Marx Bros "Horse Feathers" question
Rivergoat
Bailey's singing lesson with Chico. Dialog is in fact lost as Groucho
says "...I'll keep a lamp in the window for my wandering boy...." and
as Connie (Thelma Todd) says something to the effect "..you overcome
me..." her dialog and Chico's response is pretty well destroyed.
I've not seen the now out of print DVD, but is there a version with
these scenes intact? Has the negative been damaged so that a proper
master print can't be made?
Wondering...as this is part of the all time best Marx films.
TIA
Dean Eaton
this whose scene was intact, so they are out there. Unfortunately, the
"wandering boy" line takes place at the tail end of a reel change, which is
often a bad place for something significant to happen.
Why they wouldn't look for the best possible source material for the DVD is
beyond me, unless there's a major re-do in the works.
HF is a great one, though. Groucho's philosophy of higher education remains
relevant to this day. Whatever it is, he's against it: (sounds like a
newsgroup member!).
"Have we got a stadium?"
"Yes!"
"Have we got a college?"
"Yes!"
"Well, we can't support both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college!"
"But Professor - where will the students sleep?"
"Where they always sleep - in the classroom!"
Dean
"Rivergoat" <go...@goathead.com> wrote in message
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Vince Macek
Dean Eaton wrote:
> I remember renting one or two 16mm prints of HF from MCA in the 70's where
> this whose scene was intact, so they are out there. Unfortunately, the
> "wandering boy" line takes place at the tail end of a reel change, which is
> often a bad place for something significant to happen.
>
> Why they wouldn't look for the best possible source material for the DVD is
> beyond me, unless there's a major re-do in the works.
>
> HF is a great one, though. Groucho's philosophy of higher education remains
> relevant to this day. Whatever it is, he's against it: (sounds like a
> newsgroup member!).
>
> "Have we got a stadium?"
>
> "Yes!"
>
> "Have we got a college?"
>
> "Yes!"
>
> "Well, we can't support both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college!"
>
> "But Professor - where will the students sleep?"
>
> "Where they always sleep - in the classroom!"
>
> Dean
Possibly my favorite Marx film - possibly since it was the first one I'd seen,
in college, late at night after a dorm party. Totally blew me away.
Zeppo: "I'm proud to be your son."
Groucho: "You took the words right out of my mouth - I'm ashamed to be your
father!"
VMacek
Your Pal Brian
> HF is a great one, though. Groucho's philosophy of higher education remains
> relevant to this day. Whatever it is, he's against it: (sounds like a
> newsgroup member!).
>
Your proposition may be good
But let's have one thing understood
Whatever it is...
>whack<
I'm against it
And even when you've changed it or condensed it
>whack<
I'm against it.
Anything further father?
Brian
Hal Erickson
between Chico and Thelma Todd goes something like this in the original
print:
THELMA: Baravelli, you overcome me.
CHICO: All-a right, but remember, it was-a your idea!
(Hugging and mauling)
CHICO: (After a stream of faux Italian) Baby, I like-a you. You got-a
something but I dunno what it is.
GROUCHO (peeking from the closet): If he thinks I'm gonna tell him,
he's crazy.
Now my question is, what are the lyrics being sung by the students
in the middle of the opening song "I Always Get My Man."?
They chime in right after Groucho sings "No matter if he's in
Peru/Paducah or Japan/I go ahead alive or dead/I always
get my man.
The close-captioning on the TV print is incomplete, offering only a
snatch or two of the lyrics (But then I've never felt that
closed-captioning is always accurate. Case in point is the MGM musical
BELLS ARE RINGING, in which one phrase in Eddie Foy Jr.'s "A Simple
Little System", which is actually the word "Kentucky", is captioned as
"We're Bookies!")
Sufficiently OT for this newsgroup?
--Hal E
W. Lydecker
Rick
2116.public.lawson.webtv.net:
> I forgot the password.
>
>
I'm-a sorry, but-a you can't get in un-a-less-a you say "swordfish."
--
Rick
There are no problems, only solutions.
