Porn has become a disgusting horror show
Ridley99
when i began to watch porn it was a harmless excursion into jerk off
land. Ron Jeremy or Peter North would boff some pretty girl, once in a while
the cum shot would be too the face, sometimes it would be on the stomach or the
back. the scene would end nice nioce and ron would go off to consume the local
Pazza hut.
things began to change with John T Bone, Gangbangs came into vogue, things
began to get nastier. facial cumshots became more frequent. more asnd more you
began yto see women in what i call " situations " they began to sweat for thier
pay, thier faces contorted into painful expressions. TT-Boy was T-Bones living
instument of agression.
about 1993 things really began to change, Anabolic, and people like Rob
Black became more dominant in the bizness, we began to see more Anal, more DPs.
more nastiness, Jim Powers arrived a couple of years later, we began to be
treatred to unheard of sights like girls eating cum out of thier own assholes,
a pervert like Mila became a star of freaked out excess.
as the decade of indulgence continued it seemed that every vid had an anal
in it, more and more directors went gonzo. the sperm began to fly like never
before, pretty soon it reached its apotheosis in the Bukkake series.
and i rooted it along, things were fine and exciting, but in the last 2
years porn has gone from interesting to downright sickening. everything has
been takin to an extreme level, resembling downright female abuse. Men are
literrally using porn to further thier perverted ambitious of hurting women, or
making them scream , cause them pain or at the very leasy humiliate them.
now we are where we are, in a state opf pure anarchy. the girls in porn most
of them in the 18 to 22 range . an age i have stated is to young for a girl to
make such decisions about thier lives, and they are literrally marched though
the seven fings of hell before the industry spits them out.
remember the days when we made a big deal about the rough sex movies,
fuck..there are so many movies similar to rough sex or worse that its
impossible to list them all.
Alrex Hiddel chokes women with his massive dick, gagging them till they
vomit, almost busting thier jaws as he uses thier heads like a nut cracker.
women are analed as roughly as humanly possible in Armegedon videos, this is
not sex, this is not erotica this is criminal, this is video tailored to would
be rapists. and as many teenagers are watching it, sneaking it into vcrs late
at night or when thier parents aren't home, i am afraid we are breeding a
generation that think that this is how women should be treated.
they should be fucked , or analed or DP'ed till thier faces contort into
masks of agony, and when you are ready to cum you should pull out and grab the
back of thier heads and cum all over thier faces.
porn has sunk into a smelly vile abyss run by people with cruel thoughts,
the kind of people who as children enjoyed pulling the wings off butterflys now
they beat the shit out of women.
it is a wierd thing to see the transformation of porn in your lifetime from
harmless roll in the bed bumpity bump...to viscious hate filled savage rape
like Clock work Orange like horror shows.
porn is one tradgedy away from being literrally disbanded. one girl dying on
a porn shoot, a group of boys gang raping a girl because they are mimicing A
PORN VIDEO.
its amazing it hasn't happened yet, girls are thrown around like rag dolls on
porn sets, how long before they hit thier heads on a piece of furniture, or
maybe have thier intestine punctured by some madman or be choked to death by
TT-Boy. Its going to happen. Its amazing it hasn't happened yet.
we know John Ashcroft has his hands busy right now, but when he gets though
giving mr Bin Laden a B-52 enema he will have plenty of time to straighten out
the porn business and he will have plenty of nice new laws to help him.
the people doing porn have been lucky beyond the imagination, luck like
everything else in this world runs out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
** rec.arts.movies.erotica FAQ at http://www.rame.net/faq **
** internet adult film database at http://www.iafd.com **
BigDawg
of rather important points.
You seem to miss a very important factor here, that porn is a business. It
is not some sexual hobby that allows guys that should be in prison to have
sex with young girls. It is a business plain and simple. Have you watched
regular TV lately? Gone are the days of " The Waltons "...We see partial
nudity on network TV, we hear profanity. We see game shows based on women
being willing to seel themselves to " Marry a Millionaire or Be a Princess
"...We see game shows where contestants are made to eat Bull testicles, Live
worms, and other such items just to get a chance at some cash.
The porn business is just a mirror of society. Andrew Blake tried to take
porn to a higher level and other than a small group of fan's, his films were
roundly ridiculed as being soft focus garbage. The only reason people like
Hidell,Black,Hardcore and the rest are succesful is because they produce a
product that people want. They might not admit they want it, but someone is
buying this stuff. As with any business, If " Girls who suck cock like the
stinky,cum guzzling whore that they are! part 1 " sold 3 copies, you would
not see part 2 getting produced. It's Very simple. It's all dollars. I
remember during the 70's it was all blow jobs...Then it went to interracial,
then anal, then dp's, then lord knows....Its a natural progression. People
get tired of seeing Ron Jeremy or Peter North simply having sex with some
young little squab. They want something new...and whether you like it or
not, as long as it continues to sell...You will continue to see it.
One last point. As long as there is a flood of pretty young women who are
willing to do just about anything to get in front of a camera, you will
certainly continue to see them.
BD
Parodox321
years ago so I am not as experianced as most people on RAME. But, I will say
that threw out the last few years things have been going way out of extreme and
into insanity.
You were talking about girls being 18 to 22 in the indusrty and how they
should not be aloud. Some people would say that if they are old enough to
vote they are old enough to do porn. Well I would have to disagree with that.
I am only 21 years old and I know from experiance that kids in the U.S. dont
have a clue on politics, or just about anything else. Most of them are not
smart enough yet to think for themselfs and make good disicions. For anyone
thats young signing up for porn is like signing up for jail. Once your in, you
cant get out and live a good life. You will always have a bad name and rep.
As for all of the new and sick shit that is comming out on the market, it
has got to stop. I started watching porn because it would always put me in a
good mood. You dont see people getting blown, shot, stabed, or slaughtered up.
Now, I rent a regular porn movie and the first thing I see is some person
taking a piss or shit up close. Yea, that is what I want to see, that is what
gets Mr. Happy right up!!!!! NOT!! They should stop all the feaky shit, and
work on having sex again, it seems like they forgot how to do that. What they
are trying to do is upgrade the indusrty,the new era of porn. But what is
happening to the porn indusrty is just like MTV. It was all great music back
then, But now 85% of it is shit made for the 30% of the consumers.
lakeqi
but so what, let us have our fun.Is it SO inconceivable to you that
the women who are in these movies might actually enjoy being abused
sexually?That they might enjoy drinking lots of cum?Maybe they are
into sexual experimentation. you keep saynig over and over and over
again how the guys who make and presumably enjoy these movies should
have the same things done to them- well just tell me where to sign up,
if there WERE women who enjoyed doing these things to men then guys
like me could suffer the revenge youre always ranting about- women
have lots of money, they can produce vids where men are being abused.
I love to see women stretched to the limits and beyond - and yet one
of the best movies i saw this year was return of the boss bitches
where guys got abused- wake up dude its called human sexuality.
Phil
about abuse and how far you can push someone.
I pretty much keep to the movies that still like fucking.
ridl...@aol.com (Ridley99) wrote in message
news:<rame.1001433784p8385@hypervillage>...
but in the last 2
> years porn has gone from interesting to downright sickening. everything has
> been takin to an extreme level, resembling downright female abuse. Men are
> literrally using porn to further thier perverted ambitious of hurting women, or
> making them scream , cause them pain or at the very leasy humiliate them.
> now we are where we are, in a state opf pure anarchy. the girls in porn most
> of them in the 18 to 22 range . an age i have stated is to young for a girl to
> make such decisions about thier lives, and they are literrally marched though
> the seven fings of hell before the industry spits them out.
> remember the days when we made a big deal about the rough sex movies,
> fuck..there are so many movies similar to rough sex or worse that its
> impossible to list them all.
> Alrex Hiddel chokes women with his massive dick, gagging them till they
> vomit, almost busting thier jaws as he uses thier heads like a nut cracker.
> women are analed as roughly as humanly possible in Armegedon videos, this is
> not sex, this is not erotica this is criminal, this is video tailored to would
> be rapists. and as many teenagers are watching it, sneaking it into vcrs late
> at night or when thier parents aren't home, i am afraid we are breeding a
> generation that think that this is how women should be treated.
> they should be fucked , or analed or DP'ed till thier faces contort into
> masks of agony, and when you are ready to cum you should pull out and grab the
> back of thier heads and cum all over thier faces.
> porn has sunk into a smelly vile abyss run by people with cruel thoughts,
> the kind of people who as children enjoyed pulling the wings off butterflys now
> they beat the shit out of women...
Mongo@Bay
wrote:
>Mr.Ridley, you make several good points but you also seem to miss a couple
>of rather important points.
>You seem to miss a very important factor here, that porn is a business. It
>is not some sexual hobby that allows guys that should be in prison to have
>sex with young girls. It is a business plain and simple.
Not so plain and simple. Porn producers and directors have always been
people with minimal talent, willing to do porn because they can't get
straight work or because porn caters to their own perverse view of
sexuality. They're willing to accept the social stigma of porn because
it gives them the opportunity to work out their little fetishes for
pissing or shoes or choking or whatever. Do you think Hustler, for
example, ever did focus groups or any other form of consumer research
to determine if people liked the pissing in the Barely Legal series,
the way a legitimate business would do? I doubt it. They lucked into a
successful pimp who was able to cajole some really beautiful,
relatively unknown porno starlets to do the nasty in front of a
camera, and they found they had a successful series. Did they then try
to preserve the quality of their releases so as to maximize their
profits? No, they took a quick buck approach and rushed out a huge
number of releases with plain looking skanks instead of teen dreams,
trying to exploit the cache of the "Barely Legal" name before it
vanished. A smart business wouldn't do that.
If the people who produced this stuff ever tried to determine what
most people like and don't like, they'd sell a lot more of it, and
porn consumers would be a happier group.
> Have you watched
>regular TV lately? Gone are the days of " The Waltons "...We see partial
>nudity on network TV, we hear profanity. We see game shows based on women
>being willing to seel themselves to " Marry a Millionaire or Be a Princess
>"...We see game shows where contestants are made to eat Bull testicles, Live
>worms, and other such items just to get a chance at some cash.
There's little doubt that sensationalistic entertainment has to keep
topping itself, leading to more and more extreme ideas aimed at
capturing the attention of an increasingly jaded audience. Porn is
certainly subject to the same forces. Just because it's true, however,
doesn't make it a good thing.
>The porn business is just a mirror of society. Andrew Blake tried to take
>porn to a higher level and other than a small group of fan's, his films were
>roundly ridiculed as being soft focus garbage.
While I agree that Andrew Blake's approach emphasizes visual style
over sexual heat, to the detriment of his films, I would still bet
that any one of his films sells a lot more units than any of these
"Slap Happy" or "Gag Factor" films do. To me, Andrew Blake is a
hopeful sign for porn, in that someone who probably does have the
talent to make it directing rock videos or whatever, chooses to do
hardcore porn. Most people in porn today have less talent and less
ambition than their predecessors.
> The only reason people like
>Hidell,Black,Hardcore and the rest are succesful is because they produce a
>product that people want. They might not admit they want it, but someone is
>buying this stuff. As with any business, If " Girls who suck cock like the
>stinky,cum guzzling whore that they are! part 1 " sold 3 copies, you would
>not see part 2 getting produced. It's Very simple. It's all dollars. I
>remember during the 70's it was all blow jobs... Then it went to interracial,
>then anal, then dp's, then lord knows....Its a natural progression.
70's porn was all blowjobs? Your porno time-line makes no sense to
me.
> People
>get tired of seeing Ron Jeremy or Peter North simply having sex with some
>young little squab. They want something new...and whether you like it or
>not, as long as it continues to sell...You will continue to see it.
>
>One last point. As long as there is a flood of pretty young women who are
>willing to do just about anything to get in front of a camera, you will
>certainly continue to see them.
Too true. I think you have to say stupid, gullible, pretty young
women, though. Porn has become talentless auteurs filming whores
having mechanical sex. Porn used to be a lot more interesting than
that.
BARD
Mary Letterer
ridl...@aol.com (Ridley99) wrote in message
news:<rame.1001433784p8385@hypervillage>...
Roderick Burgess
consumer have the choice in terms of supporting these "disgusting"
individuals you speak of. If you don't like it, don't buy it. No
problem. If people get off on this stuff (as I do), they have the
right to watch it.
On a related note, porn will only get more extreme in the next decade
or so. Gone are the days when one had to go to a theater with a
raincoat on to check out the latest porn flick. I'm 21 now, and I
grew up with porn everywhere, especially on the internet. Internet
porn will breed the craziest porn producers/actors ever. Think of all
the extreme crap guys will see before they even hit the legal age.
Wait another handful of years when my generation starts taking over
some of the porn production places, and then you'll see the results.
If your post is any indication, you're not gonna like it one bit.
noones...@headcase.novia.net
instant I read the following
we know John Ashcroft has his hands busy right now, but when he gets
thoughgiving mr Bin Laden a B-52 enema he will have plenty of time to
straighten out the porn business and he will have plenty of nice new
laws to help him.
thats right Rid make a law....stand em all up against a wall and shoot
em.......typical .....legislate for US what YOU think is bad. Never
mind the fact that the REAL % of exrteme films is tiny..a handful of
Bukkake's (which isnt really extreme anyway...just repetitious) a
handful of Slap Happy's and handful of Max Hardcore
films...etc..compared to thousands of mainstream porn flicks put out
every year. As long as you are not proposing to legislate what adult
people can voluntarily buy, perform in, and watch..then by all means
express your disgust(wait..if yer disgusted doesnt that mean YOU watch
em?) but what laws there are are sufficient without your kind of
extremist witch-hunt mentality.
Patrick Riley
>On Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:47:06 EDT, "BigDawg" <big...@nethere.com>
>wrote:
> It
>>is not some sexual hobby that allows guys that should be in prison to have
>>sex with young girls. It is a business plain and simple.
>Not so plain and simple. Porn producers and directors have always been
>people with minimal talent, willing to do porn because they can't get
>straight work or because porn caters to their own perverse view of
>sexuality. They're willing to accept the social stigma of porn because
>it gives them the opportunity to work out their little fetishes for
>pissing or shoes or choking or whatever. Do you think Hustler, for
>example, ever did focus groups or any other form of consumer research
>to determine if people liked the pissing in the Barely Legal series,
>the way a legitimate business would do? I doubt it.
I'm not so sure a legitimate business would do that. Post-its, for
example, were originally intended for the relatively small marketplace
of the bookmark. Even if 3M had taken a survey, I doubt they would
have discovered the much more widespread use. Another example is
Sony's production of the Walkman. No market reseach; the founder of
Sony is on record saying that he didn't think it was worthwhile. And
from the opposite direction, look at Classic Coke. Great marketing
research and a screwed up result.
> They lucked into a
>successful pimp who was able to cajole some really beautiful,
>relatively unknown porno starlets to do the nasty in front of a
>camera, and they found they had a successful series. Did they then try
>to preserve the quality of their releases so as to maximize their
>profits? No, they took a quick buck approach and rushed out a huge
>number of releases with plain looking skanks instead of teen dreams,
>trying to exploit the cache of the "Barely Legal" name before it
>vanished. A smart business wouldn't do that.
Again I beg to differ. The porn industry suffers from the commons
problem. If Hustler had waited and only put out "teen dreams" they
would have quickly found a dozen imitators profiting from their
ground-breaking concept (well, it wasn't really ground-breaking but
we'll give them the benefit of the doubt) and their slower but better
releases would have been just another movie in the sub-group.
