How did Curtis Hansen teach Eminem how to "act"?

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John Harkness

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Nov 8, 2002, 9:11:26 PM11/8/02
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On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:17:05 GMT, "K. Smith"
<kas...@uselessspamaccess1.net> wrote:

>I've heard many actors claim that, with regards to acting, "you either
>have it or you don't." When Eminem first stood in front of the cameras,
>Curtis Hansen said that he was beyond bad: too self-conscious, said his
>lines unnaturally, spastic movement, etc.
>
>But after six weeks of rehearsals, all of a sudden Eminem goes from
>'Glitter'-bad to 'Rocky'-great.
>
>I would love to know what Curtis Hansen did to teach Eminem how to
>"act". I find it fascinating that someone like Eminem can be a decent
>actor but an icon like Madonna can't do it to save her life. They both
>seem cut from the same cloth: working-class backgrounds, controversial
>button-pushers, ambitious, mercurial personalities, and all that.
>
Well, it helps, I suspect, that Eminem is in essence playing someone
like himself -- I doubt that Hansen could have got him to give a
passable Hamlet in six weeks. Perhaps he screened him a couple of
Madonna movies and asked "do you want to be compared to that?"

>Maybe it's the gift of language that makes some people actors and others
>just wannabes? Some feminist writer recently said that the reason
>Madonna can't act is because she has a tin ear for language. I would
>definitely agree with that. And from my own observations, I'd say she's
>also incapable of putting her ego in check and hasn't yet realized that
>the world truly doesn't revolve around her and her needs and therefore,
>she cannot completely let go of her ID to inhabit another character's
>being. She wants to be Madonna all the time.

Well, given the variety of personae -- Marshall Mathers, Slim Shady,
Eminem -- it's not entirely sure who Eminem wants to be.

John Harkness

Ovum

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Nov 8, 2002, 9:52:28 PM11/8/02
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K. Smith writes:

>And now that I think about it, Eminem's lyrics speak mostly of emotions
>and relationships, whereas Madonna sings mostly about things or shallow
>feelings of "lost love". Hmm.

And this is based on how many Madonna albums you've listened to all the way
through?

"Papa Don't Preach": teen pregnancy

"This Used to Be My Playground": the loss of her mother

"Oh Father": an abusive father

"Spanish Eyes": war

"Die Another Day": alter egos

The woman has sung Sondheim (a beautiful duet with Many Patimkin on the "Dick
Tracy" soundtrack), not to mention the songs from "Evita."

I don't agree with Madonna's expliciteness or constant advocation of sexual
rebellion, but the woman is, indeed, an artist. Unlike these pre-package,
focus-grouped marketing products like Aguillera and Spears, Madonna has the
talent to: (1) write hit songs (2) sing (3) dance (4) perform "image
management," and (5) direct her own career. Doing any one of those things well
takes rare talent.

Lois

------------------------------------------------

Step Two: "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us
to sanity."


kyle.

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Nov 8, 2002, 11:26:29 PM11/8/02
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>. I would definitely agree with that. And from my own observations, I'd say
she's
>also incapable of putting her ego in check and hasn't yet realized that the
world truly doesn't revolve around her and her needs and therefore, she cannot
completely let go >of her

Madonna is the biggest star in the world. Most people can't see the biggest
star in the world as anything but that. She's been an icon for 20 years, how
can we believe her as anything other than that?

>I gotta give him credit; love him or hate him, Eminem is a force to >reckon
with. And I'll bet Madonna is just seething with jealously over this punk kid,
who once again shows up the world and comes out >on top. I love it.

I like both of them very much. Eminem just said recently on Madonna. "She's the
only woman in this business I respect. She's been around 20 years and is still
releasing huge records and still has people everywhere talking about her.
That's the career I want."

I truly think their both in the same vein.
kyle.
Porn Star Quote Of The Week
"I looked at this guy and thought, 'If I just do him & not look at him and have
pleasure, then I can do anything."
-Ginger Lynn on Ron Jeremy

kyle.

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Nov 8, 2002, 11:28:21 PM11/8/02
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>Madonna has the
>talent to: (1) write hit songs (2) sing (3) dance (4) perform "image
>management," and (5) direct her own career. Doing any one of those things
>well >takes rare talent.

Agreed- & she does them all.

Like Eminem said, what other artist 20 years into their career is doing that?
Releasing #1 albums, songs & still breaking records with her albums, songs &
tours. What other artist 20 yearz into their career is still as relevant today
as they were when they started? Talked about daily in newspapers all the time.
Its crazy.

trotsky

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Nov 8, 2002, 11:42:25 PM11/8/02
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"kyle." wrote:
>
> >. I would definitely agree with that. And from my own observations, I'd say
> she's
> >also incapable of putting her ego in check and hasn't yet realized that the
> world truly doesn't revolve around her and her needs and therefore, she cannot
> completely let go >of her
>
> Madonna is the biggest star in the world. Most people can't see the biggest
> star in the world as anything but that. She's been an icon for 20 years, how
> can we believe her as anything other than that?
>
> >I gotta give him credit; love him or hate him, Eminem is a force to >reckon
> with. And I'll bet Madonna is just seething with jealously over this punk kid,
> who once again shows up the world and comes out >on top. I love it.
>
> I like both of them very much. Eminem just said recently on Madonna. "She's the
> only woman in this business I respect. She's been around 20 years and is still
> releasing huge records and still has people everywhere talking about her.
> That's the career I want."


Of course, if Eminem doesn't think her movies are absolute shit, then he
really is stupid.

trotsky

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Nov 8, 2002, 11:44:39 PM11/8/02
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"kyle." wrote:
>
> >Madonna has the
> >talent to: (1) write hit songs (2) sing (3) dance (4) perform "image
> >management," and (5) direct her own career. Doing any one of those things
> >well >takes rare talent.
>
> Agreed- & she does them all.
>
> Like Eminem said, what other artist 20 years into their career is doing that?
> Releasing #1 albums, songs & still breaking records with her albums, songs &
> tours. What other artist 20 yearz into their career is still as relevant today
> as they were when they started? Talked about daily in newspapers all the time.
> Its crazy.