At least that's what they used to say to taunt Franz Kafka.
- Anthroslug
Dean Eaton
further?
I married your mother so we could have children. Imagine my disappointment
when you arrived.
Young lady, would you mind standing so I can see the son rise?
Dean
"Your Pal Brian" <brian...@iFreedom.com> wrote in message
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Dean Eaton
Dean
"Rick" <hecu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Rivergoat
wrote:
>"Was that you or the duck? If it was you, I'm going home with the duck!"
One-a-two-a-trei-a-vendi...this-a time we go left endi
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: HF is a great one, though. Groucho's philosophy of higher education remains
: relevant to this day. Whatever it is, he's against it: (sounds like a
: newsgroup member!).
The dean is waxing wroth!
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?"
Brockhurst Pertwee
during a dialogue section and he wants to know what the dialogue is. He
clearly states that he has NOT seen the DVD. Then Dean Eaton
immediately posts and says something like "how they could not use the
best possible source material for the DVD is beyond me" - which means he
clearly hasn't seen the DVD either but is leaping to the INCORRECT
conclusion that that section is problematic on the DVD. Why? It's
perfectly fine. So, why jump to the wrong conclusion and thereby
mislead everyone that there is something wrong with the DVD
presentation.
Dean Eaton
Teacher (pointing at microscope): "Professor, what do you think of this
slide?"
Groucho (looking into microscope): "Well, I'd say he was safe at second, but
it was pretty close."
Dean
<sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
news:avqvfq$p2j$3...@news.iucc.ac.il...
Dean Eaton
"Horse Feathers" is as flawed/ragged in the apartment scene as stated by the
original poster.
2) I know it's the print MCA used, not a DVD defect.
3)I will swear that I have seen both 16mm and 35mm prints of this film that
were in much better shape. Someone else may confirm this for me.
4) I wondered why MCA doesn't do a little digging and try to find better
elements for DVD transfer, rather than use the worn-out materials they've
always used. Or why they don't restore them for a future re-release.
5) Many of the Paramount/Marx Brothers screenplays have been published in
paperback, so "Horse Feathers" may be out there.
Dean
"I
"Brockhurst Pertwee" <brockhurst...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:2842-3E2...@storefull-2315.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Your Pal Brian
> Young lady, would you mind standing so I can see the son rise?
Helloooo old timer!
Brian
Bustm
>
> 4) I wondered why MCA doesn't do a little digging and try to find better
> elements for DVD transfer, rather than use the worn-out materials they've
> always used. Or why they don't restore them for a future re-release.
Why do you ask a question when you already know the answer? They're
clueless, uncaring jackasses, that's why.
I think it's "Animal Crackers" where Harpo drops the check to the ground and
it immediately bounces off the floor; except in the cropped DVD you never
see it hit the floor.
MCA's "Invisible Man" release overdubs new music in two sections; integrity
of the film anyone? (to say nothing of the inappropriate selections).
"All Quiet on the Western Front" - released the prior laser/VHS transfer
instead of the version restored by the Library of Congress.
Three of the horror classics have horrible wows in the soundtrack at
prominent places; could have been easily fixed if they had substituted the
soundtrack from alternate release prints (and I have old tape recordings
from TV broadcast that don't exhibit the sound glitches).
The wrong people are often in the right jobs.
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
news:vchU9.50573$t06.2...@news2.east.cox.net...
[deletions]
> The wrong people are often in the right jobs.
"Fate doesn't always make the right men kings." (I just watched _Prisoner of
Zenda_ twice yesterday.)
--
Frank in Seattle
___________
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Rivergoat
wrote:
>1) I own all the MCA Marx Brothers DVDs, from "Coconuts" to "Duck Soup".
>"Horse Feathers" is as flawed/ragged in the apartment scene as stated by the
>original poster.
OK, then what DVD is Brockhurst referring to if stated that it's
perfectly fine? By the time I knew the Paramount films were on DVD,
they went out of print. A local rental store has the DVD of HF, but
I've not rented it. If it's intact, I would rent it and at least roll
a tape of it for a cleaner version than I already have on tape.
