Filmfare Award winners
Hemant Parikh
Winners & Nominees for 42nd Annual Filmfare Awards 1996
*** The Winners *** AS INDICATED
Best Film
Agni Sakshi
Bandit Queen
Khamoshi : The Musical
Maachis
Raja Hindustani *** The Winner ***
Best Director
Dharmesh Darshan (Raja Hindustani)
Gulzar (Maachis)
Parto Ghosh (Agni Sakshi)
Rajkumar Santoshi (Ghatak)
Shekhar Kapur (Bandit Queen) *** The Winner ***
Best Actor
Aamir Khan (Raja Hindustani) *** The Winner ***
Govinda (Saajan Chale Sasural)
Nana Patekar (Agni Sakshi)
Nana Patekar (Khamoshi : The Musical)
Sunny Deol (Ghatak)
Best Actress
Juhi Chawla (Daraar)
Karisma Kapoor (Raja Hindustani) *** The Winner ***
Manisha Koirala (Khamoshi : The Musical)
Seema Biswas (Bandit Queen)
Tabu (Maachis)
Best Supporting Actor
Amrish Puri (Ghatak) *** The Winner ***
Anupam Kher (Chaahat)
Jackie Shroff (Agni Sakshi)
Om Puri (Maachis)
Salman Khan (Jeet)
Best Supporting Actress
Archana Puransingh (Raja Hindustani)
Helen (Khamoshi : The Musical)
Rekha (Khiladiyon Ka Khiladi)
Seema Biswas (Khamoshi : The Musical) *** The Winner ***
Tabu (Jeet)
Best Artiste in a Comic Role
Johnny Lever (Raja Hindustani)
Kader Khan (Saajan Chale Sasural)
Navneet Nishan (Raja Hindustani)
Satish Kaushik (Saajan Chale Sasural) *** The Winner ***
Shakti Kapoor (Loafer)
Best Artiste in a Villain's Role
Arbaaz Khan (Daraar) *** The Winner ***
Ashish Vidyarthi (Is Raat Ki Subah Nahin)
Danny Denzongpa (Ghatak)
Milind Gunaji (Fareb)
Naseeruddin Shah (Chaahat)
Best Music Director
Jatin-Lalit (Khamoshi : The Musical)
Nadeem-Shravan (Raja Hindustani) *** The Winner ***
Rajesh Roshan (Papa Kahte Hain)
Viju Shah (Tere Mere Sapne)
Vishal Bharadwaj (Maachis)
Best Lyricist
Gulzar (Chhod aaye hum woh galiyan / Maachis)
Javed Akhtar (Ghar se nikalte hi / Papa Kahte Hain) *** The Winner ***
Majrooh Sultanpuri (Baahon ke darmiyan / Khamoshi : The Musical)
Nida Fazli (Chup tum raho / Is Raat Ki Subah Nahin)
Sameer (Pardesi pardesi jaana nahin / Raja Hindustani)
Best Playback Singer (Male)
Abhijeet (Yeh teri aankhen jhuki jhuki / Fareb)
Hariharan / Suresh Wadkar (Chappa chappa charkha chale / Maachis)
Udit Narayan (Ghar se nikalte hi / Papa Kahte Hain)
Udit Narayan (Ho nahin sakta / Diljale)
Udit Narayan (Pardesi pardesi jaana nahin / Raja Hindustani)*** The
Winner ***
Best Playback Singer (Female)
Alka Yagnik (Baahon Ke darmiyan / Khamoshi : The Musical)
Alka Yagnik (Pardesi pardesi jaana nahin / Raja Hindustani)
Alka Yagnik (Poochho zara poochho / Raja Hindustani)
Kavita Krishnamoorthy (Aaj main upar / Khamoshi : The Musical)*** The
Winner ***
Kavita Krishnamoorthy (Iqraar karna mushkil hai / Agni Sakshi)
Special Awards - Govinda
Critics Award - Manisha Koirala
Critics Award - Khamoshi ( FILM)
Life Time Achievement Award - Dharmendra / Mumtaz
Best Story - Gulzar ( Machis)
Best Dialogue - Gulzar ( Machis)
Best Screenplay - Ghatak
A.R. Rahman & Lucky Ali ( Son of Mehmood) Also performed.
The show went on till 1.30-2.00am Monday Morning
Upon receiving the award Amir & Karishma did not give a speech as it
was too long of a show.
These are still accurate but un-official results. Source friends in
Delhi & Mumbai
Happy Reading
Hemant Parikh
Avinash Ramchandani
Hi,
I am stepping out of my Editor role and into the Critic role... maybe a
bit more than a Critic role :).
I'm overall happy with the Filmfare winners, except in two categories,
best music and best singer (male). My congrats go to Aamir and
Karisma... but... I seriously feel that Jatin-Lalit have been cheated
out of two Filmfares for their music in Khamoshi-The Musical this year
and Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge last year. I agree that Rangeela
deserved the award, yet I don't think that Nadeem Shravan deserved it
for Raja Hindustani. A total of eight songs were in the film, 3 of them
were Pardesis, 2 were Aaye Ho Meri Zindagi and one was a take off of
"Kina Sona" from Aisi Bhi Kya Jaldi Hai. Now what is wrong with the
film industry?! Or maybe the Filmfares for that fact! Not to mention
"Tere Ishq Main Nachenge" was a bad number altogether also. So the
total number of decent, "listenable" songs in the movie were 1 (3
Pardesis)+ 1 (Aaye Ho Meri Zindagi)+ 1 (Puchho Zara Puchho)+ 1 (Kitna
Sona)= 4 (which 1 was copied)= 3 original compositions! Now what is
wrong with this picture? Khamoshi-- The Musical has 8 superb original
songs by J-L (forget the 2 by Remo), Bahoon Ke Darmiyan, Gaate The
Pehle, Jana Suno Hum Tum, Aaj Main Upar, Yeh Dil Sun Raha Hai, Saagar
Kinare Bhi Do Dil, and Mausam Ki Sargam Ko. Of which NONE were copied
off anything and NOTHING was repeated twice. Which took more work?
Which was a better album? Now you tell me!
Similarly, N-S got the award for Deewana in 1992 when J-L has the superb
performance in JJWS. But Deewana was far better than Raja Hindustani,
although according to my own views, J-L's JJWS was much better than
Deewana.
Now about the singer... I agree that Udit Narayan should have won, but
not for Pardesi Pardesi, rather for Ghar Se Nikalte Hi. The song was
sung much better, and the song was carried by Udit rather than supported
by Alka Yagnik in Pardesi.
Anyways, those are my views and feelings, no hard feelings... I hope :)
--
Avinash Ramchandani
Assistant Editor INDOlink Magazine
Part of the INDOlink Bollywood Team
* avi...@indolink.com * www.indolink.com *
ss
- Agree 100%!
- I have always believed that Nadeem Shravan do a original number very rarely.
- If you listen to Pakistani albums, N-S can easily be busted by you! Many of their popular tunes are originally from Pakistani groups/singers.
- (Just like South Indian guys can recognise Ilayaraja/Rehman's scores
- palgiarised by Anand Milind quite well, I must say!)
- In comparison, Jatin Lalit have done a decent job since their debut - Just look at their scores in Raju Ban Gaya, JJWS, DDLJ, Khamoshi, Fareb etc. not to mention some nice tunes like 'Tum hi Hamaari ho manzil my love', 'Bin Tere sanam...', 'Return of Jewel Thief' etc.
- Filmfare awards must also be given to other music directors who have 'tried' their best,
- those like Dilip-Sen-Samir-Sen for films like Aaina, Haqeeqat etc. and Anand-Raj-Anand for his effort in Masoom, also Aadesh Shrivastav for Shastra.
- Not sure why and how N-S try and get these awards.
- Maybe it's a Bollywood/Filmfare's 'Andar-Ka-Maamla'?
- :-)
Archana Arkanath
I agree with u completely. Nadeem-Shravan's music sucks..
I haven't heard anything good from them in years.. I guess
everyone knows abt this in the film industry... do u remember
how they made fun of Nadeem-shravan(NS) in Akele Hum Akele Tum ?
They clearly showed that NS hardly has any originals!!!
Infact much better than NS was Vishal Bharadwaj in Maachis... He
definitely had originals that too being a newcomer..
BTW, I didn't know that Jatinb-Lalit didn't get an award for
JJWS.. !!!!! Unbelievable..
whatever...
Ravi Krishna
Archana Arkanath (ar...@ti.com) wrote:
: I agree with u completely. Nadeem-Shravan's music sucks..
: I haven't heard anything good from them in years.. I guess
: everyone knows abt this in the film industry... do u remember
: how they made fun of Nadeem-shravan(NS) in Akele Hum Akele Tum ?
: They clearly showed that NS hardly has any originals!!!
Not that I am supporting NS , but the spoof on NS in AHAT was a joke by
itself , considering Anu malik himself is the biggest copycat in the industry.
Bunty
Hello,
AV>wrong with this picture? Khamoshi-- The Musical has 8 superb
AV>songs by J-L (forget the 2 by Remo), Bahoon Ke Darmiyan, Gaate The
AV>Pehle, Jana Suno Hum Tum, Aaj Main Upar, Yeh Dil Sun Raha Hai, Saagar
AV>Kinare Bhi Do Dil, and Mausam Ki Sargam Ko. Of which NONE were copied
AV>off anything and NOTHING was repeated twice. Which took more work?
AV>Which was a better album? Now you tell me!
OK...Papa Kethe Hain! Although K:TM was excellent (I just bought a CD
of it after my cassette broke:>) PKH had a amazing number of songs...all
which were popular and had great repeat listening value. That quality
is what, for me, deserves the most cedit. The problem with Khamoshi is
that 2 of the 8 songs...Saagar Kinare...Ankhon Mein (Kumar Sanu should
be banned for singing this bad) and even Gaate The Pehle Akele got on my
nerves. Every time I listen to the soundtrack I foward those songs.
Their not bad (like RH's) but just get on you after a while:)
Just my views! Like I ment to say, PKH had all good numbers. I am
still stunned that N-S (who just suck most of the time) walked away with
smiles and the awards! I think you have made some excellent points
about RH's music compared to K:TM.
I think there was a discussion on RMIM that mentioned that One of
Khamoshi's songs was copied. I hope a person reading my message can
ID the song. The song was Jana Sunam... sung amazingly by Udit. I
think it was a copy of a Paul Anka (??) (recalling from memory so its
probably wrong) number....
AV>Similarly, N-S got the award for Deewana in 1992 when J-L has the superb
AV>performance in JJWS. But Deewana was far better than Raja Hindustani,
AV>although according to my own views, J-L's JJWS was much better than
AV>Deewana.
JJWS had one excellent song (I am not going to mention it, EVERYONE
should know it!) and other average to above average songs. My views of
course. I think they were known to be the underdogs and they got
treated that way. Similarly, I feel Deewana had one really popular song
sung pretty well (this is one of the rare times I am praising him:>) by
Kumar Sanu, and other average to above average ones. So it was more or
less based on popularity at the end...hmmm there is something new!!!!
AV>Now about the singer... I agree that Udit Narayan should have won, but
AV>not for Pardesi Pardesi, rather for Ghar Se Nikalte Hi. The song was
AV>sung much better, and the song was carried by Udit rather than supported
AV>by Alka Yagnik in Pardesi.
AV>Anyways, those are my views and feelings, no hard feelings... I hope :)
No way, we need more of these clear thought, and opinionated views.
From this types of posts can we have good discussions. Keep it up,
Avinash!
Avinash Ramchandani
Hi,
I've been overwhelmed by all these responses in favor (or almost) of my
opinion. I am going to do my best in responding to some/all of them.
> OK...Papa Kethe Hain! Although K:TM was excellent (I just bought a CD
> of it after my cassette broke:>) PKH had a amazing number of songs...all
> which were popular and had great repeat listening value. That quality
> is what, for me, deserves the most cedit. The problem with Khamoshi is
> that 2 of the 8 songs...Saagar Kinare...Ankhon Mein (Kumar Sanu should
> be banned for singing this bad) and even Gaate The Pehle Akele got on my
> nerves. Every time I listen to the soundtrack I foward those songs.
> Their not bad (like RH's) but just get on you after a while:)
I agree... Aankhon Main was a mediocre track, and Saagar Kinare does get
on my nerves sometimes. Gaate The Pehle is one of the better songs-- I
mean it is still much better than the FAST song in RH! PKH does have
great numbers. I would have been satisfied if PKH, Maachis or even TMS
would have won. Personally, I think that if N-S was the MD for any of
the other three (N-S could never make an album like Maachis or K:TM...
but... lets say if Gulzar or Bhansali made the music for them and then
they just added it into the cassette to make it sell) they would have
won for sure. As you mentioned, I forward all the songs in Raja
Hindustani except the first Pardesi and Aaye Ho Meri Zingagi!!!
> Just my views! Like I ment to say, PKH had all good numbers. I am
> still stunned that N-S (who just suck most of the time) walked away with
> smiles and the awards! I think you have made some excellent points
> about RH's music compared to K:TM.
>
> I think there was a discussion on RMIM that mentioned that One of
> Khamoshi's songs was copied. I hope a person reading my message can
> ID the song. The song was Jana Sunam... sung amazingly by Udit. I
> think it was a copy of a Paul Anka (??) (recalling from memory so its
> probably wrong) number....
