Director Decay Syndrome
Gurmeet
Many of us seem to be rather disappointed at the dearth of "good" movies
coming out of Bollywood. Very few movies have a tight, no nonsense script and
hence most movies fail to keep the viewers attention for the entire 3 hours.
Most of them come apart after the first hour or so if not from the very opening
sequence, and only the most ardent followers of Bollywood (pragmatically
there seems to be very many of these..)manage to sit throughout.
Its the same story..Big Banners..Mundane Movies.
However, if we look at the directors and their debut ventures, there seems to
be no dearth of talent. I am giving some examples to support my point.
N. Chandra: Ankush, Pratighat, Tezaab ..pretty impressive. Started very
small budget and went commercial with Tezaab. But does anyone even remeber
what he has been making since??
Rahul Rawail: Fantastic director..Love Story (not credited to him), Betaab,
Biwi O Biwi (excellent comedy), Arjun (hard hitting action/drama), Dacait
..and then what ?? Nothing worth mentioning ..Mastkalandar, Anjaam etc..
almost feel like throwing up.
Raj Kumar Santoshi: Ghayal, Damini, Andaaz Apna Apna and now what..the
inane Barsaat.
Indra Kumar: Dil, Beta, Raja..there is a downward progression..dont know
why Amitabh seems to be tying up with him?
Kiran Kumar: Of the "Hatya" fame..a very well scripted (or should I say
adapted from "Witness") movie. Next movie - Radha Ka Sangam - anybody
remeber this Govinda-Juhi starrer.
Mukul Anand - Excellent debut with "Aitbaar". Lots of talent but goes
overboard with form and lacks content..Sultanat, Insaaf, Khuda Gawah, Agneepath
and now the much awaited Trimurti. But nothing to beat his debut ..Aitbaar.
Pankaj Parasher - The "Jalwa" guy, Nothing comaparble since. Yes he has a
decent "Piccha Karo" to an extent"Chaal Baaz" but no great shakes.
Mahesh Bhatt - do I even need to show his decay curve.
And even Directors like Subhash Ghai and Yash Chopra seem to be caught in the
rut. Subhash Ghai was at his peak with Karz and Hero. And Yash Chopra was at
his best with Amitabh. He did make good movies but most of them did not do
good business (except for Chandni)..and so we got Parampara and Darr.
And now we have Suraj Barjatya and Mansoor Khan as the two directors still
trying to keep up the good work. Will they keep at it or follow the trend ..
..only time will tell.
The question however is..what happens to the talent. Why the decay. And the
culprit seems to be the Bollywood System..it makes ordinary people out of
exquisite talent. Most of the new breed of directors..you can take up many
more examples..Kundan Shah (Jaane Bhi Do Yaaron), Shekhar Kapoor (Masoom)
...delivered in their debut. And then the system got them. In most cases
one improves with experience..not in Bollywood. There seems to be only one
road..and that leads down.We have to wait and watch what happens to
those who have survived so far ... Mani Ratnam (actually quite new to Bollywood
ashe was making films down south .. and that industry has rules very different
from Bollywood in terms of experimentation), Vidhu Vinod Chopra (probably
wrecked by the 1942 debacle)..any more that I am missing??
Inspite of the evidence, I still hope that Bollywood is going to turn the
corner. One reason for the hope was the big crackdown on the money coming
into Bollywood from the Dawood Ibrahim types after the Bombay blasts..like
other things I attributed the state of Bollywood movies to the "firang" hand
too. However if that change is occuring..its too slow and has yet to pick
up the critical mass. All I want is 1 "good" movie a month...
Gurmeet
Kuntal M Daftary
in giving movies that *they think* ppl want and so dont realize that not only
their tste of ppl's choice is wrong but also their way of thinking that they
shud make what ppl want!! besides, what they do is make a lsit of *all* the
things that "ppl want" and then try to incorporate all that masaalaa in their
movies... no wonder, khichdis r churned out... :((
i wud say, just try and make a good movie in itself... it *will* be
appreciated!!
--
Kuntal M. Daftary http://yake.ecn.purdue.edu/~daftary
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Hardik G Sanghvi
Anotheaddition to this list is Ketan Mehtafirst Mirch Masala, Maya Memsaab,
and Sardar. Now Oh Darling Yeh Hai India!!
-=Sadip=-
Manoj K. Johri
Prakash Mehra: This guy made hit movies like Zanzeer, but ended up making
movies like Jadugar.
Manmohan Desai: He made mega-hits like Amar Akhbar Anthony, Parvarish & Dharamveer.
He made Ganga Jamuna Saraswati during his downfall.
Ramesh Sippy: This mage all time hit Sholay. Now he makes movies like
Zamana Deewana.
I don't know what happens to these people. I guess they loose confidence after
a while.
- Manoj
Gurmeet
maynot be entirely justified. Most the so called "golden boys" of bollywood
(N. Chandra, Rahul Rawail, Mukul Anand, J.P.Dutta, RajKumar Santoshi, Pankaj
Parasher etc etc) have made good movies..but the good movies were their
first or early directorial ventures. A lot of these directors changed their
style after good movies made by them flopped consistently at the box office.
As examples:
Rahul Rawail : Dacait(read somewhere that he had a nervous breakdown after
the movie failed miserably..and it was a good movie). His early ventures are
some of my favorite movies..especially Biwi O Biwi.
J. P. Dutta : Hathyaar's failure was the turning point in his career.
Raj Kapoor : Mera Naam Joker performed so badly at the box office that Raj
Kapoor gave up experimenting. His later movies lacked the sinecerity of
his pre-Mera Naam Joker days.
Yash Chopra : Made excellent movies like Silsila and Mashaal both of which
flopped. But probably the clincher in his life was Lamhe. The two movies
following Lamhe - Parampara (for the Nadiadwala banner) and Darr (home produc
tion). He too lost his guts, his ability to go out on the limb..Darr was his
state of mind too..not simply the name of his production.
Ramesh Sippy : I have no idea what happened to him..did Sagar not perform?? Or
did he just breakdown under the tremendous pressure of his earlier super-duper
smart entertainers (Brahamchari, Andaaz, Seeta aur Geeta, Sholay, Shaan, Sagar,
and the TV serial Buniyyad)..and then Akeyla..good movie but no punch and now
Zamaana Deewana..yikes. Not from Ramesh Sippy...another one bites the dust.
So lot of good directors cracking up as a result of failure of "GOOD" movies
at the box office. Conclusion - maybe the audiences are to blame for the
"Director Decay Syndrome" too.
Gurmeet
Kuntal M Daftary
Arun Natarajan
: Hello Bollywood movie lovers,admirers,fanatics, viewers..
: Gurmeet
Hi ,
The same thoughts have occured to me too recently and I cannot, but,
agree with you more on this syndrome. The phenomenon of big-name
directors making lousy movies these days is very true for Tamil
movies also. The standard has gone down over the last few years and here
are some directors in particular:
1.) Bharathiraja
2.) K. Balachander
3.) Balu Mahendra (to an extent)
and many others whom I don't recall right now.
I remember watching some great Hindi movies(not of the masala type) on TV
soem 7-8 years ago- you know, the award winning Ompuri, Naseerudin Shah ones
.But now, where have those directors who made these movies gone?
Perhaps my taste is now different, but definitely I am not the only out
there who feels this way(as is evident by Gurmeet's posting)
I must add that technically, our Indian movies have come a long
way( cinematography, editing, etc.) ,but
hoping for some sensible changes in the movie industry in terms
of direction, innovative themes & ideas.
Arun
*****************************************************************************
ARUN NATARAJAN Res: (216) 253 8812
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Radha Subramanyam
"Disha" -- a powerful piece on migrant laborers and "Papeeha" on a
pro-environment forest officer. I saw "Disha" -- its very powerful and is much
more similar to Sai's first film, "Sparsh" than to "Chashme Budoor" or
"Katha"...haven't seen "Papeeha" though....
Kuntal Shah
>> : N. Chandra: Ankush, Pratighat, Tezaab ..pretty impressive.
>> Started very : small budget and went commercial with Tezaab.
>> But does anyone even remeber : what he has been making since??
Narsimha was OK....
Then he made Yugandhar; and now Beqabu...
>> : Raj Kumar Santoshi: Ghayal, Damini, Andaaz Apna Apna and now
>> what..the : inane Barsaat.
Still I would like to wait for his "Ghatak" before agreeing...After
all, 3+ and 1- : record is not that bad....
>> : Kiran Kumar: Of the "Hatya" fame..a very well scripted (or
>> should I say : adapted from "Witness") movie. Next movie -
>> Radha Ka Sangam - anybody : remeber this Govinda-Juhi starrer.
It's not Kiran Kumar, but Kirti Kumar, Govinda's brother.
>> : Mukul Anand - Excellent debut with "Aitbaar". Lots of talent
>> but goes : overboard with form and lacks content..Sultanat,
>> Insaaf, Khuda Gawah, Agneepath : and now the much awaited
>> Trimurti. But nothing to beat his debut ..Aitbaar.
I wouldn't agree that Khuda Gawah and Agneepath were not as good as
Aitbaar. Probably they didn't do well compared to expectations because
of big budget and star cast etc... not his fault. And believe me, this
guy is technically very good, like Vidhu.
I would say that wait for some time before writing Vidhu, Mukul and
Santoshi off. Can't say same about others, though.
-Kuntal.
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
(Kuntal Shah) writes:
> Radha> Sai Paranjype, apart from the TV serials "Ados Pados" and
> Radha> something else made "Disha" --
> I am not sure, but I think Ados Pados was directed by Amol
> Palekar. I think another serial running at same time, Chhote
> BaDe ( starring her daughter Vinie ) was directed by Sai
> Paranjpe.
'Ados Pados' was indeed directed by Sai Paranjapye. It is a
Hindi adaptation of 'Sakkhe Shejaari', a hit Marathi play which she
has directed for stage as well.
Ciao,
ND
\________Neeraj Deshmukh__________...@isip.msstate.edu________/
Office: ISIP, Mississippi State University, 434 Simrall, Hardy Road,
Mississippi State MS 39762 Ph: (601) 325-8335 Fax: (601) 325-3149
Home: 100 Logan Drive #D, Starkville MS 39759 Ph: (601) 323-2689
\___http://vlsi.bu.edu/~neeraj___________Disc Space - The Final Frontier...___/
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
In article <4a5igl$o...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, Kuntal M Daftary <daf...@ecn.purdue.edu> writes:
>i think the simple reason to this decay is that directors are now too engrossed
>in giving movies that *they think* ppl want and so dont realize that not only
>their tste of ppl's choice is wrong but also their way of thinking that they
>shud make what ppl want!! besides, what they do is make a lsit of *all* the
>things that "ppl want" and then try to incorporate all that masaalaa in their
>movies... no wonder, khichdis r churned out... :((
>
>i wud say, just try and make a good movie in itself... it *will* be
>appreciated!!
>Kuntal M. Daftary http://yake.ecn.purdue.edu/~daftary
I think fear of failure drives many directors these days. Producers
want a guaranteed return on their investment and following a formula
with all the masala at least draws an initial, whereas a thought
provoking Drohkaal is consigned to box office failure. I would also
agree that pandering to the public's tastes is a recipe for failure.
The public tends to be fickle and their taste changes with the weather,
so to speak. Great directors like Bimal Roy and Mehboob died in poverty
so films are a high risk business and you are only as good as the succe
-ss of your last film.
Expectations also rise after a film's success, and it is understandable
that any director will choose to do something conventional rather than
follow his creativity. Shekhar Kapur once said that the only way to do
something creative is to have a producer who shares your philosophy or
to put up the money yourself. For most producers, film making is about
money and the script must therefore follow the sequence song/fight/song
....
