Swallowing vs. facials?
JD44560
have a RAME vote? I find facials a total bore, but can't get enough of swallow
vids.
Strange, since the erotic element (humiliation, domination) is the same for
both.
JD
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Parodox321
Inari
Vachs can be in one of the Down The Hatch fims
Steph
humiliation? First, I'll never understand why humiliation of any kind is
erotic, but perhaps that's just because I'm a woman. When we swallow in real
life, we usually do it to show our man that we love every part of him, that
we love being able to make him cum (and because it makes clean up easier :)
I know I'm getting off-topic here, but I keep seeing posts equating
humiliation with eroticism. Why would any of you fantasize about humiliating
women? Do women take away your self-esteem - is this fantasy is your
revenge?
There's a big difference between domination and humiliation - domination is
about control - humilation is about depriving one of self-respect.
On Topic: I'd like to see the orgasm relate to the premise of the scene.
-Steph
http://www.adultdvdtalk.com
"JD44560" <jd4...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:rame.982059616p18412@bash...
Dave Cummings
of cum being deposited onto her tongue or into her mouth so as to make sure
the guy actually is unloading and not faking it--then, she can immediately
use her mouth to take and swallow the rest of it!
Dave
"JD44560" <jd4...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:rame.982059616p18412@bash...
liveslow
news:rame.982113605p26277@bash...
> Don't want to start anything, but why is the erotic element of swallowing
=
> humiliation? First, I'll never understand why humiliation of any kind is
> erotic, but perhaps that's just because I'm a woman. When we swallow in
real
> life, we usually do it to show our man that we love every part of him,
that
> we love being able to make him cum (and because it makes clean up easier
:)
>
Amen, Steph !! I'll never understand the whole humiliation thing
myself. Oh yeah, agree with you on the cleanup thing......prefer the
swallow to the "siphon" any day !! :-)
> I know I'm getting off-topic here, but I keep seeing posts equating
> humiliation with eroticism. Why would any of you fantasize about
humiliating
> women? >
"Domination" or control I can understand (for some folks), "humiliation"
just seems a little disturbing.
> > On Topic: I'd like to see the orgasm relate to the premise of the scene.
>
> -Steph
LOL!! Scene specific orgasms........I like it!!
live slow
"Sail fast, live slow."
Mike Paul
> Don't want to start anything, but why is the erotic element of swallowing =
> humiliation?
NO!
Look at the thread about Annette Haven. She thought *facials* were
demeaning. Others agree.
Can't go in, can't go on: pretty soon, no place is safe for semen...
> First, I'll never understand why humiliation of any kind is
> erotic, but perhaps that's just because I'm a woman. When we swallow in
real
> life, we usually do it to show our man that we love every part of him, that
> we love being able to make him cum (and because it makes clean up easier :)
And this didn't strike you as a possibility for why swallowing would be
popular among men?...
> I know I'm getting off-topic here, but I keep seeing posts equating
> humiliation with eroticism. Why would any of you fantasize about
humiliating
> women? Do women take away your self-esteem - is this fantasy is your
> revenge?
You'll find fans of both on *both* sides of that.
There are posts drooling over 'actresses', and posts about 'cocksockets'.
Whatcha gonna do?...
> -Steph
> http://www.adultdvdtalk.com
Mike Paul
Just roll with it, and maintain your own sense of manners...
Frank Simmons
>Don't want to start anything, but why is the erotic element of swallowing =
>humiliation?
I almost commented as well, Steph - for that matter, a facial doesn't have to
be humiliation either - it all depends upon the attitude of the female
involved. Sure, bukakke style facials are humiliating, but one where the
girl
gets off on it because it's so "nasty" is a totally different ball of wax.
>First, I'll never understand why humiliation of any kind is
>erotic, but perhaps that's just because I'm a woman.
Well, I don't understand it either and I'm not a woman - but in my case it my
be because I *like* women.
>I know I'm getting off-topic here, but I keep seeing posts equating
>humiliation with eroticism. Why would any of you fantasize about humiliating
>women? Do women take away your self-esteem - is this fantasy is your
>revenge?
