Border on DVD with English subtitles
Mo
Indian Bollywood war movie with very good optional English
subtitles by Eros from www.indiaplaza.com or
www.superdvd.com
The picture quality is very very good , maybe not quite as
good as those mastered by superdigital which has better
mastering than almost any Hollywood movie I have seen , but
still better than any VHS tape.
Bollywood movies because of better background score I think
are better at emotional bits -see for example when the hero
is dying in the Indian movie with the background lament of
female singing and compare it to that in Private Ryan.
Kudos first to Eros for using both sides of the DVD and not
trying to compress the three hour movie on to one side - a
bit unecessary however as they could have had dual layers on
one side . The sound coming from alternate speakers even on
a stereo TV and not throught the amplifiers was just great.
Now the brickbats . Why oh why do the distributors insist on
CUTTING the best bits out of a movie ? . For example the
Sanskrit prayer song of peace at sunrise before the planes
took off was electrifying in the cinema , here it has been
deleted !
The battle song -'Hindustan hindustan' -another superb
song/dialog has also been mutilated beyond belief . The
whole point is that it made the war seemed less aggressive
as the long dialog tells the history of India from ancient
times and the great reluctance with which it goes to war.
Cutting the dialog makes this into an ordinary movie instead
of a truly great one. Javed Akhtar's final song 'Mere
Dushmen , mere bhai' has also been trimmed but not by much .
Only those who saw the uncut version at the mattinee show
and those who listen to the complete songs on cassettes will
appreciate what a crime Eros have committed .
And worst of all there are no English subtitles for the
songs , the biggest strong point of Bollywood movies ! All
should write letters of protest to Eros and ask them to
restore the cuts and get the mastering redone by
superdigital .
If anybody orders this movie from the above two web sites at
about $25 , do get one like 'Gharwali Baharwali' or any
other mastered by superdigital to see just how good a DVD
can be at its best.
There is so much capacity on DVDs - 9 hours on two sides
with double layers that distributors could put thousands of
ads on the unused parts - and could almost give the movie
discs away free or say under $10 -killing piracy dead and
making huge profits..
Mo
Eros are Pardes -story of an Indian girl coming to the USA
from an Indian village to get married into a rich family and
finding out life is not what she though it would be ( highly
recommend) , Gupt , Raja Hindustani and Border.
Major Saab does not have subtitles. Again the picture
quality although good is not in the same class as those
mastered by superdigital eg 'Dulhe Raja' is another superb
DVD . I cant quite tell what is wrong with the Eros ones -
others more technically qualified could - is it bleed or
overexposure or what . For eg compare Dulhe Raja from
superdigital with Pardes from Eros.
DVDs can bring great revenue to those countries with a
smaller output of films like Pakistan or Iran . As the rich
in the USA almost all have or will have these machines -now
done to $300 within a year their residents in these
countries could afford to buy these discs in their millions
and revitalise their film industries..
Mo
superhit is another movie on DVD with English subtitles but
the picture quality is no match for the superdigital ones.
Now that the big boys are coming into DVD it is obvious that
the love and care and attention to detail that the first
ones were made is no longer there and that there may not be
such superclear digital video discs from Bollywood again .
So if somebody really wants to see what good quality DVD as
good say LA Confidential or Contact then those 15 or so
movies made by superdigital are likely to become collectors
items . Get them now from superdvd.com or indiaplaza.com..
Mo
ones ( by Digital Electonic Entertainment). The maximum
number of lines of resolution by DVD I think is about 500
and off the top of my head I would guess that its the
following -others who have seen Eros and Superdigital or
know more about DVD do please add your comments .
Maximum DVD 500
Superdigital 475
Broadcast TV 400
Sony Betamax 300
VHS 250
Eros DVD 200
Pirate Video 100
So Pirate video watchers will see a big improvement but what
Eros are putting out is NOT in the same league as other
DVDs.
