A great Disney Film, TBC where the hell is it??
SeanPry
I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
years and years and years.....
Pleae E-Mail me if you have any info.
Thanks a bunch
TODD J PIERCE
burried deep in the Disney vaults; that is, they were embarrassed by it,
by how I guess un-disney like it was. (It was PG and, well, none of the
characters never really broke into songs about how neat and swell it was
to live in a darkly enchanted forrest, not even Gurgi.)
Take care,
Todd
Tristan Carolan
(SeanPry) wrote:
Ahh, I've never actually seen this film (which was based on the
excellent Newberry Award winning series by Llyod Alexander (I think that's
who its by)), but it is considered the flop that nearly convinced Eisner
to close out the animation section before Katzenberg came to the rescue. I
wouldn't count on seeing it any time soon (then again, this Disney, which
just re-released Oliver and Company (another not that outstanding film),
so they might bring it out as a Disney Classic at some time in the
future).
Tristan
(mailed/posted)
Terry Thome
> I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
>I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
>someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
>get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
>years and years and years.....
>Pleae E-Mail me if you have any info.
>Thanks a bunch
Good luck. I also love this movie, and it seems that Disney will NEVER
release it. There are known bootlegs around (not many will touch them,
fearing the curse of Walt) of varying quality and Films Inc. has a
16mm print for rental, but you have to give up your first born for it.
Terry
Chad Elwayne Gleason
: In article <seanpry-1604...@seanpry.clark.net>, sea...@clark.net
: (SeanPry) wrote:
:
: > I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
: > I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
: > someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
: > get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
: > years and years and years.....
: >
: > Pleae E-Mail me if you have any info.
: >
: > Thanks a bunch
: Ahh, I've never actually seen this film (which was based on the
: excellent Newberry Award winning series by Llyod Alexander (I think that's
: who its by)), but it is considered the flop that nearly convinced Eisner
: to close out the animation section before Katzenberg came to the rescue. I
: wouldn't count on seeing it any time soon (then again, this Disney, which
: just re-released Oliver and Company (another not that outstanding film),
: so they might bring it out as a Disney Classic at some time in the
: future).
:
: Tristan
:
Oliver and Company was a large financial success for Disney,
The Black Cauldron, in contrast, was not. It was no
disaster, but I don't think Disney made it's money back on it.
So I don't think Oliver & Company is a good choice to use as a
comparison...
:
:
:
:
:
: (mailed/posted)
rwa...@gcn.scri.fsu.edu
> I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
>I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
>someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
>get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
>years and years and years.....
>Pleae E-Mail me if you have any info.
>Thanks a bunch
I have also wanted to see this flick. my wife and I were going to take
the kids to see when it was in the theaters, but we never got around
to it, and it was "Oh well, what the hell, it'll be on video or cable
in six months to a year..."
Ten years later it has never resurfaced. My kids had the little
storybook/cassette tape thing of it, and it looked neat as hell.
Brandon Fisher
>
> I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
> I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
> someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
> get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
> years and years and years.....
>
> Pleae E-Mail me if you have any info.
>
> Thanks a bunch
I never saw it, but have always wanted too. I remember Sierra made a computer
game based on it that I loved. But, Disney seems to have allowed themselves to forget
about that movie. It did not make any money, it was not well received critically, and
it was darker then their other animated movies (rated PG even). I really have no idea
why anything would need to be swept under the rug like this, but for some reason, they
are keeping it from ever seeing the light of day again. I mean, take a walk through the
magic kingdom and you will not see anything reminding you that this movie ever existed -
no merchandise even!
Maybe someday they'll get their act together...
ErikWest
project?
E-mail me if you would like the answer.
Ivar Vikøren
> In article <seanpry-1604...@seanpry.clark.net>, sea...@clark.net
>
> > I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
> > I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
> > someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
> > get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
> > years and years and years.....
> >
> > Pleae E-Mail me if you have any info.
> >
> > Thanks a bunch
>
> excellent Newberry Award winning series by Llyod Alexander (I think that's
> who its by)), but it is considered the flop that nearly convinced Eisner
> to close out the animation section before Katzenberg came to the rescue. I
> wouldn't count on seeing it any time soon (then again, this Disney, which
> just re-released Oliver and Company (another not that outstanding film),
> so they might bring it out as a Disney Classic at some time in the
> future).
The Black Cauldron is regarded to have some of the best and most innovative animation
ever done, but also some very sloppy animation not a Disney movie worthy. It has
also a very tacked on "Hollywood" ending. They were not ready for a "Pocahontas" ending
at that time. Maybe the Disney folks do not like it because it failed, it is not your
regular Disney fare, but not worse than the Dark Crystal.
I would like to see a Disney Archive Collection version, like Tron. Hopefully
including all the stuff Katzenberg cut. Legend has it that Katzenberg locked himself
in the cutting room and chopped out the "worst scenes" like most of the amazing
"cauldron born" sequence. A sequence regarded as something of the best and most
revolutionary (animation wise) Disney has done, besides the "Pink Elephants on Parade"
sequence in "Dumbo".
If anybody knows a good e-mail address to Disney, let us send them a bunch of begs, pleas
and threats, maybe they will release it. I have tried the e-mail on their www, but nobody
responded.
Best regards,
Ivar Vikøren (Self-proclaimed Disneymanic of the worst kind (Third kind??? :-)).
Jim_...@transarc.com
> I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
> I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
> someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
> get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
> years and years and years.....
>
that you'd be very disappointed if you viewed it now. It's really not
very good and is even worse if you read Lloyd Alexander's books.
******************************************************************
Jim Mann jm...@transarc.com
Transarc Corporation
The Gulf Tower, 707 Grant Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15219 (412) 338-4442
WWW Homepage: http://www.transarc.com/~jmann/Home.html
Michael Brooke
: I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
: someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
: get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
: years and years and years.....
From what I know, Disney are sitting on it and have no plans to
release it - it was an expensive box-office and critical disaster for
them, and by all accounts they're not particularly proud of it (in
many ways it came to symbolise the state of the studio before its
recent creative renaissance).
Then again, Disney frequently said that the likes of 'Snow White' and
'Fantasia' would "never" be released on video, and I'm the proud owner
of two perfectly legitimate copies (along with several billion other
people)...
Michael
Daniel Doreika
> I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
>I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
>someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
>get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
>years and years and years.....
>Pleae E-Mail me if you have any info.
>Thanks a bunch
The Black Cauldron was never released on video and according to
Disney, never will be. But you never know, Disney changes their minds
so much you know...
Guy Badger
what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
>get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
>years and years and years.....
>
>Pleae E-Mail me if you have any info.
>
>Thanks a bunch
Whatever *did* happen to The Black Cauldron?
Is it possible to get some kind of response from Disney on why exactly
they don't want to put this film out - yes I know they claim to be
'embarassed' by it but that hasn't stopped them putting out far worse
material.
Any response would be...well, frankly, it would be a miracle.
Guy.
Z7
JT
Chris Klecker
: Was Goofy the main character in the cartoon "Motor Mania?"
: JT
if you win are you going to split your winnings with the person whom
provided you with your winning answer?
--
Grant: You are the wrong person at the wrong| Chris Klecker
place at the wrong time! | klec...@cs.purdue.edu
John: Story of my life. | http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/
Die Hard | kleckecr/home.html
DisneyPors
never release it on. although there are bootlegs floating around...but if
you get one, make sure you get the ltbx'd one (it is a 2.35 film) - Doug
- Doug
"This email message has been modified from it's original format, it has
been modified to fit this screen"
AlenSmithe
film, which is done quite often for any movie, but to do that for an
ANIMATED film is absolutely ridiculous and showed what a moron he was!