Personally, I feel that when a director puts time and real effort into
doing something original, I will always appreciate it. Perhaps as Kuntal
says, the director should concentrate on just making a good movie rather
than compromising to a "list" of what is desireable for success. In this
respect, I have great admiration for Gulzar and still see some hope. I
have also noticed that this phenomenon is also applicable to English films.
Regards,
Faez
--
Faez Kaiser nasr...@glue.umd.edu
Electrical Engineering http://www.glue.umd.edu/~nasrudin
University of Maryland at College Park
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
Earlier in this thread, somebody mentioned Ramesh Sippy's name
as an example of unfulfilled potential. I recall watching a TV
serial called "Buniyaad" on a visit to Hyderabad and thought it
was quite superb. Ramesh Sippy was the director, and upon my
return home to England, I saw an interview of his on the BBC where
he expressed the opinion that cinema is no longer a medium where
a director can satisfy his creativity.
He said that the influx of black money from the newly rich meant
that people with no background in films, were intent on making films
and often used their family members as director or scriptwriter.
This led to a surge in films in the mid-eighties and onwards where
violence and rape took a nastier turn on the screen and filled most
able directors with a sense of revulsion at the way the industry was
heading. This led to people like him turning to TV and trying to put
something together that had a meaning. Gulzar's superlative "Mirza
Ghalib" is another example of excellence on the small screen. Films
using the context of "Buniyaad" or "Mirza Ghalib" could not be made
on the big screen because their subject matter lacked mass appeal and
were at odds with the trends of the day.
This does not explain Sippy's recent failures, Akayla and Zamana
Deewaana, but at least indicates that he still possesses the ability
to achieve something.
deven b patel
>
>Mukul Anand - Excellent debut with "Aitbaar". Lots of talent but goes
>overboard with form and lacks content..Sultanat, Insaaf, Khuda Gawah, Agneepath
> and now the much awaited Trimurti. But nothing to beat his debut ..Aitbaar.
>
Don't count TRIMURTI in Mukul S.Anand's decay list.
I just saw the making of TRIMURTI(about 30min long) on TvAsia. He has
done a excellent job in direction. He has translated whatever given to
him by SUBHASH GHAI and his writers in the film. The camera work and
technicality is just excellent. If TRIMURTI flops(which I doubt), I don't
think Mukul S.Anand will be blamed for it. Either the music or the story
will be the cause of the flop. The story was discussed in the making of
TRIMURTI and it looks like the audience will like it. But still there are
a lot of movies that became hits without hit songs. And TRIMURTI's music
isn't that bad that someone wouldn't listen to it, especially the song
very good,very bad is a big hit.
Deven B.Patel
Sheharazadhe
> I am not sure, but I think Ados Pados was directed by Amol Palekar. I
> think another serial running at same time, Chhote BaDe ( starring her
> daughter Vinie ) was directed by Sai Paranjpe.
if i m not wrong "ados pados" was by Sai paranjpe
and again chhote bade was not running at the same time, but came much later...
(isnt is the same serial where three sisters befriend a new boy next door??)...
in fact i had heard that the female playing the eldest sister's role was played
by Bhagyashree!( or rather bhagyashree was the one who had played the eldest
sis role :-) )
besides i m also not so sure of vinnie being in chhote bade... i surely
remember vinnie in another serial by sai parajpe (the name eludes me for the
moment) where a NRI family returns from UK to settle back in India... and the
rest of te senti stuff... (maybe the serial was "dishaa"..??)
--
His Royal Highness
Sheharazadhe
(The Prince of Persia)
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
Persia> writes:
> and again chhote bade was not running at the same time, but
> came much later... (isnt is the same serial where three sisters
> befriend a new boy next door??)... in fact i had heard that the
> female playing the eldest sister's role was played by Bhagyashree!(
> or rather bhagyashree was the one who had played the eldest sis role
> :-) )
Your Highness,
I think you are mixing up 'ChhoTe bade' with 'Kachchi
dhoop'. The Amol Palekar reference seems to be the cause of this
confusion. So here's the table of contents so far...
Serial Director Cast
----------------------------------------------------
ADos paDos Sai Paranjapye Ashok Saraaf
Ajit Pal
Vinnie
ChhoTe baDe ---do--- --almost do--
Kachchi dhoop Amol Palekar Bhagyashree &
Rajshree Patwardhan
Shalmoli Palekar
Ashutosh Gowarikar
Salutations,
Kuntal Shah
Radha> Sai Paranjype, apart from the TV serials "Ados Pados" and
Radha> something else made "Disha" --
I am not sure, but I think Ados Pados was directed by Amol Palekar. I
think another serial running at same time, Chhote BaDe ( starring her
daughter Vinie ) was directed by Sai Paranjpe.
-Kuntal.
Sheharazadhe
>Your Highness,
>
> I think you are mixing up 'ChhoTe bade' with 'Kachchi
>dhoop'. The Amol Palekar reference seems to be the cause of this
>confusion. So here's the table of contents so far...
>
> Serial Director Cast
> ----------------------------------------------------
> ADos paDos Sai Paranjapye Ashok Saraaf
> Ajit Pal
> Vinnie
> ChhoTe baDe ---do--- --almost do--
>
> Kachchi dhoop Amol Palekar Bhagyashree &
> Rajshree Patwardhan
> Shalmoli Palekar
> Ashutosh Gowarikar
>
>Salutations,
>
yes! i just realized my mistake and rushed over to correct myself
but it seems my worthy and wise minister has done my job!! :-)
it is really nice to have such hard working ministers as Neeraj
working for you... keeps so much off ur shoulders!! :-)
thanks a lot, neeraj for correcting me!! btw, i m still confused
regarding the NRI family serial i was talking about... any clues, my
wise minister?? was it "dishaa"??
Kuntal Shah
Sheh..> besides i m also not so sure of vinnie being in chhote
Sheh..> bade... i surely remember vinnie in another serial by sai
Sheh..> parajpe (the name eludes me for the moment) where a NRI
Sheh..> family returns from UK to settle back in India... and the
Sheh..> rest of te senti stuff... (maybe the serial was
Sheh..> "dishaa"..??)