Not really. Which are the really good Madonna songs worth mentioning?
Does Em think "You will be my lucky star" is a clever lyric? I doubt
it. He was just talking trash.

Mark Steese

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Nov 9, 2002, 12:44:08 AM11/9/02
to
Hwæt! We have heard of the glory of "K. Smith"
<kas...@uselessspamaccess1.net> that wrote news:kasmith-
C6BE74.201...@rcache1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net, on the day of 08 Nov
2002:

[snip]


> Maybe it's the gift of language that makes some people actors and
> others just wannabes? Some feminist writer recently said that the

> reason Madonna can't act is because she has a tin ear for language. I


> would definitely agree with that.

I don't. She can write decent songs; she wrote or co-wrote *all* of the
songs on the "Like A Prayer" album, none of which suggests a 'tin ear.'

> And from my own observations, I'd say she's also incapable of putting
> her ego in check and hasn't yet realized that the world truly doesn't
> revolve around her and her needs and therefore, she cannot completely

> let go of her ID to inhabit another character's being. She wants to be
> Madonna all the time.

She's hardly what I'd call a good actress, but she was fine in
Desperately Seeking Susan, and she did a better job than Beatty in Dick
Tracy. (Everything you said about Madonna in the above paragraph applies
much better to Beatty.) She's certainly no worse than a star like Tom
Cruise, whose principal talent lies in picking scripts. (Though he comes
a cropper on occasion - I'd love to know what made him think he could
convincingly portray a 19th-Century Irish emigrant.)

> On the other hand, Eminem, with his brilliant rhythmic lyricisms, has
> the ear for language. Granted, the role he plays in "8 Mile" isn't much
> of a stretch from his own personality, but still; even Madonna couldn't
> star in a movie about herself. She'd fuck it up somehow.

She *did* star in a movie about herself, Truth or Dare, which got good
reviews. She also got good reviews starring in Evita. Don't let your
dislike of her get in the way of the facts, though.



> And now that I think about it, Eminem's lyrics speak mostly of emotions
> and relationships, whereas Madonna sings mostly about things or shallow
> feelings of "lost love". Hmm.

If you're that ignorant of what Madonna sings about, you shouldn't be
judging her.



> I gotta give him credit; love him or hate him, Eminem is a force to
> reckon with. And I'll bet Madonna is just seething with jealously over
> this punk kid, who once again shows up the world and comes out on top.
> I love it.

Why would she be seething with jealousy? She got good reviews for her
first movie, too. Let's see how well Eminem's doing twenty years from
now.

-Mark
--
It was the saying of Bion, that though the boys throw stones at frogs in
sport, yet the frogs do not die in sport but in earnest. - Plutarch

Tom Cervo

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Nov 9, 2002, 1:03:01 AM11/9/02
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I didn't see anything by Hanson complaining about Eminem's lack of acting
talent (he calls him "Marshall", BTW). He only noted the fact that he wasn't a
trained actor and needed some help doing something he'd never done before.
Hanson's also quick to credit him for being a quick study.
Judy Garland said how terrified she was when she started to act in a movie,
until Mickey Rooney told her that it was the same thing as singing from the
heart. I don't know why anyone's surprised when a singer turns out to be able
to act as well.
Of course there's always Tony Bennett in "The Oscar" to prove the rule.

MeanMary

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Nov 9, 2002, 1:14:35 AM11/9/02
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K. Smith <kas...@uselessspamaccess1.net> wrote:
: I've heard many actors claim that, with regards to acting, "you either
: have it or you don't." When Eminem first stood in front of the cameras,
: Curtis Hansen said that he was beyond bad: too self-conscious, said his
: lines unnaturally, spastic movement, etc.

: But after six weeks of rehearsals, all of a sudden Eminem goes from
: 'Glitter'-bad to 'Rocky'-great.

Eminem plays many characters on his CDs. He probably just
had to get used to acting in a different context and once
he did he just "popped."

MeanMary
--
Copyright 2002 Mary Ballard // I do not speak for Appalachian State U.
// ball...@pm.appstate.edu - remove *s* and *a* from spam to email me.
--
If you had one shot, one opportunity, to seize everything you ever
wanted, in one moment, would you capture it? Or just let it slip?
Eminem

Mark Steese

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Nov 9, 2002, 1:54:35 AM11/9/02
to
Hwæt! We have heard of the glory of MeanMary <ball...@spam.appstate.edu>
that wrote news:aqi94c$p36$1...@lester.appstate.edu, on the day of 08 Nov
2002:

[snip]


>: But after six weeks of rehearsals, all of a sudden Eminem goes from
>: 'Glitter'-bad to 'Rocky'-great.
>
> Eminem plays many characters on his CDs. He probably just
> had to get used to acting in a different context and once
> he did he just "popped."

So you're saying he's basically an acting zit?

Mark Steese

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Nov 9, 2002, 1:53:07 AM11/9/02
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Hwæt! We have heard of the glory of Preston Crawford
<pres...@REMOVESPAMBLOCKcrawfordsolutions.com> that wrote
news:slrnasp9s0....@serpentor.cobrala, on the day of 08 Nov
2002:

> In article <Xns92C0DD1CA974m...@130.133.1.4>, Mark Steese


> wrote:
>>> let go of her ID to inhabit another character's being. She wants to
>>> be Madonna all the time.
>>
>> She's hardly what I'd call a good actress, but she was fine in
>> Desperately Seeking Susan, and she did a better job than Beatty in
>> Dick Tracy. (Everything you said about Madonna in the above paragraph
>> applies
>

> The previous poster has an excellent point.

The right size and style of hat will conceal that problem.