Not totally off-topic, Steph - just change the question to "why do you enjoy
watching movies where women are humliated?" Bingo - back on topic. And I
would really like to hear the answers, because I don't understand it either.
Frank
** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Nikki, Kristara, Ali; Those Were The
Days **
Tim Evanson
>
>Don't want to start anything,
Actually: PLEASE DO! :)
>but why is the erotic element of swallowing =
>humiliation? First, I'll never understand why humiliation of any kind is
>erotic, but perhaps that's just because I'm a woman. When we swallow in real
>life, we usually do it to show our man that we love every part of him, that
>we love being able to make him cum (and because it makes clean up easier :)
Or, in my case: I like the taste, I like the feel in my mouth, I like the
way it gives a guy triple-pleasure to keep sucking his cock while he's
cumming, there's an intense emotional component to "exchanging bodily
fluids" (which is why condoms -- particularly during oral sex -- suck
big-time), and there's a real joy in the spontaneity of swallowing. (That
last-minute decision to swallow or let it nail my face or jack him off onto
the floor. The surprise on his face. The way it's a petty sort of
domination and control over the sex act -- even though the guy has had
control while he's been fucking my mouth.)
There's precious little about swallowing that is humiliating.
Actually, in my personal experience, the men I've known who've been averse
to cumming in my mouth are usually the ones who have severe inhibitions
about sex. They're the ones who can't accept sex, who hae trouble handling
sex, who work VERY HARD to maintain society's strict moral rules about what
is acceptable and what is not, who cannot see the joy in sex and
uninhibited sex but rather are completely conflicted about it.
Which is not to say that anyone here is that way. I'm just saying that's
what I've encountered with people I have met. Your mileage may differ.
I'm not a real doctor, but I play one on television.
Point of fact: That very spontaneity is what's lacking in today's gay
porn. (For example.) EVERY cumshot is spilled onto the floor. The
occasional scene may show a guy taking it on his cheek. But the moment he
turns his head, you KNOW there's none of that control, no exchange, no deep
emotional chords being plucked. NOTHING. With 80s, condomless porn, you
never knew what was going to happen. Would he push his still-spurting dick
back into that ass? Would the guy sucking cock take the cum on his tongue?
Aim the spray into his mouth? Let it douse his eyes and nose? Turn his
head? Keep sucking cock and make the other guy writhe in pleasure?
I remember the opening scene in "Making It Big." A young Ameri-Asian boy
(playing at being the "experienced porn star who is now the front-office
boy") is being sucked by an older man (circa 35 years old) with a full,
trimmed beard (who is playing at being the "serious older man who runs the
porn business"). After some oral and anal sex, the older guy sucks off the
younger one. When the boy cums, he surprising lays a THICK couple of
streams of jizz in the guy's beard. Not much gets in the man's mouth.
The wonder of the scene is: The look of disappointment on the older guy's
face is PRECIOUS! The shocking sight of those incredibly thick streams of
cum -- thick as condensed milk it is! -- on the guy's dark-brown beard is
WILDLY AROUSING. The sight of the guy trembling ever so slightly as he
licks his lips to taste the slightest amount of cum that's dribbled onto
his lips is WONDERFUL. Watching him try to stay in character as he CLEARLY
wants to start digging his tongue into his beard to taste that sweet, sweet
boy-cum....it just makes me WRITHE in joy.
Sadly, you won't see a thing like that today.
If there's anything I've learned by reading RAME's straight posts, it's
this: Straight porn is 10,000 times better than gay porn. Gay porn is
stilted, dry, formulaic, INHIBITED. The campy faux-leather-domination of
"The Final Link" can't even BEGIN to compare to the realism of "Slap Happy."
It says something that gay men pass around MPEGs of "Slap Happy" and get
off on the huge dicks and extreme oral sex, and rarely pass around clips
from gay porn.
>I know I'm getting off-topic here, but I keep seeing posts equating
>humiliation with eroticism. Why would any of you fantasize about humiliating
>women? Do women take away your self-esteem - is this fantasy is your
>revenge?