The sound is Dolby Digital 5.1 which is very good indeed and
of course the subtitles are useful .
I got told off by somebody on Rmim BUT with 9 hours on each
DVD for dual layer double sided discs it should be possible
all the movie songs of about 20 movies in high quality video
and Dolby digital audio for aout $25 !
Even if they kept half an hour for still picture advts they
could get thousands . Even say 500 from top airlines ,
restaurants , lawyers etc. at say $200 each would give them
$100,000 to master each DVD perfectly and since the
mastering costs are only aout $3 a layer they could well
afford to sell the DVD for less than $15 .
It is really an exciting time if they take proper
oppurtunities and pay attention to the quality of
mastering..
Mo
is that the govt insisted on quality standards.
Maybe India and the world govts could insist that any DVD
sold must have at least a greater than 400 line resolution
(of the 500 possible ) , with heavy fines for those who
bring out sustandard discs unless they have recieved prior
permission from the govt for some reason eg for some of the
old black and white movies .
DVD is a very exciting new medium for music , filmi and folk
- over 70 minutes of LOSSLESS compression and for movies and
it would be a pity if it was ruined by the distributors with
sustandard products. Apart from superdigital the other DVDs
are not even upto good VHS standard..
Adam Lock
> DVD is a very exciting new medium for music , filmi and folk
> - over 70 minutes of LOSSLESS compression and for movies and
> it would be a pity if it was ruined by the distributors with
> sustandard products. Apart from superdigital the other DVDs
> are not even upto good VHS standard..
DVD uses MPEG2 which isn't lossless compression.
--
Adam Lock - lo...@iol.ie
Adam Lock
>
> Isnt there talk of a new audio only DVD for 70 mins per side
> or so which is going to be lossless ? ..
Sorry, I thought you were referring to films. I believe there is a
lossless compression scheme for audio but details are still a bit
sketchy. I did read some info about it having 96Khz 24-bit sampling on
one of the DVD news sites but I can't remember where I saw this info!
Mo
not up to the DVD standard , the sound which is Dolby
Digital 5.1 is very good indeed even on an ordinary TV..
Mo
or so which is going to be lossless ? ..
Adam Lock <lo...@iol.ie> wrote:
DVD uses MPEG2 which isn't lossless compression.
--
Adam Lock - lo...@iol.ie
Mo
is that the govt insisted on quality standards.
Maybe India and the world govts could insist that any DVD
sold must have at least a greater than 400 line resolution
(of the 500 possible ) , with heavy fines for those who
bring out sustandard discs unless they have recieved prior
permission from the govt for some reason eg for some of the
old black and white movies .
Mo
up to a separate sound system and yet I have been surprised
how much better the Dolby Digital 5.1 discs mastered by Eros
DEI -Border and Pardes - sound compared to the Dolby AC 2
-by Superdigital eg Dulhe Raja and Yes Boss Anybody know the
reason for this ?
The two movies Border and Pardes have English subtitles and
those together with any one by Superdigital for their superb
picture quality are recommended for anyone who has never
seen a South Asian movie..
Dave Dahl
Dave
Mo <10033...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
<71i6oj$t6k$2...@eros.clara.net>...
Mo
Matt
surround, even if u hook it up to a 4 channel system it will sound better
than 2...
Mo <10033...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
<71i6oj$t6k$2...@eros.clara.net>...
ani...@my-dejanews.com
10033...@compuserve.com (Mo) wrote:
> 10033...@compuserve.com (Mo) wrote:
>
> I have a stereo large screen TV and my DVD is not yet hooked
> up to a separate sound system and yet I have been surprised
> how much better the Dolby Digital 5.1 discs mastered by Eros
> DEI -Border and Pardes - sound compared to the Dolby AC 2
> -by Superdigital eg Dulhe Raja and Yes Boss Anybody know the
> reason for this ?