> Madonna's best acting job (IMHO) was in League of Their Own. A role in
> which she wasn't the center of attention.

How many stars in Hollywood *don't* always want to be the center of
attention? Madonna's hardly the only performer who can't "inhabit
another character's being" (i.e., play a part convincingly). 'Actors'
like John Travolta and Sylvester Stallone have made careers out of
playing a goofball and a lug, respectively (although Travolta, at least,
turned in a decent performance in Pulp Fiction, so he's not completely
hopeless.) Tom Cruise has made a career out of taking 'challenging'
roles and them playing them all in exactly the same way, i.e.,
restraining himself from grinning like an idiot and raising his voice to
show that he's being emotional. Warren Beatty hasn't turned in anything
remotely resembling a performance since "Shampoo."

All of them, though, have had more successful movie careers than Madonna,
which leads me to believe that there must be a better explanation for her
failure than egocentrism.

MeanMary

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Nov 9, 2002, 2:29:49 AM11/9/02
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Mark Steese <mst...@charter.net> wrote:
: So you're saying he's basically an acting zit?

No. I teach karate and when someone goes through a sudden
surge of development in sparring or forms, we say that
they "popped." I'm really not sure where it comes from,
perhaps from the popping sound of the gi when one learns
to throw a kick correctly.

MeanMary
--
Copyright 2002 Mary Ballard // I do not speak for Appalachian State U.
// ball...@pm.appstate.edu - remove *s* and *a* from spam to email me.
--

Not even on my radar, so won't you please jump off my fovl and
stay off, and follow me as I put these crayons to chaos from
seance to seance, as-a-aw-ch-a-aw. Eminem

trotsky

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Nov 9, 2002, 7:27:07 AM11/9/02
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Mark Steese wrote:
>
>
> How many stars in Hollywood *don't* always want to be the center of
> attention? Madonna's hardly the only performer who can't "inhabit
> another character's being" (i.e., play a part convincingly). 'Actors'
> like John Travolta and Sylvester Stallone have made careers out of
> playing a goofball and a lug, respectively (although Travolta, at least,
> turned in a decent performance in Pulp Fiction, so he's not completely
> hopeless.) Tom Cruise has made a career out of taking 'challenging'
> roles and them playing them all in exactly the same way, i.e.,
> restraining himself from grinning like an idiot and raising his voice to
> show that he's being emotional. Warren Beatty hasn't turned in anything
> remotely resembling a performance since "Shampoo."


Oh sure, "Heaven Can Wait" was just a hack job.

John Harkness

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Nov 9, 2002, 7:53:31 AM11/9/02
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Not to mention Reds. And he's very funny in Bulworth.

John Harkness

trotsky

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Nov 9, 2002, 10:19:11 AM11/9/02
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Agreed on all counts.

Drumm...@aol.com

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Nov 9, 2002, 11:12:00 AM11/9/02
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I think if you can get in front of an audience and sing, then you
possess a certain type of confidence that enables you to let go and
act. It's two sides of the same coin. Of course, the are other
personality factors that can detract from your acting ability. If you
have an ego and aren't willing to give to the other actors, you won't
look good.

kyle.

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Nov 9, 2002, 12:24:05 PM11/9/02
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>Of course, if Eminem doesn't think her movies are absolute shit, then he
>really is stupid.

I think he was talking more about her music career

kyle.

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Nov 9, 2002, 12:26:24 PM11/9/02
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>Not really. Which are the really good Madonna songs worth mentioning?
>Does Em think "You will be my lucky star" is a clever lyric? I doubt
>it. He was just talking trash.
>

I doubt it. Her current song Die Another Day is a bonafide smash. The 3 songs
off her last album were all huge too.

Sean O'Hara

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Nov 9, 2002, 2:23:54 PM11/9/02
to
Ovum wrote:
>
> K. Smith writes:
>
> >And now that I think about it, Eminem's lyrics speak mostly of emotions
> >and relationships, whereas Madonna sings mostly about things or shallow
> >feelings of "lost love". Hmm.
>
> And this is based on how many Madonna albums you've listened to all the way
> through?
>
> The woman has sung Sondheim (a beautiful duet with Many Patimkin on the "Dick
> Tracy" soundtrack), not to mention the songs from "Evita."
>
I don't know about you, but I don't count songs written by other
people as an adequate representation of a singer's artistic message.

Coincidentally, this means I classify Britney, Mariah, and Celine
as completely devoid of meaning.

--
Sean O'Hara
"Thanks to these sterling efforts, they’re bringing significantly
closer the day when the entire Middle East, much of Africa and even
Europe will be under the Saddamite nuclear umbrella and thus safe
from Bush’s aggression." -Mark Steyn

Mike Richey

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Nov 9, 2002, 2:32:56 PM11/9/02
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"Sean O'Hara" <darkerthenightth...@myrealbox.com> wrote
in message news:3DCD60CA...@myrealbox.com...

> Ovum wrote:
> >
> > K. Smith writes:
> >
> > >And now that I think about it, Eminem's lyrics speak mostly of
emotions
> > >and relationships, whereas Madonna sings mostly about things or
shallow
> > >feelings of "lost love". Hmm.
> >
> > And this is based on how many Madonna albums you've listened to
all the way
> > through?
> >
> > The woman has sung Sondheim (a beautiful duet with Many Patimkin
on the "Dick
> > Tracy" soundtrack), not to mention the songs from "Evita."
> >
> I don't know about you, but I don't count songs written by other
> people as an adequate representation of a singer's artistic message.
>
> Coincidentally, this means I classify Britney, Mariah, and Celine
> as completely devoid of meaning.
>

As is most classical music, right?

--
Mike Richey

"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky. A shark on beer is a beer
engineer."
-Dr. Worm


trotsky

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Nov 9, 2002, 2:47:22 PM11/9/02
to

"kyle." wrote:
>
> >Not really. Which are the really good Madonna songs worth mentioning?
> >Does Em think "You will be my lucky star" is a clever lyric? I doubt
> >it. He was just talking trash.
> >
>
> I doubt it. Her current song Die Another Day is a bonafide smash. The 3 songs
> off her last album were all huge too.