Since animation takes a lot of work to produce, they show the rough
schetches and stuff to the Big Cheezes first, then if they have any
objections to it it never gets finished. There was however a few seconds
cut from Snow White because they decided they were too scary, which appear
on the special edition disc.
FHunt699
dry.
Tony Manino
>Was Goofy the main character in the cartoon "Motor Mania?"
Trying to win a Big Mac?
--t
Michael Crawford
revisionist theory...It did all right when it came out. Truth is, no
animation did really well back then.
Michael Brooke (mic...@everyman.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: SeanPry (sea...@clark.net) wrote:
: : I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
: : I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
: : someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
: : get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
: : years and years and years.....
: From what I know, Disney are sitting on it and have no plans to
: release it - it was an expensive box-office and critical disaster for
: them, and by all accounts they're not particularly proud of it (in
: many ways it came to symbolise the state of the studio before its
: recent creative renaissance).
: Then again, Disney frequently said that the likes of 'Snow White' and
: 'Fantasia' would "never" be released on video, and I'm the proud owner
: of two perfectly legitimate copies (along with several billion other
: people)...
: Michael
--
----------------
Michael A. Crawford
craw...@email.unc.edu
kenneth mcalinden
the same amount of money as The Great Mouse Detective did on its original
release (tGMD benefited from a re-release later on).
Michael Crawford (craw...@email.unc.edu) wrote:
: But it wasn't a critical disaster when it came out...that's a bit of
: : Michael
--
**********************************
* Ken McAlinden *
* kmca...@umdsun2.umd.umich.edu *
* Dearborn, MI USA *
**********************************
Melissa
> sea...@clark.net (SeanPry) wrote:
>
> > I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
> >I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
> >someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
> >get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
> >years and years and years.....
>
> >Pleae E-Mail me if you have any info.
>
> >Thanks a bunch
>
> Good luck. I also love this movie, and it seems that Disney will NEVER
> release it. There are known bootlegs around (not many will touch them,
> fearing the curse of Walt) of varying quality and Films Inc. has a
> 16mm print for rental, but you have to give up your first born for it.
>
> Terry
>
the black cauldron was in the theaters about 10 years ago..it will
paobably be re-released agian in the upcoming years as disney is known
for doing..great movie though!!> > >
Walt Moody
>Black Culdren Trivia..who in the Walt Disney Company was in charge of this
>project?
Black Cauldron Super-Deluxe-Dang-I'm-Brilliant Trivia, name the books
and author the movie is taken from. I guess no one will be able to
look at the back of the jacket ;-)
--
Walt Moody
Dixie, GA
wa...@ix.netcom.com
Z7
Klecker) writes:
>
>zone...@ix.netcom.com(Z7) wrote
>: Was Goofy the main character in the cartoon "Motor Mania?"
>
>: JT
>
>
Do you want half my Big Mac?? Thanks to those who responded. All this
for a lousy burger.
JT
Raymond Johnston
I have seen unscrupulous people selling videotapes of The Black Cauldron in
shady areas of New York, but the ad campaign was different and the Title
'Black Cauldron' was in parenthesis under a different title.
According to Corel Movie guide, The Black Cauldron took in $21 million.
AlenSmithe
ever existed?
Michael Brooke
: But it wasn't a critical disaster when it came out...that's a bit of
: revisionist theory...It did all right when it came out. Truth is, no
: animation did really well back then.
I've just looked up a couple of contemporary reviews (British ones,
admittedly), and although they weren't "worst film of all time"
level, they both used the words "major disappointment".
And one of the reasons *why* animation wasn't doing well at the box
office over that period was because the animated films around simply
weren't good enough compared with the late 1980s/early 1990s and
titles like 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit', 'The Little Mermaid' and
'Beauty and the Beast'.
Michael
shred
<mic...@everyman.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: Then again, Disney frequently said that the likes of 'Snow White' and
: 'Fantasia' would "never" be released on video, and I'm the proud owner
: of two perfectly legitimate copies (along with several billion other
: people)...
Yes, but your copy in all likelihood has the nipples and Sambo-like
characters cropped out. Lucas isn't the only one looking to rewrite
history...
- shred
Bill Binkelman
The "chronicles of Prydain" all by Lloyd Alexander are (in both
published order and chronological by the story) as follows:
THE BOOK OF THREE
THE BLACK CAULDRON
THE CASTLE OF LLYR
TARAN WANDERER
THE HIGH KING
I win, don't I???
BTW, lovers of Tolkien and LeGuinn...READ THESE BOOKS! You will NOT
be disappointed.
Bill (the number one Lloyd Alexander fan in the immediate vicinity)
>
Michael Brooke
: In article <960417220...@everyman.demon.co.uk>, Michael Brooke
: <mic...@everyman.demon.co.uk> wrote:
That is of course absolutely true...
Michael
(who would love to see Bob Clampett's 'Coal Black and de Sebben
Dwarfs' or Tex Avery's 'Uncle Tom's Cabana' again, but for some reason
they never seem to turn up on TV...)
Peggy Basilide van Doorneveld
>
> zone...@ix.netcom.com(Z7) writes:
>
> >Was Goofy the main character in the cartoon "Motor Mania?"
>
>
> --t
Goofy was the main character in 'Motor Mania' (1950)
It was kind of an educational movie.
Don't bother to send me half a Big Mac!
I am from Amsterdam and it will be spoiled by the time it arrives.
Peggy.
Yet Another Steve
Klecker) wrote:
> zone...@ix.netcom.com(Z7) wrote
> : Was Goofy the main character in the cartoon "Motor Mania?"
>
> if you win are you going to split your winnings with the person whom
> provided you with your winning answer?
Yeah, he'll send you half a small order of McDonald's limp, greasy fries.
Watch for the envelope with the big grease spots on it!
Steve
Ed Silverfox Lopategui
>Whatever *did* happen to The Black Cauldron?
>
>Is it possible to get some kind of response from Disney on why exactly
>they don't want to put this film out - yes I know they claim to be
>'embarassed' by it but that hasn't stopped them putting out far worse
>material.
>
>Any response would be...well, frankly, it would be a miracle.
>
>Guy.
>
Well I managed to corner one of the animators who was doing a
presentation which was part of the "Hunchback of Notre Dame" display
that has been touring through malls all across the country.
I asked him (nicely, even) when would I ever get a chance to see TBC
again? I mentioned everyone in my family is simply dying to see it (which
they are).
He gave the usual excuses regarding it's disappearance included the
excuses that we've all heard a thousand times that it was "too dark" and
that it was the only Disney animated feature film to carry a PG rating.
Not satisfied, I told him that I would do anything to see it again and
I would like all the possiblities.
He said a theater release will probably be impossible. He added that a
video release was rather unlikely. He did say though that it may be a good
possibility as a special laserdisc release. (He said all this without me
mentioning a word about laserdiscs)
Of course, we can all take this with a grain of salt. He might of just
been trying desperately to get me off his back. But as Spock always
said: "I like to thing that there are always other possibilities."
If any of you see this Hunchback of Notre Dame pass through your local
mall please feel free to corner the animators. If enough of us put a word
in, you never know.... And it won't cost you anything.