As for the copied point... well it shouldn't be considered copied if we
haven't even heard the song before! If it takes eight months to uncover
the song from which it was copied... I mean, look at songs like Pardesi
which Pakistani music listeners can immediately point out the songs at
which they were copied (derived) from. And songs from Krishna which was
derived from O Mere Sona Re Sona... And how about songs like Dil Maka
Dina or that Auzaar one (Macarena copies)... Everybody has heard the
old songs and even the popular "Kinaa Sona" from Aisi Bhi Kya Jaldi
Hai... Those should be the ones considered copied!
> JJWS had one excellent song (I am not going to mention it, EVERYONE
> should know it!) and other average to above average songs. My views of
> course. I think they were known to be the underdogs and they got
> treated that way.
They still are!! Look at Khamoshi and Fareb (which wasn't even
nominated!) not to mention DDLJ! Hopefully they will stun everybody
with their numerous compositions this year.
> Similarly, I feel Deewana had one really popular song
> sung pretty well (this is one of the rare times I am praising him:>) by
> Kumar Sanu, and other average to above average ones. So it was more or
> less based on popularity at the end...hmmm there is something new!!!!
>
But the Khamoshi songs were more popular when they were released. Raja
Hindustani took a while to pick up because the movie is what caused them
to pick up. They weren't so good on the initial listen.
> No way, we need more of these clear thought, and opinionated views.
> From this types of posts can we have good discussions. Keep it up,
> Avinash!
Now for a reply to Archana..
> Infact much better than NS was Vishal Bharadwaj in Maachis... He
> definitely had originals that too being a newcomer..
Yeah, but you Vishalites still got the RD Burman award! I mean J-L got
nothing... absolutely nothing! Even for JJWS... I can still hear THAT
song over and over and over and over again and not get tired. Try that
with Pardesi!!!
And ss... whoever that is :)
> Not sure why and how N-S try and get these awards.
> Maybe it's a Bollywood/Filmfare's 'Andar-Ka-Maamla'?
Try? They don't.. just copy. They probably had to put up some big
bucks for this one... (if it is an Andar Ka Mamla) But I'm sure they
must've got repensed from RH :).
Actually I have to "like" them for one song in Judaai-- not the title
song, the Amit Kumar song-- "Raat Ko Neend Aati Nahin"... That song is
not a great one. NS don't have anything great, but the choosing of
Kumar is what I praise. Amit is anytime better than Sanu and even the
originally Amit Kumar copier who is now popular than he is now
(Abhijeet), and well.. Udit is great, but hear Salma Pe Dil Aa Gaya--
As we call it, he has thrown Udit in the garbage! If NS continues to
choose Amit, then maybe he will become more popular-- to my pleasure...
Enough of Kumar Sanu. Now a days he is getting to my nerves-- that is
why I don't care for the Virasaat songs too much! I can't stand him
anymore!
SAMIR AHMAD SIDDIQUI
Avinash Ramchandani (avi...@indolink.com) wrote:
: Hi,
: I am stepping out of my Editor role and into the Critic role... maybe a
: bit more than a Critic role :).
(snip)
: Sona)= 4 (which 1 was copied)= 3 original compositions! Now what is
: wrong with this picture? Khamoshi-- The Musical has 8 superb original
: songs by J-L (forget the 2 by Remo), Bahoon Ke Darmiyan, Gaate The
: Pehle, Jana Suno Hum Tum, Aaj Main Upar, Yeh Dil Sun Raha Hai, Saagar
: Kinare Bhi Do Dil, and Mausam Ki Sargam Ko. Of which NONE were copied
: off anything and NOTHING was repeated twice. Which took more work?
: Which was a better album? Now you tell me!
I enjoy Jatin Lalit's music as well, but let's call a spade a
spade. J-L indeed did copy a song in Khamoshi. The 'jana suno hum tum
pe marte' number was a lift of an old Neil Diamond song. Saagar Kinare
Hai Do Dil to Pyase had a few bars from 'Oruvan Oruvan' from AR Rahman's
Muthu. Finally, J-L have copied in another soundtrack, Mr Ashiq. 'Teri
Chahat' is clearly inspired from 'Churake Dil Mera' from Mein Khiladi Tu
Anari. Also another song on this album was a lift of a Yanni
instrumental. N-S did not deserve to win the award, but N-S aren't the
only ones who copy!! J-L should carve out an identity of their own
instead of trying to emulate RD Burman. This was more obvious earlier in
their career.
: Similarly, N-S got the award for Deewana in 1992 when J-L has the superb
: performance in JJWS. But Deewana was far better than Raja Hindustani,
: although according to my own views, J-L's JJWS was much better than
: Deewana.
IMHO, Deewana was a better overall soundtrack than JJWS, but JJWS had the
better individual song, Pehla Nasha.
-Samir
Mo
>.Not to mention
"Tere Ishq Main Nachenge" was a bad number altogether also. <<
Dont agree with you . I think it was the best song of all . Alisha has
done a fantastic job.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Bunty wrote:
> JJWS had one excellent song (I am not going to mention it, EVERYONE
> should know it!) and other average to above average songs. My views of
> course. I think they were known to be the underdogs and they got
> treated that way.
I disagree with you slightly. It had one "all-time great" song. The rest
were excellent songs... :) :)
> Similarly, I feel Deewana had one really popular song
> sung pretty well (this is one of the rare times I am praising him:>) by
> Kumar Sanu, and other average to above average ones. So it was more or
> less based on popularity at the end...hmmm there is something new!!!!
Minor point: Depends on what you call "really popular" surely.
Since you mention KSanu, I assume you are talking about the 'Sochenge
tumheN pyaar' aka 'HeNh HeNh HeNh' number. I think the title track
by Vinod Rathod {& AY} was as popular as this one, if not more...
And a really tough opinion for me to say.
NS were not too bad this year.
Of course, RH had only one good song - Poocho zara poocho, but consider
their other hits this year - Jeet { Had Vinod Rathod's "Yaara O yaara",
Udit's "SaaNsoN ka chalna" (Superb.. loved it} and that Sonu Nigam
song} and AgniSaakshi { KK in O yaara dil lagaana and another nice song}
Definitely a move up in my opinion for NS, whose only other tracks that
I can confess to tolerating are Deewana, Daamini, and Aatish. There
might
be one or two more nice albums, but I doubt it sincerely, afa my liking
it is concerned.
{Note: I mentioned only the primary{imo} singer in the above songs }
Later,
Ikram.
Dilip Parajuli
: I am stepping out of my Editor role and into the Critic role... maybe a
: bit more than a Critic role :).
: I'm overall happy with the Filmfare winners, except in two categories,
: best music and best singer (male). My congrats go to Aamir and
: Karisma... but... I seriously feel that Jatin-Lalit have been cheated
: out of two Filmfares for their music in Khamoshi-The Musical this year
: and Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge last year. I agree that Rangeela
: deserved the award, yet I don't think that Nadeem Shravan deserved it
: for Raja Hindustani. A total of eight songs were in the film, 3 of them
: were Pardesis, 2 were Aaye Ho Meri Zindagi and one was a take off of
: "Kina Sona" from Aisi Bhi Kya Jaldi Hai. Now what is wrong with the
: film industry?! Or maybe the Filmfares for that fact! Not to mention
: "Tere Ishq Main Nachenge" was a bad number altogether also. So the
: total number of decent, "listenable" songs in the movie were 1 (3
: Pardesis)+ 1 (Aaye Ho Meri Zindagi)+ 1 (Puchho Zara Puchho)+ 1 (Kitna
: Sona)= 4 (which 1 was copied)= 3 original compositions! Now what is
: wrong with this picture? Khamoshi-- The Musical has 8 superb original
: songs by J-L (forget the 2 by Remo), Bahoon Ke Darmiyan, Gaate The
: Pehle, Jana Suno Hum Tum, Aaj Main Upar, Yeh Dil Sun Raha Hai, Saagar
: Kinare Bhi Do Dil, and Mausam Ki Sargam Ko. Of which NONE were copied
: off anything and NOTHING was repeated twice. Which took more work?
: Which was a better album? Now you tell me!
: Similarly, N-S got the award for Deewana in 1992 when J-L has the superb
: performance in JJWS. But Deewana was far better than Raja Hindustani,
: although according to my own views, J-L's JJWS was much better than
: Deewana.
: Now about the singer... I agree that Udit Narayan should have won, but
: not for Pardesi Pardesi, rather for Ghar Se Nikalte Hi. The song was
: sung much better, and the song was carried by Udit rather than supported
: by Alka Yagnik in Pardesi.
: Anyways, those are my views and feelings, no hard feelings... I hope :)
: --
Ikram Ahmed Khan
SAMIR AHMAD SIDDIQUI wrote:
> Avinash Ramchandani (avi...@indolink.com) wrote:
> : Sona)= 4 (which 1 was copied)= 3 original compositions! Now what is
> : wrong with this picture? Khamoshi-- The Musical has 8 superb original
> : songs by J-L (forget the 2 by Remo), Bahoon Ke Darmiyan, Gaate The
> : Pehle, Jana Suno Hum Tum, Aaj Main Upar, Yeh Dil Sun Raha Hai, Saagar
> : Kinare Bhi Do Dil, and Mausam Ki Sargam Ko. Of which NONE were copied
> : off anything and NOTHING was repeated twice. Which took more work?
> : Which was a better album? Now you tell me!
>
> spade. J-L indeed did copy a song in Khamoshi. The 'jana suno hum tum
> pe marte' number was a lift of an old Neil Diamond song. Saagar Kinare
> Hai Do Dil to Pyase had a few bars from 'Oruvan Oruvan' from AR Rahman's
> Muthu.
There is more. They are guilty of copying themselves. { Er... is that
possible?? Well, we do accuse AnuM for the same, don't we?? :)}
In Mausam ki sargam ko sunn, they play that lovely piano piece from
Pehla Nasha - JJWS. In fact, this is a particularly favorite tactic
for them. They play a similar piece in Fareb also.
> J-L should carve out an identity of their own
> instead of trying to emulate RD Burman. This was more obvious earlier in
> their career.
Obvious even now, I would say. Take Return of Jewel Thief. In fact, it
might
even have been a conscious decision to do so for this film.
And one final eksh-treemlee subjective point of view -
Anybody trying to emulate RDB can't really be denounced for not trying
to come up with good music. It is a totally different matter that one
might fail to come up with anything as good as the original did... :)
Later,
Ikram.
Dev Mannemela
Who feels like compiling the N-S "lifts" list?
I am not familiar with Pakistani music. Have they lifted any Ilayaraja
numbers? (or are they A-M's sole property? ) Ofcourse there is
"Deewana Deewana" based of ARR's "thillana"
So let me start
1) "Deewana Deewana" - "Jung" - ARR - "thillana" - "Muthu"
Please add to the list.
I know there are a lot more ("Akhiyan Milaaon" etc..). I have
enjoyed some of their songs (from "Phool Aur Kante", "Aashiqui"
"Raja" etc..) and am very curious to know what are the lifted ones
and what their sources are..
Thanks !
dev
--
Dev Mannemela de...@spimageworks.com
Sony Pictures Imageworks 310.840.8143 (O)
Ashok
In article <3315BA...@raleigh.ibm.com>, iak...@raleigh.ibm.com says...
>
>There is more. They are guilty of copying themselves. { Er... is that
>possible??
If anyone, a Rćhman fan should know. :)
(The non-ASCII character between R and h above is an archaic Latin
character, which is supposed to look like a and e touching each other.
Since I never manage to remember whether it is Rehman or Rahman that you
object to, I am using it as a shortcut for: a or e whichever is the
politically correct orthography.)
>
>And one final eksh-treemlee subjective point of view -
>Anybody trying to emulate RDB can't really be denounced for not trying
>to come up with good music. It is a totally different matter that one
>might fail to come up with anything as good as the original did... :)
>
>Later,
>Ikram.
And it is a very related matter that one should judge the incarnations
only after they got as many chances as the loRD himself did. Otherwise,
there is the very real danger of their signal-to-noise ratio ending up
being many times higher than his!
Ashok
khisar m paika
No one is forcing you to listen his songs!!If you don't like
him don't listen to him, no need to repeat sayings over and
over again!!!
Khisar Paika
Snehal B. Oza
In <5f4ltl$n...@lex.zippo.com> ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) writes:
>In article <3315BA...@raleigh.ibm.com>, iak...@raleigh.ibm.com says...
>>
>>There is more. They are guilty of copying themselves. { Er... is that
>>possible??
>If anyone, a Rehman fan should know. :)
In case of ARR (I suppose you refer to him), looks like his source of
inspiration has dried. I don't know whether to call this a sudden lack of talent
(if at all such phrase exists). But certainly not sign of greatness.
Anyway, I didn't intend to comment on that, nor was that the goal for this
thread. I have one interesting case of S. N. Tripathi here. Ashok and I have
had an email exchange some time back about this. Now to futher that I found
recently (on Independence Day) -- thanks to VB -- that he reused one his tune
(looks like his pet) two times. That means there are three songs that are Cc
of one another!
Woh Dekho Udhar Chand Nikalaa - Rup Kumari (1951)
Nigaahon Me Tum Ho - Jadu Nagari (1962)
and new discovery -- a song by Asha & chorus
Ye Tan Man Watan Pe Nichhawar Karenge - Kunwari (1966)
This is more than surprising to me. Does some other tune exist, that is used
again and again like here ? (By same MD)
>Ashok
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Snehal B. Oza wrote:
> In <5f4ltl$n...@lex.zippo.com> ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) writes:
> >In article <3315BA...@raleigh.ibm.com>, iak...@raleigh.ibm.com says...
> >>There is more. They are guilty of copying themselves. { Er... is that
> >>possible??
