PITCH BLACK: AN IMPORTANT QUESTION!!!
WWS
Norman Wilner wrote:
>
> Reagen Sulewski <rsul...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:0QJr4.9493$_e7.3...@news1.sshe1.sk.home.com...
> > jg...@netcom.ca (John H) wrote in <38af600b....@nntp.netcom.ca>:
> >
> >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:24:57 -0500, "Rufus Sewell"
> >> <mou...@rodier.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Warning: SEVERE spoilers
> >>>
> >>> Loved the movie. However , there is one scene that left me guessing
> >>> as to what really happened. Right near the end , where the female
> >>> lead goes to save Riddick's ass , I am left wondering as to how she
> >>> really dies. Did Riddick stab her with his blade ( still clearly seen
> in
> >>> his hand ) so the creatures would smell her blood ( as previously
> >>> implied in the movie ) and use her as bait while he runs. Or , did a
> >>> creature simply sneak up behind her and snatch her away? I think
> >>> that this scene is left pretty much to what to audience wants to
> >>> believe. The looks on both the actor's faces tends to point to the
> >>> theory that Riddick stabbed her. Their is a look of betrayal on her
> >>> face and the shot of them looking at each other is held for so long
> >>> that I believe the implication is that he stabbed her and used her
> >>> as bait.
> >>>
> >>> Comments?
> > >
> >> One of the creatures comes up and grabs her, carrying her off
> >> into the night sky.
> >
> > But before that, I got the distinct impression that Riddick had
> > stabbed her to draw the creatures off his trail.
>
> I don't think he did -- he seems genuinely upset by her death, and even
> says something along the lines of "you weren't supposed to die for me" as
> he runs back to the escape ship. And considering how physically close he
> was to Fry, stabbing her to draw the creatures away would make no sense --
> they'd be just as likely to get him in their feeding frenzy.
>
> No, I'm pretty sure Fry is gored by one of the creatures just before it
> sweeps her away, but the swift cutting makes it almost impossible to see
> clearly.
That was exactly my impression. When they were talking about using
a body as "bait", they mentioned needing to use a rope to drag it
about 50 feet behind them. To set bait right next to yourself would
be useless, as the creatures seem to go into a feeding frenzy and
strike out at anything within reach, including each other. In other
words, stabbing Fry would have put Riddick much more at risk than he
already was, and he was far too smart to do something that dumb, and
to stand there motionless while he waited for something to happen.
The long pause, imho, was just a cinematic indulgence to build up
the "which one was it?" suspense angle.
--
__________________________________________________WWS_____________
Carol Ann Hagan
: You are all forgetting Riddick saying, "Not for me," after she died
: in response to her earlier saying that she would die for the the
: cleric and the girl. Her eyes bugged out because she got shanked by
: one of the creatures and then it took her away. Blood drew the
: creatures to people but they seemed to go on movement as well, so she
: didn't have to be bleeding to be caught.
No, I remember him saying that. I didn't think he killed her to use her
as bait. I thought he lured her out there just to kill her. When he
said "not for me," I thought he meant something like, "You shouldn't die
for me, because I'm bad and I'm proving it by killing you." It seems
like he was faking how wounded he was. She was trying to carry him
back. If he was hurt so badly, how did he get back to the ship by
himself so easily and hop in the driver's seat? He seemed fine after
that. He didn't need her to save him.
Brandons with candy
(Carol Ann Hagan) wrote:
> TetsuwanATOM (mor...@netscape.net) wrote:
>
> : You are all forgetting Riddick saying, "Not for me," after she died
> : in response to her earlier saying that she would die for the the
> : cleric and the girl. Her eyes bugged out because she got shanked by
> : one of the creatures and then it took her away. Blood drew the
> : creatures to people but they seemed to go on movement as well, so she
> : didn't have to be bleeding to be caught.
>
> No, I remember him saying that. I didn't think he killed her to use her
> as bait. I thought he lured her out there just to kill her.
That makes no sense. Reddick wasn't in any shape to be luring anyone.
>
When he
> said "not for me," I thought he meant something like, "You shouldn't die
> for me, because I'm bad and I'm proving it by killing you."
Which doesn't explain his comment at the end about Reddick being dead.
Her death changed him.
> It seems
> like he was faking how wounded he was. She was trying to carry him
> back. If he was hurt so badly, how did he get back to the ship by
> himself so easily and hop in the driver's seat? He seemed fine after
> that. He didn't need her to save him.