I wonder if this Prince of Persia is same as Alexander the Great...
Please disclose your identity.
I remember the serial you are talking about. Vinie has a boyfriend in
London, she does some social work there, her brother is a promising
football player and her father is a bearded man ( not seen in many
serials ). They are a punjabi family ( DDLJ fans, note down ) and have
to come back because Vinie's grandpa is ill ( paralysed ). They have a
big joint family in Delhi.
After coming back, father finds difficulty in establishing business,
Vinie misses her boyfriend and her brother gets frustated because he
can't get into his school's football team because of politics. But they
learn to cope with these things gradually.
I think mother's role was played by Sushma Seth, the lady who played
Rishi's mother in Deewana ( she is quite fit for such roles ).
POP ( Prince of Persia ),
if you remember the story, help me in remembering what happens later.
-Kuntal.
Sheharazadhe
> I wonder if this Prince of Persia is same as Alexander the Great...
> Please disclose your identity.
it is really sorry to note that ur knowledge of history is so poor.
Alexander the Great is not the Prince of Persia... he hails from Greece...
born in Macedonia to be precise... and Persia and Greece are two really very
different countries!! :-)
as far as my identity is concerned... my name is known only to those who seek
me, for within my name lies knowledge for those who seek it and for those who
know how...
------*snip*---------8<----------*snap*-------------8<---------------
<concentrate of the story of the NRI family cut to preserve bandwidth>
> POP ( Prince of Persia ),
please refrain from using such unrespectful abbrv as POP lest His Royal
Hghness takes an offecne to it! I am neither ur POP nor wud like to be addr as
POP. :-)
> if you remember the story, help me in remembering what happens later.
u almost summed up most of the story... as usual, vinnie gets to marry her
boyfriend, the family comes to a decision-taking time about staying in India
and returning, they decide to stay, and the son performs well as a substitute
and is taken in the main team! i hope i am not wrong!!
--
Bharat Rudra
these
informative dicussions.
I don't have enough information to start a discussion. I think some of the
other
topics to discuss are Music directors, Producers, Best movies ever made,
lyricsts ....
Bye for now
SINGH, ASHOK
>Its the same story..Big Banners..Mundane Movies.
>
>However, if we look at the directors and their debut ventures, there seems to
>be no dearth of talent. I am giving some examples to support my point.
>
>Rahul Rawail: Fantastic director..Love Story (not credited to him), Betaab,
> Biwi O Biwi (excellent comedy), Arjun (hard hitting action/drama), Dacait
>...and then what ?? Nothing worth mentioning ..Mastkalandar, Anjaam etc..
ANJAAM was one of the better films in 1994 and it was too bad the film
was delayed because Shahrukh Khan signed this film before BAAZIGAR and DARR
and by the time the film released Shahrukh's role lost its novelty.
>Raj Kumar Santoshi: Ghayal, Damini, Andaaz Apna Apna and now what..the
> inane Barsaat.
BARSAAT was not a project conceived by Rajkumar Santoshi. He only stepped
in to direct after Shekhar Kapoor left. It was already a 3 year old project
and he completed it for Dharmendra's sake. His GHAATAK should be good.
>Indra Kumar: Dil, Beta, Raja..there is a downward progression..dont know
> why Amitabh seems to be tying up with him?
Amitabh said that he has not seen any of Indra Kumar's films but signed
him on to direct because he liked the script given to him. Also Indra Kumar
seems to know what the masses want and his films are huge hits.
>Kiran Kumar: Of the "Hatya" fame..a very well scripted (or should I say
> adapted from "Witness") movie. Next movie - Radha Ka Sangam - anybody
>remeber this Govinda-Juhi starrer.
RADHA KA SANGAM was critically acclaimed and was invited to many film
festivals, because of its off-beat nature (which Kirti and Govinda had
disagreements with) the film flopped.
>Mukul Anand - Excellent debut with "Aitbaar". Lots of talent but goes
>overboard with form and lacks content..Sultanat, Insaaf, Khuda Gawah, Agneepath
> and now the much awaited Trimurti. But nothing to beat his debut ..Aitbaar.
In my opinion AGNEEPATH was his best. HUM had the biggest initial draw in
Indian film history when it released in 1991. KHUDA GAWAH won him the Filmfare
award for best director. TRIMURTI promises to be his best in terms of technical
production values and a team of script writers (including Subhash Ghai) will
help in his weakest area, his script sense (Mukal's own admission).
>Pankaj Parasher - The "Jalwa" guy, Nothing comaparble since. Yes he has a
> decent "Piccha Karo" to an extent"Chaal Baaz" but no great shakes.
Pankuj Parasher hasn't had any release since CHAALBAAZ but his forthcoming
RAJKUMAR looks good and his delayed MERI BIWI KA JAWAB NAHIN with Akshay Kumar
and Sridevi looks promising.
>And even Directors like Subhash Ghai and Yash Chopra seem to be caught in the
>rut. Subhash Ghai was at his peak with Karz and Hero.
Subhash Ghai has been consistently producing all-out entertainers and
his films have been big hits. None of his contemporaries such as Yash Chopra,
Ramesh Sippy or Manmohan Desai could match his consistent track record at the
box-office.
>And Yash Chopra was at his best with Amitabh. He did make good movies but
>most of them did not do good business (except for Chandni)..and so we got
>Parampara and Darr.
I found LAMHE to be one of his best films. DARR was a big hit.
PARAMPARA was not a film for his own banner and was released after KSHATRIYA
which had a similar story and cast with Sunil Dutt, Vinod Khanna & Raveena
Tandon.
>And now we have Suraj Barjatya and Mansoor Khan as the two directors still
>trying to keep up the good work. Will they keep at it or follow the trend ..
>...only time will tell.