So you think Em measures quality by how well the record sells? Is he a
big Britney Spears fan, then?

Ovum

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Nov 9, 2002, 3:11:34 PM11/9/02
to
Actually, what would have been interesting is for Madonna to have played the
role of Eminem's mother in "8 MILE." Those two together on the screen would be
riveting!

Kim Basinger did an OK job. She's gorgeous, of course, but she had some weird
southern accent in the role. Did Curtis Hanson ask her to do that? If so, why
would somebody living in Michigan have a southern accent -- and never have it
explained?

John Harkness

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Nov 9, 2002, 4:34:12 PM11/9/02
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On 09 Nov 2002 20:11:34 GMT, ov...@aol.com (Ovum) wrote:

>Actually, what would have been interesting is for Madonna to have played the
>role of Eminem's mother in "8 MILE." Those two together on the screen would be
>riveting!
>
>Kim Basinger did an OK job. She's gorgeous, of course, but she had some weird
>southern accent in the role. Did Curtis Hanson ask her to do that? If so, why
>would somebody living in Michigan have a southern accent -- and never have it
>explained?
>
>Lois
>
>

Of course, Basinger is Southern -- she's from Georgia. And there's a
very large Southern component in Detroit's working class -- there was
a sizeable migration, black and white, from the South to work in
Detroit's auto plants that began in the 1940s and didn't really stop
until the 60s.

Anyway, it's America, people can live where they want, wherever they
were born.

John Harkness

Mark Steese

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Nov 9, 2002, 5:39:02 PM11/9/02
to
Hwæt! We have heard of the glory of j...@attcanada.ca (John Harkness) that
wrote news:3dcd052f...@nntp.attcanada.ca, on the day of 09 Nov
2002:

>>> Warren Beatty hasn't turned in anything remotely resembling a
>>> performance since "Shampoo."
>>
>>
>>Oh sure, "Heaven Can Wait" was just a hack job.

I didn't see this post when it first appeared, but I am surprised that
anyone would choose "Heaven Can Wait" as an example of Beatty's acting
skill, given that he doesn't even do as well as Robert Montgomery in the
original. When you can't outact Robert Montgomery, you're just not
trying.

> Not to mention Reds.

Please don't. The only thing that saved him from being the worst actor
in that movie was Diane Keaton's staggeringly off-key performance as
Louise Bryant. Even though the character of Eugene O'Neill was as badly
misconceived as Reed and Bryant, Nicholson still managed to outact Beatty
just because he knows how to invent a character.

> And he's very funny in Bulworth.

If you consider that funny, feel free. In my opinion, he was terrible;
there was no point at which he was believable as a politician or a
suicide, and if he was even trying to act like a man who hadn't slept for
several days he gave no evidence of it. It seems he would rather have
all the other characters constantly remind us of how exhausted Bulworth
is rather than try to play an exhausted man. Some critics bought it; I
say show, don't tell.

-Mark Steese

kyle.

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Nov 9, 2002, 5:39:00 PM11/9/02
to
>I don't know about you, but I don't count songs written by other
>people as an adequate representation of a singer's artistic message.
>

Madonna writes her own songs.

in TODD we trust

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Nov 10, 2002, 12:10:19 AM11/10/02
to
On 09 Nov 2002 22:39:00 GMT, ci...@aol.com (kyle.) wrote:

>>I don't know about you, but I don't count songs written by other
>>people as an adequate representation of a singer's artistic message.
>>
>
>Madonna writes her own songs.

She shouldn't.

Cheers,

Todd "But then quality isn't her priority" McNeeley
.
email: mcneeley at enteract dot com

Alan said...

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Nov 10, 2002, 7:52:08 AM11/10/02
to
>Of course, Basinger is Southern -- she's from Georgia. And there's a
>very large Southern component in Detroit's working class -- there was
>a sizeable migration, black and white, from the South to work in
>Detroit's auto plants that began in the 1940s and didn't really stop
>until the 60s.

Indeed. Being from Michagan and having worked in factories where the
complement consisted of far more than just a few Southern accenters, I always
refer to this state as "New Texas"

... said Alan S Emerson.


Tom Cervo

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Nov 10, 2002, 9:49:49 AM11/10/02
to
>Indeed. Being from Michagan and having worked in factories where the
>complement consisted of far more than just a few Southern accenters, I always
>refer to this state as "New Texas"

Being from Michigan myself, anyplace along I-75 south of Saginaw Bay has its
own "Little Missouri" or "Little Arkansas". (North of that line the hillbillies
are completely native.) There happens to be a classic American novel, "The
Dollmaker" about that very migration--the oldest son is an early version of
"Rabbit"--the dislocation never resolved itself in some families.

kyle.

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Nov 10, 2002, 7:56:28 PM11/10/02
to
>She shouldn't.
>
>Cheers,

Why? Youre in the minority. She's had more hits than everyone but Elvis, and
only has 3 more to beat him.

& she's the top selling female artist in the world, and behind only Elvis & The
Beatles. So apparently, she's doing something right.

dawn...@pacifier.com

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Nov 10, 2002, 8:01:51 PM11/10/02
to
In article <20021110195628...@mb-fb.aol.com>, ci...@aol.com says...

>
>>She shouldn't.
>>
>>Cheers,
>
>Why? Youre in the minority. She's had more hits than everyone but Elvis, and
>only has 3 more to beat him.
>
>&amp; she's the top selling female artist in the world, and behind only Elvis
>&amp; The

>Beatles. So apparently, she's doing something right.

Millions of people eat Hamburger Helper, too. Make of that what you will.

Dawn

Patra

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Nov 10, 2002, 9:44:44 PM11/10/02
to

<Drumm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1qcqsu4pvoj9tequk...@4ax.com...