Mo,
If your sound is not being processed by a Dolby Digital(AC3) processor, how
can you tell the difference unless your TV has one built in, which I am
quite sure is not the case since there is no TV out there with one of these
processors built in. If the input to the TV is not digital, then what does
it matter if the sound is 2 channel or 5.1? I could understand you comparing
the picture quality instead of sound when your speakers are not hooked up yet.
Eros has come out with 'sholay' DVD recently. Can you let me know how the
picture and sound quality are and if it is a widescreen version.
Also, it is nice to see you praising someone other than Superdigital for a
change:-)
--
Cheers,
Anil P. Hingorani
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Mo
..
Mo
>If u hook it up to a 5.1 channel system it will sound WAY better. I mean its
surround, even if u hook it up to a 4 channel system it will
sound better
than 2...<
connected to the external amplifier) does the sound recorded
by Dolby digital 5.1 sound so much better than Dolby two
channel which I assume is mastered for just 2 speakers ,
when the TV only has stereo speakers ? .
The songs on the Eros DVDs ( DEI)-Dolby 5.1 are a real
pleasure to listen to , although the picture quality is not
even good VHS , while on Superdigital the picture is
fantastic !! and the sound just good (on ordinary TV) on
Dolby 2
Mo
>If your sound is not being processed by a Dolby Digital(AC3) processor, how
can you tell the difference unless your TV has one built i<
understand why Dolby 5 should sound so much better than
Dolby 2 channel -unless its the processing.
Eros or DEI must be condemned for not bringing out a perfect
DVD picture for Border , Gupt , Raja Hindustani , Major Saab
(all with English subtitles) . These are all superhits and
its criminal not to give them even a good VHS - and there is
no excuse as Superdigital has already shown than Bollywood
movies can be mastered to the best standards.
The sound on Eros DVDs is really first class however. I am
going to buy all 16 of Superdigital DVDs - 2 copies of each
as I am sure that they are going to be collectors items now
that Eros and other bad boys with the money are bringing out
poor picture quality discs..
ani...@my-dejanews.com
Just a comment on your terminology:
There is no AC2. Dolby Digital 5.1 is technically called AC3.
Also, what is an ORDINARY TV???:-)
Stewart Watson
ani...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <71kgmh$muv$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <71i6oj$t6k$2...@eros.clara.net>,
> 10033...@compuserve.com (Mo) wrote:
>> 10033...@compuserve.com (Mo) wrote:
>>
>> I have a stereo large screen TV and my DVD is not yet hooked
>> up to a separate sound system and yet I have been surprised
>> how much better the Dolby Digital 5.1 discs mastered by Eros
>> DEI -Border and Pardes - sound compared to the Dolby AC 2
>> -by Superdigital eg Dulhe Raja and Yes Boss Anybody know the
>> reason for this ?
>
>Mo,
>
>quite sure is not the case since there is no TV out there with one of these
Oh yes there is. The Toshiba 32mw7db
>processors built in. If the input to the TV is not digital, then what does
>it matter if the sound is 2 channel or 5.1? I could understand you
comparing
>the picture quality instead of sound when your speakers are not hooked up
yet.
><SNIP>
Mo
>Just a comment on your terminology:
There is no AC2. Dolby Digital 5.1 is technically called
AC3.
Also, what is an ORDINARY TV???:-)<
Ordinary TV ie the DVD is played just through TV which might
have internal speakers . Non ordinary TV when the DVD is
also separatedly connect to a hifi sound system.
Dolby Digital 2 is used by superdigital , while Eros
masters in Dolby Digital 5.1
Martin Day
how
>>can you tell the difference unless your TV has one built in, which I am
>>quite sure is not the case since there is no TV out there with one of
these
>Oh yes there is. The Toshiba 32mw7db
And the 4:3 ratio Tosh 3787DB.