>
>There's a big difference between domination and humiliation - domination is
>about control - humilation is about depriving one of self-respect.
While I agree for the most part, I can also see the value in role-play.
Playing at being the "big, bad leatherman with the nipple-torture fetish"
is one way to have sex with the hot Marine trolling for sex at the Eagle.
:) It's the entire idea of "being someone you're not." It's playing at
being "the man you love to hate." Sure Spike is a vampire. Sure he's
evil! But can't Buffy give him ONE CHANCE? (Can you tell I just finished
watching "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"? :) )
There's also the concept of "no consequences." Wouldn't it be great to be
Ah-nold in "Commando," blowing hundreds of people away (minus the guilt and
murder charges) just because they kidnapped your daughter (minus the trauma
to her, the improbability of her suddenly loving you after you neglected
her for 16 years first). Wouldn't it be great to be Danny Bliss in "Gang
Bang: Towel Boy" and have 8 hot black studs fucking you for hours --
without the legs cramps, the raw ass, the exhaustion, the way some fool
used Wet with Non-Ox-9 lubricant (the kind that anesthetizes your butt!),
the sore dick after jacking off for 5 hours while they fuck you, the limp
dicks, the lack of cum after each man's shot three times already, the way
Guy #6 has Godzilla-breath, the way Guy #2 can't fuck worth shit and you
wish he'd go away.
There's a certain element of domination and control to humiliation, too.
In some ways, the two are analogs of the same feeling.
BUT, so long as it's the "no consequences" role-play kind, the person who
enjoys humiliation is drawing more on fantasy than on any real desire to
humiliate.
I don't know how to parse the difference on film, though. I certainly am
not psychic enough to know when Joe Blow is really getting off on choking
Suzie Pornstar, and when Joe Blow is just acting. I don't know when Suzie
Pornstar is fucked up and letting herself actually be humiliated, and when
she's just acting to make a buck and is completely bored by the whole
thing. (Although, I AM psychic enough to predict this weekend's Powerball
numbers. Email me for them. :) )
>On Topic: I'd like to see the orgasm relate to the premise of the scene.
To quote Lt. Frank Drebbin in "The Naked Gun": "Oh, and just one more
thing. I faked every orgasm."
Tim #1
Michael
cheeks, eyes, hair, ears etc.
Swallowing does nothing for me (i.e. watching it).
The Japanese seem to excel at this, especially with the first 15-20 guys in
a bukkake scene. After this many the jizz liquefies and just drips off the
face.
schwenko
The Serpent
find swallowing scenes to be more of a turn on. However there are two
different types of swallowing scenes: "Prearranged Swallowing" and
"Undirected Swallowing." I personally like "Undirected Swallowing" scenes
the best. Rodney's "I swallow" vids are great but because he has a
prearranged agreement with the actress beforehand to ensure that she will be
swallowing it kinda loses its eroticism for me. Anabolic's last two
installments of their Gangbang Girl series also seem to have included this
highly unromantic preoral agreement. And speaking of "Undirected
Swallowing" can anyone recommend any good scenes of this nature? Off the
top of my head:
Vanessa Del Rio's 9-man gangbang scene in "The Devil in Mrs. Jones part 3."
Several of Vanessa Chase's scenes in "A Cum Sucking Whore Named Vanessa."
Francesca Le in "The Gangbang Girl #13."
Anna Malle in "The Gangbang Girl #14."
Just about any Debi Diamond video.
JD44560 <jd4...@aol.com> wrote in message news:rame.982059616p18412@bash...
Frank Simmons
>Sure Spike is a vampire. Sure he's
>evil! But can't Buffy give him ONE CHANCE? (Can you tell I just finished
>watching "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"? :) )
Totally off topic, but I can't resist.
At least she wouldn't have to worry about that whole soul-losing thing. :-)
Frank
** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Nikki, Kristara, Ali; Those Were The
Days **
Vegas Vic
>Based on recent threads, seems people want one or the other.
I prefer the visual impact of the facial.