-Ed "Silverfox" Lopategui
Vino Rocha
with Babe and it's pretty good. Do I win a Big Mac for
asking a laserdisc-related q?
Michael Brooke
: Are they gonna cover up all evidence of Euro Disney, and then deny that it
: ever existed?
They have already - it's been called Disneyland Paris for the last
eighteen months or so...
Michael
Adam Hendershot
>
> erik...@aol.com (ErikWest) wrote:
>
> >Black Culdren Trivia..who in the Walt Disney Company was in charge of this
> >project?
Wasn't it supposed to be Ron Miller's favorite project? I believe he
got an Executive Producer credit as well.
Adam
Scott Carmody
I believe the re-release title was "Taran and the Magic Cauldron"
Terry Thome
>Black Culdren Trivia..who in the Walt Disney Company was in charge of this
>project?
>E-mail me if you would like the answer.
That'd be Tim Burton, wouldn't it?
Paul Penna
> : In article <960417220...@everyman.demon.co.uk>, Michael Brooke
> : <mic...@everyman.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> : : Then again, Disney frequently said that the likes of 'Snow White' and
> : : 'Fantasia' would "never" be released on video, and I'm the proud owner
> : : of two perfectly legitimate copies (along with several billion other
> : : people)...
>
> : Yes, but your copy in all likelihood has the nipples and Sambo-like
> : characters cropped out. Lucas isn't the only one looking to rewrite
> : history...
I don't believe there were nipples (on the centaurettes) in the first place.
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
: Wasn't The Black Cauldron released under a different name overseas? I think
: I have seen unscrupulous people selling videotapes of The Black Cauldron in
: shady areas of New York, but the ad campaign was different and the Title
: 'Black Cauldron' was in parenthesis under a different title.
: According to Corel Movie guide, The Black Cauldron took in $21 million.
Yeah, it was re-released theatrically as TARAN AND THE ____ _____ (I can't
remember what the rest was). It must have been circa 1989. My memory's
fuzzy on the details but the local film critic identified it as a re-release
of THE BLACK CAULDRON, in new clothes, and the advertising artwork looked
the same as that for BLACK CAULDRON.
--
----------
"Have you never wanted to look beyond the clouds and the stars? Or to know
what causes the trees to bud, and what changes a darkness into light?"
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
San Francisco, California
Internet: jb...@netcom.com
CIS: 71161,736
John V. Skoda
>
>But it wasn't a critical disaster when it came out...that's a bit of
>revisionist theory...It did all right when it came out. Truth is, no
>animation did really well back then.
>
>
>: SeanPry (sea...@clark.net) wrote:
>: : I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
>: : I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
>: : someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
>: : get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
>: : years and years and years.....
>
>
>: release it - it was an expensive box-office and critical disaster for
>: them, and by all accounts they're not particularly proud of it (in
>: many ways it came to symbolise the state of the studio before its
>: recent creative renaissance).
I've never seen "The Black Cauldron" but it seems to me that I remember seeing
something about it on TV a couple of years before its release making a big deal
of all the celebrity voices being used (one of them was Hayley Mills as one of
the main characters).
Then when it was finally released, none of these voices were in the film. Did
they completely redo the vocal tracks at the last minute?
Terry Thome
>Yeah, it was re-released theatrically as TARAN AND THE ____ _____ (I can't
>remember what the rest was). It must have been circa 1989. My memory's
>fuzzy on the details but the local film critic identified it as a re-release
>of THE BLACK CAULDRON, in new clothes, and the advertising artwork looked
>the same as that for BLACK CAULDRON.
But it was only re-released on the West Coast and the Mid-West under
that title. Business for that release was equally dismal.
BTW, I hear the end credits for that film were incredibly long because
Disney was about to go bankrupt (at the time of the original release)
and they wanted to give everyone and their mother credit.
Terry
Terry
Aaron Spence
On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Marc Moris wrote:
>
> From what I read, there is a slight possibility it will be released
> soon - I guess they are running out of titles. One of the reasons why
> it didn't make big box-office was because they pulled it early -
> because it was started under the old regime and ended with the new.
> It deserves a release because it's kind of a milestone in animated
> cinema.
>
> Marc
>
> PS. It was slated for release on VHS eons ago, but the people at Bueno
> Vista stopped that.
It was slated to be released on VHS in the early '90's, but
because of the gigantic success of The Little Mermaid it was pulled.
Hopefully it will be released very soon.
-Aaron
Marc Moris
>SeanPry (sea...@clark.net) wrote:
>: I remember seeing a GREAT Disney movie when I was about six years old.
>: I know it's great because I remember a movie I saw over 10 years ago. Can
>: someone tell me what ever happened to 'The Black Couldren' and where I can
>: get a copy. Please, where is this movie?? I've been waiting for years and
>: years and years and years.....
> From what I know, Disney are sitting on it and have no plans to
>release it - it was an expensive box-office and critical disaster for
>them, and by all accounts they're not particularly proud of it (in
>many ways it came to symbolise the state of the studio before its
>recent creative renaissance).
From what I read, there is a slight possibility it will be released
Ed Faver
read a lot of comments here and in other forums that suggest a mystique
around this film. Be assured, there is none. THE BLACK CAULDRON is just a
bad film. At the time of its release, much was made of the length of time
devoted ot its creation and the natural, fluid movements of the
characters. Not much was made of the eviserated story and throroughly
uncharismatic hero and villian. If it is released on LD, only a sucker
would go for some $100 'Masterpiece' nonsense. This film is bad. No
kidding.
Peggy Basilide van Doorneveld
>
> Raymond Johnston wrote:
> >
> > Wasn't The Black Cauldron released under a different name overseas? I think
> > I have seen unscrupulous people selling videotapes of The Black Cauldron in
> > shady areas of New York, but the ad campaign was different and the Title
> > 'Black Cauldron' was in parenthesis under a different title.
> > According to Corel Movie guide, The Black Cauldron took in $21 million.
>
In the Netherlands (very much overseas...) it wasn't released either.
But the title was 'Taran and the Magic Cauldron'
(actually: 'Taran en de toverketel',
but nobody outside the Netherlands and a small part of Belgium
speaks dutch...).
I have never seen the movie. I've got the comic book, which
is quite good.
kLIP
>soon - I guess they are running out of titles. One of the reasons why
>it didn't make big box-office was because they pulled it early -
>because it was started under the old regime and ended with the new.
>It deserves a release because it's kind of a milestone in animated
>cinema.
Although I liked it myself, it was pulled early because during its
run, it was a boxoffice flop. Compared to other Disney animation,
it was dark and sinister. Folks just didn't like it.
Guy Badger
THE BLACK CAULDRON is just a
>bad film. At the time of its release, much was made of the length of time
>devoted ot its creation and the natural, fluid movements of the
>characters. Not much was made of the eviserated story and throroughly
>uncharismatic hero and villian. If it is released on LD, only a sucker
>would go for some $100 'Masterpiece' nonsense. This film is bad. No
>kidding.
I *am* that sucker. Bring forth my box set!
Guy.
Frank McCormick
: I saw THE BLACK CAULDRON in its mercifully brief original release. I've
: read a lot of comments here and in other forums that suggest a mystique
: bad film. At the time of its release, much was made of the length of time
: devoted ot its creation and the natural, fluid movements of the
: characters. Not much was made of the eviserated story and throroughly
: uncharismatic hero and villian. If it is released on LD, only a sucker
: would go for some $100 'Masterpiece' nonsense. This film is bad. No
: kidding.
I must respectfully disagree... As an animated film it was well done.
Especially for the period in which it was made.
The comment 'eviserated story' makes me wonder: Did you read the books
before you saw the film? There are very few films that are anywhere
as good as the original book. (I try to read the book after I see a
film). There are some necessary plot condensation devices in TBC,
and a definite wimping out with the resurrection of Gurgi, but the
changes from written word to motion picture are actually pretty
decent, especially from a decaying empire! (Compare the film of the
Little Mermaid with the Hans Christian Andersen story -- no happy
ending there!).
My current theory: The Black Cauldron reminds Disney of a very unpleasant
time in the history of the corporation. One which they would rather
forget.
Please, Disney, let us see TBC again. On re-examination, I bet you'll
find neither a masterpiece or a failure. Just a pretty good animated
film from Disney -- and good animation from Disney is nothing to be
ashamed of.
Frank
Yet Another Steve
(Paul Penna) wrote:
There were in the original drawings, but they never made it into the theatrical
release. Even in the braless, satin-clad '30s, when movie star nipples were
OK, cartoon nips without benefit of satin veiling were too heady for Disney.
Steve
Adam Neil Villani
Peggy Basilide van Doorneveld <basi...@euronet.nl> wrote:
>but nobody outside the Netherlands and a small part of Belgium
>speaks dutch...).
I have some Indonesian relatives who speak Dutch... and of course
people speak it in the Netherlands Antilles, but I don't imagine
that's a very big market.
Anyway, I remember seeing The Black Cauldron when it was released and would much rather
see it rereleased than something like Oliver and Co.
--
Adam Villani
ad...@cco.caltech.edu
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~addam
"Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope."
rwa...@gcn.scri.fsu.edu
>shred (sred...@usanetworks.com) wrote:
>: In article <960417220...@everyman.demon.co.uk>, Michael Brooke
>: <mic...@everyman.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>: : Then again, Disney frequently said that the likes of 'Snow White' and
>: : 'Fantasia' would "never" be released on video, and I'm the proud owner
>: : of two perfectly legitimate copies (along with several billion other
>: : people)...
>: Yes, but your copy in all likelihood has the nipples and Sambo-like
>: characters cropped out. Lucas isn't the only one looking to rewrite
>: history...
>That is of course absolutely true...
>Michael
>(who would love to see Bob Clampett's 'Coal Black and de Sebben
>Dwarfs' or Tex Avery's 'Uncle Tom's Cabana' again, but for some reason
>they never seem to turn up on TV...)
Do you remember the one that was a takeoff on Little Red Riding Hood,
only Red wasn't some innocent little girl, she was babe with bodacious
boobs, including erect nipple visible through her dress top, long
shapely legs and a caboose that any train would be proud to have
behind it? The wolf was obviously interested in another type of
"goodies" than the ones she was taking to Grandma, but by the end of
the story the wolf was having to run from her! I saw that one on a
local afternoon cartoon show about 10 years ago. It was great!
Ivar Vikøren
> edf...@aol.com (Ed Faver) wrote:
> THE BLACK CAULDRON is just a
> >bad film. At the time of its release, much was made of the length of time
> >devoted ot its creation and the natural, fluid movements of the
> >characters. Not much was made of the eviserated story and throroughly
> >uncharismatic hero and villian. If it is released on LD, only a sucker
> >would go for some $100 'Masterpiece' nonsense. This film is bad. No
> >kidding.
>
>
> Guy.
>
>
Ivar
Michael Brooke
: Do you remember the one that was a takeoff on Little Red Riding Hood,
: only Red wasn't some innocent little girl, she was babe with bodacious
: boobs, including erect nipple visible through her dress top, long
: shapely legs and a caboose that any train would be proud to have
: behind it? The wolf was obviously interested in another type of
: "goodies" than the ones she was taking to Grandma, but by the end of
: the story the wolf was having to run from her! I saw that one on a
: local afternoon cartoon show about 10 years ago. It was great!
There are several like that - 'Red Hot Riding Hood', 'Swing Shift
Cinderella', 'The Shooting of Dan McGoo', 'Uncle Tom's Cabana' and
'Little Rural Riding Hood' all seem to end up in a bar with the wolf
being driven into orgasmic frenzies by the female lead.
I programmed a two-hour Tex Avery/Chuck Jones/Bob Clampett celebration
last year, and was mildly alarmed to see how many people had brought
their small children along clearly expecting something sweet and
cuddly and getting the likes of 'Red Hot Riding Hood' and 'Coal Black
and de Sebben Dwarfs'. Anyone who thinks that film-making in the 1940s
was totally emasculated by the Production Code should compare a
typical Tex Avery or Bob Clampett cartoon with kiddie fare today...
Michael
Peter Ketting
>much rather see it rereleased than something like Oliver and Co.
I heard Oliver and Co was playing in the Theathres again?
John Cawley
In article <4l62hs$o...@newz.oit.unc.edu>, craw...@email.unc.edu
says...
>>
>>But it wasn't a critical disaster when it came out...that's a bit of
>>revisionist theory...It did all right when it came out. Truth is, no
>>animation did really well back then.
False. The film DID get bashed by critics. The same critics, who a
few years earlier, thought tripe like FOX AND HOUND was "fine
entertainment" and the excellent SECRET OF NIMH "a breath of fresh
air". I was totally surprised by the critical attack, since the film
was well animated. True, the story and characters were not the best,
but they were easily equal to such other minors as FOX AND HOUND, SWORD
IN STONE, etc.
The Reason? The film was particularly dark for current animation.
Most critics found it unfunny and far too intense for children. Oddly,
it is the more "serious" tone to such recent films as BEAUTY AND THE
BEAST and POCAHANTAS that seems to have newer critics praising them.
The film lost a lot of money... largely due to it costing nearly $40
million... almost four times the amount of a usual Disney feature at
the time. The film proved such a critical and financial disappointment
that the studio seems to have 'disowned' it by letting employees bad
mouth it in official Disney books. At least it took ROBIN HOOD out of
the #1 worst movie spot for most folks. (A place it never deserved to
be.)
In <4l9hrl$k...@nw002.infi.net> jsk...@dc.infi.net (John V. Skoda)
writes: >
>I've never seen "The Black Cauldron" but it seems to me that I
>remember seeing something about it on TV a couple of years before its
>release making a big deal of all the celebrity voices being used (one
>of them was Hayley Mills as one of the main characters).
>Then when it was finally released, none of these voices were in the
>film. Did they completely redo the vocal tracks at the last minute?
This film went through so many production changes anything was
possible. Nearly half an hour of completed animation was scrapped
during production, especially a lot with the 'faire folk' (including at
least one song). Back in the late 80s, Disney re-edited the film and
tried to re-market it as THE MAGIC CAUDRON... but test screenings
failed to prove promising. Oddly, one could buy MAGIC CAULDRON
merchandise at Disneyland for a few months.
/\__/\
topfox
aka John Cawley; author of How To Create Animation, Cartoon
Confidential, The Animated Films of Don Bluth, Encyclopedia of Cartoon
Superstars and others
Soo Lee
>False. The film DID get bashed by critics. The same critics, who a
>few years earlier, thought tripe like FOX AND HOUND was "fine
>entertainment" and the excellent SECRET OF NIMH "a breath of fresh
>air". I was totally surprised by the critical attack, since the film
>was well animated. True, the story and characters were not the best,
>but they were easily equal to such other minors as FOX AND HOUND, SWORD
>IN STONE, etc.
>
>The Reason? The film was particularly dark for current animation.
>Most critics found it unfunny and far too intense for children. Oddly,
>it is the more "serious" tone to such recent films as BEAUTY AND THE
>BEAST and POCAHANTAS that seems to have newer critics praising them.
>
>The film lost a lot of money... largely due to it costing nearly $40
>million... almost four times the amount of a usual Disney feature at
>the time. The film proved such a critical and financial disappointment
>that the studio seems to have 'disowned' it by letting employees bad
>mouth it in official Disney books. At least it took ROBIN HOOD out of
>the #1 worst movie spot for most folks. (A place it never deserved to
>be.)
You seem to be the expert around here...how about one theory I've
heard--namely, Black Cauldron came out after the whole sword&sorcery
flicks cycle had ended? Because animation takes so long, by the time
the movie came out, the Conan movies were out of fashion (therefore
the critics/viewers were tired of the whole thing).
--
"Charlie Sheen,
Ben Vereen,
Shrink to size of lima bean!"
GMan478
Aaron Spence
For a while there has been a debate on Disney's The Black
cauldron, and I've noticed that there are many people out there who would
like to see the release of this good Disney movie come around again, I
for one would love to see it. I recently acquired this address for
Disney. For those of you who would like to see the Black Cauldron come to
video, please take a few minutes of your time to write a letter to Disney
begging for them to finally release The Black Cauldron to video. With
the Aristocats coming out yesterday and Oliver and Company arriving to
video in September, The Black Cauldron remains the last Disney movie to
never have been released to video. The address is:
The Walt Disney Company
Attn: Marketing
Buena Vista Home Video
500 Buena Vista St.
Burbank, CA 91521
Let's hope that if enough requests are sent, Disney will finally
release this movie. Thanks!
-Aaron
Rob Ray
>You seem to be the expert around here...how about one theory I've
>heard--namely, Black Cauldron came out after the whole sword&sorcery
>flicks cycle had ended? Because animation takes so long, by the time
>the movie came out, the Conan movies were out of fashion (therefore
>the critics/viewers were tired of the whole thing).
>
You've probably hit on something here. I was in high school (and college,
too) when this was in production, and publicity for it spanned several years.
In animation circles, it was arguably the most eagerly awaited motion picture
ever, and was talked about all throughout its many years of production. It was
hyped as unlike anything you had ever seen before and rumors abounded
about what it would entail.
The problem was, *no* film could live up to literally years of this kind of
hype and The Black Cauldron certainly didn't. The sorcery craze had come
and gone, and more importantly, the film was not near as dark and
revolutionary as its advanced word had indicated.
Now, bear in mind, I haven't seen the film since its first release, but I
recall thinking that Disney did not know what of movie it was, and mixed
a dark, sword & sorcery adventure with a furry feel-good Disney kiddie
pic, and it just didn't work.
And, most importantly, the Disney regime that released it was not the same
regime that started the project, and they really did not know what to do
with it.
Some films, like Casablanca, come together and benefit from amazingly
good luck and timing for maximum market response. Other films are cursed
with the exact opposite result, and TBC is sadly the latter.
My .02
Rob Ray
Peter Ketting
>only Red wasn't some innocent little girl, she was babe with bodacious
>boobs, including erect nipple visible through her dress top, long
>shapely legs and a caboose that any train would be proud to have
>behind it? The wolf was obviously interested in another type of
>"goodies" than the ones she was taking to Grandma, but by the end of
>the story the wolf was having to run from her! I saw that one on a
>local afternoon cartoon show about 10 years ago. It was great!
I think the original title of that cartoon is 'Red Hot Riding Hood'.
Duggerman
Vino Rocha wrote:
>
> When do we see Runaway Brain on laserdisc? I saw this
> with Babe and it's pretty good. Do I win a Big Mac for
> asking a laserdisc-related q?
Babe?????????
This short was only released with "Kid in King Arthur's Court".
Duggerman
JoshyR
I agree that for an animated tale, this film was dark, dark, dark, but the animation is
quite stunning. Part of the problem may be the British accents of all the characters,
making it difficult for young American kids to identify with. Plus there were only two
cute animal characters and not much effort was put into the animation or development of
either the dog or the pig. It mustve been something to listen to this thing in a
theater with a properly equipped sound system, though...
Bruce Seiler
In article <4lojt7$7...@news01.deltanet.com>, rr...@spacecraft.com (Rob Ray) writes:
|> The problem was, *no* film could live up to literally years of this kind of
|> hype and The Black Cauldron certainly didn't. The sorcery craze had come
|> and gone, and more importantly, the film was not near as dark and
|> revolutionary as its advanced word had indicated.
My problem with the movie was that it didn't live up to the book. I know Disney
has to change things around, but this was silly. The movie's characters were
all generic types while part of the book's fun was the quirky charm of its
characters. For example, the bard in the movie was a stock character. In the
book, he was a king who was bored of ruling and a fighter who's sword may not
be worth ten but at least seven.
Bruce Seiler
sei...@compass-da.com
fwc
Peggy Basilide van Doorneveld wrote:
>
> Scott Carmody wrote:
> >
> > Raymond Johnston wrote:
> > >
> > > Wasn't The Black Cauldron released under a different name overseas? I think
> > > I have seen unscrupulous people selling videotapes of The Black Cauldron in
> > > shady areas of New York, but the ad campaign was different and the Title
> > > 'Black Cauldron' was in parenthesis under a different title.
> > > According to Corel Movie guide, The Black Cauldron took in $21 million.
> >
> > I believe the re-release title was "Taran and the Magic Cauldron"
>
> In the Netherlands (very much overseas...) it wasn't released either.
> But the title was 'Taran and the Magic Cauldron'
> (actually: 'Taran en de toverketel',
> speaks dutch...).
>
> is quite good.
Yes, in the Netherlands TBC is called "Taran en de Toverketel". But at
the release of The Black Cauldron (I believe it was in 1986), there was a
lot of merchandising avaiable. For example the Disney magazine "Donald
Duck" had al free gifts, little books for example. And the film has been
re-released too, I think it was in 1989. Disney Video's in the
Netherlands now sais The Black Cauldron is something like the black
sheep, and so is The Fox and the Hound (Dutch title: "Frank & Frey"). I
always thougt Sleeping Beauty was the black sheep, because it got a lot
of critism at its release, but now I know they're actually proude with
it.
If you haven't seen The Black Caldron: I think it's noting compared to
Sleeping Beauty (that movie is realy brilliant), but I've seen a place in
The Magic Kingdom (Fantasyland) in Walt Disney World with the little dog
(I only know his Dutch name: Gorgie), so maybe there's still some hope
for you...
F G Weissglas
Soo Lee
Hey, you can rent that. I think it's called cartoons for adults or
something like that (it had picture of Leonard Maltin on the cover).
I saw it, and it's great. The wolf isn't in the forest...he's at
Hollywood and Vine, and goes to speakeasy called Grandma's.
B.P.McCREA
Aaron Spence <asp...@anselm.edu> wrote:
> -Aaron
Black Caoldron is far from the last disney film not to be released.
One that comes to mind is song of the south . thank goodness for
collectors or this film might never be seen again.
BOB
Adam Neil Villani
In article <4lhjal$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Ed Faver <edf...@aol.com> wrote:
>characters. Not much was made of the eviserated story and throroughly
>uncharismatic hero and villian. If it is released on LD, only a sucker
>would go for some $100 'Masterpiece' nonsense. This film is bad. No
>kidding.
Well, maybe you think so, but I thought "The Lion King" was the worst
piece of tripe Disney ever animated. That movie was wretched. But it
made more than 300 million dollars.
Ala'a H. Jawad
Soo Lee wrote:
> Hey, you can rent that. I think it's called cartoons for adults or
> something like that (it had picture of Leonard Maltin on the cover).
> I saw it, and it's great. The wolf isn't in the forest...he's at
> Hollywood and Vine, and goes to speakeasy called Grandma's.
>
I think you guys are talking about a couple of MGM cartoons (from
the 50s ?). I remember some of them incorporated Droopy the Dog -
there was also a Cinderela spoof, maybe others that I don't
remember. Very funny stuff from the era when cartoons were not
created by toy companies :-)
Best regards,
-A l a ' a
Ned Snell
In article <4ltkpl$j...@NNTP.MsState.Edu>, sm...@Ra.MsState.Edu says...
>
>Okay. Being a self-confessed Disney freak (although I abhore their LD
>policy) and an asdvocate of we-want-The-Black-Cauldron-now, I'm
>de-lurking.
>
>Disney is kinda schitzophrenic when it comes to TBC. In the animated
show
>at MGM studios in Walt Disney World, they have a pre-show and a closing
>show. In the closing show there are several scenes from TBC. Hen Wen
>running away from some monster, and the Horned King being maniacal. I
was
>surprised to see that much. Everytime I go there I mention to someone
that
>TBC is at least a decent film and should be released on video. Most of
the
>people the work for Disney that I have talked to either A) Have never
seen
>it, but want to or B) Agree with me.
>
>I see no reason why Disney is not releasing this to video or LD. If it
>says Disney on the video tape, parents will buy it. As for the PG
rating,
>Hunchback was pretty close to getting one, and Disney isn't pulling it.
I
>also agree with the people posting earlier on in this thread. THere are
>MUCH worse films out there. Disney showed they weren't apposed to
>re-releasing a 'box office flop.' Oliver & Co. is in theatres now, with
an
>army of plushes at the Disney Stores to support it. I personally think
>some of the 'classic' Disney films are worse than TBC. Pinochio comes
to
>mind, and Snow White (although the first full length animated film)
tends
>to wear on my nerves. I love having the LD version of Fantasia so I can
>skip over the waving line (soundtrack) and the orchestra parts.
>
>As someone mentioned earlier, there was a place in Fantasyland called
>'Grugi's Muchings and Crunchings', but with the success of the later
>Disney films, it has been re-named 'Lumiere's Kitchen' and is adjactent
to
>'Mrs. Pott's Cupboard.'
>
>There is hope. The rate Disney is putting out videos and LDs so far
this
>year (Poca, Winnie the Pooh, Aristocats so far and Toy Story and MAYBE
one
>more later this year), they'll run out of titles soon enough. :)
>
Everything you say rings true to me, except.... It's hard to imagine
anyone calling Pinnochio "worse" than TBC, or in fact any animated movie
ever made. Most critics and animation historians rank Pinnochio as the
best thing Disney ever produced.
Steven M. Warmath
Dan James Fienberg
B.P.McCREA (bpm...@nb.net) wrote:
: Black Caoldron is far from the last disney film not to be released.
: One that comes to mind is song of the south . thank goodness for
: collectors or this film might never be seen again.
: BOB
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Song of the South rereleased
seven or eight years ago? I have memories of seeing it in the theaters,
but I could just be insane.
-Daniel
Merch
In article <4lrqid$b...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, ad...@cco.caltech.edu (Adam
Neil Villani) wrote:
> In article <4lhjal$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
> Ed Faver <edf...@aol.com> wrote:
> >characters. Not much was made of the eviserated story and throroughly
> >uncharismatic hero and villian. If it is released on LD, only a sucker
> >would go for some $100 'Masterpiece' nonsense. This film is bad. No
> >kidding.
>
> Well, maybe you think so, but I thought "The Lion King" was the worst
> piece of tripe Disney ever animated. That movie was wretched. But it
> made more than 300 million dollars.
>
Funny you say that, because TLK is one of the only Disney movies I find I
can watch again and again.
merch
TEB1013
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Song of the South rereleased
> >seven or eight years ago? I have memories of seeing it in the
> theaters, >but I could just be insane. > -Daniel
>
> during the mid or late '80s.
I saw it in my local theater at about the same time, which is why the
decision not to release Song on video is so annoying.
M8bgiants
Re: Song of the South
It's especially silly that Disney won't release Song of the South on video
when one of the major attractions at their theme parks (Splash Mountain)
is based on it...
I'd much rather see the Black Cauldron released, however....
Steven M. Warmath
Ned Snell (nsn...@carroll.com) wrote:
: Everything you say rings true to me, except.... It's hard to imagine
: anyone calling Pinnochio "worse" than TBC, or in fact any animated movie
: ever made. Most critics and animation historians rank Pinnochio as the
: best thing Disney ever produced.
I find that I am often at odds with the critic. As an animation movie, I
agree. The story is what I don't like. Plus, none of the characters reach
out and grab me (or even interest me), therfore it is difficult for me to
stay with the movie. Same thing with Snow White. I agree that it is a
masterpiece of animation, but the characters are just lacking for me. Of
course, I'm not in Disney's target audience. :)
--
***********************************************************
* Steve Warmath sm...@ra.msstate.edu *
* FDC / FDC MUCK Sebastian fiance to FDC / FDC MUCK *
* Piglet *
* "Yeah, we're in luck here down in the MUCK here unda da*
* sea!" *
***********************************************************
Janice
d...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Dan James Fienberg) wrote:
>B.P.McCREA (bpm...@nb.net) wrote:
>: Black Caoldron is far from the last disney film not to be released.
>: One that comes to mind is song of the south . thank goodness for
>: collectors or this film might never be seen again.
>: BOB
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Song of the South rereleased
>seven or eight years ago? I have memories of seeing it in the theaters,
>but I could just be insane.
> -Daniel
You aren't insane. I saw Song of the South in a drive-in sometime
during the mid or late '80s.
Janice
Proofread carefully to make sure
you haven't any words out.
Jaliya Jayawardena
>Soo Lee wrote:
>
>> Hey, you can rent that. I think it's called cartoons for adults or
>> something like that (it had picture of Leonard Maltin on the cover).
>> I saw it, and it's great. The wolf isn't in the forest...he's at
>> Hollywood and Vine, and goes to speakeasy called Grandma's.
Those cartoons were classics. One was "Swing Shift Cinderella"
with the superbly funny ending, the wolf's amazing antics (remember
his eyes popping right out of his head?) and the fairy godmother going
gaga over the wolf!
And there was a Little Red Riding Hood (again with the wolf
and the babe) which also had granny in it but I'll be damned if I
remember. Gotta go back home and get the Rolf Harris' Cartoon Time
tapes (which featured a lot of these Tex Avery(?) cartoons)
Jaliya
fwc
> anyone calling Pinnochio "worse" than TBC, or in fact any animated movie
> ever made. Most critics and animation historians rank Pinnochio as the
> best thing Disney ever produced.
>
I just wanted to say to me Sleeping Beauty is the best thing Disney produced. If you
compare SB with TBC, SB is so much better in story, characters, backgrounds and music, and
it is made almost 30 years earlier than TBC.
But it's also a matter of the promotion and merchandising. For example: Sleeping Beauty
was released in the Netherlands to theatres October 12 while everybody was talking about
Pocahontas, to come out November 22. And Sleeping Beauty became a disaster. But now, at
its video release the made big promotion, and it's a succes now.
F G WEISSGLAS
Kirsty Foy
In article <3182b969...@news.brandeis.edu> jal...@cs.brandeis.edu
>
> And there was a Little Red Riding Hood (again with the wolf
> and the babe) which also had granny in it but I'll be damned if I
> remember. Gotta go back home and get the Rolf Harris' Cartoon Time
> tapes (which featured a lot of these Tex Avery(?) cartoons)
>
--
Kirsty Foy
<http://philos.resnet.ubc.ca/~kfoy/>
chelsea
Steven M. Warmath
B.P.McCREA (bpm...@nb.net) wrote:
: Black Caoldron is far from the last disney film not to be released.
: One that comes to mind is song of the south . thank goodness for
: collectors or this film might never be seen again.
Actually, Black Cauldron IS the last Disney ANIMATED film to be released.
SotS does not qualify as an animated in Disney's eyes. It is not listed on
there this-is-number-such-and-such list of animated films. I agree that it
SHOULD be released in the US. I could have saved about $40. :) I know the
racism issue has been rehashed here and in the Disney newsgroups countless
times, but I see no reason to with hold the release of this film due to
political correctness. It is no more racist than Gone With the Wind.
MDK
Speaking of racism in Disney movies, is there an uncut version of Fantasia
available on LD? Also, does anybody know which scenes were cropped?
marc
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
In article <dkb589-2804...@acorn186030.nuts.nwu.edu>,
dkb...@nwu.edu (MDK) wrote:
: Speaking of racism in Disney movies, is there an uncut version of Fantasia
: available on LD?
No. Curse Disney for doing this.
Also, does anybody know which scenes were cropped?
:
Yes, the scene in which the pickaninny centaurette is grooming one of the
European centaurettes is cropped. I donıt know the frame number off top,
but if you have the LD youıll notice the scene. It stands out pretty
badly; the image goes all grainy for a few seconds, and the centaurette is
looking down, smiling in approval at... the bottom edge of the frame.
--
Jeremy Bond SHEPHERD | I never take any notice of what common people
San Francisco, CA | say, and I never interfere with what charming
Internet: jb...@netcom.com | people do. If a personality fascinates me,
CIS: 71161,736 | whatever mode of expression that personality
| selects is absolutely delightful to me.
| -Oscar Wilde, THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY
David Uy
JoshyR (jros...@asimov.oit.umass.edu) wrote:
: I agree that for an animated tale, this film was dark, dark, dark, but
: the animation is quite stunning.
The film was composed for SuperTechnirama 70 making it only one of two feature
animated films composed for 70mm release. The pirated P&S editions of this
film are very cramped in space which tend to indicate that the full width of
the 70mm frame was intended to be used by the animators. The film also made
use of something called a Moving Background. Based on some of the production
cel set-ups that I have seen from this film, this seems to be related to the
animation of actual background elements. The first time this technique
had been applied to animation.
It is somewhat unfortunate that many of the efforts to release wide-screen
animated feature films had been unsuccessful.
: Plus there were only two cute animal characters and not much effort was
: put into the animation or development of either the dog or the pig.
If it's Gurgi you're referring to, he wasn't a dog but a pungent furry
creature.
Disney also added the character called Creeper (who didn't appear in the
original books). He did add comic relief to the otherwise dark character
of the Horned King.
--
David Uy <d...@unity.ncsu.edu> <http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/d/duy/public/>
David Uy
Steven M. Warmath (sm...@Ra.MsState.Edu) wrote:
: Disney is kinda schitzophrenic when it comes to TBC. In the animated show
: show. In the closing show there are several scenes from TBC. Hen Wen
: running away from some monster, and the Horned King being maniacal. I was
: surprised to see that much. Everytime I go there I mention to someone that
: TBC is at least a decent film and should be released on video. Most of the
: people the work for Disney that I have talked to either A) Have never seen
: it, but want to or B) Agree with me.
The Disney Days calendar continues to show scenes from TBC. Last year it
had more than its fair share of the calendar.
Disney Art Editions discontinued releasing production cels from the film about
two years ago.
On a visit to the MGM Studios at WDW, I went through the Animation Tour and
was surprised to see an artist working on a sequence with what looked like
Taran. I asked the cast member there if it was in fact Taran from The Black
Cauldron, and she said that sometimes, people will work on already completed
sequences for practice, that it was Taran the artist was working on, but it
was not for a second Black Cauldron film or anything like that.
I hope Eurodisney continues ... :)
Richard L. Trethewey
Having never seen the film, I can't comment on its quality
directly, but it seems clear that the film is at best a 2nd tier
product. Every time I've heard a Disney exec. talk about it,
they say there's virtually no chance the Company would finance
either a theatrical or home video release. Every time.
That being the case, I was thinking that instead of trying to
influence BVHV that those of you who are anxious to see it again
start writing to the folks at the Disney Channel. It can't do
much worse than the ratings for films like "The Ugly Dachshund"
which I saw this afternoon - briefly. Just a thought.
Richard L. Trethewey
Rainbo Animation Art
800-647-5085 or 415-359-0221 from 9AM to 9PM Pacific time
rai...@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/users/rainbo
Eric Carter
d...@unity.ncsu.edu (David Uy) wrote:
>JoshyR (jros...@asimov.oit.umass.edu) wrote:
>: I agree that for an animated tale, this film was dark, dark, dark, but
>: the animation is quite stunning.
>The film was composed for SuperTechnirama 70 making it only one of two feature
>animated films composed for 70mm release. The pirated P&S editions of this
>film are very cramped in space which tend to indicate that the full width of
>the 70mm frame was intended to be used by the animators. The film also made
>use of something called a Moving Background. Based on some of the production
>cel set-ups that I have seen from this film, this seems to be related to the
>animation of actual background elements. The first time this technique
>had been applied to animation.
..snip...
I saw THE BLACK CAULDRON in 70mm at Radio City Music Hall. It's a
beautifully produced film, but it's just not very good. It's a
"so-what" kind of picture. Left me cold.
-Eric
BailOrgana
Actually, all this stuff about the critics panning the movie is not
completely true. In Roger Ebert's review of the film he actually praised
it and gave her 4 stars if I remember correctly. It says so right on my
good ole Cinemania cd rom.
BailO...@AOL.com
ajd...@students.wisc.edu
Some only see
What they want to see
Claiming victory
Oh, but that's not me...
Stop lookin' out
Start lookin' in
Be your own best friend
Stand up and say
Hey! This is mine
Mine All Mine...
Sammy Hagar (1988)
Peter Thomas Chattaway
John Cawley (top...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: The Reason? The film was particularly dark for current animation.
: Most critics found it unfunny and far too intense for children. Oddly,
: it is the more "serious" tone to such recent films as BEAUTY AND THE
: BEAST and POCAHANTAS that seems to have newer critics praising them.
They *have* a serious tone? I didn't find `The Black Cauldron'
particularly "darker" than, say, the conclusion to `Sleeping Beauty' --
scary, yeah, but in a fairly typical Disneyesque way (even if it *is*
their only PG-rated cartoon).
Peter Thomas Chattaway
JoshyR (jros...@asimov.oit.umass.edu) wrote:
: Plus there were only two cute animal characters and not much effort was
: put into the animation or development of either the dog or the pig.
Gurgi was not a dog. Can't remember what he was, but he was not a dog.
In the book he's tall and thin, and Disney overdid their "development" as
it was by making him such a plush doll.
Jaliya Jayawardena
>Having never seen the film, I can't comment on its quality
>directly, but it seems clear that the film is at best a 2nd tier
>product. Every time I've heard a Disney exec. talk about it,
>they say there's virtually no chance the Company would finance
>either a theatrical or home video release. Every time.
>
>That being the case, I was thinking that instead of trying to
>influence BVHV that those of you who are anxious to see it again
>start writing to the folks at the Disney Channel. It can't do
>much worse than the ratings for films like "The Ugly Dachshund"
>which I saw this afternoon - briefly. Just a thought.
"This film has been edited to fit the time involved..."
chelsea
jan...@anv.net (Janice) wrote:
>d...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Dan James Fienberg) wrote:
>>B.P.McCREA (bpm...@nb.net) wrote:
>>: Black Caoldron is far from the last disney film not to be released.
>>: One that comes to mind is song of the south . thank goodness for
>>: collectors or this film might never be seen again.
>>: BOB
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Song of the South rereleased
>>seven or eight years ago? I have memories of seeing it in the theaters,
>>but I could just be insane.
>> -Daniel
>You aren't insane. I saw Song of the South in a drive-in sometime
>during the mid or late '80s.
>Janice
>Proofread carefully to make sure
>you haven't any words out.
Song of the south is out on video here in England
Dwight Bonney
Adam Neil Villani wrote:
>
> In article <4lhjal$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
> Ed Faver <edf...@aol.com> wrote:
> >characters. Not much was made of the eviserated story and throroughly
> >uncharismatic hero and villian. If it is released on LD, only a sucker
> >would go for some $100 'Masterpiece' nonsense. This film is bad. No
> >kidding.
>
> Well, maybe you think so, but I thought "The Lion King" was the worst
> piece of tripe Disney ever animated. That movie was wretched. But it
> made more than 300 million dollars.
>
> Adam Villani
> ad...@cco.caltech.edu
> http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~addam
> "Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope. Swope."
Actually, I didnt really like Lion King either. But I thought Pocohuntas
(or whoever) was the worst waste of time I ever spent. It was full of
absolute garbage and crap. I don't know how much it made, but it really
did suck!
Cya
Dwight.
Steven M. Warmath
Peter Thomas Chattaway (pet...@unixg.ubc.ca) wrote:
And I am still looking for a plush Gurgi to this day. :)
Bill Binkelman
sei...@compass-da.com (Bruce Seiler) wrote:
>In article <4lojt7$7...@news01.deltanet.com>, rr...@spacecraft.com (Rob Ray) writes:
>|> The problem was, *no* film could live up to literally years of this kind of
>|> hype and The Black Cauldron certainly didn't. The sorcery craze had come
>|> and gone, and more importantly, the film was not near as dark and
>|> revolutionary as its advanced word had indicated.
>
>My problem with the movie was that it didn't live up to the book. I know Disney
>has to change things around, but this was silly. The movie's characters were
>all generic types while part of the book's fun was the quirky charm of its
>characters. For example, the bard in the movie was a stock character. In the
>book, he was a king who was bored of ruling and a fighter who's sword may not
>be worth ten but at least seven.
>
>Bruce Seiler
>sei...@compass-da.com
This is what I had heard and it is precisely why I dragged my feet to
see it and wound up missing it. I LOVED all Lloyd Alexander's books set
in this "universe" and did not want to be disappointed. For all you
people who have said that the film was "dark" I'd like to know if you
read the book(s). Because critics here in Mpls who had done both said
just the opposite, i.e. that the studio had "disney-ized" (as in
sanitized) the story. I am confused (so what else is new???) about this
discrepancy that some people here say it was dark. Regardless, I agree
with Bruce. The characters in the books were very inventive and quirky.
F'r instance Gurgi is really cool in the book and I heard in the movie
he was incredibly "cute" and goony. Man, in the book, Gurgi rocks!
And Fflewdur Flamm may be a little comic relief (he and Doli) but you
don't want him on your ass in a fight! Read the last in the series to
see what I mean!
Anyway, someone who has read AND seen TBC, let me know your thoughts,
either here or at bink...@maroon.tc.umn.edu.
Thanks...I'm much better now!
Bill (who loved Eilonwy!)
fwc
Steven M. Warmath wrote:
>
> B.P.McCREA (bpm...@nb.net) wrote:
>
> : Black Caoldron is far from the last disney film not to be released.
> : One that comes to mind is song of the south . thank goodness for
> : collectors or this film might never be seen again.
>
> SotS does not qualify as an animated in Disney's eyes. It is not listed on
> there this-is-number-such-and-such list of animated films. I agree that it
> SHOULD be released in the US. I could have saved about $40. :) I know the
> racism issue has been rehashed here and in the Disney newsgroups countless
> times, but I see no reason to with hold the release of this film due to
> political correctness. It is no more racist than Gone With the Wind.
>
> ***********************************************************
> * Steve Warmath sm...@ra.msstate.edu *
> * FDC / FDC MUCK Sebastian fiance to FDC / FDC MUCK *
> * Piglet *
> * "Yeah, we're in luck here down in the MUCK here unda da*
> * sea!" *
> ***********************************************************
>
>
Oh, it is a number in the animated list, just like Bedknobs and
broomsticks. I know, beacause Song of the South has been released in the
UK as part of the Walt Disney Classics Collection.
Dwight Bonney
Howdy,
Well, I still remember going to the movies to see The Black Cauldron. I
had just finished the books that morning. And yes, the movie was
different, but we all know that is the way things are.
I thought the movie was GREAT! I thought Gurgi was unreal, and the
whole movie a success. Who says its not all that good? Im looking
forward to being able to buy it on Video. So come on Disney! Get off
yer #@%! and release TBC!!!
Cya
Dwight.
Michael Brooke
B.P.McCREA (bpm...@nb.net) wrote:
: Black Caoldron is far from the last disney film not to be released.
: One that comes to mind is song of the south . thank goodness for
: collectors or this film might never be seen again.
I don't think collectors have much to do with next Monday's UK
screening of 'Song of the South' on BBC1 at 1.55pm - but then again,
some films that are totally unavailable in some countries are all too
easy to get hold of elsewhere ('A Clockwork Orange' springs to mind!)
Michael
Jonathan Gleich
After digging thru my house (as well as Digging lint out of my
pockets) Its time for Jon's LETS BE GREEDY DISNEY AUCTION!!!
The following are available for BID -- Bid ends 5/15 At Midnight
I will post Updates on Mondays and Thursdays (or email you with update)
IF The Bid Price I am Expecting does not Happen, I can Abort the Sale!!!
If you do Not want people to know who you are. Ask to NOT be put
on the public Bid List -- This is Very Important. - Once Bids
are won - I will send the Movies out UPS COD CASH (two day)
Ok.. Now to the Movies -- No Minumum bid Required:
The Best Of Roger Rabbit - Sealed
The Little Mermaid - Very Good Condition
Bambi - Very Good Condition
Angel Heart - (Discovision) Excellent Condition
Paul Simon In Concert (CAV) Pioneer
Joni Mitchell in Concert (Shadows and Light) (CAV)
BETAMAX TAPES -- FIRST GENERATION
Cinderella
Sleeping Beauty
\\__o<
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Want to see how my sick mind works, check out my homepage.
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