Cheers
Martin
Mo
these are my impressions - those with technical knowledge
please add details of specs
Digital Electronics International ( Eros -Pardes , Gupt ,
Border)
Picture quality - poor , Sound -fantastic , English
subtitles
World Wide Entertainment - 2001 , Mere Sapno, Sajan chale
Picture -good but flicker , Sound -good , English subtitles
Superdigital -Dulhe Raja, Ishq, Geeta
Picture -fantastic , Sound -good
Movies can be ordered for $25 from www.superdvd.com and
www.indiaplaza.com
The GOI must bring in a law to ensure minimum standards on
DVD - at least 400 lines with Dolby 5.1 - othwerwise the big
distributors will just ruin the medium with substandard
prints..
Niraj Agarwalla
: The GOI must bring in a law to ensure minimum standards on
: DVD - at least 400 lines with Dolby 5.1 - othwerwise the big
: distributors will just ruin the medium with substandard
: prints..
The GOI can't even curb video piracy, what makes you think it
can enforce this kind of standard? Quality must be demanded by
the consumer, and the consumer alone.
--
Niraj Agarwalla -- ni...@shore.net -- http://www.shore.net/~niraj
Mo
doctor who has not been certified by the govt. ? The big
distributors hold the copyrights to these movies and if they
give poor quality DVDs the public has no opition but to buy
them if they want to watch that movie.
That is the reason why I and millions of others stopped
watching video tape -the quality was deliberately spolit to
'prevent copying'. Now they will do the same to DVD . If the
govt brought in legislation it would protect the consumer
and increase the market tenfold. It is essential that the
govt bring in minimum quality standards in terms of
resolution , uncut movies etc..
LASER EAST
Dear Sir
This is to introduce Laser East, a young professional company converting Indian
films onto DVD. We hold the world wide rights (except USA, Canada and India)
for KOYLA, VIRARSAT, JUDWA and JUDAAI which will be avaialble shortly.
We shall have many more titles and unlike many of our competitors, we respect
business etiquette and inevitably the companies prides it self on the high
level of customer service.
We shall also be developing a unique website available in February 1999.
I hope you will visit the site and contact us regarding both your views and and
queries you may have.
Yours sincerely
Sunny Sandhu
Customer Services
LASER EAST
Dear Sir
This is to introduce Laser east, a young professional company developing Indian
DVDs.
We shall be distributing KOYLA, VIRARSAT, JUDWA and JUDAAI very shortly and I
trust you will find the quality second to none.
I look forward to you views.
Mo
This is what the cover of this disc says about DVD in
general
-best video and audio quality in your home
-super sharp picture
-500 lines of resolution
-2 times better quality than VHS
-20% better quality than laser disc
-digital stereo and surround sound
-dolby digital stereo sound
-easy access to songs
-index marks to go to desired scene
-does not wear out on repeat playback
All this is true of the 16 Superdigital discs from
www.superdvd.com or www.indiaplaza.com BUT it is NOT TRUE of
this Sholay disc from Eros .
In fact its like watching an old black and white movie of
the late 1800s - poor resolution and annoying flicker .
What excuse does Eros have for putting out such awful discs
when Superdigital was out first with Bollywood movies and
for the last six months has been showing just what magic is
possible with this new medium of DVD ?
The GOI must immediately stop this nonsense and compel
quality standards. All DVD discs coming out of India .
Pakistan and other countries must conform to 500 lines of
resolution , good colours and stereo sound unless for some
historical movies they have got exemption . Trying to sell
'DVD' of poor quality should merit a heavy fine if not a
jail sentence . It is deception on the public. After all
when we buy a non pirate music cassette we expect a certain
quality of reproduction..
The bad news is that Eros have ruined not only Sholay , but
also Gupt , Border , Pardes , Raja Hindustani and Major
Saab and have rights for HAHK and Dil Se . It is criminal !