"hi diddle diddle, this time I think we go through the middle..."
Opencity
humor-challenged censors took out anything even vaguely blue.
Hey, someone throw me a lifesaver!
Kay Lhota
>humor-challenged censors took out anything even vaguely blue.
>
>Hey, someone throw me a lifesaver!
>
"Horse Feathers" was released in 1936, and there were cuts made. The MPPDA
production number code on the film indicates that it was it was rereleased,
because an "r" follows the number at the bottom of the credits.
Allen Eyles book on the Marx Brothers blamed MCA for the missing footage, and
said that in the 1950's revivals of the film would sometimes include the
missing footage, sometimes not (one can assume that in the early 1950's older
1932 prints may possibly still have been circulating around in England).
However, MCA/Universal would have received what Paramount handed over to them
when the films were sold, and Paramount was notorious for cutting their
original negatives. The Maurice Chevalier and Jeanette MacDonald classic "Love
Me Tonight" is also missing some of its witty punchlines, and the film footage
is long gone.
I had heard that in the early 1990's Universal did a worldwide search for
better film material on "Horse Feathers" for the video release, but they were
not able to come up with better film footage. Sadly, Reel Four is in very tough
shape. Choppy and grainy like a battered film print rather than a negative; it
looks like it went through a projector a few too many times. According to Allen
Eyles, this scene went on for several minutes after the fade out of what we
see, where Harpo returned to Connie Bailey's (Thelma Todd's) room. Included in
the book is a still from that missing sequence.
One other thing that I may add. In Allen Eyles book, he says that Florinne
McKinney does not appear in the film. She is listed in the credits as "Peggy
Carrington". Well, her speaking part may have been cut down, but Florinne
McKinney is the girl on Zeppo's lap. "Young lady, would you mind standing up so
I can see the son rise?"
--Kay Lhota
JimReid56
>"Horse Feathers" is as flawed/ragged in the apartment scene as stated by the
>original poster.
>
>2) I know it's the print MCA used, not a DVD defect.
>
>3)I will swear that I have seen both 16mm and 35mm prints of this film that
>were in much better shape. Someone else may confirm this for me.
>
>4) I wondered why MCA doesn't do a little digging and try to find better
>elements for DVD transfer, rather than use the worn-out materials they've
>always used. Or why they don't restore them for a future re-release.
>
>5) Many of the Paramount/Marx Brothers screenplays have been published in
>paperback, so "Horse Feathers" may be out there.
I have seen Horse Feathers many times since the late 60s in both 16mm and 35mm.
I gave had every video release on any format. I have an audio tape of the
soundtrack made by me in 1971.
I have never seen a print without the damage in the apartment scene. It's there
in the negative now being used and all known copies. Unless a good condtition
35mm release print from the 30s surfaces, I think this is the version of Horse
Feathers that we are stuck with.
Don West
>>The ragged scene may be the work of post-Production Code snipping, when
>>humor-challenged censors took out anything even vaguely blue.
>>
>>Hey, someone throw me a lifesaver!
>>
>
>"Horse Feathers" was released in 1936, and there were cuts made. The MPPDA
Horse Feathers is from 1932.
Coconuts - 1929
Animal Crackers - 1930
Monkey Business - 1931
Horse Featehrs - 1932
Duck Soup - 1933
A Night At The Opera - 1935
A Day At the Races - 1936
...and all the rest
Don West
(Don West) wrote:
>A Day At the Races - 1936
>
Oops, I got hung up with sequential dates...."A Day At The Races" is
from 1937, but you all knew that anyway, right?
ZVBXRPL....I had that same horse when I got my eyes examined.
Getta your tootise frootsie....
Kay Lhota
>>"Horse Feathers" was released in 1936, and there were cuts made. The MPPDA
>
>Horse Feathers is from 1932.
I'm sorry. I thought I had typed "Horse Feathers was rereleased in 1936." I
must have typoed and missed it before I sent it out.
--Kay