Look at what happened to the all-BJ movie. Elegant Angel came out with
Doctor Fellatio and, when the rest of this industry noted the profits,
everyone jumped on the bandwagon. Doctor Fellatio is now just one of
many.
The problem is the ease of entry into the business. Any fool with a
video camera (and some other easy-to-obtain equipment and contacts)
can start making porn today and siphon off some of the business from
the established makers thus forcing them, even if they wanted to do
better porn, to churn out movies for the lowest denominator.
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
Ridley99
>consumer have the choice in terms of supporting these "disgusting"
>individuals you speak of. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
i don't think its that simple. all this bullshit about if you don't like it
don't buy it doesn't cut it when people are being abused.
too many people have looked the other way for far too long.
as a young snot you have no idea of the way porn use to be. when i began
watching it the shit was so innocent it wouldn't even classify as porn today.
as someone who has consumed porn for the last 15 years i can speak of the
change from light hearted fun and games to downright savagery.
even the Europeans who gave us Rocco and fist fucking, piss videos and shit
videos don't have anywhere the cruel streak we see in Americas porn. women are
fisted sure, but there is no cruelty involved and in most cases its a women
doing it to another women, and thier seems to be pleasuring involved.
my question is this...just exactly when did the sadists take over the
bizness.
there are many men in this world who hate women, for a myriad of
pyschological reasons and so can be classified as emotionally and mentally
unbalanced.
some of these people become serial killers and stab women with knives rather
then dicks.
Black, Hiddel, Max have the same exact grudge against women, in reading about
Serial Killers we learn that many were abused as children, many are Junkies or
alcoholics. Many use a " Mask of Sanity " to get about in the world.
the blatent disregard for the health of the actresses in thier videos marks
these men as dangerous and just down right cruel.
lets face it these sick bastards just like to see women humiliated. its not
even so much a matter of sex.
i have watched Armegeddon Gangbangs where Women are literrally treated less
then human.
I also note that people like Mickey Gillis and Mr Marcus delight in
appearing in these vids and take particular relish in dishing out the
humilation. I must also note ( and this may be controversial ) but Mr Marcus
only abuses white women.
Brandy Alexandre make a good point that many in this newsgroup would love to
see Robert Black or Hiddell get thier hands on her and teach her a lesson for
having the nerve to talk back.
Miss Alexandre has shown herself to be extremely intelligent, which
seperates her from burnt out Junkie like Black who has yet to post on this
newgroup to defend his actions.
my question now is what is next, where do we go from here, while we wait for
the ineventible fatality that will close down the industry forever.
Pissing, Fisting, Animal, Vomiting, Torture and finally SNUFF.
hey i like porn as much as the next mother fucker, but no matter what you
tell me ...when women are being abused...you can count me the fuck out.
peter ramezap
you make some good points about some sick shit taking place in some films, I
don't like to see girls vomit, cry, or bleed either, but I do like seeing a
young fresh face girl, 18+, getting fucked hard up the ass by multiple guys,
eating their cum and get pissed on as well, yeah it's a bit extreme compared
to the days of Ron Jeremy sticking his cock in a 30 something year old woman
in missionary position then cumming on her belly as the climax. Just like
everything else porn has progressed, in multiple directions. There is
something for any taste now, not everyone has to like everything about porn,
never was that way, never will be.
peter
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
a-...@newyork.com
<bra...@kamikaze.org> wrote:
[snip]
>Porn is no longer the dipiction of intimacy, but
>freak shows that caterr to the lowest common denominator. I agree that
>if you like what the industry is putting out today, you hate women.
>There is no other explanation. When people say that I should get back
>into the business so I will "get what I deserve," and knowing what my
>opinated nature has brought me as a reputation, then it is clear that
>people view porn as a place to enact revenge upon women for imagined
>slights or feelings of inferiorty they produce.
[snip]
Is today's porn, like rape and domestic violence, a backlash against
feminism and resulting successful and unsuccessful encroachments upon
male dominance?
(Caveat: I haven't seen a huge amount of recent porn such that I could
make the kinds of comparisons others are making.)
MM
a horror show". It is certainly true that there are some series in
porn that are extreme, but I personally do not believe that it has
become the norm. It certainly is true though that these series get
the most publicity and attention.
>After serious umbilicus contemplation, lakeqi wrote in
>news:rame.1001457028p26183@hypervillage:
>> ridley, do you ever shut up? sure we are marching towards
>> armagedon, but so what, let us have our fun.Is it SO inconceivable
>> to you that the women who are in these movies might actually enjoy
>> being abused sexually?That they might enjoy drinking lots of
>> cum?Maybe they are into sexual experimentation. you keep saynig
>> over and over and over again how the guys who make and presumably
>> enjoy these movies should have the same things done to them- well
>> just tell me where to sign up, if there WERE women who enjoyed
>> doing these things to men then guys like me could suffer the
>> revenge youre always ranting about- women have lots of money, they
>> can produce vids where men are being abused. I love to see women
>> stretched to the limits and beyond - and yet one of the best movies
>> i saw this year was return of the boss bitches where guys got
>> abused- wake up dude its called human sexuality.
>
>and I agree with him. Porn is no longer the dipiction of intimacy, but
>if you like what the industry is putting out today, you hate women.
>There is no other explanation. When people say that I should get back
>into the business so I will "get what I deserve," and knowing what my
>opinated nature has brought me as a reputation, then it is clear that
>people view porn as a place to enact revenge upon women for imagined
>slights or feelings of inferiorty they produce.
>
>human sexuality, then you are a victim of just what Ridley predicted.
>
>
>
> --
>Brandy Alexandre
>http://kamikaze.org (Adults Only)
>
>Click the flag for my comments on 9/11!
steve
is necessarily a bad thing. currently, hate groups can spread their
hate messages and equally, those against hate groups can spread their
anti-hate messages.
those on neither side have the right to choose to listen to either one
or both or ignore both and spend their time creating their own
thoughts rather than listening to the thoughts of others.
this is the only fair way for things to be done. everyone must be
given an equal voice to speak their opinion. no one must be given the
ability to alter another's freedom of speech.
as opposed to hating and becoming angry about the movies you don't
like , would it not make more sense to simply write in support of
those companies/movies/directors who produce the movies you enjoy ?
rather than posting a message of what a terrible thing the porn you
watch has become, why not post another positive note about a movie you
really enjoyed. most importantly, if the movies bother you so much or
don't entertain you, why not stop watching them ?
finally, you can continue to complain about the movies you don't like
and campaign for government regulation of movies. but remember... your
argument is the same argument used by anti-porn groups. they say the
entire adult film world is filthy and should be abolished. i'm betting
you wouldn't like it if they were successful in abolishing porn
altogether. those of us who like and are entertained by the certain
movies you condemned are given that same feeling by your wanting to
censor our entertainment.
mj
Plug in any non comp film of the era and you get one of three things:
Bad cinema and sex (I love bad cinema!), very good cinema and sex, or
weak cinema and sex. Of course, the sex can be weak in all three.
Still, you stand a great chance at real entertainment.
I don't begrudge today's product or people who enjoy it. However, it
saddens me that there is little chance that plugging in a 90's and
later tape will reflect any cinema whatsoever.
roderick...@hotmail.com (Roderick Burgess) wrote in message news:<rame.1001458850p27625@hypervillage>...
dirty-dan
original post as in alot of ways is going to open the same
debates... i still think you are projecting a little into the
topic, but overall agree with you alot more then before,
though i do not agree with you about 21 over 18 (and
is infact 16 if you were in 90% of Europe, Russia, or
Japan.. about anywhere but the U.S. and Germany.
What i do agree with you about it this, have no interest in
watching Max Hardcore treat a model with what would
coin as abusive sex or any of the other mainstream stuff
all to common, this is my preference.
But Xiola posted you an answer that she was happy in
the industry, she just by the way turned 20 and is growing
closer to your 21 mark to get back to you. She has been
here over a year now.
This aside... (you can say she has an okay employer maybe
as we are not Max Hardcore - if she is still happy in a year)
Let me tell you a Xiola story:
She knows i am not into BDSM or SM... none the less she
asked me to go with her awhile back to a meeting in of
all places Greenville S.C. for a BDSM group that had
rented out a hotel. Was frankly scared shitless as i was
expecting some total freaks... Xi has a few friends in the
group and wanted a girlfriend of hers to give me a
whip message, and swore i would enjoy it. Again total
panic, though i love and trust her totally else would not
have even remotely considred going to anything like this.
Is not my bag!
The expereince is worth telling you... while the majority
of the group were married couples 30-50, were alot of
singles 20 to 30 in the midst, and about 10 single poly
women who choose to be with couples and ENJOY
ruff sex as a lifestyle. (No i do not get it, but i thought
you needed to know sometimes is done by CHOICE)
Saw one girl 21 who said left a man as he was unwilling
to fully cater to her ruff sexual desires to fill her needs
(and was stunned that she appeared normal and sane,
and was son to be a Vet)
Why would anyone wish to be spanked, ordered
around, skull fucked... put in a cage, or any of this
crapola... (or even watch it might add)
Well with commercial porn, maybe for the pay they
do it - maybe a few are freaks into the lifestyle.. and
maybe the producers are freaks as you suggest
acting out their own dark natures... and obvious
someone buys it... so you have a circle.
But in a BDSM relationship is no pay, is a lifestyle
choice.. some are into role playing.. some light bondage
and discpline, but quite a few there were into out right
being shoved around and told to take it up the ass and
swallow it slaves willing having giving themselves
to their masters. (though not all, nor even most are
this extreme) was more slaves looking for masters
than oddly enough masters wanting slaves there.
I sat and listened to a well educated man and women
discuss the lifestyle.. in somewhat shock as they were
as normal as any couple you meet on the street... and
they had with the now the above mentioned a 21 year
old slave girl who totally adored them. Oddly enough
i recognized her as an ALS model and was shocked.
Frankly had a total sense of none reality. I talked
to her about it and she was not a weak person or some
misfit.. she said she choose to give herself to them as
it was a relief from her normal role where she was in
charge of a large office and only did some porn for kicks
and in general was never recognized.. and doing this
with them gave her relaxation and a mental rest... she
spent 3 nights a week with them as a slave and planned
to spend the remainder of her life with them. She had
found them when they ran an ad 2 years ago and was
totally happy.
End of the night my erotic whipping massage came...
i said NO PAIN, I GIVE NONE, I TAKE NONE.. and
the friend of Xi's used a leather whip and was able
to pop it so the force was away from my skin... was
9 tails.. and frankly it felt stimulating.. was never
painful.. and she was able to massage my back and
was the oddest expereince... was absolutely erotic,
she was indeed an expert with it (would be scared
shitless if she was using it to inflict pain)
Xiola explained that sometimes when she is feeling
depressed that role playing that emulates violence
and inflicts controled pain removes her stress and
leaves her feeling like she has had thearpy.
No i do not get it... i don't want to get it, nor do
i wish to be part of this element of her life... but
i can indeed tell you that there are some out there
whom choose such lifestyles as a matter of choice
and you are not factoring this possibility into your
thinking and that things are far more "controlled"
than appear on the screen.
I do not think this explains all we see, nor does
it make it good.. and the people who do this
in role playing trust each other, have codes to
know when to stop.. and maybe unlike the
casual porn viewer can seperate role play and
reality and know when and what is acceptable.
I just felt Mr.Ridley you needed a drop of
360 degree thinking here.. though as a
whole i agree with you about content of alot
and that the majority of current porn is far too
violent for my own tastes.
*************************************************************************
HornyRob See our Webpage at: http://www.hornyrob.com
215-293-3138 - Products, Uncensored Usenet, Adult Webmaster Support
Exclusive Owner of all 4 Anna films in NTSC Format ~On Site~
Trademark and Copyright Infringement Rewards: www.hornyrob.com/copyright
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lenscap1
are the selling points...like that Royalle woman did....
Brandy Alexandre <bra...@kamikaze.org > wrote in message
news:rame.1001466008p2352@hypervillage...
> SNIP
> If that's what you want to believe, go right ahead. Ridley is right
> and I agree with him. Porn is no longer the dipiction of intimacy, but
> freak shows that caterr to the lowest common denominator. I agree that
> if you like what the industry is putting out today, you hate women.
> There is no other explanation. When people say that I should get back
> into the business so I will "get what I deserve," and knowing what my
> opinated nature has brought me as a reputation, then it is clear that
> people view porn as a place to enact revenge upon women for imagined
> slights or feelings of inferiorty they produce.
>
> This isn't human sexuality, it's sexual abuse. If you think it is
> human sexuality, then you are a victim of just what Ridley predicted.
>
>
>
> --
> Brandy Alexandre
> http://kamikaze.org (Adults Only)
>
> Click the flag for my comments on 9/11!
Nedephraim
objections are based more upon aesthetic issues, and questions of
simple erotic entertainment value, rather than any real-world moral
implications of the roughness and vile physical excess in contemporary
porn.
Previous posters have focused on the negative moral implications of a
Rough Sex or Slap Happy, for both viewers and participants. But does
even the most deranged among us takes his or her cues on male-female
relations from porn films? Any significant moral deterioration in the
porn audience is more likely to stem from a larger deterioration in
mainstream society, in which we all participate, rather than from
those content changes which might occur in our marginalized and
proprietary world of porn viewership. And regarding the actresses -- I
don't know that a "rough" or cum-soaked porn shoot experience would be
any more traumatic for a naive young starlet than acting in
conventional porn. (In other words, I would guess that any trauma
suffered from the filming of a particular scene pales before the
greater trauma of simply entering and inhabiting the overall porn
world.)
Most importantly, though, it's very dangerous to draw lines in the
sand as to what might be morally acceptable in a porn film. We all
have our different thresholds but I guarantee that they far exceed
those of Ashcroft and his ilk and we must not validate any forthcoming
moves toward censorship on moral grounds by advocating such ourselves.
Instead, the primary problem for me is that most porn producers have
lost touch with the basic elements that make a scene erotic, sexy, and
arousing. The trend toward plopping women down on the floor,drenching
them with varying bodily fluids, stuffing appendages and objects in
their every available orifice, and occasionally beating or choking
them -- while they sit there with a repulsed, or even worse, blank
look on their faces -- is indicative in my view of a greater problem;
most pornographers don't possess the slightest clue of how to create
actual sexual tension. For example, one rarely senses any genuine
connection between the men and women performing. We've all grown
accustomed in recent years to seeing most of the women look they would
rather be somewhere else. But now even the guys do. They all look and
act like they're masturbating, not having sex.
Many pornographers, lacking any creativity or knowledge of how to
create genuine sexual tension, compensate by waving the banner of
"extremity". These movies turn me off not for what they depict, but
for what they lack. And I get especially saddened when I read
something like this:
Internet
> porn will breed the craziest porn producers/actors ever. Think of all
> the extreme crap guys will see before they even hit the legal age.
> Wait another handful of years when my generation starts taking over
> some of the porn production places, and then you'll see the results.
> If your post is any indication, you're not gonna like it one bit.
I may be alone in my definition of what makes a porn film compelling.
But, being only in my 20s myself, I worry that more pornographers will
choose to fall back on the easy option of being disgusting or
physically brutal in order to titillate the audience. I'm also
alarmed, incidentally, to see a boring hack like Andrew Blake
mentioned as though he were the natural alternative to Rough Sex or
Slap Happy. His movies occupy the opposite end of the spectrum but
suffer from the exact same problem: the women are still stripped of
their human qualities and made into objects (in his case for empty
glorification, rather than degradation). What happened to good, nasty
porn, with real engagement and interaction between the players? I'm
not talking romance here; I acknowledge that degradation of women is a
cornerstone of pornography, and I dig a good, rough or even
non-consensual scene as much as the next raincoater.