They should get them remastered by Superditigal and see the
market boom . I cant bear to watch Eros discs even once and
wont buy anymore , no matter how big a hit movie it was ,
but I love the Superdigital ones - Dulhe Raja -Ankhiyo se
mare goli ( She shoots bullets from her eyes ) - is filmed
in such glorious detail that one can watch it again and
again even though the sound quality is good but not as good
as Eros discs. It is however the picture quality one wants
in videos .
I am looking forward to the TV serial -Mahabharata which has
been transferred on to DVD by Superdigital . If they have
done as good a job on it as for the movies then it opens up
a huge new market for folk music and plays from South Asian
and other countries .
I hope the folks at Eros do not take this criticism the
wrong way. They have the rights to the blockbusters and if
they give the public the quality that DVD can provide , then
at least ten million well of families in Middle East , USA ,
UK and South Asia will literally buy millions of DVDs of
each movie and give a big fillip to the entertainment and
cultural industries in these countries.
Pakistani producers should get their programs mastered by
Superdigital - its better even than most Hollywood movies !.
I will definitely buy shares in the company if it ever
comes to the market !..
Niraj Agarwalla
: That is a very naive free market view. Would you go to a
: doctor who has not been certified by the govt. ? The big
: distributors hold the copyrights to these movies and if they
: give poor quality DVDs the public has no opition but to buy
: them if they want to watch that movie.
But there is an option, Mo-- don't watch it.
: That is the reason why I and millions of others stopped
: watching video tape -the quality was deliberately spolit to
: 'prevent copying'. Now they will do the same to DVD . If the
: govt brought in legislation it would protect the consumer
: and increase the market tenfold. It is essential that the
: govt bring in minimum quality standards in terms of
: resolution , uncut movies etc..
I stopped watching Indian movies for the very same reason that
you did. Unfortunately, many people still continue to rent them.
And the indifference of the producers does not help the situation
any. And I don't see how any additional legislation will help
the situation any. Copyright and piracy laws are already on the
books. Just enforce those laws.
Mo
> Copyright and piracy laws are already on the
books. Just enforce those laws. <
The problem is the quality of the 'original ' tapes and
discs. The govt has a duty to enforce a quality standard in
terms of picture quality etc. in drugs , blank videotapes
and recorded tapes and discs .
The distributors are too thick to understand that by
bringing out inferior quality products they are killing the
market and the govt will be doing them and the public a
favour. BTW many Hollywood movies are also badly mastered.
Once you part with your money you dont want to find that you
have been cheated. Watch a few of the Superdigital discs to
see just how enjoyable perfect picture quality Hindi movies
can be..
Mo
Dragun32
good quality. (Thillana Mohanambal on VGP) The copies of movies in Indian
stores are usually LP or SLP dubs off of the original. Indian audio and video
media has a long long way to go. If America can restore 'Vertigo', a film which
has been badly damaged, or a film from the Silent era, surely India can put out
a better copy of movies made in the 60s.
Remove 'KILLSPAM' to reply.
Newspaper Headline: "Kids make nutritious snacks."
Dragun32
ones! I would like to see 'Kathalika Neramillai' in glorious Eastman color on
DVD, restored properly! Yay SuperDigital!!!
Niraj Agarwalla
: Have you ever seen an original tape copy of an Indian movie? They are of pretty
: good quality. (Thillana Mohanambal on VGP) The copies of movies in Indian
: stores are usually LP or SLP dubs off of the original. Indian audio and video
: media has a long long way to go. If America can restore 'Vertigo', a film which
: has been badly damaged, or a film from the Silent era, surely India can put out
: a better copy of movies made in the 60s.
I agree with you on this. Lot of the best movies in cinema are the old black &
whites. I prefer the older movies to the new ones, anyway. I wonder what is the
state of such old films? Are they being taken well-taken cared of? Restoring
such films are prohibitably-expensive (Vertigo cost over $1 million to restore).
Regardless, if they put them on DVD I would purchase them like crazy. I think
they would make more money then the new ones. Of course this is just my opinion.