Emotional strength. He would have died, should have died. The others
were safe, they could have gotten clean away, just as Reddick was
planning to do to them. Yet Carolyn came back, even for someone like
him, which resulted in her death. This goaded him on to survive.
--
-Brandon Blatcher
I just don't sit here all day casting
shadows for your amusement. I'm also a
sidewalk hot dog vendor.
WWS
In fact, it did more than that. As has been noted, the end of the
movie was all about Redemption. Fry searching for her own, to make
up for her willingness to sacrifice the passengers, and the death
of all her fellow crewmates. Riddick was so damaged that he couldn't
be redeemed unless someone selflessly gave their own life to save his.
He never expected it, couldn't believe it, didn't want it. That's
why he said Riddick died on the planet - there was no way he could
go on as the same person he was, knowing that someone he respected
had given their life to save his when they didn't have to.
And that's why there's no doubt that the *alien* killed Fry, not
Riddick. The ending of the movie is totally meaningless with any
other interpretation. Fry's death not only saved his life, it
saved his soul.
--
__________________________________________________WWS_____________
John Miles
>
> I don't think he did -- he seems genuinely upset by her death, and even
> says something along the lines of "you weren't supposed to die for me" as
> he runs back to the escape ship.
That was a big problem I had with Pitch Black. The dialogue recording
was exceptionally uneven. There seemed to be TONS of key lines where a
character would utter something half under his or her breath that ended
up uintelligible. Annoying!
-- jm
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx
Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam
------------------------------------------------------
Paul Hager
SPOILERS***********************
+++++++++++++++++
cha...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Carol Ann Hagan) writes:
>I am really glad you brought this up, because after the movie ended I
>said to my friend something like, "I can't believe he killed her..that
>was cold." And he said, "What? She just got snatched by an alien." So,
>I was totally sure about it, and I grabbed someone and said, "Did he stab
>the woman or was she just carried away?" and the guy said, "The creature
>just came and got her."
>Now, I feel like I distinctly remember seeing the knife, him thrusting it
>into her, and her bugging her eyes out like, "Shit! You stabbed me," and
>then seeing blood pouring to the ground, and then a creature grabbing
>her. So, I am pretty sure he stabbed her, but I guess it wasn't clear if
>the 2 people I talked to thought he didn't and you are asking. I think
>it is a better movie if he stabbed her.
The scene is played deliberately ambiguous. There is no knife visible,
but there are a couple of quick cuts of blood dripping into a pool of
water. I think the ambiguity is resolved into a creature killing her.
As the Fry looks at Riddick, her expression becomes one of satisfied
resignation. What is more interesting to me is after she is carried
off, Riddick, lying on the ground, says, "Not for me..." or words to
that effect. The reference is to Fry's earlier statement that she was
willing to die to save the others. Riddick wasn't accepting the idea
of her sacrifice. It should be remembered that when Fry and Riddick
have their confrontation that results in both returning for the other
two survivors, Riddick's reaction to Fry's statement is one word:
"Interesting". As much as anything else, I think that Riddick was
more curious as to how things would play out than affected by a sense that
saving the other two was the right thing to do. Since he did save
the girl earlier, saving her again may have been a factor, though it
almost certainly wasn't the only one.
--
paul hager hag...@cs.indiana.edu
"I would give the Devil benefit of law for my own safety's sake."
--from A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS by Robert Bolt
Norman Wilner
news:38B09B...@pop.removethistomailme.net...
> Norman Wilner wrote:
>>
>> I don't think he did -- he seems genuinely upset by her
>> death, and even says something along the lines of "you
>> weren't supposed to die for me" as he runs back to the
>> escape ship.
>
> That was a big problem I had with Pitch Black. The dialogue
> recording was exceptionally uneven. There seemed to be
> TONS of key lines where a character would utter something
> half under his or her breath that ended up uintelligible. Annoying!
Complain to your theater manager; the auditorium's sound system may be out
of whack. There were no audio problems at my screening.
Norm Wilner
Starweek Magazine
Shannon T.