Vegas Vic
Las Vegas, NV
"Rarely is the question asked, 'Is our children learning?'" - George W. Bush
Frank Simmons
however, is actually On Topic (sort of.) The other day a friend of mine who is
really into Buffy held "Slayerfest", and we basically watched the entire
"Mayor" saga, ending with Graduation night. I don't have cable, so I don't get
to follow Buffy - so most of this was new to me. My question is, is it just
me, or does the guy who played the mayor look and sound exactly like Eric
Edwards circa 1983 or so?
Learned Hand
The only thing I like about facials is that they are
better than any other external place for the guy to
come. However, I want to see the same thing I want to
experience. I like cumming inside a woman, whether it
is in the pussy or mouth. If I cum inside her mouth,
I would like her to swallow.
I like swallowing because it signals acceptance. This
is also why I like to see kissing, and for that
matter, smiling.
I don't find facials or swallowing humiliating without
other elements to add that twist in the scene.
Tim, I feel sorry for you. I can't imagine porn where
all the cum ended on the floor. Just as swallowing is
acceptance, that is the ultimate rejection. As much
as I like porn, I don't think I could bring myself to
be interested in watching porn when I knew ever scene
would end in rejection. Ugh.
Learned Hand
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Tim Evanson
> [...]
> I like swallowing because it signals acceptance. This
> is also why I like to see kissing, and for that
> matter, smiling.
To my mind, a facial is just as "accepting." After all, the social taboo
is AGAINST the facial. Social norms generally condemn facials as
"humiliating" (largely because it is a sign of acceptance or reveling in
sex?). To take cum on one's face is "accepting" of the sex act of
orgasm. Indeed, in my experience (and it's just my experience; I'm sure
others have had different ones), the people who have the most problems
handling sex often will accept cum in the mouth before they accept cum on
the face. Cum in the mouth is considered, somehow, "natural." (I
suppose that, if they "have to have it happen," then cum should be
ejaculated in the mouth where it is "natural" for it to go during oral
sex. They don't want cum anywhere but on the floor or in a tissue, but
if they have to, well, then...) But cum on the face is reveling in sex,
it is paying such close attention to the sex act that the orgasm is
anticipated and the cock pulled from the mouth in time for the cum to
spray onto the face. That's "un-natural," that is not "normal" --
somehow.
To my mind, what is un-natural is forcing the man to spew onto the
floor. Talk about rejection!
> I don't find facials or swallowing humiliating without
> other elements to add that twist in the scene.
I know that a lot of folks think that the amount of cum is one of those
elements.
Having never seen a bukkake film, I'm going out on a limb here. BUT: I
have often thought that a video in which a person takes 20, 30, 60
orgasms on the face would be HOT! :) (I've often had that dream, to be
honest.) I wouldn't see that as humiliating. After all, it is simply an
incremental extension of the gang-bang. The difference between a
four-way -- where a man takes on three others and gets cum in the mouth
or on the face three times -- is only incrementally different from a
five-way....or a six-way....or a seven-way....or a..... Wait. Now we're
into gang-bang territory, aren't we? I'll admit that this observation is
sensitive to the unit of measurement (i.e., while adding one more man to
the mix may be acceptable and incremental, if we measure things in "three
men added" then an increase of even one unit -- one group of three men --
may be too much and not incremental at all). But all the same, there's
some truth in that reasoning.
Part of the truth in it is backed up by my own personal experience. And
that is, in my own experience, it doesn't matter if it's two men or
twenty. The dividing line is between one and more than one. :)
So to my mind, "amount" isn't a sign of humiliation. The only thing
that's going to add that element of humiliation is the attitude of the
people involved.
And that is, I believe, where acting comes in. A performer who acts the
part of the humiliated victim of a facial (or oral cumshot) isn't really
doing anything wrong. It's acting -- in the same way that when an actor
murders a woman on tonight's "Inspector Morse" mystery show, he's not
really committing murder or doing anything wrong. (And no, I'm not going
to get into the "television violence causes real-life violence" debate.