>
> >If anyone, a Rehman fan should know. :)
>
> In case of ARR (I suppose you refer to him), looks like his source of
> inspiration has dried. I don't know whether to call this a sudden lack of talent
> (if at all such phrase exists). But certainly not sign of greatness.
>
> Anyway, I didn't intend to comment on that
Snehal, just how can you say that I don't intend to comment on that
*after*
doing just that?? This is extremely irresponsible.
Either withdraw the comment, until such time that you want to discuss
it...
Or discuss it.
And yes, I did *not* use any smileys above...
And Ashok, lemme see if I can provide you with an easy way to remember
ARR's spelling. Write down "Waheeda Rehman" and then remember that
Rahman's name is *mistakenly* spelt as the way Waheeda spelt it!!
And since you already know that the controversy is whether there is an
'a'or an 'e' between 'R' and 'h', take the opposite of the way you spell
Waheeda.
Easy enuff, wot?? :) Provided of course that you spell Waheeda's last
name
correctly. :) :)
Later,
Ikram.
Ashok
In article <331713...@raleigh.ibm.com>, iak...@raleigh.ibm.com says...
>
>Snehal B. Oza wrote:
>> In case of ARR (I suppose you refer to him), looks like his source of
>> inspiration has dried. I don't know whether to call this a sudden lack of talent
>> (if at all such phrase exists). But certainly not sign of greatness.
>>
>> Anyway, I didn't intend to comment on that
>
>Snehal, just how can you say that I don't intend to comment on that
>*after*
>doing just that?? This is extremely irresponsible.
>
>Either withdraw the comment, until such time that you want to discuss
>it...
>Or discuss it.
>
>And yes, I did *not* use any smileys above...
You need one more "or" clause Ikram! Something like "Or you may treat
it a tossed glove. And, Snehal, you have the choice of weapons." :)
>
>And Ashok, lemme see if I can provide you with an easy way to remember
>ARR's spelling. Write down "Waheeda Rehman" and then remember that
>Rahman's name is *mistakenly* spelt as the way Waheeda spelt it!!
>And since you already know that the controversy is whether there is an
>'a'or an 'e' between 'R' and 'h', take the opposite of the way you spell
>Waheeda.
>Easy enuff, wot?? :)
Thanks, Ikram. I am sure you have been through quite a few telepphone
converstaions like the following in your life!
Secretary: May I know who is calling, Sir?
Ikram: You can tell him it is Ikram.
Secretary: Would you mind spelling it out for me, Sir?
Ikram: Certainly. Here goes. "I" as in "Ikram". "K" as in "KH.."
Secretary: Excuse me, Sir. What as in what did you say?
>Later,
>Ikram.
Ashok
Bunty
Hello Avinash,
AV>I've been overwhelmed by all these responses in favor (or almost) of my
AV>opinion. I am going to do my best in responding to some/all of them.
AV>> OK...Papa Kethe Hain! Although K:TM was excellent (I just bought a CD
AV>> of it after my cassette broke:>) PKH had a amazing number of songs...all
AV>> which were popular and had great repeat listening value. That quality
AV>> is what, for me, deserves the most cedit. The problem with Khamoshi is
AV>> that 2 of the 8 songs...Saagar Kinare...Ankhon Mein (Kumar Sanu should
AV>> be banned for singing this bad) and even Gaate The Pehle Akele got on my
AV>> nerves. Every time I listen to the soundtrack I foward those songs.
AV>> Their not bad (like RH's) but just get on you after a while:)
AV>I agree... Aankhon Main was a mediocre track, and Saagar Kinare does get
AV>on my nerves sometimes. Gaate The Pehle is one of the better songs-- I
AV>mean it is still much better than the FAST song in RH! PKH does have
That was the best of the three, but I wouldn't rank it upwards the other
good songs in the soundtrack..just MHO.:)
AV>great numbers. I would have been satisfied if PKH, Maachis or even TMS
AV>would have won. Personally, I think that if N-S was the MD for any of
AV>the other three (N-S could never make an album like Maachis or K:TM...
AV>but... lets say if Gulzar or Bhansali made the music for them and then
AV>they just added it into the cassette to make it sell) they would have
Thats how things work. Nothing we can say can change that.:(
AV>won for sure. As you mentioned, I forward all the songs in Raja
AV>Hindustani except the first Pardesi and Aaye Ho Meri Zingagi!!!
Thats weird. I haven't even listened to RH after I bought the
tape!:):)
AV>> I think there was a discussion on RMIM that mentioned that One of
AV>> Khamoshi's songs was copied. I hope a person reading my message can
AV>> ID the song. The song was Jana Sunam... sung amazingly by Udit. I
AV>> think it was a copy of a Paul Anka (??) (recalling from memory so its
AV>> probably wrong) number....
AV>As for the copied point... well it shouldn't be considered copied if we
AV>haven't even heard the song before! If it takes eight months to uncover
Well, all I have to say for that is that its one of the best "adaptions"
I have heard. I don't have the same amount of praise for the song since
I now know they didn't come up with the idea, but its very good to
listen to...and thats that.
AV>the song from which it was copied... I mean, look at songs like Pardesi
AV>which Pakistani music listeners can immediately point out the songs at
AV>which they were copied (derived) from. And songs from Krishna which was
AV>derived from O Mere Sona Re Sona... And how about songs like Dil Maka
The most famous song in Krishna, "Janjaria <sp?>" sung by Abijeet was
really Anand Raj Anand's. No it wasn't COPIED it WAS STOLEN by Anu by
his Time (the company both are under contact in for some movies)
friends. I have the story so if you want to hear it let me know. Hey,
didn't you think that it was WEIRD that ANA did the lyrics (since he is
a MD). At least we can say that Anu is nice for doing that!:)
AV>Dina or that Auzaar one (Macarena copies)... Everybody has heard the
AV>old songs and even the popular "Kinaa Sona" from Aisi Bhi Kya Jaldi
AV>Hai... Those should be the ones considered copied!
He has copied millions of times...one has lost count.
AV>They still are!! Look at Khamoshi and Fareb (which wasn't even
AV>nominated!) not to mention DDLJ! Hopefully they will stun everybody
BV>with their numerous compositions this year.
Fareb was great. DDLJ, i still feel to his day, is an overhyped and
copied (from RD Burman) effort. But that was their "break"..weird since
they have been here for 5 years or so!
AV>But the Khamoshi songs were more popular when they were released. Raja
AV>Hindustani took a while to pick up because the movie is what caused them
AV>to pick up. They weren't so good on the initial listen.
Yes, but Khamoshi flopped!! Don't you see! Ifs it's not a hit, there
is no chance for a award!!! Doesn't it make sense!!:)
AV>Enough of Kumar Sanu. Now a days he is getting to my nerves-- that
AV>why I don't care for the Virasaat songs too much! I can't stand
AV>him anymore!
Say it like it is!! :)
bunty
Snehal B. Oza
>> In case of ARR (I suppose you refer to him), looks like his source of
>> inspiration has dried. I don't know whether to call this a sudden lack of talent
>> (if at all such phrase exists). But certainly not sign of greatness.
>>
>> Anyway, I didn't intend to comment on that
>Snehal, just how can you say that I don't intend to comment on that
>*after*
>doing just that?? This is extremely irresponsible.
I am at loss of words. I thought, I was open to disclose the fact, I did not
want to comment but eventually did. Hence that single line. I stand by my
comment. The reason I didn't want to disclose what I think about him is, it
would have avoided this followup post. Seriously. I do not want to get dragged
in to ARR matters. Reason: I haven't have enough material (read knowledge) to
really take a firm stand on any issue. I have heard not much of him. You can
count -- Roja, Bombay, Gentleman -- on finger tips. Was Hindustani by him too ?
Then add that. I am not exposed to his Tamil output either. But whatever I have
heard (and it's surprising that I listened to his Tamil output in Atlanta, and
not here in South India!) is superb. One Thirda Thirda (heard in Tamil) is just
great. Also Gentleman sounds good in Tamil original. That sums up, my knowhow
on this subject.
Now obviously you may ask "Then why that comment". Answer is I should be allowed
to form an opinion based on whatever I know (and however little that may be).
This is the reason when Rizwan opined about Ainl Biswas, I defended him,
although my views were entirely opposite. Further on the comment I made: I
started thinking that way after realising that the freshness he brought, the
innovation he brought -- through fusion of Hindustani and Western instruments
along with Synthesizers -- in 1993/4 in Thirda Thirda and then in Roja was
diminishing faster than one ever thought. His Bombay and Hinsudtani is too
predictable. And I don't show any bias against him being a MD of current
generation; I have already expressed similar views for Naushad as well. :)
Hope this answers all your anxious-nervous-may_be_angry queries. I wish this
is my last post on this subject.
Snehal
PS: Tell me what was so irresponsible in my post ? Just curious, now.
>Either withdraw the comment, until such time that you want to discuss
>it...
>Or discuss it.
>And yes, I did *not* use any smileys above...
>Later,
>Ikram.
Rahul Shiyekar
>Avinash Ramchandani (avi...@indolink.com) wrote:
>: Hi,
>
>: I am stepping out of my Editor role and into the Critic role... maybe a
>: bit more than a Critic role :).
>:Khamoshi-- The Musical has 8 superb original
>: songs by J-L (forget the 2 by Remo), Bahoon Ke Darmiyan, Gaate The
>: Pehle, Jana Suno Hum Tum, Aaj Main Upar, Yeh Dil Sun Raha Hai, Saagar
>: Kinare Bhi Do Dil, and Mausam Ki Sargam Ko. Of which NONE were copied
>: off anything and NOTHING was repeated twice. Which took more work?
>: Which was a better album? Now you tell me!
'Aaj main upar' has a tune similar to the song 'Sama hai yeh suhana'
from the film 'Goonj' (MD Biddu). So, JL do also copy sometimes.
Also, someone mentioned about RDB copying tunes. I do not think anyone
even has a right to comment such things about RDB. He has given so many
original tunes which will remain fresh forever. It is sick of someone
blaming RDB for plagiarism. Agreed, he has copied some tunes, but
very, very few. He was a great MD.
So what, even Shankar Jaikishen had copied some tunes.
Melody in Hindi music was lost after RDB. A-M, N-S, etc. are small time
music directors, who do not have a proper classical music background,
so they are mediocre.
Also, earlier, the MDs were booned with great singers like Lata, Asha,
Rafi, Kishore, etc. The singers today are so bad. Alka Yagnik is
unbearable. SO, the MDs although they wish, cannot produce difficult
songs.
Hoping for melody again
- Rahul
Surajit A. Bose
In article <5f5u0c$k...@scel.sequent.com>, sne...@sequent.com (Snehal B.
Oza) wrote:
> This is more than surprising to me. Does some other tune exist,
> that is used again and again like here ? (By same MD)
Off the top of my head examples:
*RDB used the same tune for a song in Jangal mein Mangal and the title
song of Baseraa: "jahaa.N pe saveraa ho, baseraa vahi hai." God knows why;
the tune wasn't worth using even once. And Lata's shrieking in the second
version is painful to listen to as she attempts pitches the human voice
was never designed to reach....
*Salil Chaudhury had an established habit of turning the interlude of Song
A into the main music of Song B. I think--and this is unreliable, coz
unbelievably enough, I don't have the soundtrack of Madhumati (I think I
left it behind when I was rescued from that desert island)--but I think
that the interludes of "dil taDap taDapke keh rahaa hai aa bhi jaa" are
the same as the tune of "ghaDi ghaDi moraa dil dhaDake." And I think that
the interlude of "ghaDi ghaDi" in turn was recycled into "baag me.n kali
khili" from Chaand aur Suraj. Can some guru or guruma please confirm?
-s
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
bu...@cabarrus.k12.nc.us (Bunty) writes:
On Jatil-Lalit...
> DDLJ, i still feel to his day, is an overhyped and copied (from RD
> Burman) effort. But that was their "break"..weird since they have
> been here for 5 years or so!
While I agree with most of your post (i.e. the part that I
snipped from my follow-up), the above lines I cannot help disagreeing
with.
Firstly, I don't see DDLJ being overhyped as a soundtrack ---
that is true more of the film itself. The soundtrack IMO is quite nice
and has very sweet songs. Furthermore, I can't see what is so R D
Burmanesque about it. Jatin-Lalit have always been heavily inspired by
RDB and typically try to compose in a similar style, but the DDLJ
songs are much farther away from the RDB style than many of their
other soundtracks.
Also, DDLJ as the 'break' for Jatin-Lalit? Then what do you
call "Yaara Dildaara", "Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander" and a bunch of other
interim films?
Ciao,
ND
\____Neeraj Deshmukh__________...@isip.msstate.edu____/
Office: ISIP, MSU, 434 Simrall, Hardy Road, MS State MS 39762
Ph: (601) 325-8335 Fax: (601) 325-3149
Home: 100 Logan Drive #D, Starkville MS 39759 Ph: (601) 323-2819
\_http://www.isip.msstate.edu/____Disk Space - The Final Frontier..._/
Bunty
Hi Neeraj,
DE>On Jatil-Lalit...
DE>> DDLJ, i still feel to his day, is an overhyped and copied (from RD
DE>> Burman) effort. But that was their "break"..weird since they have
DE>> been here for 5 years or so!
DE> While I agree with most of your post (i.e. the part that I
DE>snipped from my follow-up), the above lines I cannot help disagreeing
DE>with.
Thats understandable. I knew that the someone was going to be
against what I said.:)
DE> Firstly, I don't see DDLJ being overhyped as a soundtrack ---
Well, its just my opinion that it was over hyped. I personally didn't
feel that DDLJ was as good as people made it out to be (however not to
the extent of RH). Please don't get me wrong; I did like it.