>
> Norman Wilner wrote:
> >
> > >>> Warning: SEVERE spoilers
> > >>>
> > >>> Loved the movie. However , there is one scene that left me guessing
> > >>> as to what really happened. Right near the end , where the female
> > >>> lead goes to save Riddick's ass , I am left wondering as to how she
> > >>> really dies. Did Riddick stab her with his blade ( still clearly seen
> > in
> > >>> his hand ) so the creatures would smell her blood ( as previously
> > >>> implied in the movie ) and use her as bait while he runs. Or , did a
> > >>> creature simply sneak up behind her and snatch her away? I think
> > >>> that this scene is left pretty much to what to audience wants to
> > >>> believe. The looks on both the actor's faces tends to point to the
> > >>> theory that Riddick stabbed her. Their is a look of betrayal on her
> > >>> face and the shot of them looking at each other is held for so long
> > >>> that I believe the implication is that he stabbed her and used her
> > >>> as bait.
> > >>>
> > >>> Comments?
> > > >
> > >> One of the creatures comes up and grabs her, carrying her off
> > >> into the night sky.
> > >
> > > But before that, I got the distinct impression that Riddick had
> > > stabbed her to draw the creatures off his trail.
> >
> > I don't think he did -- he seems genuinely upset by her death, and even
> > says something along the lines of "you weren't supposed to die for me" as
> > he runs back to the escape ship. And considering how physically close he
> > was to Fry, stabbing her to draw the creatures away would make no sense --
> > they'd be just as likely to get him in their feeding frenzy.
> >
> > No, I'm pretty sure Fry is gored by one of the creatures just before it
> > sweeps her away, but the swift cutting makes it almost impossible to see
> > clearly.
>
> That was exactly my impression. When they were talking about using
> a body as "bait", they mentioned needing to use a rope to drag it
> about 50 feet behind them. To set bait right next to yourself would
> be useless, as the creatures seem to go into a feeding frenzy and
> strike out at anything within reach, including each other. In other
> words, stabbing Fry would have put Riddick much more at risk than he
> already was, and he was far too smart to do something that dumb, and
> to stand there motionless while he waited for something to happen.
>
> The long pause, imho, was just a cinematic indulgence to build up
> the "which one was it?" suspense angle.
>
>
Also, the fact that Fry was killed by one of the creatures, thus
unwittingly sacrificing herself for Riddick, leads directly to the
"Riddick is dead on the planet" conversation in the last scene. If
Riddick had stabbed Fry to save himself, then he (his murderous "not a
member of the human race" self) would not be metaphorically dead on the
planet, but would be piloting the spacecraft. And the fates of the girl
and the Muslim would have been more worrisome.
--
Shannon T. http://www.arcana.com/shannon/index.html
--------------------------------------------------------------
DO NOT REPLY TO sturl...@netscape.net. That address is only
used for posting and does not accept email. To reply by email,
use shannon <at> arcana.com
Scytale
WWS <wsch...@tyler.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> In fact, it did more than that. As has been noted, the end of the
> movie was all about Redemption. Fry searching for her own, to make
> up for her willingness to sacrifice the passengers, and the death
> of all her fellow crewmates. Riddick was so damaged that he couldn't
> be redeemed unless someone selflessly gave their own life to save his.
> He never expected it, couldn't believe it, didn't want it. That's
> why he said Riddick died on the planet - there was no way he could
> go on as the same person he was, knowing that someone he respected
> had given their life to save his when they didn't have to.
>
> And that's why there's no doubt that the *alien* killed Fry, not
> Riddick. The ending of the movie is totally meaningless with any
> other interpretation. Fry's death not only saved his life, it
> saved his soul.
I really hope Riddick stabbed her. Why? Because that's more
believable. People can change, but you don't go from being the sort of
horrible, emotionless killer that was Riddick to a saintly type over
the course of a few days. It's just too 'Hollywood' of an ending for
me.
I was impressed that Riddick did not die. In most typical movies when
you have a person do a 'very bad thing', they have to die rather than
leave the viewer wondering how they will integrate into society and
deal with their crimes. Look to Deep Blue Sea for an example.
Scytale
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bill Binkelman
Well said! And I agree with your take on it, except I don't think it was
that ambiguoous. I, for one, blieve a creature killed her. You will
remember that more than once in the film they used a claw or whatever to
stab their intended victims from behind. So, this is very feasible. She
was propping Riddick up, the creature sneaks up behind - STAB! I also
thought it was a very effective scene with the melodrama actually
down-played. The vision of the creature taking her up into the dark
night air, quickly disappearing from sight, is very chilling, IMO. I
also like how Riddick barely whispers the line "Not for me." No wild-man
histrionics or screams! All in all, Riddick is more complex than I ever
thought he would be.