Personally, I avoid the overtly oafish and insipid roughies cited by
Ridley, as well as all the idiotic Zupko-type shock pieces and the
cum-drenched but boring prostitute-conducting-a-transaction
documentaries put out by Anabolic. Instead I seek out films in the
vein of the insidious old Jamie Gillis and Serena movies from the 70s
or early 80s; those wonderfully trashy mid/late-80s flicks with the
likes of Tasha Voux, Barbie Dahl, Patti Petite, and Rachel Ryan; or
even Max Hardcore from the early 90s, before he lost his will to put
the effort into creating sexy scenarios and instead decided he could
satisfy us by smacking the women and stuffing them with speculums in
lieu of genuine sexual tension. (So as not to sound completely
anachronistic, I will confess to deriving enjoyment from many entries
in the Extreme Teen series; most of Rocco's work; and many Rodney
Moore movies, precisely for the utilization of scenarios -- not to be
confused with "plotted porn" -- that up the sexual tension and set the
tone for the sex to come.)
Nedephraim
John Harkness
wrote:
>"Mongo@Bay" <mitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:47:06 EDT, "BigDawg" <big...@nethere.com>
>>Not so plain and simple. Porn producers and directors have always been
>>people with minimal talent, willing to do porn because they can't get
>>straight work or because porn caters to their own perverse view of
>>sexuality. They're willing to accept the social stigma of porn because
>>it gives them the opportunity to work out their little fetishes for
>>pissing or shoes or choking or whatever. Do you think Hustler, for
>>example, ever did focus groups or any other form of consumer research
>>to determine if people liked the pissing in the Barely Legal series,
>>the way a legitimate business would do? I doubt it.
>
>I'm not so sure a legitimate business would do that. Post-its, for
>example, were originally intended for the relatively small marketplace
>of the bookmark. Even if 3M had taken a survey, I doubt they would
>have discovered the much more widespread use. Another example is
>Sony's production of the Walkman. No market reseach; the founder of
>Sony is on record saying that he didn't think it was worthwhile. And
>from the opposite direction, look at Classic Coke. Great marketing
>research and a screwed up result.
>
At least one of these is incorrect -- According to an article in the
New York Times Sunday Magazine a few years ago, the founder/president
of Sony, the late Akio Morita, wanted the Walkman developed so he
could listen to music while he played tennis.
John Harkness
Frank Simmons
>
>70's porn was all blowjobs? Your porno time-line makes no sense to
>me.
Perhaps he meant "Gerard Damiano was all blow-jobs." That would be reasonably
accurate, at least from the Damiano stuff that I've seen.
Frank
** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Angel, Angel W., Candy; Those Were The Days
**
Dangler
<bra...@kamikaze.org> writes
>After serious umbilicus contemplation, lakeqi wrote in
>news:rame.1001457028p26183@hypervillage:
>
>> ridley, do you ever shut up? sure we are marching towards
>> armagedon, but so what, let us have our fun.Is it SO inconceivable
>> to you that the women who are in these movies might actually enjoy
>> being abused sexually?That they might enjoy drinking lots of
>> cum?Maybe they are into sexual experimentation. you keep saynig
>> over and over and over again how the guys who make and presumably
>> enjoy these movies should have the same things done to them- well
>> just tell me where to sign up, if there WERE women who enjoyed
>> doing these things to men then guys like me could suffer the
>> revenge youre always ranting about- women have lots of money, they
>> can produce vids where men are being abused. I love to see women
>> stretched to the limits and beyond - and yet one of the best movies
>> i saw this year was return of the boss bitches where guys got
>> abused- wake up dude its called human sexuality.
>
>and I agree with him. Porn is no longer the dipiction of intimacy, but
>freak shows that caterr to the lowest common denominator. I agree that
>if you like what the industry is putting out today, you hate women.
>There is no other explanation. When people say that I should get back
>into the business so I will "get what I deserve," and knowing what my
>opinated nature has brought me as a reputation, then it is clear that
>people view porn as a place to enact revenge upon women for imagined
>slights or feelings of inferiorty they produce.
>
>This isn't human sexuality, it's sexual abuse. If you think it is
>human sexuality, then you are a victim of just what Ridley predicted.
>
acceptable are relative, however I feel that we have moved away from a
'greater kicks' genre to a misogynist genre in many cases. I accept
however that many will not see that for the reasons which Brandy has
amplified.
--
Dangler
Dangler
<bra...@kamikaze.org> writes
>After serious umbilicus contemplation, Roderick Burgess wrote in
>news:rame.1001458850p27625@hypervillage:
>> On a related note, porn will only get more extreme in the next
>> decade or so. Gone are the days when one had to go to a theater
>> with a raincoat on to check out the latest porn flick. I'm 21 now,
>> and I grew up with porn everywhere, especially on the internet.
>> Think of all the extreme crap guys will see before they even hit
>> the legal age. Wait another handful of years when my generation
>> starts taking over some of the porn production places, and then
>> you'll see the results. If your post is any indication, you're not
>> gonna like it one bit.
>>
>
>off. We understand that. But when these extremes are all that get you
>off, what does that mean for decent women who get involved with you?
>
> --
>Brandy Alexandre
Or even indecent ones. They too are human being rather than bits of
meat.
--
Dangler
lakeqi
Think of all
> the extreme crap guys will see before they even hit the legal age.
> Wait another handful of years when my generation starts taking over
> some of the porn production places, and then you'll see the results.
> If your post is any indication, you're not gonna like it one bit.
great point, like i said, we're on the road to hell, but you might as
well lay back and enjoy the ride! and if you think the arabs are a
problem,like you said, wait until the next few generations of middle
class white americans grow up, its gonna be anachry all over again,
but thats all right.better nihilism than the boring, trite, oprah
winfrey influenced hysterics of people like riddlrey and brandy
alexander. With all due respect the new generation rejects sexual
boredom, you try to stop us and we'll declare a jihad.
lakeqi
> I also note that people like Mickey Gillis and Mr Marcus delight in
> appearing in these vids and take particular relish in dishing out the
> humilation. I must also note ( and this may be controversial ) but Mr Marcus
> only abuses white women.
>
totally stupid. What the hell does the fact that he abuses white women
have to do with anything, what does race have to do with it? You
writing this merely points out the fact that youre living in the
fuckin past and the past was a bucket of shit.we're moving forward, a
nice recession will open up sex all over again thank Goddess.
Prostitution will see a revival on our streets,women will be lined up
around the block to take the type of abuse marcus offers, and
moreover, ive seen this in the new genertaion, the next generation of
women coming up are totally agressive, there WILL be a golden age of
femdom in videos and in society, ive seen it, i guarantee it. its no
more than ten years off.its gonna be fuckin great!
Ridley99
>nice recession will open up sex all over again thank Goddess.
>Prostitution will see a revival on our streets,women will be lined up
>around the block to take the type of abuse marcus offers, and
>moreover,
i hardly think a recession in America is going to create the kind of moral
vacum we see in the former soviet republics in which women sell thier children
into prostituition to pay for the next meal, in fact the opposite will probably
be true with the country turning much more religious and moral.
everything behaves in a cycle, right now porn has reached the very limits
of depravity it is only logical to think that the cycle will now turn towards
the opposite direction and govermental cleansing of the whole industry will
soon begin, brought about by public opinion.
it wasn't so long ago that shows like the Waltons and Little house on the
Prairie were big hits where we now have titillating garbage like Love Cruise or
Big Brother, everything returns to the center sooner or later.
sorry to dissapoint you.
Patrick Riley
>On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:25:45 EDT, Patrick Riley <p_r...@pipeline.com>
>wrote:
>>I'm not so sure a legitimate business would do that. Post-its, for
>>example, were originally intended for the relatively small marketplace
>>of the bookmark. Even if 3M had taken a survey, I doubt they would
>>have discovered the much more widespread use. Another example is
>>Sony's production of the Walkman. No market reseach; the founder of
>>Sony is on record saying that he didn't think it was worthwhile. And
>>from the opposite direction, look at Classic Coke. Great marketing
>>research and a screwed up result.
>At least one of these is incorrect -- According to an article in the
>New York Times Sunday Magazine a few years ago, the founder/president
>of Sony, the late Akio Morita, wanted the Walkman developed so he
>could listen to music while he played tennis.
Perhaps, but I fail to see how that makes my statement incorrect.
Either way he didn't do any research for an extremely successful
product.
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
Sagittaria
news:rame.1001451608p20346@hypervillage:
> I have to agree fully with you. I have just started watching porn
> about 6 years ago so I am not as experianced as most people on
> RAME. But, I will say that threw out the last few years things
> have been going way out of extreme and into insanity.
Has anyone ordered from http://www.millerswork.com ? The prices are
high, but the content sounds interesting. If anyone has tried them,
let us know how they are.
--
---->Sagittaria<----
Thank God I'm an atheist....
Mongo@Bay
<snip>
>Precisely the reason I concentrate on porn from the 70's and 80's.
>Plug in any non comp film of the era and you get one of three things:
>Bad cinema and sex (I love bad cinema!), very good cinema and sex, or
>weak cinema and sex. Of course, the sex can be weak in all three.
>Still, you stand a great chance at real entertainment.
I'm curious, which films would you regard as very good cinema, and
what distinction are you making between bad and weak?
Mongo@Bay
>> a
>>nice recession will open up sex all over again thank Goddess.
>>Prostitution will see a revival on our streets,women will be lined up
>>around the block to take the type of abuse marcus offers, and
>>moreover,
>
> i hardly think a recession in America is going to create the kind of moral
>vacum we see in the former soviet republics in which women sell thier children
>into prostituition to pay for the next meal, in fact the opposite will probably
>be true with the country turning much more religious and moral.
> everything behaves in a cycle, right now porn has reached the very limits
>of depravity it is only logical to think that the cycle will now turn towards
>the opposite direction and govermental cleansing of the whole industry will
>soon begin, brought about by public opinion.
> it wasn't so long ago that shows like the Waltons and Little house on the
>Prairie were big hits where we now have titillating garbage like Love Cruise or
>Big Brother, everything returns to the center sooner or later.
> sorry to dissapoint you.
I hate to disagree, but a recession IS likely to increase
prostitution. Economic hard times always does. As far as a right wing
backlash against porn, while I'm sure they'd love to launch one, porn
is a very different business than it was back in Ed Meese's day. The
government may be reluctant to mess with a multi-billion dollar growth
industry during economic hard times.
Mongo@Bay
wrote:
>"Mongo@Bay" <mitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Not so plain and simple. Porn producers and directors have always been
>>people with minimal talent, willing to do porn because they can't get
>>straight work or because porn caters to their own perverse view of
>>sexuality. They're willing to accept the social stigma of porn because
>>it gives them the opportunity to work out their little fetishes for
>>pissing or shoes or choking or whatever. Do you think Hustler, for
>>example, ever did focus groups or any other form of consumer research
>>to determine if people liked the pissing in the Barely Legal series,
>>the way a legitimate business would do? I doubt it.
>
>I'm not so sure a legitimate business would do that. Post-its, for
>example, were originally intended for the relatively small marketplace
>of the bookmark. Even if 3M had taken a survey, I doubt they would
>have discovered the much more widespread use. Another example is
>Sony's production of the Walkman. No market reseach; the founder of
>Sony is on record saying that he didn't think it was worthwhile. And
>from the opposite direction, look at Classic Coke. Great marketing
>research and a screwed up result.
In the corporate world, the name of the game is market share.
Corporations do many things to increase market share and profits,
including advertising, market research, and certainly trying to figure
out new ways that consumers can use their products. Look at the
tobacco industry. They were conducting research to make their product
more addictive. While I certainly think this type of behavior sucks,
it is how most multi-billion dollar industries are run. Porn is an
exception in almost every way. Their advertising opportunities are
limited, their market research non-existant and the social realities
of porn make recruiting talent a problem.
>> They lucked into a
>>successful pimp who was able to cajole some really beautiful,
>>relatively unknown porno starlets to do the nasty in front of a
>>camera, and they found they had a successful series. Did they then try
>>to preserve the quality of their releases so as to maximize their
>>profits? No, they took a quick buck approach and rushed out a huge
>>number of releases with plain looking skanks instead of teen dreams,
>>trying to exploit the cache of the "Barely Legal" name before it
>>vanished. A smart business wouldn't do that.
>
>Again I beg to differ. The porn industry suffers from the commons
>problem. If Hustler had waited and only put out "teen dreams" they
>would have quickly found a dozen imitators profiting from their
>ground-breaking concept (well, it wasn't really ground-breaking but
>we'll give them the benefit of the doubt) and their slower but better
>releases would have been just another movie in the sub-group.
The cover of Barely Legal 3 is what caused me to buy it. Every girl on
that tape was phenomenal. It was something few porn tapes are, a good
value. Instead of one or two worthwhile scenes, it had five. All of
volumes 1-4 and On Vacation had similar quality. After that, though,
it was caveat emptor. Sure there's other teen themed flicks out there,
but your best bet of competing with them is still maintaining a high
level of quality. Box covers can only lie so much. I can't believe
that as a result of their drop in quality, Hustler didn't sell less
copies of the later Barely Legals. Again, the quick buck rather than
the long haul, the mark of a poorly run business. The phrase "Often
imitated, but never duplicated" springs to mind. Quality control is
unfortunately an unknown concept in the porn world.
>Look at what happened to the all-BJ movie. Elegant Angel came out with
>Doctor Fellatio and, when the rest of this industry noted the profits,
>everyone jumped on the bandwagon. Doctor Fellatio is now just one of
>many.
>
>The problem is the ease of entry into the business. Any fool with a
>video camera (and some other easy-to-obtain equipment and contacts)
>can start making porn today and siphon off some of the business from
>the established makers thus forcing them, even if they wanted to do
>better porn, to churn out movies for the lowest denominator.
Too true. Until something comes along that differentiates itself from
the pack in terms of profitability. It may come from a completely
different direction, though. Just as a foreign film, "I Am Curious,
Yellow," started this whole phenomenon, Europe is once again leading
the way by mixing mainstream filmmaking and hardcore sex scenes. A
quality sex film that is even a modest world-wide hit could cause a
huge change.
Mongo@Bay
that these extreme films are likely to make the case against
censorship harder to defend. Censorship aside, though, I think this ng
is as good a forum as any to express the concerns Ridley has posted
here. Speaking for myself, I can't find many recent releases to "get
happy" about.
Kevin B. O'Reilly
news:rame.1001518239p1324@hypervillage...
> And
> from the opposite direction, look at Classic Coke. Great marketing
> research and a screwed up result.
I think you're thinking of New Coke. Classic Coke is what they had
originally and what is sold today.
Mongo@Bay
more European filmmakers blur the distinction between mainstream
cinema and porn, it may be that well acted, scripted, filmed and
edited porn will become a reality.