DE>that is true more of the film itself. The soundtrack IMO is quite nice
DE>and has very sweet songs. Furthermore, I can't see what is so R D
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, a couple were nice. I liked "Mandi.." sung by Udit.
GFG=2Dmanesque about it. Jatin-Lalit have always been heavily inspired by
Of course they are inspired by RDB! Since RDB was their guru! There is
nothing wrong with being inspired. You can say that ARR is inspired by
western music. Being inspired doen't mean you have to copy.
Thats what J-L has done. Listen to DDLJ again. Esp. listen to "Ruk Ja
O Dil Diwane" sung by Asha and Abihjeet. Now listen to "Bachna Ae
Haseenon" from Hum Kisise Kum Nahin *ing Shami Kapoor. Its clearly
copied. The other song, as far as I know, were original but very RDB
like. They went as far as using the same intruments in the same "way"
was RDB. But I see nothing wrong with that, as long as its done in a
good way.
DE>typically try to compose in a similar style, but the DDLJ
DE>songs are much farther away from the RDB style than many of their
DE>other soundtracks.
I don't think thats too true. Just my opinion, of course:)
DE> Also, DDLJ as the 'break' for Jatin-Lalit? Then what do you
DE>call "Yaara Dildaara", "Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander" and a bunch of other
DE>interim films?
What I menat by break is this. Before DDLJ who would you have
considered top MD's in the industry? A-M, N-S, ARR, Anu? J-L were just
there. J-L were considered in the shadows. Plus, they were not
getting too many offers and their price was not that high. After
DDLJ they are a household name and all of a sudden they are ranked
high as the next M-D. JJWS didn't do that for them. Even Raja Bun Gaya
Gentleman didn't do wonders for them. So, they were forced to do movies
like "Boyfriend". Remember that? I don't think too many people do:)
Thats what I really ment by break, since it put them into the
mainstream.
Thanks for your reply...
bunty
-------------------------
bu...@cabarrus.k12.nc.us
-------------------------
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Snehal B. Oza wrote:
Sorry Snehal, but this is getting funny. :)
> I am at loss of words. I thought, I was open to disclose the fact, I did not
> want to comment but eventually did. Hence that single line. I stand by my
> comment. The reason I didn't want to disclose what I think about him is, it
> would have avoided this followup post.
> PS: Tell me what was so irresponsible in my post ? Just curious, now.
So, the "fact" is - you think poorly of ARR
Opinion/ comment is - "His source of inspiration has dried"
Now one has two choices - Either to sit tight and not comment....
Or go ahead and comment
Usenet posting is for those who would like to do the latter.
When such comments are posted, and then followed by a holier-than-thou
disclaimer about " However, I don't wish to comment on that", it
is insulting to read, for moi at least.
What, I ask, is the reason for commenting when you don't wish to
comment?
Nobody is forcing you to, afaik. You could as well have posted the thing
that you wanted to comment on {SNT, in this case} without posting about
ARR.
But, you didn't do this. That is where the irresponsibility comes in.
One expects more from somebody who posts as regularly as you. If you
want to comment on ARR, you have to leave your comments open for
further commenting, no?
And as for your opinion of ARR's 'source of inspiration', I don't
intend to comment on it. {And when I say that, I stick to what I
write by not commenting on it. :)}
And one fact for you - The Hindi version of ARR's tamizh Gentleman
was called 'The Gentleman' and was MDed by Anu Malik, with three
tunes re-rendered from ARR's version.
Later,
Ikram.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Bunty wrote:
> The most famous song in Krishna, "Janjaria <sp?>" sung by Abijeet was
> really Anand Raj Anand's. No it wasn't COPIED it WAS STOLEN by Anu by
> his Time (the company both are under contact in for some movies)
> friends. I have the story so if you want to hear it let me know. Hey,
> didn't you think that it was WEIRD that ANA did the lyrics (since he is
> a MD). At least we can say that Anu is nice for doing that!:)
>
What is ANA? or did you mean ARA for Anand Raaj Anand? So lyrics
for Jhanjariya are by ARA??
I read something about this at the G site (the year review article)
Btw, address is http://www.gmagazine.com
And wanted to know more about this. Post all, Bunty. :) :)
As for AnuM and his copying ways, yes I concur. But lemme post in
defense (slightly) of him. His recent 'Diljale' had two Udit songs.
Both quite decent. So much so that Udit himself says
'Ho naheeN sakta, ho naheeN sakta' in disbelief and then turns
to AlkaY and asks her opinion on this - 'Is baare meN kya kehti ho'
:) :)
Major credit should go to Javed Akhtar for some very nice lyrics.
But AnuM, being AnuM, can't really help his cheatin' heart. :) :)
He borrows the OPN-ishtyle for the song by Poornima aka Sushma
Shreshtha (sp?) 'Shaam hai dhuaaN dhuaaN'. No AshaB, our Poornima,
but it was really interesting hearing another singer's rendition of
a song whose style was tailor-made for AshaB. I thought that
she did a fair job; I quite enjoy the song. Also the beginning in
which a baddy-goon {sounded like Amrish Puri} declares
'Diljale, diljale, oh laaley, yahaaN toh sabhi diljale haiN"
which results in frenzied laughter from everybody on the scene,
as if they had just come across one of PGW's juiciest. :) :)
That is what I find amazing about last year, I guess. Even
N-S and AnuM had a few decent songs to their credit. Rajesh
Roshan became a force with Papa Kehte Hain and Dastak....
Leads one to the question of what did Anand-Milind do for
this year?
Later,
Ikram.
Later,
Ikram.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon wrote:
> Firstly, I don't see DDLJ being overhyped as a soundtrack ---
> that is true more of the film itself. The soundtrack IMO is quite nice
> and has very sweet songs. Furthermore, I can't see what is so R D
> Burmanesque about it. Jatin-Lalit have always been heavily inspired by
> RDB and typically try to compose in a similar style, but the DDLJ
> songs are much farther away from the RDB style than many of their
> other soundtracks.
I agree with you except for the part about DDLJ songs being much farther
away from the RDB style. I guess the operative clause was 'than many
of their other soundtracks'. But still, please consider expanding on
that clause.
Would enjoy reading that.
Later,
Ikram.
Pradeep Dubey
In article <bose.2-0103...@tty62.tc1.nd.edu>, bos...@nd.edu (Surajit A. Bose) writes:
|> In article <5f5u0c$k...@scel.sequent.com>, sne...@sequent.com (Snehal B.
|> Oza) wrote:
|>
|> > This is more than surprising to me. Does some other tune exist,
|> > that is used again and again like here ? (By same MD)
|>
|> Off the top of my head examples:
|>
|> *RDB used the same tune for a song in Jangal mein Mangal and the title
|> song of Baseraa: "jahaa.N pe saveraa ho, baseraa vahi hai." God knows why;
|> the tune wasn't worth using even once. And Lata's shrieking in the second
|> version is painful to listen to as she attempts pitches the human voice
|> was never designed to reach....
I have talked about it before, but ...
RDB did that at least once more. 'saagar kinare' (SAAGAR) and
'hamein raaston ki zaroorat nahin hai' (NARAM GARAM) have almost
identical mukhaDa tunes. The stanza tune of the second song
is especially sweet.
Pradeep
|>
|> *Salil Chaudhury had an established habit of turning the interlude of Song
|> A into the main music of Song B. I think--and this is unreliable, coz
|> unbelievably enough, I don't have the soundtrack of Madhumati (I think I
|> left it behind when I was rescued from that desert island)--but I think
|> that the interludes of "dil taDap taDapke keh rahaa hai aa bhi jaa" are
|> the same as the tune of "ghaDi ghaDi moraa dil dhaDake." And I think that
|> the interlude of "ghaDi ghaDi" in turn was recycled into "baag me.n kali
|> khili" from Chaand aur Suraj. Can some guru or guruma please confirm?
Keep going Surajit ...
Then "baag mein kali khili ..." was used as an interlude in "saathi re ..."
(POONAM KI RAAT).
Pradeep
|>
|> -s
Ashok
In article <5f88gs$6...@dallasI5.dallas.net>, rah...@dallas.net says...
>
> It is sick of someone
> blaming RDB for plagiarism. Agreed, he has copied some tunes
:)
> So what, even Shankar Jaikishen had copied some tunes.
I find it very insightful on your part to bring up Shankar-Jaikishan
in a Nadeem-Shravan and Filmfare thread, because S-J were the Nadeem-
Shravan of the '60s and early '70s. Or, if that sounds chronologically
inverted, one could say that Nadeem-Shravan are today's S-J, except that
this way of saying it doesn't highlight the fact that the similarities
are predominantly in the second half of S-J's career, not so much in the
'50s. Anyway, N-S seem to be the torch-bearers for the trend S-J started:
populist, and often hideous, music and, inferentially, manipulation of
the Filmfare awards for music (and singing).
In one respect, S-J's culpability is more serious, because the soundtracks
that they cheated out of due honours include 'Guide', 'Pakeeza' and
'Amar Prem'.
>
> Hoping for melody again
>
>- Rahul
Amen.
Ashok
Satish c. Kalra
.......................
Sure enough, even SJ were 'inspired' by the international music scene.
But so was even S.D. Burman. Remember the evergreen "Thandi hawayen,
lehra ke aayeN"! That was an adaptation of a western song (I forget
the exact title of the original, but until the early mid-fifties, it
used to be heard oftne in India, even in the All India Radio's weekly
Friday program of Western Music for the Armed Forces. In those days,
there were some other songs too by SDB that were claimed to have been
inspired, but frankly, those were my initial days of serious
intorduction to the film music, and I personally do not remember any
others.
RD Burman, of course, 'adapted' more than SDB. I remember the "Mil
gaya, humko saathi mil gayaa.." song from HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, which
was 'more than adapted' by him. (Please do not ask me the title of the
original number, because I don't know it.)
However, the thread of SJ cheating the sound tracks of Guide, Pakeezah,
and Amar Prem was actually started by, who else, the duo Laxmikant
Pyarelal, in 1964, for Dosti, that cheated the 'Sangam' soundtrack for
the Filmfare award for that year. A veiled refrence to that fact is
made even by Bunny Reuben, the film journalist and joint producer (with
V.K. Dubey, the ex-announcer, nay, DJ for Radio Ceylon) of AASHIQ.
Also, for a long time, the Filmfare awards were given by popular
opinion, not by any panel. Personally, after the DOSTI Vs. SANGAM in
1964, I lost my faith in the awards, and this year's award to NS for
Raja Hindustani does not even merit a mention. Every other score that
was nominated was better than Raja Hindustani's.
I have heard that Ashok D., kind of does not like SJ very much, but due
credit must be given where it belongs. In the fifties and the early
sixties, SJ were among the very best that the hindi film industry had,
and I consider myself lucky and privileged to have lived and grown up
to their music in that period. It was widely reported in those days
that SJ came up with the entire soundtrack of Basant Bahar in about 30
days, and that they were responding to the accusations in those days
that they were not capable of composing songs based on classical music
( a la Naushad-camp after Baiju Bawra). Perhaps that is why even the
title of the movie was BB like in Naushad's BB!
Sometimes, I wonder what we, the nettors, and the other music critics
of today's contemporary music world would have had to say if the
lilting, full of rythm music of those days were released today for the
first time! They never enjoyed the kind of market that today's
so-called MDs do, and they probably never heard of the kind of moolah
that is being paid today for one film's music. The music produced by
the likes of SJ, SDB, Naushad, SN Tripathi, Khayyam, why, even OP
Nayyar (at least in retrospect) in those days was and remains simply
beautiful. (Remember the song from LOVE MARRIAGE, "teeeen kanastar peet
peet kar gala phaD kar chillana, yaar mere mat bura maan, yeh gaana hai
na bajaana hai" - it was reported that SJ produced that song as a
direct 'throw' at OP Nayyar, who was producing music by the hour, even
though his songs, especially the orchestrization sounded repetitive in
film after film.)
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
.......................
Snehal B. Oza
>In <5fhkl0$p...@lex.zippo.com> ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) writes:
>>'50s. Anyway, N-S seem to be the torch-bearers for the trend S-J
>started:
>>populist, and often hideous, music and, inferentially, manipulation of
>>the Filmfare awards for music (and singing).
>>
>>In one respect, S-J's culpability is more serious, because the
>soundtracks
>>that they cheated out of due honours include 'Guide', 'Pakeeza' and
>>'Amar Prem'.
>>
>>
>>Amen.
>>
>>Ashok
>>
>.......................
Satish ji, thanks for defending Shankar Jaikishan, in great style. I guess,
I have been partially successful in driving a point home, for many netters
(Or I am wrong ?) that this duo were worth much more than it's thought on this
forum, especially for their music of 1950s and early 1960s (particularly upto
1961).
>However, the thread of SJ cheating the sound tracks of Guide, Pakeezah,
>and Amar Prem was actually started by, who else, the duo Laxmikant
>Pyarelal, in 1964, for Dosti, that cheated the 'Sangam' soundtrack for
YES! I have always mentioned this on the net (and I still maintain) it was LP
and NOT SJ, who spoiled the nice environment. I don't know if there were better
soundtracks than Sangam in 1964, I would definitely say, it was 10 times better
than Dosti of LP.
>the Filmfare award for that year. A veiled refrence to that fact is
>made even by Bunny Reuben, the film journalist and joint producer (with
>V.K. Dubey, the ex-announcer, nay, DJ for Radio Ceylon) of AASHIQ.
