and a couple of web pages on IMDB and other places.
>
> One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
>
> Am I late to the game and just now discovering that he's gay? I've never
> heard mention of such....
>
> And here's a little tidbit: two of the cast of "Giant" went on to play major
> roles in William Castle horror films: Carolyn Craig, who played Elizabeth
> Taylor's sister, was a star of the original "House on Haunted Hill." And
> Judith Evelyn, who played Elizabeth Taylor's mother in "Giant," was the mute
> gal in "The Tingler" who enjoys what was billed as the screen's "first
> full-color blood bath."!
>
> Megans
Yes he is. I'm related to someone (a big name from the past) that
says yes and knew him personally.
Stephen Cooke
On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, B. Jamm wrote:
> From: "joe fucillo" joe...@earthlink.net
> I doubt that.I think old Earl just likes to play the field. <<
>
>
> C'mon. No one liked to play the field more than Warren Beatty and
> even he got married eventually. Even if Earl played the field,
> there's not even a mention of a kid (out of wedlock) on any of those
> websites out there.
>
> The fact that he worked with Angie Dickinson on Police Woman for 4
> years but there aren't any rumors that he went out with her proves it
> once and for all. ;-)
So Pepper wasn't the only one who was going undercover.
swac
Tom Cervo
>gal in "The Tingler" who enjoys what was billed as the screen's "first
>full-color blood bath."!
She was also Miss Lonelyhearts in "Rear Window"--Hitchcock's little homage to
the skill of silent film acting.
And long before that starred on Broadway in "Angel Street" as the wife driven
mad by an insane husband; Ingrid Bergman did the role in "Gaslight".
Wull
I always mixed her up with Judith Andersen
Wull
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Bill
Good Lord! (more later) why do you all care if Holliman was gay or
not? There might be some smirky prurience to these speculations back
when, when he was playing hunky studs or even the male interface with
Angie Dickinson, but so what,now? If you go back to Holliman's years
as a main featured actor, you might as well pick one out of every ten
performers in films--and that's not counting the passing "bi" flings
of otherwise "straight" actors (and actresses). (which also brings up
the usually avoided question: if a gay person has a sexual
relationship [even fathering a child] with a woman, he is still gay;
but if a straight male has a sexual relationship with a man [or
reverse the genders] then he's not straight, but gay. Where's the
logic to THAT?
If a gay actor performs a masculine role well and convincingly, it's
all the more a credit to his (or her) talents as a professional, so
why does it matter? If a gay actor does not--ain't going to mention
names here--then it might be worth noting the miscasting or poor
acting, and perhaps worth the notation--or the "outing"--but
otherwise, so what?
I believe Jesus Christ was also a confirmed bachelor.....(and yes, I
did see Terrance McNally's play, CORPUS CHRISTI).
And yes, also, I fully realize that this group is open to all,
including Rona Barrett and Liz Smith wannabees.....
Bill
"The Sins You Do by two and Two, You Must Pay For, One by One"
Craig Smith
>Good Lord! (more later) why do you all care if Holliman was gay or
>not?
Maybe because this was crossposted to alt.GOSSIP.celebrities,
where actors' sexuality is one of the primary topics of
conversation?
.:. Craig
Dawn Taylor
>Good Lord! (more later) why do you all care if Holliman was gay or
>not?
'Cause it's fun? I like knowing that Andy Garcia was born with a
conjoined twin, and that Sally Kellerman has one of the world's
largest lawn-gnome collections, too.
Okay, I made up the one about Sally Kellerman. But still.
Dawn
Dawn Taylor
wrote:
>
>I'm a self confirmed bachelor, never married, and never had any kids that I've
>been made legally aware of. It only means I'm smart enough not to let a woman
Yeah, It's obviously a *choice*. With an attitude like that, I imagine
you have to beat 'em off with a stick. :-)
Dawn
Mpoconnor7
>>not?
>
>'Cause it's fun? I like knowing that Andy Garcia was born with a
>conjoined twin
Is that true? Never heard that one.
One fascinating urban legend I've heard (but never confirmed) is that actress
and former JFK Jr. girlfriend Daryl Hannah has a prosthetic finger? I heard
some radio DJ's talking about weird celebrity oddities and they mentioned that
she is missing a digit or part of a digit and in movies and public appearances
she wears some sort of fake finger that looks real. In none of her movies have
I ever got a close enough look at her hands to determine if this is true.
how...@brazee.net
On 26-Apr-2003, "megans" <meg...@drizzle.com> wrote:
> One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
There are several reasons for being a confirmed bachelor.