> I think if you can get in front of an audience and sing, then you
> possess a certain type of confidence that enables you to let go and
> act.

Olivia Newton -John was horrible in all her movies. (Grease doesn't count).
Mariah Carey was awful.
Neil Diamond was awful.
Barbra Streisand. Blech! (Then again I can't stand her).

Whitney Houston was pretty good.
Dolly Parton was ok.

So, I guess it depends.


John Harkness

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Nov 10, 2002, 9:48:47 PM11/10/02
to
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:44:44 GMT, "Patra" <pat...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

>
><Drumm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1qcqsu4pvoj9tequk...@4ax.com...
>> I think if you can get in front of an audience and sing, then you
>> possess a certain type of confidence that enables you to let go and
>> act.
>
>Olivia Newton -John was horrible in all her movies. (Grease doesn't count).

Oh yes it does.

John Harkness

trotsky

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Nov 10, 2002, 10:05:52 PM11/10/02
to


Will Smith has managed to make a shitload of cash in front of a camera.

Mark Steese

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Nov 11, 2002, 2:32:33 AM11/11/02
to
Hwæt! We have heard of the glory of j...@attcanada.ca (John Harkness) that
wrote news:3dcf1a80...@nntp.attcanada.ca, on the day of 10 Nov
2002:

>>> I think if you can get in front of an audience and sing, then you
>>> possess a certain type of confidence that enables you to let go and
>>> act.
>>

>>Olivia Newton-John was horrible in all her movies. (Grease doesn't


>>count).
>
> Oh yes it does.

Yep, she was horrible in it.

Stockard Channing, on the other hand - she was *hot*.

Mark Steese

unread,
Nov 11, 2002, 2:44:41 AM11/11/02
to
Hwæt! We have heard of the glory of "Patra" <pat...@worldnet.att.net>
that wrote news:wQEz9.7209$hK4.6...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,

on the day of 10 Nov 2002:

>> I think if you can get in front of an audience and sing, then you


>> possess a certain type of confidence that enables you to let go and
>> act.
>
> Olivia Newton -John was horrible in all her movies. (Grease doesn't
> count). Mariah Carey was awful.
> Neil Diamond was awful.

Yeah, but I'll always cherish the memory of him in blackface.

> Barbra Streisand. Blech! (Then again I can't stand her).

She hasn't done anything tolerable lately, but she was surprisingly good
in "All Night Long," where she actually played a supporting role to Gene
Hackman's lead. Maybe that was actually the Earth-2 Barbra Streisand.



> Whitney Houston was pretty good.

In what? She was horrible in "The Bodyguard."

> Dolly Parton was ok.
>
> So, I guess it depends.

I think it's unfair of you to focus primarily on women and avoid
mentioning such cinematic triumphs as Sting's performance in "The Bride"
and Kris Kristofferson's in "Millennium." And of course, Vanilla Ice in
"Cool as Ice"!

(Now that "8 Mile" is the Number 1 movie in the land, how long will it
take for the video of Eminem's movie debut, "Da Hip Hop Witch," to be
reissued with his picture prominently displayed on the packaging?)

-Mark

Kenneth Crudup

unread,
Nov 11, 2002, 2:04:07 PM11/11/02
to
In article <3dcc6e1e...@nntp.attcanada.ca>,
j...@attcanada.ca (John Harkness) says:

>Well, given the variety of personae -- Marshall Mathers, Slim Shady,
>Eminem -- it's not entirely sure who Eminem wants to be.

?!

Listen to much hip-hop there, John?

-Kenny

--
Kenneth R. Crudup Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting, Los Angeles, CA
Home: 3801 E. Pacific Coast Hwy #9, Long Beach, CA 90804-2014 (562) 961-7300
Work: 2052 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA 92606-4905 (949) 252-1111 X240

John Harkness

unread,
Nov 11, 2002, 2:32:57 PM11/11/02
to
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:04:07 -0000, ke...@panix.com (Kenneth Crudup)
wrote:

>In article <3dcc6e1e...@nntp.attcanada.ca>,
>j...@attcanada.ca (John Harkness) says:
>
>>Well, given the variety of personae -- Marshall Mathers, Slim Shady,
>>Eminem -- it's not entirely sure who Eminem wants to be.
>
>?!
>
>Listen to much hip-hop there, John?
>
> -Kenny
>

Not much, but I'm familiar with Mr. Mathers oeuvre.

John Harkness

Cherub

unread,
Nov 11, 2002, 2:49:47 PM11/11/02
to
> kyle.
> Porn Star Quote Of The Week
> "I looked at this guy and thought, 'If I just do him & not look at him and have
> pleasure, then I can do anything."
> -Ginger Lynn on Ron Jeremy

Hey Kyle -
This "Porn Star Quote of the Week" line leads one (OK, me) to hope for
a new quote every week, and yet you're still posting last week's.

I'm disappointed.

:( Cherub

Kenneth Crudup

unread,
Nov 11, 2002, 3:29:59 PM11/11/02
to
In article <3dd005d2....@nntp.attcanada.ca>,
j...@attcanada.ca (John Harkness) says:

>Not much, but I'm familiar with Mr. Mathers oeuvre.

... then it seems you'd know that multiple stage names aren't multiple
personalities, as you'd implied.

John Harkness

unread,
Nov 11, 2002, 3:53:39 PM11/11/02
to
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:29:59 -0000, ke...@panix.com (Kenneth Crudup)
wrote:

>In article <3dd005d2....@nntp.attcanada.ca>,


>j...@attcanada.ca (John Harkness) says:
>
>>Not much, but I'm familiar with Mr. Mathers oeuvre.
>
>... then it seems you'd know that multiple stage names aren't multiple
>personalities, as you'd implied.
>
> -Kenny

I did no such thing. I was talking about multiple personae, which is a
different thing entirely.