>
>The question however is..what happens to the talent. Why the decay. And the
>culprit seems to be the Bollywood System..it makes ordinary people out of
>exquisite talent. Most of the new breed of directors..you can take up many
>more examples..Kundan Shah (Jaane Bhi Do Yaaron),
KABHI HAAN KABHI NA was a good follow-up. The film won him critical
acclaim with the Filmfare critics' award for best film in 1994.
>Shekhar Kapoor (Masoom)>....delivered in their debut. And then the system
>got them.
Shekhar Kapoor's MR. INDIA was a good film and totally different than
MASOOM. Even JOSHILAAY had good production values but the delay in the film
made him lose interest in the project and he walked out of the film. His
BANDIT QUEEN is considered by many to be his best work and reviewers at the
CANNES film festival said he was the best Indian film-maker since Satyajit
Ray.
>In most cases one improves with experience..not in Bollywood. There seems to
>be only one road..and that leads down.We have to wait and watch what happens to
>those who have survived so far ... Mani Ratnam (actually quite new to Bollywood
>ashe was making films down south .. and that industry has rules very different
>from Bollywood in terms of experimentation), Vidhu Vinod Chopra (probably
>wrecked by the 1942 debacle)..any more that I am missing??
Vidhu Vinod Chopra made the film he wanted to and the film was a success
at the box-office (one of the top five hits of 1994). The film was also
critically acclaimed and was invited to many film festivals such as the
Venice, Montreal, & Shanghai film festivals.
Ashok Singh
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
(Renu Thamma) writes:
> This elaborate description fits the TV serial Panchhi which had some
> delightful title music. Wasn't the music director Vanraj Bhatia? Or
> maybe I'm wrong. It probably was the same person who did the title
> track of Udaan. WOW! That was another amazing serial!
Yup, it was Vanraj Bhatia. The music for UDaan was also his,
if I am not mistaken...
> Chhote Bade was the Vinnie Paranjpe-Ajit Pal starrer about the
> unemployed artist and the freaky gal which also had this uncle
> (forgot the actor's name) who had a hobby of reading the names out
> of the Bombay telephone directory.
That was Arvind Joglekar. And one cannot forget "I the
MadanbaaN" Chandu Paarkhi... :-)
> By the way, wasn't Ajit Pal connected to Sai Paranjpe in some
> manner? He's in the other serial of hers too - Isi Bahaane. The one
> about the stoled diamond necklace along with Kiran Thakur Singh,
> Mazhar Khan and Sushmita (Kitty) Mukherjee which had music by Jagjit
> Singh.
"Isi Bahaane" was a Hindi adaptation of P G Wodehouse's 'Leave
it to Psmith' (yes, that P is not a typo) produced by Anand Mahendroo
and directed by Shobha Doctor (or was it the other way round?) --- the
same team that came up with the zany 'Idhar Udhar' with the Pathak
sisters, Ravi Vaswaani and Lilliput. The cast was a fine crew of
characters ---
Saeed Jaffrey as the slightly stupid but lovable Lord
Kiran Thakur Pal Singh Kher as his snootish wife
Anu Agarwal, Ajit Pal, Sushmita Mukherji, Lilliput
and Mazhar Khan as the Hindi version of Psmith.
And as Renu mentions, some wonderful gHazals by Jagjit Singh...
Ciao,
Sheharazadhe
>This elaborate description fits the TV serial Panchhi which had some delightful
>title music. Wasn't the music director Vanraj Bhatia? Or maybe I'm wrong. It
>probably was the same person who did the title track of Udaan. WOW! That was
>another amazing serial!
thanks a lot!! yup, it was panchhi!! and the md was vanraj bhatia, but not too
sure...
>By the way, the Bhagyashree Patwardhan-and-two-more-sisters-along-with-Amol
>Palekar serial was Kachchi Dhoop. Chhote Bade was the Vinnie Paranjpe-Ajit Pal
>starrer about the unemployed artist and the freaky gal which also had this
>uncle (forgot the actor's name) who had a hobby of reading the names out of the
>Bombay telephone directory.
oh yes... i now get it!! the one with the servant who answered the phine with
a typical "haloooooooooooooooooooooo" :-)
boy! did v enjoy his "halooooooooooo"!!
Renu Thamma
>>>>>> "Sheh.." == Sheharazadhe <Prince of Persia> writes:
>
> Sheh..> besides i m also not so sure of vinnie being in chhote
> Sheh..> bade... i surely remember vinnie in another serial by sai
> Sheh..> parajpe (the name eludes me for the moment) where a NRI
> Sheh..> family returns from UK to settle back in India... and the
> Sheh..> rest of te senti stuff... (maybe the serial was
> Sheh..> "dishaa"..??)
>
> London, she does some social work there, her brother is a promising
> football player and her father is a bearded man ( not seen in many
> serials ). They are a punjabi family ( DDLJ fans, note down ) and have
> to come back because Vinie's grandpa is ill ( paralysed ). They have a
> big joint family in Delhi.
>
> After coming back, father finds difficulty in establishing business,
> Vinie misses her boyfriend and her brother gets frustated because he
> can't get into his school's football team because of politics. But they
> learn to cope with these things gradually.
>
> I think mother's role was played by Sushma Seth, the lady who played
> Rishi's mother in Deewana ( she is quite fit for such roles ).
>
> -Kuntal.
This elaborate description fits the TV serial Panchhi which had some delightful
title music. Wasn't the music director Vanraj Bhatia? Or maybe I'm wrong. It
probably was the same person who did the title track of Udaan. WOW! That was
another amazing serial!
By the way, the Bhagyashree Patwardhan-and-two-more-sisters-along-with-Amol
Palekar serial was Kachchi Dhoop. Chhote Bade was the Vinnie Paranjpe-Ajit Pal
starrer about the unemployed artist and the freaky gal which also had this
uncle (forgot the actor's name) who had a hobby of reading the names out of the
Bombay telephone directory.