That's for later. :) )
> Tim, I feel sorry for you. I can't imagine porn where
> all the cum ended on the floor. Just as swallowing is
> acceptance, that is the ultimate rejection. As much
> as I like porn, I don't think I could bring myself to
> be interested in watching porn when I knew ever scene
> would end in rejection. Ugh.
It wouldn't be so bad if there was some variety, some suspense, some
anticipation concerning the cumshot. After all, whenever I've jacked off
a guy, I've brought him exquisite pleasure. (Strippers have told me I
have "good hands.") In some ways, a good hand-job can be just as
stimulating to a man as sucking him as he cums. (I suppose we're back in
that realm of control again. When he isn't jacking himself off, I have
control, or a degree of control, over his orgasm -- the timing, the
speed, the intensity, the length. I've met many men who've just about
screamed in lust when I've jacked them off intensely as they cum. They
grab my wrists, try to push me away, beg me to stop -- all because I
won't let them come down off the high, keep stimulating them to the point
of painful over-stimulation, etc. I've also been with men who I've
gently, barely, feather-like jacked off. And these men have moaned,
screamed, begged me to stop -- because the tenderness of the touch drives
them wild. Control. It's all about control.)
So if there were some VARIETY in gay porn -- some anticipation over how
the orgasm is going to end -- then it wouldn't be so bad to see a man's
liquid snow wasted on the ground. Will he be sucked off? Will he jack
himself off onto the other person's face? Or will he be jacked off, not
in control of his own orgasm, another's fingers and hand working magic on
his cock? (Will it be a "rough" JO, a "tender" JO? Once again, I'm
confronted with the anticipation of something unpredictable! :) Yes,
people do deliver downright god-awful handjobs! So we're somewhat
dependent on skill. But then, they also can turn their faces during
facials, and give downright god-awful blowjobs, too.)
But what do we get? The same old boring crap. And often very badly
performed.
Tim #1
- - - - - - -
Penis size isn't everything, but it's a lot when you don't have much
choice.
Frank Simmons
>Having never seen a bukkake film, I'm going out on a limb here. BUT: I
>have often thought that a video in which a person takes 20, 30, 60
>orgasms on the face would be HOT! :) (I've often had that dream, to be
>honest.)
< snip >
>So to my mind, "amount" isn't a sign of humiliation. The only thing
>that's going to add that element of humiliation is the attitude of the
>people involved.
That's just it, Tim. While I haven't seen a bukkake film, I have seen some
trailers for actual Japanese bukkake flicks, complete with pixilation (as
opposed to American Bukkake) and the attitude being presented was one of pure
humiliation. The girl was tied down, wearing those damn bunny ears, never
smiled, and looked at the whole thing in disgust. The guys, meanwhile, mostly
looked bored at best. I don't know if what I saw was typical, or
representative of the American version, but it wasn't the least bit erotic to
me, nor did it appear to be anything other than an attempt to humiliate the
female.
Frank
** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Nikki, Kristara, Ali; Those Were The Days **
FlowerFan
>
> That's just it, Tim. While I haven't seen a bukkake film, I have seen some
> trailers for actual Japanese bukkake flicks, complete with pixilation (as
> opposed to American Bukkake) and the attitude being presented was one of
pure
> humiliation. The girl was tied down, wearing those damn bunny ears, never
> smiled, and looked at the whole thing in disgust. The guys, meanwhile,
mostly
> looked bored at best. I don't know if what I saw was typical, or
> representative of the American version, but it wasn't the least bit
erotic to
> me, nor did it appear to be anything other than an attempt to humiliate the
> female.
>
> Frank
>
> ** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Nikki, Kristara, Ali; Those Were The
Days **
I have seen a few Japanese bukkake films, some that were definitely
focused on humiliation of the girl, but some that were more, well,
"surreal" for lack of a better word. Nobody's enjoying it, the girl is
fully clothed, there's no "sexiness" the way we westerners understand
it. The action proceeds as formally as Kabuki theater.