Niraj Agarwalla
: ni...@shore.net (Niraj Agarwalla) wrote:
: > Copyright and piracy laws are already on the
: books. Just enforce those laws. <
: The problem is the quality of the 'original ' tapes and
: discs. The govt has a duty to enforce a quality standard in
: terms of picture quality etc. in drugs , blank videotapes
: and recorded tapes and discs .
But the government doesn't enforce the standards it has right
now; passing more legislation would just be an exercise in futility.
: The distributors are too thick to understand that by
: bringing out inferior quality products they are killing the
: market and the govt will be doing them and the public a
: favour. BTW many Hollywood movies are also badly mastered.
Someone somewhere is making a killing pirating these movies.
Sometimes I think it's the distributors themselves, but that
is just speculation on my part. In terms of videotape, Hollywood
offers a far superior product, even if you think they are
badly mastered. At least both the US movie industry and US
government takes video piracy seriously.
: Once you part with your money you dont want to find that you
: have been cheated. Watch a few of the Superdigital discs to
: see just how enjoyable perfect picture quality Hindi movies
: can be..
Don't need to convince me. I stopped watching Hindi movies on
pirated video years ago. I look forward to DVD someday; as
anything is better than what we have right now.
Mo
distributors dont think anyone will bother making copies ..
Mo
> I look forward to DVD someday; as
anything is better than what we have right now.<
bad ? There are only a couple of plants in the world which
can make DVDs so the govt could insist on quality standards
and give south asian culture a big boost..
Niraj Agarwalla
: What's the point , if the distributors make the DVDs just as
: bad ? There are only a couple of plants in the world which
: can make DVDs so the govt could insist on quality standards
: and give south asian culture a big boost..
If they can make it just as bad, then what's the even the point of
releasing movies on DVD? Why not just continue to release them on
video?
Are you sure there only two plants capable of making DVDs? Aren't
they just as easy to make as CDs and CD-ROM (I'm asking because I
don't know; if anyone out there is willing to enlighten me on this
subject is welcome to do so)? And if there are two plants, where
are they? Unless one of these two plants are located in India, how
do expect the GOI to compel these plants to keep high standards,
even though it is the responsibility of the producers of the film
to do so?
Mo
consumer . You cant excuse a trader who underweighs a
product by saying dont buy from him . There should be no
excuses.
If producers are told they must supply good standard DVDs
then they risk prosecution if they refuse to comply. Japan
built up a huge manufacturing base and export industry by
insisting on minimum quality standards. South Asian
countries must do the same especially in their strong fields
like movies , videos etc..
Dragun32
movies. You probably know of the 9 Satyajit Ray movies that Columbia Tristar
has restored and released on video. I have 6 of them.
They've restored the following:
Pather Panchali
Aparajito
Apur Sansar (World of Apu on the cover)
Mahanagar
Jalsaghar
Devi
Teen Kanya (without 'Monihara')
Jana Aranya
Charulata
Even Pather Panchali looks great. I just hope that our vintage films
(especially the very first ones) aren't lost to time. The nine titles listed
above very well could have been. (Ironically, there was a fire in the room that
housed the negatives of some of Ray's movies and it damaged them beyond
salvation. Luckily, there were backup copies.)
Soma and Manas Mandal
> I think that the Indian studios should let an American studio restore their old
> movies. You probably know of the 9 Satyajit Ray movies that Columbia Tristar
> has restored and released on video. I have 6 of them.
> They've restored the following:
>
> Pather Panchali
> Aparajito
> Apur Sansar (World of Apu on the cover)
> Mahanagar
> Jalsaghar
> Devi
> Teen Kanya (without 'Monihara')
> Jana Aranya
> Charulata
I would buy all 9 at the drop of a hat if they were released on DVD. How do I
convince Columbia?
Manas
PS: Teen Kanya without Monihara is "Du Kanya"? :-)