By the way, wasn't Ajit Pal connected to Sai Paranjpe in some manner? He's in
the other serial of hers too - Isi Bahaane. The one about the stoled diamond
necklace along with Kiran Thakur Singh, Mazhar Khan and Sushmita (Kitty)
Mukherjee which had music by Jagjit Singh.
Brings back wonderful memories..
Renu.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: >>>>> "Renu" == Renu Thamma <rth...@axp2.umkc.edu> writes:
: Renu> This elaborate description fits the TV serial Panchhi which
: Renu> had some delightful title music. Wasn't the music director
: Renu> Vanraj Bhatia? Or maybe I'm wrong. It probably was the same
: Renu> person who did the title track of Udaan. WOW! That was
: Renu> another amazing serial!
: Yes. In Udaan the relationship between father and daughter was
: captured very well.
: Renu> By the way, wasn't Ajit Pal connected to Sai Paranjpe in
: Renu> some manner? He's in the other serial of hers too - Isi
: Renu> Bahaane. The one about the stoled diamond necklace along
: Renu> with Kiran Thakur Singh, Mazhar Khan and Sushmita (Kitty)
: Renu> Mukherjee which had music by Jagjit Singh.
Most importantly, it was based on Leave it to Psmith by PG Wodehouse.
The only serial I think that they tried to base on one of his novels.
And I rather enjoyed Mazhar's interpretation of the Psmith character.
Later,
Ikram.
ps. Ajit Pal as Freddie Threepwood was grreat. Remember the "tension"?
: I don't think this serial was directed by Sai. It was not her "type"
: of serial. Story was much like "Shalimar", which, in turn, was based
: on some English movie. Whole thing looked very "foreign". Still, I
: enjoyed it very much.
: "Isi Bahane" also starred Liliput, who paired with "Kitty" to steal
: the necklace. Sayed Jaffery acted as Mrs. Kher's husband.
: And How could you forget to mention presence of Anu Agrawal in this
: serial ? I think this was her only appearance on small screen.
: -Kuntal.
Kuntal Shah
Renu> This elaborate description fits the TV serial Panchhi which
Renu> had some delightful title music. Wasn't the music director
Renu> Vanraj Bhatia? Or maybe I'm wrong. It probably was the same
Renu> person who did the title track of Udaan. WOW! That was
Renu> another amazing serial!
Yes. In Udaan the relationship between father and daughter was
captured very well.
Renu> By the way, wasn't Ajit Pal connected to Sai Paranjpe in
Renu> some manner? He's in the other serial of hers too - Isi
Renu> Bahaane. The one about the stoled diamond necklace along
Renu> with Kiran Thakur Singh, Mazhar Khan and Sushmita (Kitty)
Renu> Mukherjee which had music by Jagjit Singh.
I don't think this serial was directed by Sai. It was not her "type"
Gurmeet
A few responses to the initial posting have cited commercial successes of
the latest movies of directors as counter examples to the "decay theory".
However commercial success is of no (or very little) relevance in evaluating
the merit of movies.
As an example, lets take up the case of Vidhu Vinod Chopra's 1942 ALS. It
was pointed out that the movie was one of the top five money grossers of last
year. That statistic does in no way expunge the movie of its various faults.
The movie had a lot going for it. An excellent premise..a love story set in
a small hill station in the backdrop of a the Quit India Movement. Outstanding
music by RDB. A big budget. The director could have created wonders with
all these resources. And the outcome..the movie started of very well. The
first half was very enjoyable, though not brilliant. But the film lost it
totally in the second half. The main reason the movie didnot work for me
was the Directors inability to make the transition from the love story
between Anil & Manisha (I forget the screen names) to the larger love for the
country. The integration between the two halves was missing. As a result the
characters created did not evoke the kind of emotional action desired. I like
movies to grip me, whisk me along. I love to be completely manipulated by
the characters and the drama on screen..its what I call complete association
with a movie. 1942-ALS showed some potential in the first half but then
simply couldnt keep it up.
Lets pick up the case of Subhash Ghai ( he has been one of my favorites
since "Hero'). A mega career and truly the Don of Bollywood. He doesnt
have a single flop to his name since the "Krodhi" debacle back in the days
when I was in my 8th Standard. Karz, Vidhata, Hero, Meri Jung, Karma, Raam
Lakhan, Saudagar, Khalnayak. A string of blockbusters. He has to be a master
in predicting human nature and mass appeal. But if you start analysing the
situation more deeply you will realize that Ghai's movies have lost their
"classic" appeal. A big factor for Ghai's success is the "star-power" in his
movies. Karma had Jacki, Anil, Naseer, Poonam and SriDevi heading a cast of
some 30+ megastars. Saudagar was another casting coup..Dilip and Raj Kumar..
with Subhash Ghai directing. Ghai is obviously playing the "Initial Draw"
game. Big stars, catchy music and the Mukta or Sneha Arts Banner..100% winning
record. I agree the result has yielded enjoyable movies. But on a more
critical plane ..Ghai has simply not given us something new in the past few
years. He has simply been descending since his "Hero" days. And the two main
problems with his films..1) His characters lack depth 2) He simply does not
know how to finish what he started..poor endings to mega dramas. And these
were his strongest points in Karz and Hero (remember the superb climax song
of Karz...).
And to sign off for today..when we evaluate directors we can do so either
against the other movies of the times or against the potential held out by
the best movies of the directors. My decison to watch a movie may be based on
selecting the best available today. But for citicism and analysis I prefer
to use "the best" offered by "the best" as the standards.
Gurmeet
Sheharazadhe <\
> Most importantly, it was based on Leave it to Psmith by PG
>Wodehouse.
was it this novel?? i remember reading as a kid PGW titled "pearls,
girls and monty something" which had the story on similar lines!!
>: -Kuntal.
Prem!
> rth...@axp2.umkc.edu (Renu Thamma) writes:
>
> > Chhote Bade was the Vinnie Paranjpe-Ajit Pal starrer about the
> > unemployed artist and the freaky gal which also had this uncle
> > (forgot the actor's name) who had a hobby of reading the names out
> > of the Bombay telephone directory.