>Also, for a long time, the Filmfare awards were given by popular
>opinion, not by any panel. Personally, after the DOSTI Vs. SANGAM in
>1964, I lost my faith in the awards, and this year's award to NS for
>Raja Hindustani does not even merit a mention. Every other score that
>was nominated was better than Raja Hindustani's.
>I have heard that Ashok D., kind of does not like SJ very much, but due
>credit must be given where it belongs. In the fifties and the early
I have a request/question to Ashok here. Can you provide some more material for
disucssion here ? I mean to what films the films you listed above lost to ?
My guess is
Amar Prem (1965) to Aamrapaali (1965)
Guide (1968) to RK-Sairabanu starrer 1968 film (forgot name)
Pakiza (1970) to Mera Naam Joker (1970) ?
If these assumptions are right, Aamrapaali is 3 times better than AP. What is
AP's strong area ? One -- only one -- great Lata solo: Raina Biti Jaaye and
that is followed by other Lata-Kishor solos of good quality. But do yoy think
they all put together could come even close to 3 Lata solos of AP of SJ ?
Regarding Guide, I concede, that yes, that was not proper.
Now comes the most, dificult part of this post :) Lemme first give my verdict!
I favour MNJ!!!Now this must be surprised to some, and not to many (for they
know, I always back SJ :)). But that's not entirly true (that I always ...)
The reason I prefer MNJ is, it has three good songs: One Mukesh solo (Jaae Kahan
), one by chorus (when childeren comes back from vacation they sing this one)
and one moer through Jaikishan sung by Mohammad Rafi (which now cut in current
form of movie). They may not be as good as Pakiza's 5 Lata songs, _but_ BG
score of MNJ is just too good and can't be overlooked. Overall, Pakiza is
more melodious, but MNJ is much more striking, and that probably is just about
right comment in one line on this issue.
Flames are welcome
Snehal
>sixties, SJ were among the very best that the hindi film industry had,
>and I consider myself lucky and privileged to have lived and grown up
>to their music in that period. It was widely reported in those days
>that SJ came up with the entire soundtrack of Basant Bahar in about 30
>days, and that they were responding to the accusations in those days
>that they were not capable of composing songs based on classical music
>( a la Naushad-camp after Baiju Bawra). Perhaps that is why even the
>title of the movie was BB like in Naushad's BB!
>Satish Kalra
>.......................
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Satish c. Kalra wrote:
>
> Sometimes, I wonder what we, the nettors, and the other music critics
> of today's contemporary music world would have had to say if the
> lilting, full of rythm music of those days were released today for the
> first time! They never enjoyed the kind of market that today's
> so-called MDs do, and they probably never heard of the kind of moolah
> that is being paid today for one film's music.
Without taking anything away from your general argoomunt :)
I have heard that Naushad, at least, in those days would command
princely
sums. Films were sold on the basis that Naushad was giving the
music. The price that I had heard was 12 lakhs. That, for those days,
is probably more than a crore now. {Economists need not get on my
case, please... I have no clue about the exact inflation figures :)}
Was this true? And wouldn't there be others also who would
have received high fees? Were there??
Later,
Ikram.
ps. NS is today's Naushad and SJ!!!!!!
And I thought *I* was being too laudatory in their partial defense!!
Minor point for Ashok: What was NS's Barsaat?? Not that trashy
Aashiqui surely?!!
Minor point for Snehal: What was NS's Aan?? Not that trashy
Phool Aur Kaante surely?!!
NB: I am not even talking SJ or Naushad's best here!!
Anil Hingorani
Pradeep Dubey wrote:
>
> In article <bose.2-0103...@tty62.tc1.nd.edu>, bos...@nd.edu (Surajit A. Bose) writes:
> |> In article <5f5u0c$k...@scel.sequent.com>, sne...@sequent.com (Snehal B.
> |> Oza) wrote:
> |>
> |> > This is more than surprising to me. Does some other tune exist,
> |> > that is used again and again like here ? (By same MD)
> |>
> |> Off the top of my head examples:
> |>
> |> *RDB used the same tune for a song in Jangal mein Mangal and the title
> |> song of Baseraa: "jahaa.N pe saveraa ho, baseraa vahi hai." God knows why;
> |> the tune wasn't worth using even once. And Lata's shrieking in the second
> |> version is painful to listen to as she attempts pitches the human voice
> |> was never designed to reach....
>
> I have talked about it before, but ...
>
> RDB did that at least once more. 'saagar kinare' (SAAGAR) and
> 'hamein raaston ki zaroorat nahin hai' (NARAM GARAM) have almost
> identical mukhaDa tunes. The stanza tune of the second song
> is especially sweet.
>
> Pradeep
hawayen..' from Nawjawan.
Anil
Ketan
On 5 Mar 1997, Snehal B. Oza wrote:
> My guess is
>
> Amar Prem (1965) to Aamrapaali (1965)
>
> Guide (1968) to RK-Sairabanu starrer 1968 film (forgot name)
>
> Pakiza (1970) to Mera Naam Joker (1970) ?
Guide lost to Suraj in 1965. A few nice songs in Suraj, but should the
award have gone to Guide, than to Suraj? Is the Pope Catholic?
> If these assumptions are right, Aamrapaali is 3 times better than AP. What is
> AP's strong area ? One -- only one -- great Lata solo: Raina Biti Jaaye and
> that is followed by other Lata-Kishor solos of good quality. But do yoy think
> they all put together could come even close to 3 Lata solos of AP of SJ ?
Ummm.. ofcourse KK singing 3 great songs is immaterial, as well as the
other Lata solo, right? Considering that Amar Prem lost to Be-imaan, it
hurts. Had it lost to Pakeezaah, the poison would have been easier to
swallow.
>
> Regarding Guide, I concede, that yes, that was not proper.
>
An understatement by all counts, IMHO. :)
Ketan
A Burman fan(atic)
khisar m paika
The singers today are so bad. Alka Yagnik is
> unbearable.
>
Bull Shit!!!
Abhay Avachat
The "Nadeem-Shravan sucks" thread (very nice subject line) has gone into
many different directions and dimentions than the original poster had
intended. Let me add a few diversions of my own ...
>Guide lost to Suraj in 1965. A few nice songs in Suraj, but should the
>award have gone to Guide, than to Suraj? Is the Pope Catholic?
I think Guide didn't have any match for "titali udi", which might have been
the decider in a close match.
>Ummm.. ofcourse KK singing 3 great songs is immaterial, as well as the
>other Lata solo, right? Considering that Amar Prem lost to Be-imaan, it
>hurts. Had it lost to Pakeezaah, the poison would have been easier to
>swallow.
No, it wouldn't have been. Since subjective opinions is the back-bone of
this thread, let me say that Pakeeza is one of the dullest soundtracks.
The songs are life-less. Whenever I listen to "chalate chalate .. " and
"chalo dildar chalo", I feel like shouting "are chalo bhi aage". You
consider yourself an RDB fan and compare Amar Prem with Paakeza ??
The 3 KK solos of Amar Prem are just what they are. You say "3 KK solos
of Amar Prem" and entire world knows which songs you are talking about.
(Oh please, don't invite me to join the Klan or even RDB club. :-) )
BTW, why do we crib so much about the Filmfare awards ? They are given
according to popularity. Where does quality come into picture ? Quality
is subjective. Popularity is measurable. Or are we cribbing about the
awards being manipulated ?? I am not sure who is objecting to what.
This has been a very interesting thread ! I like it whenever SJ are given
their due credit and defended. I also liked Preeti's post on Naushad and
Ikram's questions about Nadeem Shravan being today's SJ or Nausahd !
Way to go guys !!
- Abhay.
Not any die-hard fan. Just a normal fan of SJ, Naushad, SDB and RDB.
Pradeep Dubey
|> My guess is
|>
|> Amar Prem (1965) to Aamrapaali (1965)
|>
|> Guide (1968) to RK-Sairabanu starrer 1968 film (forgot name)
|>
|> Pakiza (1970) to Mera Naam Joker (1970) ?
|>
|> If these assumptions are right, Aamrapaali is 3 times better than AP. What is
|> AP's strong area ? One -- only one -- great Lata solo: Raina Biti Jaaye and
|> that is followed by other Lata-Kishor solos of good quality. But do yoy think
|> they all put together could come even close to 3 Lata solos of AP of SJ ?
Snehal, are you sure Amar Prem is that old a movie? If so,
I am impressed with my memory of those songs :-). If Filmfare awards
are popularity based, only way this other movie could have won is
because they didn't let minors vote :-). On more serious note,
if you stop some random person on street and ask him/her to list
the songs of the two (ask ISB also, if you want) movies, I can almost
bet Amar Prem list will be 2 to 3 times larger. So which one survived
the test of time: Gudie and Amar Prem or Aamrapaali/RK-Sairabaanu-starrer?
I am not trying to draw any generic conclusions for the MDs here,
just a very specific comment on these two movies. Perhaps it's
all irrelevant, if Amar Prem and Aamrapaali never shared the year of release.
Pradeep
|>
|> Regarding Guide, I concede, that yes, that was not proper.
|>
Satish c. Kalra
In <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970305134241.8741A-100000@shell> Ketan
>>
>> Amar Prem (1965) to Aamrapaali (1965)
>>
>> Guide (1968) to RK-Sairabanu starrer 1968 film (forgot name)
>>
>> Pakiza (1970) to Mera Naam Joker (1970) ?
>
>
>award have gone to Guide, than to Suraj? Is the Pope Catholic?
>
>
AP. What is
>> AP's strong area ? One -- only one -- great Lata solo: Raina Biti
Jaaye and
>> that is followed by other Lata-Kishor solos of good quality. But do
yoy think
>> they all put together could come even close to 3 Lata solos of AP of
SJ ?
>
>other Lata solo, right? Considering that Amar Prem lost to Be-imaan,
it
>hurts. Had it lost to Pakeezaah, the poison would have been easier to
>swallow.
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Ketan
>
>A Burman fan(atic)
>
Guide (1965) lost to Khandaan. Again, the best music award should be
given for, exactly that, music, not for a good song, or for that
matter, a very good song even. It should be for the overall music, and
in that respect Guide stands out even today.
If Amar Prem was in 1971, then it should not have lost to Mera naam
Joker. Except for "jaane kahaaN gaye woh din", and "sadqe heer tujhpe
hum faqir sadqe..", the rest of the score was, just so-so (this coming
from a hard core fan of the vintage SJ, vintage underscored). The best
part of the Mera naam Joker's music was, its background score. (BTW, I
am still trying to get its album, without any success yet.) That was,
again, vintage SJ, IMO.
Whether there was one good song in it of KK or three, Amar Prem's music
stood out, not for just KK's songs, but for the overall music and its
overall, appropriate to the story impact on the viewers of the film.
And that is what music should do, enhance the film, not become its
obstacle. Take the examples of Baiju Bawra (1953), Taxi Driver (1954),
Nagin (1955), Chori Chori (1956), Naya Daur (1957), Madhumati (1958),
and Anari (1959), Dil Apna Aur Preet Parayi (1960), Taj Mahal (1963),
Abhimaan (1973), Kora Kagaz (1974), Kabhie Kabhie (1976), Umrao jaan
(1981), and QSQT (1988). The reason I have ommitted a lot of years is
that IMO the films that got the music awards in those years do not
fit that category. Also note that no Filmfare awards were given in 1986
and 1987.
No film of Raj Kapoor-Saira Banu ever got the music award. In fact,
the only one in which they came together, IMHO, was Diwana It had some
very good songs, again just that.
The 1968 music award was to SJ for Brahmachari, *ing Shammi Kapoor and
Rajshree. 1968 was a year in which very few films were released, due
to some kind of labor strife in the film industry. So, it was kind of
andhoN mein kaana raja, even though "main gaaoon tum so jaao" was and
remains one of my favorite songs.
In short, why do you think they named it BALLYWOOD? Isn't that word
itself plagiarism personified? And whoever said that the 'TRICKLE
DOWN' theory applied only in the US?
Satish Kalra
.......................
Snehal B. Oza
>Without taking anything away from your general argoomunt :)
>I have heard that Naushad, at least, in those days would command
>princely
>sums. Films were sold on the basis that Naushad was giving the
>music. The price that I had heard was 12 lakhs. That, for those days,
>is probably more than a crore now. {Economists need not get on my
>case, please... I have no clue about the exact inflation figures :)}
If this true, Gemini (hope my spelling is right for this Madraas, oops Chennai
based production house) saved a lot of money!! They went to Naushad miyaan with
a proposal to compse for Yusuf-saab & Meena Kumari *rer AZAAD (1955). When this
"so_called_outstanding_composer" heard that he needs to hand over recorded
songs within 30 days, he has reportedly said: "It's impossibl". Let down by
this respected peronality im film music world, producers approached Ramchandra
Chitalkar. Today, results are right here in front of us. We have songs randing
from 'Aplam Chaplam' to classical based 'Radha Na Bole Na Bole Re'. And mind
you, this was also in "30" days. And here it's CR, I am not talking about SJ
and their Basant Bahaar. And if what Preeti Ranjan wrote is true, I doubt
what did Naushad do for Baiju Bawara ? Also, I would highly appreciate to
learn whose bandishes were 'Tori Jay Jaykaar' and other such songs in BB and
then after in Shabaab and in particular those Bade Gulam Ali redition for
Mughal-e-Azam ?
>Was this true? And wouldn't there be others also who would
>have received high fees? Were there??