I'd really like to hear what a Japanese native thinks of this genre. It
seems to me that there's more of a cultural mystique around it that
doesn't translate well in American-style bukkake.
liveslow
news:rame.982395604p6128@bash...
> >From: Tim Evanson teva...@erols.com
> >
> That's just it, Tim. While I haven't seen a bukkake film, I have seen
some
> trailers for actual Japanese bukkake flicks, complete with pixilation (as
> opposed to American Bukkake) and the attitude being presented was one of
pure
> humiliation. The girl was tied down, wearing those damn bunny ears, never
> smiled, and looked at the whole thing in disgust. The guys, meanwhile,
mostly
> looked bored at best. I don't know if what I saw was typical, or
> representative of the American version, but it wasn't the least bit erotic
to
> me, nor did it appear to be anything other than an attempt to humiliate
the
> female.
>
> Frank
Well, I too have yet to see a Japanese Bukkake, but the depiction you
(Frank) gave doesn't surprise me in the least. The Japanese have a sort of
graphic novel form of book, called "manga", which often depict little,
nubile school girls being bound, gagged, brutalized, and sometimes raped as
part of the action. The visual content of these "books" wouldn't pass
muster in most American book retail locations, but they can be found
virtually everywhere in Tokyo (and, I'll assume the rest of Japan). I see
the Bukkake as little more than an extension of the domineering masculine
culture of Japan being expressed in the humiliation of the subservient or
captive female. Whereas the "gangbang" seems to be centered around the idea
of "the insatiable woman who needs many men to satisfy her", the Bukkake
appears to be the converse: The pleasure of the woman is unnecessary and her
DISPLEASURE is sexually gratifying to the male participants. (Anyone else
see just a little of this in Rocco and Max's movies ??)
live slow
"Sail fast, live slow."
Speelie
>have a RAME vote? I find facials a total bore, but can't get enough of
>swallow
>vids.
I like to watch the occasional facial, especially if the girl is ready for
it, but then is surprised by the power and volume of the cumshot. But
overall,
I like watching swallowing better. It requires some effort from the girl, she
has to get her mouth in the right position, often she collects the extra cum
with her tongue and fingers, and then she displays the cum before swallowing.
Facials are mostly passive. I like to see the woman display the cum, then
swallow it, then give a satisfied grin. It makes it seem like fun was had by
all.
Tommy1871
>seems to me that there's more of a cultural mystique around it that
>doesn't translate well in American-style bukkake.
Bataan
Death March, or seeing "Bridge Over the River Kwai"
TD
TD
Clark Kent
make it understandable.
Personally I enjoy facials both in film and real life. But only those
where the woman is 'wanting' and not the Japanese Bukkake films where
she seems disgusted. A lady partner asking to be squirted on is one
representation, at least to me, of her being incredibly turned on. And
us guys all know THAT is the ULTIMATE turn on - to have a woman tangled
up with you who is as hot and bothered as yourself. Animal sex.
IMHO all forms of sexual play can degenerate into humilition. It's
simply a matter of attitude by the participants.
Clark
In article <rame.982459205p14458@bash>, live...@netdot.com wrote:
>
> Well, I too have yet to see a Japanese Bukkake, but the depiction
> you
> (Frank) gave doesn't surprise me in the least. The Japanese have a sort
> of
> graphic novel form of book, called "manga", which often depict little,
> nubile school girls being bound, gagged, brutalized, and sometimes raped
> as
> part of the action. The visual content of these "books" wouldn't pass
> muster in most American book retail locations, but they can be found
> virtually everywhere in Tokyo (and, I'll assume the rest of Japan). I
> see
> the Bukkake as little more than an extension of the domineering masculine
> culture of Japan being expressed in the humiliation of the subservient or
> captive female. Whereas the "gangbang" seems to be centered around the
> idea
> of "the insatiable woman who needs many men to satisfy her", the Bukkake
> appears to be the converse: The pleasure of the woman is unnecessary and
> her
> DISPLEASURE is sexually gratifying to the male participants. (Anyone
> else
> see just a little of this in Rocco and Max's movies ??)
--
Work like you don't need money, Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching.