Original ending to "Last Castle"? (SPOILERS)
TaTaToothy
The obviously post-edited ending of "The Last Castle" (flag raised,
right-side-up, NO establishing or wide shots) has me wondering...
I assume the original ending had Irwin raising the upside-down flag as
he had planned; I believe they even used this image in the original
marketing of the film, which was re-thought post 9/11.
So, what is the point here... simple flag-waving for patriotism's
sake, nevermind the script? Was the upside-down flag considered too
controversial? The overall themes of the movie are far from
unpatriotic, so I can't imagine why they thought this image would be
received poorly. Anyone else think this is a PC over-reaction?
David Nusair
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> The obviously post-edited ending of "The Last Castle" (flag raised,
> right-side-up, NO establishing or wide shots) has me wondering...
Actually, it seemed quite obvious to me that this _was_ the intended
ending.
He proved his point about Gandolfini in a big way by doing this.
--
Dave http://www.reelfilm.com
"Damn you people. Go back to your shanties."
Andrew Johnston
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>> The obviously post-edited ending of "The Last Castle" (flag raised,
>> right-side-up, NO establishing or wide shots) has me wondering...
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> Actually, it seemed quite obvious to me that this _was_ the intended
> ending.
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> He proved his point about Gandolfini in a big way by doing this.
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The upside-down flag poster was just a teaser poster that was scheduled to
be phased out for the final one-sheet, and the timing of the transition in
the ad campaign created the false impression that the change had to do with
9/11 hysteria. I'm amazed that people think the poster for a movie starring
Redford and Gandolfini wouldn't feature their faces...
Derek Janssen
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> he had planned; I believe they even used this image in the original
> marketing of the film, which was re-thought post 9/11.
upside-down signifies an SOS call?
...Or did the director not know that, and think he was being artistic?
Derek Janssen (learned that in the Cub Scouts in third grade)
dja...@ultranet.com
Norman Wilner
news:3BD2DAE5...@ultranet.com...
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>> I assume the original ending had Irwin raising the upside-
>> down flag as he had planned; I believe they even used this
>> image in the original marketing of the film, which was re-
>> thought post 9/11.
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> Is it supposed to have something to do with the fact
> that a flag raised upside-down signifies an SOS call?
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> ...Or did the director not know that, and think he was
> being artistic?
No, it's a crucial element of the film.
Norm Wilner
MetroToday / Starweek Magazine
http://www.zap2it.com/movies/videodvd
John Harkness
<dja...@ultranet.com> wrote:
>TaTaToothy wrote:
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>> I assume the original ending had Irwin raising the upside-down flag as
>> he had planned; I believe they even used this image in the original
>> marketing of the film, which was re-thought post 9/11.
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>Is it supposed to have something to do with the fact that a flag raised
>upside-down signifies an SOS call?
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>...Or did the director not know that, and think he was being artistic?
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>Derek Janssen
Its referred to specifically in the dialogue earlier in the film, so
one assumes that, at the very least, the screenwriters knew about it
John Harkness
TaTaToothy
<xnwi...@xhome.xcom> wrote:
>"Derek Janssen" <dja...@ultranet.com> wrote in message
>news:3BD2DAE5...@ultranet.com...
>> TaTaToothy wrote:
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>> ...Or did the director not know that, and think he was
>> being artistic?
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>No, it's a crucial element of the film.
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My point exactly. The goal of raising the upside-down flag above "The
Castle" is stated more than once. So, when it doesn't happen, is it :
a) Irwin making a point about Col. Winter (what it is, I'm not sure)
b) flag-waving, post-edited patriotism
I vote b), since the only shots of the raised flag are tight, and it
feels patched-in. Also, wouldn't Irwin have made his point better
with the upside-down flag?
Norman Wilner
news:ubk6tt40o9c55fk53...@4ax.com...
No, I don't think so. Irwin's portrayed as too much of a straight arrow to
ever "desecrate" the flag by flying it upside down; he just made sure Winter
thought that's what he was planning in order ensure his overreaction, and
thus demonstrate that Winter was unfit for command. (Remember, he'd already
successfully bluffed Winter once, with the fake hostage threat; this was
just a repeat of a proven strategy.)
The final shots in that sequence are shot the way they are to make the
orientation of the flag a surprise to the audience; you'll notice Lurie
shows the characters looking up at it for the longest time, but hiding it
from the audience, in order to build suspense. I thought that was one of the
movie's weakest conceits, actually, since the fact that Lurie didn't show us
the flag had to mean it couldn't have been raised in the manner we'd been
led to expect.
Melquiades
No, I think it was clearly deliberate. And as Norm said, the editing is
designed to surprise the audience when the flag is revealed to be flown right
side up.
Flying it upside down is a sign of distress -- it was the plan if they were
still in the process of taking over the prison, to alert Delroy Lindo's
character of the situation.
At the end of the film, Redford and his men had actually won. Gandolfini's
men had deserted him, he was no longer in command. So Irwin was raising the
flag right side up, claiming the castle.
TetsuwanATOM
Norman Wilner
news:HleB7.111117$Pr1.28...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
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> I'll just confirm that it was intentional. I worked on this movie.
Thanks. And as long as you're here, is Mark Ruffalo as well-adjusted as he
appears to be?
TetsuwanATOM
"Norman Wilner" <xnwi...@xhome.xcom> wrote in message
news:26fB7.64659$YL3.17...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
he is very collegial, down to earth, funny, and committed to being a great
actor. Very hard on himself, though.