Jaikishan demanded 25000 for Arzoo (1965). So did Shanakar for just one
qawwali he compsed for Arzoo [All other songs are by Jay] when Jaikishan was
away in US.
>Later,
>Ikram.
>ps. NS is today's Naushad and SJ!!!!!!
>And I thought *I* was being too laudatory in their partial defense!!
>Minor point for Ashok: What was NS's Barsaat?? Not that trashy
>Aashiqui surely?!!
>Minor point for Snehal: What was NS's Aan?? Not that trashy
>Phool Aur Kaante surely?!!
Let me tell you one more story here. I happened to meet friend of Nadeem (or
Sravan) in Vadodara in 1993. He told me how do they they do it. This chap,
whom I met, has good collection of old songs. He played one chrous song
from DAARA (1953) composed by Mohammad Shafi (note that since this MD is lesser
known no halla-gulla would be/is made). NS, changed their recording of one
ongoing song, by introducing similar chorus and removing violin band. Now,
when this is how music is done is ther eany point making any comment on NS'
music ? Further interestingly you have selected one of the best of SJ and
one of the average of Nushad! Any specific reason ?
Snehal
PS: My apology to Vandana Venkatesh.
PPS: Please ignore all typos, I am struggling to post all these sitting in
India, using link to use my Sequet a/c.
Anil Hingorani
Snehal B. Oza wrote:
>
> >However, the thread of SJ cheating the sound tracks of Guide, Pakeezah,
> >and Amar Prem was actually started by, who else, the duo Laxmikant
> >Pyarelal, in 1964, for Dosti, that cheated the 'Sangam' soundtrack for
>
> YES! I have always mentioned this on the net (and I still maintain) it was LP
> and NOT SJ, who spoiled the nice environment. I don't know if there were better
> soundtracks than Sangam in 1964, I would definitely say, it was 10 times better
> than Dosti of LP.
Wholeheartedly agree with you. 'O mere sanam...' from Sangam is
exquisite.
However, I think LP got the National Award for DOSTI too! I might be
wrong on this though.
>
> >the Filmfare award for that year. A veiled refrence to that fact is
> >made even by Bunny Reuben, the film journalist and joint producer (with
> >V.K. Dubey, the ex-announcer, nay, DJ for Radio Ceylon) of AASHIQ.
> >Also, for a long time, the Filmfare awards were given by popular
> >opinion, not by any panel. Personally, after the DOSTI Vs. SANGAM in
> >1964, I lost my faith in the awards, and this year's award to NS for
> >Raja Hindustani does not even merit a mention. Every other score that
> >was nominated was better than Raja Hindustani's.
>
Vishal B. got cheated out of the award for last year. What a shame! RH
music is the pits.
> >I have heard that Ashok D., kind of does not like SJ very much, but due
> >credit must be given where it belongs. In the fifties and the early
>
> I have a request/question to Ashok here. Can you provide some more material for
> disucssion here ? I mean to what films the films you listed above lost to ?
>
> My guess is
>
> Amar Prem (1965) to Aamrapaali (1965)
>
> Guide (1968) to RK-Sairabanu starrer 1968 film (forgot name)
>
> Pakiza (1970) to Mera Naam Joker (1970) ?
>
This is not correct.
GUIDE was up against (and lost to) SURAJ
PAKEEZAH was up against (and lost to) BEIMAAN
What travesty!
I had posted an article about this in early 1996 or late 1995.
> If these assumptions are right, Aamrapaali is 3 times better than AP. What is
> AP's strong area ? One -- only one -- great Lata solo: Raina Biti Jaaye and
> that is followed by other Lata-Kishor solos of good quality. But do yoy think
> they all put together could come even close to 3 Lata solos of AP of SJ ?
>
These two are tough to compare and hence I wouldn't take anything away
from SJ here - AAMRAPAALI music is wonderful as is AMAR PREM.
> Regarding Guide, I concede, that yes, that was not proper.
>
> Now comes the most, dificult part of this post :) Lemme first give my verdict!
> I favour MNJ!!!Now this must be surprised to some, and not to many (for they
> know, I always back SJ :)). But that's not entirly true (that I always ...)
> The reason I prefer MNJ is, it has three good songs: One Mukesh solo (Jaae Kahan
> ), one by chorus (when childeren comes back from vacation they sing this one)
> and one moer through Jaikishan sung by Mohammad Rafi (which now cut in current
> form of movie). They may not be as good as Pakiza's 5 Lata songs, _but_ BG
> score of MNJ is just too good and can't be overlooked. Overall, Pakiza is
> more melodious, but MNJ is much more striking, and that probably is just about
> right comment in one line on this issue.
>
OH NO! I absolutely, totally disagree. The entire soundtrack of PAKEEZAH
(including Naushad's numbers) is stunning. I can't even begin to compare
it with MNJ - although 'jaane kahan...' is one of my all time favorite
Mukesh/SJ songs.
But PAKEEZAH lost to something as inane as BEIMAAN! Filmfare gave the
award to SJ because Jaikishan died that year. But they forgot that
Ghulam Mohammad had also died that same year and so on every count
Filmfare was way wrong.
> >sixties, SJ were among the very best that the hindi film industry had,
> >and I consider myself lucky and privileged to have lived and grown up
> >to their music in that period. It was widely reported in those days
> >that SJ came up with the entire soundtrack of Basant Bahar in about 30
> >days, and that they were responding to the accusations in those days
> >that they were not capable of composing songs based on classical music
> >( a la Naushad-camp after Baiju Bawra). Perhaps that is why even the
> >title of the movie was BB like in Naushad's BB!
>
Sorry to disagree once again. As good as Basant Bahar is, it is not in
the same league as Baiju Bawra. 'Ja ja re ja..' from Basat Bahar is
awesome though.
Overall, SJ were above average till early 60's but not quite up there
with the likes of Naushad, MM, SDB, SC, CR etc.
Cheers.
Anil
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Abhay Avachat wrote:
>
> The "Nadeem-Shravan sucks" thread (very nice subject line) has gone into
> many different directions and dimentions than the original poster had
> intended. Let me add a few diversions of my own ...
But, coming back to Nadeem-Shravan, someone important thinks highly
of 'em. Also Anu Malik and A.R. Rahman
{Guess which name came first?? :)
Also, I am sure that he took a pause... a very long pause... after
the first name :)}
The someone important is Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.
And the article is at
http://www.redifindia.com/entertai/mar/05nusrat.htm
Enjoy,
Later,
Ikram.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Ikram Ahmed Khan wrote:
> The someone important is Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.
> And the article is at
> http://www.redifindia.com/entertai/mar/05nusrat.htm
And for those who do read the article -
'I love you' is a song picturized on Salman Khan
cavorting in the sands of Rajasthan {supposedly}
with a bevy of beauties, as semi-clad as they
can get.... Lots of leg show... by Salman Khan!!
Film: Auzaar
Later,
Ikram.
Arun Verma
Guide lost to Suraj in '65, even though Guide is much superior
soundtrack than Suraj, my choice for the best soundtrack from
65 would be Bahu Begum by Roshan....what gems.
Also, Pakeezah losing out to Be-imaan in '72 (Amar Prem came out in 71,lost
to MNJ)
just takes the cake. I'd have pitched in for Hanste Zakhm too...just for
its two superb Lata-Madan combos.
Also, please don't flame SJ for nothing...its not SJ's fault if they
got filmfares for junky soundtracks. Enjoy the best of their work
from 50s. Hell, even they lost out on may be a couple well-deserved
filmfares in 50s. Even in 60s, their Amrapali lost out to Khaandan!
Arun
Ketan
**********************THIS IS A LONG POST**********************
On 5 Mar 1997, Abhay Avachat wrote:
> I think Guide didn't have any match for "titali udi", which might have been
> the decider in a close match.
True! While passing thru the town of Corning, NY, on a tour of their
factory, I do believe I saw Sharda working in their quality control lab,
in front of a mike, while various white coated attendants, stuffed with
ear plugs, held up products in front of the mike. Now we all know how
Corning makes such tough cookware, bulletproof glass, defense equipment.
It has been heard that because of the last category of products, she was
waived her labor certification, and was given a Green Card under the
National Interest/National Security category.
> The 3 KK solos of Amar Prem are just what they are. You say "3 KK solos
> of Amar Prem" and entire world knows which songs you are talking about.
> (Oh please, don't invite me to join the Klan or even RDB club. :-) )
U and even THINKING of joining the Klan? :)) Is this a case of "Na na
karte pyar tumhi se kar baithe'? :))
> BTW, why do we crib so much about the Filmfare awards ? They are given
> according to popularity. Where does quality come into picture ? Quality
> is subjective. Popularity is measurable. Or are we cribbing about the
> awards being manipulated ?? I am not sure who is objecting to what.
I don't know about the others on RMIM, but I object to SJ and LP getting 8
awards, while the Burmans got 2 each in their prime, MM, Jaidev, CR did
not get any and Salil and Naushad got only 1. If the awards are given by
popularity and we on RMIM represent a small sample of the public, then I
ask all of you to make a judgement based on the following information,
which is given below. We on RMIM are definitely more knowledgeable and
educated about film music, through discussions, and I would think that
even the Filmfare committee comprises such knowledgeable people (and if it
does not, it should).
Seeing the utter confusion about dates and movies currently present, I dug
out an old copy of Filmfare, which lists the awards in every category, and
the nominees for that award. For the sake of RMIM I shall limit this post
to only music related awards.
All opinions expressed above, on and after this line are IMHO. Am
crossposting on RAMLI, in the belief that people there might be interested
too. I apologize if it is out of place.
If the movie got an award in 1965, it means that it was released in 1964.
I will give the winner, the nominees and the other musically notable
movies in that year(NOT NOMINATED), the last being subjective ofcourse.
The Burman slant is unavoidable simply because they were the best. No
apologies there. :))
****************************************************************************
BEST MD AWARD.
In 1954 the award went to Naushad for Baiju B, and in '55 to SDB for Taxi
Driver. There were no nominees, although Do Bhiga Zameen(Salil), Aar
Paar(OPN) and Patita(SJ) could be considered instead of Baiju Bawra, and
Jagriti(HemantK) and Boot Polish(SJ) in place of Taxi Driver.(Yes, it's
me, Ketan, saying that)
In '56 the award went to Nagin(Hemant K) and the other nominees were Udan
Khatola(Naushad) and Azaad(CR). Other notable movies not considered are
Munimji(SDB), Shree 420(SJ), House # 44(SDB), Mr & Mrs 55(OPN).
In '57 the award went to Chori Chori(SJ) and the nominee was (only one)
C.I.D(OPN). Other notable movies were Seema(SJ), Devdas(SDB), Jagte
Raho(Salil), Jhanak Jhanak Payal Baje(Vasant Desai) and Basant Bahar(SJ).
In '58 the award went to Naya Daur(OPN) and the nominee was Aasha (CR).
Other movies were Mother India(Naushad), Paying Guest(SDB), Dekh Kabira
Roya(MM), Nau Do Gyarah(SDB), and Pyaasa(SDB).
In '59, the award went to (thank GOD!)--Madhumati, and the nominees were
Phagun(OPN), & Yahudi(SJ). Other movies were Kala Pani(SDB), Phir Subah
Hogi(Khayyam), Lajwanti(SDB), Adalat(MM), Solva Saal(SDB) and Howrah
Bridge(OPN).
In '60 the award went to Anari(SJ), and the nominees were Sujata(SDB) and
Chhoti Bahen (SJ). Other movies were Navrang(CR).
In '61 the award went to (Oh my GOD!) Dil Apna Aur Preet Parayi(SJ), and
the nominees were Mughal-E-Azam(Naushad) and Chaudvin Ka Chand(Ravi).
Other movies were Parakh(Salil C), Kala Bazar(SDB), Kohinoor(Naushad),
Bambai Ka Babu(SDB) Barsaat Ki Raat(Roshan) and Saraswati Chandra(KA).
In '62, the award went to Gharana(Ravi) and the nominees were Ganga
Jamuna(Naushad) and Jis Desh Main Ganga Behti Hai(SJ). Notable movies
were Hum Dono(Jaidev), Shola aur Shabnam(Khayyam), Jab Pyaar Kisise Hota
Hai(SJ--I don't think much of it, but the songs were popular), Sanjog(MM).
In '63 the award went to Professor(SJ). The nominees were Bees Saal
Baad(Hemant K) and Anpadh(MM). Other notables were Sahib Biwi aur
Ghulam(HemantK), Ek Musafir Ek Hasina(OPN), Baat Ek Raat Ki(SDB).
In '64 the award went to (thank God!) Taj Mahal(Roshan). The nominees
were Mere Mehboob(Naushad--tough luck, but Taj Mahal is better), and Dil
Ek Mandir(SJ). Notable movies were Bandini(SDB), Mujhe Jeene Do(Jaidev),
Gumrah(Ravi), Tere Ghar ke Samne(SDB), Meri Surat Teri Aankhen(SDB), Dil
Hi to Hai(Roshan), Phir wohi Dil Laya Hoon(OPN).
In '65 the award went to Dosti(LP) (YUCK!). The nominees were Woh Kaun
Thi(MM), and Sangam(SJ). Other notables were Leader(Naushad),
Kohraa(HemantK), Kashmir Ki Kali(OPN), Chitralekha(Roshan), Door Gagan Ki
Chaon Main(KK--God's gift to all things living)
In '66 the award went to Khandaan(Ravi). The nominees were Himalay Ki God
Main(KA), Arzoo(SJ--sounds like a sneeze, and the music is worth being
sneezed at). Notable movies are Waqt(Ravi), Mere Sanam(OPN) and Teen
Deviyan(SDB).