--
Bill Binkelman
Wind & Wire
New Instrumental Music Reviews
http://www2.bitstream.net/~billb/wandw_home.htm
Andrew Valko
"Paul Hager" <hag...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:88q4bu$5om$1...@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu...
> "I would give the Devil benefit of law for my own safety's sake."
> --from A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS by Robert Bolt
>
Maybe I was just caught up in the moment, but from what I saw, Riddick
didn't seem to be totally conscious of himself at the time-- like he was in
some sort of frenzy. He looked pretty delerious to me, I thought he'd
stabbed her on accident (for some reason I remember seeing RED blood on the
knife) and then they were both looking at each other, and Riddick realized
what had happened.
THEN the creature ripped her away.
I dunno . . . that just the impression I got.
By the way, maybe we should develop some sort of name for these things?
Calling them 'the creatures' is getting annoying :)
TetsuwanATOM
<shadow_of...@yahoo.com> tumbled from the tabletop in a drunken
stupor and screamed:
>In article <38B0404F...@tyler.net>,
> WWS <wsch...@tyler.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> In fact, it did more than that. As has been noted, the end of the
>> movie was all about Redemption. Fry searching for her own, to make
>> up for her willingness to sacrifice the passengers, and the death
>> of all her fellow crewmates. Riddick was so damaged that he couldn't
>> be redeemed unless someone selflessly gave their own life to save his.
>> He never expected it, couldn't believe it, didn't want it. That's
>> why he said Riddick died on the planet - there was no way he could
>> go on as the same person he was, knowing that someone he respected
>> had given their life to save his when they didn't have to.
>>
>> And that's why there's no doubt that the *alien* killed Fry, not
>> Riddick. The ending of the movie is totally meaningless with any
>> other interpretation. Fry's death not only saved his life, it
>> saved his soul.
>
>I really hope Riddick stabbed her. Why? Because that's more
>believable. People can change, but you don't go from being the sort of
>horrible, emotionless killer that was Riddick to a saintly type over
>the course of a few days. It's just too 'Hollywood' of an ending for
>me.
What was saintly about Riddick? How do we know how long his
transformation had been taking place? Perhaps we were only
wittnessing his "rock bottom" moment.
>
>I was impressed that Riddick did not die. In most typical movies when
>you have a person do a 'very bad thing', they have to die rather than
>leave the viewer wondering how they will integrate into society and
>deal with their crimes. Look to Deep Blue Sea for an example.
>
"We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made of us."
Jean-Paul Sartre
We also offer you these fine products:
Tetsuwan-Atom Celebrity Wallpapers
Chow Yun Fake Celbrity fakes
The Occasional Ripper MP3s
Shannon T.
>
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:38:00 GMT, Scytale
> <shadow_of...@yahoo.com> tumbled from the tabletop in a drunken
> stupor and screamed:
>
> >In article <38B0404F...@tyler.net>,
> > WWS <wsch...@tyler.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In fact, it did more than that. As has been noted, the end of the
> >> movie was all about Redemption. Fry searching for her own, to make
> >> up for her willingness to sacrifice the passengers, and the death
> >> of all her fellow crewmates. Riddick was so damaged that he couldn't
> >> be redeemed unless someone selflessly gave their own life to save his.
> >> He never expected it, couldn't believe it, didn't want it. That's
> >> why he said Riddick died on the planet - there was no way he could
> >> go on as the same person he was, knowing that someone he respected
> >> had given their life to save his when they didn't have to.
> >>
> >> And that's why there's no doubt that the *alien* killed Fry, not
> >> Riddick. The ending of the movie is totally meaningless with any
> >> other interpretation. Fry's death not only saved his life, it
> >> saved his soul.
Very well put.
> >
> >I really hope Riddick stabbed her. Why? Because that's more
> >believable. People can change, but you don't go from being the sort of
> >horrible, emotionless killer that was Riddick to a saintly type over
> >the course of a few days. It's just too 'Hollywood' of an ending for
> >me.
> What was saintly about Riddick? How do we know how long his
> transformation had been taking place? Perhaps we were only
> wittnessing his "rock bottom" moment.
>
> >
He wasn't becoming saintly at all. He was becoming human. At the
beginning of the movie, he had described himself as primitive, which
left the impression that he thought of himself as an animal, sub-human.
Fry's sacrifice enabled him to rejoin the human race, not rise above it.
He did nothing heroic, just refrained from killing anyone else.
XJohn Deth
but who knows the circumstances? Besides, I think Riddick makes a good
anti-hero ala Snake Plissken
Agustin
> By the way, maybe we should develop some sort of name for these things?
> Calling them 'the creatures' is getting annoying :)
I vote we call them Grab-boids...........nevermind.
Karran
Spoilers ....
Alien spoiled the whole space alien genre for a generation of movie
going fans. The alien is truly unknown, vicious and mindless, incapable
of being understood. Unpredictable, undefinable, etc.... In short, you
could not categorize it or "humanize" it in any form. However, there was
a life progression of sorts for the alien
being, from egg to parasite to its final, terrifying form. The baby
alien, in fact, was the most terrifying
creature and I still get shivers from thinking about the hospital/lab
scene in Aliens as the little girl and
Ripley try and escape the baby aliens, which are desperately seeking a
host.
Now, in the year 2000, comes "Pitch Black". The alien is a flying
dinosaur of sorts, craves human flesh and is vicious. It lives in
darkness and waits for the long period of darkness as the planets align
and block out all
sunlight. It appears to be cannibalistic and this is probably the only
source of food as all other life forms on the planet seem to have
vanished completely, devoured by the rapacious creatures. This is my
deduction based on the huge skeletons of beasts which once inhabited the
desert like planet. The planet must have had some sort of plant life,
however, to sustain the huge beasts, assuming that some of them depended
on plants to survive. If so, how did the plants survive the darkness ?
Assuming that the oceans on the planet died out and so did the trees on
the planet, making it a desert, how is oxygen still present in the
atmosphere in sufficient quantities to permit the human travellers to
breathe unaided ? Seems like there's a sequel here.. Possibly, the other
side of the planet is green and has enough trees or other life which
maintains the atmosphere. Or, possibly an oxygen generator ( planet
capacity ) left by unknown, intelligent aliens who abandoned the planet
once these creatures came into being ? Do the alien "birds" hibernate
during the long
period of daylight ? Do they breed during this period of daylight and
once darkness falls, come out in vast numbers, fly around, start
devouring each other till the period of daylight approaches. The
survivors then
go into hibernation / breeding and become the victims of the next
generation. Who knows ? I guess it would be interesting in a sequel if
they explored some of these questions..
The Thinker
He didn't want her to die while trying to save him. Like maybe he
didn't think his life was worth it.
Seems to me that the guy actually had some heart after all. Or maybe a
bunch of psyche problems, he did have a screwed up childhood.
Scytale
"Shannon T." <sturl...@netscape.net> wrote:
> He wasn't becoming saintly at all. He was becoming human. At the
> beginning of the movie, he had described himself as primitive, which
> left the impression that he thought of himself as an animal, sub-
human.
> Fry's sacrifice enabled him to rejoin the human race, not rise above
it.
> He did nothing heroic, just refrained from killing anyone else.
Actually, a friend of mine said something that gave me some more
insight. He reminded me that the only characterization we have of
Riddick is from Johns. Since we find out later that he's not the most
reliable of sources, maybe the real account of Riddick is different.
Scytale
Claude Martins
You do get glimpses into Riddick's character right from the
beginning. His voice-over tells us that he sees himself
as atavistic and primitive, almost primeval.
Besides, before Fry confronts Riddick at the escape craft,
he is perfectly willing to leave all three of them behind.
It is only through Fry's sacrifice that Riddick learns to be
human.
- Claude.
--
--
Claude Martins / Timberwolf / ICQ: 5304950 / York U, Toronto, ON, CA
mar...@cs.yorku.ca / The Wolf Lair http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~martins/
NOTE : I do NOT use RemarQ's Usenet services due to their ad policy.
Kevin Skinner
>What riddick screams is : "Not for me! Not for me!!!"
When did he scream this? At the end when she helps him up?
Albert Loui
:>
:>What riddick screams is : "Not for me! Not for me!!!"
: When did he scream this? At the end when she helps him up?
More or less. Frye hears Riddick yell in pain, and runs over to
help him. As she is helping him back towards the skiff, stumbling, she
says something about not letting anyone die then, before he could respond,
she stiffens as an alien rips through her and then pulls her away into the
dark. That's when Riddick screams the above line. Too bad she had to
die, though - she was cute. :-)