On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:40:46 EDT, nedep...@yahoo.com (Nedephraim)
wrote:
Hand
>After serious umbilicus contemplation, lakeqi wrote in
>news:rame.1001457028p26183@hypervillage:
>
>> ridley, do you ever shut up? sure we are marching towards
>> armagedon, but so what, let us have our fun.Is it SO inconceivable
>> to you that the women who are in these movies might actually enjoy
>> being abused sexually?That they might enjoy drinking lots of
>> cum?Maybe they are into sexual experimentation. you keep saynig
>> over and over and over again how the guys who make and presumably
>> enjoy these movies should have the same things done to them- well
>> just tell me where to sign up, if there WERE women who enjoyed
>> doing these things to men then guys like me could suffer the
>> revenge youre always ranting about- women have lots of money, they
>> can produce vids where men are being abused. I love to see women
>> stretched to the limits and beyond - and yet one of the best movies
>> i saw this year was return of the boss bitches where guys got
>> abused- wake up dude its called human sexuality.
>
>If that's what you want to believe, go right ahead. Ridley is right
>and I agree with him. Porn is no longer the dipiction of intimacy, but
>freak shows that caterr to the lowest common denominator. I agree that
>if you like what the industry is putting out today, you hate women.
>There is no other explanation.
Wouldn't it be great - and I guess it is NEVER going to happen - if people
in the industry would try to influence legislation that would make the
women-hating garbage illegal/risky to make. It's the only solution,
otherwise I suspect it will come to the "hate group" labelling that Brandy
noted; in fact, it is by far the most likely scenario (if we have to have
Ashcroft and Co, can't they at least be good at what they are supposed to be
good at, making pornographers behave themselves?) I'm amazed at the people
who post here who say that abuse of women is OK because it is what people
want to see. And this crap mentality feeds on itself - the more
women-hating and women-fearing, the more women are going to respond in kind.
There is almost nothing in society as gender divisive now the porn issue,
I've been asked by women I know who have their heads up and who have an
interest in how men regard women, and I can't explain away this stuff. It is
women-hating, pure and simple. Why? What have they done?
Mongo@Bay
it's in its infancy. I hope that in the future it follows the model of
other forms of entertainment, like mainstream film or sports. In
those industries the balance of power has shifted from the studios and
team owners to the talent, the actors and players.
One problem I see is that is there has to be smarter, less gullible
women in porn to achieve this power shift and the trend has been the
opposite. Chloe seems to be an exception and I'm sure there're others,
but stars of the magnitude of Bette Davis, Katherine Hepburn, Bogart,
etc., demanding their independence is what helped bring down the
studio system, and there don't seem to be stars in porn the way there
used to be.
Beyond the economics, though, there has to be genuine concern for
the welfare of women exposed to this increasingly misogynistic system.
I guess unionization would be just about impossible, but something
like it would be good idea.
On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 03:22:28 EDT, "Brandy Alexandre "
<bra...@kamikaze.org > wrote:
>A friend of mine has been making me nuts with questions wanting to get
>into the industry as marketing. He has worked in "mainstream"
>marketing for a number of years and truly believes he can help the
>lucky company that hires make it all the way to the top and everyone
>will be wealthy. I have tried to explain to him that the porn industry
>doesn't work the same way a real business does. They won't pay someone
>a lot of money to promote movies that historically sell the same
>numbers no matter what you do. They get whatever amount they can and
>they don't want to split it with one more person.
>
>He's positive I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
Lenscap1
'glass ceiling' in the porn business, or are you detered by the criminal
prosecution witch hunt that may happen...?
Brandy Alexandre <bra...@kamikaze.org > wrote in message
news:rame.1001552463p26644@hypervillage...
> After serious umbilicus contemplation, Lenscap1 wrote in
> news:rame.1001503811p23938@hypervillage:
>
> > So, come back as a "producer" and produce flicks where intimacy and
> > erotica are the selling points...like that Royalle woman did....
> >
>
> No, not "like" Rayale did. That crap is boring. ;) I did my stint as
> a producer and had every single door possible slammed in my face
> because of it. Girls are not supposed to produce something people will
> actually buy. It skews the numbers for the "real" pornographers--the
> Boys Club.
>
> Just you wait, someone, somewhere, is going to find a way to label porn
> and its producers as a hate group subjecting them to rules and laws
> like no other has before.
>
> --
> Brandy Alexandre
> http://kamikaze.org (Adults Only)
>
> I'm retired, but work part-time as a pain in the butt.
Patrick Riley
> Although porn has been around for millennia, as a modern business
>it's in its infancy. I hope that in the future it follows the model of
>other forms of entertainment, like mainstream film or sports. In
>those industries the balance of power has shifted from the studios and
>team owners to the talent, the actors and players.
> One problem I see is that is there has to be smarter, less gullible
>women in porn to achieve this power shift and the trend has been the
>opposite. Chloe seems to be an exception and I'm sure there're others,
>but stars of the magnitude of Bette Davis, Katherine Hepburn, Bogart,
>etc., demanding their independence is what helped bring down the
>studio system, and there don't seem to be stars in porn the way there
>used to be.
I'm no expert on the subject but I have the impression that there were
lots of factors other than the power of Bette Davis etc. that resulted
in the collapse of the studio system. In particular the anti-trust
case which forced the studios to divest themselves of their cinema
holdings opened up the market to competition and allowed non-studio
films to be released.
Even if mainstream was influenced by the power of well-known actors
and actresses it's not going to happen that way in porn because of the
"welcome" factor. (I see that mainstream has identified this function
in "Someone Like You" as the "new cow" factor.) While people like
Bette Davis can continue working for many years in non-sex roles, porn
females have to be new and attractive and even then they'll lose their
newness after a small number of movies. IOW by the time they have any
following their porn life will be over. There are of course exceptions
like Jenna Jameson but even there I can't see her being able to
attract the same following at (say) 35 and certainly not at age 40.
SFB's might be well in evidence on rame but in the general viewing
public "newness" is essential.
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
mj
news:<rame.1001568624p6478@hypervillage>...
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:06:27 EDT, manj...@mailcity.com (mj) wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >Precisely the reason I concentrate on porn from the 70's and 80's.
> >Plug in any non comp film of the era and you get one of three things:
> >Bad cinema and sex (I love bad cinema!), very good cinema and sex, or
> >weak cinema and sex. Of course, the sex can be weak in all three.
> >Still, you stand a great chance at real entertainment.
>
> I'm curious, which films would you regard as very good cinema, and
> what distinction are you making between bad and weak?
Very good porn cinema for me is an entertaining, imaginative and
creative film along with sex. Some of my favorite examples are:
Barbara Broadcast
American Pie
Anyone But My Husband
Liberation of Honeydoll Jones
Grafenberg Spot
Taxi Girls
800 Fantasy Lane
Punishment of Anne
Films being so "bad" they are "good" would be examples like "Love
Mexican Style" which features Jamie Gillis with a fake mustache and a
horrible Mexican accent and his band of Mexican banditos....one of
which is blonde and sports a ten cent halloween eye patch and doesn't
even bother to attempt a Mexican accent....hilarious! Or "Le Bete"
(The Beast) where a guy in a costume which is kind of a cross between
the Wolfman and Gentle Ben chases women through the French Countryside
having sex with this goofy looking upside sort of dick with fake cum
flying all over the place.
Weak films would be the boring ones....FF to the sex and blow it off.
Tom Collins
>lots of factors other than the power of Bette Davis etc. that resulted
>in the collapse of the studio system. In particular the anti-trust
>case which forced the studios to divest themselves of their cinema
>holdings opened up the market to competition and allowed non-studio
>films to be released.
I seem to recall that some actor sued his studio to get out of his
contract, and this basically freed all the other actors to be free
agents.
David Austin
"Brandy Alexandre " <bra...@kamikaze.org> wrote:
> Just you wait, someone, somewhere, is going to find a way to label porn
> and its producers as a hate group subjecting them to rules and laws
> like no other has before.
I believe this was done by 1983. See
http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/other/ordinance/newday/TOC.htm
or, more briefly:
http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/OrdinanceBriefDescription.html
http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/OrdinanceModelExcerpt.html
http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/OrdinanceMassComplete.html
as well as
American Booksellers Ass'n v. Hudnut, 771 F.2d 323, 325
(7th Cir.), aff'd 475 U.S. 1001 (1986)
at, e.g.,
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/comm/free_speech/hudnut.html
Also pertinent:
http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/WomensStudies/ReferenceRoom/Publica
tions/pornography-conference-tapes.html
David.
---
David F. Austin
david_...@ncsu.edu
Mongo@Bay
wrote:
>"Mongo@Bay" <mitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>but stars of the magnitude of Bette Davis, Katherine Hepburn, Bogart,
>>etc., demanding their independence is what helped bring down the
>>studio system, and there don't seem to be stars in porn the way there
>>used to be.
>
>I'm no expert on the subject but I have the impression that there were
>lots of factors other than the power of Bette Davis etc. that resulted
>in the collapse of the studio system. In particular the anti-trust
>case which forced the studios to divest themselves of their cinema
>holdings opened up the market to competition and allowed non-studio
>films to be released.
As I said, it helped, but it certainly wasn't the only factor. The
analogy between mainstream and porn film history is flawed in several
respects. I don't think a similar shift of power will happen in porn,
I'd just like to see it happen. It's odd. Golden age porn used to
utilize men and women equally, as actors in a bad films. Then there
was late eighties-early nineties porn where the women were emphasized
and the men were nothing but stunt cocks. Now in far too many cases
it's the men who are the focus (Max, Rocco, Jake Steed, Ed Powers,
etc. etc.) and that's just creepy.
>Even if mainstream was influenced by the power of well-known actors
>and actresses it's not going to happen that way in porn because of the
>"welcome" factor. (I see that mainstream has identified this function
>in "Someone Like You" as the "new cow" factor.) While people like
>Bette Davis can continue working for many years in non-sex roles, porn
>females have to be new and attractive and even then they'll lose their
>newness after a small number of movies. IOW by the time they have any
>following their porn life will be over. There are of course exceptions
>like Jenna Jameson but even there I can't see her being able to
>attract the same following at (say) 35 and certainly not at age 40.
>SFB's might be well in evidence on rame but in the general viewing
>public "newness" is essential.
Although this is of course true, it used to be less true. The average
length of a porn career (for women) has taken a nose dive over the
last decade. You're not going to see porn actresses maintain their
careers into their 50s, 60s etc., but there's no reason that they
can't have a career into their 40s like Seka or Kay Parker, as long as
they keep their looks. In that sense it's more like a sports star or a
Hollywood starlet, as opposed to an actress. How long a career will
Shannon Elizabeth have if all she can play are sex kitten roles?
There are many factors involved in the shortening of porn careers,
lack of promotion, overexposure and overuse (i.e. participation in
gangbang films). Porn ignores the most fundamental of show-biz career
maxims, "Make sure they remember your name, and leave em wanting
more". The worst factor though, is the sameness of current porn. If
you could see your favorite in a wide variety of erotic scenarios,
then you'd be more inclined to keep buying their stuff and support
them in a longer career. After all, how many times do you want to see
Gauge turn a trick?
lakeqi
> sorry to dissapoint you.
Second of all we havent come even remotely close to the limits of
depravity. The kids today are 100 time more depraved than anything we
could ever dream about and 1000 times more aatheistic.third of all bad
econmic times ALWAYS leads to more prostitution.hell, maybe you'll
even be out there selling ass.Maybe i'll be out there sellin ass, hte
fact is, ass WILL be for sale.Its gonna be GREAT!
a-...@newyork.com
MrH...@notmail.com wrote:
>Wouldn't it be great - and I guess it is NEVER going to happen - if people
>in the industry would try to influence legislation that would make the
>women-hating garbage illegal/risky to make.
[snip]
Slippery-slope alert! "Hate speech" is _legal_ - let me repeat:
_LEGAL_ - and _protected_ under the U.S. Constitution! This is covered
under the First Amendment. The best way to fight misogynistic porn is
to boycott it. Just don't buy it!
noones...@headcase.novia.net
assumes everything you see on the screen is real? You also probably
think professional wrestling is real too...you refer to Mr Black as
Junkie-like?....what does the word junkie have to do with anyhting yer
talking about?....So max and marcus and company are all abused
children grown up to be serial killers?
Man there is something seriously wrong with you...I mean it...your
posts are just like rambling hate-spew..incoherent and poisonous.
On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 04:14:53 EDT, ridl...@aol.com (Ridley99) wrote:
>> and you as the
>>consumer have the choice in terms of supporting these "disgusting"
>>individuals you speak of. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
>
> i don't think its that simple. all this bullshit about if you don't like it
>don't buy it doesn't cut it when people are being abused.
> too many people have looked the other way for far too long.
> as a young snot you have no idea of the way porn use to be. when i began
>watching it the shit was so innocent it wouldn't even classify as porn today.
> as someone who has consumed porn for the last 15 years i can speak of the
>change from light hearted fun and games to downright savagery.
> even the Europeans who gave us Rocco and fist fucking, piss videos and shit
>videos don't have anywhere the cruel streak we see in Americas porn. women are
>fisted sure, but there is no cruelty involved and in most cases its a women
>doing it to another women, and thier seems to be pleasuring involved.
> my question is this...just exactly when did the sadists take over the
>bizness.
> there are many men in this world who hate women, for a myriad of
>pyschological reasons and so can be classified as emotionally and mentally
>unbalanced.
> some of these people become serial killers and stab women with knives rather
>then dicks.
> Black, Hiddel, Max have the same exact grudge against women, in reading about
>Serial Killers we learn that many were abused as children, many are Junkies or
>alcoholics. Many use a " Mask of Sanity " to get about in the world.
> the blatent disregard for the health of the actresses in thier videos marks
>these men as dangerous and just down right cruel.
> lets face it these sick bastards just like to see women humiliated. its not
>even so much a matter of sex.
> i have watched Armegeddon Gangbangs where Women are literrally treated less
>then human.
> I also note that people like Mickey Gillis and Mr Marcus delight in
>appearing in these vids and take particular relish in dishing out the
>humilation. I must also note ( and this may be controversial ) but Mr Marcus
>only abuses white women.
> Brandy Alexandre make a good point that many in this newsgroup would love to
>see Robert Black or Hiddell get thier hands on her and teach her a lesson for
>having the nerve to talk back.
> Miss Alexandre has shown herself to be extremely intelligent, which
>seperates her from burnt out Junkie like Black who has yet to post on this
>newgroup to defend his actions.
> my question now is what is next, where do we go from here, while we wait for
>the ineventible fatality that will close down the industry forever.
> Pissing, Fisting, Animal, Vomiting, Torture and finally SNUFF.
> hey i like porn as much as the next mother fucker, but no matter what you
>tell me ...when women are being abused...you can count me the fuck out.
a-...@newyork.com
wrote:
>After serious umbilicus contemplation, wrote in
>news:rame.1001664008p9381@hypervillage:
>
>>>Wouldn't it be great - and I guess it is NEVER going to happen - if
>>>people in the industry would try to influence legislation that
>>>would make the women-hating garbage illegal/risky to make.
>> [snip]
>>
>> Slippery-slope alert! "Hate speech" is _legal_ - let me repeat:
>> _LEGAL_ - and _protected_ under the U.S. Constitution! This is
>> covered under the First Amendment. The best way to fight
>> misogynistic porn is to boycott it. Just don't buy it!
>>
>
>Hate SPEECH, yes. But when they use real people to "speak" and it it
>clearly abuse, it stops being Hate speech and becomes hate crime.
I'm having trouble with this, Brandy. You are talking about a dramatic
form, and the actors are paid and voluntarily agree to be abused. A
hate crime would be to slap a woman around without getting her consent
and paying her.