*****************(coffee break)*************************************
In '67 occurred the GHOR PAAP, second only to the Holocaust, IMHO. The
award went to *SOB*, Suraj(SJ). The nominees were Guide(SDB--God's gift
to life on earth) and Do Badan(Ravi). Now consider the movies Suraj beat
out, and judge for yourself, whether popularity or manipulation got it the
award. This one award contributes significantly to my dislike (note:
dislike, not hatred) of SJ. We start with Amrapali(SJ), Teesri
Kasam(SJ-yes even this is better), Anupama(HemantK--too good),
Mamta(Roshan-Brilliant), Baharen Phir Bhi Aayengi(OPN) and Mera Saya(MM).
IMHO, the award should have gone to Guide, but if not than my next choice
would have been the highly creative, innovative music of Teesri
Manzil(RDB--God's gift to all things dead, alive or yet to be born). I
rest my case. U decide if popularity alone wins the award.
****************(lunch break--what a heartwrenching, agonizing writeup in
the above para. I cried buckets)****************
In '68 the award went to Milan(LP--The songs were popular, although they
are okayish). The nominees were Upkar(KA), Humraaz(Ravi). Other movies
were Jewel Thief(SDB--far, far better, and this is my reason for disliking
LP), Baharon Ke Sapne(RDB)
In '69, the award went to Brahmachari(SJ), and the nominees were
Ankhen(Ravi) and Diwana(SJ). Notable movies were Raat Aur Din(SJ), Pyar
Ka Mausam(RDB).
In '70, the award went to Jeene Ki Raah(LP), and the nominees were
Aradhana(SDB) (need I say further on the lunacy levels of the committee?),
and Chanda aur Bijli(SJ). Notables include, Ek Phool Do Mali(Ravi).
In '71 the award went to Pehchan(SJ), and the nominees were Talash(SDB),
and Do Raaste(LP). Notables include Prem Pujari(SDB), Dastak(MM) and
Heer Ranjha(MM).
In '72 the award went to Mera Naam Joker(SJ), and the nominees were
Caravan(RDB) and Andaz(SJ). IMHO, I love Caravan, but thanks, only to
Mukesh's singing, I personally, think MNJ as not a bad choice. However, it
becomes a bad choice, when one considers, that some of the other movies
were Anand(Salil), Guddi(Vasant Desai), Tere Mere Sapne(SDB), and my
favourites Sharmilee(SDB) and Kati Patang(RDB).
In '73 the award went to Be-Iman(SJ--possibly a movie made on the way they
got some of their awards), and the nominees were Pakeezaah(GM
only--Naushad was not nominated as a co-MD), and Shor(LP). The notables
are Anubhav(Kanu Roy), Bawarchi(MM), Safar(KA), Lal Patthar (SJ), and
brace yourself-- Hare Rama Hare Krishna(RDB), Amar Prem(RDB), Jawani
Diwani(RDB), and Mere Jeevan Saathi(RDB). ....97, 98, 99, 100. Ok, I
finished beating my head against the wall. I am left positively speechless
by this, which is a good thing, since what might come out might be, er..
profane.
In '74 the award went to (naturally) Abhimaan(SDB), and the nominees were
Zanjeer(KA), Bobby(LP), Daag(LP), and Yaadon Ki Baarat(RDB). Notables are
Aa Gale Lag Ja(RDB), Namak Haram(RDB), Hanste Zakham(MM)
In '75 the award went to Kora Kagaz(KA) and the nominees were Roti Kapda
aur Makaan(LP), Aap Ki Kasam(RDB), Premnagar(SDB), Resham Ki
Dori(SJ--Who's that?). Notables are Ajnabee(RDB).
In '76 the award went to Julie(RR), and the nominees were Dulhan(LP), Khel
Khel Main(RDB), Sholay(RDB), Sanyasi(SJ--although, by now I think it
should be only a S, right?). Notables are Amanush(S. Mitra), Aandhi(RDB),
Khushboo(RDB), Mili(SDB), Chupke Chupke(SDB).
As an aside RDB was one of the nominees for Best Male Playback for
Mehbooba, Mehbooba for Sholay. The award went to KK for Dil Aisa Kisine
Mera Toda(Amanush).
In '77 the award went to Kabhi Kabhi(Khayyam) and the nominees were
Bairaag(KA), Mausam(MM), Mehbooba(RDB), and Chitchor(Ravindra Jain).
Don't remember any musically good movies right now, but if junta can come
up with names, I could check.
In '78 the award went to Amar Akbar Anthony(LP), and the nominees were
Alaap(Jaidev), Hum Kisise Kum Nahin(RDB), Kinara(RDB), and Swami(RR).
Notables are Gharonda(Jaidev), Doosra Aadmi(RR--this lost to Swami as a
nominee?), Anurodh(LP)
In '79 the award went to Satyam Shivam Sundaram(LP), and the nominees were
Don(KA), Shalimar(RDB), Des Pardes(RR), Ankhiyon ke Jharokon se(Ravindra
Jain). Notables are Muqaddar Ka Sikandar(KA), Trishul(Khayyam), Kasme
Vaade(RDB), Ghar(RDB).
In '80 the award went to Sargam(LP), and the nominees were
Noorie(Khayyam), Jaani Dushman(LP), Kala Patthar(RR), and Mr.
Natwarlal(RR). Notables are Gol Maal(RDB), Meera(Pt. Ravi Shankar).
****************************************************************************
That's it folks. I do have info till 1996, but a) I am tired of typing,
and b) I better post this before my server crashes. If anyone is
interested,I could post the rest too from 1981-1996 minus '86 and '88 when
they were not given.
Comments welcome. Hope reading it is as interesting as doing the research
was. I should get my PhD now.
Sources : Filmfare, and private notes, clippings, cuttings etc.
Ketan
A KK-Burman fan(atic)-- in case your attention wandered.
Pradeep Dubey
In article <5fkjd6$5...@lana.zippo.com>, ava...@informix.com (Abhay Avachat) writes:
|> The "Nadeem-Shravan sucks" thread (very nice subject line) has gone into
|> many different directions and dimentions than the original poster had
|> intended. Let me add a few diversions of my own ...
|>
|> >Guide lost to Suraj in 1965. A few nice songs in Suraj, but should the
|> >award have gone to Guide, than to Suraj? Is the Pope Catholic?
|>
|> I think Guide didn't have any match for "titali udi", which might have been
|> the decider in a close match.
|>
|> >Ummm.. ofcourse KK singing 3 great songs is immaterial, as well as the
|> >other Lata solo, right? Considering that Amar Prem lost to Be-imaan, it
|> >hurts. Had it lost to Pakeezaah, the poison would have been easier to
|> >swallow.
|>
|> No, it wouldn't have been. Since subjective opinions is the back-bone of
|> this thread, let me say that Pakeeza is one of the dullest soundtracks.
|> The songs are life-less. Whenever I listen to "chalate chalate .. " and
|> "chalo dildar chalo", I feel like shouting "are chalo bhi aage". You
|> consider yourself an RDB fan and compare Amar Prem with Paakeza ??
|> The 3 KK solos of Amar Prem are just what they are. You say "3 KK solos
|> of Amar Prem" and entire world knows which songs you are talking about.
|> (Oh please, don't invite me to join the Klan or even RDB club. :-) )
Abhay,
I hate to admit, but I am in complete agreement with you here :-) "Amar Prem"
is truly an "amar" soundtrack. It not just has 'good' KK solo, but
has what the master himself considered among his all-time-best.
That "chalo dildar chalo (THak THak THak THak ...)" used to create
quiet a challenge for me as a kid. I not only had to trun my transistor
off whenever I heard it, I will have to find reasons to go into neighbors
flats, and convince them to turn off theirs. This echoes and screams ...
and especially that THak THak THak ...
|>
|> BTW, why do we crib so much about the Filmfare awards ? They are given
|> according to popularity. Where does quality come into picture ? Quality
|> is subjective. Popularity is measurable. Or are we cribbing about the
|> awards being manipulated ?? I am not sure who is objecting to what.
|>
|> This has been a very interesting thread ! I like it whenever SJ are given
|> their due credit and defended. I also liked Preeti's post on Naushad and
Preeti has in fact raised a very good point. After all 'copying' should
be equally frowned upon whether it's of Kaushalyabai's Thumri or Elvis's
Rap. But Naushads of the world only scream in the latter case "butter churaaya ...
pakaDo pakaDo ...". They shut their minds off in the former case and proclaim:
waah kitnaa achchaa desi ghee ka gaana hai ... sa pa dha pa sa ... waah ji waah!
Pradeep
Ketan
On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Ketan wrote:
> BEST MD AWARD.
>
> In 1954 the award went to Naushad for Baiju B, and in '55 to SDB for Taxi
> Driver. There were no nominees, although Do Bhiga Zameen(Salil), Aar
> Paar(OPN) and Patita(SJ) could be considered instead of Baiju Bawra, and
> Jagriti(HemantK) and Boot Polish(SJ) in place of Taxi Driver.(Yes, it's
> me, Ketan, saying that)
Sorry folks, forgot to add, 2 excellent scores to the list. The first
where Baiju Bawra was in direct competition with Anarkali(CR), and Baiju
Bawra won. Thanks to Ashok for pointing this one out to me.
> In '61 the award went to (Oh my GOD!) Dil Apna Aur Preet Parayi(SJ), and
> the nominees were Mughal-E-Azam(Naushad) and Chaudvin Ka Chand(Ravi).
> Other movies were Parakh(Salil C), Kala Bazar(SDB), Kohinoor(Naushad),
> Bambai Ka Babu(SDB) Barsaat Ki Raat(Roshan) and Saraswati Chandra(KA).
The second one that was not even considered should fall in the '61
category and it is Anuradha(Pt. Ravi Shankar). Fabulous music, esp "Jaane
kaise sapnon main" and "Haaye re woh din".
Please feel free to add any more, that you may see fit.
Ketan
A KK-Burman fan(atic)
Pradeep Dubey
In article <5fn7lr$c...@noatun.cs.cornell.edu>, ve...@cs.cornell.edu (Arun Verma) writes:
|>
|> Guide lost to Suraj in '65, even though Guide is much superior
|> soundtrack than Suraj, my choice for the best soundtrack from
|> 65 would be Bahu Begum by Roshan....what gems.
|>
|> Also, Pakeezah losing out to Be-imaan in '72 (Amar Prem came out in 71,lost
|> to MNJ)
|> just takes the cake. I'd have pitched in for Hanste Zakhm too...just for
|> its two superb Lata-Madan combos.
Jeene Ki Raah over Abhimaan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have room here for another phd if I can figure this out :-)
Pradeep
Surajit A. Bose
Here's a dumb question. Is there any way to tell which songs are Shankar's
and which Jaikishan's? Or does one just have to know these things through?
I mean, are Jaikishan's songs more classically oriented, while Shankar
composes the more chord-based songs? Or did one of them favor
violin-sarangi, while the other leaned more toward sitaar-sarod? Or did
one compose piano songs, the other polkas with an accordian accompaniment?
In general, are there characteristics or hallmarks that enable one to say,
this sounds more like a Shankar song, this sounds more like a Jaikishan
song? There must be; after all, if they were essentially two different MDs
who rarely worked together on the same song, then they must have developed
different styles. It's quite rare to find two MDs whose songs can't be
distinguished. Even when there are similarities, such as between Naushad
and Ghulam Mohammed, there are also quite distinct features.
Just wondering......
s
Vinod
HI!
That's a difficult question to answer, but, in SOME cases, one can
tell. (Source- Filmfare, released just after Raj Kapoor's death in June
88). Generally, the softer tunes were composed by Jaikishen, in contrast
to his "gaylord" lifestyle. Shankar composed the ones with a lot of
orchestration- using a lot of instruments, etc. One example can be found
in AAH- the whisper-soft "Yeh shyaam ki tanhaiyan" is composed by
Jaikishen and "Janana Janana....." by Shankar. Also, it is said that
most of the title songs were composed by Shankar- specific examples
being Sangam and Jis Desh Mein Ganga Behti Hain.
Frankly, to me, it doesn't make a difference who composed which- I like
ALL their songs right from Barsaat in 1949 to Kal Aaj Aur Kal in 1972.
Later,
Vinod (a great fan of SJ)
s960...@usp.ac.fj
In article <3310BD...@xtra.co.nz>, Hemant Parikh <xtr30...@xtra.co.nz> writes:
> Winners & Nominees for 42nd Annual Filmfare Awards 1996
> *** The Winners *** AS INDICATED
>
> Best Film
> Agni Sakshi
> Bandit Queen
> Khamoshi : The Musical
> Maachis
> Raja Hindustani *** The Winner ***
>
> Best Director
> Dharmesh Darshan (Raja Hindustani)
> Gulzar (Maachis)
> Parto Ghosh (Agni Sakshi)
> Rajkumar Santoshi (Ghatak)
> Shekhar Kapur (Bandit Queen) *** The Winner ***
>
> Best Actor
> Aamir Khan (Raja Hindustani) *** The Winner ***
> Govinda (Saajan Chale Sasural)
> Nana Patekar (Agni Sakshi)
> Nana Patekar (Khamoshi : The Musical)
> Sunny Deol (Ghatak)
>
> Best Actress
> Juhi Chawla (Daraar)
> Karisma Kapoor (Raja Hindustani) *** The Winner ***
> Manisha Koirala (Khamoshi : The Musical)
> Seema Biswas (Bandit Queen)
> Tabu (Maachis)
>
> Best Supporting Actor
> Amrish Puri (Ghatak) *** The Winner ***
> Anupam Kher (Chaahat)
> Jackie Shroff (Agni Sakshi)
> Om Puri (Maachis)
> Salman Khan (Jeet)
>
> Best Supporting Actress
> Archana Puransingh (Raja Hindustani)
> Helen (Khamoshi : The Musical)
> Rekha (Khiladiyon Ka Khiladi)
> Seema Biswas (Khamoshi : The Musical) *** The Winner ***
> Tabu (Jeet)
BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS AWARD went to REKHA for kkk and not seema biswas as you
have mentioned.
> Best Artiste in a Comic Role
> Johnny Lever (Raja Hindustani)
> Kader Khan (Saajan Chale Sasural)
> Navneet Nishan (Raja Hindustani)
> Satish Kaushik (Saajan Chale Sasural) *** The Winner ***
> Shakti Kapoor (Loafer)
>
> Best Artiste in a Villain's Role
> Arbaaz Khan (Daraar) *** The Winner ***
> Ashish Vidyarthi (Is Raat Ki Subah Nahin)
> Danny Denzongpa (Ghatak)
> Milind Gunaji (Fareb)
> Naseeruddin Shah (Chaahat)
>
> Best Music Director
> Jatin-Lalit (Khamoshi : The Musical)
> Nadeem-Shravan (Raja Hindustani) *** The Winner ***
> Rajesh Roshan (Papa Kahte Hain)
> Viju Shah (Tere Mere Sapne)
> Vishal Bharadwaj (Maachis)
>
> Best Lyricist
> Gulzar (Chhod aaye hum woh galiyan / Maachis)
> Javed Akhtar (Ghar se nikalte hi / Papa Kahte Hain) *** The Winner ***
> Majrooh Sultanpuri (Baahon ke darmiyan / Khamoshi : The Musical)
> Nida Fazli (Chup tum raho / Is Raat Ki Subah Nahin)
> Sameer (Pardesi pardesi jaana nahin / Raja Hindustani)
>
> Best Playback Singer (Male)
> Abhijeet (Yeh teri aankhen jhuki jhuki / Fareb)
> Hariharan / Suresh Wadkar (Chappa chappa charkha chale / Maachis)
> Udit Narayan (Ghar se nikalte hi / Papa Kahte Hain)
> Udit Narayan (Ho nahin sakta / Diljale)
> Udit Narayan (Pardesi pardesi jaana nahin / Raja Hindustani)*** The
> Winner ***
>
> Best Playback Singer (Female)
> Alka Yagnik (Baahon Ke darmiyan / Khamoshi : The Musical)
> Alka Yagnik (Pardesi pardesi jaana nahin / Raja Hindustani)
> Alka Yagnik (Poochho zara poochho / Raja Hindustani)
> Kavita Krishnamoorthy (Aaj main upar / Khamoshi : The Musical)*** The
> Winner ***
> Kavita Krishnamoorthy (Iqraar karna mushkil hai / Agni Sakshi)
>
> Special Awards - Govinda
> Critics Award - Manisha Koirala
> Critics Award - Khamoshi ( FILM)
> Life Time Achievement Award - Dharmendra / Mumtaz
> Best Story - Gulzar ( Machis)
> Best Dialogue - Gulzar ( Machis)
> Best Screenplay - Ghatak
other awards included the debut award and choreography which you have missed:
debut male: s. singh (machis and tere mere sapne)
debut female: seema biswas (bandit queen and khamoshi)
best choreography: CHINNI PRAKASH for Ladki shahar ki ladki (RAKSHAK)
> A.R. Rahman & Lucky Ali ( Son of Mehmood) Also performed.
> The show went on till 1.30-2.00am Monday Morning
> Upon receiving the award Amir & Karishma did not give a speech as it
> was too long of a show.
> These are still accurate but un-official results. Source friends in
> Delhi & Mumbai
Ikram Ahmed Khan
s960...@usp.ac.fj wrote:
> > Best Supporting Actor
> > Amrish Puri (Ghatak) *** The Winner ***
> > Anupam Kher (Chaahat)
> > Jackie Shroff (Agni Sakshi)
> > Om Puri (Maachis)
> > Salman Khan (Jeet)
Jackie Shroff in Agni Sakshi was a "supporting actor"??
And what, pray, was he in 'Khalnayak'??
Btw, not to cast any aspersions on s96007958, but can
anybody verify that he was actually being considered
for a 'supporting' here? And Nana in Agnisakshi for
Best actor??
Later,
Ikram.
Vijay Sundararajan
In article <33242D...@raleigh.ibm.com>,
Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@raleigh.ibm.com> wrote:
>s960...@usp.ac.fj wrote:
>> > Best Supporting Actor
>> > Amrish Puri (Ghatak) *** The Winner ***
>> > Anupam Kher (Chaahat)
>> > Jackie Shroff (Agni Sakshi)
>> > Om Puri (Maachis)
>> > Salman Khan (Jeet)
>
>Jackie Shroff in Agni Sakshi was a "supporting actor"??
>And what, pray, was he in 'Khalnayak'??
I think I have pointed it out to you before do you use
that because of too much Holmes or what ?
>
>Btw, not to cast any aspersions on s96007958, but can
>anybody verify that he was actually being considered
>for a 'supporting' here? And Nana in Agnisakshi for
>Best actor??
Well, going by the above asked queries what was Siddarth in
Baazigar ? The Hero ?
I believe, the gulf in the worth of the two actors defines the
role of the "goody", when the "baddie" is a "big" star.
Probably, Nana's worth is too much for Saraf to handle.
A case which supports the other side of the above hypothesis
is AB amd NN is Parwana.
-Vijay
>
>Later,
>Ikram.
Ashok
In article <bose.2-0803...@tty2-9.tc.nd.edu>, bos...@nd.edu says...
>
>Here's a dumb question. Is there any way to tell which songs are Shankar's
>and which Jaikishan's? Or does one just have to know these things through?
>
>
>s
Why the false modesty? It is not a dumb question at all (and you know it!).
These are the approaches I have discovered/inferred:
* I have seen a few nettors use definitive-sounding sentences. e.g. They
say "Jaikishan's 'blaah blaah blaah...' ", or (far less often), "Shankar's
'yuk yuk yuk...' ". I have tried to probe how they know. All I have gotten
is mumbles about they read somewhere and that "They just know."!
** Raju Bharatan is fond of using sentences like the above. I wonder if one
can extend him the benefit of doubt. Presumably he knows by talking to the
people involved: the MDs themselves, the singers, or the assistants, et al.
He might have attended many recording sessions also. I do have misgivings
about him because of his need to appear authoritative with or without basis.
***A very interesting approach (and the only one I know with at least partial
validity) was outlined to me by an erstwhile RMIMer, Roopa Dhawan. Her method
tries to exploit the fact that we know pretty well how Shankar's music was
in the 1970s. Most of the songs attributed to the name of the duo after
Jaikishan's death are likely to be Shankar compositions. There might have been
a few songs recorded by Jaikishan, which got their release after him; it is
also possible that Shankar developed some musical ideas of Jaikishan. Nevertheless.
most of the post-Jaikishan song of SJ are likely to be Shankar's. Roopa's
idea is that by studying those songs one can establish some markers which work
as Shankar signatures. She claims that she can detect those markers in many
songs of their joint phase.
It is not a foolproof method. Particularly, it ignores the evolution of Shankar's
music over time. We know that age brings maturity but also depletes creativity.
Also, it fails to allow for mutual influences the two had on each other. But,
I think the method holds potential. (Now, if we can only have some brave folk who
would volunteeer to listen to Shankar's music of the 70s .... :))
It's too bad Ramjas College has stayed away from the cyberworld. It would have
been nice to find out her latest list!
****Finally, here's what I think is the syllogism used by most RMIMers: Handsome
is what handsome does. If it's a popular and/or well-regarded song: Well it
must have been composed by that dashing fellow. If it's a junky song: I'm sure
it is the work of that fat slob with a potato-face.
Ashok
PS: According to Raju Bharatan, Shankar was the more talented of the two.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Vijay Sundararajan wrote:
> >Jackie Shroff in Agni Sakshi was a "supporting actor"??
> >And what, pray, was he in 'Khalnayak'??
> ^^^^^
> I think I have pointed it out to you before do you use
> that because of too much Holmes or what ?
Nope. Just being religious. :)
> >Btw, not to cast any aspersions on s96007958, but can
> >anybody verify that he was actually being considered
> >for a 'supporting' here? And Nana in Agnisakshi for
> >Best actor??
Has been verified. Truly only Filmfare understands what
it does...
>
> Well, going by the above asked queries what was Siddarth in
> Baazigar ? The Hero ?
No. His was a supporting character. If not for a sudden love
interest displayed in one song, he has virtually nothing to
do. Not so, the case with Shroff!! I'll let screen time
and total lines delivered by 'em be the deciding factor.
> I believe, the gulf in the worth of the two actors defines the
> role of the "goody", when the "baddie" is a "big" star.
> Probably, Nana's worth is too much for Saraf to handle.
And now, one assumes that you will say that since Sanjay's
worth wasn't much (I agree :) ), hence Jackie can be called
a parallel lead in Khalnayak and not a supporting actor...
By this token, Amitabh Bachchan is the hero in almost all
of his films, featuring others like ShashiK, VinodK and
RishiK and so on..... whereas the latter were just
supporting actors?!!
>
> A case which supports the other side of the above hypothesis
> is AB amd NN is Parwana.
And lo and behold...... :) :)
Later,
Ikram.
TAZZ-MANIAN DEVIL
In article <33242D...@raleigh.ibm.com>, Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@raleigh.ibm.com> writes:
> s960...@usp.ac.fj wrote:
>> > Best Supporting Actor
>> > Amrish Puri (Ghatak) *** The Winner ***
>> > Anupam Kher (Chaahat)
>> > Jackie Shroff (Agni Sakshi)
>> > Om Puri (Maachis)
>> > Salman Khan (Jeet)
>
> And what, pray, was he in 'Khalnayak'??
indeed, something to think about.
but it is the truth and the only truth.
> Btw, not to cast any aspersions on s96007958, but can
> anybody verify that he was actually being considered
> for a 'supporting' here? And Nana in Agnisakshi for
> Best actor??
i understand your questionning...i too thought that nana would atleast be
nominated for best villain for agnisakshi like rukhster was nominated for his
role in darr.
> Later,
> Ikram.
Vijay Sundararajan
In article <33257F...@raleigh.ibm.com>,
Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@raleigh.ibm.com> wrote:
>Vijay Sundararajan wrote:
>> >Jackie Shroff in Agni Sakshi was a "supporting actor"??
>> >And what, pray, was he in 'Khalnayak'??
>> I think I have pointed it out to you before do you use
>> that because of too much Holmes or what ?
>
>Nope. Just being religious. :)
>
>> >anybody verify that he was actually being considered
>> >for a 'supporting' here? And Nana in Agnisakshi for
>> >Best actor??
>
>it does...
>
>>
>> Well, going by the above asked queries what was Siddarth in
>> Baazigar ? The Hero ?
>
>No. His was a supporting character. If not for a sudden love
>interest displayed in one song, he has virtually nothing to
>do. Not so, the case with Shroff!! I'll let screen time
>and total lines delivered by 'em be the deciding factor.
>
>> I believe, the gulf in the worth of the two actors defines the
>> role of the "goody", when the "baddie" is a "big" star.
>> Probably, Nana's worth is too much for Saraf to handle.
>
>And now, one assumes that you will say that since Sanjay's
>worth wasn't much (I agree :) ), hence Jackie can be called
>a parallel lead in Khalnayak and not a supporting actor...
>By this token, Amitabh Bachchan is the hero in almost all
>of his films, featuring others like ShashiK, VinodK and
>RishiK and so on..... whereas the latter were just
>supporting actors?!!
Of course, although in AB's initial phase your conclusions would be wrong.
As AB was a small actor in the begining. A case in exception is VK who
was almost as big both literally and figuratively as AB was for a brief
period.
>
>>
>> A case which supports the other side of the above hypothesis
>> is AB amd NN is Parwana.
>
>And lo and behold...... :) :)
You consider the initial period of AB mentioned above; the given statment
will appear much more profound to you :)
-Vijay
>
>Later,
>Ikram.
e...@ts.com
I saw the Filmfare Awards recently (Thanks to a friend from India who
sent me a tape)
A lot of you have been debating who won, why they should have or not
won, etc.
What you don't know is that this years Filmfare Awards were interupted
in a very strange way.
Madhuri was performing songs from her films. All of a sudden, the
Filmfare Brodcast was interupted with a message stating that Madhuri
left in the middle of the song (Tamma Tamma) due to some problem that
occured during the show.
Towards the end, many of the people who received awards, such as
Govinda,
the Moranis, Shekar Kappoor were told that the show had gone over time
and they couldn't make any speeches.
Aamir did not even show up, and Karishma came on stage, smiled and the
brodcast ended.
In post show interviews, it turned out that the police was upset with
the show going past midnight.
Others said that many people wanted to attend the show, and that the
police were having a hard time controlling the crowd.
The bottom line is, we don't know what the hell happened at this event,
which was one of the best FF Awards in recent times.
If any of you know what really happened, post it right away.
Pankaj Kakkar
What actually happened is that the show went past 12:00 and the police
siezed the audio equipmnt of the event. Hence it jad to be stopped.
About the same thing happene in Lata's recent show too, except that the
police did not stop the show, instead arrested one of the sound
engineers after the show, creating some controversy.
Pankaj
--
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