>
About this Arvind Joglekar, there was something that had been in
the back of my mind all these days... there is a TV sitcom on ABC
which seems to air on Friday evening in which there is some dude
who plays a school principal (?) who reminds me a lot of AJ. Is it
just me or does anyone else see the resemblence? (sorry about the
vagueness - I don't know the name of the ABC sh^Hitcom.)
> And one cannot forget "I the MadanbaaN" Chandu Paarkhi... :-)
"Hellooooo? Who you? I the Madanbaan, yoooo whoo?" :-)
Wasn't an actress in Chhote Bade also the star of a movie (slightly
silly late 70's flick) called Dulhan Wahi Jo Dulha Man Bhaaye?
She was a telugu actress, I dunno her name, but I heard she went
temporarily blind after that movie (probably from watching it? :-)
and then had some corrective surgery done here in Umreeka.
Prem!
Prem!
> Psmith' (yes, that P is not a typo) produced by Anand Mahendroo and
> directed by Shobha Doctor (or was it the other way round?)
> Kiran Thakur Pal Singh Kher as his snootish wife
They left out the coolest character, Galahad Threepwood. They
should also have left Kiran TPS Kher as Saeed Jaffrey's sister,
instead of turning her into his wife, quite unnecessarily. Still,
not a bad adaptation. PGW's stories are notoriously difficult to
turn into plays and sitcoms without losing the humour. The musical
score was also copied from some other Umreeki show. Isee Bahaane
went downhill very fast though, and was quite a drag towards the
end of the story.
I have always wondered whether the old movie "Chupke Chupke" was
also an adaptaion of one of PGW's Blandings stories. It has all
the right elements including humor, a struggling romance, and
most importantly, impostors! However, I haven't quite been able
to put my finger on which story it is. Hence the doubt. Any ideas?
Prem!
( PGW fans: there is a newsgroup alt.fan.wodehouse, where you )
( will be delighted to find Gussie, Bertie, Gally, )
( Bassett, Beach, etc. and yours truly blotting the )
( escutcheon in no small measure. )
Kuntal Shah
Prem!> Wasn't an actress in Chhote Bade also the star of a
Prem!> movie (slightly silly late 70's flick) called Dulhan Wahi
Prem!> Jo Dulha Man Bhaaye? She was a telugu actress, I dunno her
Prem!> name, but I heard she went temporarily blind after that
Prem!> movie (probably from watching it? :-) and then had some
Prem!> corrective surgery done here in Umreeka.
No.
The actress in DWJPMB ( its Piya, not Dulha ) was Rameshwari. Movie
also starred Madan Puri in a good old man's role, and Premnath's son
(what's his name ?) as hero. Music ( and lyrics too ? ) by Ravindra
Jain. Especially the last song in the movie is my favourite :
"KhushiyaN hi khushiyaN ho daaman maiN jiske
kyoN na khushi se wo deewana ho jaaye...".
About Rameshwari, there was something special about her eyes. She acted
in Sunayana and Asha, and in both she acted as a blind woman ( for some
time ). Also acted in Sharada with Jeetendra. Was ideal choice for social
movies, the J.Omprakash kind.
There was one movie in which she is a simple girl, her husband deserts
her for that, then she becomes modern ( a model, I guess ) and wins her
husband back. ( Looks like Khoon bhari maang and many other movies ).
What was that movie ? Hero was probably Vinod Mehra.
-Kuntal.
Kuntal Shah
Neeraj> That was Arvind Joglekar.
Is it Arvind Joglekar or Arun Joglekar ? I have heard that this
guy was married to Sai ( divorced later ).
-Kuntal.
S.Jagadish
> vagueness - I don't know the name of the ABC sh^Hitcom.)
??? !! Backspace not working I guess !
--
S.Jagadish : SF91...@NTUVAX.NTU.AC.SG
Nanyang Technological University
Die hard Kamal Haasan visiri ... from Kalatthur Kannama to Kurudhi Punal !!
Mayajaal : http://www2.ntu.ac.sg:8000/~sf918168/mayajaal.html
"Api Swarnamayii Lanka, Na Me Lakshmane Rochate" - Ramayana
Subramanya Rao
(Kuntal Shah) wrote:
How does Archana Joglekar fit into this scheme of things? Or is she unrelated?
Is Winnie (or Vinnie) the result of the above marriage?
Prem!
> pr...@alpha2.ebay.sun.com (Prem!) wrote:
> >
> > just me or does anyone else see the resemblence? (sorry about the
> > vagueness - I don't know the name of the ABC sh^Hitcom.)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
No, Jags.
My backspace works fine, except when I want it to not_work. :-)
Tends to make one's writing more expressive, don't you agree?
/\/\
Prem!
\/
Karthikeyan Madathil
Kuntal> There was one movie in which she is a simple girl, her
Kuntal> husband deserts her for that, then she becomes modern ( a
Kuntal> model, I guess ) and wins her husband back. ( Looks like
Kuntal> Khoon bhari maang and many other movies ). What was that
Kuntal> movie ? Hero was probably Vinod Mehra.
I remember a Vinod Mehra / Sarika movie with the same theme. Maybe
there's more than one of them ...
Karthik
--
Mohan Das
> I remember the serial you are talking about. Vinie has a boyfriend in
> London, she does some social work there, her brother is a promising
> football player and her father is a bearded man ( not seen in many
> serials ). They are a punjabi family ( DDLJ fans, note down ) and have
> to come back because Vinie's grandpa is ill ( paralysed ). They have a
> big joint family in Delhi.
I do remember watching first few episodes of this and I found them
quite ok. This was aired sometine in 1990 I believe. Don't remember
the name though. But I remember one line the father tells Vinnie
immediately after they land in India. She starts complaining about
lots of things and he says, "Beti, Hindustan mehandi ke jaisi
hai. Iska rang lagne me der lagti hai, lekin ek bar lag jaye to juda
hona mushkil hai" (It takes time to get used to India, but once you
start liking it, it's difficult to leave it) or something to that
effect.