I have no use for this kind of shit. I didn't have use for it when it
was Tom Byron slapping Flame's butt until it was red, and I don't have
use for the kinds of disgusting things people have been describing
here (women throwing up, etc.) All this stuff disgusts me and turns me
off big time; I find it repugnant. Perhaps if there is a way someone
can draw a clear line....But are any of you also suggesting outlawing
boxing (that wouldn't bother me)? How about football? Football players
also sign contracts and get paid to get hit, don't they?
Ridley99
>It's not both, so pick one and please start couching your arguments
>within those parameters
ask Brooke Ashley if it real
ask Chasey Lain
ask Aspen Brock....if you can find her
all i know is this....the women involved are very real.
No account
wrote:
> Although porn has been around for millennia, as a modern business
>it's in its infancy. I hope that in the future it follows the model of
>other forms of entertainment, like mainstream film or sports. In
>those industries the balance of power has shifted from the studios and
>team owners to the talent, the actors and players.
Sure, that's what the studios and team owners want you to think!
First of all, porn stars aren't generally comparable to "talent" in
film or sports. The reason a film or sports star makes gigabucks is
because there are literally only a few hundred or fewer people in the
entire world who can do what they can with similar expertise.
Millions of Americans play sports on the amateur level, thousands on
the semipro, but professional stars are good in a way that most of us
will never encounter in our lives.
Now it may be true that in terms of numbers there are rather few porn
stars, but in terms of talent, what they do is generally more like
what the fry machine operator at McDonald's does than like what Julia
Roberts or Barry Bonds does.
Second, I think your fundamental premise is mistaken. Most sports
players and most actors don't make squat, probably less than your
average porn star. (Sports != major leagues) Find a porn star who can
"fill the seats" on the strength of name recognition, and you'll find
someone who can make a lot of money. Sort of like Rocco, or Jewel, or
Peter North, or Juli Ashton.
> Beyond the economics, though, there has to be genuine concern for
>the welfare of women exposed to this increasingly misogynistic system.
>I guess unionization would be just about impossible, but something
>like it would be good idea.
I'm not sure if the "system" is increasingly misogynistic. Sure, the
acts that they portray on screen seem to be more violent and depraved,
but one could say that about film in general. On the other hand, the
actual treatment of the women based on their apparent health and
happiness seems to have improved. At least from what is visible
onscreen, it appears that the actors mostly enjoy their jobs and are
in good physical condition. And they seem to be leaving while they
are still young and not completely ruined. Compare that with some of
the old, drugged out, skeezy, scummy, toothy scags who inhabited late
70's porn. Yes, what they were doing might've looked more romantic,
but it also sometimes looked as though they required a hit of blow to
put them in the mood.
Somebody's likely to bring up implants into this discussion, so I'll
just say upfront that I'm not sure if they really have anything to do
with (video) pornography. Many or most of the girls seem to get
implants while they're still dancing or doing print layouts. And,
let's face it, breast implants are tremendously widespread even
outside of the adult industry -- even if there were a rule which said,
"You can't get implants after you've already been filmed without 'em,"
there'd still be no shortage of them -- women like Donita and Candy
Cotton were apparently born with huge airbags.
No account
wrote:
>from the opposite direction, look at Classic Coke. Great marketing
>research and a screwed up result.
New Coke, but otherwise, yeah.
>The problem is the ease of entry into the business. Any fool with a
>video camera (and some other easy-to-obtain equipment and contacts)
>can start making porn today and siphon off some of the business from
>the established makers thus forcing them, even if they wanted to do
>better porn, to churn out movies for the lowest denominator.
"Ease of entry" isn't the problem. Any fool with a video camera can
start filming documentaries and lo-budget comedies and dramas...The
Blair Witch Project and before that, credit card auteurs like Spike
Lee have shown this to be true. And sites like Shockwave/Atomfilms
show that there are plenty of low-cost films out there for the
viewing, if you want 'em.
The problem is that most people don't want low quality mainstream
films, at any price. The differential between an amateur film and an
expertly directed/acted one is so great that most people won't sit
still for a non-studio film for free, must less pay for one. (Myself
excluded -- I would love to see a Shock/Atom channel on my huge but
mostly boring cable lineup.) Heck, most people wouldn't pay for
network television, which is occasionally very good. As a result, the
major studios have to pay a lot to hold onto the real talent, and even
so, they seem to teeter on the edge of bankruptcy every few years.
But porn isn't easy to separate to tiers of talent. Patrick, you
probably realize that more keenly than most -- porn videos seem to be
popular mostly in inverse proportion to your judgment of them.
--
No account luser (small/shade/ya/hoo/com)
a-...@newyork.com
>news:rame.1001790010p27797@hypervillage:
>> After serious umbilicus contemplation, wrote in
>> Was there consent? That's what they would have to find out.
>> Consent to be in the movie, perhaps, consent to do anal, perhaps,
>> consent to slapped, perhaps. But to what degree? Did the producer
>> say, "Anal, and with a really big dick and very, very hard, without
>> any lube or reasonable time to work up to accommodating it."
>> There's consent and then there's informed consent.
>>
>I also meant to add making sure the women are informed to the fact they
>can get up and leave at any time if the circumstances are not what was
>agreed to or unreasonable. Some stay because they think they don't
>have a choice.
If the women are staying because they have reason to believe they are
coerced to stay, that is an assault. I guess one question I'd pose is
whether the actresses would be entitled to get paid under their
contracts if they got up and left. I'm guessing not, but they
certainly should retain the right to give up their pay and get the
fuck out of there. Women who accept pay in order to get assaulted have
to be really fucked up if it's voluntary; if it's not voluntary, a
felony has been committed, and those responsible should cool their
heels in one of our finest penitentiaries for a few years. That might
teach them what it's like to get assaulted - without pay.
Perhaps some detectives should watch some extreme porn and interview
the actresses to find out whether the scenes were really voluntary.
Nick Adams
@hypervillage:
> Now it may be true that in terms of numbers there are rather few porn
> stars, but in terms of talent, what they do is generally more like
> what the fry machine operator at McDonald's does than like what Julia
> Roberts or Barry Bonds does.
Actually, that's not quite true. Try getting wood on command in front of a
crew with a girl you you just met, keeping it and then coming within 20
seconds of your cue sometimes. It's not as easy as most guys think. That's
one of the reasons every 18-year-old male in American isn't doing porn.
While females can fake orgasms more easily, there are still skills involved
that the majority of non-porn females don't have. For example, I've yet to
meet a female performer who had trouble deepthroating me. I've met one non-
performer who could. I'm relatively certain the problem isn't my massive
seven-inch penis. Deepthroating is a skill most women don't have.
I see performing in porn as more akin to writing than anything else. Almost
everybody can write and thinks they're pretty good at it. Damn few of us
manage to earn a living at it. That takes a different skill level (and a
whole set of skills amateurs don't even realize exist).
Take care,
Nick
-----------------------------------------------------
What appears to be coming at you, is coming from you.
=====================================================
http://www.jordanlee.com/ ICQ: 26038313
Mongo@Bay
wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 05:14:47 EDT, "Mongo@Bay" <mitc...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Although porn has been around for millennia, as a modern business
>>it's in its infancy. I hope that in the future it follows the model of
>>other forms of entertainment, like mainstream film or sports. In
>>those industries the balance of power has shifted from the studios and
>>team owners to the talent, the actors and players.
>
>
>Sure, that's what the studios and team owners want you to think!
>First of all, porn stars aren't generally comparable to "talent" in
>film or sports. The reason a film or sports star makes gigabucks is
>because there are literally only a few hundred or fewer people in the
>entire world who can do what they can with similar expertise.
>Millions of Americans play sports on the amateur level, thousands on
>the semipro, but professional stars are good in a way that most of us
>will never encounter in our lives.
>
>Now it may be true that in terms of numbers there are rather few porn
>stars, but in terms of talent, what they do is generally more like
>what the fry machine operator at McDonald's does than like what Julia
>Roberts or Barry Bonds does.
Analogies are always flawed, and I would liken a pornstar more to
Pamela Anderson than Julia Roberts, but my comment was merely what I
would like to see happen, economically. I go to a ballpark to see the
players, not the owners, and to a movie to see the actor's and
director's efforts, not some studio exec's. I think the talent
deserves the reward. Nowhere is this more true than in porn. I'm only
interested in women. I don't give a damn about the male porn actor,
the talentless directors and producers and I sure as hell don't care
about scum-of-the-earth auteurs like Max Hardcore. If women in porn
were treated better, they'd stick around longer and I'd have more
opportunities to enjoy their charms.
When I mentioned that porn, as a modern business, is in its infancy,
the same thing could be said of porn as professionally filmed
entertainment. Prior to late sixties porn films were stags, without
budget (kind of like what we have today, actually). If you've ever
checked out the earliest theatrical mainstream films, they consisted
of weird travelogues showing trains pulling into stations and other
mundane subjects. People were just amazed to see moving images.
Movies, as we now know them, took a long time to develop. Porn is more
fringe, economically and socially, and will therefore develop even
more slowly. At first porn tried to imitate mainstream films and the
results were pathetic for the most part. Now porn doesn't try do
anything, and the results are even worse. If the porn continues to
gain mainstream acceptance and to make more and more money, though,
people will demand more, and talent will rush to fill the void. Then
you'll need more talent than a fry machine operator. A porn actress
will have to be able to both act sexy and act while having sex. She'll
have to reflect the full spectrum of human sexuality, instead of just
acting like a hooker (not a stretch for most of these girls).
>Second, I think your fundamental premise is mistaken. Most sports
>players and most actors don't make squat, probably less than your
>average porn star. (Sports != major leagues) Find a porn star who can
>"fill the seats" on the strength of name recognition, and you'll find
>someone who can make a lot of money. Sort of like Rocco, or Jewel, or
>Peter North, or Juli Ashton.
That's not my fundamental premise. My premise is that although both
sports and entertainment are still limited markets, since free agency
in sports and the end of the studio system in film, the trend has been
towards the sellers of services and not the buyers. As I also said in
my original post, there are fewer true porn stars, despite the
increase in the porno population, which works against the idea of
equity being established in porn. So I don't think porno star power
will happen any time soon, although I'd like to see it happen and I
think everyone except the porn pimps would benefit if it did.
>> Beyond the economics, though, there has to be genuine concern for
>>the welfare of women exposed to this increasingly misogynistic system.
>>I guess unionization would be just about impossible, but something
>>like it would be good idea.
>
>I'm not sure if the "system" is increasingly misogynistic. Sure, the
>acts that they portray on screen seem to be more violent and depraved,
>but one could say that about film in general. On the other hand, the
>actual treatment of the women based on their apparent health and
>happiness seems to have improved. At least from what is visible
>onscreen, it appears that the actors mostly enjoy their jobs and are
>in good physical condition. And they seem to be leaving while they
>are still young and not completely ruined. Compare that with some of
>the old, drugged out, skeezy, scummy, toothy scags who inhabited late
>70's porn. Yes, what they were doing might've looked more romantic,
>but it also sometimes looked as though they required a hit of blow to
>put them in the mood.
Do you really think you can judge the relative health and happiness of
people from watching them in porn films? Perhaps increasingly
misogynistic is inaccurate, however. Increasingly exploitative is
probably more accurate. As the porn machine demands more and more
fresh meat, their recruitment process grows more refined, ruthless and
widespread in scope.
As far as 70's porn goes, I don't think the proportion of beauties to
skanks has ever changed. There's simply more of everything in porn
today. The quantity has increased, but not the quality.
Frank Simmons
>
>Perhaps some detectives should watch some extreme porn and interview
>the actresses to find out whether the scenes were really voluntary.
While I applaud the idea, it most likely wouldn't lead anywhere. Even assuming
the allegations of coersion are true, it is very unlikely that any of the
actresses would be willing to "out" anyone. The industry is still very much a
"good ol' boys" network, and any actress who "makes waves" is likely to find
herself out of work and back to pushing fries or slinging hash.
Frank
** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Angel, Angel W., Candy; Those Were The Days
**
No account
wrote:
>No account <z...@badXbadX.invalid> wrote in news:rame.1001809830p23830
>@hypervillage:
>
>> Now it may be true that in terms of numbers there are rather few porn
>> stars, but in terms of talent, what they do is generally more like
>> what the fry machine operator at McDonald's does than like what Julia
>> Roberts or Barry Bonds does.
>
>Actually, that's not quite true. Try getting wood on command in front of a
>crew with a girl you you just met, keeping it and then coming within 20
>seconds of your cue sometimes. It's not as easy as most guys think. That's
>one of the reasons every 18-year-old male in American isn't doing porn.
Sorry, in my previous message I sort of flipflopped between talking
about female pornstars and pornstars in general. I ought to have said
that as far as FEMALE performers are concerned, it takes very little
in the way of talent to be a porn performer.
>While females can fake orgasms more easily, there are still skills involved
>that the majority of non-porn females don't have. For example, I've yet to
>meet a female performer who had trouble deepthroating me. I've met one non-
>performer who could. I'm relatively certain the problem isn't my massive
>seven-inch penis. Deepthroating is a skill most women don't have.
Let's not kid ourselves though. It's not as though deepthroating
skills require an associates degree. Pretty much anyone who is
willing can be trained to relax their throat muscles over time...we've
even seen pornqueens who couldn't do it gradually learn how to over
time. And it's even possible to have a successful porn career without
ever deepthroating, as the adorable Leanni Lei has unfortunately
demonstrated. (I'm sure somebody will now trot out a feature or two
where she's swallowed a rod...but, in the vast majority of her flicks,
even blowjob compilations, she simply refuses to deepthroat, and she's
not the only starlet of that ilk.)
In reality, being a female pornstar doesn't require any "skills" other
than a willingness to fuck on camera. We've all seen plenty of
females who can't act, can't suck a dick convincingly, are pretty lame
lays, but manage to appear in video after video.
>I see performing in porn as more akin to writing than anything else. Almost
>everybody can write and thinks they're pretty good at it. Damn few of us
>manage to earn a living at it. That takes a different skill level (and a
>whole set of skills amateurs don't even realize exist).
I'll grant you that with respect to male performers, but even still,
as you certainly are aware, most professional writers don't make a
great deal of money, and hence, my point still stands. Porn stars
don't do anything that puts them at an professional echelon that ought
to command instant wealth. And even so, if they are disciplined,
popular and business oriented, they stand to make a fair amount of
money. It seems to me that the "jizz biz" really compensates people
adequately for their skills -- those who are mediocre, make a mediocre
living, and those who are very good make a very good living. And
there are those few who are extremely successful, but really, not so
much for their "acting" (i.e. fucking) but for their skills at
promoting themselves as stars and marketable quantities, such as the
aforementioned Juli Ashton, Tera Patrick, and Danni Ashe. (Has Danni
EVER fucked a guy on camera? Yet she's probably the richest female
adult star of 'em all.)
Summing up, I still dispute Mongo's thesis that porn starlets are
basically gullible females being exploited and taken advantage of. I
think they are paid extremely well, considering their minimal required
skills, and I don't believe they are any more or less gullible than
anyone else who enters a chosen field thinking he or she will strike
it rich. Most actors, insurance salesman, construction workers,
accounts receivables clerks, models, children's book writers...heck,
most people do not make it rich in most fields, although a very few do
get rich in just about every vocation.
No account
<bra...@kamikaze.org > wrote:
>I also meant to add making sure the women are informed to the fact they
>can get up and leave at any time if the circumstances are not what was
>agreed to or unreasonable. Some stay because they think they don't
>have a choice.
That's a little, er, hard to swallow considering that many of the
women appear in multiple features with the allegedly abusive guy.
