Gosford Park (gigantic spoilers)
Robert Chao
Thanks if you can enlighten me.
(I liked the movie even though I didn't get that.)
RC
John Harkness
wrote:
big friggin' spoiler space
>
The valet played by the guy from croupier (Clive Owen) who was his
illegitimate son by Helen Mirren.
John Harkness
Mike and Dorcie
I thought that he, in fact, did not kill him. He stabbed the guy, but
the guy was already dead by that time. I thought that his mother
actually killed him.
Dorcie
Hank
...and my take on it was that they were certainly two likely suspects, it
wasn't established that they actually did it. The audience was set up to
think that Mary would be the Agatha Christie-type protagonist, but what she
solved was the mystery of their relation to the deceased, and not the murder
itself.
Mike and Dorcie
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I was going to mention in my last post that the writers and director seemed to
leave it up to the audience at the end. Besides the Hellen Mirren character,
the movie also seemed to point fingers at the head butler and the maid that said
she would do anything for him. However, Clive Owen did stab him, and it was
established that he was already dead when he had been stabbed.
Dorcie
SJRaff
> I thought that he, in fact, did not kill him. He stabbed the guy, but
>the guy was already dead by that time. I thought that his mother
>actually killed him.
>
Correct!
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Stephen Rafferty
*Los Angeles Celtic Supporters Club*
Julia Altshuler
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Clive Owen knew that the lord of the manor was his father. His father
had abandoned him to an orphanage. For that reason, he WANTED to kill
his father. The man was the worst sort of jerk who regularly
impregnated his employees, promised them that their children would be
adopted and then left the infants at an orphange for a life without
love, family, etc.
His mother, the headhousekeeper, sees her own picture as a young woman
on the table next to his bed. She realizes that he's her son and that
her son will want to murder his father. So she kills the asshole
first. It's the one act of motherly love she can show her son after all
those years. She prevents him from hanging for murder. She poisons the
father. Owen ends up stabbing a dead man. There's no punishment for
that even if the incompetant inspector figures it out.
The movie is being billed as a who-dunnit, but I believe the above plot
moves are irrelevant. There's a reason they're so hard to follow;
they're beside the point. The movie is much more about the
relationships between the classes.
--Lia
hamilton
Harkness) wrote:
no the valet's mother killed him with poison because she feared her son
would kill him and thus ruin his life -- the valet stabbed a corpse --
messy but not murder Since this occupied a huge expository scene at the
end of the movie, how could it be missed?
hamilton
<nos...@att.net> wrote:
did you actually watch the movie? the murder was quite clearly laid out
in the dialogue between Mary and the Helen Mirren character in their final
scene.
Grimfarrow
"John Harkness" <j...@attcanada.ca> wrote in message
news:3c3fbd22...@nntp.attcanada.ca...
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:39:14 -0800, Robert Chao <rc...@inreach.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Who exactly killed the guy, and why?
> >Thanks if you can enlighten me.
> >(I liked the movie even though I didn't get that.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> The valet played by the guy from croupier (Clive Owen) who was his
> illegitimate son by Helen Mirren.
>
> John Harkness
And you call yourself a critic.
Did you even bother to watch the film?
Grimfarrow
Sandy McDermin
I thought it was all pretty obvious at the end. Helen Mirren's character
poisoned Sir William. (I think it was his name.) For one thing, she
despised him for lying about where her son was going to end up. He
fathered both her child and her sister's (as well as many others who
worked at his factory it seems), and he lied to them all about what he
was doing with the children. He was basically just dumping them at an
orphanage, when he had told them he was finding good homes for them....
But, that's not what really set her off. When her son arrived at Gosford
Park, she somehow guessed -- don't know how -- his intentions against
Sir William, and she made a point of getting to Sir William first. She
killed him so her son wouldn't technically be able to. He certainly
stabbed his father, but she did the deed <ahem> in more ways than one.
Loved this film.
Sandy
Mike and Dorcie
As did I, but I know several people leaving the theater the same time as I that
thought that the ending was a bit ambiguous.
> Helen Mirren's character
> poisoned Sir William. (I think it was his name.) For one thing, she
> despised him for lying about where her son was going to end up. He
> fathered both her child and her sister's (as well as many others who
> worked at his factory it seems), and he lied to them all about what he
> was doing with the children. He was basically just dumping them at an
> orphanage, when he had told them he was finding good homes for them....
> But, that's not what really set her off. When her son arrived at Gosford
> Park, she somehow guessed -- don't know how --
She told us how. She's the perfect servant. She knows what people want before they
do.
> his intentions against
> Sir William, and she made a point of getting to Sir William first. She
> killed him so her son wouldn't technically be able to. He certainly
> stabbed his father, but she did the deed <ahem> in more ways than one.
>
> Loved this film.
>
Oh, so did I. Maggie Smith was a riot, and everyone else was wonderful.
Dorcie
Hank
> did you actually watch the movie?
I don't understand; why would I be discussing it if I haven't? Welcome to
r.a.m.c-f, where people discuss movies. HTH. HAND.
Hank
> I was going to mention in my last post that the writers and director
seemed to
> leave it up to the audience at the end. Besides the Hellen Mirren
character,
> the movie also seemed to point fingers at the head butler and the maid
that said
> she would do anything for him.
Agreed.
> However, Clive Owen did stab him, and it was
> established that he was already dead when he had been stabbed.
This I missed; I recall the scene near the end when Mary enters Robert's
room and confronts him about the photo of his mother; he says something to
the effect of "Yes, but I didn't stab him." Did I misunderstand?
hamilton
<nos...@att.net> wrote:
how is it then that you so completely misrepresent what happened in it?
Sandy McDermin
try sending it again.
S.
I thought it was all pretty obvious at the end. Helen Mirren's character
poisoned Sir William. (I think it was his name.) For one thing, she
despised him for lying about where her son was going to end up. He
fathered both her child and her sister's (as well as many others who
worked at his factory it seems), and he lied to them all about what he
was doing with the children. He was basically just dumping them at an
orphanage, when he had told them he was finding good homes for them....
But, that's not what really set her off. When her son arrived at Gosford
Park, she somehow guessed -- don't know how -- his intentions against
Sir William, and she made a point of getting to Sir William first. She
killed him so her son wouldn't technically be able to. He certainly
stabbed his father, but she did the deed <ahem> in more ways than one.
Loved this film.
Sandy
Barbara
I enjoyed the movie very much, but am confused on exactly how Mary
suspected the valet . As I recall, the housemaid had just said
something about "carpe diem -- seize the day" , and that seemed to
strike a chord with Mary, who ran to the valet's room to question him.
And I am not sure just how she figured out the housekeeper was the
valet's mother -- did she recognize her from the picture? And if so,
why didn't anyone else recognize her? The phony American valet, whose
name escapes me, shared his room and would have seen the picture too;
perhaps he was too shallow and self-centered to notice?
Thanks, and sorry if I simply missed something obvious.
Barbara
Mary H
> I enjoyed the movie very much, but am confused on exactly how Mary
> suspected the valet . As I recall, the housemaid had just said
> something about "carpe diem -- seize the day" , and that seemed to
> strike a chord with Mary, who ran to the valet's room to question him.
> And I am not sure just how she figured out the housekeeper was the
> valet's mother -- did she recognize her from the picture? And if so,
> why didn't anyone else recognize her? The phony American valet, whose
> name escapes me, shared his room and would have seen the picture too;
> perhaps he was too shallow and self-centered to notice?
>
> Thanks, and sorry if I simply missed something obvious.
>
> Barbara
Don't know about the carpe-diem revelation, but Mary found out that
Mrs. Wilson was Robert's mother by overhearing Lady Sylvia and the
Countess talking while she was packing. Lady Sylvia said that there
must be a Mr. Wilson, because Mrs. Wilson used to be "Parks, or
Parker, or Parkinson."
My question is--does anyone else but me think that Robert knew Mrs.
Wilson was his mother? I got the definite impression that he was
almost baiting her at times, especially in his room when he said he
doubted she ever overlooked anything. Plus the way he said, "She
died", that made me think he knew it was false.
I also loved this movie. If you see it again, watch for how Mrs.
Wilson is always hovering around Robert. She can't take her eyes off
him. Of course, neither could I, but not for motherly reasons. :-)
Dennis Hall
Gee---What a nice guy....
judystan...@gmail.com
Elsie was the last seen serving him in the Dining room and I think she and the wife had acted the scene out. Why was a maid serving in dining room?
Elsie also held a lot of clout within the family. The wife showed no concern for her husbands murder.
In the end scene she drove away with the American movie producer to London.