John Harkness

Message has been deleted

Kenneth Crudup

unread,
Nov 12, 2002, 1:14:42 PM11/12/02
to
In article <3dd018b4....@nntp.attcanada.ca>,
John Harkness <j...@attcanada.ca> wrote:

>I was talking about multiple personae, which is a
>different thing entirely.

Nah, no it isn't. A rapper doesn't change his style even if he's "Jigga"
one minute, "Jay-Z" the next, and "Hova" the third. Having multiple stage
names is just part of the hip-hop "thang".

Cherub

unread,
Nov 12, 2002, 4:25:50 PM11/12/02
to
> Sorry. I'll change it :)

> kyle.
> Porn Star Quote Of The Week
> "I'm a big vodka girl... I woke up..parked in a street that I'd never seen
> before. It freaked me out because I didn't know..how I'd even got there.So I
> gave up driving rather than give up drinking."
> -- Susan Ward

:-O !! this sounds a heck of a lot like my boss's wife.

Shocked Cherub

Patra

unread,
Nov 12, 2002, 8:05:55 PM11/12/02
to

"Mark Steese" <mst...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns92C2F18ED8316...@130.133.1.4...

> > Whitney Houston was pretty good.
>
> In what? She was horrible in "The Bodyguard."
>
Oh, that movie. The title escapes me. The one with Angela Basset.

> I think it's unfair of you to focus primarily on women

David Bowie sucks. (Tries too hard). Blech!
Sting for the same reason. (I'm a singer trying so hard to be a thespian.
See me smolder...! Aren't I sexy?) Nope.


Patra

unread,
Nov 12, 2002, 8:07:34 PM11/12/02
to

"John Harkness" <j...@attcanada.ca> wrote in message
news:3dcf1a80...@nntp.attcanada.ca...

> >Olivia Newton -John was horrible in all her movies. (Grease doesn't
count).
>
> Oh yes it does.
>

Beginners luck. Like Madonna in "Desperately Seeking Susan" (but Arquette
did all the work).


John Harkness

unread,
Nov 12, 2002, 7:48:19 PM11/12/02
to
On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:07:34 GMT, "Patra" <pat...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

Sorry, you misread my post. I was arguing that she was horrible in
Grease, too.

John Harkness

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 3:17:03 AM11/13/02
to
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:14:42 -0000, ke...@panix.com (Kenneth Crudup)
wrote:

>In article <3dd018b4....@nntp.attcanada.ca>,


>John Harkness <j...@attcanada.ca> wrote:
>
>>I was talking about multiple personae, which is a
>>different thing entirely.
>
>Nah, no it isn't. A rapper doesn't change his style even if he's "Jigga"
>one minute, "Jay-Z" the next, and "Hova" the third. Having multiple stage
>names is just part of the hip-hop "thang".

So is "dissing" the proper elements of the English language, and that
isn't a good thing either.

Cheers,

Todd "I'd pay anything to meet a rapper named James
Richards, or something like that" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 3:26:10 AM11/13/02
to
On 09 Nov 2002 02:52:28 GMT, ov...@aol.com (Ovum) wrote:

>K. Smith writes:
>
>>And now that I think about it, Eminem's lyrics speak mostly of emotions
>>and relationships, whereas Madonna sings mostly about things or shallow
>>feelings of "lost love". Hmm.
>
>And this is based on how many Madonna albums you've listened to all the way
>through?
>
>"Papa Don't Preach": teen pregnancy
>
>"This Used to Be My Playground": the loss of her mother
>
>"Oh Father": an abusive father

These songs are hackneyed and amateurish. Which helps them because so
is Madonnas fan base.

>"Spanish Eyes": war

I wish this song had been engaging enough for me to remember it.

>"Die Another Day": alter egos

Few songs have elevated themselves to this high a level on the
annoying disco crap scale. Duran Duran had a better Bond track.

>The woman has sung Sondheim (a beautiful duet with Many Patimkin on the "Dick
>Tracy" soundtrack), not to mention the songs from "Evita."
>
>I don't agree with Madonna's expliciteness or constant advocation of sexual
>rebellion, but the woman is, indeed, an artist. Unlike these pre-package,
>focus-grouped marketing products like Aguillera and Spears, Madonna has the
>talent to: (1) write hit songs (2) sing (3) dance (4) perform "image
>management," and (5) direct her own career. Doing any one of those things well
>takes rare talent.

Madonna's skills in any of these areas is anywhere from mediocre to
slightly less than not so mediocre, and this has always been true. You
can rag on Aguillera and Spears (and rightfully so) for being packaged
corporate puppets, but the only difference between them and Madonna is
that Madonna actually managed the focus groups herself. I suppose that
gives her more credibility, but if she's an artist, then so is the
Vice President of Marketing at any media company.

Cheers,

Todd "And sexual rebellion is her only good quality, frankly" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 3:29:18 AM11/13/02
to
On 09 Nov 2002 04:28:21 GMT, ci...@aol.com (kyle.) wrote:

>>Madonna has the
>>talent to: (1) write hit songs (2) sing (3) dance (4) perform "image
>>management," and (5) direct her own career. Doing any one of those things
>>well >takes rare talent.
>

>Agreed- & she does them all.
>
>Like Eminem said, what other artist 20 years into their career is doing that?
>Releasing #1 albums, songs & still breaking records with her albums, songs &
>tours. What other artist 20 yearz into their career is still as relevant today
>as they were when they started? Talked about daily in newspapers all the time.
>Its crazy.

Do you confuse "relevant" with "popular among teenz"?

Cheerz,

Todd "'I don't think it meanz what you think it meanz" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 3:31:43 AM11/13/02
to
On 09 Nov 2002 17:26:24 GMT, ci...@aol.com (kyle.) wrote:

>>Not really. Which are the really good Madonna songs worth mentioning?
>>Does Em think "You will be my lucky star" is a clever lyric? I doubt
>>it. He was just talking trash.
>>
>
>I doubt it. Her current song Die Another Day is a bonafide smash.

I agree. It makes me want to smash things.

>The 3 songs off her last album were all huge too.

Fortunately, they were still small enough to download over a dial-up
modem connection.

Cheers,

Todd "And I thought her India fetish was annoying" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 3:36:32 AM11/13/02
to
On 12 Nov 2002 06:39:50 GMT, ci...@aol.com (kyle.) wrote:

>>Hey Kyle -
>>This "Porn Star Quote of the Week" line leads one (OK, me) to hope for
>>a new quote every week, and yet you're still posting last week's.
>>
>>I'm disappointed.
>>
>

>Sorry. I'll change it :)

>kyle.
>Porn Star Quote Of The Week

>"I'm a big vodka girl... I woke up..parked in a street that I'd never seen
>before. It freaked me out because I didn't know..how I'd even got there.So I
>gave up driving rather than give up drinking."
>-- Susan Ward

Okay dude... I'm giving you a lot of heat because you seem to confuse
quantity and quality when it comes to music, and because you seem to
harbor some serious anger toward your high school English teacher.

But if you'll actually change the porn star quote regularly, I'll try
to cut you some slack.

Cheers,

Todd "Try, that is. I'm a loose cannon,
so I can't promise anything" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 3:37:47 AM11/13/02
to
On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 14:23:54 -0500, Sean O'Hara
<darkerthenightth...@myrealbox.com> wrote:

>Ovum wrote:
>>
>> K. Smith writes:
>>
>> >And now that I think about it, Eminem's lyrics speak mostly of emotions
>> >and relationships, whereas Madonna sings mostly about things or shallow
>> >feelings of "lost love". Hmm.
>>
>> And this is based on how many Madonna albums you've listened to all the way
>> through?
>>

>> The woman has sung Sondheim (a beautiful duet with Many Patimkin on the "Dick
>> Tracy" soundtrack), not to mention the songs from "Evita."
>>

>I don't know about you, but I don't count songs written by other
>people as an adequate representation of a singer's artistic message.
>
>Coincidentally, this means I classify Britney, Mariah, and Celine
>as completely devoid of meaning.

Toss Whitney Houston on that heap.

Cheers,

Todd "then the sailors realized the sirens were sea cows" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 3:44:37 AM11/13/02
to
On 11 Nov 2002 00:56:28 GMT, ci...@aol.com (kyle.) wrote:

>>She shouldn't.
>>
>>Cheers,
>
>Why? Youre in the minority. She's had more hits than everyone but Elvis, and
>only has 3 more to beat him.
>
>& she's the top selling female artist in the world, and behind only Elvis & The
>Beatles. So apparently, she's doing something right.

If selling records is the only yardstick you measure by. The Chicago
Bears had a big hit record in the 80s. Are they a good band?

First, there is only one Elvis, and when you refer to him, you should
use his full name so people don't think you mean that Presley fellow
that did all that crooning in the 60's.

Second, the Beatles were a fluke. Talent doesn't usually sell as well
as mediocrity does, but in this case, an exception was made.

She shouldn't because she isn't very good at it. The fact the
Philistine masses buy this crap doesn't change the fact that she isn't
very good at it.

Cheers,

Todd "I'm just here to do the Superbowl Shuffle" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 3:46:31 AM11/13/02
to

Obviously that Betty Crocker is doing something right...

Cheers,

Todd "She's kicking Little Debbie's fat ass" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 4:17:29 AM11/13/02
to
On 09 Nov 2002 04:26:29 GMT, ci...@aol.com (kyle.) wrote:

>I like both of them very much. Eminem just said recently on Madonna. "She's the
>only woman in this business I respect. She's been around 20 years and is still
>releasing huge records and still has people everywhere talking about her.
>That's the career I want."

I'm sure he was, as usual, talking out his ass, but if he meant it
then he's a jackass.

This business is loaded to the gills with extremely talented female
artists in all genres (except country; because no good music comes
from that genre). So is he saying that he's such a pathetic little
punk that he can't give proper respect (I think the kids are calling
that "props" for reasons that make Webster's corpse shudder) to women
from Lena Horne and Koko Taylor all the way to Fiona Apple and PJ
Harvey?

What possible beef can he have with Suzanne Vega, L7, Kate Bush, Joan
Jett, The Lunachicks, Tori Amos, Poe, The Plasmatics, eXene Cervenka,
Kim Deal, Belly, Annie DiFranco, Daisy Chainsaw, Janis Joplin,
Concrete Blonde, The B-52s, Sheryl Crow, Portishead, The Breeders,
Veruca Salt, Natalie Merchant, Sleater-Kinney, K's Choice, Garbage,
Hole, Enya, The Cranberries, The Sundays, Melissa Etheridge, 4 Non
Blondes, Indigo Girls, Bonnie Riat, Lush, Bjork, The Go Gos,
Bongwater, The Bangles, Cyndi Lauper, Debbie Harry, The Waitresses,
7 Year Bitch, Letters to Cleo, Juliana Hatfield, Elastica, Lisa Loeb,
Paula Cole, Luscious Jackson, Lydia Lunch, Siouxie and the Banshees,
Patti Smith, Sonic Youth, Throwing Muses, and Nico of The Velvet
Underground.

And I'm not even stepping outside the safe confines of my favorite
genres.

If Slim Shady actually said "the only woman" then his ass should be
resoundingly kicked. You'd think that an acne scarred white trash punk
from Detroit, who caught a break, might be just a tad more grateful.

Cheers,

Todd "I can't believe I listed The Waitresses :-) " McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 4:23:03 AM11/13/02
to
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:44:44 GMT, "Patra" <pat...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

>


><Drumm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1qcqsu4pvoj9tequk...@4ax.com...
>> I think if you can get in front of an audience and sing, then you
>> possess a certain type of confidence that enables you to let go and
>> act.
>
>Olivia Newton -John was horrible in all her movies.
>(Grease doesn't count).