> I think mother's role was played by Sushma Seth, the lady who played
> Rishi's mother in Deewana ( she is quite fit for such roles ).
She had played the role of daadi in "Hum Log".
mohan
--
--
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: Continuing the discussion on "degeneration of directors" in bollywood..
: Lets pick up the case of Subhash Ghai ( he has been one of my favorites
: A big factor for Ghai's success is the "star-power" in his
: movies. Karma had Jacki, Anil, Naseer, Poonam and SriDevi heading a cast of
: some 30+ megastars.
Major overlook!! You forgot the thespian! He definitely leads the starcast
in this one.
Later,
Ikram.
SINGH, ASHOK
>As an example, lets take up the case of Vidhu Vinod Chopra's 1942 ALS. It
>was pointed out that the movie was one of the top five money grossers of last
>year. That statistic does in no way expunge the movie of its various faults.
Just because 1942.... in your opinion, does not measure up to PARINDA or
Vinod Chopra,s earlier films does not mean that the director is losing
his touch. The film was totally different from his earlier films and his effort
was invited to the Indian film festival in early 95, the Venice , Montreal and
Shanghai film festivals. How many other film-makers get invited to film
festivals with commercial films, not many.
>Lets pick up the case of Subhash Ghai ( he has been one of my favorites
>since "Hero'). A mega career and truly the Don of Bollywood. He doesnt
>have a single flop to his name since the "Krodhi" debacle back in the days
>when I was in my 8th Standard. Karz, Vidhata, Hero, Meri Jung, Karma, Raam
>Lakhan, Saudagar, Khalnayak. A string of blockbusters. He has to be a master
>in predicting human nature and mass appeal. But if you start analysing the
>situation more deeply you will realize that Ghai's movies have lost their
>"classic" appeal.
This is one reason why Ghai decided to take a break from directing and
asked Mukal Anand to direct TRIMURTI. He feels that the break will make
SHIKHAAR his best effort which promises to be different than anything he has
done before. However his direction hasn't suffered, but it has remained at
a consistent level which it is difficult to improve on.
When directors shows signs of brilliance the first few times , it is
surprising and new to viewers. Their later efforts come across as no big
deal. The only way to get around this is to make differnt types of films
of different genres. Mani Ratnam, Rajkumar Santoshi, Vinod Chopra and
Mansoor Khan have done this nicely.
Ashok Singh
Manoj Bhatia
Ramesh Sippy !
Sholay (1970s)
Shaan
Shakti
Saagar
Bhrashtachar
Zamaana Deewana (1995)
I can't beleive my eyes!
The person who makes
'Sholay' can also make Zamaana Deewana !
Who knows his name was there in 'Zamaana Deewana'
for some vested reason !
manoj
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
: In article <95347.14...@psuvm.psu.edu>, Gurmeet <GX...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes...
: >As an example, lets take up the case of Vidhu Vinod Chopra's 1942 ALS. It
: >was pointed out that the movie was one of the top five money grossers of last
: >year. That statistic does in no way expunge the movie of its various faults.
: Just because 1942.... in your opinion, does not measure up to PARINDA or
: Vinod Chopra,s earlier films does not mean that the director is losing
: his touch. The film was totally different from his earlier films and his effort
: was invited to the Indian film festival in early 95, the Venice , Montreal and
: Shanghai film festivals. How many other film-makers get invited to film
: festivals with commercial films, not many.
I accept that Vinod Chopra attempted something different in 1942, but it
cannot be considered close to the level of his earlier films. It lacked
the focus of a Parinda and the ending unravelled into a complete mess.
The invitations to film festivals are probably more indicative of the
dearth of good films generally.
: >Lets pick up the case of Subhash Ghai ( he has been one of my favorites
: >since "Hero'). A mega career and truly the Don of Bollywood. He doesnt
: >have a single flop to his name since the "Krodhi" debacle back in the days
: >when I was in my 8th Standard. Karz, Vidhata, Hero, Meri Jung, Karma, Raam
: >Lakhan, Saudagar, Khalnayak. A string of blockbusters. He has to be a master
: >in predicting human nature and mass appeal. But if you start analysing the
: >situation more deeply you will realize that Ghai's movies have lost their
: >"classic" appeal.
: This is one reason why Ghai decided to take a break from directing and
: asked Mukal Anand to direct TRIMURTI. He feels that the break will make
: SHIKHAAR his best effort which promises to be different than anything he has
: done before. However his direction hasn't suffered, but it has remained at
: a consistent level which it is difficult to improve on.
: When directors shows signs of brilliance the first few times , it is
: surprising and new to viewers. Their later efforts come across as no big
: deal. The only way to get around this is to make differnt types of films
: of different genres. Mani Ratnam, Rajkumar Santoshi, Vinod Chopra and
: Mansoor Khan have done this nicely.
: Ashok Singh
Subhash Ghai is an entertainer above everything else and is capable of
exceptional filmmaking. Personally, I found his last three films very
disappointing especially compared to Hero or Vidhaatha. He appears to have
gone over the top, and his ego appears to be controlling the movie rather
than the script. Khal Nayak just went on and on, and it is hard to
pinpoint exactly what is missing except guess that it is an overall
direction/focus. Perhaps his movies have become too similar, but despite
the hype he creates, he has been unable to deliver for a while.
Regards,
Faez
--
Faez Kaiser nasr...@glue.umd.edu
Electrical Engineering http://www.glue.umd.edu/~nasrudin
University of Maryland at College Park
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
: IMHO the worst decay has been seen in the case of
: Ramesh Sippy !
: manoj
You left out the truly awful "Akayla". I still refuse to believe that Sippy
directed this trash, but simply gave his name to the film. For me, Shakti is
just as unforgettable as Sholay, but what a phenomenal waste of talent
since Shakti.