It's not as if a guy like Paul Little keeps his product so secret that
the girls don't know what they're getting into. Furthermore, one
would think that if word got out that the extreme stuff was really
abusive, you would find fewer and fewer women willing to perform, but
instead, you see increasing numbers of women willing to get into it.
Why does a pornstar who has held out for years not only suddenly start
doing anal, but doing it with abandon? The only reasonable
explanation is that after she does it, she realizes, "Hey, this wasn't
such a big deal after all." Not as "abusive" as she thought. Same
thing with the "gag" tapes. After they've done it a couple of times,
they come to the conclusion that it's really not so horrible...in
fact, usually when a girls starts down the extreme path, she just
keeps getting more and more extreme. Why is this? Is she getting
more and more coërced each time? And then, after she endures the
horrible disgusting experience, somebody manages to "trick" her again
into an even more exploitative performance? It seems to me that a lot
of the extreme women are pretty content to be gaping their various
orifices for money.
--
No account luser (small/shade/ya/hoo/com)
No account
>
>And so now you're jaded and it take more and more extremes to get you
>off. We understand that. But when these extremes are all that get you
>off, what does that mean for decent women who get involved with you?
>
Mister Burgess has probably also seen thousands of murders on
television. I doubt that he's itching to bus' a cap in someone's ass,
though. Most people can distinguish their entertainment from reality.
I could even argue that since he can get his perverted rocks off in
the privacy of his masturbatorium, he might be less inclined to
mistreat a so-called decent woman who he encounters socially.
(And WTF do you mean by a "decent" woman anyway? Would you count
yourself in that category? I think a "decent" woman is a person who
generally treats others and herself with respect. If that means a
little adult webhosting on the side, what's so bad about that?)
--
No account luser
noones...@headcase.novia.net
blood..i dunno what you watch but ive never seen blood in any Max
movie or Slap Happy or Bukkakke or even any S/M flicks
as for screams or looks of pain...ok how do you tell the diff tween a
woman acting and one one who is really in serious pain?....easy..the
one who finishes the scene is acting...the one who runs out and calls
the cops because she was being forcible restrained/forced to
perform..is the real thing.
>Yeah, the big dick was CGI, and the blood is colored corn syrup, the
>cum egg whites or watered down lotion, and the screams and agonized
>looks of the faces of the women are simply evidence of superior acting
>ability. Guaranteed that were the roles reversed there would be no
>videos.
>
>
> --
>Brandy Alexandre
>http://kamikaze.org (Adults Only)
>
>I'm retired, but work part-time as a pain in the butt.
Druber
The
> analogy between mainstream and porn film history is flawed in several
> respects.
> The average
> length of a porn career (for women) has taken a nose dive over the
> last decade.
> There are many factors involved in the shortening of porn careers,
> lack of promotion, overexposure and overuse (i.e. participation in
> gangbang films). Porn ignores the most fundamental of show-biz career
> maxims, "Make sure they remember your name, and leave em wanting
> more".
First I want to stress that what you see on film and what actualy
happens are two seperate things. However depraved something might look
as long as it is enacted by consential players it is okay. And frankly
speaking I am very happy todays actresses consent on so called more
extreme acts than they did when porn was completely new.
Streching your orifices is actually more like doing sports, its a
question of training. What is really abusive is to ask an actress to
play like being in love. To remember all the romance and re-enact it
on the set.
Now, what is bad with not staying in the biz for that long? Today
being a porn actress is just a job like any other. You do it for a few
years, than you leave and do something else. Does staying not so long
prove that porn has become a horror show? No, far from that! Look at
the old 80-ties stars: Stigmatized many turmed to drugs and finaly
comitted suicide. Now compare that with the healthy looking now crop!
They might perform more so called extreme stuff, leave earlier, but
the look a lot healthier.
Now finally to your argument: Todays starlets are far from overused
and overexposed by gangbangs. On the contrary: there are too little
gangbangs, lest one could easier remember an actresses name. Like in
sports - apart from being some eye-candy - performance counts: And
performance is measured in numbers of gangbangs, numbers of dpps and
daps, the dildo-size shoved up each hole etc. Just look at the big
discussion about Aurora Snow in this forum: without her gangbang
nowbody would even know her name.
I am glad finally I can support an industry that does not suck out the
actresses souls, but just wants them to be good sports-women. I am
glad the industry does not ask for romance and genuine feelings for
somebody they might not really like but only physical training.
Druber
Druber
> Ridley99,
>
> you make some good points about some sick shit taking place in some films, I
> don't like to see girls vomit, cry, or bleed either, but I do like seeing a
> young fresh face girl, 18+, getting fucked hard up the ass by multiple guys,
> eating their cum and get pissed on as well, yeah it's a bit extreme compared
> to the days of Ron Jeremy sticking his cock in a 30 something year old woman
> in missionary position then cumming on her belly as the climax. Just like
> everything else porn has progressed, in multiple directions. There is
> something for any taste now, not everyone has to like everything about porn,
> never was that way, never will be.
Very good point. Let me sign on that - maybe leave the piss away, but
as you say there is something for every taste.
Me, am very glad todays actresses look a lot healthier than in the
80-ties. Porn indeed moved further. What we could see in a porn-film
in the beginning of the 80-ties one can see now in mainstream cinema.
For this reason it is only natural that porn producers had to find new
fields beyond missionary intercourse and fake-romance. Since you can
build up your body, train to jump wider, train to run faster I am glad
there are also girls out there training to stuff their orifices with
whatever be at hand.
I am very curious what the porn-industry will bring us in the future.
As long as they find consenting actresses I do hope we will still get
more so called deprivity and especially much more ass-fucking by
multiple guys, gangbangs and bucketfuls of cum.
Druber
Mongo@Bay
>"Mongo@Bay" <mitc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<
rame.1001622735p10657@hypervillage>...
>The
>> analogy between mainstream and porn film history is flawed in several
>> respects.
>
>> The average
>> length of a porn career (for women) has taken a nose dive over the
>> last decade.
>> There are many factors involved in the shortening of porn careers,
>> lack of promotion, overexposure and overuse (i.e. participation in
>> gangbang films). Porn ignores the most fundamental of show-biz career
>> maxims, "Make sure they remember your name, and leave em wanting
>> more".
>
>First I want to stress that what you see on film and what actualy
>happens are two seperate things. However depraved something might look
>as long as it is enacted by consential players it is okay. And frankly
>speaking I am very happy todays actresses consent on so called more
>extreme acts than they did when porn was completely new.
>Streching your orifices is actually more like doing sports, its a
>question of training. What is really abusive is to ask an actress to
>play like being in love. To remember all the romance and re-enact it
>on the set.
Acting is abusive, but participating in a "Slap Happy" vid where
you're beaten until you're bruised is o.k.? WTF is abusive about being
asked to act? We're the ones being abused when a "starlet" of today is
asked to pretend to be someone they're not. Listen to Mariah or Gauge
attempt to read just a line or two. It's painful to hear. They're both
so fucking stupid it's frightening. It's not just length of careers
that's going down, it's the average age and the average iq of these
girls. Nowadays too much porn is like watching retarded girls getting
seduced by the dregs of humanity. Real sexy stuff.
>Now, what is bad with not staying in the biz for that long? Today
>being a porn actress is just a job like any other. You do it for a few
>years, than you leave and do something else. Does staying not so long
>prove that porn has become a horror show? No, far from that! Look at
>the old 80-ties stars: Stigmatized many turmed to drugs and finaly
>comitted suicide. Now compare that with the healthy looking now crop!
>They might perform more so called extreme stuff, leave earlier, but
>the look a lot healthier.
Unhealthy 80's stars? Like who? Suicide victims like Shauna Grant,
Savannah and Megan Leigh were obviously deeply troubled, but they
looked perfectly healthy. And oh yeah, drugs. None of today's starlets
would ever touch drugs. If you think today's porn performers are
psychically healthier than their predecessors, you're kidding
yourself.
>Now finally to your argument: Todays starlets are far from overused
>and overexposed by gangbangs. On the contrary: there are too little
>gangbangs, lest one could easier remember an actresses name. Like in
>sports - apart from being some eye-candy - performance counts: And
>performance is measured in numbers of gangbangs, numbers of dpps and
>daps, the dildo-size shoved up each hole etc. Just look at the big
>discussion about Aurora Snow in this forum: without her gangbang
>nowbody would even know her name.
>I am glad finally I can support an industry that does not suck out the
>actresses souls, but just wants them to be good sports-women. I am
>glad the industry does not ask for romance and genuine feelings for
>somebody they might not really like but only physical training.
I love a good gangbang video, but after I see a girl perform in one I
have no real interest in seeing anything else from her. Whereas in the
past I would actively seek out more video from girls I thought were
attractive, what's the point of seeing Dina Juwel, for example, take
on one guy after I've seen her take on a dozen? If she could act, at
least I'd get to see her do something different. Then maybe I'd buy
more of her stuff.
TetsuwanATOM
news:rame.1001493015p19453@hypervillage...
> Mr.Ridley, this should be labeled offically as part 2 to your
> original post as in alot of ways is going to open the same
> debates... i still think you are projecting a little into the
> topic, but overall agree with you alot more then before,
> though i do not agree with you about 21 over 18 (and
> is infact 16 if you were in 90% of Europe, Russia, or
> Japan.. about anywhere but the U.S. and Germany.
>
16 is legal in Japan? Uh, no . . . Unless you are talking about the
illegal telephone club business.
--
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JAVrezutrad...@yahoogroups.com
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www.rame.net (JAV where 2 buy FAQ location)
TetsuwanATOM
>
> Too true. Until something comes along that differentiates itself from
> the pack in terms of profitability. It may come from a completely
> different direction, though. Just as a foreign film, "I Am Curious,
> Yellow," started this whole phenomenon, Europe is once again leading
> the way by mixing mainstream filmmaking and hardcore sex scenes. A
> quality sex film that is even a modest world-wide hit could cause a
> huge change.
I have my doubts about this. The prevailing opinion on these movies is that
the real sex has little place in a non-porn film. Most people are just too
uncomfortable watching people actually have sex in a room full of people
that isn't a group of drunken frat boys. They'd rather be at home where
they can whip it out or whatever. Even though someone as talented as Kerry
Fox has done this, I don't see it becoming a common occurrence. What
filmmakers have to ask themselves is whether real sex in say, a crime drama,
is even necessary. Does it help the story telling experience or does it
detract from it? Does it take the viewer out of the film? I wouldn't want
people still thinking about Julia Roberts getting analed during the real
climax of my movie. Anyway, her fan base would probably toss out a volley
of "ew, gross" at the site of a real sex scene in the theatre
Porn serves an entirely different purpose, a very specific purpose. It
should turn SOMEONE on. All other concerns should be secondary, or at least
enhance the mission to turn someone on. Mainstream films have a more varied
mission.
People like Lars Von Trier aren't trying to change mainstream movies with
their porn, they are trying to make interesting porn with their art house
technique. A film like "Baise Moi" was trying to make a message film by
using graphic sex scenes and it wasn't all that great.
dirty-dan
>> though i do not agree with you about 21 over 18 (and
>> is infact 16 if you were in 90% of Europe, Russia, or
>> Japan.. about anywhere but the U.S. and Germany.
>>
>16 is legal in Japan? Uh, no . . . Unless you are talking about the
>illegal telephone club business.
Yep, changed about a year ago - was it not in Japan... 16 is still true
for U.K., Holland, most of Europe and Russia, 16 being the legal age
to perform in an adult movie.. not 18 as is now here, or 21 as suggested
in this thread.
This creates challanges when importing and absolutely making sure
of model releases when licensing materials for release in the states.
*************************************************************************
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Druber
> Acting is abusive, but participating in a "Slap Happy" vid where
> you're beaten until you're bruised is o.k.? WTF is abusive about being
> asked to act?
> that's going down, it's the average age and the average iq of these
> girls.
There is a lot of beating in mainstream movies, much more than in
porn. If Hollywood is ok than "Slap Happy" is it even more. Although,
personally, I do not enjoy such films at all.
And: why should I be concerned about a starlets iq as long as she
looks hot and does all the nasty stuff I want to see? If she cannot
remember a line, ok, as long as she moans convincingly it is alright.
And to talk dirty luckily you dont need to be intelligent.
> None of today's starlets would ever touch drugs. (...)
Very cynic, but yes, you might be right. Certainly there are also
todays starlets that do drugs - I doubt however wheter a big
proportion of all the new, European fresh meat is doing drugs. And
they certainly look a lot healthier than many of the old-time stars.
> I love a good gangbang video, but after I see a girl perform in one I
> have no real interest in seeing anything else from her. Whereas in the
> past I would actively seek out more video from girls I thought were
> attractive, what's the point of seeing Dina Juwel, for example, take
> on one guy after I've seen her take on a dozen?
I do not bother with actresses taking only at one guy at all - unless
she is really super-attaractive.
And I dont get your point: Seems you treat a gangbang as the peak
thing in a porn career, from where there is only one further step -
retirement. So you watch a girl, fellow her career always hoping for a
gangbang while at the same time being afraid she does it to soon,
because as soon as she does it you will loose her?
To me a girl has first to proof that she is a real trooper. If she is
really into modern hardcore she will start with the so called deprived
stuff, maybe show up first in a Rocco movie, build herself a
reputation and than move on. After having done 10 I will gladly watch
her doing 5 or 3 always hoping for yet another real gangbang or at
leat a dap.
Of course if a gangbang kills your interest you might call those girls
overused and overexposed - but this is entirely your problem. To me a
gangbang is sort of an initiation, a starting point to a sucessfull
porn career.
Druber
TetsuwanATOM
> ,
> >> though i do not agree with you about 21 over 18 (and
> >> is infact 16 if you were in 90% of Europe, Russia, or
> >> Japan.. about anywhere but the U.S. and Germany.
> >>
> >16 is legal in Japan? Uh, no . . . Unless you are talking about the
> >illegal telephone club business.
>
> Yep, changed about a year ago - was it not in Japan... 16 is still true
> for U.K., Holland, most of Europe and Russia, 16 being the legal age
> to perform in an adult movie.. not 18 as is now here, or 21 as suggested
> in this thread.
>
> This creates challanges when importing and absolutely making sure
> of model releases when licensing materials for release in the states.
I think you should check your sources again. 18 was the legal age for
particpation in hardcore for several years. Before that, nudity of under
18s was tolerated, but not hardcore sex. Those vids were strictly black
market. The Japanese industry is self-censored by a board of review which
must OK each release (those little NEVA stickers you see on boxes)
--
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JAVrezutrad...@yahoogroups.com
http://www.lezlovevideo.com/help/help_japanese_av.asp?
www.rame.net (JAV where 2 buy FAQ location)
Inkubus
>There is a lot of beating in mainstream movies, much more than in
>porn. If Hollywood is ok than "Slap Happy" is it even more.
I have to disagree - there may be a lot of beating in Hollywood
mainstream movies but the differences are:
People doing the beating are almost always the bad guys and
therefore it portrayed as a 'bad thing' and *punished*
Hollywood movies do not give the impression that the person being
beaten enjoys/wants/accepts it and so people watching do not think
that emulating this action with real women will be acceptable.
Mongo@Bay
>"Mongo@Bay" <mitc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<
>rame.1002166267p27640@hypervillage>...
>> Acting is abusive, but participating in a "Slap Happy" vid where
>> you're beaten until you're bruised is o.k.? WTF is abusive about being
>> asked to act?
>> It's not just length of careers
>> that's going down, it's the average age and the average iq of these
>> girls.
>
>There is a lot of beating in mainstream movies, much more than in
>porn. If Hollywood is ok than "Slap Happy" is it even more. Although,
>personally, I do not enjoy such films at all.
>And: why should I be concerned about a starlets iq as long as she
>looks hot and does all the nasty stuff I want to see? If she cannot
>remember a line, ok, as long as she moans convincingly it is alright.
>And to talk dirty luckily you dont need to be intelligent.
There's a difference between real bruises and makeup. Anyone who
prefers real bruises is sick. As far as iq goes, confident
intelligence is sexy. Someone like Taylor Hayes is a rarity today.
Doe- like creatures like Aurora Snow are more the norm. I prefer
Taylor, she's going to have more sides to her, more reason to buy more
than one tape.
>> None of today's starlets would ever touch drugs. (...)
>
>Very cynic, but yes, you might be right. Certainly there are also
>todays starlets that do drugs - I doubt however wheter a big
>proportion of all the new, European fresh meat is doing drugs. And
>they certainly look a lot healthier than many of the old-time stars.
That's subjective. Do you really know that much about the old-time
stars? I'm talking about the stars here, Stacy Donovan, Kimberly
Carson, Ginger Lynn, etc. not the sleazy third string girls. Name me
one old-time star that was unhealthy looking.
>> I love a good gangbang video, but after I see a girl perform in one I
>> have no real interest in seeing anything else from her. Whereas in the
>> past I would actively seek out more video from girls I thought were
>> attractive, what's the point of seeing Dina Juwel, for example, take
>> on one guy after I've seen her take on a dozen?
>I do not bother with actresses taking only at one guy at all - unless
>she is really super-attaractive.
>And I dont get your point: Seems you treat a gangbang as the peak
>thing in a porn career, from where there is only one further step -
>retirement. So you watch a girl, fellow her career always hoping for a
>gangbang while at the same time being afraid she does it to soon,
>because as soon as she does it you will loose her?
>To me a girl has first to proof that she is a real trooper. If she is
>really into modern hardcore she will start with the so called deprived
>stuff, maybe show up first in a Rocco movie, build herself a
>reputation and than move on. After having done 10 I will gladly watch
>her doing 5 or 3 always hoping for yet another real gangbang or at
>leat a dap.
>Of course if a gangbang kills your interest you might call those girls
>overused and overexposed - but this is entirely your problem. To me a
>gangbang is sort of an initiation, a starting point to a sucessfull
>porn career.
I assume you meant depraved rather than deprived, but it's an
interesting Freudian slip.
I like variety. Current porn doesn't provide variety. If you've seen a
girl once, why buy another tape? It's just going to be the same old
thing. Dap means nothing to me. Most of the time you can't see the
girl's face in that position. All you see are two fucking guy's butts
instead of one. What's sexy about that? They could be fucking anybody.
At least in the old days you could see some attempt at variety.
Pathetic attempts, maybe, but at least they tried. I could see Kim
Carson be demure in one tape and a super slut in another. Then I could
check her out in a wacky Dark Bros. vid like New Wave Hookers.
Nowadays the only variety is a gangbang
dirty-dan
>particpation in hardcore for several years. Before that, nudity of under
>18s was tolerated, but not hardcore sex. Those vids were strictly black
>market. The Japanese industry is self-censored by a board of review which
>must OK each release (those little NEVA stickers you see on boxes)
Well i only know what i read in the papers about Japan, in Europe i
am aware from associated businesses what their requirements are
and warrants decisions we make into what content to import and what
to pass on.
I do know awhile back a U.S. citizen was arrested for photos he made in
Russia... but in Russia people there had broken no law as the age in
the area to do such materials was 13 for the models to do such work
(here i think i would join the in the screaming about this being
unacceptable)
In the past Japan created all kinds of garbage... at the time this
statement was made in the Associated Press critical of Japan:
>Despite heightened media attention and international expressions of
>disapproval, the Government and society in general appear to take a lenient
>attitude toward teenage prostitution and dating for money, and the
>production and common availability of youth oriented erotica, which may or
>may not involve sexual activities with females as young as 13.
I do think the laws have changed, for the better to protect the females
from explotation... and i quote the AP story about this here with credit
given: (Obviously before this story no such restraints were in place)
Was alot of pressure brought to bare on Japan to make these changes.
My perspective is that it is shacky for anyone under 18 to be making
such decisions... but in the rest of the world outside the U.S. 16 is
almost the universal age of consent to enter such agreements.
>Wednesday, May 19, 1999
>The Associated Press
>TOKYO -- Japan's lower house of Parliament on Tuesday banned the
>production and sale of child pornography and outlawed sex with a minor,
>answering mounting criticism over the country's lax sex-crime laws.
>The measure has been approved by the upper house, so the vote made
>it law. The Justice Ministry said the new restrictions will take effect in
>the fall.
>The vote follows growing international criticism that Japanese inaction
>on sex tourism and Internet child pornography was allowing the crimes to
>persist at home and abroad.
>The new law bans the sale, distribution, production, possession, and
>trading of child pornography and imposes punishments of up to three
>years in prison or fines of up to $24,400 for violators.
>The legislation also makes it illegal to have sex with a minor 17 or
>younger. Violators will face a prison term of up to three years and
>fines of up to $8,100.
>Until now, the law only banned sex for money or production of
>erotic video materials with those younger than 13, and offenders
>could be charged if the victim filed a criminal complaint.
Anything i don't understand is based on the fact i only
interpert what i read.......
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TetsuwanATOM
news:rame.1002108609p10090@hypervillage...
> "Mongo@Bay" <mitc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<rame.1001622735p10657@hypervillage>...
> The
> Now finally to your argument: Todays starlets are far from overused
> and overexposed by gangbangs. On the contrary: there are too little
> gangbangs, lest one could easier remember an actresses name. Like in
> sports - apart from being some eye-candy - performance counts: And
> performance is measured in numbers of gangbangs, numbers of dpps and
> daps, the dildo-size shoved up each hole etc. Just look at the big
> discussion about Aurora Snow in this forum: without her gangbang
> nowbody would even know her name.
Bollocks! I knew her name when I saw her in Amsterdam last year. (^_^)
--
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JAVrezutrad...@yahoogroups.com
http://www.lezlovevideo.com/help/help_japanese_av.asp?
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TetsuwanATOM
> >I think you should check your sources again. 18 was the legal age for
> >particpation in hardcore for several years. Before that, nudity of under
> >18s was tolerated, but not hardcore sex. Those vids were strictly black
> >market. The Japanese industry is self-censored by a board of review
which
> >must OK each release (those little NEVA stickers you see on boxes)
>
> Well i only know what i read in the papers about Japan, in Europe i
> am aware from associated businesses what their requirements are
> and warrants decisions we make into what content to import and what
> to pass on.
>
> I do think the laws have changed, for the better to protect the females
> from explotation... and i quote the AP story about this here with credit
> given: (Obviously before this story no such restraints were in place)
> Was alot of pressure brought to bare on Japan to make these changes.
> My perspective is that it is shacky for anyone under 18 to be making
> such decisions... but in the rest of the world outside the U.S. 16 is
> almost the universal age of consent to enter such agreements.
>
> Anything i don't understand is based on the fact i only
> interpert what i read.......
>
Right well, 1) this article is more than a year old, and 2), like I said
the industry has been self-censored for years. Any look back over the years
just before this law was passed, you wont find any of those girls in porn
vids produced by major and "independent" companies under 18. Its because of
the interpretation of what is "obscene." For instance, this pre-1999
reading of the law;
In Japan, there is no law which criminalizes production, distribution and
possession of child
pornography. However, Article 175 of the Penal Code generally prohibits and
establishes a criminal
sanction for the distribution, sale, display and possession of obscene
objects for the purpose of
commercialisation, and Article 34 of the Child Welfare Law Sanctions
concerns, among other
things, engaging a child in promiscuous habit or illicit intercourse. In
interpretation of these
statutes, it should be noted that simple nudity without the exposure of
genitals is not generally
deemed obscene nor promiscuous.
So the industry avoided using minors in general. I used to think that there
were high school freshmen running around doing porn in Japan regularly, too.
But I was set right. If you knew where to go you for child porn you could
get it. But nudes were readily available.
it is my understanding that the use of fake IDs was somewhat common the
industry.
Note that the story you've quoted refers to sex tourism (prostitution) and
Internet porn. It was basically girls from the developing SE Asian nations
being brought over, photographed nude or "turned out" by Triads and Yakuza,
along with the kogaru phenomenon (which hasn't quite gone away). There was
internal and external pressure on the Diet to clamp down on child porn and
child prostitution. However, it appears that some loopholes still exist.
--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JAVrezutrade
JAVrezutrad...@yahoogroups.com
http://www.lezlovevideo.com/help/help_japanese_av.asp?
www.rame.net (JAV where 2 buy FAQ location)
Tom Collins
>really having sex in Hollywood "sex scenes" either.
I seem to recall there was some movie where an actor pissed off his
female co-star by claiming in interviews that he was really screwing
her in some sex scene.
Nick Adams
news:rame.1002292230p21735@hypervillage:
> Hello? I Hollywood movie it's fake, and choreographed. They really do
> it in porn. There is a major difference. And guess what: They aren't
> really having sex in Hollywood "sex scenes" either. Just thought you
> should know.
Ah, now you've ruined the fantasy. :>
Seriously, people will see what they want to see regardless of what's
actually on the screen. I picked up Days of Whore after a buddy told me how
brutal it was and how they just slapped the hell out of these girls and
really brutalized them.
Halfway through the video, I was laughing uncontrollably. I've seen punches
faked better on the original Star Trek and Gunsmoke. I half-expected the
male talent to stamp their feet on the punches to make that "whoomping"
sound like the old pro wrestlers used to do. But my buddy swears every slap
is real. Even after I showed him the tub scene frame by frame so that he
could see the girls face never actually touched the water, he was convinced
the slapping was real. (Standard trick: she wet her hair to the roots, then
whipped it around a lot.)
On the other hand, I've also seen a few tapes where they're either much
better at faking it than Hollywood or those punches are real. That's where
it gets tricky. The ones who are really assaulting women should be stopped
but there has to be a way to do it without penalizing people who are just
good at their craft. I'd hate to see someone go to jail for being the only
guy in porn valley who hired a good prosthetics make-up artist.
Take care,
Nick
-----------------------------------------------------
What appears to be coming at you, is coming from you.
=====================================================
http://www.jordanlee.com/ ICQ: 26038313
Joey Dice
few posts ago because I think it goes far beyond the world of porn.
Many entertainment companies nowadays (especially the music industry I
work in) seem to be putting out product as a direct result of a
backlash.
In the early 90's, Alanis Morrisette was topping the music charts with
feminist and politically charged anthems. In 2000, you have half naked
underage teenage girl sex machines singing bubble gum pop with multi
million dollar product endorsements pushing disposable cameras and skin
cream. There used to be a time in the 90's when alternative indie
college rock ruled radio. That music genre no longer exists in the year
2001. It's all about rap metal, gluttony, women, money, and excess.
I feel the internet is the number one reason for this cultural / porn
backlash. The world is literally at our fingertips. The average
raincoater no longer has to fly to Amsterdam and smuggle a copy of "Goat
Sex Magazine" back thru customs. He can view it in the privacy of his
own home without moving a muscle. Why would the average teenage boy be
interested in searching thru his father's closet looking for a copy of
playboy when he'd rather be sitting in his bedroom downloading fisting
videos on his very own laptop computer. The average teenage boy is no
longer pressuring his girlfriend for a squeeze of the tit because he'd
rather try anal instead. Society is more sexed up than ever because of
the internet. People are desensitized, they need a stronger fix, they're
tired of the norm. Extreme adult video is just another sign of the
entertainment times. The competition for your entertainment dollar is
harder than ever due to the internet. A majority of entertainment
industry is abandoning decency norms of the past and now relying on pure
shock value to try and get a leg up on the competition.
The U.S. is getting more politically conservative yet more socially
liberal at the very same time. Historically, entertainment has always
been used as a measuring stick to define cultures at a specific time.
These are very odd times.......
Joey Dice
Mongo@Bay
<chokc...@netscape.net> wrote:
>> >"Mongo@Bay" <mitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Too true. Until something comes along that differentiates itself from
>> the pack in terms of profitability. It may come from a completely
>> different direction, though. Just as a foreign film, "I Am Curious,
>> Yellow," started this whole phenomenon, Europe is once again leading
>> the way by mixing mainstream filmmaking and hardcore sex scenes. A
>> quality sex film that is even a modest world-wide hit could cause a
>> huge change.
>
>I have my doubts about this. The prevailing opinion on these movies is that
>the real sex has little place in a non-porn film. Most people are just too
>uncomfortable watching people actually have sex in a room full of people
>that isn't a group of drunken frat boys. They'd rather be at home where
>they can whip it out or whatever.
Sure. Porn didn't become truly popular until the VCR made it something
you could watch at home. This doesn't preclude what you watch at home
from being high quality, though.
> Even though someone as talented as Kerry
>Fox has done this, I don't see it becoming a common occurrence. What
>filmmakers have to ask themselves is whether real sex in say, a crime drama,
>is even necessary. Does it help the story telling experience or does it
>detract from it? Does it take the viewer out of the film? I wouldn't want
>people still thinking about Julia Roberts getting analed during the real
>climax of my movie. Anyway, her fan base would probably toss out a volley
>of "ew, gross" at the site of a real sex scene in the theatre
Julia Roberts getting analed, be still my heart. But really, I
couldn't agree more. Explicit sex and violence doesn't add to the
value of a film, IMO. Art almost always benefits from restraint.
Still, sex and violence in mainstream films has become more and more
commonplace and explicit. There's so much simulated sex in mainstream
films, these European films are just taking it a small step further.
As porn becomes more and more a commonplace in society, you see it
reflected in mainstream filmmaking. In a recent thread, "Use of porn
stars in "mainstream" films," the recent release, "Le Pornographe" is
discussed. This film is about a former porn director who is attempting
a comeback. Explicit sex seems a reasonable element in a film about
someone who produces explicit sex films. Other films have used
explicit sex as a shock technique and still others have used it in a
rather matter of fact fashion. I'm not certain explicit sex will ever
become commonplace, but you never know. The first screen kiss caused a
huge controversy (with not even a hint of tongue, either). Can you
imagine someone today objecting to a chaste kiss? They would be
ridiculed. Social mores can change radically in a fairly short time.
>Porn serves an entirely different purpose, a very specific purpose. It
>should turn SOMEONE on. All other concerns should be secondary, or at least
>enhance the mission to turn someone on. Mainstream films have a more varied
>mission.
While I agree that porn and mainstream filmmaking have different
goals, I also feel that modern porn does a very poor job of reflecting
the complexities of human sexuality. Just because porn is supposed to
turn you on doesn't mean there's not many ways of doing that. Beyond
imagination though, there's the issue of competence. I can't count the
number of times I've seen potentially great sex scenes ruined by poor
lighting, camera angles or by directing/editing decisions that defy
understanding.
>People like Lars Von Trier aren't trying to change mainstream movies with
>their porn, they are trying to make interesting porn with their art house
>technique. A film like "Baise Moi" was trying to make a message film by
>using graphic sex scenes and it wasn't all that great.
I don't think that's what these directors are doing. I think these
directors, by adding explicit sex to their films, are trying to push
the envelope of mainstream filmmaking, not create interesting porn. I
don't want to see explicit sex in mainstream movies, I just want to
see real filmmakers making porn. To do anything well takes talent, and
so far the best talents that porn has drawn to its ranks have been
mediocre hacks.
Bob Trebilcock
years ago, a film about Italian politics. The scene involved a woman going
down on her lover, who was in prison, during a conjugal visit.
Despite having seen literally hundreds of porn films, it was disconcerting
to watch the seen in a mainstream movie; nor was it particularly erotic
since the film was quite demagogic in its politics.
Filmining explicit sex in a mainstream movie is just a silly idea. It
doesn't make the action on the screen any more real than would filming an
actual murder in a crime movie.
Too much of porn today seems to be about pushing limits and boundaries just
to push, rather than about producing hot sex. Even couples films from Vivid
have this real underlying anger in a lot of the scenes. I just want to watch
couples who seem genuinely hot for one another -- who can't wait to devour
one another sexually -- go at it. I don't want to watch women vomiting,
gagging, getting slapped around, getting analed while wrapped in an Amercan
flag, or any of the other crap that it seems like some companies are
pushing.
"Mongo@Bay" <mitc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rame.1002567740p18776@hypervillage...
Flt100
Tal
>
> I couldn't agree more. Amen.
I also agree to some extent, but I don't know that we want to evoke any
particular deities in the matter, if that's what you're "Amen" was meant
to do.
I think we can handle this ourselves.
What fans have to do is make their voices heard. Call, write and e-mail
your local video stores, porn producers, porn stars, manufactures and
distributors. Anybody and everybody you can think of.
Make you opinion known to the people who produce porn.
It can't hurt and it might help.
I have no problem with extreme sex as long as what's done is done in a
positive rather than a negative way.
Tal
http://www.taliesinthebard.com
Pornoman
news:rame.1002625208p1243@hypervillage...
> Bernardo Bertelucci filmed a real blow job in one of his films [...]
> Filmining explicit sex in a mainstream movie is just a silly idea. It
> doesn't make the action on the screen any more real than would filming an
> actual murder in a crime movie.
Hmmm...I don't know about that; Caligula (the uncut, full version) is still
one of the best movies in my book. The sex scenes seem all the more erotic
because they seem "real" and the movie itself benefits from the sex scenes
and becomes more "authentic".
No question one of the best mainstream AND adult films of all
time...probably explains why I've watched it 20 times...
Inkubus
<porn...@timessquareproducts.com> wrote:
>Hmmm...I don't know about that; Caligula (the uncut, full version) is still
>one of the best movies in my book.
Which is odd since most, if not all of, the hardcore sex was added
after the 'completion' of the film and against the original director's
intentions (and without the knowledge of some of the actors).
I'm surprised that with the scenes 'hacked' in that they flow well
enough to really add to the film though I am quite willing to admit
that I obviously can't say for sure since I've only ever seen the
version where the film has been 'restored' to the original director's
intentions.
Pornoman
news:rame.1002911408p10411@hypervillage...
> Which is odd since most, if not all of, the hardcore sex was added
> after the 'completion' of the film and against the original director's
> intentions (and without the knowledge of some of the actors).
I remember hearing the same thing too (about some of the more well known
actors not knowing about the hardcore sex) but in the new DVD release, they
have a "making of" trailer with interviews with the stars. One thing they
all admit is that the explicit sex is sure to shock everyone (of course,
maybe they *still* didn't expect what eventually came out)...
Avenger
rame.1001433784p8385@hypervillage>...
> its scary to think of the direction porn is headed.
> when i began to watch porn it was a harmless excursion into jerk off
> land. Ron Jeremy or Peter North would boff some pretty girl, once in a while
> the cum shot would be too the face, sometimes it would be on the stomach or
the
> back. the scene would end nice nioce and ron would go off to consume the
local
> Pazza hut.
Oh, yes! Gimme back the good old days of that fat hog Ron Jeremy and
that robot Peter North going through the dull, boring bump and grind
of plain vanilla sex! You can just never get enough of that.
> things began to change with John T Bone, Gangbangs came into vogue,
things
> began to get nastier. facial cumshots became more frequent. more asnd more
you
> began yto see women in what i call " situations " they began to sweat for
thier
> pay, thier faces contorted into painful expressions. TT-Boy was T-Bones
living
> instument of agression.
TT-Boy has never been a favorite of mine but he's got miles on Peter
North, performance-wise. At least he gives us a performance that
doesn't look like a machine that's been programmed to fuck for a
living. And who could complain about facials? Are you kidding me?! And
hey, everyone in the world has to sweat for their pay on one way or
another. Why should porn stars be any different?
> about 1993 things really began to change, Anabolic, and people like Rob
> Black became more dominant in the bizness, we began to see more Anal, more
> DPs.
And you then proceed to complain about anal!? There was a period of
time when porn was completely unintersting to me. Interestingly
enough, it was just about the time when there was nothing in there but
plain old sex. Two people fucking like machines with no enthusiasm and
absolutely no emotion. Thankfully, that all eventually changed. Now
you want it to go back? Forgive me. Do you know what year it is?
<snip>
> but in the last 2
> years porn has gone from interesting to downright sickening. everything has
> been takin to an extreme level, resembling downright female abuse. Men are
> literrally using porn to further thier perverted ambitious of hurting women,
And need I remind you that these women are not compelled to perform
in any of these videos against their will? I don't think men want to
hurt women at all. I think some men and women have fantasies of rough
sex. Sex without limits. However, they realize that it's unrealistic
to expect real life women to act out these fantasies. So, they get the
next best thing. They rent videos done by women who are paid very well
to do what they do and are doing it willingly.
> the girls in porn most
> of them in the 18 to 22 range . an age i have stated is to young for a girl
to
> make such decisions about thier lives,
I see your point. There must be countless men who just can't wait
until granny porn goes mainstream. There are 18 year old *women* who
would laugh you out of existence for suggesting that they can't make
decesions about their lives.
> and they are literrally marched though
> the seven fings of hell before the industry spits them out.
Oh, stop, please! You're killing me! Yep. I see porn producers
lurking the streets all the time, stalking their pray. Just waiting to
pounce. Please.
> Alrex Hiddel chokes women with his massive dick, gagging them till they
> vomit, almost busting thier jaws as he uses thier heads like a nut cracker.
And at any given time. All they have to do is leave the porn industry
and they need never worry about such humiliation again. I think it
would be fair to say that almost all of these women know what the porn
industry is all about when they get into it. If they don't, they find
out soon enough. If they don't like it, nothing is stopping them from
getting an education and getting a real job. It's that simple.
> women are analed as roughly as humanly possible in Armegedon videos, this is
> not sex, this is not erotica this is criminal, this is video tailored to
would
> be rapists.
Man, you need help. I enjoy these videos and am insulted by your
insinuation that I'm a would be rapist. I would no more rape anyone
than I would steal something I want rather than work for it. I enjoy
the fantasy. Now if these producers were roaming the streets and
dragging these women, kicking and screaming into these videos, I'd
have a problem with it. Obviously, people who rent and buy these
videos are not criminals, or would be criminals. Otherwise, most of
them would be in jail and be unable to rent or buy them.
> and as many teenagers are watching it, sneaking it into vcrs late
> at night or when thier parents aren't home, i am afraid we are breeding a
> generation that think that this is how women should be treated.
Which is why parents should educate their children from a very young
age about sex and teach them the difference between fantasy and
reality. It's not all that hard. It's just that in our sex phobic
society (Which you are obviously working to maintain), the parents
themselves were never educated in that area.
> porn has sunk into a smelly vile abyss run by people with cruel thoughts,
> the kind of people who as children enjoyed pulling the wings off butterflys
now
> they beat the shit out of women.
My theory is that you get off on taking these little potshots and
sitting back and watching the chaos that ensues. God only knows why
you're allowed to continuously do it.
<snip>
> we know John Ashcroft has his hands busy right now, but when he gets
though
> giving mr Bin Laden a B-52 enema he will have plenty of time to straighten
out
> the porn business and he will have plenty of nice new laws to help him.
And in this simple statement, you have revealed your real intent. How
long before one of these nice, new laws gets twisted into a weapon
against some civil liberty that you'd rather not give up? It can
happen. In the blink of an eye, a law you thought was harmless as long
as it is used to combat something you're against can come back and
bite you in the ass. Just don't whine about it when it happens....
Confused
> > and you as the
> >consumer have the choice in terms of supporting these "disgusting"
> >individuals you speak of. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
That's the most sound advice Mr. Riddle has received thus far.
>
> my question now is what is next, where do we go from here, while we wait
for
> the ineventible fatality that will close down the industry forever.
> Pissing, Fisting, Animal, Vomiting, Torture and finally SNUFF.
> hey i like porn as much as the next mother fucker, but no matter what
you
> tell me ...when women are being abused...you can count me the fuck out.
Fine. Get out. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Women are
not being abused. Let me say that again. Women are NOT being abused.
My sense of sight is being abused by seeing your drivel. If you want
to talk about abuse, there are things going on out there that are
beyond legal reproach that are ten times more abusive than anything
going on in the porn industry. Why don't you post this crap on one of
the picture posting newsgroups? I'm sure they'd be more than willing
to wake you up.
Ranx
"Brandy Alexandre " <bra...@kamikaze.org > wrote:
> After serious umbilicus contemplation, lakeqi wrote in
> news:rame.1001457028p26183@hypervillage:
>
> > ridley, do you ever shut up? sure we are marching towards
> > armagedon, but so what, let us have our fun.Is it SO inconceivable
> > to you that the women who are in these movies might actually enjoy
> > being abused sexually?That they might enjoy drinking lots of
> > cum?Maybe they are into sexual experimentation. you keep saynig
> > over and over and over again how the guys who make and presumably
> > enjoy these movies should have the same things done to them- well
> > just tell me where to sign up, if there WERE women who enjoyed
> > doing these things to men then guys like me could suffer the
> > revenge youre always ranting about- women have lots of money, they
> > can produce vids where men are being abused. I love to see women
> > stretched to the limits and beyond - and yet one of the best movies
> > i saw this year was return of the boss bitches where guys got
> > abused- wake up dude its called human sexuality.
>
> If that's what you want to believe, go right ahead. Ridley is right
> and I agree with him. Porn is no longer the dipiction of intimacy, but
> freak shows that caterr to the lowest common denominator. I agree that
> if you like what the industry is putting out today, you hate women.
> There is no other explanation. When people say that I should get back
> into the business so I will "get what I deserve," and knowing what my
> opinated nature has brought me as a reputation, then it is clear that
> people view porn as a place to enact revenge upon women for imagined
> slights or feelings of inferiorty they produce.
>
> This isn't human sexuality, it's sexual abuse. If you think it is
> human sexuality, then you are a victim of just what Ridley predicted.
>
>
>
> --
> Brandy Alexandre
> http://kamikaze.org (Adults Only)
>
Uh Yeah Brandy , er, right...WRONG!
Sexual Intimacy did you say? I haven't seen any intimacy in porn, and
I've been watching this stuff since I was a teen. I mean, there is
barely any kissing if any at all, titplay outside of the tit fuck is
noexistent, pussy eating, unless done by chicks is gone too. WShere are
the tit squeezing, nipple play, hot tongue kissing, good pussy eating
(Thanks Sean Michaels and Ron Jeremy for loving pussy so much, FUCK YOU
Peter North I wish you didn't look so pained near the fish spot...I
guess once you get a taste of man-ass nothing ever seems as good as it
used to...) It's dick in mouth, dick in ass, and then pop shot into any
known place or orifice. It is the SAME formula used since this porn
crap started.
There were actually more rape style vids (re: Sometimes Sweet Susan
anyone?) back in teh 70's, things bodering on pedo by todays standrds
(High School Memories for example, Young Things, etc.), and some other
atrocities.
No they were not like todays vids, but so what. This is not the 50's,
this is not the 60's. We have become and extreme society always wanting
more. And there are people who WANT to do more,., SO be it. If the
mob wishes to perform, let them and I will buy and I will enjoy.
Sayuing that if you like porn or the chicks in it that I am condoning
sexual abuse, or that I'm a woman hater is shortsighted Limbaughspeak.
The fact is THESE ARE CONSENTING ADULTS, DOING ADULT THINGS, PERIOD.
Porn has always been a freak show, one where you would never let anyone
know your real name...right Brandy.? ;) Anyway there has always been
this underculture, and it is no differnt than it has always been,
always, since the Roman and Greek period, even before that, and before
that. Human sexuality has worked its way through these machinations for
eons, and I doubt it will cease and hope it never will. Don't lkike it
, don;t buy it. But please let's stop this hindishgt of a porn life
that never was. Porn was never intimate, even when it tried it was
okie-doke. At best all one can say it is titillating fun as it always
has been.
Now for those who wish to have you be on Rough Sex #3, well that's a
differnt issue altogether...suffice it to say everyone is entitiled to a
fanstasy...you may or may not like it, but like opinions and assholes
they are entitiled to have one.
--
Who's that girl? http://www.twenty-hz.com/slatterns/
LT
>
> I'm not sure if the "system" is increasingly misogynistic. Sure, the
> acts that they portray on screen seem to be more violent and depraved,
> but one could say that about film in general. On the other hand, the
> actual treatment of the women based on their apparent health and
> happiness seems to have improved. At least from what is visible
> onscreen, it appears that the actors mostly enjoy their jobs and are
> in good physical condition. And they seem to be leaving while they
> are still young and not completely ruined. Compare that with some of
> the old, drugged out, skeezy, scummy, toothy scags who inhabited late
> 70's porn. Yes, what they were doing might've looked more romantic,
> but it also sometimes looked as though they required a hit of blow to
> put them in the mood.
What do you base that on?...Sharon Mitchell?. Drug abuse is more
obvious than ever to me. Drugged out, skeezy, scummy, toothy scags of
the late 70's?. Ok, "old" I'll give you :-) I guarantee you they
were in far better shape than the porn starlets of recent
vintage...and despite your feelings about their appearance, in
general, they enjoyed what they were doing far more than the current
performers enjoy what they do. And conditions were far better...err,
with the exception of catering on higher end productions :-)
When you have the likes of "Rough Sex", Max Steiners, Jeff Steward and
Lil' Robbie Zicari...it is far more misogynistic. Sure, there's the
big companies (though VCA and particularly Vivid have pushed hard for
breast implants, so they have their own "misogyny" issues), but the
bottom end has bottomed out.
> Somebody's likely to bring up implants into this discussion, so I'll
> just say upfront that I'm not sure if they really have anything to do
> with (video) pornography. Many or most of the girls seem to get
> implants while they're still dancing or doing print layouts. And,
> let's face it, breast implants are tremendously widespread even
> outside of the adult industry -- even if there were a rule which said,
> "You can't get implants after you've already been filmed without 'em,"
> there'd still be no shortage of them -- women like Donita and Candy
> Cotton were apparently born with huge airbags.
The dancing issue is a total cop-out by the porn vid business. If the
dancing industry is solely responsible for the implant boom, then why
do the video producers/directors keep hiring women with implants?
(even for videos with historical settings)...why do they slap any
fresh tits all over nearly every boxcover?. They are guilty of
promoting them as well. And what about cases where the same agents
stock both the dance circuit and porn vids?
Breast implants may be getting more and more widespread outside the
adult industry, but nevertheless, it's where it started. And while
getting more widespread, it's still abundant in entertainment
industries in general and porn/dancing in particular.
These are industry cop-outs.
There is still pressure and coercion on women to get implants...and
the industry still rewards them greatly for doing so (and punishes
them for not going along).
And Donita actually did a couple of videos before getting her monster
implants.
LT