Yes it does...

Grease must be the worst movies in the "Universally Loved" category.

Besides, she sucked on all her records too.

>Mariah Carey was awful.

It goes without saying.

>Neil Diamond was awful.

Well, duh...

>Barbra Streisand. Blech! (Then again I can't stand her).

I can't either, but actually I like some of her earlier films.

>Whitney Houston was pretty good.

Well directed.

>Dolly Parton was ok.

Surprisingly good actually. I mean, it isn't like she sank her teeth
into challenging parts or anything, but given that she and her
directors must have had a clear understanding of her limitations, she
was quite effective on screen.

Cheers,

Todd "I can't believe I saw 9 to 5 in the theater" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 4:26:48 AM11/13/02
to

Not only that, but despite ID4 and Bad Boys, he's very good. It was
obvious that he is a gifted actor just from Six Degrees of Separation.

Cheers,

Todd "The son of Dom DeLuise" McNeeley

in TODD we trust

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 4:32:45 AM11/13/02
to
On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:05:55 GMT, "Patra" <pat...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

>
>"Mark Steese" <mst...@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:Xns92C2F18ED8316...@130.133.1.4...
>> > Whitney Houston was pretty good.
>>
>> In what? She was horrible in "The Bodyguard."

She wasn't that bad.

>Oh, that movie. The title escapes me. The one with Angela Basset.

I don't know what Basset is in with Houston, but I want to see Angela
Basset in My Bed.

No, that's no a movie. I mean MY BED... Damn, she's fine...

>> I think it's unfair of you to focus primarily on women
>
>David Bowie sucks. (Tries too hard). Blech!

Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence?
The Hunger?
The Linguini.. (ahem... hold on...)
The Hunger?

Okay... Bowie freaking rocks. Bowie rocks six ways to Sunday.

Cheers,

Todd "Though I never liked The Man Who Fell To Earth" McNeeley

trotsky

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 7:44:27 AM11/13/02
to

in TODD we trust wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:44:44 GMT, "Patra" <pat...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>><Drumm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:1qcqsu4pvoj9tequk...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>I think if you can get in front of an audience and sing, then you
>>>possess a certain type of confidence that enables you to let go and
>>>act.
>>
>>Olivia Newton -John was horrible in all her movies.
>>(Grease doesn't count).
>
>
> Yes it does...
>
> Grease must be the worst movies in the "Universally Loved" category.


How many movies is it?

Ruth

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 10:08:22 AM11/13/02
to
In article <3dd218a7$0$1458$272e...@news.execpc.com>,

I don't think you mentioned Chrissie Hynde up there, townie....you'll
have to do better than that.

Ruth, who is listening to Nico and The Velvet Underground even as we
speak!
--


"I hate spunk."- Lou Grant

kyle.

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 11:07:07 AM11/13/02
to
>ut the only difference between them and Madonna is >that Madonna actually
>managed the focus groups herself.

Well & Madonna writes all of her own stuff, producers her own stuff, does her
own videos, tours, etc.

Tom Zielinski

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 6:08:19 PM11/13/02
to

"in TODD we trust" <nu...@myserver.com> wrote in message
news:3dd218a7$0$1458$272e...@news.execpc.com...

> On 09 Nov 2002 04:26:29 GMT, ci...@aol.com (kyle.) wrote:
>
> What possible beef can he have with Suzanne Vega, L7, Kate Bush, Joan
> Jett, The Lunachicks, Tori Amos, Poe, The Plasmatics, eXene Cervenka,
> Kim Deal, Belly, Annie DiFranco, Daisy Chainsaw, Janis Joplin,
> Concrete Blonde, The B-52s, Sheryl Crow, Portishead, The Breeders,
> Veruca Salt, Natalie Merchant, Sleater-Kinney, K's Choice, Garbage,
> Hole, Enya, The Cranberries, The Sundays, Melissa Etheridge, 4 Non
> Blondes, Indigo Girls, Bonnie Riat, Lush, Bjork, The Go Gos,
> Bongwater, The Bangles, Cyndi Lauper, Debbie Harry, The Waitresses,
> 7 Year Bitch, Letters to Cleo, Juliana Hatfield, Elastica, Lisa Loeb,
> Paula Cole, Luscious Jackson, Lydia Lunch, Siouxie and the Banshees,
> Patti Smith, Sonic Youth, Throwing Muses, and Nico of The Velvet
> Underground.


What, no mention of the Corrs?


Tom Zielinski (I'll resist the temptation to insert "Those sisters are hot")


Patra

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 7:02:20 PM11/13/02
to
>
> What possible beef can he have with Suzanne Vega, L7, Kate Bush, Joan
> Jett, The Lunachicks, Tori Amos, Poe, The Plasmatics, eXene Cervenka,
> Kim Deal, Belly, Annie DiFranco, Daisy Chainsaw, Janis Joplin,
> Concrete Blonde, The B-52s, Sheryl Crow, Portishead, The Breeders,
> Veruca Salt, Natalie Merchant, Sleater-Kinney, K's Choice, Garbage,
> Hole, Enya, The Cranberries, The Sundays, Melissa Etheridge, 4 Non
> Blondes, Indigo Girls, Bonnie Riat, Lush, Bjork, The Go Gos,
> Bongwater, The Bangles, Cyndi Lauper, Debbie Harry, The Waitresses,
> 7 Year Bitch, Letters to Cleo, Juliana Hatfield, Elastica, Lisa Loeb,
> Paula Cole, Luscious Jackson, Lydia Lunch, Siouxie and the Banshees,
> Patti Smith, Sonic Youth, Throwing Muses, and Nico of The Velvet
> Underground.
>
Can't stand Tori Amos. A Kate Bush wanna be even if she does deny it to the
hilt.
And Veruca Salt. Eck!