Some of these:
1. He is homosexual.
2. He has low sex drive.
3. He is a loner.
4. He doesn't like women. (this doesn't mean he likes to have sex with
men).
5. Women don't like him.
6. He likes playing the field.
7. He's to anal to live with someone else. (who might move his toothpaste)
8. He's a mother's boy.
9. His best friend is his hand.
10. His sexual tastes are rather bizarre and hard to fulfill.
11. He doesn't want anybody to see him naked.
12. He doesn't like people.
13. Nobody else loves him the way he loves himself.
Your Pal Brian
> There are several reasons for being a confirmed bachelor.
>
> 10. His sexual tastes are rather bizarre and hard to fulfill.
"You know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be." - The Hon.
Rick Santorum
Brian
Big J
news:f427b84e.0304...@posting.google.com:
> jewishpun...@my-deja.com (DepressdGrl) wrote in message
> news:<af234cb1.03042...@posting.google.com>...
>> "megans" <meg...@drizzle.com> wrote in message
>> news:<1051416300.618262@yasure>...
>> > Have been watching Giant tonight on TCM, and I found myself browsing
>> > through the star bios and a couple of web pages on IMDB and other
>> > places.
>> >
>> > One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
>> >
>> > Am I late to the game and just now discovering that he's gay? I've
>> > never heard mention of such....
>> >
>> > And here's a little tidbit: two of the cast of "Giant" went on to
>> > play major roles in William Castle horror films: Carolyn Craig, who
>> > played Elizabeth Taylor's sister, was a star of the original "House
>> > on Haunted Hill." And Judith Evelyn, who played Elizabeth Taylor's
>> > mother in "Giant," was the mute gal in "The Tingler" who enjoys what
>> > was billed as the screen's "first full-color blood bath."!
>> >
>> > Megans
>
>>
>> Yes he is. I'm related to someone (a big name from the past) that
>> says yes and knew him personally.
>
>
> Good Lord! (more later) why do you all care if Holliman was gay or
> not? There might be some smirky prurience to these speculations back
> when, when he was playing hunky studs or even the male interface with
> Angie Dickinson, but so what,now?
<snip self righteous drivel>
If you're going to preach, then have enough brains to see what church you're
in.
You cross-posted to a gossip group. That's what we do. If you don't like
that, then fuck off.
Big J
-----
MartinWolfe83420
Mingo, in The Big Combo. In one scene he's in bed with his lover, Fante (Lee
Van Cleef), cleaning his revolver.
Marty
Opencity
>Raymond Burr was married at least once.
Burr claimed to have been married, but reportedly no one who knew him ever met
his wife. I believe he stated she died in a plane crash, but details on her
life and death are very sketchy.
MJF
"DepressdGrl" <jewishpun...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:af234cb1.03042...@posting.google.com...
> "megans" <meg...@drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:<1051416300.618262@yasure>...
> > Have been watching Giant tonight on TCM, and I found myself browsing
through
> > the star bios and a couple of web pages on IMDB and other places.
> >
> > One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
> >
> > Am I late to the game and just now discovering that he's gay? I've
never
> > heard mention of such....
> >
>
> Yes he is. I'm related to someone (a big name from the past) that
> says yes and knew him personally.
LOL. Oh, well then.... It MUST be true. It cracks me up when someone
writes in to say that I'm related to someone who knows someone who once went
to school with so-and-so, and that makes me an expert! Being related to
someone famous OBVIOUSLY means you're the authority on the subject. That's
funny. But sad, too, if you need to name-drop in order to be part of the
conversation.
BTW, I went to high school with one of the girls from Baywatch, so any
Baywatch related questions should be directed to me. Cuz that makes me an
expert.
MJF
MJF
> On 27 Apr 2003 06:52:31 GMT, mpoco...@aol.comnojunk (Mpoconnor7)
> wrote:
> >
> >I'm a self confirmed bachelor, never married, and never had any kids that
I've
> >been made legally aware of. It only means I'm smart enough not to let a
woman
> >tie me down and soak me for alimony or child support ...
>
who wasn't out to get your money? I bet the ladies just love you.
MJF
ANIM8Rfsk
<< 'Cause it's fun? I like knowing that Andy Garcia was born with a
conjoined twin, and that Sally Kellerman has one of the world's
largest lawn-gnome collections, too. >>
Does she have the removed twin as one of her gnomes?
___________
Don't just put QWest out of business - put the people in charge in jail. Now.
ANIM8Rfsk
<< BTW, I went to high school with one of the girls from Baywatch, so any
Baywatch related questions should be directed to me. Cuz that makes me an
expert. >>
Is it true that some of them are artificially enhanced?
Sara
Well, hey. My brother dated Treat Williams' sister for two years. Can I
get in on this too? :-)
Dawn Taylor
wrote:
>>>Good Lord! (more later) why do you all care if Holliman was gay or
>>>not?
>>
>>'Cause it's fun? I like knowing that Andy Garcia was born with a
>>conjoined twin
>
>Is that true? Never heard that one.
Yep. That one's absolutely true.
Dawn
W. Lydecker
MJF
"ANIM8Rfsk" <anim...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20030427172405...@mb-m01.aol.com...
> << From: "MJF" n...@spam.invalid >>
>
>
> << BTW, I went to high school with one of the girls from Baywatch, so any
> Baywatch related questions should be directed to me. Cuz that makes me an
> expert. >>
>
> Is it true that some of them are artificially enhanced?
>
MJF
MJF
"Sara" <safra...@rr.com> wrote in message news:3EAC53DA...@rr.com...
You are now the official Treat Williams expert! Welcome.
MJF
darr...@aol.com
> Have been watching Giant tonight on TCM, and I found myself browsing through
> the star bios and a couple of web pages on IMDB and other places.
> One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
> Am I late to the game and just now discovering that he's gay? I've never
> heard mention of such....
> And here's a little tidbit: two of the cast of "Giant" went on to play major
> roles in William Castle horror films: Carolyn Craig, who played Elizabeth
> Taylor's sister, was a star of the original "House on Haunted Hill." And
> Judith Evelyn, who played Elizabeth Taylor's mother in "Giant," was the mute
> gal in "The Tingler" who enjoys what was billed as the screen's "first
> full-color blood bath."!> Megans>>
The late, great James Dean would have been able to tell us!eheee Then
again, Dean is said to have been bi-curious. And as Andrew Dice Clay
(b. Silverstein, NYC's very own sweet Jew) once said, "There's no such
thing as bi-sexual. You either suck d*ck or you don't!" ehe -D, NYC
"Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn's got a winning team" - BILLY JOEL
(NY's very own sweet Jew - one of the top 100 selling artists of
all-time)
ANIM8Rfsk
<< any
> Baywatch related questions should be directed to me. Cuz that makes me an
> expert. >>
>
> Is it true that some of them are artificially enhanced?
>
What? Don't they all look natural?
MJF >>
Well, yeah, that's why I asked. Figured the rumours were all silly!
MJF
"ANIM8Rfsk" <anim...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
> << From: "MJF" n...@spam.invalid >>
>
>
> << any
> > Baywatch related questions should be directed to me. Cuz that makes me
an
> > expert. >>
> >
> > Is it true that some of them are artificially enhanced?
> >
> What? Don't they all look natural?
> MJF >>
>
> Well, yeah, that's why I asked. Figured the rumours were all silly!
>
disproportionate to the rest of their bodies. And none of those Baywatch
girls had nose jobs either.
MJF
Philip
"MJF" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:NIXqa.54319$YE2.8...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> BTW, I went to high school with one of the girls from Baywatch, so any
> Baywatch related questions should be directed to me. Cuz that makes me an
> expert.
> MJF
>
And I have two friends who went to school with Liz Hurley and Elle
Macpherson respectively, so send those queries to me.
On the other hand, I would believe just about any claim made about Don Adams
if it comes from Jim Beaver...
Philip
"Opencity" <open...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030427164440...@mb-m18.aol.com...
He actually claimed to have been married three times. The one who died in
the plane crash was supposedly an English actress he met while in Britain,
and who was with Leslie Howard and an acting troupe on a plane that was shot
down by the Germans in 1943, en route from Portugal to Britain. Another
wife died and the second (or third) marriage ended in divorce. A son also
died young from leukaemia or something similar.
I've no idea whether these were fabrications. Or whether Earl bats for the
other side.
Stephen Cooke
On Mon, 28 Apr 2003, MJF wrote:
> "ANIM8Rfsk" <anim...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> > << From: "MJF" n...@spam.invalid >>
> > << BTW, I went to high school with one of the girls from Baywatch, so any
> > Baywatch related questions should be directed to me. Cuz that makes me an
> > expert. >>
> >
> > Is it true that some of them are artificially enhanced?
> >
> What? Don't they all look natural?
Hey, they're life guards. They need their personal floatation devices.
swac
Sysyphus' Sister
> "megans" <meg...@drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<1051416300.618262@yasure>...
>
>>Have been watching Giant tonight on TCM, and I found myself browsing through
>>the star bios and a couple of web pages on IMDB and other places.
>>
>>One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
>>
>>Am I late to the game and just now discovering that he's gay? I've never
>>heard mention of such....
>>
>>And here's a little tidbit: two of the cast of "Giant" went on to play major
>>roles in William Castle horror films: Carolyn Craig, who played Elizabeth
>>Taylor's sister, was a star of the original "House on Haunted Hill." And
>>Judith Evelyn, who played Elizabeth Taylor's mother in "Giant," was the mute
>>gal in "The Tingler" who enjoys what was billed as the screen's "first
>>full-color blood bath."!
>>
>>Megans
>
>
> says yes and knew him personally.
to another big name from the past....nahhhhh nahhhhhh nahhhhhhh
I am,
SYSYPHUS' SISTER
and you're not
Calvin Rice
> Well I worked for someone (another big name from the past) who was lover
> to another big name from the past....nahhhhh nahhhhhh nahhhhhhh
> I am,
> SYSYPHUS' SISTER
> and you're not
I am in reality Monarch of a small European country, and the things I could
tell you about British and European Royalty would make your hair stand on end,
and I know because it all happened in my bedrooms, in my Palace, and in the
Grand Hotels of the world, and even in some of the lesser hotels, such as the
Plaza in New York.
-cr
Jim
> LOL. Oh, well then.... It MUST be true. It cracks me up when someone
> writes in to say that I'm related to someone who knows someone who once
> went
> to school with so-and-so, and that makes me an expert! Being related to
> someone famous OBVIOUSLY means you're the authority on the subject.
> That's
> funny. But sad, too, if you need to name-drop in order to be part of the
> conversation.
During the time the infamous gerbil rumor circulated about Richard Gere,
LA's KROQ DJ's decided to have a call-in. They wanted everybody who "knew
somebody who was in the emergency room that night" to call in. Needless to
say, they were flooded with thousands of calls. They concluded that there
must have been about 100,000 people in LA who "knew somebody who was there
that night". Thus do urban legends flourish.
> BTW, I went to high school with one of the girls from Baywatch, so any
> Baywatch related questions should be directed to me. Cuz that makes me an
> expert.
One of the guys from Baywatch was from my old neighborhood...and I don't
know a damned thing about the show other than that.
Jim
You forgot one:
14. microscopic penis
Mpoconnor7
>>>conjoined twin
>>
>>Is that true? Never heard that one.
>
>Yep. That one's absolutely true.
I did a searched on Andy Garcia conjoined twin and sure enough he was; at birth
his conjoined twin was the size of a tennis ball and was removed, and only a
scar on his shoulder remains.
And I did a search on Darryl Hannah finger and apparently there is a website
which corroborates that she is indeed missing a finger (lost it when she was
young) and she wears a prosthetic.
Mpoconnor7
>Mingo, in The Big Combo. In one scene he's in bed with his lover, Fante (Lee
>Van Cleef), cleaning his revolver.
>
I can't imagine Lee Van Cleef in a role like that; I'll bet any money he played
the husband in the relationship. I'll have to check this movie out.
Bluegenie2
<darr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ea3caee5.03042...@posting.google.com...
> "megans" <meg...@drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:<1051416300.618262@yasure>...
>
> > Have been watching Giant tonight on TCM, and I found myself browsing
through
> > the star bios and a couple of web pages on IMDB and other places.
> > One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
How does that mean he was gay??? To me, it just means that he is an
unmarried man who isn't looking for a wife.
Craig Smith
>> > Have been watching Giant tonight on TCM, and I found myself browsing
>through
>> > the star bios and a couple of web pages on IMDB and other places.
>> > One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
>
>How does that mean he was gay??? To me, it just means that he is an
>unmarried man who isn't looking for a wife.
No, "confirmed bachelor" is time-honored code for guys who don't
prefer women. That's why the bio uses the phrase
"self-confessed," implying that (a) there's something wrong with
it, and (b) that such a phrase came from him, and isn't a
statement made by someone else to slander him.
.:. Craig
Bluegenie2
"Craig Smith" <cr...@smithcraft.org> wrote in message
news:5tq3bv8cqc0oftgg5...@4ax.com...
I have never heard that usage of it before. I have a good friend in
california who is a self-proclaimed/confessed bachelor, but he likes women
just fine..........as in he is not gay. Not saying you are wrong or right,
but wonder how long that phrase has been associated with being gay?
Also, would be interested to know when he said that because if it was back
in the time of 'Giant' then it could have meant something entirely different
back then or means different now.
Bob
Bluegenie2 wrote:
At one time, it meant a guy who had so many women that it was ridiculous for him
to settle for just one. That changed, with time.
Bob
Craig Smith
The phrase as a euphemism for homosexual male was used throughout
most of the 20th century, but became very popular in the U.S. in
the 1940s and '50s. For many decades in England, the Times of
London in their obituaries would use the expressions "he never
married" for heterosexual bachelors, and "confirmed bachelor" as
a code for being gay. And according to AsiaWeek, It's still the
term of choice in many Asian countries where English is spoken,
since gay people there face terrible discrimination
(http://pathfinder.com/asiaweek/98/0807/cs1.html).
.:. Craig
Bluegenie2
Thank you Craig, I'll have to inform my friend of that :)
Guess he needs to change his wording.
Kal Alexander
It seems like this 'code' is rather well known. How can it
be of any value?
--
Later
Kal
--
Don't look now, but I think our village
is full of idiots!
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
news:Y3Asa.1219929$HU.1...@news.easynews.com...
The Morse Code was pretty generally known at one time and yet it retained a
certain value.
--
Frank in Seattle
___________
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Craig Smith
>> The phrase as a euphemism for homosexual male was used throughout
>> most of the 20th century, but became very popular in the U.S. in
>> the 1940s and '50s. For many decades in England, the Times of
>> London in their obituaries would use the expressions "he never
>> married" for heterosexual bachelors, and "confirmed bachelor" as
>> a code for being gay. And according to AsiaWeek, It's still the
>> term of choice in many Asian countries where English is spoken,
>> since gay people there face terrible discrimination
>> (http://pathfinder.com/asiaweek/98/0807/cs1.html).
>It seems like this 'code' is rather well known. How can it
>be of any value?
Quite easily, actually. People who understand what it means have
usually travelled in circles where gay people are generally
accepted; and people who don't, usually haven't. So you could
say, "Oh, he's a confirmed bachelor" in mixed company, and those
"in the know" would understand that he's gay, and the rest would
just assume he had no interest in getting married. In either
case, people would stop trying to fix him up with marriageable
young women, and no one's feathers would get ruffled.
I remember once at a job, someone (with other co-workers standing
nearby) asked if I had ever been married. I said no, that I was
a confirmed bachelor, "in the British meaning of that phrase."
The intern who asked was left blissfully in the dark, while
another co-worker applauded delightedly---I was able to come out
to him, but not make it an issue or a topic for gossip among the
interns. So it was very handy code indeed.
.:. Craig
Kal Alexander
>(Imported snip for brevity)
>
> The Morse Code was pretty generally known at one time and yet it
> retained a certain value.
>
>_________________________________
It just seemed counter-productive to hide being gay behind a code
most people seem to realize is code for being gay. Apparently there
are some who don't know it, though. I knew the phrase carried the
possible connotation, but I didn't know it was widely used.
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
[deletions]
> It just seemed counter-productive to hide being gay behind a code
> most people seem to realize is code for being gay. Apparently there
> are some who don't know it, though. I knew the phrase carried the
> possible connotation, but I didn't know it was widely used.
>
Code words are strictly quaint. "Gay" started as a code word, but it's now
the term of choice in general use. Other code words and symbols -- friend of
Dorothy, lavender, pink triangles, rainbows, camping it up, lambdas, etc. --
are themselves camp. The gay world is no longer an underworld and has
precious little need of a special cant. (Code words are to be differentiated
from slang and cultural references.)
Speaking in modern American terms, the only significant population using the
phrase "confirmed bachelor" to hide gayness is that of editors and
journalists. A lot of newspapers are still often reluctant to be direct
about gayness. Obituary writers, for example, still refer to the lover of a
deceased gay person as a "longtime companion".
Anyone who is still in the closet, and gawd help them, is not going to be
playing word games. They're going to be in full-tilt denial.
Now days the real wielders of code words are the people who hate homosexuals
and homosexuality. They use code words like "choice," "special rights",
"lifestyle", "flaunting", "protecting children", "family", "sexual
preference", "love the sinner, hate the sin", and on and on, to camouflage
their hateful bigotry.
Heynony
> They use code words like "choice," "special rights",
> "lifestyle", "flaunting", "protecting children", "family", "sexual
> preference", "love the sinner, hate the sin", and on and on, to camouflage
> their hateful bigotry.
Absolutely. Any time I hear someone use words like "choice" or
"lifestyle" or "family" I know I'm in the presence of a bigot.
But the biggest giveaway is the word "the." Hitler's favorite word. You
can pick out a right-winger in an instant by that single word.
ANIM8Rfsk
<< Absolutely. Any time I hear someone use words like "choice" or
"lifestyle" or "family" I know I'm in the presence of a bigot. >>
Family?????
Carnak
>
>One declared that "Holliman is a self-confessed confirmed bachelor."
>
>heard mention of such....
>
boyfriend, it was sorta obvious to us...but...so what?
Calvin Rice
> Code words are strictly quaint. "Gay" started as a code word, but it's now
When did it start, actually? Going by the fact that the word 'gay' appears
somewhere in nearly every Broadway musical since Oklahoma! or earlier,
but not being slipped into other forms of entertainment like radio, TV, or the
movies until much later, when did the New York crowd adopt it as a code word?
(from Carousel)
...
So I'm shippin' off to sea,
Where life is gay and free,
And a feller can flip
A hook in the hip of a whale.
Blow high, blow low!
A-whalin' we will go!
We'll go a-whalin', a-sailin' away,
Away we'll go,
Blow me high and low!
...
(C 1945, Oscar Hammerstein II)
-cr
Bob
Kal Alexander wrote:
>
> >
> > The phrase as a euphemism for homosexual male was used throughout
> > most of the 20th century, but became very popular in the U.S. in
> > the 1940s and '50s. For many decades in England, the Times of
> > London in their obituaries would use the expressions "he never
> > married" for heterosexual bachelors, and "confirmed bachelor" as
> > a code for being gay. And according to AsiaWeek, It's still the
> > term of choice in many Asian countries where English is spoken,
> > since gay people there face terrible discrimination
> > (http://pathfinder.com/asiaweek/98/0807/cs1.html).
> >
> > .:. Craig
>
> It seems like this 'code' is rather well known. How can it
> be of any value?
>
>
It prevents lawsuits for defamation of character and libel.
Bob
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
news:22680de.03050...@posting.google.com...
We've kicked this around more than once on r.a.m.p-f. Check the archives for
a discussion about Cary Grant in _Bringing Up Baby_ saying: "Because I just
went gay all of a sudden!"
darr...@aol.com
> news:fQFsa.1234537$yn2.1...@post-03.news.easynews.com...
>
> [deletions]
>
> > It just seemed counter-productive to hide being gay behind a code
> > most people seem to realize is code for being gay. Apparently there
> > are some who don't know it, though. I knew the phrase carried the
> > possible connotation, but I didn't know it was widely used.> >>
> Code words are strictly quaint. "Gay" started as a code word, but it's now
> the term of choice in general use. Other code words and symbols -- friend of
> Dorothy, lavender, pink triangles, rainbows, camping it up, lambdas, etc. --
> are themselves camp. The gay world is no longer an underworld and has
> precious little need of a special cant. (Code words are to be differentiated
> from slang and cultural references.)
My favorite "discreet word" (not anymore!eh) has always been
"FAYGELEH" (pronounced FAY-geh-leh, rhymes with "may bella"). eheee
Yiddish (aka Yinglish, mixture of High German & Hebrew) slang for
homosexual: taken from the German diminutive of Vogel: "bird." Also
used to describe "a girl's name." -D, NYC "I really do not speak
Yiddish - ah, maybe a bisl." (a little) - COLIN POWELL
Bluegenie2
Well I personally do not think that line was referring to anything
homosexual because of when the movie was made. But to be fair I decided to
do a little research on when and how gay came to mean homosexual. Here are
some links I found :)
http://members.tripod.com/~HeteroGirl4GayRights/weekly5.html
http://www.gaymidlands.org/facts.html
http://electrolicious.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=228
http://www.outsports.com/outreach/virginia.htm
(kind of funny)
But it does seem as if 'gay' has been the word of choice for over 40 years.
I would still prefer to think that back in the 40's and 50's when the word
was used in so many movies, that it was meant to mean 'happy or joyful' :)
Plus older children's books had the word 'gay' in them meaning happy. I
know my son used to watch some old tv shows using the word and having it
mean happy. He didn't know any better and announced in McDonalds once that
he was 'so gay', lol. We then informed him what gay means today :)
Dawn Taylor
announced in front of God and everybody:
><< From: Heynony nos...@noway.com >>
>
>
><< Absolutely. Any time I hear someone use words like "choice" or
>"lifestyle" or "family" I know I'm in the presence of a bigot. >>
>
>Family?????
You ... you ... FAMILY MAN.
Nah, just doesn't have the right sting.
Dawn
ANIM8Rfsk
<< > a discussion about Cary Grant in _Bringing Up Baby_ saying: "Because I
just
> went gay all of a sudden!" >>
<< Well I personally do not think that line was referring to anything
homosexual because of when the movie was made. But to be fair I decided to
do a little research on when and how gay came to mean homosexual. Here are
some links I found >>
Also see:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_271b.html
<< But it does seem as if 'gay' has been the word of choice for over 40 years.
>>
"As early as 1637 the Oxford English Dictionary gives one meaning as "addicted
to social pleasures and dissipations. Often euphemistically: Of loose and
immoral life""
Bluegenie2
"ANIM8Rfsk" <anim...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20030504002829...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> << From: "Bluegenie2" blueg...@softhome.net >>
>
>
> << > a discussion about Cary Grant in _Bringing Up Baby_ saying: "Because
I
> just
> > went gay all of a sudden!" >>
>
>
> << Well I personally do not think that line was referring to anything
> homosexual because of when the movie was made. But to be fair I decided
to
> do a little research on when and how gay came to mean homosexual. Here
are
> some links I found >>
>
> Also see:
>
> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_271b.html
>
>
> << But it does seem as if 'gay' has been the word of choice for over 40
years.
> >>
>
> "As early as 1637 the Oxford English Dictionary gives one meaning as
"addicted
> to social pleasures and dissipations. Often euphemistically: Of loose and
> immoral life""
>
meaning and there are others. I still believe that the meaning in the
movies of the 40s and 50s was not that one :)
Calvin Rice
> Well I personally do not think that line was referring to anything
> homosexual because of when the movie was made.
> But it does seem as if 'gay' has been the word of choice for over 40 years.
> I would still prefer to think that back in the 40's and 50's when the word
> was used in so many movies, that it was meant to mean 'happy or joyful' :)
I agree, and that was the meaning in Carousel, but considering how often the
word has appeared in Broadway musicals, I thought it might have been an
ongoing game to put in double entendres that would have their second meanings
intended for gays. Whether Hammerstein was playing such a game, or was simply
naive or in the dark, I don't know.
If I can recall more specific examples, I'll post them. One that comes to
mind is in The Fantasticks (1960), off-Broadway, where the girl exclaims,
"La, how gay" when she is being shown tempting visions, if I remember correctly,
by the Narrator.
My point though, trying to be clear, is that the word always had a primary
innocent meaning that fit the play's plot (I don't remember the word in
movies, so can't comment on them), but also a double meaning meant to
entertain those in the know.
-cr
Jim
> On 03 May 2003 06:42:09 GMT, anim...@aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk)
> announced in front of God and everybody:
>
>><< From: Heynony nos...@noway.com >>
>>
>>
>><< Absolutely. Any time I hear someone use words like "choice" or
>>"lifestyle" or "family" I know I'm in the presence of a bigot. >>
>>
>>Family?????
>
> You ... you ... FAMILY MAN.
Well, there is an equivalent insult that gays fling back at families. They
call them "breeders". But there has to be some confusion about that one now
that many gay couples are adopting children or even parenting via
artificial insemination.
Dawn Taylor
announced in front of God and everybody:
>Dawn Taylor wrote:
>> On 03 May 2003 06:42:09 GMT, anim...@aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk)
>> announced in front of God and everybody:
>>
>>><< From: Heynony nos...@noway.com >>
>>>
>>>
>>><< Absolutely. Any time I hear someone use words like "choice" or
>>>"lifestyle" or "family" I know I'm in the presence of a bigot. >>
>>>
>>>Family?????
>>
>> You ... you ... FAMILY MAN.
>
>Well, there is an equivalent insult that gays fling back at families. They
>call them "breeders". But there has to be some confusion about that one now
>that many gay couples are adopting children or even parenting via
>artificial insemination.
I've never found "breeders" to be especially insulting. I mean, it's
awfully tame compared to some of the stuff that gays ar called. Or
women, for that matter. And well, for a long time it was a fairly
accurate distinction. More or less.
Dawn
Nicholas Dean
"Bob" <chil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3EB27167...@ix.netcom.com...
Damn straight ;) - I remember devoutly het guys being described that way
when I
was a kid in the 60's, but by (at latest) the 80's it was absolutely code
for gay.
I believe though, that "confirmed batchelor" meant exactly that in the old
days
w/o a reason applied to it, either straight or gay (i.e. too many women or
none
at all). Living language y'know - it was sort of a game to figure out the
code back
in the 70s, when I was in Jr. High especially (it seemed to be an
*important* game
then).
--
mndean at pacbell net
Calvin Rice
who lives
with women, but (with a little bit of luck) never marries them, has
not been mentioned.
I know he's fictional, but what can we say about Henry Higgins in
Pygmalion and
My Fair Lady? Did Shaw mean for him, a 'confirmed old bachelor' to be
a closet
gay? Alan Jay Lerner, who changed the ending so that Eliza came back,
assumed
he was heterosexual, apparently. In both plays, Higgins' mother was
well aware
of his fussy ways. Were we supposed to read something into
Pickering's being
a guest in Higgins' house for a while? Shaw was heterosexual, it
appears, but
also extremely liberal-minded for his time. Was he trying to tell us
something?
-cr
Stephen Cooke
You could say the same thing about Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson,
although Watson eventually marries and leaves Baker Street. And the only
woman Holmes ever shows any interest in, or rather "The Woman" is Irene
Adler, with whom he's never actually romatically involved.
Of course Billy Wilder sends all this up in The Private Life of Sherlock
Homes, with varying degrees of success.
swac
Dawn Taylor
<am...@chebucto.ns.ca> announced in front of God and everybody:
(RE: "confirmed bachelor")
>You could say the same thing about Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson,
>although Watson eventually marries and leaves Baker Street. And the only
>woman Holmes ever shows any interest in, or rather "The Woman" is Irene
>Adler, with whom he's never actually romatically involved.
There is, however, Laurie King's excellent Mary Russell books ("The
Beekeeper's Apprentice," "The Moor," etc.) in which the semi-retired
Holmes takes on a brilliant female apprentice and eventually marries
her.
Dawn
M.L.
>> > > Code words are strictly quaint. "Gay" started as a code word, but it's
>> now
>> > > the term of choice in general use. ...
>> We've kicked this around more than once on r.a.m.p-f. Check the archives
>for
>> a discussion about Cary Grant in _Bringing Up Baby_ saying: "Because I
>just
>> went gay all of a sudden!"
>Well I personally do not think that line was referring to anything
>homosexual because of when the movie was made.
The context in which the word was used in Bringing Up Baby (Cary Grant
was dressed in Kate Hepburn's housecoat) left no doubt that "gay"
meant homosexual.
Stephen Cooke
Blasphemy! Well, maybe not, but I don't know if I buy that notion.
Then again, the only non-Doyle books I've enjoyed are Nicholas Meyer's two
Holmes novels (Seven Per-Cent Solution and West End Horror) and John
Gardner's two novels written from Moriarty's perspective.
swac
Dawn Taylor
<am...@chebucto.ns.ca> announced in front of God and everybody:
You ought to give these a try -- they're very, very good. "The
Beekeeper's Apprentice" is the first in the series. There's a nice
review of them on the Bookslut site:
http://www.bookslut.com/columns/1202/mystery2.htm
Dawn
Bob
<dawn...@pacifier.com> wrote:
Why would anyone want to read someone else's take on Doyle's work? What's
the point? Its only fanwank at the end of the day no matter how well its
written.
Bob
Calvin Rice
> Why would anyone want to read someone else's take on Doyle's work? What's
> the point? Its only fanwank at the end of the day no matter how well its
> written.
Exactly, and the same goes for A. Ripley's 'Scarlett', and other sequels
not written by the original authors.
Extending the concept, couldn't the same be said for movies based on the
works of others, when the original works are highly regarded, or extremely
popular?
-cr
maja...@majasoft.net
"Frank R.A.J. Maloney" <fr...@blarg.net> píąe v diskusním příspěvku
news:vb6df1e...@corp.supernews.com...
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